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what the hell has happened to the game i love?

machinerlmachinerl Posts: 7 Arc User
Rather than break this post up into several smaller chunks in their respective sections Im just going to put this here...Its finally happened after three years since launch PWI/Cryptic have finally made me debate leaving CO permanently, I have had more issues with this game since it adopted the f2p framework than I ever had before, everything from powers not working as the tool tips indicate (aspect of bestial), to the lack luster gimmick filled content (cybermind alert), this game has finally driven me to consider moving on...the problem is is that it still has one of the most robust character creators in any MMO I have ever played, its only saving grace. Also the emphasis on lockboxes over gameplay makes me want to physically cry, toss in a antifriendly RP community and theres just nothing left for me in this game to come back to. Anyways not trying to start a flamewar or a nasty drawn out forum battle just felt like getting my opinions out there. Stay hopeful CO fans sanity and good content, as well as actual gameplay repairs may actually happen...just dont hold your breath for them...respectfully yours a CO apologist.
Post edited by machinerl on
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Comments

  • ccarmichael07ccarmichael07 Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think we're seeing the swan song for CO.

    It's obvious that CO is getting only about 1/10th of the attention and resources that STO is getting, and probably about 1/50th the attention and resources of Neverwinter.

    The content going into the game is about 90% lock box gambling fluff. This is the only way Cryptic can make money, with gullible people spending oodles of real cash to try and beat the odds, which mathematically are worse than your average Las Vegas slot machine. When was the last time we got a new costume set in the C-Store? But we had a whole set in the latest lockbox, and the lockbox before.

    Quite honestly, the only reason I am still here is because I refuse to play DCUO due to the security breach fiasco and I won't play Marvel Heroes because there is NO customization options. This leaves CO as the only superhero game option for me. And unfortunately for me, Ive been on a real superhero kick the last few years due to MCU Phase 1, The Dark Knight Trilogy and Man of Steel.

    But, if another option appeared on the market, with character customization options near too the level of CO, and not produced by Sony Online, I would be gone in a heartbeat, lifetime subscription be darned.

    In all honesty though, I think the game will shut down on it's own long before another option avails itself to the players. This came can't continue to survive on minimal lifesupport, shoddy monetization methods and a drought's trickle of content flowing into the players.

    Enjoy what you can, while you can is my suggestion. And when it's gone, lament the wasted potential of what this game could have been.


    "You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
    I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    It's obvious that CO is getting only about 1/10th of the attention and resources that STO is getting, and probably about 1/50th the attention and resources of Neverwinter.

    These are multibillion dollar franchises with their own infinite supply of fans.
    People have been traveling around the whole world for decades just to stand next to each other in Klingon clothes or fine lady dwarf beards. Subscribing to these games just like buying another action figure or tube of dice to them.

    Champions is just a copy of DC and Marvel.
    There's no way for it to ever escape that stain without pheneomal resources spent at every level of media marketing and merchandising like DC and Marvel have had decades to do. Marvel and DC are already coming out with new games.
    They can say to the public "This one sucks, the next one will be great" and get away with being wrong 90% of the time.

    Cryptic has none of those luxuries. The whole company was bought for $50.3 million.
    meanwhile, Disney's already $100 million deep into their new MMO

    You won't play DCUO for the security breach fiasco? We had one here and weren't notified for a year.
    I think it happened under Atari's watch and PWE had to catch the breach months after acquiring Cryptic and the breach went back even before F2P.

    Nothing is safe in this world - Billy Idol
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I'm not sure why you equate lockboxes with content. They only contain some costumes and mods (which you can get outside the box) and gear.

    Not counting lockboxes we've been given a partial new power tree (laser swords), a revamp to telepathy (still in progress), a bunch of missions that are set to go into rotation as part of recurring events (nighthawk, mega destroid, harbinger, malvanum, fatal error), and the new alerts that go with the missions.

    We got an emote pack, a bunch of costume bits, and some older bugs a few many years old have been fixed.

    Slow, yes. But it's progress. And that's all outside of boxes and pretending the vehicles don't exist. Granted, lots of the missions have bugs, and they're short. But they also all have some nifty mechanics.

    I don't see anyone else stepping up with a new game to replace this one. More people might play Marvel at first, but we'll see once the shiny wears off. DCUO and CO will probably still be around long after marvel's new game is gone.

    There's lots of wasted potential here it's true. But, take a break for a month or two and come back, even if just for a day. But when you come back, don't do alerts. Find some friends and run a lair or an adventure pack. Play the game don't grind for gear. If you're still not happy, then you're ready to give up for good.

    The grind can wear anyone down. A refresher is the best cure.
  • shieldtowershieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    These are multibillion dollar franchises with their own infinite supply of fans.
    People have been traveling around the whole world for decades just to stand next to each other in Klingon clothes or fine lady dwarf beards. Subscribing to these games just like buying another action figure or tube of dice to them.

