People hate that this is a game for casuals should go back to EVE.
Considering there is a very sizable(read: large) portion of the EVE community that not only encourages new players but actually embraces their "cute newbies", I'm inclined to think you're just parroting what you've heard about it from other people.
HighSec space is carebears and NullSec is pretty easy going.
sterga, didn't you recently tell me you WEREN'T arguing for a base difficulty increase? :rolleyes:
I'm not arguing for either, I'm trolling people who don't want the difficulty to be increased. I do think the game should provide suitable challenge for the target audience, which is not me.
My official stance on difficulty in CO: I'd rather the combat be super fun and wouldn't complain if it became more challenging but ultimately will find my own entertainment within the game. This means that the difficulty of CO doesn't actually matter to me because that's not why I'm here.
As long as people flip out and tell those who do want a challenge to "GTFO elitist scum", I will continue to mock and play devil's advocate.
Do you really have that little faith in your own abilities that you think the current level of "challenge" presented by the game is all you can do?
No, I just don't have the time (or the inclination) to turn playing a GAME, a thing that's supposed to be FUN, into another (unpaid, thankless) job. I want a game I can pop in and relax for an hour or two, until it's time to go take care of the kids or comb poop off the dog's butt or take the cat's latest trophy back outside or something.
And I want to be able to solo almost everything because I have two autistic children (who, when they need something, need it now), and am also helping to care for an Iraq vet with severe PTSD issues who might need talking down at any moment, and a woman with severe chronic depression who might also need talking down at any moment (or might need some help with a hypoglycemic crash, as her pancreas is mostly for decoration, or might need a lidocaine patch to help deal with her fibromyalgia). It wouldn't be very fair to you, would it, to make you stop in the middle of, say, Mal Zver for about ten minutes or so while I go take care of a personal emergency?
It's one of the reasons I gave up on WoW - even if I had been able to find someone willing to help me learn how to do those teamed dungeons, which in a population of over 11 million at the time I have to concede might have been a possibility (although not one I had ever experimentally verified), we still would have been forced to stop for a few minutes every so often, leaving the team to cool their heels or leave me behind (and their instances, unlike ours, repopulate over time).
It's great that you don't have personal responsibilities that might take precedence over the game (since I assume you wouldn't want to leave folks hanging either). More power to you. But I, and I presume others here, do have such responsibilities. I play games as an escape from them, not as an extension of them.
And before the seemingly-inevitable cry of "just make sure you have a block of time set aside!" arises, as it has before, I'd just like to remind you of the fact that my responsibilities all have to do with people with whom I live (and without whom I probably couldn't, and that's not just hyperbole). The only way I could "set aside a block of time" would be to wait until everyone else was asleep - and I have to sleep sometime too!
My apologies if this was TMI for anyone, but I'm a high-functioning autistic myself, and thus have little sense of personal boundaries - and you did ask...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I mean the game is fun as it is right now.. playign an AT without nemesis gear at lowlevels is fairly hard due to you dont have shield from the start and not all ATs have good Aoes...
And now dont say "then go team up" because some peopel prefer to play alone because they can decide the speed of their actions or like to go AFK between events and so on...
i for example team up very rarely, only for nemcom... but in open world and normal instances i like to be for myself, i can stop killing, doing screens , get myself a drink and yeah... whiel when im with others its either me who has to wait for loading times or AFKers or vice versa...
also , some people join this game alone.. they dont know anyone they just play the game .. if you make the game any harder they will be forced to beg in zone chat for help...
and not everyone wants to help also.. i mean i have 5 lvl 40 chars... all i do is nemcon and nemsis missions because i already ran all the content available...if i onyl think about doing lowlevel mission i need to vomit becuase of the cutscenes that are not skip'able...
that being said i dont think we need a harder difficulity
No, I just don't have the time (or the inclination) to turn playing a GAME, a thing that's supposed to be FUN, into another (unpaid, thankless) job.
And who the heck is asking for the game to be turned into anything even resembling a job? Where are these fictional posts that you're referencing with this comment?
I expect once again for you to avoid this question entirely of course, because I know that no one is asking for this, meaning that neither you, nor anyone else, can provide the aformentioned posts that you are referencing.
I want a game I can pop in and relax for an hour or two, until it's time to go take care of the kids or comb poop off the dog's butt or take the cat's latest trophy back outside or something.
And where do you see anyone saying "Hey, make it so that playing this game takes more than two hours" ?
And I want to be able to solo almost everything because I have two autistic children (who, when they need something, need it now), and am also helping to care for an Iraq vet with severe PTSD issues who might need talking down at any moment, and a woman with severe chronic depression who might also need talking down at any moment (or might need some help with a hypoglycemic crash, as her pancreas is mostly for decoration, or might need a lidocaine patch to help deal with her fibromyalgia). It wouldn't be very fair to you, would it, to make you stop in the middle of, say, Mal Zver for about ten minutes or so while I go take care of a personal emergency?
Again, where do you see anyone saying the entire game needs to be turned into forced group content?
You do realize that you're playing Champions Online and not WoW right? This isn't a trinity game, meaning if a member of the group has to go afk, the rest of the team can just keep going; and nobody is asking for that to change (except for like 1 person who I've seen actually asking for the game to become trinity focused, but they don't actually show up much here on the forums).
It's one of the reasons I gave up on WoW - even if I had been able to find someone willing to help me learn how to do those teamed dungeons, which in a population of over 11 million at the time I have to concede might have been a possibility (although not one I had ever experimentally verified), we still would have been forced to stop for a few minutes every so often, leaving the team to cool their heels or leave me behind (and their instances, unlike ours, repopulate over time).
I left WoW for the same reasons... that's why it sounds so daft to me when you accuse me of wanting to turn CO into WoW. You starting to get that?
It's great that you don't have personal responsibilities that might take precedence over the game (since I assume you wouldn't want to leave folks hanging either). More power to you. But I, and I presume others here, do have such responsibilities. I play games as an escape from them, not as an extension of them.
