TK Blades

borg10f9 · September 2013

I've got my TK Blades toon up to 36, so it's not gonna be long before I'm done. This will be my 18th 40, so I'm not a newbie, but I haven't messed with Tk much, and even at 36 I'm still not sure about what's working well for me. So, I have a couple of questions for all the TK Blades people:

1. I haven't really been impressed with ID Weaponry. It seems to be tap only, and even with 5 stacks of Ego Leech it doesn't seem to crit very often. Is it worth keeping?

2. As a freeform primarily going for "psychic Ninja" theme, are there any powers that I should stay away from in the TK Blades set?

3. As a freeform primarily going for "psychic Ninja" theme, what are the best powers, and best synergy? Not necessarily looking for a build (unless you want to show one), just trying to figure out more about this interesting and fun powerset.

Thanks

The Borg

ashensnow · September 2013

borg10f9 wrote: »

I've got my TK Blades toon up to 36, so it's not gonna be long before I'm done. This will be my 18th 40, so I'm not a newbie, but I haven't messed with Tk much, and even at 36 I'm still not sure about what's working well for me. So, I have a couple of questions for all the TK Blades people:

1. I haven't really been impressed with ID Weaponry. It seems to be tap only, and even with 5 stacks of Ego Leech it doesn't seem to crit very often. Is it worth keeping?

2. As a freeform primarily going for "psychic Ninja" theme, are there any powers that I should stay away from in the TK Blades set?

3. As a freeform primarily going for "psychic Ninja" theme, what are the best powers, and best synergy? Not necessarily looking for a build (unless you want to show one), just trying to figure out more about this interesting and fun powerset.

Thanks

The Borg

ID weaponry can be very good damage with the right set up. Offensive passive, form, high crit chance/severity.

The Siphoning Strikes advantage turns ID weaponry on a high crit chance/severity build into a very effective self heal.

Either R3 or R2 with Siphoning Strikes is a good option.

An interesting option is to tap ego blade breach for the debuff and then go to town with ID weaponry.

borg10f9 · September 2013

Thank you ashensnow.

Anyone else have anything to add? Mind Dancer's at level 39, so tonight's the night.

I'm doing the respec as soon as she does her final ding, and I'm thinking I'll keep the Primary SS as Dex, with secondaries as Ego and possibly recovery, or possibly Pre.

Anyone have any thoughts?

monsterdaddy · September 2013

I have found TK Blades to be quite poor on dps especially with siphoning strikes. The one build I found competitive for dps is a tank role with dex vind brawler with fott n defiance. Use EBW w/ss for the Setup spec for EBA followed by a full charge EBB n repeat. I modded 4 dex n 2 con. Its about 3.5K dps as a tank which is quite good prolly better than many melee role ego blade builds.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

Ego Weaponry is not picked up so that you may use it as a damage ability. It's taken as a HEAL. What's so amazing about Siphoning stirkes is that it doesn't scale with your Pre or Healing bonus, but rather your dmg output. At lvl 36, things are quite different than when at 40. I noticed you mentioned you're about to hit 40. Have you yet? What's your build now?

Also, TK Blades is actually pretty darn good when built properly. Using only Ego Blade Breach, I consistently tap for 5k. NOT CHARGE. TAP. A tap is actually less than a second as well, so If you're only getting 3.5k....something must be off.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

Actually, here's my build(<--click). I deem it one of my finest, due to the amount of feedback I've received in regards to it. There's videos on there, if you don't take my word for it =p

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Hi MoL, well I have taken to testing on PTS with Kigatilik for 4 minutes min so it can accurately reflect energy management, healing, active offenses, etc. Best Ego Blade dps in a melee role was just 4.7K on a very glass cannon build. EBA and EBB look great on paper and but I think the problem is the energy costs are just too damn high.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

I'd like to be parsed =p Hit me up in-game. I hardly ever, ever hit my energy builder. perhaps due to the way I have Galaxi set up.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

l1ghtstar wrote: »

I'd like to be parsed =p Hit me up in-game. I hardly ever, ever hit my energy builder. perhaps due to the way I have Galaxi set up.

Ugh, I was trying to look at your videos but can't get em to work atm (dang old computer).

That's the exact question I have, I have no clue how you have ANY energy at all LOL! All you have is Ego Reverberation with no Ego! What is your energy tick per Ego Reverb?

l1ghtstar · September 2013

21 Energy per tick, that's with 197 Rec.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

Hopefully you may pull up the videos on a different comp? Even in those, I'm spamming them like crazy.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Let me step back and say I have explored Ego Blades soooo many times and have tried Mental Discipline with just Ego Reverb for energy so many times...

I cannot figure out how in the world you can spam EBB with just 21 energy every 3 sec (or 7 EPS). My only Ego Blade toon is FoTT, Defiance and Ego Reverb for way WAY MORE than 7 EPS and I still run out of energy LMAO!

How much is the energy cost of your EBB taps?

