FWIW, I emailed all these Telepathy bugs to LordGar to bump the thread and make sure they were fully aware.
For clarity and summary:
You forwarded the bugs, and not the design flaws (such as DoT penetration checks only working on the first tick or scaling DoTs high damage breaking holds or Master of the Mind not having any synergy/survival..). Is this correct?
Also not being reported to the devs is the lack of congruence and precedent such as DoTs scaling with crit strength (which kills Crowd Control players who still want to have low DoTs and high Spike damage). Is this correct?
The "hybrid" passive that works in all roles and ruins build switching players is also not being reported. Is this correct?
Any word on why shadow of doubt and mental leech and demolish still proc manipulator even though they have no crowd control component? Many others have been listed elsewhere..
The heal on Mental Leech Was or was not submit?
The powers effect (not DPS) being immune to the new missions' enemies?
I believe there were at one point also Sound FX bugs reported that I have not seen the specifics of them being fixed but am under the assumption that they are likely there.
For clarity and summary:
You forwarded the bugs, and not the design flaws (such as DoT penetration checks only working on the first tick or scaling DoTs high damage breaking holds or Master of the Mind not having any synergy/survival..). Is this correct?
For all intents and purposes bugs by design such as CoS's Defense Penentration not working and the DoTs breaking holds, in my estimation are bugs, so I included them in the multiple bugs I listed in the OP. So here's hoping this is cleaned up.
Also not being reported to the devs is the lack of congruence and precedent such as DoTs scaling with crit strength (which kills Crowd Control players who still want to have low DoTs and high Spike damage). Is this correct?
I have no idea why they scale that way, I've tried them with DEX statted and didn't really get that much of a difference in attack and damage, apart from the values being slightly higher.
Any word on why shadow of doubt and mental leech and demolish still proc manipulator even though they have no crowd control component? Many others have been listed elsewhere..
Shadow of Doubt and Mental Leech have debuffing effects which I think count towards them being tagged CC. I certainly hope these powers proccing manipulator is NOT a bug because this would kill off the new play style entirely.
Demolish is outright weird. I figure it does this because it's debuff has been tagged CC or something....
I remember a year ago you posted a complete list of the powers which do not proc Manipulator. These were ALL fixed in the New Telepathy Additions Push late last year before the project was put on hold. 10 months later the iteration must have died or something as half of the in game holds still do not proc Manipulator Form. Sinestro recently made a post about it in PTS section entitled: Manipulator: The Picky Form.
The powers effect (not DPS) being immune to the new missions' enemies?
I believe there were at one point also Sound FX bugs reported that I have not seen the specifics of them being fixed but am under the assumption that they are likely there.
ML's effect doesn't work on anything in game any more. This spread from Cyberlord to his minions then to everything in game
I also know a ton of people went on a tissy about how they wanted this massive CC do over and a revamp of the whole powerset...and those things were never on the table. Also, holding cosmics and turning you into some CoX class was never on the table. At BEST there might have been the option to turn Telepathy more into something similiar to the NW Control Wizards...but it didn't happen. -The End
A CC pass was discussed for January, based on the premise that that iteration we last saw in September of 2012 was close to the final version with a few very minor alterations. This was brought to the fore as something the developer would like to do "time permitting". However clearly this never happened as things changed. CO players (as far as I know) have never been able to hold past Super Villain Ranked foes, with the exception of one power in game which can hold anyone, whilst still allowing mobility and any other form of buff they may have previously activated to remain on them.
What was on the table was the opportunity to use crowd control as an offensive weapon much like DPS and to allow for CCers to have an actual place in combat rather than becoming a second class debuffer (by this I mean not fully built for debuffing play style, such as damage and movement reduction). Using the system of Interrupts. You can see evidence of this in the current LIVE tooltips for the powers. Combined with the insane damage which was obtainable, it made telepaths and controllers very deadly.
P.S. I'm playing a "New" Telepathy toon right now(currently lvl 12), because my "OLD" Telepath was just too awesome to retcon, and....I'm doing just fine even with the bugs(again, they should be fixed). I'll likely come back and post an update when I'm 40....unless this thread is dead.
I personally did not imply that content was impossible with these bugs in game or that my entire playstyle has been...hmm..well you know what I mean .
Soloable content is still doable it would just be a lot better if these bugs didn't exist. I think a missed opportunity card can be played here with regards OLD and NEW Telepathy, there are some synergies available but in the main they do not exist...would have been nice to be able to marry the two in set power groups together.
Post 49:
Thanks TT. Anytime bugs can be repaired they should be and this is a nice bit of "Communication" on your part(See people? There is it. The C-Word. Cherish it).
Post 52:
1. Hey, I have a grand idea. When someone in charge offers to pass something along and be nice to the community let's be all bitter and grill them like they're the powers dev. Wait...no...that's a horrible idea.
2. Since this thread was forwarded and the post I am referring to is in this thread then....you can do the math. So yes, the information was sent but in perhaps not the most tactful way possible.
Post 55:
Disclaimer: I am not personally attacking you, just relaying information.
1. I recall conversations in November which hinted at a CC Pass for about 5 minutes and then were basically scrapped because old powers are bad and new powers are where it's at with the cool kids these days. There were alot of forum discussions on the subject but, in all honesty, most of them were the same 3-4 people talking in a parrot circle amongst themselves about their "ideal vision" when, in reality, they had only the power to suggest....not to create their actual vision for the rest of us to play(THANK YOU <Diety of Choice>).
