Stronghold Containment Facilities

theravenforce · September 2013

Hi there, I don't own any of the Champs Lore books or anything things I know about COverse and Champions is either from in game material or from experienced and other players who are knowledgeable about this topic and of course the forums.

I'd like to know a few things about The Stronghold Chain of Prisons:

1 - Powerful Villains like Gravitar, where would she be kept? How would she be contained and supressed (if possible)?

2 - How many prisons are there in America regarding Stronghold? (I ask this because I know there is more than the Menton overrun one in the desert, that and I am curious to know which stronghold Daniel Simanowitz (Cybermind) was held at.

3 - What would prolonged exposure do to super villains exposed to power suppression devices?

4 - Aside from Hot Sleep what other forms of "super" containment devices exist?

5 - Are things like Hot Sleep for Mentalist villains only? (I get the impression it is but I think I am wrong)

6 - Are their tiers of power dampeners? How do they work?

7 - How do Dampeners deal with mutants? (Or are they calibrated to supress anything labelled as a super powered energy signature?)

I may have further questions in the light of new information.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my questions!! :biggrin:

bulgarex · September 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

Hi there, I don't own any of the Champs Lore books or anything things I know about COverse and Champions is either from in game material or from experienced and other players who are knowledgeable about this topic and of course the forums.

I'd like to know a few things about The Stronghold Chain of Prisons:

Glad to oblige. Most of the following information comes from the Stronghold sourcebook, supplemented by the most recent edition of Champions Universe.

theravenforce wrote: »

1 - Powerful Villains like Gravitar, where would she be kept? How would she be contained and supressed (if possible)?

Hot Sleep is the usual option for villains whose powers are just too strong for the suppressors to fully negate. A prisoner could spend his or her entire sentence under Hot Sleep. It's also apparently used for limited periods as punishment for prisoners who are particularly violent or who repeatedly try to escape, like solitary confinement in normal prisons. OTOH there are some additional options to control prisoners who aren't otherwise very dangerous, but whose abilities would be especially efficient for escaping (see answer to 4 below).

theravenforce wrote: »

2 - How many prisons are there in America regarding Stronghold? (I ask this because I know there is more than the Menton overrun one in the desert, that and I am curious to know which stronghold Daniel Simanowitz (Cybermind) was held at.

I can find no references in the sourcebooks to any additional Stronghold-type prisons operating or planned in the United States. However, there are several such facilities elsewhere in the world, mostly patterned after Stronghold. UNTIL maintains a large facility on a small North Atlantic island, commonly referred to as "The Guardhouse." Canada has a much smaller prison in northern Ontario for its own supercriminals, dubbed Stronghold North. The European Union built the Pan-European Superhuman Correctional Institute (PESHCI) on the coast of Sweden. China's Zamtang Detention Center is near the city of the same name in Sichuan province. The Russian government built Mesto Zaklyuchenia ("Detention Facility") at the site of a former Soviet gulag in Siberia. While Australia keeps a single prisoner -- the world's deadliest super-assassin, Taipan -- at a facility in the Outback built especially for him.

All of these institutions are described in moderate detail in the Stronghold book. They are more or less similar to Stronghold, but may differ in significant architectural, technological, or social respects.

As for Cybermind, according to his most recent PnP book entry, he was held at the medical facility of the Stronghold prison in New Mexico.

theravenforce wrote: »

3 - What would prolonged exposure do to super villains exposed to power suppression devices?

There's no indication that prolonged exposure to power suppressors has any detrimental effect on inmates, aside from the intended ones. Many Stronghold prisoners have spent years or even decades with their powers continually shut down. However, some inmates may over time build up a tolerance to suppressors, like addicts who acclimate to certain drugs, and become less affected by them.

theravenforce wrote: »

4 - Aside from Hot Sleep what other forms of "super" containment devices exist?

Prisoners whose particular powers may facilitate escaping if they become active, are kept in cells incorporating additional technology keyed to counter those abilities. These include extra reinforcement against brute force or particular forms of energy; and custom negators against shrinking, teleportation, invisibility, intangibility, mental domination, or other abilities.

theravenforce wrote: »

5 - Are things like Hot Sleep for Mentalist villains only? (I get the impression it is but I think I am wrong)

See answer to 1 above.

theravenforce wrote: »

6 - Are their tiers of power dampeners? How do they work?

In layman's terms, power suppressors affect their subjects in two ways. Neurologically, they prevent the villains from accessing their powers. They also alter the fabric of reality so even if the villain could access his powers, they wouldn't function. Essentially a "suppressed" superhuman becomes a normal human, which is why already-normal people aren't affected by them.