P.S. I wanted to mention the 1 sec activation time on EBA is not a disadvantage if you follow it with a charged attack. You can charge up a follow up attack DURING the EBA charge time so you really don't lose any time. I found this out with Unleashed Rage and Ice Grenades.

P.P.S. 21 Energy for 197 Rec? Wow, then Mecha Teddy's thread is way off, it should be like 15-16.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

EBB taps are 25....

All I can say is that the build is there, the stats are posted, and the videos...don't lie =D

BTW, I took off Conviction and added EBA since EBW w/ SS is all you need as a heal

monsterdaddy · September 2013

l1ghtstar wrote: »

EBB taps are 25....

Well, let's just say on PAPER something is definitely wrong if you taps cost 25 (which are just a little lower than mine) yet you can spam with just 7 EPS LOL!

I got to go out but I'll see if I can make up a Galaxi clone on PTS some time later and see what happens.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Well MoL, I made a pretty decent clone of Galaxi and just tested her out on Kigatilik. I am very thankful for your pic, I got Crit Chance/Severity, Offense all to line up pretty closely.

First, on the energy question, with 198 Rec and 15 Ego, I do have an identical 21 pt energy tick. The energy cost of my EBB tap was 19 with 5 Ego Leech stacks and the TP turned OFF.

So you are indeed running out of energy all the time. The key thing was your energy builder -- it's giving you back 44 and 32 energy (1st and 2nd taps). That's pretty good.

However, in my testing, using EB is a sizeable loss of DPS but the real test would be on Kigatilik.

The Kigatilik Test
I did do one thing to favor your build, I used a Necrullitic Elixir for healing instead of EBW w/SS. So my test toon spent the entire time spamming EBB with occasional uses of Ego Surge and Masterful Dodge. He never blocked.

So this test was pure damage with just energy as the limitation. The final result over 4 minutes was:

2.7K DPS

And I did get up to 5K taps on Testing Dummies in PTS so it matches your experience.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

good morning!

Wow. 2.7k huh?

Well, there's several things going on. 1. I'd like to get parsed 2. As previously mentioned, I'm also using EBA now, and also Force Sheathe. 3. Your efforts to try and test my build are appreciated, however, its just not the same.

One thing that I noticed you're doing in your style of building is testing out with kiga. Food for thought: is kiga a good representation of what you do most of the time in PvE?

I ask because if indeed when I get parsed and get a low number, to remedy the energy issue and stop spamming the energy builder I can either swap out stats (like use Ego primary and take off Dex) or just pop Arcane Circle and call it a day. That'll alter your results. I hope you catch where I'm going with that.

Anyways, be back later. I will be on around 8pm server.

Unknown · September 2013

This content has been removed.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Kigatilik isn't perfect but is certainly the most accessible and repeatable test dummy I have found in all of CO. Plus he does fight back.

I think Kiga is a very good test dummy because other PTS folks can come by and test and compare. I know what you're saying but minion dps is pretty irrelevant and I know Kiga results do translate well into other situations like Gravitar.

For example, my Ego Blade tank using Brawler FotT Ego Reverb Defiance all to make sure I rarely use my EB was the result of lots of tests on Kiga and the results are the same on other mobs. 3.5K dps confirmed and validated.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

I was hoping to catch you in-game. Was on for an hour so...

At any rate... I agree with you to a certain extent. Kiga's a good punching bag, but there's some factors that you have to also consider. In most of what you do in PvE is not the same as Kiga fighting. I'm going to assume that alerts is probably the most common PvE content, even if I'm wrong let's assume it is. In a grab alert builds such as Galaxi's will tear down mobs quickly in just one power cycle, since my energy pool is large enough for me to fire off the necessary attacks to get the job done. So I'll ask: What good is the kiga testing numbers there? All I see is me kicking **** all over the place while sometimes people are struggling to keep up.

What you're seeing in Kiga is the ability to turn incoming dmg into energy, which is great, but that same build will perform quite differently in other situations. In Gravitar, things are yet different quite again. In that situation, survivability is what will net you high dps numbers, because even the most energy efficient build might be squishy. Galaxi's build is a well balanced one, and I purposely left the last power slot open to whatever the reader chooses. To address your concerns, you can just pick up something like Arcane circle and solve the issue of energy management over a long run on a stationary target.

I like to believe one thing. In FF building, there is no such thing as a certain power set being more powerful than another. I like to think that in FF building, each INDIVIDUAL power may be categorized as "good" or "bad", thus making your build "good" or "bad". I state this because in FF building, you're taking a bunch of different powers with an assortment of stat choices which dictate whether your build is good or bad.

Anyways, I think we're straying off of the OP's topic/concern. I hope the OP has found what he/she was looking for =D

borg10f9 · September 2013

Wow, you guys have flooded the knowledge banks.

Mind Dancer hit 40 and I have respeced her. I picked up the advantage on Ego Weaponry, so now I see the healing, and it's not too shabby.

I'm not looking for the ultimate setup, just looking to see what can be done for a reasonable amount of Globals.