In the end "New" Telepathy doesn't exist because of some stupid #hashtagcampaign or aggressive forum/facebook/twitter spam but because NW went live and someone had some spare time and wanted to finish them. Are they perfect? No, that much is evident in this thread and to anyone in a PH even touching them. I, personally, think the current trend to stacking needless levels of complexity onto powers which should be simple and more flexible to both inset and out of set synergies and therefore creating almost locked in stone combos(X+Y+Z = Ultra Combo and A and B can go #$%^ themselves even though they're similiar) is not the correct approach for powersets in CO because, in most cases, by the time you build up 10 stacks of "OMG", 7 Stacks of "BBQ", and the moon is in the seventh house.....there's a corpse at your feet. So you loot and try to get all of this in on the next mob...and the next mob...and the next mob.
2. Sadly, that oppertunity card scenario you just described is true for much much more than Telepathy IMO. Perhaps, once properly trained(and with some kind of introduction/announcement on the webpage/forums like, "Hi.") Cryptic North will become the saviors of CO and right some of the oversights, bugs, storyline, and such....but I'm, personally, at the stage where seeing is believing because shoulda/woulda/coulda is long since gone. IMO, the "Hope Era" of CO is dead and only the "Concrete Era" can save that. Sadly, both come with the same waiting game.
Shadow of Doubt and Mental Leech have debuffing effects which I think count towards them being tagged CC. I certainly hope these powers proccing manipulator is NOT a bug because this would kill off the new play style entirely.
They should have thought of that before removing the Crowd Control from Shadow of Doubt and Mental Leech. But by now you know that I believe that the rules of combat need to be uniform and adhered to for champions online to ever have a foundation to grow on.
I remember a year ago you posted a complete list of the powers which do not proc Manipulator. These were ALL fixed in the New Telepathy Additions Push late last year before the project was put on hold. 10 months later the iteration must have died or something as half of the in game holds still do not proc Manipulator Form. Sinestro recently made a post about it in PTS section entitled: Manipulator: The Picky Form.
Post 52:
1. Hey, I have a grand idea. When someone in charge offers to pass something along and be nice to the community let's be all bitter and grill them like they're the powers dev. Wait...no...that's a horrible idea.
I asked him for specifics as to what was communicated not what work was being done. I used the assumptions from previous communication on the subject. All within his scope. You taking it as "grilling" and "being bitter" is entirely based on your prejudice against the author.
In the end "New" Telepathy doesn't exist because of some stupid #hashtagcampaign or aggressive forum/facebook/twitter spam but because NW went live and someone had some spare time and wanted to finish them. Are they perfect? No, that much is evident in this thread and to anyone in a PH even touching them. I, personally, think the current trend to stacking needless levels of complexity onto powers which should be simple and more flexible to both inset and out of set synergies and therefore creating almost locked in stone combos(X+Y+Z = Ultra Combo and A and B can go #$%^ themselves even though they're similiar) is not the correct approach for powersets in CO because, in most cases, by the time you build up 10 stacks of "OMG", 7 Stacks of "BBQ", and the moon is in the seventh house.....there's a corpse at your feet. So you loot and try to get all of this in on the next mob...and the next mob...and the next mob.
I strongly disagree. I DO have a huge ego and sense of self importance, but in THIS case.. telepathy in champions online would have been a largely undocumented neglect if not for my persistence. Would someone else come in to mind the gap? Perhaps.. but in the end the campaign for Telepathy Awareness was a slow, ugly, painful, and thankless success.
The resistance and opposition to telepathy was apparent from the beginning, both from developers and players. I will not have my CO life's work reduced to your dismissive sound bite.
ALSO the reason for the 10 stacks was NEVER to be an ultimate power, but because debuffs work mathematically reverse to those of buffs. Buffing yourself to 4 stacks then consuming them is not the same as debuffing an enemy. The current combat design took the worst of both tables: Low stacking shared debuffs. High Stacking Shared OR Low Stacking Single..
As to "things dying too fast" this was also purposefully addressed. But that would assume that people playing telepathy didn't want to be forced into DPS and could go back to having low DPS and high Crowd Control as originally designed. This was the whole purpose of the damage being OVER TIME. Had the penetration actually worked as advertised this "slow burn" approach would likely have been well received by the Crowd Control community. But instead they threw Crit DPS into it as well as buffing the damage and removing the Crowd Control potential completely. DPS telepathy players are the only people who have the "things die too fast" problem. And DPS Telepathy worked JUST FINE before this mini set was released. Countless players didn't even want to SEE a telepathy miniset because of how "FINE" it worked.
But again, asking for competent combat design falls under what you call the "Hope" era. In the concrete era you can expect more and more to remain hopeless.
telepathy in champions online would have been a largely undocumented neglect if not for my persistence. Would someone else come in to mind the gap? Perhaps.. but in the end the campaign for Telepathy Awareness was a slow, ugly, painful, and thankless success.
Aren't you completely against how it all came out? How is that a success? And what exactly did your hashtag persistence get? Nothing. For all your crying of telepathy now, they ignored you for 10 months and only got back on it because the guy decided to spend some extra time on it, not because a couple people on the forums needed their telepathy fix.