    Champions is just a copy of DC and Marvel.
    There's no way for it to ever escape that stain without pheneomal resources spent at every level of media marketing and merchandising like DC and Marvel have had decades to do. Marvel and DC are already coming out with new games.
    They can say to the public "This one sucks, the next one will be great" and get away with being wrong 90% of the time.

    Cryptic has none of those luxuries. The whole company was bought for $50.3 million.
    meanwhile, Disney's already $100 million deep into their new MMO

    You won't play DCUO for the security breach fiasco? We had one here and weren't notified for a year.
    I think it happened under Atari's watch and PWE had to catch the breach months after acquiring Cryptic and the breach went back even before F2P.

    Nothing is safe in this world - Billy Idol

    Two years. Happened in 2010, Cryptic didn't find out/become aware/start paying attention and notify anyone until 2012.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________
  • angelphoenix12angelphoenix12 Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I think we're seeing the swan song for CO.

    It's obvious that CO is getting only about 1/10th of the attention and resources that STO is getting, and probably about 1/50th the attention and resources of Neverwinter.

    .

    I agree with this. this game never had a golden age. it was close to doa on launch. if pwe/cryptic was as dedicated to this game like they are to sto and nwo this game would have been a great successor to city of. now this game is regulasted into the category of what if? and to think I bought into jack saying how much he loves the superhero game.
    imho he needs to stop blaming champions on what he did to city of heroes.
  • rygradrygrad Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I been in game for about 8 days(gold member)

    With multiple threads like this showing up,an in game chat that is cringe worthy at best, and not finding a Super group with a medium to high maturity level has pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for me in a very short time.

    Community posts like this help push new players right back out the door.

    (Thanks for the push before I waste anymore time or money on CO)
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Can I haz yer stuffs?

    Been playing since F2P. Been Gold off and on, depending on personal finances. Would love to go LTS.

    I enjoy playing this game. A lot. I have no idea why so many people spend so much time griping about it, but de gustibus non disputandem est and all that, eh what?
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • lonnehartlonnehart Posts: 846 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    rygrad wrote: »
    I been in game for about 8 days(gold member)

    With multiple threads like this showing up,an in game chat that is cringe worthy at best, and not finding a Super group with a medium to high maturity level has pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for me in a very short time.

    Community posts like this help push new players right back out the door.

    (Thanks for the push before I waste anymore time or money on CO)

    Only 8 days? I suggest playing for a while longer. I'm a solo player myself. I have zone chat turned off as it's not very entertaining and go on alerts if I want to team up. Not part of an SG thanks to my days in WoW of being in a total of two guilds (both very bad experiences).

    I'm still having fun in the game though. I'll probably stop having fun when there's nothing left to explore...

    Still, it's okay to leave if you find out you're NOT having fun, but that's something you have to judge for yourself and not let more disgruntled players push that opinion onto you.
    *sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"

    "Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
  • rygradrygrad Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Can I haz yer stuffs?


    ^^^spoken like a true WoW trade chat troll /smh
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,770 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Speak up. I'm having trouble hearing you over all the fun I'm having.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    rygrad wrote: »
    I been in game for about 8 days(gold member)

    With multiple threads like this showing up,an in game chat that is cringe worthy at best, and not finding a Super group with a medium to high maturity level has pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for me in a very short time.

    Community posts like this help push new players right back out the door.

    (Thanks for the push before I waste anymore time or money on CO)

    You're leaving after eight days of Gold?

    Ha, good job at throwing your money away. I'd recommend sticking around for the rest of the month so you get what you rented, but that's just me.
  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Can't make up your own mind about a game and leaving after 8 days because people, who have been here 4 years are finding game lacking?
    Think, use your brain, play the game, enjoy it after 1st 30 days of your Gold, continue, don't enjoy, leave. But do try to make your own mind about it.
    But, anyway. Do drop your stuff at the door and don't let it hit you in the buttocks when and if you go.
    :wink:
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
    And playing by myself since Aug 2009
    Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
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  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Can I haz yer stuffs?

    Been playing since F2P. Been Gold off and on, depending on personal finances. Would love to go LTS.

    I enjoy playing this game. A lot. I have no idea why so many people spend so much time griping about it, but de gustibus non disputandem est and all that, eh what?

    ^ this.

    been around since beta. taken leave of absences periodically, enjoy the game again when I come back each time....and when I've had enough...I go do something else. But it says something about CO that I never uninstall or stay away for too long.... cant say that about any other game really minus STO...I still go there in spurts too..

    have yet to open a single lockbox....and wont. There is ample ways to gain 'stuff' in game without having to spend reallife cash. I spent my share on a LTS....thats enough, no need for anything in a lockbox.

    I have got a lifetime, bought at beta when game was still subscription model based (way more than paid for itself now)....so the free zen every month has been there for any new stuff they offer gained essentially for free. also permanently gold member because of it is a bonus.

    I can still geek out in the CC for hours ..... and still love going into zone areas to fight crime randomly. ( currently am rediscovering Lemuria again, and 'patrolling' the streets of Vibora Bay for fun.... next week it may be something else ).