At the moment, I'm running Dex and Ego at just over 200 each, and Pre, End and Rec at just over 100 each.

What should be higher, and what should be lower?

Thanks for the advice!

l1ghtstar · September 2013

congrats!

Yup, like mentioned previously, EBW w Siphonig Strikes is much different at 40. Remember, it does NOT scale on healing bonuses, which include presence, so unless you're supportig a team, I'd take off all pre in favor of CON for example.

Also what's your primary super stat, and most importantly what's your gear?

monsterdaddy · September 2013

l1ghtstar wrote: »

What you're seeing in Kiga is the ability to turn incoming dmg into energy...

I'm not sure what you mean by that. There's no energy gained from receiving damage in your build. But if it did and you built around that then it's all good... as long as your build succeeds in getting aggro.

In any case, I think my original statement is true, TK Blades is a rather poor DPS powerset due to a number of factors we talked about. I liken TK Blades to Laser Sword, great on paper, rather disappointing in real situations. So I do happen to believe many powers are superior to others. (Poor Captain Millenium has spent hours in PTS for Might LOL) But I agree that this cannot be determined on paper but only on real builds.

Is there some measure to do that? I think so and I don't think a discussion about DPS changes all that much situationally. Minions aren't worth talking about IMHO because all any build needs to be is simply adequate. The challenge has always been bosses.

When you mention survivability I just don't believe it is such a great factor in DPS once you reach a safe minimum level. Because there are certainly plenty of builds that can survive Gravitar easily. I've been fooling around on Kigatilik because I am looking for a minimum level of SAFE survivability with maximum DPS. I've been finding that a fun challenge.

What I have found out so far is really quite surprising. Who would have thought a build that is so dependent on many many Shred combo, all at just Rank 1 and with a Laser Knight debuff too could do over 4K DPS in TANK role!? With single hits up to 27K!? Plus tank Gravitar over and over with just 7,777 HP.

Galaxi is balanced but I think you could push it out further and make her "more" balanced as in: 1) able to solo Grav, 2) increase DPS by at least a third, and 3) be in Tank role all at the same time. Brawler spec offers so many interesting options over Warden.

P.S. My Kigatilik testing is really opening my eyes. So many promising builds I have tested have fallen flat and some are very perplexing to me because sometimes I have no idea why. It is in the mechanics somehow, like your choice of attack sequence, etc. Still trying to figure it out.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Oh hi MoL, you're on.

To the OP, if you can get on PTS, do it. A safe thing to do is just get a set of Heroic Gear and play around with your build with Rank 5 mods. Then later move to Legion gear. I could post my TK Blade tank sometime too.

borg10f9 · September 2013

l1ghtstar wrote: »

congrats!

Yup, like mentioned previously, EBW w Siphoning Strikes is much different at 40. Remember, it does NOT scale on healing bonuses, which include presence, so unless you're supportig a team, I'd take off all pre in favor of CON for example.

Also what's your primary super stat, and most importantly what's your gear?

My Primary is Dex, currently at 200. Secondaries are Ego and Pre, but from what you're saying, I think I will do Con instead.

My stats at the moment are as follows :

Dex 200 +
Ego 200+
Pre 100
Rec 100
End 100
(everything else near 10)

My primary gear are all Mercenary gear (Yeah, I know they're not as good as Heroic, but this is my 19th level 40, with 12 running Heroic/Legion gear. I don't wanna think about the global invested).

I have a decent stock of rank 5 and 6 mods, so that keeps the cost down a bit.

Secondaries are always purples, and usually the +37 single stat or +20,+20 dual stat variety.

monsterdaddy wrote: »

To the OP, if you can get on PTS, do it. A safe thing to do is just get a set of Heroic Gear and play around with your build with Rank 5 mods. Then later move to Legion gear. I could post my TK Blade tank sometime too.

That's be great, I'd like to see what a well developed TK Blades build look like.

magentagem · September 2013

If you see Man of Light's Galaxi, that's an awesome build and is well developed.

TBH, MoL makes more sense than MonsterDaddy. His guides are thorough and proven to good. Not to mention them videos he puts out.

MoL, when's your next Guide coming out anyways?!

ashensnow · September 2013

They are both veteran builders with valid points. Ive played a dozen or so TK Blade variants since launch (remember Con/Ego as recommended SS for TK Blades ?) and both Monster and MoL raise good points. Energy efficiency has always been a consideration for TK Blades builds centered on EBB.

Force Sheath is a great help in that regard as long as you make sure that you have aggro.

Something that can also work pretty well is Quarry. With a lot of +OFFENSE and high SS you will be pushing pretty heavily into the DR for additive damage buffs so the lower damage buff of Quarry compared to Ego Form will not hit you as hard as it might at first appear. But you will get some pretty serious benefits to compensate. You will lose some damage but, with INT as a secondary SS (Dex SS, Int/Ego SSS perhaps) you have the potential to end up with 300 in all three SS while also boosting your survivability through dodge.