It took 10 months of your "campaigning" and ultimately it ended up something you completely dislike. It doesn't sound to me like you were very pivotal at all, by any stretch of the imagination, to the whole telepathy thing. In the end it looks like all you did was spam a whole lot and got nothing done.
I'm concerned by the level of bickering going on. I have no issue with discussion, but the level of personal attacks going on concerns me. I may need to lock.
If I do lock, please take note that the exact same thread is perfectly valid to start back up -- all I have a problem with is people fighting each other.
For all your crying of telepathy now, they ignored you for 10 months and only got back on it because the guy decided to spend some extra time on it, not because a couple people on the forums needed their telepathy fix.
It took 10 months of your "campaigning" and ultimately it ended up something you completely dislike. It doesn't sound to me like you were very pivotal at all, by any stretch of the imagination, to the whole telepathy thing. In the end it looks like all you did was spam a whole lot and got nothing done.
But haters gonna hate, right?
Funny you should say this, his posts and threads actually contributed a lot to knowledge of Telepathy being neglected and was a well documented couple of pages (to say the least) on what could and needed to be done in order to solve the issue.
Without his suggestions, we would likely have an interrupt lockout version of Telepathy, which was horrible. That alone should tell you that Jaybezz was particularly influential in getting this stuff changed.
Whilst it may not have been implemented the best way, New Telepathic Powers actually exist in game. I would blame any and all interest given to Telepathy by Devs down to either myself or Jaybezz (Of course this was meant in a positive way ).
Haters hating only gets stuff ruined but hey, I'm not hating on anyone.
This whole thread alone and my gathering of bugs together regarding New Telepathy, Manipulator and PFF and Holds interaction has bore sizeable fruit in a very recent PTS iteration which solves a large amount of the issues I compiled together.
So I guess it does pay off to be persistent after all.
I'm concerned by the level of bickering going on. I have no issue with discussion, but the level of personal attacks going on concerns me. I may need to lock.
If I do lock, please take note that the exact same thread is perfectly valid to start back up -- all I have a problem with is people fighting each other.
I would hate for this to get locked, as I am still using this as a base for bug compiling regarding New Telepathy.
Please stop fighting guys! !
@TrailTurtle: I'd like to say a massive thank you to you and the Development Team and no doubt Gentleman Crush for the latest PTS Push! I am so glad to see these bugs are being squashed! :biggrin:
FWIW, I emailed all these Telepathy bugs to LordGar to bump the thread and make sure they were fully aware.
To follow up:
I see changes on the PTS, all of which I am pleased to see on a purely parental level.
Telepathy:
Dependancy now properly heals allies again.
Empowered Mind Break (from Master of the Mind) now mentions that is only shatters Empowered Debuffs. This is just a tooltip change.
Some telepathy power short descriptions have been updated to better reflect the purpose of the powers.
Damage penetration on Congress of Selves should now properly affect all ticks of Damage over time powers.
Mental Weakness and Malaise now properly respect Manipulator stacks when calculating their duration.
(would quote but.. u know.. can't access PTS forum)
Of this list does this entail all of the bug work you submit to the developers or are there other design based changes that can be expected (DoT penetration working for all ticks for instance). I don't see a fix in the powers that manipulator affects.. if this change is there but undocumented someone should test.
Also if someone would test:
Are ALL DoT respecting penetration? From Congress of Selves? From INT specialization? Its best to let them know now.
Mental Weakness and Malaise is such a cosmetic victory since the duration of the debuffs is largely "moot" for a refreshable non-stacking debuff. Unless the values changed, players did not need to invest much if at all in Crowd Control to get the debuff on persistent rotation. But they are useless in PvP and non-scaling debuffs so there's no reason to invest in ANYTHING to boost them.
In the end the campaign for Telepathy Awareness was a slow, ugly, painful, and thankless success.
I see changes on the PTS, all of which I am pleased to see on a purely parental level.
Telepathy:
Also if someone would test:
Are ALL DoT respecting penetration? From Congress of Selves? From INT specialization? Its best to let them know now.
Mental Weakness and Malaise is such a cosmetic victory since the duration of the debuffs is largely "moot" for a refreshable non-stacking debuff. Unless the values changed, players did not need to invest much if at all in Crowd Control to get the debuff on persistent rotation. But they are useless in PvP and non-scaling debuffs so there's no reason to invest in ANYTHING to boost them.
In the end the campaign for Telepathy Awareness was a slow, ugly, painful, and thankless success.
Some telepathy power short descriptions have been updated to better reflect the purpose of the powers.
^ In the whole this is working GREAT! Only one tiny tiny bug to fix here:
Shadow of Doubt
-The second part of the power description is also wrong:
"When Mental Storm expires it applies Regret to the target."
This should be changed to:
"When Shadow of Doubt expires it applies Regret to the target."
Apart from this line of incorrect text everything is fixed tooltip wise!
Damage penetration on Congress of Selves should now properly affect all ticks of Damage over time powers.
^ Works wonderfully, I am so happy this has been fixed especially!
Mental Weakness and Malaise now properly respect Manipulator stacks when calculating their duration.
^ Another round of full win here, the durations are great!
Dependency Stacks should now properly heal allies
^ On top of this working great. It no longer heals foes in PvP!
From the above CoS is working and so are MW and Malaise. Although the 15% values have not changed (as they are set in stone) the durations have only increased.
INT values and specs are increasing this effect as intended/ working on top of this effect.
