If 2 or more people bail out and you're worried about taking forever...why not just leave and re-queue? You don't have stick though it if you think it is a waste of time.
No... what makes sense is to what people want. And this is not what levelers want. An alert that lasts longer? No thanks.
It's what I and many other people want when leveling.
So... how do they decide which group gets what they want?
Oh wait... did you think that everyone who's leveling a character had the same opinion as you? lol
Yeah, so they can't do it according to "what people want", so they have to go with what makes more sense and what improves the play experience overall.
Scenario 2 - You are leveling under the new system and using grabs. The alert starts. Half the people are lower than lvl 15. The other bails. You and the other remain two people, who are level 10 and 11 complete the alert. You gain X amount of experience. This scenario required roughly 30 minutes.
Why, under Scenario 2, wouldn't you just leave and reque? You can still do that... you know?
It's what I and many other people want when leveling.
So... how do they decide which group gets what they want?
Oh wait... did you think that everyone who's leveling a character had the same opinion as you? lol
Yeah, so they can't do it according to "what people want", so they have to go with what makes more sense and what improves the play experience overall.
Nobody asked for the switch to begin with. It's something they did in response to people complaining about failing Smash Alerts one too many often. Strange that they could of just given lowbies a buff or something to manage the fights better. People in this forum have stated how grabs can fail the same way if not a more depressing way than Smashes would.
Why, under Scenario 2, wouldn't you just leave and reque? You can still do that... you know?
Over-reacting.
You could, but that wasn't what the person I was quoting described.
His words, not mine:
Now, if a couple of people quit a Grab, it just means it's going to take longer - no more guaranteed fails just because someone else doesn't like your face (or the number underneath your face).
If 2 or more people bail out and you're worried about taking forever...why not just leave and re-queue? You don't have stick though it if you think it is a waste of time.
Same exact thing applied for smash alerts. Except you might not be 10 minutes in when half the people bailed like you could be on grabs.
Nobody asked for the switch to begin with. It's something they did in response to people complaining about failing Smash Alerts one too many often. Strange that they could of just given lowbies a buff or something to manage the fights better. People in this forum have stated how grabs can fail the same way if not a more depressing way than Smashes would.
Exactly.
At least when a smash fails, you have only wasted 2 minutes, tops.
After fighting halfway through a Museum Heist grab alert, and 2-3 bail...how is that not a "fail"??
The remaining 2 characters, especially if they are lowbies, will have no chance of finishing the alert, and if they do...it is going to take like 45 minutes!!
The people that are so worried that a lowbie might cause them to fail alerts are not going to get what they want...because in the end, they might not "fail", but they will spend 5x more time doing the same thing. Which is worse than a fail in a 2 min alert.
Has anyone who is concerned about a possible change in the length of time it will take to level taken the time to test out two things?
1) Just how long will it take you on average to run through a grab since that is what people seem to be keyed in on.
2) Are XP alerts really the fastest method to level in the game anyway?
A lot of the concern is coming from people who already level far slower than I do from what I gather so I'm trying to get some perspective on what other people are experiencing and why this is a thing.
All things considered, how long was it actually taking you folks to level a character 1-40 before today's patch?
Short of exploits or special tools, xp alerts have been the fastest way to level.
Farming Colossi would have been up there but they disabled that a long time ago.
Killing Destroids in resistance can level at a decent rate assuming one can kill them, usually in a vehicle if leveling.
A certain SL mission can be repeated.
Most open world missions require some running around, though you can work on multiple oens at once. Alerts don't require you to move and as long as they're consistently sucessful are the most efficient way, as they provide more xp than a typical mission and are done faster. 3 things kill smash efficiency, failures, lack of smashes, queue times. As long as they aren't an issue, you're hard-pressed to find any way of leveling faster.
Nobody asked for the switch to begin with. It's something they did in response to people complaining about failing Smash Alerts one too many often. Strange that they could of just given lowbies a buff or something to manage the fights better. People in this forum have stated how grabs can fail the same way if not a more depressing way than Smashes would.
Nobody even thought to ask for it. This is actually one of those instances where the devs have proven that they can have better ideas than we can even think of. Maybe this is why they get paychecks for what they do, and we get nothing for our constant complaining and bickering on the forums.
Yes, they could have done some complicated hard-to-balance thing like giving lowbies a buff or some other even more convoluted thing........ or they could just switch the rewards. Turns out, simple but effective is the hot new thing at Cryptic North.
A grab alert takes longer (in some cases, a LOT longer), and can still fail.
How does that work better for lowbies?
It seems like the only people it will work better for are mid-to-high level characters that don't want lowbies in their alerts.
And as others pointed out above, those that don't want to do alerts with lowbies can simply leave and re-queue...just like they are going to do with grabs.
So again...how does this work better for low level characters exactly??
Better ideas? More like convenient for them ideas.
I don't get how this is supposed to be more convenient for them. When they play the game in their off time on their personal accounts they're on the same server and subject to the same systems the rest of us are.
For all any of us know, it'll be just as much of an inconvenience to them as well. Of course this is all assuming these changes are being made for the singular effort of purposely slowing the leveling progress of the playerbase. An assumption that seems to be born more from player frustration over PTS notes than anything else.
The fact is this, massive numbers of players quit at low and mid levels..
There's no point in letting all these 'gonna quit anyways' into the bonus XP alerts.
Players should be rewarded for sticking around for the next phase of their leveling experience instead of having it all thrown in their face when they are not ready, not welcome and not interested.