It's great that you want to make assumptions about people whom you know nothing about. I'm not surprised, since each one of my responses in this post seem to be about pointing out how you're making false assumptions about other people.
My life is my own business, but when it comes to video games I prefer the ones where I can log off the second I don't feel like playing anymore and have it not ruin anyone else's good time, because that just makes sense to me. Fact is, the game doesn't have to be tuned to be playable by a drunk person watching youtube videos with their browser covering most of the game window for that preference to be a possibility.
And before the seemingly-inevitable cry of "just make sure you have a block of time set aside!" arises, as it has before, I'd just like to remind you of the fact that my responsibilities all have to do with people with whom I live (and without whom I probably couldn't, and that's not just hyperbole). The only way I could "set aside a block of time" would be to wait until everyone else was asleep - and I have to sleep sometime too!
There you go with the assumptions again. Whatever crystal ball you're looking into to figure out what someone is going to type before they type it? Sorry pal, it's broken. One of the reasons I dropped WoW was because I hated having to schedule my time around the game. The day I quit, it was because I was out fishing with my buddies, and I realized that I had to leave or I would be late for a raid... I made my decision about "scheduling for video games" that day by casting my reel and catching a 22 pounder.
Again, where do you see anyone demanding that the game be turned into something that we have to schedule our lives around? That crystal ball again?
My apologies if this was TMI for anyone, but I'm a high-functioning autistic myself, and thus have little sense of personal boundaries - and you did ask...
Seems to me you need to do a bit more asking. Like asking other people what their actual opinions are, and what they're actually asking be done to the game, rather than just outright assuming everyone is trying to turn CO into Raidcraft. You seem to think you're fighting the "Legion Of Turn CO Into WoW"... you seem to think that wanting more challenge is somehow synonymous with "wants the game to be trinity raid based and require heavy time investment and scheduling"... even though there's nothing actually being written that backs up either of those beliefs.
I think its more a matter of the end results of what you guys ask for, rather than what your intentions are.
You haven't played games that are both challenging and casual friendly then. I have, that's why I know that higher challenge doesn't automatically mean raid schedules.
This is why we never get new content. No matter what level of difficulty, people always complain it's too hard.
Okay not being serious, just wanted to type something like the "you never get content because CO players complain always ever with no gratefulosity" gibberish crowd types.
No, wait. I wanna be contrarian. And be included! That is the reason. It's the customers fault. Always has been, I've just been too blind to see it.
I had much more I wanted to say, but my winged mini unicorn just got out of it's cage and is gonna break something at this rate.
Difficulty SCHMIKICULTY, none of this will make a bit of difference if we DON'T GET NEW CONTENT.
This is why we never get new content. No matter what level of difficulty, people always complain it's too hard.
Okay not being serious, just wanted to type something like the "you never get content because CO players complain always ever with no gratefulosity" gibberish crowd types.
No, wait. I wanna be contrarian. And be included! That is the reason. It's the customers fault. Always has been, I've just been too blind to see it.
I had much more I wanted to say, but my winged mini unicorn just got out of it's cage and is gonna break something at this rate.
Difficulty SCHMIKICULTY, none of this will make a bit of difference if we DON'T GET NEW CONTENT.
QFT. I particularly don't care about difficulty. I just want new content or even rehashing of the least played content. Imho, no lair, AP, CS or cosmic should be soloable by anybody just by the reasoning that is group content. Enrage timers and adds handling are a way other games try to keep group content only for groups.
Like I said, I think lairs should have soloable versions and non soloable versions. with greater rewards for the non soloable type to reward team play.
I don't see a point in a soloable lair. Lairs in their current state can already be solo'ed on normal difficulty and you don't need a top-of-the-line FOTM build for that.
They just need to do something about Elite difficulty and how it affects the kind of mobs being spawned in the lairs.
I see no point to soloing lairs. Lairs are nothing more than large instances littered with mobs and punctuated by bosses. It's nothing more than a bash (snooze) fest. When I want to do it, I recruit a team, it's actually more enjoyable that way.
The only times I bring my toons solo into lairs are when I'm testing for survivability on my builds.
Adventure packs and Comic series on the other hand have more replay value, they are soloable and should remain so. You can still enjoy them in a team or by yourself if you can't find one.
I do not care for content to become tedious over enjoyable with difficulty increases. Partly because I do not favour large area range AOEs or high DPS range powers. Melee is my bias and soloing content on elite is still an acceptable pace for me.
Okay so I only half followed the various arguments going on in this thread.
First I have to say, if you can't get jokes and hate sarcasm then foxi probably isn't your cuppa tea. Just saying the sarcasm here is nothing in comparison to their PvP sarcasm.
If you have played LoL this is something you may have seen, but I think it sort of sums up one of the arguments people are having. Some people are saying 'if you don't like what I want the game to be like then the game shouold tell you this:'
No, no, no! We don't want to be telling people to play a new game, we want to be making CO as versatile as it can be so it can be a great game for all types of people. This means there should be plenty of easy content for people to sit around afk in. There should be content hard where supporting players / tanks can feel of use. There should be areas for people to RP freely. There should be PvP maps that actually don't kick half the people every single time. We should have content that is hard enough for theory crafters to spend a week on a build just to attempt it.
We are a pretty small community, but we have lots of people with lots of different ideas about what makes a game great. We don't want to be turning players away, we want to be accepting every type of gamer and giving them something to do while they are here.
Also whats with all the Asian girls being used as avatars?
None of this matters as long as we continue to not get major NEW EXPORABLE CONTENT and continue have a small ACTIVE player population (active being people actively logged in and playing the game's content). It's hard to even get some of the regular alerts to even launch, that's how low our active population has gotten.
ALL content should be soloable period. (well ok there can be a few therakiel type lairs)
What the ****?!
No! 100% disagree.