    I do alerts when I feel the urge......never driven by gear or loot, but it is convenient when I want to jump to a level quickly at times, then I'll do a few XP ones for the boost....

    spend a lot of time in the champion builder planning and testing builds.... that is almost my favorite thing to do besides costume creation.

    and

    I take zone chat with a grain of salt.... if I have it on at all.
    _______________________
    ---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    machinerl wrote: »
    .the problem is is that it still has one of the most robust character creators in any MMO I have ever played, its only saving grace. Also the emphasis on lockboxes over gameplay makes me want to physically cry, toss in a antifriendly RP community and theres just nothing left for me in this game to come back to.

    Creating character concepts is extremely fun. If creating digital avatars is enough fun for you then I see no reason for you to leave the game.

    However if you prefer gaming, competition, combat equality, content, communication, fair market pricing or customer support for you video gaming experience I think there are better ways to get your character creation on.

    Have you thought about playing the Table Top Game of Champions? Mutants and Masterminds? There are many other avenues to get your character creativity on than Champions Online. While you can CREATE the hero you want to be in many ways.. that does not mean you will like it.

    - -

    PWE will likely keep the game open a while longer.. it costs them so little at this point. The marketplace is definitely primed for a new custom superhero MMORPG to do really well though leaving CO in the dust.
  • malvoumalvou Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Perfect World.

    Game was great, new content everywhere I was happy and then PWE came and sapped everything to make grind and lockbox extravaganza.

    Where's the new zones? Where's the permanent Content?

    The last zone was 2010, the last permanent content was Whiteout. Adventure Packs and Comic Stories vanished and replaced with 2 minute daily missions that take months(?) to make.

    I love this game to death but there is nothing to DO. I want my story arcs, interesting locales, WHAT THE HECK IS VIPER UP TO?! The last major thing they did was Serpent Lantern.

    I'm just complaining now, but that's just me.
  • lafury001200lafury001200 Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    malvou wrote: »
    Perfect World.

    Game was great, new content everywhere I was happy and then PWE came and sapped everything to make grind and lockbox extravaganza.

    Where's the new zones? Where's the permanent Content?

    The last zone was 2010, the last permanent content was Whiteout. Adventure Packs and Comic Stories vanished and replaced with 2 minute daily missions that take months(?) to make.

    I love this game to death but there is nothing to DO. I want my story arcs, interesting locales, WHAT THE HECK IS VIPER UP TO?! The last major thing they did was Serpent Lantern.

    I'm just complaining now, but that's just me.

    I agree w/ you but the acquisition, while obviously more beneficial to other Cryptic titles than this one, likely prevented a close, and did buy us more time to play.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    lockboxes are a problem only for those who fall for the gamble.

    not something to whine about at all....jsut discard them and move on....easy peasy.
    _______________________
    ---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I dont really see how it "turned into a grindfest" either.

    seems to me like all of the zoned missions chains are still there .....

    if you are in fact only 'grinding' in this game .... that's your fault, not the games...
    _______________________
    ---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    malvou wrote: »
    Where's the new zones? Where's the permanent Content?

    It doesn't pay to make this stuff.
    We have over 3000 new accounts run through game since last week, where are they?
    Every single corner of this game is new to them, why aren't they playing all that "new" content?

    7PM on a Sunday Night
    Intranet Deployment? 10 players
    Carrier Wave 0 Players
    Cybermind, 19 players

    Players in Millennium City all zones 331.
    Club Caprice 86 players.
    Vibora Bay all zones but the Alerts, 17 players.

    Vibora Bay
    Nemesis Alert, level 40s, over 100 players
    Nemesis Alert level 35 to 39, 69 players
    Nemesis Alert level 25 to 34, 99 players

    You get the idea.
  • kojirohellfirekojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    :rolleyes: Not this data analysis with fractional, incomplete numbers again. It's like trying to gauge the business success of a fast food restaurant by studying the slow hours between lunch and dinner peaks.
  • agentnx5agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    rygrad wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    Can I haz yer stuffs?

    Been playing since F2P. Been Gold off and on, depending on personal finances. Would love to go LTS.

    I enjoy playing this game. A lot. I have no idea why so many people spend so much time griping about it, but de gustibus non disputandem est and all that, eh what?

    ^^^spoken like a true WoW trade chat troll /smh

    The way I see it the only troll comment is your own, Rygrad. And yeah, if he want's to make a ragequit topic like a stereotypical WoW failure then frankly I see nothing wrong with asking for stuff that would otherwise go to complete waste. The rudeness was already initiated in the opening post of this topic.

    Kind of reminds me of the "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" motto when people say "Can I have your stuff (which you clearly no longer want)?"

    And if they don't want to let go of the stuff? Well... They're not REALLY quitting now are they?

    Just sayin'... (think about it)

    malvou wrote:
    Where's the new zones? Where's the permanent Content?
    It doesn't pay to make this stuff.
    We have over 3000 new accounts run through game since last week, where are they?
    Every single corner of this game is new to them, why aren't they playing all that "new" content?