Queues are taking longer but blood moon might whats causing delays.
Unless everyone's at the tailor using the new tail pump.
The fact is this, massive numbers of players quit at low and mid levels..
There's no point in letting all these 'gonna quit anyways' into the bonus XP alerts.
Players should be rewarded for sticking around for the next phase of their leveling experience instead of having it all thrown in their face when they are not ready, not welcome and not interested.
Queues are taking longer but blood moon might whats causing delays.
Unless everyone's at the tailor using the new tail pump.
It's not even after 5pm EDT. PDT and MDT are still in school and CDT is likely getting off the bus.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
A grab alert takes longer (in some cases, a LOT longer), and can still fail.
How does that work better for lowbies?
It seems like the only people it will work better for are mid-to-high level characters that don't want lowbies in their alerts.
And as others pointed out above, those that don't want to do alerts with lowbies can simply leave and re-queue...just like they are going to do with grabs.
So again...how does this work better for low level characters exactly??
Folks no longer have a reason to not want to do XP alerts with lowbies... since there's no timer. That's one way it works better out for lowbies... those people are going to stay now because lowbies are no longer a guarantee of failure for high level players. So, hey look, it works out for low, mid, and high level players.
You're going to be able to figure out how long a Grab alert is going to take within the first minute. If by the end of that first minute it looks like the alert is going to take too long for your taste, then leave it. If you stay past that point, it's your own fault.
And yes, Grab alerts in general take slightly longer than Smash alerts. However, neither you nor anyone else has yet to give a reason for why that's such a big concern. So they're making you play that part of the video game a little longer to get your video game reward in your video game. Face it, if you're playing video games then you have time to spare.
You've given plenty of reasons for why you want to get to level 40 as fast as possible... but not a single reason for why you have to, or why it's negatively affecting your experience. If you're willing to admit that you take out your stop watch and time everything you do in game, then count up all the rewards you got, then calculate the exact reward per second and then consciously decide how much you enjoyed all the stuff you already did based on that number, then you'll have some ground to stand on.
Other than that, I don't really see why getting to level 40 a day later than you did before is bad... at all. Are you worried you're going to die a day before that or something?
Better ideas? More like convenient for them ideas.
Yes, sensible ideas are often more convenient than bad ideas, that's part of what makes them good ideas. Does an idea being more complicated and difficult to implement somehow make it better in your world view?
And yes, Grab alerts in general take slightly longer than Smash alerts.
Here are some numbers after testing with a lvl 20 character.
1st Grab - Bank Robbery - mid level team - 9:34
2nd Grab - Bank Robbery - mid level team - 9:11
3rd Grab - Museum Heist - mixed team - 13:40
4th Grab - Museum Heist - mixed/mid level team - 12:49
5th Grab - Fighting City Hall - mid level team - 8:15
6th Grab - Fighting City Hall - mixed team - 9:03
Total time: 54:12 ... for the exact same amount of XP I could have gotten in roughly 12 minutes.
That is not "slightly" longer. It is FIVE TIMES longer.
If you are going to advocate for these changes, you might want to actually have some idea of what you are talking about before spouting off nonsense in an attempt to minimize their impact.
The fact is this, massive numbers of players quit at low and mid levels..
There's no point in letting all these 'gonna quit anyways' into the bonus XP alerts.
Players should be rewarded for sticking around for the next phase of their leveling experience instead of having it all thrown in their face when they are not ready, not welcome and not interested.
You do understand that you are going to have to complete grabs for XP as well...right?? It isn't like they level gated smash alerts to 30 and those still give XP.
These changes do not keep low level players (most of which are likely alt characters being played by people with MULTIPLE level 40 characters...some with lifetime subs) out of the XP alerts, it just makes it so that it takes EVERYONE five times longer than it did to level up via alerts.
Well, Hockey, my own experience is that I ran three Grabs today (two Fighting City Hall, one Bank Robbery). The first Grab went slowly, until all the players cottoned onto the idea of staying together and all attacking the same mobs at once; then things sped up considerably. I believe that one took a total of about 5 or 6 minutes. The other two finished around 3 minutes. So yeah, maybe the Alert itself isn't your problem...
Edit: Oh, hey, ninja'd by a Goodbye post! Hope you're subbed to SWTOR, because they've got the worst F2P experience I've found yet...
...okay, maybe second worst - the WoW "F2P" won't let you get past lvl 20...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Part of the underlying 'rift' between some people seems to be that most Alerts have an unfair XP advantage over missions, making it unfair to those who don't want to play Alerts.
This specific mentality makes no sense. There is a similar failure in logic from the enjoy-the-journey argument.
How did the existence of faster XP alerts make it unfair for you to do missions?
You could still do the missions. They were not harmed.
Let's follow this logic.
Before: slow missions and fast alerts. You feel it is unfair and missions are penalized.
After: missions are unchanged, alerts are slowed down. Now all of the sudden missions are ok? But missions *didn't change*.
They were ruined for you because people-who-aren't-you were doing faster alerts? Why did you care?
It would have made perfect sense to say it was unfair if you were arguing for speeding up missions. But the argument to slow down alerts makes no sense.
If you wanted to level slow, and have a "journey", it was already completely in your power to do so. In fact, that is obvious. The only problem you could have had was that you wanted *others* to level slow too.
If you didn't like the fast leveling of alerts... don't do it! The missions were right there for you! You get to decide for yourself, not for others.
And I'll go even further to say how ridiculous it seems to utterly break the theme elements of the mission types.
