Opinions on Arc and its incentives?

agentnx5 · January 2014

TrailTurtle wrote: »

Also, at the risk of a tangent -- what do people think of the Arc incentive? Are the titles a good draw? We thought they'd be popular, but I'd like to hear your opinions.

Taking this tangent to a new topic to not derail the one it came from... Here's my feeling about Arc and that incentive:

I've been asking for King & Queen titles for ages... As in since day 1. My main character actually had a full title long before ever playing this game, it's "Queen Alyssa Q'Uzixola of Xzianthia". I'd be very very pleased if I could have the Queen title, one of those little things on my wish list.

I do like the Sir, Lady, and Doctor titles however.

I do like that you are making Hats & Heads and Redeemed Villain accessible for free to people. That's awesome! I hope to see some more creatively designed heroes running around as a direct result of that.

(PS: Is it available to people who just created an account or is the Tutorial costume editor still gimped to a few prefabricated options?)

As for feedback on Arc itself...

I am unsure about installing another game client distribution platform other than Steam. The might not play nicely together, to the point the company not in the lead might even try to sabotage or corrupt files of the larger competitor. It wouldn't be the first time by far I've seen it happen in the software industry in my life. So yeah, I'm suspicious of Arc. It took me a long time to get to where I would trust Steam too, and EA's "Origin" software has cemented my idea that not all game companies can make delivery platforms that work well.

Oh yeah and it always requires extra system resources to run stuff like that, even if it's in the background. Streamlined software is more important to me than bells & whistles. So Arc comes with a social networking medium built in. So what? That is different from Steam how? Different from using a lightweight (and clearer sounding) chat program like Mumble, Ventrilo, or even Skype; how? The incentives of the software do not interest me.

Finally I have a sneaking suspicion that Arc will soon be forced on us. Why do I feel it will? Because there was a time we weren't forced to make PWE account to play Champions Online, and were told specifically by TrailTurtle's predecessor that we wouldn't be forced to do so. I had a sneaking suspicion then too that I'd have to create a PWE account because we'd be forced to change over. The incentive with some rewards to encourage people to change over to the PWE site, kind of like how Arc is throwing us a bone to join up now. And then? They got rid of the old forums and character view features and forced us to use the current website. Is that bad necessarily? No, but it does show a trend, a trend to expect it have itself repeated.

If I must use a game client I prefer to use Steam. Am I going to be punished for not using Arc in an indirect manner? (i.e. bugged patches, delayed patches, access outages that are ignored because of the "It's not my fault, go talk to the other company" run-around response that you often get with Customer Service issues?

A good example of that run-around was with all the lag created by Cryptic's ISP incorrectly and inefficiently routing game data stream traffic, atlas.cogentco.com How many times did we (on the STO and Support forums in particular) repeatedly show them it was Cogent that was the issue and yet got the "Are you sure your computer is connected to the internet? *derp* Are you sure you don't have a virus? *derp* Maybe your internet connection isn't good enough? *derp* Maybe you installed some other software that I can blame it on so I don't have to give you customer service for my company having issues? *derp*

Speaking of which (although this is somewhat of a tangent that's possibly going off topic), it really REALLY irritates me when Customer Service reps try to pass the blame off instead of dealing with the issue, especially because this would NOT be tolerated at my job. If I treated customers the way how I've witnessed or heard about how Perfect World / Cryptic has treated customer issues, in my experience with them? Yeah it wouldn't fly, might even get fired and probably should. So let's recap what good customer service conflict resolution looks like in a nutshell, call it L.E.A.D.:

Listen to the customer's issue. Don't need to listen to the tone of the words, just try to extrapolate the message. Ask questions to narrow down what the problem is, as most customers are not that great at articulating what the precise issue is, especially on their first attempt.
Empathize with the customer's frustration and repeat back the core of the message that you listened to. Not the whining tone, just the short summary of what they are looking to resolve, repeat it back to them. I know that sounds repetitive but trust me, it's a huge bonus if you do that because it lets the customer know you listened to them and got the important part of the message. Showing empathy also requires some patience and knowing how to bring the customer's attention back to the issue at hand and not how they feel about the company as a whole. Empathize by showing that you can understand their frustration, even if it's a simple "Yeah I can see how that'd be incredibly frustrating".
Apologize for the inconvenience and let them know you're looking into it. Bonus points for making a follow-up attempt to keep the customer in the loop. (i.e.: "I know you're still on hold, but I'm going to need to ask you to hold for a few more minutes as this is taking longer for me to find the solution than what I initially anticipated. Is that ok?" 9 times out of 10 they are ok with waiting when you follow up to let them know what the hold up is, and if they need to leave and come back later when they have more time they'll let you know.)
Deliver results. You can be the best communicator in the world, but if you don't deliver results, then it doesn't matter. Note that sometimes the result isn't always what the customer would like, but something they'll be happy enough to accept (i.e.: "We are out of stock of the item you wanted, but if you wish I have this model that is an upgrade that costs 10% more normally but I'd be happy to give it to you for the price of the lower model you initially wanted since we are out of stock." If the customer turns down your generosity, then oh well their loss.) Granted software doesn't have inventories, but you get my point. Take care of the customer, they ARE your source of revenue dollars.

