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Direction of the game. Is it going Cryptic North? Or Is it going South?
xcaligax
Posts: 1,096 Arc User
HA! Get it? I made a pun in the title! See it?...No..? well I do..
Anyway Yeah, So where we going with the future of the game? Ever since on Alert update, the game has been focused solely on Alert system. There has not been a new mission released in other areas of the game since before then. These lands have gone barren and are now obsolete. Infact, mostly it's just veteran players on alts that SOMETIMES venture into these mission loaded areas that once offered decent gear as you leveled up, but now there is no incentive, or rather, not a very strong one in the least. I am almost certain, even without data backing it up, that the game has under a 5,000 player population. ACTIVE players, meaning they log in for more than atleast a week's time total on the account. The game is doing nothing to attract new players, and despite the updates of the upcoming rampage revamps, and new gear, it still does not fill the void of what can be called a "successful" MMO. Part of this problem is the marketing. I've never heard of Massively as being one of the top broadened MMO news firms to the general public. If the game needs new players, and generate even MORE revenue, it needs to be advertised too much more widely known gaming firms, such as IGN or GAMESPOT. The point is, the game needs a CONCISE direction in where it's heading for it's development. There hasn't been story progression as far as Lore goes in a long LONG LONG time. Mechanon, Doctor Destroyer, Terror INC, CrimeLords, etc etc. We haven't had a Q&A in a long time. I think we are well overdue for one.
Anyway Yeah, So where we going with the future of the game? Ever since on Alert update, the game has been focused solely on Alert system. There has not been a new mission released in other areas of the game since before then. These lands have gone barren and are now obsolete. Infact, mostly it's just veteran players on alts that SOMETIMES venture into these mission loaded areas that once offered decent gear as you leveled up, but now there is no incentive, or rather, not a very strong one in the least. I am almost certain, even without data backing it up, that the game has under a 5,000 player population. ACTIVE players, meaning they log in for more than atleast a week's time total on the account. The game is doing nothing to attract new players, and despite the updates of the upcoming rampage revamps, and new gear, it still does not fill the void of what can be called a "successful" MMO. Part of this problem is the marketing. I've never heard of Massively as being one of the top broadened MMO news firms to the general public. If the game needs new players, and generate even MORE revenue, it needs to be advertised too much more widely known gaming firms, such as IGN or GAMESPOT. The point is, the game needs a CONCISE direction in where it's heading for it's development. There hasn't been story progression as far as Lore goes in a long LONG LONG time. Mechanon, Doctor Destroyer, Terror INC, CrimeLords, etc etc. We haven't had a Q&A in a long time. I think we are well overdue for one.
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1.) Spend money on subscriptions/Zen. I'm pretty sure all of us who are willing to do this, are doing it, or have done it. Let's set this aside.
2.) Offer feedback/suggestions to the developers. Yeah, there is no shortage of this. Pretty sure we have this part covered.
3.) Help market the game. Now, this is interesting. Let's think about this a little bit.
What if we made a concerted, grass roots effort to try to spread the word about the positive aspects of CO. This doesn't cost you any money, it doesn't necessarily cost you a lot of time. I'm curious if say, 20 fans, made small efforts on a regular basis to help market the game, what kind of impact over the course of a year it would have.
How would I suggest going about doing this? Create a single, ongoing "Operation Fanbase" forum thread to help organize the effort. Any time there is a good opportunity to help create positive buzz about CO, someone posts about it with a link to the article/review/whatever-- for example, the recent article in Massively. All of the volunteers from "Operation Fanbase" then vote-up the article, or post comments about what they like about the game. The video Sterga made about Gravitar is another good example. Like it up, share it around, whatever..anything we can do to help bring in new eyeballs to CO.
Unfortunately, it's probably impossible for us to measure the impact of such efforts. It's too bad there's not still the Refer-A-Friend program. But even if the impact is not measurable, it's got to be at least somewhat positive.
Thoughts?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Didn't we already have someone else make this thread this week? ...like twice? You're not gonna badger them into giving you more info. Just play the game and let the professionals do their jobs in peace.
As for "spreading the word of the game" ...you could be doing that already, why need forum thread for do?
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Because there is "spreading the word" and there is "spreading the word about spreading the word". An organized effort is going to be more effective.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Well, get started then. Impress everybody with your initiative.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yes sheep, just shut up and never try to change things.. just obey ....
Fix'd that for ya.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The expectation of a new zone complete with new missions, a new adventure pack or a new comic series? Let's face it; that ship has already sailed. Bite-sized alerts seem to be the most that they can work with currently.