Ok, TT, I'm just replying to posts here so I'll try to minimize the "bickering"
I asked him for specifics as to what was communicated not what work was being done. I used the assumptions from previous communication on the subject. All within his scope. You taking it as "grilling" and "being bitter" is entirely based on your prejudice against the author.
Victim Card.
The rest of the post
1. I agree it was "slow, ugly, painful, and thankless" but mostly due to how spammy and tactlessly it was handled. In the end Crush started the powers because he chose too and finished them because he chose to do so. Most of his adjustments were made due to the informative post of the forum's mathers(of which I am not one so this isn't a try for me to gain any kind of "Forum Celebrity") and even then he only selectively took that advice. If the hashtag nonsense had not happened at all then the end results would have been the same even without someone to pick up the banner and "champion the cause."
I'm not being dismissive(if that were the case then these posts would not exist at all). I'm being realistic in the replies to a few posts which take themselves just a smidge(See: A lot) too seriously for a video game.
The examples which, intentionally, referred to made up stack mechanic examples were a means by which to address all new powers which use such mechanics as it appears to be the new current trend in CO. It was not only referring to Telepathy.
Raven: I find myself dissagreeing with with your version of what happened in that I would substitute other names for the contributors who caused the changes and, even then, I would not put so much weight on the player input based on things I was told via the process. Crush impliments a version which he did not like after testing and mathematical data(not things like "I think it should be named this" and "What if we had this?") so he changed it, tweaked it, and released the version that fit his actual vision. Be it good, bad, and/or buggy...it hit Live. Right now there are people on the PTS forums writing books on how they would do this and that and everything with desires which, IMO, far outweigh reasonable expectations in reguards to the work of one person. I suspect that when those new powers hit live there will be people who come out against them because they did not fit their personal vision but at least it would have happened without having to endure the #LaserSwordsNow nonsense. :cool:
And, Raven, to an extent you are correct. Persistance can pay off but it has to be tempered with tact, thoughtfulness, and logic in that process(I'm not saying you did not do this btw). A good portion of the whole #TelepathyNow business was just spamming threads, facebook, and twitter while being insulting, rude, and valueing opinions called facts over actual math. Hey, I wanted a DoT Form to go with "New" Telepathy and I lightly pestered Crush about it a few times. It didn't happen. I didn't take my toys and go home....I rolled a "New" Telepathy toon(with a smidge of Telekinesis for aesthetics and theme) and am enjoying the toon so far. We all have things we would like to see happen in this game. We all have our favorite powersets and themes. At the end of the day it's when we come together in a logical, applicable(non-spammy), tactful manner that others are more likely to be receptive. When they disagree with our "visions" then that's fine if they reply in the same fashion. Repeatedly spam bashing the same unrealistic points home over and over again while getting friends to basically parrot the same sentiments accomplishes nothing really. This is why, IMO, Earth came out better than "New" Telepathy(except for the MIA Passive, of course).
And now, more leveling with Mushin. My little "New" Telepathy toon. Oh, and before I forget, I might have a bug to add to your list but I need some more levels to get the adv points to test something. I'll get back to you on this.
And now, more leveling with Mushin. My little "New" Telepathy toon. Oh, and before I forget, I might have a bug to add to your list but I need some more levels to get the adv points to test something. I'll get back to you on this.
"Raven: I find myself dissagreeing with with your version of what happened in that I would substitute other names for the contributors who caused the changes and, even then, I would not put so much weight on the player input based on things I was told via the process. Crush impliments a version which he did not like after testing and mathematical data(not things like "I think it should be named this" and "What if we had this?") so he changed it, tweaked it, and released the version that fit his actual vision. Be it good, bad, and/or buggy...it hit Live. Right now there are people on the PTS forums writing books on how they would do this and that and everything with desires which, IMO, far outweigh reasonable expectations in reguards to the work of one person. I suspect that when those new powers hit live there will be people who come out against them because they did not fit their personal vision but at least it would have happened without having to endure the #LaserSwordsNow nonsense. "
Disagree for a few reasons Crosschan:
1. Whatever one thinks of #telepathy now and the outcome, denying it had impact and forced action...seems forced. Why else would they have revisited it?
2. Player involvement; this is a muddy area. I know people divide into camps and blame each other, but seriously no one has noticed advice briefly given by a certain nike character and a grimblack (in wrongly stickied threads and posts on pts) too the devs that was almost implemented until someone pointed out their respective and obvious too the point of trolling flaws? Granted Cryptic did eventually catch on and after realization shut down those stickied threads/posts/pts suggestions after learning it was a goof and had zero basis in reality. I credit the ability to make that distinction w/ our old staff. They listened, realized that some sticky threads were not based in co reality and thankfully terminated them, though having some of them up as long as they were did not reflect well on anyone. People here who knew better said little, and back then dev communication was possible. As in pm's and stuff. I can't in good conscience call anyone who participated in the last one of meaning to f the game like previous atttempts by long forgotten trolls.
10 bucks says if hashtag laser sword takes off, there might be a later review. You can hold me tooo that.
1. Whatever one thinks of #telepathy now and the outcome, denying it had impact and forced action...seems forced. Why else would they have revisited it?
10 bucks says if hashtag laser sword takes off, there might be a later review. You can hold me tooo that.