What I'd like from Arc:

Continually tested to see that it doesn't not conflict with Steam
Making sure the uninstall works correctly and doesn't leave artifacts in the registry
Steamlined design (remember K.I.S.S. ; don't bloat it up with links and bells & whistles all in your face)
Lightweight on system resources. Don't bloat up RAM or CPU time with unnecessary crap that isn't part of what we are doing.
Make the overlay function doesn't conflict with Champions Online defaults, or change those defaults
Make the overlay function fully customizable, from the keybind that makes it work to the color and transparency.
Better synchonization with achievements. And "publishing" our character's achievements, biography information, and more to the web. (a feature we USED TO have in Champions Online that was taken away by the PWE website merger and never restored with Core or anything else...)
King and Queen titles. (ok this one is kind of my own personal choice, but I know I'm far from the only one who'd love to have those titles for use)

biffsmackwell · January 2014

I've been running Steam and Arc side by side, I get no problems whatsoever.

twg042370 · January 2014

I haven't had a problem with Arc. Don't care about the titles. Do care about the costumes since this is the best paper doll simulator ever.

quasimojo1 · January 2014

I had some concerns about Arc and treated it as I do any untrusted software, installing it in a VM (just to get the rewards), so that it couldn't adversely affect my host system configuration. I had questions about what information is being collected, why are you installing a browser plug-in, and can I opt out of the various information collection and notification features. It took some digging, but I was able to find answers to these questions here.

I still probably won't use Arc to launch the game unless it becomes required, because "less is more" when it comes to crap running in the background on my machines. But I don't feel quite as bad about it after reading the answers to their FAQ.

jonsills · January 2014

My only problem with Arc is that I'm pushing my system pretty close to the redline just running CO - adding Arc tends to shove it right over the edge. Fortunately, last I heard Cryptic was still maintaining that Steam would be functional even after the standalone launcher is disabled, and Steam's streamlined enough not to cause major issues for me. (Besides, I can shut Steam down after launching the game.)

The titles weren't that big a deal for me, although I have added "The" to Arachnid.

skcark · January 2014

When you mention chatting compenents within arc.. it reminded me of how USELESSS microsfot's party chat has become over the years of them adding more JUNK to the total service. always crashing constantly etc

so one issue i'd worry about is not only the additional crap i'd never use but would still eat up resources in the background but in future more crap being added and clugging it up even further

agentnx5 · January 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

I had some concerns about Arc and treated it as I do any untrusted software, installing it in a VM (just to get the rewards), so that it couldn't adversely affect my host system configuration. I had questions about what information is being collected, why are you installing a browser plug-in, and can I opt out of the various information collection and notification features. It took some digging, but I was able to find answers to these questions here.

I still probably won't use Arc to launch the game unless it becomes required, because "less is more" when it comes to crap running in the background on my machines. But I don't feel quite as bad about it after reading the answers to their FAQ.

Thanks for sharing that link, and feedback.

I got some of my questions answered it seems:

Does Arc replace the old game launchers?

We have long-term plans to unify our game launchers, though the timeline and specifics regarding this major change are pretty far out in the timeline. For the near future, please anticipate that the game launchers will continue to exist in their current form for a significant period of time. Once this plan becomes more concrete, we will definitely share the details and timeline. For now, please anticipate that the Arc client will continue to launch individual game launchers.

So basically it's a "yes it will but not just yet".

Are the forums going to change?

For our forums, no data will be lost or archived. While we will be making some minor high-level art design changes to better fit within the new website designs, everything should remain exactly as it was before.

We shall see... I seem to remember them saying something like this last time we were going to have a website change-over, now referred to by some teasingly as the Forum-apocalypse.

Privacy and Security

Does Arc gather any of my system information?

Optionally, you can opt-in to share basic information about your machine with us. This data is used to track performance and to help us optimize responsiveness, download speeds, download reliability across different hardware, etc. However, this information is only gathered if you explicitly choose to opt-in to this feature.

If I opt-in to share anonymous usage data, what information is collected and how is it used?

Please consult our Privacy Policy for more information.