At this point in time with this game, the sooner you adjust your expectations with this game to a realistic level (until they make some huge announcement to prove otherwise), the better you'll be for it.
This is where I'm at.
My next door neighbor is a developer over at Turbine (DDO, LotRO), and unless there is a big budget and significant IP behind the game, you just aren't going to get massive updates anymore. That's the reality.
We aren't really going North or South. More like Cryptic vaguely northwest-ish.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It always amazes me how starving people, once given a steady supply of food, will quickly go from "happy to have some food" to "this tastes like garbage, get me something better!"
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I can't agree more with this.
I also very much agree that it would be nice if they included CO more when NW and STO gets talked about.
At least CO was included in the Arc promo.
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And it wouldn't necc take much- just smart placement in a key place for a limited amount of time. Certainly would be worth advertising Cryptic North's recent hard work.
But then the larger question- is there enough there to actually retain new customers?
From my limited experience, I'd say no, but I'm growing cynical. Part of that is having an inviting community, though; we'd all have to turn down our 'jaded meter' a couple notches.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Agreed, I have seen most of the changes or lack of over the course of the time I've been here, and we all see plenty that's wrong with it. People will always complain and also add their two cents in how to make it better, but if we actually want more people to join in the fun we DO get out of this game, then we need to understand that spouting about how much this and that sucks (especially in places like Zone in game) needs to slow down a tad. New players (and the vets too) should go into a game not expecting everyone to be all hand in hand an that the game is perfect, but answering what we may consider newbie or dumb questions with sarcasm and outright horrible suggestions isn't gonna encourage players to stick around either.
Obviously this isn't going to change over night, but we can try to foster a better environment for newer players to come into, and then hope that Cryptic can pull together (with or without player help) some kind of advertising system, cause let's face it, any kind of ads are better than nothing.
On a semi related but random tangent I offered among friends the silly idea of promoting Club Caprice to adult sites... aka "Come ERP the character you wanna be" which while is wildly not the ideal way to advertise, would be something entirely out of the box :P
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
and as per jenny, sadly its true, but it also feels like giving up. i know the mmo world has changed to the new free to play model, but coming from swg, coh and even eq2, and seeing real substantial updates, "accepting" that co is just not going to get better feels like giving up.
A lot of us joined and bought lifetimes because we had faith this game would grow and evolve like coh did, to see it wither on the vine just sucks. This is the free to play world..and its garbage.
you are correct there is nothing to keep people here, i could go over a list about HOW cryptic royally screwed the game up. but i am not because old timer beta players like me just start like a broken record.
the ONLY reason that cryptic north was even created was so they could shut us up and so they can do more with star trek and never winter.
and about our jaded meter we have every right to be jaded, we kept losing developers as time went on only to have this game fall into disrepair and rot in the corner.
if and only IF we got the foundry when they announced it for star trek and they placed it in this game when we had people, this game would most likely be doing ALOT better right now.
but alas....
The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
This game is rated 'T' for Tawdry.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
LOL like I said it's obviously not what we'd really want to see for a T rated game, but was an idea overall. We DO need attention, but the right kind to the game :P
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
I always enjoy watching people say "We haven't gotten anything, we've only gotten" and then list off a whole bunch of stuff that we have gotten which is a fairly good list even without all the stuff they left out.
I could understand all the complaints if we hadn't gotten anything this very month... but we did... and the month before, and the month before, and the month before that, and the month before that. That sounds steady to me. Most MMOs, even the big ones, don't get stuff every month.
Demand more and more and more, and next thing you know our tiny staff is overstretching themselves and the quality level falls and falls and falls. Scope and perspective are important here.
We're on the upswing. To claim otherwise, you would either have to have only very recently started playing this game, or just be outright ignoring its past.
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oh, I'm not saying some of that cynicism isn't justified- to a good extent it seems to be (though imo, not to Crytptic North, given just how small and recent they are)... just that we'd have to put on a friendlier face to newcomers regardless if we want to help keep them around.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
I disagree.
Complaints are feedback. Any company that only wants positive feedback? Should be buried and its owners and management never trusted with anything more sophisticated than a boiled egg.
The complaints can be a very effective tool used by the company. These are tools for the company to target their weak points and keep their market satisfied. if nothing else, it allows them to address concerns of their player base.
I'm sorry, but as a customer I don't make purchases out of pity for corporations. I make purchases based on what I need and what I want. Don't get me wrong- CO has made some pretty decent things recently, but all I'm seeing in the near future is Lockboxes, so I might be saving my money.