Just an FYI. The reality of the matter is that a TK Blades build, as long as you take some core options, is viable in a number of variants.

theravenforce · September 2013

Ooh, TK Blades...

I've been interested in this power for a while. My toon PsychBlade was a Disciple AT (back when it first came out) 1-40'd her and it was cool, before the EGO change however I became LTS and she went Ranged TK. I'd really love to get her back into TK Blades, since her name suggests she really should be melee TK, my Psion The Psinister build tops her ranged TK capacity by a significant margin so that's another reason to revamp her. I've come up with a build. I'd really like some help with fleshing it out please!

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: PsychBlade - Rebirth of the TK Blader

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Disciple
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Tireless
Level 12: Enduring
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Acrobat
Level 21: Impresario

Powers:
Level 1: Ego Blade
Level 1: Ego Weaponry (Rank 2, Siphoning Strikes)
Level 6: Id Mastery (Rank 2, Rank 3, Id Blades)
Level 8: Ego Blade Frenzy (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Ego Blade Dash
Level 14: Ego Reverberation
Level 17: Ego Blade Breach (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 23: Mental Discipline (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Telekinetic Maelstrom (Rank 2)
Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Sleight of Mind)
Level 38: Parry (The Elusive Monk)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Teleportation (Rank 2)

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (1/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (1/2)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

Notes:

- Parry is here for added Dodge and minor KB protection. I do fear that the double dipping of Parry and BCR will be nerfing me by quite a bit, so I am willing to change this out for a few things:
-Force Shield + Force Sheathe advantage - added defense and minor energy.
-TK Shield + TK Reinforcement Advantage - added defense and themeatic block.

- Stats - PsychBlade on LIVE is EGO/DEX/CON - I am not sure if blades will work -well- with such a combo, from watching Galaxi I am inclined to follow the aforementioned stat choices..

- Ego Reverberation - without EGO the energy return will be miniscule at best from what I gather. So that is another thing I am worried about.

- Mental Discipline vs FoTT - Higher scaling on FoTT with DEX primary and it would free up 4 points on my build vs using Mental Discipline...

- TK Maelstrom vs TK Eruption - I am inclined to use TK Eruption because of dmg boost, FX and defense boost it grants over TK Maelstrom's Stun mechanics.

Those are the things I am most worried about in this build. Any help/advice from MoL/Monsterdaddy or anyone else proficient with TK Blades would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance

monsterdaddy · September 2013

magentagem wrote: »

If you see Man of Light's Galaxi, that's an awesome build and is well developed.

TBH, MoL makes more sense than MonsterDaddy. His guides are thorough and proven to good. Not to mention them videos he puts out.

I'd appreciate if you could add substantive comments instead of trying to turn this into a popularity contest.

MoL was one of my first friends on CO (I am relatively new, just started before On Alert) and much of my initial FF build knowledge came from reading his *Star build guides. We know how to discuss builds with each other.

I think what I really want to convey to all my fellow builders is this Kigatilik "epiphany" of testing on an unknockable Cosmic level test dummy over a 4 minute period of time. Yes, we've all heard of builds that look great on paper just bomb on live. But the Kigatilik testing takes that to a new level. It has really shown some very interesting and more importantly, very consistent results -- including some I just can't rationally explain yet.

4 minutes of DPS testing smoothes out the effect of crits, cooldown, Unleashed Rage, devices etc. Plus for Defiance users it is more accurate for energy management. And I think it helps show hidden energy management issues (I don't think our Energy level display is accurate in battle). Frankly, it would be great if Cryptic could put a Cosmic level test dummy in the PH for all to test.

But it really does help compare builds/powers on a DPS single target level. That's useful info to all builders because the testing is repeatable by others. How many times do we have people claim, "Oh, I get 10K DPS!" etc. on meaningless test conditions. I know Cap Millennium and I have been able to get pretty close results on Kigatilik AND be able to explain most of the differences.

Why not take a whirl on PTS with your favorite builds and see how they stack up? Here's a few of my results:

Autocrat (electric, ranged) 4.2K
Hellfire (2GM w/Close the Gap, ranged) 5.1K
Blood Queen (VF/DC, melee 100% dodge) 5.5K
Seraph (TK, tank) 3.5K
new Scarab (TB/RE/UR, tank) 3.8K
Elle (DC, tank w/Wardicator) 2.7K
Hellfire Omega (PA, PFF tank) 3.1K

P.S. If you go over to whack Kiga for testing please don't kill him, just a bar is about enough for 4 minutes.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

magentagem wrote: »

If you see Man of Light's Galaxi, that's an awesome build and is well developed.

TBH, MoL makes more sense than MonsterDaddy. His guides are thorough and proven to good. Not to mention them videos he puts out.

MoL, when's your next Guide coming out anyways?!

Hi,

I certainly do appreciate your support, however, I would have to agree with Monsterdaddy in showing a little respect. I certainly do not want to pull this discussion into something else.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

monsterdaddy wrote: »

In any case, I think my original statement is true, TK Blades is a rather poor DPS powerset due to a number of factors we talked about.