In general, we use personal information we collect to process your requests or transactions, to provide you with information or services you request, to inform you about other information, events, promotions, products or services we think will be of interest to you, to facilitate your use of, and our administration and operation of, the Service, to better understand the needs of our visitors, and for the purpose for which the information was provided. For example, we may use the information we collect:

to send you a welcoming email and to contact you about your use of the Service;
to provide the services, products or information you request and to process any transactions in connection therewith;
to permit you to interact with other members of the Service on our forum, chat, social media or other similar features;
to provide technical support, customer service and ensure the continued smooth operation of our service;
for recruitment purposes, and if you are offered a job or become employed by us, for other employment-related purposes;
to respond to your emails, submissions, comments, requests or complaints;
to analyze user characteristics and usage patterns in order to better understand how our products and service are used and market them more effectively;
to display content and advertising that are customized to your interests and preferences;
to send you newsletters, surveys, contest and sweepstakes announcements and to notify contest and sweepstakes winners;
to request feedback, perform research and analysis and to enable us to operate, develop, customize and improve the Service and our publications, products and services;
to contact you about our or a third party?s services, products, activities, promotions, special events or offers and for other marketing, informational, product development and promotional purposes;
to prevent or investigate actual or suspected fraud, hacking, infringement, or other misconduct involving the Service or any of our products and services.

In order to offer you more consistent and personalized experience in your interactions with us, information collected through one offering or portion of the Service may be combined with information obtained through other offerings or portions of the Service. We may also supplement the information we collect with information obtained from other companies. For example, we may use services from other companies that enable us to derive a general geographic area based on IP address in order to customize certain services to your geographic area.

[...]

When you use the Service, some information is also automatically collected, such as your Internet Protocol (IP) address, your operating system, the browser or mobile device type and language, access times, the address of a referring website, and your activity on the Service.

[...]

You understand and agree that when you communicate with other players within a game or utilize any interactive features available on the Service, such as instant messaging, forums or chat rooms, such communications and postings are transmitted through our servers, and we may, but are not obligated to, monitor all such communications and postings, including those that are designated as ?private,? to the degree that laws and regulations enable us to do this. You acknowledge that you have no expectation of privacy with respect to any such communications or postings, and you expressly consent to such monitoring.

What anonymous data is collected from the built-in browser?

If a player opts-in to submit performance data, then we'll be gathering information on how fast pages load, etc., though this is only to track performance and only if you as a user wish to partake in the program. Currently, these data aren't saved in a human-readable form, but if this is a feature players want to see, we can definitely look into implementing that in the future.

In regard to browser security, we have tested the browser extensively to ensure that it is safe and secure. We take security extremely seriously, so even though we've done as much internal testing as we can, we will still be monitoring for user reports very closely in case anything is discovered that needs quick resolution.

In regard to collecting data, we understand that not all players are interested in submitting anonymous performance data from their machines, and that's totally OK. There is no requirement to opt-in to this feature in any way, and nothing is "gated" for users who do not elect to participate.

Is it possible to opt-out of social features, such as showing the games I play on my profile?

Since we have published several online games, all with their own unique social features, enabling users to configure privacy and security settings is something we believe in and have become quite accustomed to.

Arc allows players to opt-in or out to specific social features based on their preferences. This is also something that we will tune and tweak based on player feedback to ensure that we are meeting our goal of allowing everyone to meet his or her individual comfort level in regard to online social interactions.

What should I do if my security software gives me a warning when using Arc?

If you encounter any issues with security software while using Arc, please send a report to arc_feedback@perfectworld.com. It is helpful to include any details provided by the software regarding the behaviors or elements of Arc that triggered any potential warnings. We are committed to ensuring that Arc is safe, secure, and free of any software that could negatively impact your gaming experience, so we take these reports very seriously.

When using Chrome, I get a security notification asking to allow "ArcPlugin" to run. What does this Plugin do?

The ArcPlugin allows you to launch games directly from the browser. Once it is allowed to run, you can launch an installed game via Arc by clicking its "Play Game" link on the Arcgames.com website.

This answers several more questions, and basically makes Arc the same as Steam especially with the aggregate data part. Actually the aggregate data part is a great part of Steam, helping them design games that work better for their player population and getting statistics about the "active player population", which would help get rid of a lot of speculation we currently have.

bwdares · January 2014

I would have liked to benefit from getting a new costume as I already had the ones offered. The titles are okay, not a selling point.

The fact they even offered anything should really be enough, so I will not complain. Thanks Cryptic for giving something that you didn't have to give.

As for Arc itself, not in love with it, but I have not really explored it too much. Could get used to it. I will use the normal launcher until it is no longer usable.

kallethen · January 2014

Does Arc utilize any Torrent functionality?

Arc does not utilize Torrent functionality. Previous versions of our platform software (CORE client) did include Pando Media Booster, but this functionality has been completely removed from Arc.

HALLELUJAH! I can't express how glad I am to see PWE ditching that crappy Pando.

So far, I've been okay with trying out this new version of Arc. Having it running in the background (with Steam in the background as well) has not affected game performance. I very much do like that I can easily launch and switch between games (specifically CO and NW) without having to enter in my password each time (Arc automatically feeds it in).

