And how popular were more group oriented adventure packs/comis issues in the end? Before On Alert?
Hardly. Resistance was farmed so it was Freon in Serpent Lantern. All the rest? Not so much.
Alerts and lairs are exactly fine as group content. They have right length and right pacing. Grouping for them and playing is not an inconvenience.
Especially the only bits of story available in CO should not be unsoloable. Otherwise chances are that you want to see what story this adventure pack has, but the rest of your group wants only to burn throught it as fas as it is possible. In the end you are either missing the story, or you are slowing everyone else. It's a bad solution.
From developer point of view there is little reason in putting any time and resources into something rotting largely unused, as AP/CS were before.
Finding humor in people preferring to solo in a MMO is putting others down? *shrugs*
Why should the game allow you to solo as much as you want? It's an MMO, if it should be doing anything, it's having players grouping up to face threats. Otherwise, you should be playing a single player game.
I hate to break it to you (well not really), but your opinion about how you'd like the game to be is just as selfish as mine. Neither of our opinions is right or wrong.
Sadly, many new MMOs are leaning towards being singleplayer games with limited multiplayer interaction... save for PvP.
AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
Finding humor in people preferring to solo in a MMO is putting others down? *shrugs*
Why should the game allow you to solo as much as you want? It's an MMO, if it should be doing anything, it's having players grouping up to face threats. Otherwise, you should be playing a single player game.
I hate to break it to you (well not really), but your opinion about how you'd like the game to be is just as selfish as mine. Neither of our opinions is right or wrong.
Thats because in this forums most people that have wanted team content have use the term " forced teams".
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Thats because in this forums most people that have wanted team content have use the term " forced teams".
Also on these forums people have a tendency of lumping everyone together... as in "Oh, you want more challenging content? Well then I assume you also want no soloable content, forced teaming, a gear treadmill, and forced trinity mechanics, and I'll never listen if you say otherwise".
From developer point of view there is little reason in putting any time and resources into something rotting largely unused, as AP/CS were before.
I always get a kick out of seeing sweeping comments like these.
Do we have some statistical data to prove that APs and CSs were "rotting" and "largely unused" at any time, or to determine exactly how popular they really are over a period of time?
Of course we don't. If there's any convincing argument to be made regarding group-oriented not being feasible for this game, this certainly isn't the way to do it.
"Why should the game allow you to solo as much as you want? It's an MMO, if it should be doing anything, it's having players grouping up to face threats. Otherwise, you should be playing a single player game."
This was actually to make a point. Pretty much a dig at Gradii, how everything should be her way and opposing opinions get snubbed. Opinions like mine, which I should be ashamed to have because they somehow belittle everyone else's game play style. Apparently sarcasm is bad and being rude is totally fine.
I don't know why someone is quoting me and going "bla bla trinity", which has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Hard realities about trinity game play: You should have rolled a healer.
Hey, Overlord vote. Woo! If I win, I promise to get the Mobs to Cardboard Cutouts Act instated. My next mission with be to remove all of the unheroic "normal" mission and replace them with EPIC mission that are at least 200% MORE heroic. Bonus: cookies for everyone!
Finding humor in people preferring to solo in a MMO is putting others down? *shrugs*
Why should the game allow you to solo as much as you want? It's an MMO, if it should be doing anything, it's having players grouping up to face threats. Otherwise, you should be playing a single player game.
I hate to break it to you (well not really), but your opinion about how you'd like the game to be is just as selfish as mine. Neither of our opinions is right or wrong.
Because it's a superhero MMO, not sword & sorcery. Spidey doesn't get help to beat up Doc Oc.
There's also a difference between being able to do it and never doing it with a team. What I may be able to solo, I've done with teams.
There's also a difference between being able to build towards soloing accomplishments and everyone just being able to do it.
I prefer the work to max level, work to get geared up, then see if you have a good combination to pull it all off, way of play.
Heroic for me is overcoming odds and adversity and accomplishing your goals despite that. Heroism should be a struggle. Heroism should be a challenge. That's why I believe that the challenge in this game should be ramped up a bit. Your struggles shouldn't feel like a chore, they should make you feel like you're doing actually something. Your accomplishments should make you feel good about yourself; They should make you feel heroic.
I always get a kick out of seeing sweeping comments like these.
Do we have some statistical data to prove that APs and CSs were "rotting" and "largely unused" at any time, or to determine exactly how popular they really are over a period of time?
Of course we don't. If there's any convincing argument to be made regarding group-oriented not being feasible for this game, this certainly isn't the way to do it.