Look DaZee... What is the point in playing a Massive MultiplayerOnline game if all you want to do is solo everything?
That's what single player games are made for! And there's FAR better single player games than Champions Online out there.
Your logic is seriously flawed, as is anyone who agrees with that statement. This is not a single player game, it's a MMO. I never thought I'd have to actually write that, seems so obvious, but there you go.
seriously when will you people stop trying to get the game changed to force people to play how you believe they should?
We were forced into easy-mode. If you're so against forcing people to play a certain way, you should not be against the game being harder, like it once was.
Smackwell kind of owned you on this point DaZee, sorry. Smackwell is corect, the game used to be much more challenging and it's been make into a cakewalk to make it more "archetype friendly".
DaZee, you haven't been here long enough to know what it was like before, by your own admission of when you started. I've lost contact with a TON of people on my friends list (like at least 75% of my gigantic friends list) due to the game being completely changed around more than once in combination with there being no lasting PvE challenge to interest them. That's a pretty disgustingly high number of people either getting fed up with Cryptic's antics and/or getting bored. There's times I even wonder why I'm still here myself, as I've done every bit of content in the game at least once on the hardest difficulty and beat it all. My main character has every inch of every zone explored, and a vast number of perk points. If it were not for friends, love for my characters, and the joy of creating builds and helping other players in teamplay, I'd have left long ago.
Which brings up a good point. I want to see an emphasis on teamplay because it offers a variety in combat that playing alone just doesn't bring. And if you truly can't see the fun in teamwork, then why the heck are you playing a MMO?! No really, I don't mean offense by that. I feel you'd be much happier playing an awesome single player. Especially ones like Gary's Mod, Skyrim, or even Minecraft where there are countless source code mods available for download that can let your imagination really go free.
Nothing more to strive for turns into people getting bored turns into people no longer being active or logging in to play. Mark my words on this. I've seen it, still seeing it, and will see it happen.
Also whats with all the Asian girls being used as avatars?
I am prettiest princess.
Sticking with the thread, the difficulty needs a boot in the arse in terms of AI. I'd like to see goons get new powers as you move up the difficulty, like if a New Purple Gang guy pulls out a rocket launcher rather than a shotgun or a VIPER power armour suddenly starts using Fire All Weapons on Elite. Just little additions to the mobs in instances so they at least seem like a threat rather than cannon fodder.
As far as cosmics go, I think they're fine as they are. Maybe a little bit of a nerf, but nothing that would make them soloable by absolutely everyone. The challenge from those guys are supposed to be from the fact you need those extra heroes to help you with something you can't handle alone.
Look DaZee... What is the point in playing a Massive MultiplayerOnline game if all you want to do is solo everything?
That's what single player games are made for! And there's FAR better single player games than Champions Online out there.
Your logic is seriously flawed, as is anyone who agrees with that statement. This is not a single player game, it's a MMO. I never thought I'd have to actually write that, seems so obvious, but there you go.
I would guess that a sizable majority of CO's population doesn't play the game because it's an MMO, but because it's a superhero game with incredible customization options. The fact that it's an MMO (and the first 'M' is charitable in CO's case) is just something many people put up with in order to create their own superheroes.
I realize I point this out at the risk of being judged as "flawed". But the massively multiplayer part of CO is way, way, way down on the list of things that appeal to me about this game. Judging by the hours you see some people spend just trying to get 5 people together to run content, I would be shocked if I'm the only one who feels this way.
I would guess that a sizable majority of CO's population doesn't play the game because it's an MMO, but because it's a superhero game with incredible customization options. The fact that it's an MMO (and the first 'M' is charitable in CO's case) is just something many people put up with in order to create their own superheroes.
I realize I point this out at the risk of being judged as "flawed". But the massively multiplayer part of CO is way, way, way down on the list of things that appeal to me about this game. Judging by the hours you see some people spend just trying to get 5 people together to run content, I would be shocked if I'm the only one who feels this way.
So you're telling me that people have to put up with the fact others can see their super heroes and they can talk to others / play the game with others? Oh, that's certainly the worst part about CO.
I think most people actually use CO as a 'chat room' of sorts although with 3D graphics and the ability to totally customize yourself. I would never really do much solo, I would much prefer to duo things. I think most of the time I spend in the game is spent making costumes / building funny builds that are still worth while using / standing around in ren cen chatting to people. The fact CO is a multiplayer game is the entire point in the game. The fact that everyone in the game makes something totally uniquely 'them' is simply amazing.
Now this is sort of gone away from the argument about if content is too easy or just right. Frankly I am still calling out for hardmode versions of all the current content, that would mean all the level 1-39 stuff which is pretty cool and made so a group of players can have fun doing it would be made as hard level 40 content. This would give us so much more to do especially if we got something out of it although I really don't care about that.
If I do content in the game I do it for fun, I have everything I ever wanted in the game apart from a RAD sphere legacy device which I was like one or two missions away from getting when I came back to the game to find out they removed crafting. -_-
But just saying, I should hope that not a sizeable majority prefer to play on their own and not talk to anyone. That would not be good for any online game.
So you're telling me that people have to put up with the fact others can see their super heroes and they can talk to others / play the game with others? Oh, that's certainly the worst part about CO.
I think most people actually use CO as a 'chat room' of sorts although with 3D graphics and the ability to totally customize yourself. I would never really do much solo, I would much prefer to duo things. I think most of the time I spend in the game is spent making costumes / building funny builds that are still worth while using / standing around in ren cen chatting to people. The fact CO is a multiplayer game is the entire point in the game. The fact that everyone in the game makes something totally uniquely 'them' is simply amazing.
Now this is sort of gone away from the argument about if content is too easy or just right. Frankly I am still calling out for hardmode versions of all the current content, that would mean all the level 1-39 stuff which is pretty cool and made so a group of players can have fun doing it would be made as hard level 40 content. This would give us so much more to do especially if we got something out of it although I really don't care about that.