One downside: I normally use my computer in a regular "user" profile and not and "admin" profile. When I boot my computer and Arc wants to check for updates, I have to authorize it through the Windows UAC to allow admin access for the updater. That will get tiring to have to do it each time I turn on my computer.

quasimojo1 · January 2014

kallethen wrote: »

One downside: I normally use my computer in a regular "user" profile and not and "admin" profile. When I boot my computer and Arc wants to check for updates, I have to authorize it through the Windows UAC to allow admin access for the updater. That will get tiring to have to do it each time I turn on my computer.

That's interesting. That would honestly be a dealbreaker for me (in case TT or anyone from PWE is monitoring this thread.) I would like an explanation as to why it needs admin privs.

sistersilicon · January 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

That's interesting. That would honestly be a dealbreaker for me (in case TT or anyone from PWE is monitoring this thread.) I would like an explanation as to why it needs admin privs.

If it has to install a patch, it will have to write to Program Files (x86), which requires a UAC prompt. (Assuming Program Files (x86) as the default Arc folder, of course.) There are ways, however, to wait until a patch is required before prompting. I hope PWE changes how they handle UAC escalation in a future update, because just prompting on launch all the time is rather lazy.

nepht · January 2014

You know what would be a great incentive for people to use ARC. Not forcing them to use it.
You might just find more people would use it if it remains optional >_>

towershield · January 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

That's interesting. That would honestly be a dealbreaker for me (in case TT or anyone from PWE is monitoring this thread.) I would like an explanation as to why it needs admin privs.

It probably has less to do with Arc and more to do with the user profile itself needing admin privs.

quasimojo1 · January 2014

sistersilicon wrote: »

If it has to install a patch, it will have to write to Program Files (x86), which requires a UAC prompt. (Assuming Program Files (x86) as the default Arc folder, of course.) There are ways, however, to wait until a patch is required before prompting. I hope PWE changes how they handle UAC escalation in a future update, because just prompting on launch all the time is rather lazy.

This is avoided currently though by installing updates to a non-system folder like "\Users\Public\Games\Cryptic Studios", right? At least that's how it's working for me with the original game launcher.

biffsmackwell · January 2014

nepht wrote: »

You know what would be a great incentive for people to use ARC. Not forcing them to use it.
You might just find more people would use it if it remains optional >_>

I wish YOU were optional.

OPT OUT! :mad:

chaelk · January 2014

I only have it installed for NW.(which doesn't go because my graphics doesn't support Directx 11. I use the normal launcher for CO.

costume sets I already had. Titlte : THE LIttle Pink Dude

sterga · January 2014

I believe opt-in is the default setting, so, you have to manually opt-out. I'm sure many people will miss that.

ARC client is nothing but a poor Steam imitation. Steam is superior in every way since I can have ALL of my games hooked up to it, not just PWI's. Plus all of those amazing sales. The Steam wallet. Being able to log into games with my Steam account. Better Linux and Mac support. How the client can work well even on a media TV in the living room. Do I need to go on? There will never be any reason to use ARC over Steam ever, as far as I'm concerned. I fail to see the point in even making this platform when Steam exists. Having your game listed on Steam is a fantastic way to get new players in. Not just using Steam for their games is a huge mistake.

That isn't to say the option to download and play games without Steam shouldn't exist, but when it comes to ARC vs Steam, there is no contest.

The companion website does nothing more than sterilize each and every game the company owns. The whole ARC client is just a waste of time and doesn't add ANYTHING to any of their games.

"The most important change that is coming is a major design overhaul for all of our game sites. Currently, all of our games run on separate websites, all with their own designs and formats. Once Arcgames.com transitions from beta to launch, all the websites will be brought together into a unified website architecture, and will all share the same look and feel."

WHY? Seriously, why? I like to visit a game site and see the personality of the game through the web design. Is this just a way to save money by not bothering with web maintenance? Shouldn't a unique website be part of marketing a game? I understand having functions shared between games, but making all of the website icky and boring doesn't need to be one of them.

Having to only log in to the web site once to access all of my PWI games stuff: Cool
Being able to launch games via the web site: Cool
Having shared website functionality between PWI games: Cool
Installing and using the ARC client: Waste of time.

And you know what? They could do game promotions through Rapr. Which also already exist and would have the benefit of tapping into a huge player base that may have never heard of PWI's games.

kallethen · January 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

This is avoided currently though by installing updates to a non-system folder like "\Users\Public\Games\Cryptic Studios", right? At least that's how it's working for me with the original game launcher.

I thought of that, too. I uninstalled and reinstalled and specified "\Users\Public\Games\Perfect World Entertainment" instead. I still had the UAC pop-up after rebooting the computer and logging into Windows.

Also consider that Steam installs into the "Program Files (x86)" directory, yet doesn't ask me for admin permissions when it runs it's updater at startup.

If you ask me, it's that the installer doesn't set permissions for user accounts fully. I've tried taking a look at the Steam folder and file permissions and even the Cryptic folder and file permissions and compared them to Arc's. Trying to edit permissions on the Arc folder to match, but so far I've not got it.