    7PM on a Sunday Night
    Intranet Deployment? 10 players
    Carrier Wave 0 Players
    Cybermind, 19 players

    Players in Millennium City all zones 331.
    Club Caprice 86 players.
    Vibora Bay all zones but the Alerts, 17 players.

    Vibora Bay
    Nemesis Alert, level 40s, over 100 players
    Nemesis Alert level 35 to 39, 69 players
    Nemesis Alert level 25 to 34, 99 players

    You get the idea.

    Pardon me, but this is some BS.

    Two reasons why:

    1. It DOES pay to make expansion packs IF you charge for it. If you give them away for free, then there's no funding to justify to the CFO-corporate types in charge of the money as to why they should bother. People bitched and moaned on the forums how it was "unfair" to have Adventure Packs gated behind a subscription (Gold or LTS) or "forced" to buy them. So when On Alert, Cryptic made all the Adventure Packs F2P (free to play). This would be a good idea except well, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

    2. Where players play and what they'd prefer to play doesn't necessarily correlate. What DOES correlate is that there's more rewards (XP, resources, costume unlocks, etc.) involved in farming the newer alertts than the older Zone content. Futhermore, a lot of the people playing are veterans who've done the largely unchanged Zone content. IF Cryptic fix the rewards (especially giving PvP a Questionite daily and getting rid of the useless and antiquated Acclaim currency) and started improving Zone content, THEN you'd definitely see a shift in what people play.

    tl;dr

    You aren't considering the underlying root causes at all here, thus your data is worthless.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    feel free to try NW, where lockboxes, bags, mounts,companions, clothing, dyes are all cash shop.
    Where you can't explore. have one mission line to level.

    They have put in the new update, which had the expected result(well those of us here who have seen updates) the server is having login issues, crafting issues, foundry issues.

    Due to the graphics issue, squares of walls and terrain missing from instances, the known issues thread says to change your driver settings to 9e/11. DON'T.
    Yes it fixed the visual issues but after logging out. I can't log back in.

    Good thing Champions is working and has new missions i can try(and in the case of the last one, die repeatedly). Continuing alt levelling, got 1 at 36.
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    rygrad wrote: »
    I been in game for about 8 days(gold member)

    With multiple threads like this showing up,an in game chat that is cringe worthy at best, and not finding a Super group with a medium to high maturity level has pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for me in a very short time.

    Community posts like this help push new players right back out the door.

    (Thanks for the push before I waste anymore time or money on CO)

    If you leaving after 8 days, you likely just wouldn't belong in a supergroup anyway, by the way, have you checked out the entiror area dedicated to Super groups and recruiting?
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    agentnx5 wrote: »

    1. It DOES pay to make expansion packs IF you charge for it.

    That didn't work, this game lost 1.7 million players while it charged for content nobody liked playing and nobody still likes playing. It wanted to charge for Vibora and nobody plays it even while its free.
    I know you have been here the whole time this game has been gushing players through its system like a gutted a pig.

    We were down to 3 zones in December 2011.
    Yay Whiteout, premium content that was pay only at the time?

    We are down to 4 zones MC all day and night, every day for the last seven days and only made to five zones of MC this afternoon.

    Where's all your veterans and the 360,000 New Champions?

    agentnx5 wrote: »
    2. Where players play and what they'd prefer to play doesn't necessarily correlate.
    You are an idiot if you believe this.
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    What DOES correlate is that there's more rewards (XP, resources, costume unlocks, etc.) involved in farming the newer alertts than the older Zone content.

    The 360,000 New Champions that have signed up since January 2012, don't know about this.
    They have nothing to compare to. They still haven't stuck around.
    Just like they didn't stick around before On Alert.

    [/quote]
    Futhermore, a lot of the people playing are veterans who've done the largely unchanged Zone content. [/quote]

    Where is your data to back up the statement that 'a lot' out of over two million players that have come through the game are veterans?

    How does your magical data fit in with the fact we go through seven New Champions SGs a week, and there is never more then 500 players in MC and never more then 50 players in any zone that's not an alert, and rarely more than 20 players in any zone that is not the city? (besides Caprice)

    Where are these "a lot" of veterans then?
    Why aren't the "a lot of veterans" playing that new content just 48 hours after it came out?
    Oh its not good enough for them? And nothing ever will be.

    agentnx5 wrote: »
    IF Cryptic fix the rewards (especially giving PvP a Questionite daily)
    PVP Losers can run Purple Reign, Poe-Wnd, Intranet Explorer, Carrier wave, all without leaving the city thats like 1800 Q right there.

    When they have hundreds of square miles of game world to play in, they are in ren cen stroking each others e peens, silencing each other. If you give PVP a reward it will simply be exploited.
    There's people running three accounts in alerts, they will do the same for PVP.
    "Oh boy look at me winning Q beating up my alt accounts"
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    and started improving Zone content, THEN you'd definitely see a shift in what people play.
    Where's the money coming from for 'improving zone content'?
    Where are you're veteran players pumping money into the game every month?
    You have data on that?