If I do content in the game I do it for fun, I have everything I ever wanted in the game apart from a RAD sphere legacy device which I was like one or two missions away from getting when I came back to the game to find out they removed crafting. -_-
But just saying, I should hope that not a sizeable majority prefer to play on their own and not talk to anyone. That would not be good for any online game.
I hate the saying just saying, but just saying: That last bit stung. From my standpoint it feels like that alot (last 2 years). An army of superheroes, but no war.
I hate the saying just saying, but just saying: That last bit stung. From my standpoint it feels like that alot (last 2 years). An army of superheroes, but no war.
I see you clearly never PvP'd against some of the people who take it far too seriously. ;D
We've had a few wars.
Problem is that the PvP is done as such instead of people use theme builds both SG's find what they believe to be the optimum build and create an army of clones. However both SG's have different builds if you are in that SG you have their version of the FOTM. (and yes we do actually get some people in PvP who name themselves as a villain who does villainous things)
That's a different story. I suppose in PvE there is no true global goal to save the world.
We are a pretty small community, but we have lots of people with lots of different ideas about what makes a game great. We don't want to be turning players away, we want to be accepting every type of gamer and giving them something to do while they are here.
I'd rather CO have a focus instead of trying to appeal to ever gamer ever. CO should do what it does well and it doesn't. The game is full of half finished stuff because the devs kept jumping on the next cool thing. There is nothing wrong with a game focusing on a certain type of player. That's how you attract people.
Look DaZee... What is the point in playing a Massive MultiplayerOnline game if all you want to do is solo everything?
Being super solo friendly is a trend in many MMOs that's been around for years. The only things that have largely remained group only are raids and dungeons. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if many people expected all MMOs to be mostly solo events.
I can't see how anyone thinks there is any challenge in CO. Characters are so powerful that everything is trivialized. Sadly, there isn't the option to do awesome dumb stuff instead. (Haymakers causing mobs to disintegrate. Uppercuts blasting mobs into the sun. SMGs causing bloodsplosions.)
Advanced (Cant remember actual name at the momemt): Should use the Very Hard buff
Hard: Should make all mobs their alert "Tough!" versions
Very Hard: Should add the very Elite buff to the "Tough!" alert mobs (Minus the perception buff)
Elite: Should have all "Tough!" mobs with the Elite buff, and you should be automatically set to 5x players by default. Enemies get 5 levels for every -Actual- player added to the team, beyond the first.
Cant be Arsed: Instantly get to level 40 by making Grond jokes in zone.
Nah see; this, this should be hard-moded. 1 joke = 1 EXP. You level to 40 by making, what; 16 million jokes? Now that is something deserving of a title even. : )
Edit: ...it even encourages the use of a social feature of the game.
The problem is it's all well and good to make a way to make content harder. The problem is rewards is a big thing for some people, also I've already done all the level 40 content so much it sort of gets repetitive. Making that content harder isn't going to do a great deal for me personally. What I would suggest as a better thing is to make a sort of elite mode that makes everything set for a level 40 elite mode. For example you can go into an instance and level everything up to 40 which will allow you to do all that old content again without you just speeding through it thinking about how pointless it is.
FYI I'm never saying anything about forced group, I'm talking about having a point in grouping. If there is no point in grouping up with friends then I don't really even see a point in doing the content at all unless I'm actually going to find it fun.
What is needed is proper scaling. Have you seen how fast Conquer ( plus special guest star Jewel Peach ) took down the big T when we got to him. 30 seconds and that was on elite.
With CO when you learn how to build properly you literally build for any possible threat....and that doesn't factor to what ever gizmos you pick up over the years. The problem is we are all Batman here :I
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
What is needed is proper scaling. Have you seen how fast Conquer ( plus special guest star Jewel Peach ) took down the big T when we got to him. 30 seconds and that was on elite.
With CO when you learn how to build properly you literally build for any possible threat....and that doesn't factor to what ever gizmos you pick up over the years. The problem is we are all Batman here :I
The funny thing is your team probably wasn't even fully min maxed cheese DPS. :O More like basic team of random people.
However, I do have a problem with content being boring, wether that content is in an alert, in a comic series, in a lair, or in an open zone.
I get that some of you love that super boring content where you run up to mobs, one shot them, and then rush off to the next group of mobs to one shot them, the whole time the mobs reacting as though they just had their brains removed (a phenomenon that I have been unable to solve no matter how much I gimp my characters)(a phenomenon that I have been unable to solve no matter how much I gimp my characters)(a phenomenon that I have been unable to solve no matter how much I gimp my characters).
However, while leveling my character in an open zone, I'd like to run into some mobs that actually seem like a threat. I don't want to be forced into instances to find something challenging, any more than I want to be forced into a group to participate in challenging content.
Finding another game to play instead of CO isn't an option... it's actually not realistic at all. I already play those other games in addition to CO... so what is it that people are actually even asking me to do when they say "just go play game X"?
CHALLENGE: Try to find any part of this post where I say the entire game should be made more challenging. If you can do it without leaning heavily on interpretation (i.e. you can quote where I said it without any explanation needed for why that is what I'm saying) I'll give you my hoverbike.
Yes, Spinny, because we're all entertained in the exact same way. Nobody here wants to read descriptions, or watch cutscenes, or God forbid try to follow a plot through all these missions - no, we all just want to fight things that are trying to kill us. Being a superhero is all about beating stuff up and being beaten up, after all, not about finding goals and trying to accomplish them. Plotlines and adventures are boring, unless you're fighting for your life and a big monetary reward, right?
I think I've had this particular argument long enough, though. It's apparent that some folks are more interested in constructing strawmen than actually reading what I have to say.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yes, Spinny, because we're all entertained in the exact same way. Nobody here wants to read descriptions, or watch cutscenes, or God forbid try to follow a plot through all these missions - no, we all just want to fight things that are trying to kill us. Being a superhero is all about beating stuff up and being beaten up, after all, not about finding goals and trying to accomplish them. Plotlines and adventures are boring, unless you're fighting for your life and a big monetary reward, right?