As mentioned previously, I think that TK Blades, the whole set, could not be classified as 'poor'. Like I mentioned before, You (the builder in general) are the one who make EACH INDIVIDUAL power succeed or fail. DPS is determined by how much damage output you can put out, which THAT is calculated by how many times you efficiently spam a given power at a high potential damage per tick or charge. For example, if I can spam a power for 3k per tick, truly non-stop, without using EB, and uninterrupted, such build will achieve higher DPS.

So I do happen to believe many powers are superior to others.

Agreed. this is essentially what I'm saying. You (the builder in general) determine how "good" or "bad" your build is.

When you mention survivability I just don't believe it is such a great factor in DPS once you reach a safe minimum level.

When I say survibability, I'm referring to "don't drop dead" because that'll neuter your DPS.

I am looking for a minimum level of SAFE survivability with maximum DPS. I've been finding that a fun challenge.

This is also what I've been trying to relay. More on this later, for now, yes, I agree.

1) able to solo Grav,

Um, dude. have you not seen the youtube video? I know you mentioned previously that you couldn't open/see them for some odd reason. Well, once you can. WATCH the one entitled. "Pseaudo tanking gravitar" and the Hi-Pan one. Actually. here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gud0YLJzcRQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2EwS1mblJ0&list=UUKBXuHUZtnAYpSj3ioIO0ag&index=3

Ok. so. I hope you follow me along.

The best and most highly successful build in FF are those that have achieved an Equilibrium between Survivability, Dmg output, and Efficiency. Let me flesh this out some more.

All these three factors are factored in to produce the level of quality your (the builder in general) can achieve. As long as:
1. You don't drop dead in any given situation (the survivability part), which doesn't mean you have to be some super tank
2. You spam a high damaging power(s) of your choice as many times as possible
3. have enough energy management to efficiently spam the power(s) non-stop, uninterrupted
Then you'll have a successful build, capable of achieving high DPS numbers.

Now, Monster. I noticed you mention quite a few times the Tank role. I'm almost certain that the reason why you're achieving higher numbers in the tank role is because of the incoming dmg giving you the energy needed for you not to have any energy problems, is that so? If so, then this would make perfect sense as to why you're achieving high dps, because it fits my above 'list' of a successful build. On Galaxi, since even on my guide I left out a power choice open for the reader to choose, I'll like to fill that one with Arcane Circle, for the sole perpose of increasing energy efficiency on a stationary target, like most of all the "big" bosses in this game. Due to the build using a lot of Rec, Arcane circle produces 20 energy per tick, coupled with Ego Rev feeding me 20, I would truly not need to use the energy builder. I'm certain that once we do parse that, the total DPS will be dramatically different. I would almost guarantee that.

Anyways. I'm in-game NOW. hit me up.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Here is the link to my TK Blade tank, The Mighty Seraph!

Ravenforce, it looks like you may be energy builder dependent so get lots of REC as Galaxi has.

P.S. MoL, how come you're always posting as I am writing a post? LOL!

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Apparently I missed you again in game, as I was typing up the above post (and the build).

I guess we need to define some things.

I have always distinguished my builds between can tank Gravitar and can solo Gravitar -- a huge difference. Soloing is being able to absorb and heal from about twice the damage vs. just tanking (plus of course no outside heals or auras/buffs). Also in my definition (if not well defined) is the ability to continue DPS at close to the same rate. Basically, I am not blocking/spamming heals all the time just to get a few hits in.

So I misspoke because I view minimum survivability as also including minimal hindrance to your DPS output. (Amazingly, Regen builds with Laser Knight are great Gravitar solo'ers.) I finally have a good connection and Galaxi is definitely tanking (not soloing). In addition, when she tanks it's at a huge decrease in DPS output. I think you will agree.

Sorry for my error. So for the below points:

l1ghtstar wrote: »

1. You don't drop dead in any given situation (the survivability part), which doesn't mean you have to be some super tank
2. You spam a high damaging power(s) of your choice as many times as possible
3. have enough energy management to efficiently spam the power(s) non-stop, uninterrupted
Then you'll have a successful build, capable of achieving high DPS numbers.

On 1 we differ in definition, I obviously want a build to survive BUT also with minimal hindrance to damage output.

On 2, I define it as ALWAYS spamming the power of your choice. As much as possible is too subjective.

On 3, I think of efficient as ALWAYS again and without the use of an Energy Builder. I just can't view using an EB twice for 1 sec every 5 sec or so as efficient for DPS.

So I want 1+2+3 at the same time with my definitions and that is very challenging. And we're both right subjectively.

But high DPS can definitely be compared and it's pretty objective not subjective. I would say the single best TK Blade build can not outdamage several less than optimal VF/Dragon's Claws or Shred/RE/TB builds. I've tried sooo many times. The best I ever did in melee role with TK blades was 4.7K and it was very squishy. In contrast I tested a CON PSS Shred/RE/TB that is 5K DPS (Really CON PSS? Yeah, it was to get a sturdy 100% dodge and is Grav soloable).