I'm not a huge role player... but I do like consistency in my fiction and "Grabs" (grabbing the loot) and "Smash" (smashing villains for XP) offering conflicting awards just seems like very little thought was put into it.
It's pretty transparent this was just a measure to stop power leveling.
Now we're grabbing the xp and smashing the villain for resources...it still works...
So I guess if all you like to do is bum around in smash alerts from lvl 6-40 then drop that toon and start up all over again... yeah I guess you're out of luck...
At level 34 I was getting a bubble per Grab where I had been getting 3/4 a bubble in Smashes.
Just dinged 35 so we'll see how those do.
Doesn't feel any worse than waiting for a Smash to come up so far.
edit:
At 35 with 9% bonus xp from Nemesis gear and a Grab buff a 7 minute CIty Hall: Poe gave 90,020 xp and a bubble should be 68k XP so the Grabs are indeed giving more than a bubble at 35.
At 35 with the same bonuses Bank Robbery: Ripper gave 85,971 XP and took 5 min. Still more than a bubble.
Are you guys just counting the completion XP and not the whole Alert?
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Just did one of the new XP alerts, if anyone is interested in a sample size of one.
It was bank heist vs Madstone.
Team levels were 12, 12, 29, 30 (me), and 39. So a nice mix.
We started at 7:25.
The alert is mostly a whole bunch of mooks, what I think other MMOs would call "trash mobs".
It took us 8 minutes to clear through the trash mobs and reach Madstone.
I left the alert at 7:35, so 10 minutes total.
The reward, with all buffs (nemesis items, favor, anniversary, and should be old smash alert) was 65,951. I think it used to be like 80,000ish for me, not certain.
So, meh. Don't think I will enjoy an ~8 minute barrier of trash mobs being added. Will anyone?
The people who said it would only be *slightly* slower... do you still maintain that?
On the other tack, I am very surprised. Somehow making it take longer for a lesser reward did not transform it into a magical heroic personal meaningful "Journey". I still don't feel the XP means something and that I deserve special reverence or something. It just took longer to get.
Worse, even with extra time it took, Rush failed to start playing in the background. Guess I'll put in a ticket for that.
Oh well, I am posting unhappy, so I'll stop.
Have fun and take care everyone.
Part of the underlying 'rift' between some people seems to be that most Alerts have an unfair XP advantage over missions, making it unfair to those who don't want to play Alerts.
This specific mentality makes no sense. There is a similar failure in logic from the enjoy-the-journey argument.
How did the existence of faster XP alerts make it unfair for you to do missions?
You could still do the missions. They were not harmed.
Let's follow this logic.
Before: slow missions and fast alerts. You feel it is unfair and missions are penalized.
After: missions are unchanged, alerts are slowed down. Now all of the sudden missions are ok? But missions *didn't change*.
They were ruined for you because people-who-aren't-you were doing faster alerts? Why did you care?
It would have made perfect sense to say it was unfair if you were arguing for speeding up missions. But the argument to slow down alerts makes no sense.
If you wanted to level slow, and have a "journey", it was already completely in your power to do so. In fact, that is obvious. The only problem you could have had was that you wanted *others* to level slow too.
If you didn't like the fast leveling of alerts... don't do it! The missions were right there for you! You get to decide for yourself, not for others.
Why do you want to control others?
Not sure if you were talking to me or the OP. I don't want to control others. I think control should only be used to handle game breakers. If something doesn't affect me, I'm one step from oblivious to it. They can increase or decrease whatever they want as long as the overall experience improves. If it diminishes, then my desire to continue playing drops, and my desire to pay my monthly also drops.
While I AM concerned with these changes, I'm not expecting them to be horrible.
Wat I'm more concerned with how everybody gets concerned with things that don't really affect them.
Everybody seems to think that THEY know what is best for the game, and everyone is quick to tell us how it SHOULD be. The fact is, it's all really just speculation - much like armchair quarterbacking.
I could also spend 15 long paragraphs telling anyone who'd read what I think the game should be like (and I have) but that doesn't mean my take would be better for the game. I've got more than a quarter century of PC gaming under my belt, and almost as much time in programing and IT. That doesn't mean I know jack about how to make a great game, it just means I have a somewhat educated opinion on the subject. And all the people with their facts and figures can't honestly say they know more than anyone else, but they can all say that they like their own opinion the most :biggrin:
Several people post how they've talked to all these players that are leaving. I meet new excited players almost every day. I know that the key is getting people to stick around as I have, and getting to other players such as myself who willing fork over money each month. I prefer the old subscription method over the F2P system, but that's just not the way anymore I guess. I live with it.
As my earlier post feature Rush lyrics hinted at, I'm not one for changing things unless they are game breaking. I've managed to level up to 40 19 times, each time a bit faster than before, but it's unlikely I'll EVER be able to level a toon as fast as Kenpo does. But I'm not upset that he can go so fast, and I think it'd be pretty cruddy to take away that ability just because I can't. I know that if I put in what he has, I'd likely get similar results.
I don't think that changing XP rates is a good or bad thing, until you factor in the overall experience. It's entirely possible that excluding lowbies will make up for the XP deficit. I know that failed Smash Alerts suck, and I've never had one fail when everyone was over level 25 (that I recall). I won't complain until there's real cause... like a broken power, mission or something of that nature.
For the record, this is the last you folks will hear from me on the subject, as this topic is now a problem for someone else.
There are better ways that I can spend my money than wasting an hour for half a level of XP.