The standard Stronghold prison dampeners project their effects over an area. Collectively they cover the entire facility, allowing the prisoners to be as active and mobile as they would be in a normal prison. The special Stronghold prisoner transfer vehicles include suppressors which cover the interior of the vehicle. There are also personal restraints such as handcuffs, and special collars, which incorporate individual power suppressors.

theravenforce wrote: »

7 - How do Dampeners deal with mutants? (Or are they calibrated to supress anything labelled as a super powered energy signature?)

The technology employed by Stronghold functions against any type of superpower, defined as any ability beyond what a normal human could possess. They are, however, less reliable against magic because of magic's inherent reality-warping nature. Heroic mystics often supplement Stronghold's technological restraints of magical villains with warding spells.

theravenforce wrote: »

I may have further questions in the light of new information.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my questions!! :biggrin:

You're welcome. I hope that helped.

theravenforce · September 2013

Thank you SO much!

Given me a wealth of information to work with, I am very grateful!!

theravenforce · September 2013

bulgarex wrote: »

The standard Stronghold prison dampeners project their effects over an area. Collectively they cover the entire facility, allowing the prisoners to be as active and mobile as they would be in a normal prison. The special Stronghold prisoner transfer vehicles include suppressors which cover the interior of the vehicle. There are also personal restraints such as handcuffs, and special collars, which incorporate individual power suppressors.

Would this mean (emboldened) that going into Stronghold (In game and Lore wise) should affect heroes in a similar way? As in, would we also be under some level (if not total) suppression of our powers whilst delivering a villain to Stronghold facilities? Or are they keyed specifically to inmates? Like a micro chip which transmits a signal which enables power suppression or something?

bulgarex wrote: »

The technology employed by Stronghold functions against any type of superpower, defined as any ability beyond what a normal human could possess. They are, however, less reliable against magic because of magic's inherent reality-warping nature. Heroic mystics often supplement Stronghold's technological restraints of magical villains with warding spells.

If an alien were to be captured and put into a facility, having their abilities from birth I assume they should also be suppressed at least to an extent by these restraints?

Thanks again!

bulgarex · September 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

Would this mean (emboldened) that going into Stronghold (In game and Lore wise) should affect heroes in a similar way? As in, would we also be under some level (if not total) suppression of our powers whilst delivering a villain to Stronghold facilities? Or are they keyed specifically to inmates? Like a micro chip which transmits a signal which enables power suppression or something?

Any superhuman within the effect of a power negator would be affected equally. It's one of the main reasons why Stronghold's guard staff include no superheroes. They'd be no more effective than regular guards, aside from any special training they may possess.

theravenforce wrote: »

If an alien were to be captured and put into a facility, having their abilities from birth I assume they should also be suppressed at least to an extent by these restraints?

Aliens and other non-humans are equally affected. Abilities of a type humans can't have would be negated, while physical abilities such as strength which are superhuman would be suppressed to normal human levels. However, power suppressors can't affect gross anatomical qualities which are natural for that species, such as claws, horns, metallic skin, wings, etc. More mundane means are needed to deal with the dangerous features, like trimming claws or capping horns (within humane standards).

theravenforce · September 2013

bulgarex wrote: »

Any superhuman within the effect of a power negator would be affected equally. It's one of the main reasons why Stronghold's guard staff include no superheroes. They'd be no more effective than regular guards, aside from any special training they may possess.

Aliens and other non-humans are equally affected. Abilities of a type humans can't have would be negated, while physical abilities such as strength which are superhuman would be suppressed to normal human levels. However, power suppressors can't affect gross anatomical qualities which are natural for that species, such as claws, horns, metallic skin, wings, etc. More mundane means are needed to deal with the dangerous features, like trimming claws or capping horns (within humane standards).

Thank you very much for your informative and super fast answers! :biggrin:

bulgarex · September 2013

gradii wrote: »

also how do you explain operation stranglehold in game? the supressors are offline when you go in true, but you are able to use them without being affected. perhaps the repair units they give you repair them in a way that doesn't affect you?

(yes I know they didn't have the lore completely in mind when they made that mission)

The details in any MMO that don't follow logic would make for a significant list.

That said, as I mentioned upthread, Stronghold restraint technology includes collars with personal power suppressors. Perhaps the prison staff could have issued each PC a collar reversed to negate the effect of the area suppressors on the wearer.

bulgarex · September 2013

gradii wrote: »

would people who have no superpowers but have trained so hard they have superhuman like qualities be affected at all?

Short answer, No. In the PnP CU it's certainly possible for someone with a combination of exceptional natural ability and advanced combat training to hold their own with at least some true superhumans, even though they have no superpowers themselves. In the CU these are referred to as "trained superhumans." Villains in this category are often sent to Stronghold, being too dangerous to contain or control in most conventional prisons. In fact they usually rule the prison population in Stronghold, compared to villains who always relied on their super powers.