TLDR; File permissions and user accounts are something that PWE should keep in mind and program for.

quasimojo1 · January 2014

kallethen wrote: »

I thought of that, too. I uninstalled and reinstalled and specified "\Users\Public\Games\Perfect World Entertainment" instead. I still had the UAC pop-up after rebooting the computer and logging into Windows.

Also consider that Steam installs into the "Program Files (x86)" directory, yet doesn't ask me for admin permissions when it runs it's updater at startup.

If you ask me, it's that the installer doesn't set permissions for user accounts fully. I've tried taking a look at the Steam folder and file permissions and even the Cryptic folder and file permissions and compared them to Arc's. Trying to edit permissions on the Arc folder to match, but so far I've not got it.

TLDR; File permissions and user accounts are something that PWE should keep in mind and program for.

Yeah, they really need to look at this. If you ask me, giving Chinese video game software perpetual admin access to your machine is:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT52K-MRtsjHBWsj44EcAljwIpoEr7B76yQdOgPSi52SJPr2pcg1g

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT52K-MRtsjHBWsj44EcAljwIpoEr7B76yQdOgPSi52SJPr2pcg1g

Even if you fully trust PWE, it seems like a risky vector for installing malware that others might find ways to exploit.

artmanpwe · January 2014

I honestly can't think of an online game purveyor that doesn't have it's own integrated launcher anymore.

Aeria has Ignite
PWI has ARC
Blizzard's Battle.net app is in beta.

Sign o' the time, I suppose.

Comparing them all to Steam. Steam is still better. 'Course, it's been around longer.

Ignite was actually ahead of ARC and Battle.net for awhile in terms of functionality, but they have both caught up and passed it. Battle.net is ahead of ARC, IMO, but I'm sure that's because it's all under one roof. Edit: As an example. Ignite and ARC bring up the specific game's launcher when you push the button on their launcher. Battle.net goes straight into WoW, D3, Hearthstone or whatever, which is a step up in functionality/integration, but I'm sure that's because the B.net team and the rest are in the same building, using the same authentication servers.

I hesitate to mention Origin, because that has to be, hands down, the worst integrated store-launcher there is.

Edit: Oh, and I've been using ARC for months now, even before the new look. So, I'm not sure if I qualify for the incentives or not.

wingedkagouti · January 2014

I'm not seeing much of an incentive to use the Arc promotion for CO. A set of titles that should have been included as standard options for everyone before Launch and a couple of costume pieces. Compare this to the account wide Companion you get in NW and there's little reason to bother if all you play is CO.

As far as Arc itself goes, I can see the benefit to PWE but can't find much of a benefit to me as an end-user over the current patcher. In fact I find the Arc interface far more annoying than helpful.

As far as a Steam vs Arc comparison goes:

Steam:

Has season, weekly and daily sales with good discounts.
Has a very wide variety of games and genres available.
Steam Trading Cards allow you to earn money to spend on future purchases by playing unrelated games.

Arc:

Lets you apply promotional codes to PWE games
Lets you select from a fairly short list of F2P MMOs

Not seeing much reason to use Arc at this point.

artmanpwe wrote: »

II hesitate to mention Origin, because that has to be, hands down, the worst integrated store-launcher there is.

GfWL has all the others beat in that department. The only reason people are unhappy about it going away is that they lose the ability to play some of their games.

crypticbuxom · January 2014

As far as titles go, they should have included all of the formal ones. Mr, Miss, Mrs, Professor.

I would have liked to have a rename token for all my toons who's names star with the word "The".

For the Arc launcher itself, the prizes did give me incentive to try it. I like the way it looks. I almost thought it was Steam with how its layout was. I understand that PWE wants its own launcher to keep everything together. I just don't want it active AT ALL after I launch a game. Also the following from the OP.

agentnx5 wrote: »

What I'd like from Arc:
Continually tested to see that it doesn't not conflict with Steam

Making sure the uninstall works correctly and doesn't leave artifacts in the registry

Steamlined design (remember K.I.S.S. ; don't bloat it up with links and bells & whistles all in your face)

Lightweight on system resources. Don't bloat up RAM or CPU time with unnecessary crap that isn't part of what we are doing.

Make the overlay function doesn't conflict with Champions Online defaults, or change those defaults

Make the overlay function fully customizable, from the keybind that makes it work to the color and transparency.

Better synchonization with achievements. And "publishing" our character's achievements, biography information, and more to the web. (a feature we USED TO have in Champions Online that was taken away by the PWE website merger and never restored with Core or anything else...)

artmanpwe · January 2014

wingedkagouti wrote: »

...GfWL has all the others beat in that department. The only reason people are unhappy about it going away is that they lose the ability to play some of their games.