I wasn't talking to you, so don't interfere. Go fanboying to someone else.
But I don't need statistics and arguing with you to prove what I've seen before On Alert. And it's fact that in the end Cryptic was giving adventure packs for free to have them played.
I could finally end Aftershock only by soloing it, this is hardly popular. And I consider time wasted for LFG at previous attempts just wasted.
Now, go away. Really, understand finally that you are the last member of this forum with who I'd like to argue. Mostly because talking to you is pointless anyway. Now, be gone, or at least away from me.
Poster in question has a long history of nitpicking and being "smart" in her own opinion, as well as being a total waste of time when arguing.
At this point she should be aware of my opinion about her and spare us both needless hostilities.
Just saying.
Poster in question has a long history of nitpicking and being "smart" in her own opinion, as well as being a total waste of time when arguing.
At this point she should be aware of my opinion about her and spare us both needless hostilities.
Just saying.
So addressing a bold assumption about how APs and CSs, are ultimately unpopular as group content, as fact, is "nitpicking" and "fanboying". This is hilarious.
And your defining argument that proves how they're so is a single anecdote on a failed LFG.
Hey if you feel that talking to me is pointless, by all means, avoid responding to me. It doesn't mean I can't address outrageous claims not based on fact.
Heroic for me is overcoming odds and adversity and accomplishing your goals despite that. Heroism should be a struggle. Heroism should be a challenge. That's why I believe that the challenge in this game should be ramped up a bit. Your struggles shouldn't feel like a chore, they should make you feel like you're doing actually something. Your accomplishments should make you feel good about yourself; They should make you feel heroic.
Heroism has nothing to do with challenges. It has to do about standing up for the little guy because in your heart that is the right thing to do. Is getting a promotion heroic? Not really it can be challenging but not heroic.
Remember we're superheroes we're supposed to be able to have a chance against throngs of enemies alone. I don't expect challenge in a custom sandbox game I expect customization. If I was playing a Rambo game where I have nothing but a tooth pick and duct tape to stealthily fight terrorists with then I would expect some sort of challenge. That would be the kind of game I would go for challenge.
They're only nerfing because they're holding off on adding content.
Finding humor in people preferring to solo in a MMO is putting others down? *shrugs*
Why should the game allow you to solo as much as you want? It's an MMO, if it should be doing anything, it's having players grouping up to face threats. Otherwise, you should be playing a single player game.
I hate to break it to you (well not really), but your opinion about how you'd like the game to be is just as selfish as mine. Neither of our opinions is right or wrong.
Of course everything we want against another person is going to be selfish but when there's a way to make everyone get what they want then that is a bit more altruistic isn't it? Stat changes is not the way, it will only make one side be happy the other side not.
So instead of nerfing dodge/avoidance, critical strike rating which we had and settled with for 2 years, how about adding challenging content? I mean Gravitar still exists, add another Rampage, more harder this time. When you nerf our stats that effects everyone. The casual players don't have to do the challenging content.
Or let me guess you want to force casual players to do the challenging content because you're not getting enough queues on it? See that sounds selfish to me. How about you just find some friends that would run it instead? Then you would always have people to run it with. And to do that you would have to be social and build communities that want to do challenging content, because isn't that also part of what a MMO is about? The devs don't have to do the socializing for you. That's really a people issue not something the game should be fixing on because that will upset players that want to solo content.
Some of us just want to pop in and play not look and wait for 4 to 9 people and convince them to do a run for your entire game time. We already have forced teaming called Alerts anyway. What more should the devs do?
I think the game would do well if 'heroic' was more than just a 'challenge level'.
1- Make stories written so you don't feel as if you're just picking up random errands. I'm fine if I start the game fighting common street gangs and regular mooks, but I should be fighting more powerful enemies as my level progresses- and stories/missions appropriate to that. For the record? Killer Robot > Voodoo gator man. The general feeling I get from contacts? "Oh, hey- you're that guy that just took on an entire VIPER nest and saved the world from a potential nuclear holocaust? Help me find my cat."
2- Make the game so that I feel like I'm playing a themed character, rather than a generic guy that just looks and fights different from the last one. I do not feel like I'm being 'heroic', it just feels like a cheap and unfinished series of missions that jump from theme to theme.
3- Give me some missions that require me to team. And reward me for doing exactly that.
I think the game would do well if 'heroic' was more than just a 'challenge level'.
1- Make stories written so you don't feel as if you're just picking up random errands. I'm fine if I start the game fighting common street gangs and regular mooks, but I should be fighting more powerful enemies as my level progresses- and stories/missions appropriate to that. For the record? Killer Robot > Voodoo gator man. The general feeling I get from contacts? "Oh, hey- you're that guy that just took on an entire VIPER nest and saved the world from a potential nuclear holocaust? Help me find my cat."