    No you don't. Not even one number.
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    You aren't considering the underlying root causes at all here, thus your data is worthless.

    Can you fix the root cause you arrogant backside?
    Can any of you in this forum fix "The root cause', do you even know the opinions of even a tenth of all the the players that you are claiming to speak for?
    Can you speak for all those level 1s that quit in the tutorial, 250 of them per New Champions SG on adverage.
    Can you tell us all in absolute certainty, with you omniscience, why all those New Champions quit the game before level 12?

    No. You can't.

    All your assumptions have already been proven false.

    We bled out over a million and half users before on Alert on all that "pay to play" new content updates coming fast and furious activity you think is going to help this game.

    Its already happened, it already failed. The glory days of this game you people
    long for, drove people away, drove so many away they were forced to make the
    game free to play just to survive.
    eDyTShg.jpg

    There has not exceeded 500 people in Millennium City simultaneously for over two months.
    We have not breached 640 players on Steam in a year, out of 12 million active gamers.


    You people are in denial. You don't even bother to track data, and yet you know it all.
  • cgta1967cgta1967 Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    ...You people are in denial. You don't even bother to track data, and yet you know it all.

    The End.


    /closes cover of book
    _______________________
    ---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
  • xaogarrentxaogarrent Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Cryptic got PWE'd, that's what happened. We all learned the hard way that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Atari ain't VALVe, but they're sure as hell preferable to PWE.
    rygrad wrote: »
    ^^^spoken like a true WoW trade chat troll /smh

    Oh, I can assure you he's worse than any WoW trade chat troll. Those guys are minor league compared to this one.

    ...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    You people are in denial. You don't even bother to track data, and yet you know it all.

    What do you mean "You people"? :)

    At this point I think CO is finished enough to charge for an expansion (which it was when VB came out.) I would buy it to support the game. We have at least received alot more content this year than we did in 2012.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xaogarrent wrote: »
    Cryptic got PWE'd, that's what happened. We all learned the hard way that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Atari ain't VALVe, but they're sure as hell preferable to PWE.

    BS.

    CO has never been very successful. Never. It's always been way behind the curve on content.

    It's just that, 4 years ago, it was easy to imagine they'd make up for the shallow game with vigorous content release. And, despite the Vibora Bay debacle, content seemed to come out ... tolerably well.

    But the content slowed and slowed and slowed and slowed.


    You can't blame PWE for CO's state.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    You people are in denial. You don't even bother to track data, and yet you know it all.

    The only person I see being an obnoxious know-it-all is you.

    It's been shown enough times in the past how your "data" doesn't prove what you're intending to prove.
  • keikomystkeikomyst Posts: 626 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I liked the part where he called all PvPers losers. ._.

    Seriously though. I think Cryptic is finally picking up some steam with CO. It might just be my hope senses giving me a false positive, but given that this is my favorite MMO ever... I want it to succeed.

    Did I ever mention that it's hard to market CO? Ever since they made adventure packs free and added in the Q exchange. Yeah, the Zen comes from SOMEWHERE, but I'd imagine the marketing guys are having a hell of a time figuring out how to sell this game when someone who doesn't pay a dime can grind for whatever they want. (even if it takes a lot of effort on that F2Per's part)

    I do think there are better ways to monetize CO. If only they would listen, though...
  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    Can I haz yer stuffs?

    Been playing since F2P. Been Gold off and on, depending on personal finances. Would love to go LTS.

    I enjoy playing this game. A lot. I have no idea why so many people spend so much time griping about it, but de gustibus non disputandem est and all that, eh what?
    potential.

    I remember when i was in grade school, I did ok but would have preferred to be playing atari to doing my homework. Even when i was pulling in good grades, the nuns used to get on my case because they said I wasn't meeting my potential, so i'd get yelled at even though i was pulling b+/a's. Used to hate that word, because i was doing well enough to get by, but as time goes by I see how its more frustrating to see something not live up to what it could be, rather than see something not achieve much, but do the best it has the capacity to.

    Coh is dead, so now this is the only viable refuge for customization hounds. and coming here with expectations based on what other games you have played used to add in terms of content tends to end poorly for co. Plus, people have hard times managing expectations in general in gaming, tend not to appreciate how much work goes into even making the smallest of things, and comparing a free mmo to how subscription ones worked is unfair, freemmos are budgeted differently(and in my opinion, far worse..but thats editorial) but that's the thing about potential, it makes you think about how good this game could have been with effort.
    zahinder wrote: »
    BS.

    CO has never been very successful. Never. It's always been way behind the curve on content.

    It's just that, 4 years ago, it was easy to imagine they'd make up for the shallow game with vigorous content release. And, despite the Vibora Bay debacle, content seemed to come out ... tolerably well.

    But the content slowed and slowed and slowed and slowed.