1st off let me start by commending you on a fine example of what I was talking about previously. This is a completely rational and civil disagreement with my previous post. Now let me address it real quick.
For your 1st point I do think #TelepathyNow had impact and forced action. The impact was annoyance and the action was banhammering due to it's spammy and usually(not in all cases) tactless use. As for why "New" Telepathy was revisited. It was simply finished by the person who started it once their other obligations(NW) were completed to the point where they had the time and ability to do so. I believe, completely, that had this campaign never happened the same results would have occurred. Even then I would not consider this a "Review" so much as an "Addition" since very little(Ego Sprites got a minor change), to my recollection, was changed in the previously existing powers.
If your opinion were to be correct then we would have a plant set and a claws review by now(among other things). That we do not have these things at this time shows how even more civil attempts have met with crickets. On the other hand, Roxstar's thread was just a well written thread and we did get an Earth Set(mostly) from that exercise so, IMO, it's not entirely hopeless but, as previously stated, I deal in concrete these days when it comes to CO. You gotta "Show me da content" on Live.
Raven, I am pleased to relay to you that I was wrong about the bug. I had noticed an odd difference in CD timers not matching up between two of the powers but, silly me, it's because one of them was R1 and the other was R2. Now that they are both R2 I am happy to report I have no issue to report. :biggrin:
Raven, I am pleased to relay to you that I was wrong about the bug. I had noticed an odd difference in CD timers not matching up between two of the powers but, silly me, it's because one of them was R1 and the other was R2. Now that they are both R2 I am happy to report I have no issue to report. :biggrin:
1. Whatever one thinks of #telepathy now and the outcome, denying it had impact and forced action...seems forced. Why else would they have revisited it?
Wasn't the timeline something like this:
"We're going to do some things with Telepathy."
*General excitement by the Telepathy folks*
"Here's new Telepathy stuff!"
*Discontentment by a few folks who expected something different*
"Telepathy goes on the backburner. We're going to work on Neverwinter! (They didnt' say this part but that's what happened.)"
*One person starts a hashtag "campaign" to fix mind powers in a "timely manner"... for 8 to 10 months.*
"Hey guys, I'm back, got some free time, and am going to finish up what I started with Telepathy!"
*Grumbles grumbles by a few forum folks. Generally people like it.*
Don't know how you'd call that forcing action if it takes almost a year. And they didn't revisit Telepathy, they just finished what they started (unless you're talking about the initial
Anyway, I know plenty of folks who like the new powers. I know a few that thinks they all suck (not anyone in this thread). I personally like them.
Raven - are you updating the first post to include the newest fixes? I think some stuff was fixed in yesterday's patch.
Anyway, I know plenty of folks who like the new powers. I know a few that thinks they all suck (not anyone in this thread). I personally like them.
I like the new powers, I am just pretty bummed out the only CC I can gain via them is in Old Telepathy and one of the new Telepathy powers. My understanding of the initial version of telepathy (and thus the reason behind their production) was to make Telepaths (in the support/CC category) have a place in higher level foes, which would indirectly give life to the CC game play strategy.
However, as gradii has pointed out, brain-tricity is an issue for me. It always has been, as the effects for Mental Leech has. Both look "messy" in my personal opinion (not so much Mental Storm as Mental Leech mind you). I complained about this from the very start (when FX initially switched from neat to what it is now) but you get on with it.
I do well on a team with mentrance in most cases. I think this confirms we actually exsist in seperate realities connected only by CO. :biggrin: either that or my build is THAT much different, and given the small number of new telepathy powers there are, theres probably many unavoidable similarities.
Pre made teams are fine, it's just occasional alerts (this is post fix update). I end up tanking for my alert team which is probably why I get agro lol.
A recent quote from a player with Mentella in Grab:
"Jesus, Mentella! Can you save some butt for us to kick?" lol
Comments
You forwarded the bugs, and not the design flaws (such as DoT penetration checks only working on the first tick or scaling DoTs high damage breaking holds or Master of the Mind not having any synergy/survival..). Is this correct?
Also not being reported to the devs is the lack of congruence and precedent such as DoTs scaling with crit strength (which kills Crowd Control players who still want to have low DoTs and high Spike damage). Is this correct?
The "hybrid" passive that works in all roles and ruins build switching players is also not being reported. Is this correct?
Any word on why shadow of doubt and mental leech and demolish still proc manipulator even though they have no crowd control component? Many others have been listed elsewhere..
The heal on Mental Leech Was or was not submit?
The powers effect (not DPS) being immune to the new missions' enemies?
I believe there were at one point also Sound FX bugs reported that I have not seen the specifics of them being fixed but am under the assumption that they are likely there.
Thank you very much. With FE coming to a close this week, I am hoping to see these bugs cleared up, so I can continue to enjoy champions.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
For all intents and purposes bugs by design such as CoS's Defense Penentration not working and the DoTs breaking holds, in my estimation are bugs, so I included them in the multiple bugs I listed in the OP. So here's hoping this is cleaned up.
I have no idea why they scale that way, I've tried them with DEX statted and didn't really get that much of a difference in attack and damage, apart from the values being slightly higher.
Shadow of Doubt and Mental Leech have debuffing effects which I think count towards them being tagged CC. I certainly hope these powers proccing manipulator is NOT a bug because this would kill off the new play style entirely.
Demolish is outright weird. I figure it does this because it's debuff has been tagged CC or something....