Doesn't mean don't use those powers, heck I worked really hard to get Seraph a TK build for the looks and theme.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

Dude, when are you going to log on? I'm currently in-game. is this going to happen or not?

monsterdaddy · September 2013

I am online, wru!!!!! :biggrin:

EDIT 5 min later: Dang it LOL! I actually have a lot of work atm haha so we'll try again bro.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

This has been going on for several nights now. I have been waiting and waiting for you to meet in-game.

Subjective? I doubt it. I am NEVER the subjective type. I base all my builds (and data) on testing. In fact, I tend to be a number cruncher and am very methodical, computer like.

What does tanking vs solo'n have to do with DPS output? I hope I have made it quite clear, in the past, or inferred to those who have seen my builds, that I tend to shy away from Defensive Passives. In fact, I only have 1 toon using Defiance, and that toon doesn't have a build posted here in the forums. I just don't like them. I can manage to solo Vikorin, Mandragalore, and even Therakiel, and have posted a few videos on some of those example.

On the other hand, you have established your fascination with defensive passives quite well, at least from what I have been able to gather, since in most other threads that I 've seen you post, you mention Regen extensively.

With each response you give, it seems that you are proving my point when I said this from my previous post:

"I'm almost certain that the reason why you're achieving higher numbers in the tank role is because of the incoming dmg giving you the energy needed for you not to have any energy problems, is that so? If so, then this would make perfect sense as to why you're achieving high dps, because it fits my above 'list' of a successful build."

Got you in-game. brb lol

l1ghtstar · September 2013

Finally got you in-game. To late to post all feedback from what I have, but my predictions are correct. I performed a lot more than you stated earlier....

Half asleep. will edit this tomorrow night.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Well, I am glad we clarified what Subjective means in game LOL. Testing was all objective I agree, subjective was our definitions.

I have a question from the above post. Only Defiance gives energy so I am confused as to your statement. Regen? No benefit to energy unless there is some mechanic I overlooked. I will agree that not needing to heal/block as much is good for DPS but the same can be achieved in non defensive passive builds like Quarry or some Revitalize builds.

We clarified a lot of issues/definitions in game. I think my remaining point is, certain powers just cannot objectively match the DPS of other powers under similar ideal conditions. It could be a single power or a powerset or combination of powers.

Shred? OK by itself. With Tiger Bite? Better. TB and RE? Even better. TB/RE/UR + Brawler - Best! Estimating 6.5K DPS in pure glass cannon build and someone else tanking.(The Aurora with 5 NPGs was 8K). No power or set of powers and spec combinations comes close.

BTW, I can bring a healer next time so you can go full out.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

l1ghtstar wrote: »

Finally got you in-game. To late to post all feedback from what I have, but my predictions are correct. I performed a lot more than you stated earlier....

Half asleep. will edit this tomorrow night.

In my defense, I did do a good copy of Galaxi's old build. I like your new build better. :biggrin:

carrionbaggage · September 2013

I like this thread. It's interesting to see how everyone approaches the TK Blades energy problem. I'm curious to see the results of Galaxi's latest testing. I love a good number crunch.

I'll throw my own TK Blades build onto the bonfire. It handles energy management in a different way: TK Blades

It does about 3.5k DPS against Kigatilik in Hybrid role, running the attack cycle that Monsterdaddy mentioned with stable energy management. I like playing support-style toons, so I added Iniquity. The build won't win any healing awards, but it can save a teammate in a pinch.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

carrionbaggage wrote: »

I like this thread. It's interesting to see how everyone approaches the TK Blades energy problem. I'm curious to see the results of Galaxi's latest testing. I love a good number crunch.

I'll throw my own TK Blades build onto the bonfire. It handles energy management in a different way: TK Blades

It does about 3.5k DPS against Kigatilik in Hybrid role, running the attack cycle that Monsterdaddy mentioned with stable energy management. I like playing support-style toons, so I added Iniquity. The build won't win any healing awards, but it can save a teammate in a pinch.

Hehe Wicca, I like the build esp. with the STR PSS. I've used that Circle of Ebon Wrath/Spirit Reverberation and Void Shift w/EN/Spirit Reverb energy management combos on builds before and it works pretty well. What I never did (due to lack of a power slot/adv pts) was something that I think will help your energy problems/DPS even more -- adding Ebon Ruin R2 w/both advantages. Now you get a DoT that procs your Spirit Reverb, Trauma AND a 10% Paranormal dmg buff.

In our testing, Galaxi went from 2.7K DPS to 4.1K DPS with the addition of Circle of Arcane Power and EBA, plus he switched to Brawler spec. I would hazard a guess a lot of the DPS came from CoAP but the hard to tell since there was a lot of changes.

carrionbaggage · September 2013

I'm glad you like my weirdo build. It started as an exercise to make Seraphim's advantage un-terrible, and it snowballed from there. My favorite thing about it is that Seraphim's damage procs align perfectly with Spirit Reverb's internal cooldown.