    You can't blame PWE for CO's state.
    the only reason champs didnt die before coh is atari was willing to sell. A trait i have come to respect relative to another company, ill admit, but atari did not financially support co's growth either.
  • alexofspades#2085 alexofspades Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Another one leaves the boat. Wow, we get threads like these pretty much weekly huh?

    Congratulations, Cryptic and PWE. This is your doing. This guy, and every other guy that created threads like these, and all other guys that left the game without creating threads (which are the majority) all could be subscribers instead. Paying you 15 dollars every month, all of them. But now they're gone, to give their money to another company. Slow but steadily, your customers are waving bye bye, their dollar-packed wallets away from your grasp. Because you poison the game with your gambling and twisted ethics, instead of giving the community what the community asks.

    When this game is dead, Cryptic, i want you to watch the hundreds of Facebook posts attacking your page, the thousands of offended fans, and think, "That's my doing. This is what i brought to the world."

    Pigs.
    ERgLqqC.png
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Yes, have fun being bitter and angry about what could have been.

    I'm going to keep on playing because I genuinely enjoy the game...

    and if I didn't like it..is it really worth holding a grudge over it? It takes up too much unnecessary effort to hate... why not use that energy for something more constructive?
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    rygrad wrote: »
    I been in game for about 8 days(gold member)

    With multiple threads like this showing up,an in game chat that is cringe worthy at best, and not finding a Super group with a medium to high maturity level has pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for me in a very short time.

    Community posts like this help push new players right back out the door.

    (Thanks for the push before I waste anymore time or money on CO)

    If y9ou look at Zone chat or official forums to gauge ANY existing MMO - I have suggestion: The MMO game type just isn't for you.
    ^^^
    that's not meant as a swipe, per se; just a fact. ANY MMO forums (even the 800 lbs. - more successful then any other MMO to date subscription player number wise - WoW forums and zone chat are banal. hell, if you just spend 30 minutes in the WoW forums, you'd come away thinking - "Jeez, why in the hell do people bother to continue and play this game."

    In the end, with MMOs, you need to play and make up your own mind, good or bad. Official forums are never a good indicator because for the most part; players who enjoy the game spend their time playing (and rarely, if ever) come and post on the official forums. Those with major issues (or some Axe to grind) however; spend more time on the forums than in game.

    IMO - Cryptic HAS all but abandoned CO, when you look at the other two MMOs Cryptic has running. This game IS just a bit above maintenance mode (the point where a company just has a large enough team to keep the servers running, and fix any major bugs.)

    Yes, CO still does in fact receive actual content updates (like the latest 'Fatal Error' series of two story missions with an alert) - so it's not in full maintenance mode yet - but the amount/frequency of such updates is woefully small when compared to STO and NW.

    Further - while I'm sure the CO Dev Team that exists would LOVE to be able to integrate the Cryptic Foundry into CO - I think there's ZERO chance of them ever getting the manpower/resources they'd require to do such a 'retrofit'. Hell, they don't appear to have the resources to expand even their 'Nemesis Creation' system - add any new persistent zone (the only zone addition in the 4 years of CO has been 'Vibora Bay', and even that was being worked on PRIOR to the original 2009 CO launch as a subscription game.)

    Compare that to STO which has seen two major space sector blocks added, 3 ground 'adventure zones' (and the latest 'New Romulus' was the largest single ground zone yet done in a Cryptic MMO); and STO has also managed recurring Summer and Winter events; a full on expansion that added a playable Romulan faction (with new story content); and will be getting a new 'Space Adventure Zone' in a Dyson Sphere.) <--- This is all within the last year or so, and there's some stuff I'm sure I've missed.

    Compare that to CO which in the last year got about 4 missions (that they plan to rotate in and out, and a few new (real quick) 'Alerts'.

    And like many others, I do still feel CO has a fair amount of untapped potential. I do think the problem is that neither Cryptic/nor PWE see a good return on investment is trying to attract new players (IE the cost at the attempt is to high considering potential returns.)

    Outside of the tabletop RPG community - no one really knows what the Champions IP was/is. Dungeons and Dragons however actually DOES have a larger following beyond its tabletop RPG roots (toons of tie in books and novels that people, have read and liked even if they've never played D&D 'proper'); and 'Star Trek' has been around in it's various forms (lately with a very financially successful feature film reboot/retool of the TOS era) for 47+ years.
    ^^^
    Thus (IMO) I can see why of the three titles Cryptic/PWE run; those two get more resources due to greater potential ROI. That said, it really does hurt to see a game with potential languish the way CO does over the last couple of years (and I'm sure the CO Dev team work hard - but with limited resources can't really do major system changes/introductions or updates); and that IS sad.

    Wow, I rambled a lot here but the initial point in my first few paragraphs stands. Judging any MMO just by forum posts or chat won't get you a good picture regardless of the MMO.:biggrin:
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    Armsman-KConniesig-Original0454.jpg
    PWE Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Xy: familiar with the story of Tantalus?

    The CO-thatcouldhavebeen is the water and fruit.