I think I've had this particular argument long enough, though. It's apparent that some folks are more interested in constructing strawmen than actually reading what I have to say.
But I don't understand, you just said you want easy content that doesn't require any thought or skill / experience and yet you say this. Am I missing something here?
But I don't understand, you just said you want easy content that doesn't require any thought or skill / experience and yet you say this. Am I missing something here?
No, that is not what I said. However, to reiterate, I'm done trying to discuss matters with people who want to build strawmen and fight them. You don't need me here for that.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yes, Spinny, because we're all entertained in the exact same way.
Where did I say that we're all entertained in the same way? Where did I even begin to imply it? Where did I even begin to imply that being entertained in one way is more important than any other way? Where did anyone even begin to imply that?
It seems you're still obsessed with the idea that I or anyone else is trying to make the entire game be one particular way, even though there is no evidence to support that.
Nobody here wants to read descriptions, or watch cutscenes, or God forbid try to follow a plot through all these missions - no, we all just want to fight things that are trying to kill us.
At which point did I or anyone say anything against reading descriptions, watching cutscenes, or following a plot? At which point did anyone even come close to implying that these are things that should be removed or de-emphasised?
What makes you think that what I qouted there is even a part of this conversation? How is it related to a conversation about challenge and difficulty at all?
Being a superhero is all about beating stuff up and being beaten up, after all, not about finding goals and trying to accomplish them.
Again, who said that being a superhero is all about beating stuff up and being beaten up? Who? I'd say I would wait until you produced an example of anyone who said that the game should exclusively be focused around combat and completely remove all other elements, but I don't feel like waiting until the end of time for you to find something that doesn't exist (or more likely, watch you once again just avoid answering).
It's interesting you mention goals and trying to achieve them though, because that's exactly what me and all the other people asking for challenge are actually asking for. You're the one saying "No, those goals are too hard to achieve, don't add them". What satisfaction is there in achieving a goal that is handed to you and everyone else on a silver platter? Hey, I can figure out how to put a square block into a square hole, but that doesn't mean I find it a satisfying achievement. On the other hand, just about anyone can achieve putting a basketball through a hoop, but it's still satisfying because at least I had to do something challenging to get it there.
I think I've had this particular argument long enough, though. It's apparent that some folks are more interested in constructing strawmen than actually reading what I have to say.
The irony Jon. The sheer, ridiculous irony that you would talk about strawman after you have done nothing but produce posts filled with nothing but strawman arguments in this thread.
Do you understand that all your claims that the people asking for challenge are actually asking for "wow raids, no more plot, no more stories, etc" is complete and utter strawman?
If I hadn't seen you say these things several times in the past already, I would think you're doing some sort of parody, but I'm more inclined to think this is the text based version of someone clamping their hands over their ears, shutting their eyes and loudly yelling "LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU".
CHALLENGE: Try to find any part of this post where I say the entire game should be made more challenging. If you can do it without leaning heavily on interpretation (i.e. you can quote where I said it without any explanation needed for why that is what I'm saying) I'll give you my hoverbike.
No, that is not what I said. However, to reiterate, I'm done trying to discuss matters with people who want to build strawmen and fight them. You don't need me here for that.
Oh I wasn't talking about what you just said then. I was talking about what you said earlier.
But really? Don't get too angry and start insulting everyone now, we're discussing things towards an endless goal on the small chance cryptic north may take a look at some of it and think about their views on this. Getting angry at people just because they disagree with you even though their opinion wont really cause the action to happen isn't the best way to do things when in the discussion section. <.<
oh look who showed up, its the life of the party! :rolleyes::rolleyes:
wow gradii... you made her mad enough that she actually followed you out of the hero games section. I am honestly impressed, you must have really done a number on her. Or maybe it's cause no one is paying attention to her in that section anymore and she's desperate for the attentions
Comments
Considering there is a very sizable(read: large) portion of the EVE community that not only encourages new players but actually embraces their "cute newbies", I'm inclined to think you're just parroting what you've heard about it from other people.
HighSec space is carebears and NullSec is pretty easy going.
I'm not arguing for either, I'm trolling people who don't want the difficulty to be increased. I do think the game should provide suitable challenge for the target audience, which is not me.
My official stance on difficulty in CO: I'd rather the combat be super fun and wouldn't complain if it became more challenging but ultimately will find my own entertainment within the game. This means that the difficulty of CO doesn't actually matter to me because that's not why I'm here.
As long as people flip out and tell those who do want a challenge to "GTFO elitist scum", I will continue to mock and play devil's advocate.
Does that answer your question?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
And I want to be able to solo almost everything because I have two autistic children (who, when they need something, need it now), and am also helping to care for an Iraq vet with severe PTSD issues who might need talking down at any moment, and a woman with severe chronic depression who might also need talking down at any moment (or might need some help with a hypoglycemic crash, as her pancreas is mostly for decoration, or might need a lidocaine patch to help deal with her fibromyalgia). It wouldn't be very fair to you, would it, to make you stop in the middle of, say, Mal Zver for about ten minutes or so while I go take care of a personal emergency?
It's one of the reasons I gave up on WoW - even if I had been able to find someone willing to help me learn how to do those teamed dungeons, which in a population of over 11 million at the time I have to concede might have been a possibility (although not one I had ever experimentally verified), we still would have been forced to stop for a few minutes every so often, leaving the team to cool their heels or leave me behind (and their instances, unlike ours, repopulate over time).
It's great that you don't have personal responsibilities that might take precedence over the game (since I assume you wouldn't want to leave folks hanging either). More power to you. But I, and I presume others here, do have such responsibilities. I play games as an escape from them, not as an extension of them.