The Ebon Ruin suggestion is a good one. If I wasn't such a sucker for squishy teammates, I would trade Iniquity for it. I know what you mean about lack of power slot/advantage points. WTB advantage points.

The new Galaxi numbers are quite a jump! Nicely done, both of you. High fives all around.

monsterdaddy wrote: »

I've used that Circle of Ebon Wrath/Spirit Reverberation and Void Shift w/EN/Spirit Reverb energy management combos on builds before and it works pretty well.

Where do you think I got the idea?

For the OP: How's your ego blader faring? I'm worried we've hijacked your thread.

theravenforce · September 2013

Could I get some feedback on the build I posted earlier on in the thread? I'd love to run it on LIVE soon :biggrin:

carrionbaggage · September 2013

theravenforce wrote: »

Could I get some feedback on the build I posted earlier on in the thread? I'd love to run it on LIVE soon :biggrin:

Some random thoughts that might be helpful:

Without seeing the specific stat totals, it looks like the build would run into energy issues. Swapping in FoTT (like you mentioned) could solve that, depending on how much DEX and cost discount you're packing. Or you could add Force Sheathe and CoAP; Sheathe for drilling through a sea of henchmen, circle for DPSing a boss. I think either of the superstat arrangements you mentioned could work, depending on how you're balancing the energy management. I would test the final decision on the PTS to see how the attack cycle's energy use holds up, since that's tough to calculate in theorycrafting.

You'll be dealing lower damage compared to a build that adds the Brawler-EBA setup, but you'll still do respectable damage if your energy management is stable. I'm not sure what your DPS goal is for the character.

You could probably afford to drop BCR if you're worried about the damage debuff. Siphoning Strikes alone should be enough to keep your face off the pavement. I like to pack some healing patches to recover from spike damage if an untimely knock or hold disrupts the Siphoning for too long. And have you checked how much dodge/avoid The Elusive Monk would give you? With Legion dodge/avoid gear (if that's how you're planning to gear the character) I'd expect those bonuses to hit steep diminishing returns.

With Ego Blade Frenzy already providing spammable AoE damage, I think your choice between TK Eruption and TK Maelstrom could go either way. Maelstrom's cooldown could be a bit obnoxious if you're devoting a good chunk of your utility gear to cost reduction.

With a significant DEX stat, you could consider going with Warden Mastery and using Heroic/Legion's Gloves of Piercing.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

Raven, good pts above.

If you really want Parry go all out n take Quarry n Thundering Kicks for 100% dodge. Then swap.in Brawler n let Thun Kicks n EBW proc Setup.

Otherwise I find LK better as it is a 4th level of dmg mitigation.

As testing w Galaxi shows, staying away from EB for energy really helps boost dmg.

monsterdaddy · September 2013

carrionbaggage wrote: »

Where do you think I got the idea?

Well that made my day LOL

And I had no clue about that Seraphim adv, awesome, I have been schooled!

borg10f9 · September 2013

carrionbaggage wrote: »

For the OP: How's your ego blader faring? I'm worried we've hijacked your thread.

Highjacked? No.

Filled with creamy TK Blades discussion goodness? Oh, yeah.

I love it. This thread has several intelligent, well informed people discussing issues and benefits of the power in question. I'm taking it all in, even if it's not specific to my questions, learning from it so I can make a better build.

As to energy: I too have noticed that she needs more energy so as to avoid having to use the EB. Most of my other 40's have been engineered to never need the Energy Builder, but here it's a requirement every 10 or so seconds of damage output. I did my leveling with Ego Reverberation, but it didn't seem to do much (or as much as I expected) so during my respec I changed to Overdrive - which seems somewhat better, but not much. Should I go back to Ego Reverberation? If so, how do I maximize it's potential?

theravenforce · September 2013

More EGO stat = Better energy return from Ego Reverberation. Perhaps try talenting in some EGO +5/+5's

theravenforce · September 2013

Build Edit: Just had a look back at the build I posted...and it's specs are completely wrong..

I went on PTS and tried out DEX/CON/REC (337/181/183 respectively)...Ego Blades really have gone down hill from what I remember them being like...shame really.

Anyways:

Toon: Sista Sonique

Gear: Nemesis Heirloom

Level: 40

Build:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: PsychBlade - Rebirth of the TK Blader

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Tireless
Level 12: Enduring
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Acrobat
Level 21: Impresario

Powers:
Level 1: Ego Blade
Level 1: Ego Weaponry (Rank 2, Siphoning Strikes)
Level 6: Id Mastery (Rank 2, Rank 3, Id Blades)
Level 8: Ego Blade Frenzy (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Ego Blade Dash
Level 14: Ego Reverberation
Level 17: Ego Blade Breach (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 23: Form of the Tempest
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Circle of Arcane Power (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Sleight of Mind)
Level 38: Energy Shield (Laser Knight)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

Notes/Feedback:

- EBB - was hitting around 10 - 13k which is reasonable on crit.