I remember a year ago you posted a complete list of the powers which do not proc Manipulator. These were ALL fixed in the New Telepathy Additions Push late last year before the project was put on hold. 10 months later the iteration must have died or something as half of the in game holds still do not proc Manipulator Form. Sinestro recently made a post about it in PTS section entitled: Manipulator: The Picky Form.
ML's effect doesn't work on anything in game any more. This spread from Cyberlord to his minions then to everything in game
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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A CC pass was discussed for January, based on the premise that that iteration we last saw in September of 2012 was close to the final version with a few very minor alterations. This was brought to the fore as something the developer would like to do "time permitting". However clearly this never happened as things changed. CO players (as far as I know) have never been able to hold past Super Villain Ranked foes, with the exception of one power in game which can hold anyone, whilst still allowing mobility and any other form of buff they may have previously activated to remain on them.
What was on the table was the opportunity to use crowd control as an offensive weapon much like DPS and to allow for CCers to have an actual place in combat rather than becoming a second class debuffer (by this I mean not fully built for debuffing play style, such as damage and movement reduction). Using the system of Interrupts. You can see evidence of this in the current LIVE tooltips for the powers. Combined with the insane damage which was obtainable, it made telepaths and controllers very deadly.
I personally did not imply that content was impossible with these bugs in game or that my entire playstyle has been...hmm..well you know what I mean
Soloable content is still doable it would just be a lot better if these bugs didn't exist. I think a missed opportunity card can be played here with regards OLD and NEW Telepathy, there are some synergies available but in the main they do not exist...would have been nice to be able to marry the two in set power groups together.
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Post 49:
Thanks TT. Anytime bugs can be repaired they should be and this is a nice bit of "Communication" on your part(See people? There is it. The C-Word. Cherish it).
Post 52:
1. Hey, I have a grand idea. When someone in charge offers to pass something along and be nice to the community let's be all bitter and grill them like they're the powers dev. Wait...no...that's a horrible idea.
2. Since this thread was forwarded and the post I am referring to is in this thread then....you can do the math. So yes, the information was sent but in perhaps not the most tactful way possible.
Post 55:
Disclaimer: I am not personally attacking you, just relaying information.
1. I recall conversations in November which hinted at a CC Pass for about 5 minutes and then were basically scrapped because old powers are bad and new powers are where it's at with the cool kids these days. There were alot of forum discussions on the subject but, in all honesty, most of them were the same 3-4 people talking in a parrot circle amongst themselves about their "ideal vision" when, in reality, they had only the power to suggest....not to create their actual vision for the rest of us to play(THANK YOU <Diety of Choice>).
In the end "New" Telepathy doesn't exist because of some stupid #hashtagcampaign or aggressive forum/facebook/twitter spam but because NW went live and someone had some spare time and wanted to finish them. Are they perfect? No, that much is evident in this thread and to anyone in a PH even touching them. I, personally, think the current trend to stacking needless levels of complexity onto powers which should be simple and more flexible to both inset and out of set synergies and therefore creating almost locked in stone combos(X+Y+Z = Ultra Combo and A and B can go #$%^ themselves even though they're similiar) is not the correct approach for powersets in CO because, in most cases, by the time you build up 10 stacks of "OMG", 7 Stacks of "BBQ", and the moon is in the seventh house.....there's a corpse at your feet. So you loot and try to get all of this in on the next mob...and the next mob...and the next mob.
2. Sadly, that oppertunity card scenario you just described is true for much much more than Telepathy IMO. Perhaps, once properly trained(and with some kind of introduction/announcement on the webpage/forums like, "Hi.") Cryptic North will become the saviors of CO and right some of the oversights, bugs, storyline, and such....but I'm, personally, at the stage where seeing is believing because shoulda/woulda/coulda is long since gone. IMO, the "Hope Era" of CO is dead and only the "Concrete Era" can save that. Sadly, both come with the same waiting game.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
They should have thought of that before removing the Crowd Control from Shadow of Doubt and Mental Leech. But by now you know that I believe that the rules of combat need to be uniform and adhered to for champions online to ever have a foundation to grow on.
Yeah. The difference a year makes..
I asked him for specifics as to what was communicated not what work was being done. I used the assumptions from previous communication on the subject. All within his scope. You taking it as "grilling" and "being bitter" is entirely based on your prejudice against the author.
I strongly disagree. I DO have a huge ego and sense of self importance, but in THIS case.. telepathy in champions online would have been a largely undocumented neglect if not for my persistence. Would someone else come in to mind the gap? Perhaps.. but in the end the campaign for Telepathy Awareness was a slow, ugly, painful, and thankless success.
The resistance and opposition to telepathy was apparent from the beginning, both from developers and players. I will not have my CO life's work reduced to your dismissive sound bite.
ALSO the reason for the 10 stacks was NEVER to be an ultimate power, but because debuffs work mathematically reverse to those of buffs. Buffing yourself to 4 stacks then consuming them is not the same as debuffing an enemy. The current combat design took the worst of both tables: Low stacking shared debuffs. High Stacking Shared OR Low Stacking Single..