I will check back periodically to see if they change alerts back, until then...I understand they have made some nice additions to SWTOR.
HPX
< wonders why you would bother with this game if you could play SWTOR. I'd have to replace my computer =P, albeit it has needed replacing for years anyway.
And I'll go even further to say how ridiculous it seems to utterly break the theme elements of the mission types.
I'm not a huge role player... but I do like consistency in my fiction and "Grabs" (grabbing the loot) and "Smash" (smashing villains for XP) offering conflicting awards just seems like very little thought was put into it.
It's pretty transparent this was just a measure to stop power leveling.
The theme still fits though. The bad guys in Grabs are still trying to grab the money and run. In smashes, you are still smashing the villains face in. What doesn't fit thematically? Oh wait... were you under the impression that the heroes were the ones going into the bank or museum and grabbing the money? ...wtf? what kind of hero are you? o_O
And um... listen maybe you haven't played other games in a while... but this game still has some pretty blatantly heavy power leveling going on even after these changes. If the devs wanted to stop power leveling, they would have to nerf the hell out of all methods to gain XP in this game, both alerts and missions. CO players are spoiled as hell... and we're still spoiled as hell. You can put your tinfoil hat away on this one.
Simple fact is, the devs have no reason to want to make you level slower, since they gain nothing from doing so. You can kind of tell that by the entire design of the game... i.e. powerleveling heaven. These changes were made because it makes more sense this way. I'm already loving it personally... it's better on my lvl 40s, it's better on my sub-40s. It's just better.
And I'll go even further to say how ridiculous it seems to utterly break the theme elements of the mission types.
I'm not a huge role player... but I do like consistency in my fiction and "Grabs" (grabbing the loot) and "Smash" (smashing villains for XP) offering conflicting awards just seems like very little thought was put into it.
It's pretty transparent this was just a measure to stop power leveling.
If it was an attempt to curtail powerleveling it missed the target by a mile, not that this game has a problem with powerleveling to begin with. It's already beyond fast by MMO standards to hit cap through legitimate means and there's not enough content in place to reduce the default XP curve by any appreciable degree without forcing people to streetsweep and/or repeat content (or be required to play through every zone including the one(s) people avoid) to hit the cap.
As to the theme thing, you lost me. Grab the loot? What were we supposed to be doing before? Beating up the villain so we could rob the place instead? I always saw it as we were stopping the villain from grabbing the loot as that's the only way it ever made sense to me and that hasn't changed.
I'm already loving it personally... it's better on my lvl 40s, it's better on my sub-40s. It's just better.
I'll have to see how 36-40 goes on my smash now grab only character goes but I am now considering finishing it out in grabs again since it is still giving a bubble+ a run. 34 had entered the 3/4 bubble per smash range and I remember 36 or 37 going to 1/2 bubble per smash.
About the only delay of game I can foresee is Ao'Igiveup. If the Void I was doing this with had Skarn's Bane (as well as Ebon Ruin before 40) I'd give it a go since that can cover for people not getting the block the lifedrain bit.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I'll have to see how 36-40 goes on my smash now grab only character goes but I am now considering finishing it out in grabs again since it is still giving a bubble+ a run. 34 had entered the 3/4 bubble per smash range and I remember 36 or 37 going to 1/2 bubble per smash.
About the only delay of game I can foresee is Ao'Igiveup. If the Void I was doing this with had Skarn's Bane (as well as Ebon Ruin before 40) I'd give it a go since that can cover for people not getting the block the lifedrain bit.
People just need to learn how to block. I defeated an Ao'Q Grab just yesterday with a team of only 4! Levels 11, 12, 18, and I was 26. I was tanking him the whole time so it went smoothly. Whittled him down in no time, without Skarn's or Trauma.
People just need to learn how to block. I defeated an Ao'Q Grab just yesterday with a team of only 4! Levels 11, 12, 18, and I was 26. I was tanking him the whole time so it went smoothly. Whittled him down in no time, without Skarn's or Trauma.
Pets don't seem to avoid the lifedrain though.
Skarn's and Trauma helps if you don't have the tools to get aggro and hold it.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Best thing I've found on Ao is if a ranged person grabs his aggro hard enough that he'll stay aggro'd, then just flies up out of range.... I've done this on my PA character, and he would literally just stand there looking dumb and not doing any of his attacks while the group just carves him up.
The only problem I have with hitting level 40 is that Silver Freeforms don't get the complementary retcon. This change should have happened a month after On Alert.
____________________________________
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
The only problem I have with hitting level 40 is that Silver Freeforms don't get the complementary retcon. This change should have happened a month after On Alert.
You would think that 50$ would be enough to pay for the slot, access to a freeform, the free retcon, and power coloring....especially since it's enough to pay for 3 months of unlimited access to all of those things on several characters .-.
If it was an attempt to curtail powerleveling it missed the target by a mile, not that this game has a problem with powerleveling to begin with. It's already beyond fast by MMO standards to hit cap through legitimate means and there's not enough content in place to reduce the default XP curve by any appreciable degree without forcing people to streetsweep and/or repeat content (or be required to play through every zone including the one(s) people avoid) to hit the cap.
Well, I guess I will be searching for these other fast ways of leveling. I am not sure what they are, but I've been curious since the "moderate pace" post. If you're willing to offer any hints I'd be grateful!
I wish there was more time to play all the concepts I have. I think Champions is very different in this regard than other MMOs I have played. I have never had so many alts and so many ideas I'm anxious to do.