Sort of like the multitude of bugs and issues that are reported constantly, and yet never gets addressed (And when it does, it's the same list and they act like it's a brand new thing they've never seen)- like the anime pistols bug, that I've probably said something about repeatedly? Like the various costume ideas pushed into the suggestions thread that doesn't have any developer responses in it? I'm sorry, if you're only wanting positive feedback and you aren't addressing your customers- you might as well be giving them middle finger while you've got your hand out for their wallet.
I am more concerned about my friends not investing their money into something that isn't going anywhere than I am the actual improvements to CO. I have brought a couple of people over, but in the last few years? Most of them go Silver and decide it's not worth the subscription.
please list the entirety of what we have gotten each month. we have gotten very very little, relative to the other 2 superhero mmos we have gotten the least content by a large margin. again, list it all out, lets see what the steady stream of content has been. yes we have gotten more than when the game was outright ignored for anything but lockboxes and recolors of the same few vehicles, but getting a D when you were getting an f is still not an achievement, its just not exactly failing as badly as you used to.
Well, after something that happened to me a few week ago, I must state that it appears Cryptic better take care of that egg, because it seems they only do want positive feedback. I'm half-expecting a Bioware-like crackdown once a certain community rep sees this thread because of it.
Maybe if we're lucky they'll be a Champions 2 with tech that will allow for things like a foundry, vehicles that follow the slope of the ground, editable sidekicks or minions, etc.
I'll keep showing screenshots to my friends and tell them about my cool guild, but they'll refuse to play because "it's pay-to-win" (hear this often) or they have an Asian heritage and don't like Hi-pan (true story). I'll just watch as people get bored with the game and move on.
Just enjoy the game for what it is. I find when I try to play armchair game developer, I enjoy it less. Mostly because I can't do anything beyond what I mentioned previously.
It's a good game and a stable MMO. It's going to be around for a few years, and there's going to be a lot more content.
Last I heard it wasn't an engine issue but asset tagging that's keeping the foundry out and that all three games are kept relatively synced up engine-wise. I'd imagine the ground mounts require some terrain data that CO doesn't have baked in its maps.
i would relish the meal, with actual relish. pessimists don't like being right.
Now you're getting into opinion territory. What's a little to one person is plenty for another. You said D, I say B; in the end it's meaningless because it has nothing to do with the the updates being steady or not.
The fact is, we have been getting content steadily.
And yes, compared to whatever two other mmos you picked to compare the game to, we might not be getting as much. However, if you get rid of the bias and compare the game to MMOs at large, Champions Online is currently getting updates at a rate that many other MMOs wish for... there's MMOs out there still waiting for their Cryptic North. We got ours, so to pretend that things aren't better is just short-sighted, going back and forward.
Pessimists aren't realists though. Pessimists are people who can't handle having their feelings hurt so they assume the worst. Realists recognize an upswing when they see it. Many pessimists want to claim to be realists, despite their inability to recognize when things are actually getting better.
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Really? Maybe there is hope then!
and no, "realists" are just optimists or pessimists that have decided their opinion is fact. history of this game has shown that we havent gotten a new zone for years,we haven't gotten new story missions since the comic series stopped. we haven't gotten a full set since earth and the last 2 power releases. that is the facts, Now yes, we got a few costume sets, i have supported that both on the forums and financially, but looking at the situation, those are the facts we are going from, and they point to a very modest reason for real hope.
To be fair, there has been improvement in this last year, but it is because it was pretty bad before.
At this point, I am not sure if it is a good thing to advertise this game since once a player gets disappointed to the actual state of the game, there is a significant chance that it will never come back even if the game has significant improvements.
As for the direction, I rather Cryptic keeping its actual focus than devs start rambling around again that would means less content released at the end of the day.
That's the thing they haven't done their job, if they had we would be getting real content like sto enjoys. There would be more devs on this team, Champions would have gotten the foundry. Champions would not be in this sorry state.
CoH is dead.
every game dies, not all of them truly live.
Haha, points for William Wallace.
CO is the premiere Marvel MMO with 2 companies backing out, an IP switch, and a push forward. IMO, "Spiritual Successor" gets tossed around to too many superhero games which may or may not ever see the light of day...and yet this one did. I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm not saying Cryptic is even that good at the task but I am saying your views overlook things in what appears to be an attempt to just be bleak for bleak sake.
Now the list of things Cryptic added since On Alert is very small. The whole "quick, NW is in the crapper. All hands to the rescue!" bit didn't help at all either. BUT something has to be going right here because, out of the blue, they bought another company out to mostly focus on CO.
Before this there were missions added like the "Queen City" line as well as a few random kinda story pointless ones added to Canada like "Viper Cache." I'm not mentioning this as a "it's enough" thing in the least but moreso as a "stuff actually did happen."