And before the seemingly-inevitable cry of "just make sure you have a block of time set aside!" arises, as it has before, I'd just like to remind you of the fact that my responsibilities all have to do with people with whom I live (and without whom I probably couldn't, and that's not just hyperbole). The only way I could "set aside a block of time" would be to wait until everyone else was asleep - and I have to sleep sometime too!
My apologies if this was TMI for anyone, but I'm a high-functioning autistic myself, and thus have little sense of personal boundaries - and you did ask...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I mean the game is fun as it is right now.. playign an AT without nemesis gear at lowlevels is fairly hard due to you dont have shield from the start and not all ATs have good Aoes...
And now dont say "then go team up" because some peopel prefer to play alone because they can decide the speed of their actions or like to go AFK between events and so on...
i for example team up very rarely, only for nemcom... but in open world and normal instances i like to be for myself, i can stop killing, doing screens , get myself a drink and yeah... whiel when im with others its either me who has to wait for loading times or AFKers or vice versa...
also , some people join this game alone.. they dont know anyone they just play the game .. if you make the game any harder they will be forced to beg in zone chat for help...
and not everyone wants to help also.. i mean i have 5 lvl 40 chars... all i do is nemcon and nemsis missions because i already ran all the content available...if i onyl think about doing lowlevel mission i need to vomit becuase of the cutscenes that are not skip'able...
that being said i dont think we need a harder difficulity
And who the heck is asking for the game to be turned into anything even resembling a job? Where are these fictional posts that you're referencing with this comment?
I expect once again for you to avoid this question entirely of course, because I know that no one is asking for this, meaning that neither you, nor anyone else, can provide the aformentioned posts that you are referencing.
And where do you see anyone saying "Hey, make it so that playing this game takes more than two hours" ?
Again, where do you see anyone saying the entire game needs to be turned into forced group content?
You do realize that you're playing Champions Online and not WoW right? This isn't a trinity game, meaning if a member of the group has to go afk, the rest of the team can just keep going; and nobody is asking for that to change (except for like 1 person who I've seen actually asking for the game to become trinity focused, but they don't actually show up much here on the forums).
I left WoW for the same reasons... that's why it sounds so daft to me when you accuse me of wanting to turn CO into WoW. You starting to get that?
It's great that you want to make assumptions about people whom you know nothing about. I'm not surprised, since each one of my responses in this post seem to be about pointing out how you're making false assumptions about other people.
My life is my own business, but when it comes to video games I prefer the ones where I can log off the second I don't feel like playing anymore and have it not ruin anyone else's good time, because that just makes sense to me. Fact is, the game doesn't have to be tuned to be playable by a drunk person watching youtube videos with their browser covering most of the game window for that preference to be a possibility.
There you go with the assumptions again. Whatever crystal ball you're looking into to figure out what someone is going to type before they type it? Sorry pal, it's broken. One of the reasons I dropped WoW was because I hated having to schedule my time around the game. The day I quit, it was because I was out fishing with my buddies, and I realized that I had to leave or I would be late for a raid... I made my decision about "scheduling for video games" that day by casting my reel and catching a 22 pounder.
Again, where do you see anyone demanding that the game be turned into something that we have to schedule our lives around? That crystal ball again?
Seems to me you need to do a bit more asking. Like asking other people what their actual opinions are, and what they're actually asking be done to the game, rather than just outright assuming everyone is trying to turn CO into Raidcraft. You seem to think you're fighting the "Legion Of Turn CO Into WoW"... you seem to think that wanting more challenge is somehow synonymous with "wants the game to be trinity raid based and require heavy time investment and scheduling"... even though there's nothing actually being written that backs up either of those beliefs.
Throw out your crystal ball Jon, it's broke.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You haven't played games that are both challenging and casual friendly then. I have, that's why I know that higher challenge doesn't automatically mean raid schedules.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Okay not being serious, just wanted to type something like the "you never get content because CO players complain always ever with no gratefulosity" gibberish crowd types.
No, wait. I wanna be contrarian. And be included! That is the reason. It's the customers fault. Always has been, I've just been too blind to see it.
I had much more I wanted to say, but my winged mini unicorn just got out of it's cage and is gonna break something at this rate.
Difficulty SCHMIKICULTY, none of this will make a bit of difference if we DON'T GET NEW CONTENT.
QFT. I particularly don't care about difficulty. I just want new content or even rehashing of the least played content. Imho, no lair, AP, CS or cosmic should be soloable by anybody just by the reasoning that is group content. Enrage timers and adds handling are a way other games try to keep group content only for groups.
I don't see a point in a soloable lair. Lairs in their current state can already be solo'ed on normal difficulty and you don't need a top-of-the-line FOTM build for that.
They just need to do something about Elite difficulty and how it affects the kind of mobs being spawned in the lairs.
The point being you wouldn't need to team with morons. Have you ever tried to do the mirror puzzles with idiots when running big T's temple?
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yes, I have run TT with our SG.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Legendary.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The only times I bring my toons solo into lairs are when I'm testing for survivability on my builds.
Adventure packs and Comic series on the other hand have more replay value, they are soloable and should remain so. You can still enjoy them in a team or by yourself if you can't find one.
I do not care for content to become tedious over enjoyable with difficulty increases. Partly because I do not favour large area range AOEs or high DPS range powers. Melee is my bias and soloing content on elite is still an acceptable pace for me.
First I have to say, if you can't get jokes and hate sarcasm then foxi probably isn't your cuppa tea. Just saying the sarcasm here is nothing in comparison to their PvP sarcasm.
If you have played LoL this is something you may have seen, but I think it sort of sums up one of the arguments people are having. Some people are saying 'if you don't like what I want the game to be like then the game shouold tell you this:'
No, no, no! We don't want to be telling people to play a new game, we want to be making CO as versatile as it can be so it can be a great game for all types of people. This means there should be plenty of easy content for people to sit around afk in. There should be content hard where supporting players / tanks can feel of use. There should be areas for people to RP freely. There should be PvP maps that actually don't kick half the people every single time. We should have content that is hard enough for theory crafters to spend a week on a build just to attempt it.