I guess the wide open costume creator and freeform powers and character slots makes CO much more alt intensive, and result in you doing the leveling path much more often. So it becomes more important.
You would think that 50$ would be enough to pay for the slot, access to a freeform, the free retcon, and power coloring....especially since it's enough to pay for 3 months of unlimited access to all of those things on several characters .-.
>_> But I only paid $25...
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That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
I agree with everything OP says. I would say leave a Smash XP alert for people that want to level. Give a Grab and Smash Resources alert for people that want resources. Smash XP alert would be easier for lowbies, the Grab/Smash Resources alerts would be given a reasonable challenge for the players that want it.
The current upcoming changes are only going to vex the majority of the community.
And here I thought the entire point was due to people not wanting lowbie level 6s in the smashes because their low level cause the 40s to fail the alerts. So since the 40s wont need the double xp, and it been gated from the lowbies they hated, I thought everything would be great and happy. Smashes give out resources. And low level 6s don't have try and defeat enemy in two minutes due to their "low DPS" and piss off the 40s.
Based on what I've seen since the changes hit, the xp alert is still the most consistently popular alert.
Even when other queues fail to pop, if there's at least one going, it's the xp.
Seems to me the system is working great. In the few Grabs (xp) alerts i've run on 40s, I did feel like I had to carry the teams for the sake of smoothness, but not once did I feel that the team couldn't eventually defeat the boss with or without my help.
We don't have xp debt, but as deaths mean slower xp, I think we'll eventually see improvement in average skill level thanks to the change.
Less xp given as a gimme.
More of an XP boost for kills.
More stuff to kill.
Still a solid xp boost.
NO MORE TIME LIMITS.
I think people might be overreacting. This gives people like me who legitimately love the content this game has to offer a chance to play it and level at the same speed as y'all who alert. You still level fast. And it's not like there's a shortage of xp boosts to be had, they practically give em away.
Know what this change really does? It gives me a chance to take my level 40 chainsaw into an alert with y'all level 10s, and legitimately not care. Idle? I don't care. Leave? I don't care. Kill stuff? Good on ya, you helped me do my thing and that's great.
Endgame now has a purpose for me at 40. It's to level everyone else. Because one way or another, I will finish that run. As long as you're with me, and trying, you'll get your reward. I love that. And even if the whole team leaves except me? I'll still win it, and get my daily done. That is fine too. I'm sure you'll see me again afterward on another of my 40s, still trying to hold it all down and make your life easier. The main difference? I don't get annoyed if you're using a subpar build that doesn't contribute much. In the end, you've got that much more of a chance of hitting 40 and actually seeing your build work out. Why? I can do it so you don't have to.
I've finally seen the end of soloing an alert only to see 500 hp at the very end, with a full health bar, and a swarm of enemies I'd easily mangle. "rules change", I wish that were a thing. I'll settle for this instead.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I'm loving leveling through grabs. I actually made a tank...it's been a while since I felt there was a point to doing that... and it's actually a lot of fun... being a tank in a Smash just feels stupid... being a tank in a Grab makes me feel like a hero. Grabs being populated primarily by lower level characters, and rarely any 40s, has put their pacing in a really fun place. It actually feels like a battle now, rather than "follow the guy who kills everything in 2 seconds".
Yes, it is slower leveling now, but the process of leveling through alerts is way more fun now so who cares if it takes a little longer? I'm actually fighting my way to 40.... rather than spamming my way there.
I've actually started doing missions here and there again. Not really sure why... wouldn't have even considered it before.
And has anyone had that amazing feeling of doing the Burst daily yet? Boom boom boom... done.
And then I hop on my 40 and farm some Smashes for some quick easy resources.
So I guess if all you like to do is bum around in smash alerts from lvl 6-40 then drop that toon and start up all over again... yeah I guess you're out of luck...
Not even that, really, because you can still do that (well, the XP alerts, not necessarily Smash), it just won't be AS FAST, but still faster than any of the other games around.
Comments
It's what I and many other people want when leveling.
So... how do they decide which group gets what they want?
Oh wait... did you think that everyone who's leveling a character had the same opinion as you? lol
Yeah, so they can't do it according to "what people want", so they have to go with what makes more sense and what improves the play experience overall.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Holy smack, how many smashes have you qued for in your life? 2? It happens all the time. Or at least, it used to uwu
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Why, under Scenario 2, wouldn't you just leave and reque? You can still do that... you know?
Over-reacting.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nobody asked for the switch to begin with. It's something they did in response to people complaining about failing Smash Alerts one too many often. Strange that they could of just given lowbies a buff or something to manage the fights better. People in this forum have stated how grabs can fail the same way if not a more depressing way than Smashes would.
You could, but that wasn't what the person I was quoting described.
His words, not mine:
Mis-representing what was said.
Except for the fact...they don't.
Same exact thing applied for smash alerts. Except you might not be 10 minutes in when half the people bailed like you could be on grabs.
Exactly.
At least when a smash fails, you have only wasted 2 minutes, tops.
After fighting halfway through a Museum Heist grab alert, and 2-3 bail...how is that not a "fail"??
The remaining 2 characters, especially if they are lowbies, will have no chance of finishing the alert, and if they do...it is going to take like 45 minutes!!
The people that are so worried that a lowbie might cause them to fail alerts are not going to get what they want...because in the end, they might not "fail", but they will spend 5x more time doing the same thing. Which is worse than a fail in a 2 min alert.
Short of exploits or special tools, xp alerts have been the fastest way to level.
Farming Colossi would have been up there but they disabled that a long time ago.