Then "Team Lordgar" brought us the majority of last year's mini-MEGA-events. Odds are we're likely soon to see the 1st(and incomplete and buggy) one of these return soon with The Lemurian Invasion since that was kind of the point to making the things in the 1st place. We do know that the Lemurian Invasion Alert is part of the Rampage Review's lineup...but I don't know if any additions/repairs were made to it aside from the Typhoon Vehicle will be rarer now.
Ok, so then Cryptic North hits the scene with Fatal Error which, IMO, was the best of the mini-MEGA-events. It was mostly solid with some minor nitpicks(drop rates are kinda horrible and I feel Cybermind could go on a diet in the tune of 1 million HP to make the fight run smoother overall). Then they fixed bugs. Now it's pretty commonplace for MMOs to have devs who fix bug but at this stage some people(not gonna speak for everyone) were so starved to see something happen that it was a breath of fresh air. Now sure not every bug has been repaired and I certainly hope this isn't the end on that subject but some stuff got fixed.
Then the playerbase complained on the forums there was nothing to buy and they wanted some costume sets so a decent, IMO, amount of them hit the Z-Store while Socrates and Sharkfin hit lockboxes. Some people complained about Sharkfin/Socrates because of their costs ingame and so then game Dino which was the beginning of a trend for 1 item costume set unlocks which I know I prefer.
Ok, so then they made AURAS. The big 2013 do or die trying promised feature. Now I'm not even remotely going to pretend that I see this change as anything more than the removal of some effects from toons I didn't care for with the free option to replace them and maybe use some of my vast Questionite reserves to get some more. I do not care for the delivery model but it has been suggested that this decision came from a "higher place." So I have no intention of buying these things no matter how many they churn out but that's my opinion and my right. For other people they seem to like these things so more power to them. Point is, it was a pretty big something.
Then they...converted the Finkle Factory Mission....into....an alert? Really? Ok, I don't get this one at all but they did answer some of the forum requests by not only adding a few new unlocks here and there but the return of 2 of the weapon geos which had been previously axed due to On Alert and it's seeming need to remove a chunk of stuff from the game because of...yeah, no good reason there. So while the Winter Event wasn't alot to write home about it was something being done pretty close to when auras hit. Also...wow it' didn't suck a fraction as much as the NW Winter Event. Wow, that was horrible.
So now it's February, a time that's usually part of the "Cryptic Vacation Communications Blackout which may or may not have something to do with another freaking Cryptic MMO we're being abandoned in favor of", and something is happening already. While I question the idea of adding stronger gear to a game you're balance passing at the same time(oh yeah, they balanced some powers and added some new ones too) people seem to want it so it could be a positive. They've also tied Drifter Salvage into the equation so the prices of boxes of that stuff in on the rise ingame which is I suppose a decent enough thing. Most of all it comes with a new alert that Cryptic started over a year ago and couldn't make playable. Yeah, this thing was on PTS a year ago. It was a bloody nightmare. Fast forward to now...it's about to hit live and I can't point out any huge "ball of suck" attached to it except maybe some minor droprate numbers. Also, Fire and Ice, Gravitar, Sky Command, and Lemurian Invasion are gonna have some new unlocks that you can check out on PTS right now. For me, new unlocks are almost never a bad idea(unless the drop rate is absolute horror).
So...stuff happened. I just glazed over "New" Telepathy, Laser Swords, Rimefire, and such but love em or hate em...they're new powers.
TL DR: Stuff Actually Happened. If it's enough stuff is up to the individual and their gaming experience.
P.S. There's been mention of places covering CO. How about if Cryptic North has some "secret ace" up their sleeve they try and hand it off to the Smosh TV people. Then it would at least be funny, entertaining, and seen by more people. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
They bought Cryptic for Star Trek and Neverwinter. Champions just came along for the ride.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
You wanna help them make the game better? You can do two things: either 1 get some skill at content development and try to get a job there or get in contact with them and offer your services for free, or 2 get on PTS and help them playtest.
At the end of the day, sitting there at your computer typing about how you think they're doing a bad job while you're stuffing doritos in your face and not doing anything worthwhile with your time just stinks of entitlement issues.
But hey, knock yourself out, cause this thread doesn't hurt anything.... well unless a potential new player comes to the forums to see if the game is worth playing and sees this thread and decides not to try the game because of it, but we'll never know about that will we? lol
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
As others have already pointed out, this is feedback. It may not be all gumdrops and Uni-Kitties but its feedback. If you feel this sort of feedback is pointless then your point is duly noted. Just keep in mind that while you're sitting there making sweeping generalizations of the habits of people who make threads like this, resorting to damn near nothing but strawman arguments as responses to everyone's concerns and getting preachy trying to convince them they're the ones wasting their time, you're being even less helpful than they are.