    That's why all the bitterness. What we want is ... just ... over there... if I could... just reach a little further...
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    and if I didn't like it..is it really worth holding a grudge over it? It takes up too much unnecessary effort to hate... why not use that energy for something more constructive?

    Yes. I hold a grudge because they've earned it, just as they've earned your enjoyment. The hate isn't unnecessary, it's quite the natural response when you've sunk the resources (financial, emotional and space/time) to something like Champions Online like what i've spent.

    It's like realizing you have a gambling addiction, then looking at how much you've lost on it. You will be apt to say "I will NEVER gamble again" and furthermore you'll tell all of your friends the perils of gambling.

    Frankly Champions Online should be honored that they have such an impact on gamers and superhero enthusiasts. One thing you can't take away from Cryptic Studios is that they were THE studio to try and fill the void of superhero MMOs. If there were a better custom superhero game out there I'd surely go complain about it there as I would have been playing it and disappointing their devs to no end. The lack of competition is all that is keeping this game afloat and Cryptic should be proud of that. The opposite of love isn't hate, it is indifference.
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    malvou wrote: »
    Perfect World.

    Game was great, new content everywhere I was happy and then PWE came and sapped everything to make grind and lockbox extravaganza.

    Where's the new zones? Where's the permanent Content?

    The last zone was 2010, the last permanent content was Whiteout. Adventure Packs and Comic Stories vanished and replaced with 2 minute daily missions that take months(?) to make.

    I love this game to death but there is nothing to DO. I want my story arcs, interesting locales, WHAT THE HECK IS VIPER UP TO?! The last major thing they did was Serpent Lantern.

    I'm just complaining now, but that's just me.

    We can't get new zones and permanent content because there are tech issues and they are running out of space supposedly.

    That said, the game was not better under Atari, if PWE didn't come around the game would likely have gotten worse and potentially closed. It also doesn't help that we were getting a new EP every 6 months, and then in January CO was dropped in Cryptic North's lap.

    The big reasons for STO and NWO getting the support they do is because they are licensed from much bigger companies. They have a reason to keep those companies happy, to avoid SWG's fate.
  • mrbabylonmrbabylon Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    chaelk wrote: »
    feel free to try NW, where lockboxes, bags, mounts,companions, clothing, dyes are all cash shop.
    Where you can't explore. have one mission line to level.

    They have put in the new update, which had the expected result(well those of us here who have seen updates) the server is having login issues, crafting issues, foundry issues.

    Due to the graphics issue, squares of walls and terrain missing from instances, the known issues thread says to change your driver settings to 9e/11. DON'T.
    Yes it fixed the visual issues but after logging out. I can't log back in.

    Good thing Champions is working and has new missions i can try(and in the case of the last one, die repeatedly). Continuing alt levelling, got 1 at 36.

    Agreed . I looked so forward to NWN and it is exactly as you say and very much a let down. it's not D&D at all.
  • mrbabylonmrbabylon Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    aurinkosi wrote: »
    Another one leaves the boat. Wow, we get threads like these pretty much weekly huh?

    Congratulations, Cryptic and PWE. This is your doing. This guy, and every other guy that created threads like these, and all other guys that left the game without creating threads (which are the majority) all could be subscribers instead. Paying you 15 dollars every month, all of them. But now they're gone, to give their money to another company. Slow but steadily, your customers are waving bye bye, their dollar-packed wallets away from your grasp. Because you poison the game with your gambling and twisted ethics, instead of giving the community what the community asks.

    When this game is dead, Cryptic, i want you to watch the hundreds of Facebook posts attacking your page, the thousands of offended fans, and think, "That's my doing. This is what i brought to the world."

    Pigs.

    You are very bitter. I don;t disagree persay, but ..... bitter! LOL
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jennymachx wrote: »
    It's been shown enough times in the past how your "data" doesn't prove what you're intending to prove.

    No it has never been shown that my data doesn't prove what I've been trying to show.
    Link to the proof if you aren't just adding another lie to another thread.

    My numbers show that we burn through over 3000 players a week and they are not sticking around. How have you disproved that? Is there a demonstrable increase in numbers of active players on the server, in the zones, making teams, and using chats? No there isn't there.

    So where is your proof that my numbers aren't showing less active players playing than even a month ago? Do you even have any numbers from last month? I do.

    352 Players a month ago
    ]UkMuVLl.png

    825PM Monday August 25 317 Players. Prime time last night.
    iSri27F.png

    20 New Champions super groups have been created since August 1st.
    Thats 20 times 498 players or 9,9960 new accounts players have signed up in the last 26 days.

    Where are they? Its 156 PM Server time 306 Players
    eKK3S1a.png

    Are they playing the "new content"? Lets look. 30 players all three missions.
    xwqx4wp.png


    So what does this data prove? There's no money comining into this game from players,
    there's no long term interest in this game for the majority players, and you are not getting all the crap you cry for because it doesn't pay the developers to make it. Many things people think are the solution to this game have already been demonstrated to be failures, both here and at CoX.