Killing Destroids in resistance can level at a decent rate assuming one can kill them, usually in a vehicle if leveling.
A certain SL mission can be repeated.
Most open world missions require some running around, though you can work on multiple oens at once. Alerts don't require you to move and as long as they're consistently sucessful are the most efficient way, as they provide more xp than a typical mission and are done faster. 3 things kill smash efficiency, failures, lack of smashes, queue times. As long as they aren't an issue, you're hard-pressed to find any way of leveling faster.
Except for the fact... they do. Hey that was easy
Nobody even thought to ask for it. This is actually one of those instances where the devs have proven that they can have better ideas than we can even think of. Maybe this is why they get paychecks for what they do, and we get nothing for our constant complaining and bickering on the forums.
Yes, they could have done some complicated hard-to-balance thing like giving lowbies a buff or some other even more convoluted thing........ or they could just switch the rewards. Turns out, simple but effective is the hot new thing at Cryptic North.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
How so??
A grab alert takes longer (in some cases, a LOT longer), and can still fail.
How does that work better for lowbies?
It seems like the only people it will work better for are mid-to-high level characters that don't want lowbies in their alerts.
And as others pointed out above, those that don't want to do alerts with lowbies can simply leave and re-queue...just like they are going to do with grabs.
So again...how does this work better for low level characters exactly??
I don't get how this is supposed to be more convenient for them. When they play the game in their off time on their personal accounts they're on the same server and subject to the same systems the rest of us are.
For all any of us know, it'll be just as much of an inconvenience to them as well. Of course this is all assuming these changes are being made for the singular effort of purposely slowing the leveling progress of the playerbase. An assumption that seems to be born more from player frustration over PTS notes than anything else.
There's no point in letting all these 'gonna quit anyways' into the bonus XP alerts.
Players should be rewarded for sticking around for the next phase of their leveling experience instead of having it all thrown in their face when they are not ready, not welcome and not interested.
Queues are taking longer but blood moon might whats causing delays.
Unless everyone's at the tailor using the new tail pump.
It's not even after 5pm EDT. PDT and MDT are still in school and CDT is likely getting off the bus.
Folks no longer have a reason to not want to do XP alerts with lowbies... since there's no timer. That's one way it works better out for lowbies... those people are going to stay now because lowbies are no longer a guarantee of failure for high level players. So, hey look, it works out for low, mid, and high level players.
You're going to be able to figure out how long a Grab alert is going to take within the first minute. If by the end of that first minute it looks like the alert is going to take too long for your taste, then leave it. If you stay past that point, it's your own fault.
And yes, Grab alerts in general take slightly longer than Smash alerts. However, neither you nor anyone else has yet to give a reason for why that's such a big concern. So they're making you play that part of the video game a little longer to get your video game reward in your video game. Face it, if you're playing video games then you have time to spare.
You've given plenty of reasons for why you want to get to level 40 as fast as possible... but not a single reason for why you have to, or why it's negatively affecting your experience. If you're willing to admit that you take out your stop watch and time everything you do in game, then count up all the rewards you got, then calculate the exact reward per second and then consciously decide how much you enjoyed all the stuff you already did based on that number, then you'll have some ground to stand on.
Other than that, I don't really see why getting to level 40 a day later than you did before is bad... at all. Are you worried you're going to die a day before that or something?
Yes, sensible ideas are often more convenient than bad ideas, that's part of what makes them good ideas. Does an idea being more complicated and difficult to implement somehow make it better in your world view?
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Here are some numbers after testing with a lvl 20 character.
1st Grab - Bank Robbery - mid level team - 9:34
2nd Grab - Bank Robbery - mid level team - 9:11
3rd Grab - Museum Heist - mixed team - 13:40
4th Grab - Museum Heist - mixed/mid level team - 12:49
5th Grab - Fighting City Hall - mid level team - 8:15
6th Grab - Fighting City Hall - mixed team - 9:03
Total time: 54:12 ... for the exact same amount of XP I could have gotten in roughly 12 minutes.
That is not "slightly" longer. It is FIVE TIMES longer.
If you are going to advocate for these changes, you might want to actually have some idea of what you are talking about before spouting off nonsense in an attempt to minimize their impact.
You do understand that you are going to have to complete grabs for XP as well...right?? It isn't like they level gated smash alerts to 30 and those still give XP.
These changes do not keep low level players (most of which are likely alt characters being played by people with MULTIPLE level 40 characters...some with lifetime subs) out of the XP alerts, it just makes it so that it takes EVERYONE five times longer than it did to level up via alerts.
There are better ways that I can spend my money than wasting an hour for half a level of XP.
I will check back periodically to see if they change alerts back, until then...I understand they have made some nice additions to SWTOR.
HPX
Edit: Oh, hey, ninja'd by a Goodbye post! Hope you're subbed to SWTOR, because they've got the worst F2P experience I've found yet...
...okay, maybe second worst - the WoW "F2P" won't let you get past lvl 20...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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This specific mentality makes no sense. There is a similar failure in logic from the enjoy-the-journey argument.
How did the existence of faster XP alerts make it unfair for you to do missions?
You could still do the missions. They were not harmed.
Let's follow this logic.
Before: slow missions and fast alerts. You feel it is unfair and missions are penalized.
After: missions are unchanged, alerts are slowed down. Now all of the sudden missions are ok? But missions *didn't change*.
They were ruined for you because people-who-aren't-you were doing faster alerts? Why did you care?