A lot of the feedback really is useless though. How does saying "We haven't gotten anything new for a while" and "you should advertise more" and "these other games have more stuff than we do and are more successful" count as useful feedback? These are examples plucked right from this very thread, and they've appeared numerous times in threads just like it (and threads where they didn't really even belong) so no strawman here.
Hell, look at the OP, my best reference for claiming there is no useful feedback in this thread. It was never meant as a feedback thread to begin with, it was just another "Hey devs, give us more info... even though you already explained why you won't do that" thread.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Luckily you're not the actual gauge that measures how useful feedback is or isn't. As you've said before, leave that to the professionals.
Summary - IMHO, recent & upcoming additions to CO make me feel things are headed North.
Positive Thing 1: Cryptic North fixed many issues they inherited.
The original Cryptic team left in a hurry. I recall they implemented the Reloaded/Alert system, then rushed over to Neverwinter. The old XP Alert (the 2 minute Smash one) wasn't a great experience because it didn't seem designed for low-level characters. There were those bugged events, like the Mega-D Invasion, that disappeared with no follow-up.
Cryptic North got handed this backlog of stuff, none of which was their fault...and they actually fixed it. They adjusted the Alerts (XP was now a Grab, which was more low-level friendly), etc. They debugged the Mega-D Invasion and brought back the Finkle Factory as an Alert. Now that they got all that stuff out of the way, it lead to...
Positive Thing 2: Cryptic North is adding new content.
Whether fixing old stuff was a prerequisite or a learning experience for the team, we're getting new content.
Neither Auras or Costume Sets are new concepts, but there's actual excitement for them. Just a few days ago a helpful player came into the Powerhouse Theatre to showcase the new Auras and people were happy to see it, unlike with Lockboxes. I personally never heard anyone say, "Oh, you totally need to buy Cosmic Keys because this new Lockbox is awesome." I am hearing a lot of people say, "You totally need to buy the Victorian Costume Set because it's awesome." And it looks like there's Rampage stuff on the way.
Positive Thing 3: The Arc player might bring in new players.
Don't flame me just yet. I'm not endorsing the Arc thing, just seeing one benefit of it.
Ultimately, customer churn is always a thing; old customers leave, new customers may come in. Every player gets bored or burnt out by a game. The Arc player may drive players from other PWE titles to CO. That's how I got into STO for a bit, because I could use my CO account, and I see that sort of rotation is what they're trying to create.
Negative Thing 1: Fire & Ice is taking forever.
I remember hearing about the Design A Villain contest, so long ago that I assumed it was abandoned like the Comic Series.
I feel that no matter how good it is, there's no way it can match the expectations from such a long development cycle. Thankfully it's not the only new thing. What I do appreciate is that Cryptic North is committed to finishing projects. That culture is great for the long-term. IMHO, not a very negative thing.
Negative Thing 2: CO's inevitably getting older.
New content or not, CO's aging. Newer MMOs have set higher expectations. It's a constant race.
IIRC Cryptic said its games have a 5-year life (sorry I can't remember the exact source). The solution is not new Alerts, but hopefully a CO2. It's not Cryptic North's fault, it's just something every game must face.
Negative Thing 3: Why is it always and only Massively?
I'm with Caliga. I never even heard of Massively until I started playing CO. Is there some exclusivity agreement with this website?
I understand it's hard to get major gaming news sites to talk about a 3 year-old game, so it may not be deliberate, but there must be more than just 1 site Cryptic North can talk to. If not gaming sites, how about comic book-related sites? I actually discovered CO through the Axe Cop webcomic. Relying on Massively just strikes me as odd, like they're just doing it to tell PWE's management they've done an interview.
---
These are the reasons why I think things are headed North. The positive things are progressively building on each success, while the negative things are minor or factors that affect all games.
More action at Champions Online Comics @ http://co-comics.webs.com
I can agree with this, this is a real issue that needs to be adressed
In this situation I bet most of the doomsayers would love to be in the position where they would have to eat their words.
Yes, there is indeed a exclusivity contract with Massively, that was explained in a random thread a while ago. Apparently CO has to wait for the Massively article to post before they can post on their own website.
As to advertising for this game. If PWE/Cryptic isn't even going to bother advertising it at Cons they go to, why would I?
All of my issues about this game is with Cryptic, not Cryptic North, they are the low man on the totem pole. Its the executives that have abandoned us and care little for our opinions.