As to "things dying too fast" this was also purposefully addressed. But that would assume that people playing telepathy didn't want to be forced into DPS and could go back to having low DPS and high Crowd Control as originally designed. This was the whole purpose of the damage being OVER TIME. Had the penetration actually worked as advertised this "slow burn" approach would likely have been well received by the Crowd Control community. But instead they threw Crit DPS into it as well as buffing the damage and removing the Crowd Control potential completely. DPS telepathy players are the only people who have the "things die too fast" problem. And DPS Telepathy worked JUST FINE before this mini set was released. Countless players didn't even want to SEE a telepathy miniset because of how "FINE" it worked.
But again, asking for competent combat design falls under what you call the "Hope" era. In the concrete era you can expect more and more to remain hopeless.
Aren't you completely against how it all came out? How is that a success? And what exactly did your hashtag persistence get? Nothing. For all your crying of telepathy now, they ignored you for 10 months and only got back on it because the guy decided to spend some extra time on it, not because a couple people on the forums needed their telepathy fix.
It took 10 months of your "campaigning" and ultimately it ended up something you completely dislike. It doesn't sound to me like you were very pivotal at all, by any stretch of the imagination, to the whole telepathy thing. In the end it looks like all you did was spam a whole lot and got nothing done.
But haters gonna hate, right?
If I do lock, please take note that the exact same thread is perfectly valid to start back up -- all I have a problem with is people fighting each other.
Funny you should say this, his posts and threads actually contributed a lot to knowledge of Telepathy being neglected and was a well documented couple of pages (to say the least) on what could and needed to be done in order to solve the issue.
Without his suggestions, we would likely have an interrupt lockout version of Telepathy, which was horrible. That alone should tell you that Jaybezz was particularly influential in getting this stuff changed.
Whilst it may not have been implemented the best way, New Telepathic Powers actually exist in game. I would blame any and all interest given to Telepathy by Devs down to either myself or Jaybezz (Of course this was meant in a positive way
Haters hating only gets stuff ruined but hey, I'm not hating on anyone.
This whole thread alone and my gathering of bugs together regarding New Telepathy, Manipulator and PFF and Holds interaction has bore sizeable fruit in a very recent PTS iteration which solves a large amount of the issues I compiled together.
So I guess it does pay off to be persistent after all.
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I would hate for this to get locked, as I am still using this as a base for bug compiling regarding New Telepathy.
Please stop fighting guys!
@TrailTurtle: I'd like to say a massive thank you to you and the Development Team and no doubt Gentleman Crush for the latest PTS Push! I am so glad to see these bugs are being squashed! :biggrin:
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To follow up:
I see changes on the PTS, all of which I am pleased to see on a purely parental level.
Telepathy:
(would quote but.. u know.. can't access PTS forum)
Of this list does this entail all of the bug work you submit to the developers or are there other design based changes that can be expected (DoT penetration working for all ticks for instance). I don't see a fix in the powers that manipulator affects.. if this change is there but undocumented someone should test.
Also if someone would test:
Are ALL DoT respecting penetration? From Congress of Selves? From INT specialization? Its best to let them know now.
Mental Weakness and Malaise is such a cosmetic victory since the duration of the debuffs is largely "moot" for a refreshable non-stacking debuff. Unless the values changed, players did not need to invest much if at all in Crowd Control to get the debuff on persistent rotation. But they are useless in PvP and non-scaling debuffs so there's no reason to invest in ANYTHING to boost them.
In the end the campaign for Telepathy Awareness was a slow, ugly, painful, and thankless success.
From the above CoS is working and so are MW and Malaise. Although the 15% values have not changed (as they are set in stone) the durations have only increased.
INT values and specs are increasing this effect as intended/ working on top of this effect.
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Victim Card.
1. I agree it was "slow, ugly, painful, and thankless" but mostly due to how spammy and tactlessly it was handled. In the end Crush started the powers because he chose too and finished them because he chose to do so. Most of his adjustments were made due to the informative post of the forum's mathers(of which I am not one so this isn't a try for me to gain any kind of "Forum Celebrity") and even then he only selectively took that advice. If the hashtag nonsense had not happened at all then the end results would have been the same even without someone to pick up the banner and "champion the cause."
I'm not being dismissive(if that were the case then these posts would not exist at all). I'm being realistic in the replies to a few posts which take themselves just a smidge(See: A lot) too seriously for a video game.
The examples which, intentionally, referred to made up stack mechanic examples were a means by which to address all new powers which use such mechanics as it appears to be the new current trend in CO. It was not only referring to Telepathy.
Raven: I find myself dissagreeing with with your version of what happened in that I would substitute other names for the contributors who caused the changes and, even then, I would not put so much weight on the player input based on things I was told via the process. Crush impliments a version which he did not like after testing and mathematical data(not things like "I think it should be named this" and "What if we had this?") so he changed it, tweaked it, and released the version that fit his actual vision. Be it good, bad, and/or buggy...it hit Live. Right now there are people on the PTS forums writing books on how they would do this and that and everything with desires which, IMO, far outweigh reasonable expectations in reguards to the work of one person. I suspect that when those new powers hit live there will be people who come out against them because they did not fit their personal vision but at least it would have happened without having to endure the #LaserSwordsNow nonsense. :cool:
And, Raven, to an extent you are correct. Persistance can pay off but it has to be tempered with tact, thoughtfulness, and logic in that process(I'm not saying you did not do this btw). A good portion of the whole #TelepathyNow business was just spamming threads, facebook, and twitter while being insulting, rude, and valueing opinions called facts over actual math. Hey, I wanted a DoT Form to go with "New" Telepathy and I lightly pestered Crush about it a few times. It didn't happen. I didn't take my toys and go home....I rolled a "New" Telepathy toon(with a smidge of Telekinesis for aesthetics and theme) and am enjoying the toon so far. We all have things we would like to see happen in this game. We all have our favorite powersets and themes. At the end of the day it's when we come together in a logical, applicable(non-spammy), tactful manner that others are more likely to be receptive. When they disagree with our "visions" then that's fine if they reply in the same fashion. Repeatedly spam bashing the same unrealistic points home over and over again while getting friends to basically parrot the same sentiments accomplishes nothing really. This is why, IMO, Earth came out better than "New" Telepathy(except for the MIA Passive, of course).