It would have made perfect sense to say it was unfair if you were arguing for speeding up missions. But the argument to slow down alerts makes no sense.
If you wanted to level slow, and have a "journey", it was already completely in your power to do so. In fact, that is obvious. The only problem you could have had was that you wanted *others* to level slow too.
If you didn't like the fast leveling of alerts... don't do it! The missions were right there for you! You get to decide for yourself, not for others.
Why do you want to control others?
I suppose the idea is that it would balance out among failed missions not awarding XP but that happened so rarely it wasn't a problem. Oh well.
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I'm not a huge role player... but I do like consistency in my fiction and "Grabs" (grabbing the loot) and "Smash" (smashing villains for XP) offering conflicting awards just seems like very little thought was put into it.
It's pretty transparent this was just a measure to stop power leveling.
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So I guess if all you like to do is bum around in smash alerts from lvl 6-40 then drop that toon and start up all over again... yeah I guess you're out of luck...
Have fun doing that on SWTOR!
Just dinged 35 so we'll see how those do.
Doesn't feel any worse than waiting for a Smash to come up so far.
edit:
At 35 with 9% bonus xp from Nemesis gear and a Grab buff a 7 minute CIty Hall: Poe gave 90,020 xp and a bubble should be 68k XP so the Grabs are indeed giving more than a bubble at 35.
At 35 with the same bonuses Bank Robbery: Ripper gave 85,971 XP and took 5 min. Still more than a bubble.
Are you guys just counting the completion XP and not the whole Alert?
It was bank heist vs Madstone.
Team levels were 12, 12, 29, 30 (me), and 39. So a nice mix.
We started at 7:25.
The alert is mostly a whole bunch of mooks, what I think other MMOs would call "trash mobs".
It took us 8 minutes to clear through the trash mobs and reach Madstone.
I left the alert at 7:35, so 10 minutes total.
The reward, with all buffs (nemesis items, favor, anniversary, and should be old smash alert) was 65,951. I think it used to be like 80,000ish for me, not certain.
So, meh. Don't think I will enjoy an ~8 minute barrier of trash mobs being added. Will anyone?
The people who said it would only be *slightly* slower... do you still maintain that?
On the other tack, I am very surprised. Somehow making it take longer for a lesser reward did not transform it into a magical heroic personal meaningful "Journey". I still don't feel the XP means something and that I deserve special reverence or something. It just took longer to get.
Worse, even with extra time it took, Rush failed to start playing in the background. Guess I'll put in a ticket for that.
Oh well, I am posting unhappy, so I'll stop.
Have fun and take care everyone.
Still better than Train Stopping!
I really do love most other smash alerts but felt it was a little bit of a waste to do them on my level 40s unless I was helping someone level...
Now there is more incentive to do smashes with my level 40s and for me that is a bonus.
Not sure if you were talking to me or the OP. I don't want to control others. I think control should only be used to handle game breakers. If something doesn't affect me, I'm one step from oblivious to it. They can increase or decrease whatever they want as long as the overall experience improves. If it diminishes, then my desire to continue playing drops, and my desire to pay my monthly also drops.
While I AM concerned with these changes, I'm not expecting them to be horrible.
Wat I'm more concerned with how everybody gets concerned with things that don't really affect them.
Everybody seems to think that THEY know what is best for the game, and everyone is quick to tell us how it SHOULD be. The fact is, it's all really just speculation - much like armchair quarterbacking.
I could also spend 15 long paragraphs telling anyone who'd read what I think the game should be like (and I have) but that doesn't mean my take would be better for the game. I've got more than a quarter century of PC gaming under my belt, and almost as much time in programing and IT. That doesn't mean I know jack about how to make a great game, it just means I have a somewhat educated opinion on the subject. And all the people with their facts and figures can't honestly say they know more than anyone else, but they can all say that they like their own opinion the most :biggrin:
Several people post how they've talked to all these players that are leaving. I meet new excited players almost every day. I know that the key is getting people to stick around as I have, and getting to other players such as myself who willing fork over money each month. I prefer the old subscription method over the F2P system, but that's just not the way anymore I guess. I live with it.
As my earlier post feature Rush lyrics hinted at, I'm not one for changing things unless they are game breaking. I've managed to level up to 40 19 times, each time a bit faster than before, but it's unlikely I'll EVER be able to level a toon as fast as Kenpo does. But I'm not upset that he can go so fast, and I think it'd be pretty cruddy to take away that ability just because I can't. I know that if I put in what he has, I'd likely get similar results.
I don't think that changing XP rates is a good or bad thing, until you factor in the overall experience. It's entirely possible that excluding lowbies will make up for the XP deficit. I know that failed Smash Alerts suck, and I've never had one fail when everyone was over level 25 (that I recall). I won't complain until there's real cause... like a broken power, mission or something of that nature.
< wonders why you would bother with this game if you could play SWTOR. I'd have to replace my computer =P, albeit it has needed replacing for years anyway.
Told you
The theme still fits though. The bad guys in Grabs are still trying to grab the money and run. In smashes, you are still smashing the villains face in. What doesn't fit thematically? Oh wait... were you under the impression that the heroes were the ones going into the bank or museum and grabbing the money? ...wtf? what kind of hero are you? o_O
And um... listen maybe you haven't played other games in a while... but this game still has some pretty blatantly heavy power leveling going on even after these changes. If the devs wanted to stop power leveling, they would have to nerf the hell out of all methods to gain XP in this game, both alerts and missions. CO players are spoiled as hell... and we're still spoiled as hell. You can put your tinfoil hat away on this one.