2- Make the game so that I feel like I'm playing a themed character, rather than a generic guy that just looks and fights different from the last one. I do not feel like I'm being 'heroic', it just feels like a cheap and unfinished series of missions that jump from theme to theme.
3- Give me some missions that require me to team. And reward me for doing exactly that.
At this point asking the devs to make prolonged story mission arcs just seems like wasted effort. They just don't seem to be getting the funding they need to develop such content. Bite-sized alerts and events are all we're going to get until they announce otherwise.
I'm not even sure how they would proceed to make players feel like they're playing "themed" characters. Are we talking about selective mission arcs with threats that are technological or magical in nature for e.g., either of which is in accordance with the character's theme? If that's the case then I don't think they're in any position to do that even if really considered.
Of course everything we want against another person is going to be selfish but when there's a way to make everyone get what they want then that is a bit more altruistic isn't it? Stat changes is not the way, it will only make one side be happy the other side not.
So instead of nerfing dodge/avoidance, critical strike rating which we had and settled with for 2 years, how about adding challenging content? I mean Gravitar still exists, add another Rampage, more harder this time. When you nerf our stats that effects everyone. The casual players don't have to do the challenging content.
Or let me guess you want to force casual players to do the challenging content because you're not getting enough queues on it? See that sounds selfish to me. How about you just find some friends that would run it instead? Then you would always have people to run it with. And to do that you would have to be social and build communities that want to do challenging content, because isn't that also part of what a MMO is about? The devs don't have to do the socializing for you. That's really a people issue not something the game should be fixing on because that will upset players that want to solo content.
Some of us just want to pop in and play not look and wait for 4 to 9 people and convince them to do a run for your entire game time. We already have forced teaming called Alerts anyway. What more should the devs do?
Let me guess you want to force seasoned players to do the easy content because you're fine with queues as they are? See that sounds selfish to me.
Have you even looked at some of the posts some people have made about asking for an increase in difficulty in other ways than just swinging the nerf bat?
I don't think you're addressing the right person with this one Xan. Sterga is in favor of raising mob difficulty across the board. She was commenting sarcastically and actually playing devil's advocate if she followed their logic of nerfing everything on the player side.
And I don't think you know what he's truly talking about when looking at his postings. If everything followed your logic, lower level things would eventually be deemed inexistant because people would not even see them as a threat. That would in term have everyone just walk through a game and brush off everything except for the boss, who for the most part are barely more of a threat than the 'trash' mobs.
Far as this game goes, it allows freedom to create anything and that is what has kept me here so for long after my thirst for pvp in other games ended. It allows in game abilities to have a nice general purpose or a specific niche to fit into overall character creations. If we followed your idea of allowing mobs to remain trash, there would not be any point of going and playing missions because it would be very boring for just one fight that may take on average 3-5 minutes. Like it is now.
Everything needs to be scaled more efficiently with the mob levels, scaling to level / power and possible A.I. changes but the last one is a more on a faith basis of the dev team and proper founding when/if CO gets it. So that is why I will not keep my hopes high for this game until it sees better days.
While my opinions stand, I have not logged into the game for about half a year now due to pc issues so I could not give you an in-game opinion of the current changes. But from my past experiences with dodge, it was a healthy 'nerf' for the overall CO community and would open the flood gates for more experimentation.
Instead of building complete dodge/crit builds and killing everything without fear of dying and complaining the game was 'boring', now they have a chance to use items for other stats. Those that are complaining right now are a vocal minority who did what I formerly stated and I say let them. Soon it will blow over, they will adapt or leave and CO will go back into it's silent lull of day by day shenanigans.
But mobs do need to be increased at all levels, its simply sad when elite does not do anything but serve as a small breeze. And casuals need to learn to adjust accordingly (ask for help if you need to) or find a new game to play. When I started out in late December 2011 I could and still can after on alert solo all lower level bosses when running on a freshly made character by myself on elite, though sometimes it takes 2-3 tries when out of position.
One of the big reasons WoW ascended to the MMO throne was because it was the first MMO where players could solo their way to lvl 50 if they so wanted.
Compulsory teaming is alright for top-tier rewards, but for anything else, it should be an option. Some people have more things to do in life that waiting for a team in order to complete every other mission. Blizzard showed everyone how punishing adults for having lives outside the game is a thing of the past.