We are a pretty small community, but we have lots of people with lots of different ideas about what makes a game great. We don't want to be turning players away, we want to be accepting every type of gamer and giving them something to do while they are here.
Also whats with all the Asian girls being used as avatars?
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
We've got to change that.
What the ****?!
No! 100% disagree.
Look DaZee... What is the point in playing a Massive Multiplayer Online game if all you want to do is solo everything?
That's what single player games are made for! And there's FAR better single player games than Champions Online out there.
Your logic is seriously flawed, as is anyone who agrees with that statement. This is not a single player game, it's a MMO. I never thought I'd have to actually write that, seems so obvious, but there you go.
Smackwell kind of owned you on this point DaZee, sorry. Smackwell is corect, the game used to be much more challenging and it's been make into a cakewalk to make it more "archetype friendly".
DaZee, you haven't been here long enough to know what it was like before, by your own admission of when you started. I've lost contact with a TON of people on my friends list (like at least 75% of my gigantic friends list) due to the game being completely changed around more than once in combination with there being no lasting PvE challenge to interest them. That's a pretty disgustingly high number of people either getting fed up with Cryptic's antics and/or getting bored. There's times I even wonder why I'm still here myself, as I've done every bit of content in the game at least once on the hardest difficulty and beat it all. My main character has every inch of every zone explored, and a vast number of perk points. If it were not for friends, love for my characters, and the joy of creating builds and helping other players in teamplay, I'd have left long ago.
Which brings up a good point. I want to see an emphasis on teamplay because it offers a variety in combat that playing alone just doesn't bring. And if you truly can't see the fun in teamwork, then why the heck are you playing a MMO?! No really, I don't mean offense by that. I feel you'd be much happier playing an awesome single player. Especially ones like Gary's Mod, Skyrim, or even Minecraft where there are countless source code mods available for download that can let your imagination really go free.
Nothing more to strive for turns into people getting bored turns into people no longer being active or logging in to play. Mark my words on this. I've seen it, still seeing it, and will see it happen.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
I am prettiest princess.
Sticking with the thread, the difficulty needs a boot in the arse in terms of AI. I'd like to see goons get new powers as you move up the difficulty, like if a New Purple Gang guy pulls out a rocket launcher rather than a shotgun or a VIPER power armour suddenly starts using Fire All Weapons on Elite. Just little additions to the mobs in instances so they at least seem like a threat rather than cannon fodder.
As far as cosmics go, I think they're fine as they are. Maybe a little bit of a nerf, but nothing that would make them soloable by absolutely everyone. The challenge from those guys are supposed to be from the fact you need those extra heroes to help you with something you can't handle alone.
I would guess that a sizable majority of CO's population doesn't play the game because it's an MMO, but because it's a superhero game with incredible customization options. The fact that it's an MMO (and the first 'M' is charitable in CO's case) is just something many people put up with in order to create their own superheroes.
I realize I point this out at the risk of being judged as "flawed". But the massively multiplayer part of CO is way, way, way down on the list of things that appeal to me about this game. Judging by the hours you see some people spend just trying to get 5 people together to run content, I would be shocked if I'm the only one who feels this way.
So you're telling me that people have to put up with the fact others can see their super heroes and they can talk to others / play the game with others? Oh, that's certainly the worst part about CO.
I think most people actually use CO as a 'chat room' of sorts although with 3D graphics and the ability to totally customize yourself. I would never really do much solo, I would much prefer to duo things. I think most of the time I spend in the game is spent making costumes / building funny builds that are still worth while using / standing around in ren cen chatting to people. The fact CO is a multiplayer game is the entire point in the game. The fact that everyone in the game makes something totally uniquely 'them' is simply amazing.
Now this is sort of gone away from the argument about if content is too easy or just right. Frankly I am still calling out for hardmode versions of all the current content, that would mean all the level 1-39 stuff which is pretty cool and made so a group of players can have fun doing it would be made as hard level 40 content. This would give us so much more to do especially if we got something out of it although I really don't care about that.
If I do content in the game I do it for fun, I have everything I ever wanted in the game apart from a RAD sphere legacy device which I was like one or two missions away from getting when I came back to the game to find out they removed crafting. -_-
But just saying, I should hope that not a sizeable majority prefer to play on their own and not talk to anyone. That would not be good for any online game.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I hate the saying just saying, but just saying: That last bit stung. From my standpoint it feels like that alot (last 2 years). An army of superheroes, but no war.
I see you clearly never PvP'd against some of the people who take it far too seriously. ;D
We've had a few wars.
Problem is that the PvP is done as such instead of people use theme builds both SG's find what they believe to be the optimum build and create an army of clones. However both SG's have different builds if you are in that SG you have their version of the FOTM. (and yes we do actually get some people in PvP who name themselves as a villain who does villainous things)
That's a different story. I suppose in PvE there is no true global goal to save the world.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I'd rather CO have a focus instead of trying to appeal to ever gamer ever. CO should do what it does well and it doesn't. The game is full of half finished stuff because the devs kept jumping on the next cool thing. There is nothing wrong with a game focusing on a certain type of player. That's how you attract people.
Being super solo friendly is a trend in many MMOs that's been around for years. The only things that have largely remained group only are raids and dungeons. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if many people expected all MMOs to be mostly solo events.
I can't see how anyone thinks there is any challenge in CO. Characters are so powerful that everything is trivialized. Sadly, there isn't the option to do awesome dumb stuff instead. (Haymakers causing mobs to disintegrate. Uppercuts blasting mobs into the sun. SMGs causing bloodsplosions.)
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I've never found where the "Required To Group" is hidden in MMORPG but others must be seeing it.
Advanced (Cant remember actual name at the momemt): Should use the Very Hard buff
Hard: Should make all mobs their alert "Tough!" versions
Very Hard: Should add the very Elite buff to the "Tough!" alert mobs (Minus the perception buff)
Elite: Should have all "Tough!" mobs with the Elite buff, and you should be automatically set to 5x players by default. Enemies get 5 levels for every -Actual- player added to the team, beyond the first.