However, any superhuman capacities they might have developed as part of their training, such as strength or speed beyond human limits, ch'i powers, or psionic abilities, would be negated by the power suppressors.

theravenforce · September 2013

bulgarex wrote: »

However, any superhuman capacities they might have developed as part of their training, such as strength or speed beyond human limits, ch'i powers, or psionic abilities, would be negated by the power suppressors.

In light of this, would that mean that heroes with bionic or cybernetic implants (like my Bionic Bullet) would be affected, in the sense that not only would her chi abilities be unusable but so would her enhanced strength and speed from implants?

bulgarex · September 2013

Regarding implants, the answer is Yes, they would be affected. Any augmenting technology possessed by a villain which is readily removable without surgery or otherwise harming the villain is taken from them before they're imprisoned in Stronghold. But the power suppressors damp down any and every superhuman ability as defined earlier on this thread, regardless of the source of that ability (bionics, mutation, genetic engineering, magic, psionics, ch'i, alien species, tapping another dimension, etc).

theravenforce · September 2013

bulgarex wrote: »

Regarding implants, the answer is Yes, they would be affected. Any augmenting technology possessed by a villain which is readily removable without surgery or otherwise harming the villain is taken from them before they're imprisoned in Stronghold. But the power suppressors damp down any and every superhuman ability as defined earlier on this thread, regardless of the source of that ability (bionics, mutation, genetic engineering, magic, psionics, ch'i, alien species, tapping another dimension, etc).

Awesome! Thanks again!

bulgarex · September 2013

bulgarex wrote: »

Short answer, No. In the PnP CU it's certainly possible for someone with a combination of exceptional natural ability and advanced combat training to hold their own with at least some true superhumans, even though they have no superpowers themselves. In the CU these are referred to as "trained superhumans." Villains in this category are often sent to Stronghold, being too dangerous to contain or control in most conventional prisons. In fact they usually rule the prison population in Stronghold, compared to villains who always relied on their super powers.

However, any superhuman capacities they might have developed as part of their training, such as strength or speed beyond human limits, ch'i powers, or psionic abilities, would be negated by the power suppressors.

I think I should clarify these remarks a bit to avoid misunderstandings. For the PnP game there are upper limits to the physical stats that any purely human being can attain regardless of training. Beyond those limits a person would count as superhuman, and there would have to be some extraordinary explanation for how that person achieved that level of ability. However, in the CU these stat limits are often well above what even most well-conditioned athletes in the real world can attain. For example, the strength, speed and stamina of Tarzan or Conan. The Stronghold power suppressors keep such abilities closer to the human average. As another example, Captain America in Stronghold would probably be weaker and slower than normal, even though none of his abilities are strictly "superhuman."

theravenforce · September 2013

gradii wrote: »

so no one is unaffected, but some are affected more than others some are affected less?

Depending on super human powers and how much they rely on them yes.

If Super Villain X relied on flight to get him/her EVERYWHERE and didn't bother walking, being in Stronghold would likely have a harder impact on him/her than say.. Super Villain Y who had the ability to fly as well but didn't rely on it as much.

I think in that sense some may be affected more than others. However the goal of the Stronghold suppressors is to keep everyone at roughly the same level.

Villains who are pretty much too powerful to be fully supressed by these devices are dropped in Hot Sleep.

bulgarex · September 2013

gradii wrote: »

so no one is unaffected, but some are affected more than others some are affected less?

Well, once you get into the PnP game mechanics, it gets a little more complicated than that. :rolleyes: But to put it as straightforwardly as possible, if you're a reasonably fit Joe Average, you probably won't notice any difference in your physical capabilities. Even an Olympic athlete may not feel different, although an upper-class weight lifter will probably feel weaker. If you're Killer Croc you'll definitely feel weaker than normal under a power negator. If you're Batman you may or may not feel weaker or slower, depending on which interpretation of Batman you're going with.

On the other end of the scale, the likes of villains such as Grond or Firewing are so powerful than even Stronghold's equipment can't completely negate their powers. Villains who can employ their special abilities may be able to put out enough power to overload a power negator, causing it to burn out completely and leave them with free use of their abilities. Sometimes groups of Stronghold inmates will attempt to combine their efforts to burn out a negator.