True, true. A cautionary tale of an integrated store-launcher-drm and multi-party development if there ever was one.

sistersilicon · January 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

Yeah, they really need to look at this. If you ask me, giving Chinese video game software perpetual admin access to your machine is:

Even if you fully trust PWE, it seems like a risky vector for installing malware that others might find ways to exploit.

And you've personally vetted all of the traffic from Cryptic Launcher and Cryptic Engine, right?

quasimojo1 · January 2014

sistersilicon wrote: »

And you've personally vetted all of the traffic from Cryptic Launcher and Cryptic Engine, right?

We're not talking about traffic; we're talking about permissions. There's a pretty big distinction.

Cryptic Launcher does not require admin privs, in my environment anyway.

r9xchaos · January 2014

I think the Arc Idea is a cool thing for people who play many PWI games.

The Titles are awesome and the costume pieces are nice for new / Silver players.

The reasons why i personally dont use Arc are the same reason i dont use Steam:

* I prefer to use the "original" game launchers since i like to control the use of my resources and the amount of processes running.

* I dont keep social contact with people from ingame outside of the game.

* I only play Champions Online actively AND other games i play are neither on Steam or Arc.

* In the past of my gaming experience i had to deal with NC-Soft and others who have forced us into using their launchers, adding more security and made our gaming life alot harder... extra passwords, account guards and all that crap...

(( about gameguards:im playing online games since 2001 or so and ive never been hacked ... no idea how people ger their accounts hacked ...))

That said it should be clear to everyone why i personally have no use for "multi-game-clients" such as Steam and Arc.

But again i think its a nice idea for people who are into massive social interatcions and multi-gaming... aslong as it stays OPTIONAL.

And if it helps increasing Champions population its an even better idea since Champions has a lack of advertisement... if i tell people about champs they think its a crap game...
due to the bad and/or almost non-existant trailers and because the game is almost unknown to most people i meet out there in the net.

But if we are forced to use Arc or Steam id rather stop playing games OR find a way to avoid using them multi-game launchers.

P.S. (( yes i know the cryptic launcher is also a multi-game client BUT for my defense...i played STO too.... but not anymore since it bores me))

sistersilicon · January 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

We're not talking about traffic; we're talking about permissions. There's a pretty big distinction.

Cryptic Launcher does not require admin privs, in my environment anyway.

We're talking about malware vectors, and you're making assumptions based on nationality. Should we automatically distrust Finnish software because the NSA may or may not have snooped on Angry Birds? Should we mistrust American software, because holy $#!^ would Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, Apple, et al love to figure out what the NSA may or may not have done with their customer data?

If you want a truly safe system, air-gap it and analyze every line of source code for yourself. Oh, and cut the traces to any built-in microphones. They've figured out how to use high-frequency sound as a vector now.

Or you can uninstall Java, Flash, and Adobe Reader (all known to be insecure as @$%&, and all American) and get on with your life, knowing that no software is truly safe from the motivated, and hope you didn't shop at Target on Black Friday.

quasimojo1 · January 2014

sistersilicon wrote: »

We're talking about malware vectors, and you're making assumptions based on nationality. Should we automatically distrust Finnish software because the NSA may or may not have snooped on Angry Birds? Should we mistrust American software, because holy $#!^ would Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, Apple, et al love to figure out what the NSA may or may not have done with their customer data?

If you want a truly safe system, air-gap it and analyze every line of source code for yourself. Oh, and cut the traces to any built-in microphones. They've figured out how to use high-frequency sound as a vector now.

Or you can uninstall Java, Flash, and Adobe Reader (all known to be insecure as @$%&, and all American) and get on with your life, knowing that no software is truly safe from the motivated, and hope you didn't shop at Target on Black Friday.

I don't know why you're getting all bitchy with me for not wanting PWE's launcher to have constant admin privs. It's a pretty reasonable request really.

I think you said you're a software developer? So in addition to knowing the difference between traffic and permissions, you've probably heard of the principle of least privilege. Do you really disagree that a network application with admin privs is potentially much less secure than one without privileged access?

I really doubt that I am the only person that has, or will, express some concern over this.

Also, please tell me more about how China is not a significant source of malware.

"In terms of numbers of attacks, Chinese-speaking malware, Chinese-speaking criminals, they are more than half of the attacks."

sterga · January 2014

One of the awesome things about steam is the ability to add any game to your library, even those not available on steam. It's what allowed me to get some WAR shots before the game died. It also allowed me to hook up Hellgate London and launch it from Steam instead of having more shortcut icons.

Just because everyone else has some stupid program for their games isn't a good reason to bother with your own. I would rather ARC be a system that improves web based connectivity between their games instead of an inferior Steam program.

I'm not so picky that I didn't install ARC just for the free stuff, but I'm never going to use it otherwise. I installed Raptr for the same "free stuff" reason... and almost never use that either. There are plenty of free things I can claim from the website anyway.

biffsmackwell · January 2014

sterga wrote: »

One of the awesome things about steam is the ability to add any game to your library, even those not available on steam.