    Deny it all you want, I'll just keep shoving it down your throats.
  • alexofspades#2085 alexofspades Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Spend three years of your life playing and investing tons of money in a game filled with potential just to see it descend into a nightmareish, bug-riddled broken piece of s**t. Watch all the friends you've made in the game and all the great supergroups and communities leave the game en masse, dumping it forever since the developers refuse to take care of it. Observe how the same problems that existed with the game three years ago are still there - but since then, hundreds of new bugs and issues have appeared, and how that makes the game become a graveyard with zones populated by four or five players (Canada, Desert, etc) since everyone is leaving the game. And then when you log in and you try to enjoy, people in your steam friendlist call you a loser for still playing Champions while there are other games out there that arent bug-infested lockbox money farms.

    Tell me if you wouldnt be bitter. Because i am. I am sincerely bitter, but at least i'm still here supporting the game - playing it daily and purchasing ZEN every now and then. While masses of people have left it to rot.
    ERgLqqC.png
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited August 2013
    meanwhile, Disney's already $100 million deep into their new MMO

    Not an MMO... it's 4 players max. :P
    biffsig.jpg
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Not an MMO... it's 4 players max. :P
    Disney On Alert!

    Our teams are five players max.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    "Proof".

    All of which is easily disproved by one simple fact:

    Players play the game at different times.

    If you're not tracking individual accounts and just how often they log in, if any more up to this day, and the different periods during which they log in AND out, then your data means nothing.

    Additionally you would have to track individual player movements across zones and instances because of fact that players do not spend 100% of their playing time in MC.

    How much interest an individual player has in the game is also determined by just how much money that individual player has invested into the game up to this date. No player, not even you, can determine that without working at PWE and actually seeing the financial records for themselves. Without any knowledge of this, your numbers also mean nothing.

    All of this has been mentioned time and again as to why your data doesn't prove what you're intending to prove. It's simple logic. You just choose to be in denial of it.

    I don't need to provide my proof to counter your claims, because I acknowledge the fact that there isn't a conclusive way to do it without actually working at Cryptic and having access to their internal information regarding all player accounts.
  • lonnehartlonnehart Posts: 846 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Wow... if players don't enjoy the game, then they can leave if they so desire.

    However, what I think I'm seeing is that they won't leave until they've driven every player from the game. Which may mean telling new players that the game is too flawed to play and attempting to drown out the people who enjoy the game with their disgruntledness.

    or something like that... :)
    *sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"

    "Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
  • zahinderzahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Next's numbers on 'number of accounts' may be entirely bogus, but...

    Those sorts of numbers for the main area at primetime are _awful_. I mean, really really bad. And it doesn't take accepting Next as any authority, just go log on at peak times.

    Like right now it's 7:45PM or so EST. It's Monday, but there should be a pretty good population of students and such on right now.

    Four instances, of about 77-98. Even 400 players, in the one zone everyone congregates in, even accounting... hell, twice that because half of them are in Alerts...


    That's pretty pathetic.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • alexofspades#2085 alexofspades Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    lonnehart wrote: »
    Wow... if players don't enjoy the game, then they can leave if they so desire.

    And they are. They are leaving, and they're leaving by the thousands as years pass. And they dont even bother to tell us why - they just do. A very small portion of the community that dislikes the game, however, decides to explain Cryptic why they're unsatisfied with the game so that they may fix it and bring the players back. And when that happens, we get posts like yours - people complaining that we're offering them feedback.

    For every enraged forum member, you have a hundred of silent players merely uninstalling the game for the same reasons.
    ERgLqqC.png
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Next's numbers on 'number of accounts' may be entirely bogus, but...

    Those sorts of numbers for the main area at primetime are _awful_. I mean, really really bad. And it doesn't take accepting Next as any authority, just go log on at peak times.

    Like right now it's 7:45PM or so EST. It's Monday, but there should be a pretty good population of students and such on right now.

    Four instances, of about 77-98. Even 400 players, in the one zone everyone congregates in, even accounting... hell, twice that because half of them are in Alerts...


    That's pretty pathetic.

    If the game was exclusively played by US citizens or just people from NA in general then I would agree without question.

    The fact is that players come from all sorts of different time zones, so "prime time" depends on exactly where a particular player lives in. It isn't 100% credible to use the NA time zone as a leading reference.
  • xaogarrentxaogarrent Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    aurinkosi wrote: »
    And they are. They are leaving, and they're leaving by the thousands as years pass. And they dont even bother to tell us why - they just do. A very small portion of the community that dislikes the game, however, decides to explain Cryptic why they're unsatisfied with the game so that they may fix it and bring the players back. And when that happens, we get posts like yours - people complaining that we're offering them feedback.

    For every enraged forum member, you have a hundred of silent players merely uninstalling the game for the same reasons.

    Gonna agree with this, but I'd like to add that we don't dislike the game itself, what we dislike is the misdirection, mismanagement and the obvious mistakes being made over and over.

    ...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
This discussion has been closed.