Ta da!
(Short for Dun ta da Dun!)
Cant be Arsed: Instantly get to level 40 by making Grond jokes in zone.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Nah see; this, this should be hard-moded. 1 joke = 1 EXP. You level to 40 by making, what; 16 million jokes? Now that is something deserving of a title even. : )
Edit: ...it even encourages the use of a social feature of the game.
You Grond be killing me...
Oh also to the people who hate foxi for being sarcastic, this is probably something he would do: http://youtu.be/qL9k4DcoCXQ?t=24s
The problem is it's all well and good to make a way to make content harder. The problem is rewards is a big thing for some people, also I've already done all the level 40 content so much it sort of gets repetitive. Making that content harder isn't going to do a great deal for me personally. What I would suggest as a better thing is to make a sort of elite mode that makes everything set for a level 40 elite mode. For example you can go into an instance and level everything up to 40 which will allow you to do all that old content again without you just speeding through it thinking about how pointless it is.
FYI I'm never saying anything about forced group, I'm talking about having a point in grouping. If there is no point in grouping up with friends then I don't really even see a point in doing the content at all unless I'm actually going to find it fun.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
With CO when you learn how to build properly you literally build for any possible threat....and that doesn't factor to what ever gizmos you pick up over the years. The problem is we are all Batman here :I
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The funny thing is your team probably wasn't even fully min maxed cheese DPS. :O More like basic team of random people.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Nah its was the Conquer big guns plus one of SPECTERS best players. Total min/maxed whitewash with added backups.
BACKUPS! BACKUPS EVERYWHERE!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
However, I do have a problem with content being boring, wether that content is in an alert, in a comic series, in a lair, or in an open zone.
I get that some of you love that super boring content where you run up to mobs, one shot them, and then rush off to the next group of mobs to one shot them, the whole time the mobs reacting as though they just had their brains removed (a phenomenon that I have been unable to solve no matter how much I gimp my characters)(a phenomenon that I have been unable to solve no matter how much I gimp my characters)(a phenomenon that I have been unable to solve no matter how much I gimp my characters).
However, while leveling my character in an open zone, I'd like to run into some mobs that actually seem like a threat. I don't want to be forced into instances to find something challenging, any more than I want to be forced into a group to participate in challenging content.
Finding another game to play instead of CO isn't an option... it's actually not realistic at all. I already play those other games in addition to CO... so what is it that people are actually even asking me to do when they say "just go play game X"?
CHALLENGE: Try to find any part of this post where I say the entire game should be made more challenging. If you can do it without leaning heavily on interpretation (i.e. you can quote where I said it without any explanation needed for why that is what I'm saying) I'll give you my hoverbike.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It was a bunch of limp wristed tanks and my PA... but yeah, they were all using their cheesy backup devices to prop up their low tier damage output.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I think I've had this particular argument long enough, though. It's apparent that some folks are more interested in constructing strawmen than actually reading what I have to say.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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But I don't understand, you just said you want easy content that doesn't require any thought or skill / experience and yet you say this. Am I missing something here?
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Where did I say that we're all entertained in the same way? Where did I even begin to imply it? Where did I even begin to imply that being entertained in one way is more important than any other way? Where did anyone even begin to imply that?
It seems you're still obsessed with the idea that I or anyone else is trying to make the entire game be one particular way, even though there is no evidence to support that.
At which point did I or anyone say anything against reading descriptions, watching cutscenes, or following a plot? At which point did anyone even come close to implying that these are things that should be removed or de-emphasised?
What makes you think that what I qouted there is even a part of this conversation? How is it related to a conversation about challenge and difficulty at all?
Again, who said that being a superhero is all about beating stuff up and being beaten up? Who? I'd say I would wait until you produced an example of anyone who said that the game should exclusively be focused around combat and completely remove all other elements, but I don't feel like waiting until the end of time for you to find something that doesn't exist (or more likely, watch you once again just avoid answering).
It's interesting you mention goals and trying to achieve them though, because that's exactly what me and all the other people asking for challenge are actually asking for. You're the one saying "No, those goals are too hard to achieve, don't add them". What satisfaction is there in achieving a goal that is handed to you and everyone else on a silver platter? Hey, I can figure out how to put a square block into a square hole, but that doesn't mean I find it a satisfying achievement. On the other hand, just about anyone can achieve putting a basketball through a hoop, but it's still satisfying because at least I had to do something challenging to get it there.
Yet again Jon, who said that? You are in fact the only one who has said anything even close to this.
Are you starting to realize that you are completely fabricating that this is the opinion of the opposition?
The irony Jon. The sheer, ridiculous irony that you would talk about strawman after you have done nothing but produce posts filled with nothing but strawman arguments in this thread.
Do you understand that all your claims that the people asking for challenge are actually asking for "wow raids, no more plot, no more stories, etc" is complete and utter strawman?
If I hadn't seen you say these things several times in the past already, I would think you're doing some sort of parody, but I'm more inclined to think this is the text based version of someone clamping their hands over their ears, shutting their eyes and loudly yelling "LA LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU".
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Challenge Accepted. Next. :cool:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
lol, nice one.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Oh I wasn't talking about what you just said then. I was talking about what you said earlier.
But really? Don't get too angry and start insulting everyone now, we're discussing things towards an endless goal on the small chance cryptic north may take a look at some of it and think about their views on this. Getting angry at people just because they disagree with you even though their opinion wont really cause the action to happen isn't the best way to do things when in the discussion section. <.<
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
wow gradii... you made her mad enough that she actually followed you out of the hero games section. I am honestly impressed, you must have really done a number on her.
Or maybe it's cause no one is paying attention to her in that section anymore and she's desperate for the attentions
My super cool CC build and how to use it.