Simple fact is, the devs have no reason to want to make you level slower, since they gain nothing from doing so. You can kind of tell that by the entire design of the game... i.e. powerleveling heaven. These changes were made because it makes more sense this way. I'm already loving it personally... it's better on my lvl 40s, it's better on my sub-40s. It's just better.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nope, I'll leave it at that.
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If it was an attempt to curtail powerleveling it missed the target by a mile, not that this game has a problem with powerleveling to begin with. It's already beyond fast by MMO standards to hit cap through legitimate means and there's not enough content in place to reduce the default XP curve by any appreciable degree without forcing people to streetsweep and/or repeat content (or be required to play through every zone including the one(s) people avoid) to hit the cap.
As to the theme thing, you lost me. Grab the loot? What were we supposed to be doing before? Beating up the villain so we could rob the place instead? I always saw it as we were stopping the villain from grabbing the loot as that's the only way it ever made sense to me and that hasn't changed.
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I'll have to see how 36-40 goes on my smash now grab only character goes but I am now considering finishing it out in grabs again since it is still giving a bubble+ a run. 34 had entered the 3/4 bubble per smash range and I remember 36 or 37 going to 1/2 bubble per smash.
About the only delay of game I can foresee is Ao'Igiveup. If the Void I was doing this with had Skarn's Bane (as well as Ebon Ruin before 40) I'd give it a go since that can cover for people not getting the block the lifedrain bit.
People just need to learn how to block. I defeated an Ao'Q Grab just yesterday with a team of only 4! Levels 11, 12, 18, and I was 26. I was tanking him the whole time so it went smoothly. Whittled him down in no time, without Skarn's or Trauma.
Pets don't seem to avoid the lifedrain though.
Skarn's and Trauma helps if you don't have the tools to get aggro and hold it.
Is Ao a he?
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You would think that 50$ would be enough to pay for the slot, access to a freeform, the free retcon, and power coloring....especially since it's enough to pay for 3 months of unlimited access to all of those things on several characters .-.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well, I guess I will be searching for these other fast ways of leveling. I am not sure what they are, but I've been curious since the "moderate pace" post. If you're willing to offer any hints I'd be grateful!
I wish there was more time to play all the concepts I have. I think Champions is very different in this regard than other MMOs I have played. I have never had so many alts and so many ideas I'm anxious to do.
I guess the wide open costume creator and freeform powers and character slots makes CO much more alt intensive, and result in you doing the leveling path much more often. So it becomes more important.
>_> But I only paid $25...
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Well if you go to Wendy's with a "50% off" coupon they don't only give you half the meal u3u
Questionite coupons... that sounds kind of cute :O
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Nope, not that either.
And here I thought the entire point was due to people not wanting lowbie level 6s in the smashes because their low level cause the 40s to fail the alerts. So since the 40s wont need the double xp, and it been gated from the lowbies they hated, I thought everything would be great and happy. Smashes give out resources. And low level 6s don't have try and defeat enemy in two minutes due to their "low DPS" and piss off the 40s.
Even when other queues fail to pop, if there's at least one going, it's the xp.
Seems to me the system is working great. In the few Grabs (xp) alerts i've run on 40s, I did feel like I had to carry the teams for the sake of smoothness, but not once did I feel that the team couldn't eventually defeat the boss with or without my help.
We don't have xp debt, but as deaths mean slower xp, I think we'll eventually see improvement in average skill level thanks to the change.
More of an XP boost for kills.
More stuff to kill.
Still a solid xp boost.
NO MORE TIME LIMITS.
I think people might be overreacting. This gives people like me who legitimately love the content this game has to offer a chance to play it and level at the same speed as y'all who alert. You still level fast. And it's not like there's a shortage of xp boosts to be had, they practically give em away.
Know what this change really does? It gives me a chance to take my level 40 chainsaw into an alert with y'all level 10s, and legitimately not care. Idle? I don't care. Leave? I don't care. Kill stuff? Good on ya, you helped me do my thing and that's great.
Endgame now has a purpose for me at 40. It's to level everyone else. Because one way or another, I will finish that run. As long as you're with me, and trying, you'll get your reward. I love that. And even if the whole team leaves except me? I'll still win it, and get my daily done. That is fine too. I'm sure you'll see me again afterward on another of my 40s, still trying to hold it all down and make your life easier. The main difference? I don't get annoyed if you're using a subpar build that doesn't contribute much. In the end, you've got that much more of a chance of hitting 40 and actually seeing your build work out. Why? I can do it so you don't have to.
I've finally seen the end of soloing an alert only to see 500 hp at the very end, with a full health bar, and a swarm of enemies I'd easily mangle. "rules change", I wish that were a thing. I'll settle for this instead.
RIP Caine
Yes, it is slower leveling now, but the process of leveling through alerts is way more fun now so who cares if it takes a little longer? I'm actually fighting my way to 40.... rather than spamming my way there.
I've actually started doing missions here and there again. Not really sure why... wouldn't have even considered it before.
And has anyone had that amazing feeling of doing the Burst daily yet? Boom boom boom... done.
And then I hop on my 40 and farm some Smashes for some quick easy resources.
...so what was everyone complaining about again?
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Not even that, really, because you can still do that (well, the XP alerts, not necessarily Smash), it just won't be AS FAST, but still faster than any of the other games around.
Really, the whining over this is ridiculous.
Tell me about it. Oh no! Whatever will we do now that leveling is slower...
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Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's