You can do that with Arc, too. But I get that it's less useful in that way since the naturally available game library is much smaller.

skuallpw · January 2014

because we need more crappy launchers >.>

Steam is the only 1 i love

Origin
GFW (
Battle.net (S2 , diablo 3 , hearthstone and wow)

now ARC?

thanks but no thanks enough already!

sistersilicon · January 2014

quasimojo1 wrote: »

I don't know why you're getting all bitchy with me for not wanting PWE's launcher to have constant admin privs. It's a pretty reasonable request really.

I think you said you're a software developer? So in addition to knowing the difference between traffic and permissions, you've probably heard of the principle of least privilege. Do you really disagree that a network application with admin privs is potentially much less secure than one without privileged access?

I really doubt that I am the only person that has, or will, express some concern over this.

Also, please tell me more about how China is not a significant source of malware.

"In terms of numbers of attacks, Chinese-speaking malware, Chinese-speaking criminals, they are more than half of the attacks."

I may have mixed up my threads, since there are multiple discussions about Arc going on right now, but somewhere around here, I've called blanket UAC prompts lazy programming. I'm well aware of least privilege.

I'm also aware of the concentration of malware authors in certain nations. That has no bearing on the quality of the work of professional developers from those same nations. Not once in my 20 years of software development have I ever walked into a code review expecting to find a logic bomb, back door, or other form of sabotage, because the Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Taiwanese, Indian, Sri Lankan, Pakistani, Israeli, Palestinian, South African, Brazilian, English, Welsh, Dominican, Canadian, and American developers I've worked with have all been professionals.

Now if you think Arc is being developed by Chinese script kiddies off the street, not professionals, you can take that up with TrailTurtle. But if you think they're automatically script kiddies because they're Chinese, I'll leave it up to you what that really means.

kallethen · January 2014

sistersilicon wrote: »

I've called blanket UAC prompts lazy programming.

To be honest, I think it is more likely that THIS is the reason for the blanket UAC prompts rather than malicious intent. Arc is hardly the first nor the last software suffering from such laziness.

quasimojo1 · January 2014

kallethen wrote: »

To be honest, I think it is more likely that THIS is the reason for the blanket UAC prompts rather than malicious intent. Arc is hardly the first nor the last software suffering from such laziness.

Oh I agree completely. I never said it was malicious; only that it should be fixed.

heroshima1 · January 2014

I'm not crazy about yet another program running in the background, even when I'm not playing. Currently, closing ARC still allows it to run in the System Tray. Why does Arc need to be running ALL the time? I'm leery of a gaming program running even when I'm NOT gaming.

As far as the rewards, you can't please everyone all the time, right? I think the costumes are good for non-Golds and those that never bought them. As a LT account holder that tends to buy most costumes, I only got the titles. Titles to me are meh at best.

I think if they want to influence use of Arc, there should be a NEW costume set available exclusive to Arc users. Sure people will complain, they always do, but they'll complain while using ARC to get the new shinnies. :biggrin:

biffsmackwell · January 2014

heroshima1 wrote: »

I'm not crazy about yet another program running in the background, even when I'm not playing. Currently, closing ARC still allows it to run in the System Tray. Why does Arc need to be running ALL the time? I'm leery of a gaming program running even when I'm NOT gaming.

Right click Arc from the system tray and exit?

deadman20 · January 2014

agentnx5 wrote: »

Continually Tested To See That It Doesn't Not Conflict With Steam
-not A Big Issue With Steam Currently, But Multiple Overlays May Cause Issues.

Making Sure The Uninstall Works Correctly And Doesn't Leave Artifacts In The Registry
-if Your Programs Don't Do This, They May As Well Just Be Spam In My Inbox. I'll Manually Delete Every Bit Of Evidence That This Program Had Ever Existed On My Pc If I Have To If The Program Itself Is Incapable Of Doing Something Its Programmers Should Know How To Implement In The First Place.

Lightweight On System Resources. Don't Bloat Up Ram Or Cpu Time With Unnecessary Crap That Isn't Part Of What We Are Doing.
-arc Should Consider Itself In An Idle State When The Program Itself Is Not Being Used. If It Does Use An Idle State, But Is Still Eating Up Resources Meant For The Games A Portion Of Us Pay PWE To Play And Develop On, Then Arc Should Not Exist.

Make The Overlay Function Fully Customizable, From The Keybind That Makes It Work To The Color And Transparency.
-if Arc And Steam Use The Same Keybinds To Open The Overlay, I Will Always Want To Change The Keybinds For Arc First. I'm Too Comfortable With The Binds I Use For Steam.

All in all, if Arc isn't spyware like PWE claims, then none of this should be an issue.

quasimojo1 · January 2014

sistersilicon wrote: »

I may have mixed up my threads, since there are multiple discussions about Arc going on right now, but somewhere around here, I've called blanket UAC prompts lazy programming. I'm well aware of least privilege.