- Ego Reverb...I honestly felt like I didn't need it..

- FoTT vs Mental Discipline - I felt FoTT was better not only did it help with energy but damage wise my actual damage was higher.

I think that Ego Blades has a lower appeal for me anyway which is a shame, it's playable but just not as fun as I remember it being...

EGO/DEX/CON was horrid, much lower damage than current set up.

I tried the following set ups:

DEX/CON/REC - FoTT

DEX/CON/REC - Mental Discipline

EGO/CON/DEX - FoTT

EGO/CON/DEX - Mental Discipline

Highest damage I was getting with combo and EBF were critting for around 1.7k..not sure if that is decent or not, but I reckon it's pretty bad.

Ego Blade Breach was the builds saving grace but goodness sake..it cost so much energy wise. Circle felt like more of a requirement than a novelty..

cyrone · September 2013

Kr'yshte

Figured I should toss in my TK Blader too.

theravenforce · September 2013

I tried a build like this:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: PsychBlade - Rebirth of the TK Blader

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Tireless
Level 12: Enduring
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Acrobat
Level 21: Impresario

Powers:
Level 1: Ego Blade
Level 1: Ego Weaponry (Rank 2, Siphoning Strikes)
Level 6: Id Mastery (Rank 2, Rank 3, Id Blades)
Level 8: Ego Blade Frenzy (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Ego Blade Dash
Level 14: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 17: Ego Blade Breach (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 23: Form of the Tempest
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 32: Circle of Arcane Power (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Sleight of Mind)
Level 38: Ego Blade Annihilation (Rank 2, Mental Acuity)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Teleportation (Rank 2)

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Brawler: The Glory of Battle (3/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (1/3)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

And it worked out pretty well, I reckon the dodge/avoid from real gear will iron out the lesser defense.

EBA = 16 -17k on crit
EBB = 10 -13.5k crits

Pretty good IMO, took the idea from re-reading a few stuffs.

Thanks guys

Notes: Energy Builder really shined in this build, 30 energy in a strike and focus giving me 44, set me up nicely without circle, however on bosses circle is a godsend.

I haven't got an energy unlock since Ego Reverb's scaling is to poor for me to waste a power point on.

l1ghtstar · September 2013

Phew, I got a lot to reply to. I'll end most of what I'm getting across tonight.

Ok, first. I would like to flesh out a little more on my incomplete post from last night. Kiga is a good measurement for a well balanced build, however, he's not the perfect or most ideal. The reason being is because I can pop a Stormbringer or an Ice Form toon which'll resist his attacks a lot easier (offensively passively speaking) thus improve DPS on him, Kiga. The best way to test any build is to get an in-the-powerhouse-cosmic that we can manipulate the type of damage and so forth. THIS IS ONLY FOR DPS PURPOSES. The reason Monster is finding greater success with his sturdier toons is because he's building to be better at fighting kiga. Monster briefly mentioned Con primary and Defiance. Con primary has a spec point with energy + Defiance granting energy, I'm sure those were used, which contributed in energy management. On the other hand, since I tend to use Offensive passive toons, they'll perform quite differently. Don't get me wrong, Galaxi can solo Kiga and the other cosmics just fine, but that's not what she's meant to do. She's meant NOT to be a tank and dps. I knew that popping Arcane Circle would provide higher DPS, which I was correct, and if we test again with someone healing, the DPS will go even higher. An analogy: try being a tow truck with a VW Beetle. BTW, I only altered those three things (Arcane Circle, EBA, Brawler) and nothing else.

Moving on. In PvE, I have no energy issues at all, I guess since all I really need is just 2 or 3 taps of EBB to kill anything in alerts or content. Of course, barring the "bosses". The big guys (Gravitar, Kiga, Vikorin, etc) are all stationary, so using Circle of Arcane power is good choice for greater DPS. There's always the other choice of going all out squishy to and dropping Con for either End or Int, so let's not neglect that...

Pure opinion: I do find TK Blades more enjoyable than the other melee sets. TK blades offers great single target attacks (EBB + EBA), a great indirect dmg buff via it's form Mental Disciple (+ Crit Chance), and offers a great heal which doesn't scale with healing bonuses. EBA is hitting for 20K on Galaxi, and that's without going too deep into debuffs and such, which the Mentalist Framework has plenty of.

I'll end with reiterating the three points I mentioned earlier in the thread:

1. You don't drop dead in any given situation (the survivability part), which doesn't mean you have to be some super tank
2. You spam a high damaging power(s) of your choice as many times as possible
3. have enough energy management to efficiently spam the power(s) non-stop, uninterrupted
Then you'll have a successful build, capable of achieving high DPS numbers.

As always if anyone has any questions, lemme know. Gonna log on and enjoy the game =p

TK Blades

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