Unfortunately, Champions is within low-to-mid power levels, so whatever nerfs Cryptic hits the game with would still be par for the course. Still, one too many nerfs and Freeform would lose all purpose. Forced trinity would mean only a handful of builds would be actually valid. Killing freeform would kill CO.
Comments
I don't like content that is stupidly easy.
Content does not have to be stupidly easy to be soloable.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hardly. Resistance was farmed so it was Freon in Serpent Lantern. All the rest? Not so much.
Alerts and lairs are exactly fine as group content. They have right length and right pacing. Grouping for them and playing is not an inconvenience.
Especially the only bits of story available in CO should not be unsoloable. Otherwise chances are that you want to see what story this adventure pack has, but the rest of your group wants only to burn throught it as fas as it is possible. In the end you are either missing the story, or you are slowing everyone else. It's a bad solution.
From developer point of view there is little reason in putting any time and resources into something rotting largely unused, as AP/CS were before.
Sadly, many new MMOs are leaning towards being singleplayer games with limited multiplayer interaction... save for PvP.
Thats because in this forums most people that have wanted team content have use the term " forced teams".
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Also on these forums people have a tendency of lumping everyone together... as in "Oh, you want more challenging content? Well then I assume you also want no soloable content, forced teaming, a gear treadmill, and forced trinity mechanics, and I'll never listen if you say otherwise".
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I always get a kick out of seeing sweeping comments like these.
Do we have some statistical data to prove that APs and CSs were "rotting" and "largely unused" at any time, or to determine exactly how popular they really are over a period of time?
Of course we don't. If there's any convincing argument to be made regarding group-oriented not being feasible for this game, this certainly isn't the way to do it.
This was actually to make a point. Pretty much a dig at Gradii, how everything should be her way and opposing opinions get snubbed. Opinions like mine, which I should be ashamed to have because they somehow belittle everyone else's game play style. Apparently sarcasm is bad and being rude is totally fine.
I don't know why someone is quoting me and going "bla bla trinity", which has nothing to do with what I was talking about. Hard realities about trinity game play: You should have rolled a healer.
Hey, Overlord vote. Woo! If I win, I promise to get the Mobs to Cardboard Cutouts Act instated. My next mission with be to remove all of the unheroic "normal" mission and replace them with EPIC mission that are at least 200% MORE heroic. Bonus: cookies for everyone!
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Because it's a superhero MMO, not sword & sorcery. Spidey doesn't get help to beat up Doc Oc.
There's also a difference between being able to do it and never doing it with a team. What I may be able to solo, I've done with teams.
There's also a difference between being able to build towards soloing accomplishments and everyone just being able to do it.
I prefer the work to max level, work to get geared up, then see if you have a good combination to pull it all off, way of play.
I wasn't talking to you, so don't interfere. Go fanboying to someone else.
But I don't need statistics and arguing with you to prove what I've seen before On Alert. And it's fact that in the end Cryptic was giving adventure packs for free to have them played.
I could finally end Aftershock only by soloing it, this is hardly popular. And I consider time wasted for LFG at previous attempts just wasted.
Now, go away. Really, understand finally that you are the last member of this forum with who I'd like to argue. Mostly because talking to you is pointless anyway. Now, be gone, or at least away from me.
When was this?
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Hi, welcome to a public forum.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Poster in question has a long history of nitpicking and being "smart" in her own opinion, as well as being a total waste of time when arguing.
At this point she should be aware of my opinion about her and spare us both needless hostilities.
Just saying.
So addressing a bold assumption about how APs and CSs, are ultimately unpopular as group content, as fact, is "nitpicking" and "fanboying". This is hilarious.
And your defining argument that proves how they're so is a single anecdote on a failed LFG.
Hey if you feel that talking to me is pointless, by all means, avoid responding to me. It doesn't mean I can't address outrageous claims not based on fact.
As good private opinion as any.
Heroism has nothing to do with challenges. It has to do about standing up for the little guy because in your heart that is the right thing to do. Is getting a promotion heroic? Not really it can be challenging but not heroic.
Remember we're superheroes we're supposed to be able to have a chance against throngs of enemies alone. I don't expect challenge in a custom sandbox game I expect customization. If I was playing a Rambo game where I have nothing but a tooth pick and duct tape to stealthily fight terrorists with then I would expect some sort of challenge. That would be the kind of game I would go for challenge.
They're only nerfing because they're holding off on adding content.
Of course everything we want against another person is going to be selfish but when there's a way to make everyone get what they want then that is a bit more altruistic isn't it? Stat changes is not the way, it will only make one side be happy the other side not.