I'm also aware of the concentration of malware authors in certain nations. That has no bearing on the quality of the work of professional developers from those same nations. Not once in my 20 years of software development have I ever walked into a code review expecting to find a logic bomb, back door, or other form of sabotage, because the Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Taiwanese, Indian, Sri Lankan, Pakistani, Israeli, Palestinian, South African, Brazilian, English, Welsh, Dominican, Canadian, and American developers I've worked with have all been professionals.

Now if you think Arc is being developed by Chinese script kiddies off the street, not professionals, you can take that up with TrailTurtle. But if you think they're automatically script kiddies because they're Chinese, I'll leave it up to you what that really means.

I think we've about wrapped this up. But since you decided to try to turn a technical/security discussion into a character attack, I do feel the need to briefly address that.

You gave an example of a professional inter-team relationship, which is very different from an anonymous consumer-producer relationship. I never said I wouldn't or hadn't worked with professionals from China. I mentioned the fact that PWRD is a Chinese company not because I think professional Chinese developers are less trustworthy, but a) because the regulatory environment is very different there and b) documented reports that certain types of products from China can have higher risk (which is not always just the result of "script kiddies", but systemic and sometimes state-sponsored.)

I don't buy dog treats from China. Maybe in your mind that's an indication of racism/nationalism. But it's actually an indication that I care about my dogs and pay attention when there's substantial evidence of danger. Similarly, my choosing to not drink the tap water in Costa Rica is not an indictment of the PEOPLE, just the state of water treatment infrastructure.

Now, unlike in your example, I don't have any way of knowing who has access to the Arc source code or build/distribution process (subcontractors, etc.), or what kind of security certification policies they have in place. That's completely outside of my control. What is within my control, in this context, is what I choose to install on my machines. And I stand by my original contention that, regardless of whether it's just "lazy programming", letting a network application like Arc run in the background with admin privs is outside of my personal risk tolerance and a bad idea if you are moderately concerned about security. If you're telling people it's perfectly safe, that's on you; I'm just saying I wouldn't do it.

cptmillennium · January 2014

I've been using Arc for awhile it hasn't provided any added benefit to me as a user it hasn't hurt either. I'll always be happy to take a few freebies though, so I'm not complaining.

For Cryptic, I'd just suggest making Arc's value to the players clear. Right now I'm not sure why it needs to exist or what I'm supposed to get out of it, if anything.

thereactor2 · January 2014

I never got those arc rewards even though i used the code.

themightyzenith · January 2014

thereactor2 wrote: »

I never got those arc rewards even though i used the code.

Did you go into the C-Store in-game and look in the "Bonus" tab?

jonsills · January 2014

themightyzenith wrote: »

Did you go into the C-Store in-game and look in the "Bonus" tab?

And if the stuff is there (as it should be), when you redeem the titles, they actually come in a box that will appear in your inventory. You have to open that box before you can use the titles. Yes, it's very silly, I know.

thereactor2 · January 2014

...and i feel like an idiot now.

Thanks for the help.

jonsills · January 2014

thereactor2 wrote: »

...and i feel like an idiot now. Thanks for the help.

Don't feel dumb. The messages you got when you entered the code told you two different things (one of which didn't even pertain to this game), and neither of them was correct. I had to find out in Chat.

bwdares · January 2014

thereactor2 wrote: »

...and i feel like an idiot now. Thanks for the help.

Yeah dont feel dumb. Arc lies to you. Well it lied to me. It told me to go into Never Winter to claim by CO titles.

trailturtle · January 2014

bwdares wrote: »

Yeah dont feel dumb. Arc lies to you. Well it lied to me. It told me to go into Never Winter to claim by CO titles.

Yeah, we've reported that one.

spinnytop · January 2014

Why spider stuff? Is Arc run by spiders?

fudgemonsta · January 2014

spinnytop wrote: »

Why spider stuff? Is Arc run by spiders?

They've upgraded the hamsters to Australian attack spiders.

heroshima1 · January 2014

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Right click Arc from the system tray and exit?

I question the need/design to run in the system tray. I know how to turn it off, but what about those people that don't know how, or even know it's running in the tray?

wingedkagouti · January 2014

heroshima1 wrote: »

I question the need/design to run in the system tray. I know how to turn it off, but what about those people that don't know how, or even know it's running in the tray?

I agree with this sentiment. That small X in the top right is meant to exit the application, the nearby _ bar is the minimize button. That's Windows Application UI Design 101.

chaelk · January 2014

fudgemonsta wrote: »

They've upgraded the hamsters to Australian attack spiders.

err, which ones? We have quite a few to choose from. Are you talking about the jumpers or the venomous climbers or m aybe the ones which just build a whopping great web across pathways?
http://spiders.zacharoo.com/

Here's a list to choose from. NO, you are not having a golden orb spider

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