And now, more leveling with Mushin. My little "New" Telepathy toon. Oh, and before I forget, I might have a bug to add to your list but I need some more levels to get the adv points to test something. I'll get back to you on this.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
A bug you say! :eek:
*sets up her Bug Catcher 2000 Device and waits*
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Disagree for a few reasons Crosschan:
1. Whatever one thinks of #telepathy now and the outcome, denying it had impact and forced action...seems forced. Why else would they have revisited it?
2. Player involvement; this is a muddy area. I know people divide into camps and blame each other, but seriously no one has noticed advice briefly given by a certain nike character and a grimblack (in wrongly stickied threads and posts on pts) too the devs that was almost implemented until someone pointed out their respective and obvious too the point of trolling flaws? Granted Cryptic did eventually catch on and after realization shut down those stickied threads/posts/pts suggestions after learning it was a goof and had zero basis in reality. I credit the ability to make that distinction w/ our old staff. They listened, realized that some sticky threads were not based in co reality and thankfully terminated them, though having some of them up as long as they were did not reflect well on anyone. People here who knew better said little, and back then dev communication was possible. As in pm's and stuff. I can't in good conscience call anyone who participated in the last one of meaning to f the game like previous atttempts by long forgotten trolls.
10 bucks says if hashtag laser sword takes off, there might be a later review. You can hold me tooo that.
1st off let me start by commending you on a fine example of what I was talking about previously. This is a completely rational and civil disagreement with my previous post. Now let me address it real quick.
For your 1st point I do think #TelepathyNow had impact and forced action. The impact was annoyance and the action was banhammering due to it's spammy and usually(not in all cases) tactless use. As for why "New" Telepathy was revisited. It was simply finished by the person who started it once their other obligations(NW) were completed to the point where they had the time and ability to do so. I believe, completely, that had this campaign never happened the same results would have occurred. Even then I would not consider this a "Review" so much as an "Addition" since very little(Ego Sprites got a minor change), to my recollection, was changed in the previously existing powers.
If your opinion were to be correct then we would have a plant set and a claws review by now(among other things). That we do not have these things at this time shows how even more civil attempts have met with crickets. On the other hand, Roxstar's thread was just a well written thread and we did get an Earth Set(mostly) from that exercise so, IMO, it's not entirely hopeless but, as previously stated, I deal in concrete these days when it comes to CO. You gotta "Show me da content" on Live.
Raven, I am pleased to relay to you that I was wrong about the bug. I had noticed an odd difference in CD timers not matching up between two of the powers but, silly me, it's because one of them was R1 and the other was R2. Now that they are both R2 I am happy to report I have no issue to report. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
:biggrin: Yay!
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Wasn't the timeline something like this:
Don't know how you'd call that forcing action if it takes almost a year. And they didn't revisit Telepathy, they just finished what they started (unless you're talking about the initial
Anyway, I know plenty of folks who like the new powers. I know a few that thinks they all suck (not anyone in this thread). I personally like them.
Raven - are you updating the first post to include the newest fixes? I think some stuff was fixed in yesterday's patch.
I like the new powers, I am just pretty bummed out the only CC I can gain via them is in Old Telepathy and one of the new Telepathy powers. My understanding of the initial version of telepathy (and thus the reason behind their production) was to make Telepaths (in the support/CC category) have a place in higher level foes, which would indirectly give life to the CC game play strategy.
However, as gradii has pointed out, brain-tricity is an issue for me. It always has been, as the effects for Mental Leech has. Both look "messy" in my personal opinion (not so much Mental Storm as Mental Leech mind you). I complained about this from the very start (when FX initially switched from neat to what it is now) but you get on with it.
Yes I will be, main and play style breaking bugs were squashed.
There are still a few visuals wise and icon wise and one bit of text is wrong on Shadow of Doubt (second paragraph).
In the main I am extremely pleased my OP was noticed and something was done about it.
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Your Ebbing Lifeforce gives 66 Health Points to Player X. <--was the combat log message.
This was the same message I got pre fix.
This is all a fluke so far. I need to get my hands on my opponent who I fought for this effect so I can try and replicate it..
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Pre made teams are fine, it's just occasional alerts (this is post fix update). I end up tanking for my alert team which is probably why I get agro lol.
A recent quote from a player with Mentella in Grab:
"Jesus, Mentella! Can you save some butt for us to kick?" lol
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I don't care how much you feel about correcting history and exposing hobo's "annoyance" factor.
You simply aren't contributing anything to this thread. Period. Nothing. Other than getting it locked.
This is not an ad hominem or bickering, but pure observation.
Can we move the <bleep> forward?
Thank you.
If the thread has been silent over 2 months, let it stay that way.
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