So instead of nerfing dodge/avoidance, critical strike rating which we had and settled with for 2 years, how about adding challenging content? I mean Gravitar still exists, add another Rampage, more harder this time. When you nerf our stats that effects everyone. The casual players don't have to do the challenging content.
Or let me guess you want to force casual players to do the challenging content because you're not getting enough queues on it? See that sounds selfish to me. How about you just find some friends that would run it instead? Then you would always have people to run it with. And to do that you would have to be social and build communities that want to do challenging content, because isn't that also part of what a MMO is about? The devs don't have to do the socializing for you. That's really a people issue not something the game should be fixing on because that will upset players that want to solo content.
Some of us just want to pop in and play not look and wait for 4 to 9 people and convince them to do a run for your entire game time. We already have forced teaming called Alerts anyway. What more should the devs do?
1- Make stories written so you don't feel as if you're just picking up random errands. I'm fine if I start the game fighting common street gangs and regular mooks, but I should be fighting more powerful enemies as my level progresses- and stories/missions appropriate to that. For the record? Killer Robot > Voodoo gator man. The general feeling I get from contacts? "Oh, hey- you're that guy that just took on an entire VIPER nest and saved the world from a potential nuclear holocaust? Help me find my cat."
2- Make the game so that I feel like I'm playing a themed character, rather than a generic guy that just looks and fights different from the last one. I do not feel like I'm being 'heroic', it just feels like a cheap and unfinished series of missions that jump from theme to theme.
3- Give me some missions that require me to team. And reward me for doing exactly that.
At this point asking the devs to make prolonged story mission arcs just seems like wasted effort. They just don't seem to be getting the funding they need to develop such content. Bite-sized alerts and events are all we're going to get until they announce otherwise.
I'm not even sure how they would proceed to make players feel like they're playing "themed" characters. Are we talking about selective mission arcs with threats that are technological or magical in nature for e.g., either of which is in accordance with the character's theme? If that's the case then I don't think they're in any position to do that even if really considered.
Let me guess you want to force seasoned players to do the easy content because you're fine with queues as they are? See that sounds selfish to me.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I don't think you're addressing the right person with this one Xan. Sterga is in favor of raising mob difficulty across the board. She was commenting sarcastically and actually playing devil's advocate if she followed their logic of nerfing everything on the player side.
And I don't think you know what he's truly talking about when looking at his postings. If everything followed your logic, lower level things would eventually be deemed inexistant because people would not even see them as a threat. That would in term have everyone just walk through a game and brush off everything except for the boss, who for the most part are barely more of a threat than the 'trash' mobs.
Far as this game goes, it allows freedom to create anything and that is what has kept me here so for long after my thirst for pvp in other games ended. It allows in game abilities to have a nice general purpose or a specific niche to fit into overall character creations. If we followed your idea of allowing mobs to remain trash, there would not be any point of going and playing missions because it would be very boring for just one fight that may take on average 3-5 minutes. Like it is now.
Everything needs to be scaled more efficiently with the mob levels, scaling to level / power and possible A.I. changes but the last one is a more on a faith basis of the dev team and proper founding when/if CO gets it. So that is why I will not keep my hopes high for this game until it sees better days.
While my opinions stand, I have not logged into the game for about half a year now due to pc issues so I could not give you an in-game opinion of the current changes. But from my past experiences with dodge, it was a healthy 'nerf' for the overall CO community and would open the flood gates for more experimentation.
Instead of building complete dodge/crit builds and killing everything without fear of dying and complaining the game was 'boring', now they have a chance to use items for other stats. Those that are complaining right now are a vocal minority who did what I formerly stated and I say let them. Soon it will blow over, they will adapt or leave and CO will go back into it's silent lull of day by day shenanigans.
But mobs do need to be increased at all levels, its simply sad when elite does not do anything but serve as a small breeze. And casuals need to learn to adjust accordingly (ask for help if you need to) or find a new game to play. When I started out in late December 2011 I could and still can after on alert solo all lower level bosses when running on a freshly made character by myself on elite, though sometimes it takes 2-3 tries when out of position.
Compulsory teaming is alright for top-tier rewards, but for anything else, it should be an option. Some people have more things to do in life that waiting for a team in order to complete every other mission. Blizzard showed everyone how punishing adults for having lives outside the game is a thing of the past.
Unfortunately, Champions is within low-to-mid power levels, so whatever nerfs Cryptic hits the game with would still be par for the course. Still, one too many nerfs and Freeform would lose all purpose. Forced trinity would mean only a handful of builds would be actually valid. Killing freeform would kill CO.