Some villains may also simply be more resistant to the effects of power negators, either due to acclimatization as described earlier, or because they have a natural resistance. (In PnP game terms, they have the particular Defense that counters some of the type of Power the negators employ.)

bulgarex · September 2013

gradii wrote: »

is that how menton broke out? xD

According to Menton's most recent PnP write-up, in Champions Villains Vol. 1, in July 2009 Menton just suddenly woke up from Hot Sleep. It's unclear whether his Hot Sleep capsule malfunctioned, was sabotaged, was shut off accidentally, or something else. Menton himself doesn't know, nor care. (An example of a deliberate mystery for a GM to develop on his own if he chooses.)

jonsills · September 2013

What exactly is Hotsleep, anyway? All we know about it in-game is that it's supposed to be an effective way of keeping the most dangerous supervillains under control, and that one of the random bits of dialog from the rioting prisoners notes that "it's not hot, and it sure ain't sleep!"

theravenforce · September 2013

jonsills wrote: »

What exactly is Hotsleep, anyway? All we know about it in-game is that it's supposed to be an effective way of keeping the most dangerous supervillains under control, and that one of the random bits of dialog from the rioting prisoners notes that "it's not hot, and it sure ain't sleep!"

It's basically suspended animation (from what I saw in Resistance) and it is filled with some sort of fluid.

It keeps the prisoners alive but in a comatose state. Like an induced coma.

Bulgarex will have a better explanation I reckon.

bulgarex · September 2013

"Induced coma," with life-support systems, is pretty much how the books describe Hot Sleep. Those for the Fifth and Sixth Editions of the PnP game, which establish the current official Champions Universe, don't give much more detail than that. However, in the Fourth Edition source books it was described as sending electronic impulses directly into the brain to shut down its conscious functions. IMO this is the most logical explanation, given how loss of power to one of the units seems to quickly revive the prisoner.

Hot Sleep units are variously described as "chambers" or "capsules," or their most common nickname in Stronghold, "coffins." Each is large enough for one person, with larger coffins for giant-sized prisoners. They're kept on the lowest level of Stronghold, Level 10. Stronghold transport vehicles also carry one. Besides Menton, other past sleepers include Grond, Valak the World-Ravager, Geothermal, Glacier, and Interface.

As you might imagine, Hot Sleep is the most controversial element of Stronghold, with prisoners rights, civil rights, and human rights groups protesting it as cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution. In 1989 the US Supreme Court ruled that Hot Sleep did not violate the Eighth Amendment in the case of prisoners for whom no other form of confinement could reasonably suffice. OTOH the European Union's super prison, PESHCI, doesn't use Hot Sleep at all. The EU considers Hot Sleep a violation of basic human rights.

bulgarex · September 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

Depending on super human powers and how much they rely on them yes.

If Super Villain X relied on flight to get him/her EVERYWHERE and didn't bother walking, being in Stronghold would likely have a harder impact on him/her than say.. Super Villain Y who had the ability to fly as well but didn't rely on it as much.

I think in that sense some may be affected more than others. However the goal of the Stronghold suppressors is to keep everyone at roughly the same level.

Villains who are pretty much too powerful to be fully supressed by these devices are dropped in Hot Sleep.

gradii wrote: »

so basically you'd have the benefit of all your training, but not the enhanced capabilities you developed as a side effect.

Excellent summaries, folks, thank you.

As an illustrative example, when Craig "Mechassassin" Vandersnoot was imprisoned in Stronghold without his high-tech armor and weapons, he was almost universally recognized as top dog among the prisoners. Although not superhuman, Craig is exceptionally fit and has elite-military-level combat and tactical training, which among a group of non-super prisoners made him pretty much the toughest guy in Stronghold.

bulgarex · September 2013

There's a PDF supplement to the Stronghold sourcebook, called The Stronghold Files, which gives full write-ups for inmates not included in the main book. I think the story of Neutron, a classic Champions villain updated for that book, makes for an interesting take on life in Stronghold.

Neutron is a would-be world conqueror, a mutant with electromagnetic powers, and a brilliant scientist. During the 1970s and '80s he was one of the most feared master villains in the world. At his height his power, genius, and ambition rivalled that of Marvel Comics's Magneto, although he had no particular pro-mutant agenda. He launched several schemes for world domination which were only narrowly thwarted by superheroes.

Neutron was captured and sentenced to life imprisonment in Stronghold in 1989. At first he caused a great deal of trouble, repeatedly trying to overload the power negators, until he was sent for a period of Hot Sleep. His status has changed over time, however. Age, and decades under the power negators, have sapped Neutron's powers to a mere whisper of their former shout. Even if he was free to use them again, he'd be scarcely more dangerous than a thug with a gun.

Although Neutron's arrogance is undiminished, he's almost resigned to dying in Stronghold. Almost. He'd certainly take an opportunity to escape if presented with one. (I know we encounter Neutron and his loyal flunky, Arc, during the Stronghold breakout mission.)

Stronghold Containment Facilities

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