Hope is a dangerous thing

2

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  • gavinruneblade
    gavinruneblade Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    kirsros wrote: »
    Really now? Because as far as I see, Champions is the only game cryptic made that doesn't have a foundry. What makes CO any different?

    Even dstahl over at STO is talking about how they wish they had the manpower to make neverwinter's version of the foundry work with STO.

    And they don't have the time or manpower to get all of the new elachi game artifacts tagged to work in the foundry.

    So if STo doesn't have enough time and manpower just to flag already existing game elements to work with a version of the foundry that does work, how much more manpower would be required to get a foundry to exist where it doesn't at all?
  • chaelk
    chaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    and if Startrek can't manage it with the 50 devs they had last year plus the extras from interveiws earlier this year. (Someone blabbed about the interveiws on NW forums)


    heres the link for the cryptic north interview, read it and weep.
    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193707

    they are working on all three games.

    They mention polishing Champions. They have been hleping with CO since January.

    Especially read and laugh at, the answers to The MMO market is really risky. How do you plan on mitigating that risk?
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  • jennymachx
    jennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    a 10 minute adventure pack... look... I'm trying really hard to get excited by the idea... but...

    I was under the assumption that there would be a few more missions for the Fatal Error arc. I wasn't basing my views for it to be an AP just on a single mission alone.
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jennymachx wrote: »
    I was under the assumption that there would be a few more missions for the Fatal Error arc. I wasn't basing my views for it to be an AP just on a single mission alone.

    I'm just going by what we've been getting with this "bite size content", Lemurian Invasion and onward.

    Let's see if what we've gotten so far has lined up...


    First part: 5 minute mission... check.

    Second Part: 10-15 minute mission... check.


    I won't be surprised if up next is the final fight. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it becomes an extended story arc like a comic series would be.

    As always, I'm excited by the prospect of it... but completely devoid of hope.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • chaelk
    chaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Finally, I brought up the recent news about the creation/acquisition of the new subsidiary, Cryptic North. While the company is set to begin work on the seemingly-ignored Champions Online, I asked Stahl what, if anything, we should expect to hear in regard to their involvement in STO. Stahl seemed very pleased in being able to say that there was another team that was working on Cryptic games. He said it has been great to have another "pipeline of talent" as well as another experienced executive producer who is involved in their regular meetings and is able to provide fresh and new perspectives to all of the games being developed by Cryptic. While Stahl wouldn't comment as to what, specifically, the Cryptic North team might be working on, he was able to say that what they have already been able to accomplish has been "phenomenal."



    SOUNDS LIKE A RINGING ENDORSEMENT OF CHAMPIONS ONLINE TO ME![/QUOTE]

    sounds more like he's happy with what they've accomplished on STO.
    They have supposedly been working on CO since January.
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  • chaelk
    chaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    I'm just going by what we've been getting with this "bite size content", Lemurian Invasion and onward.

    Let's see if what we've gotten so far has lined up...

    First part: 3 weeks of lockboxes.... check
    second part: 5 minute mission... check. playable once per day
    third part: more weeks of lockboxes

    Second Part: 10-15 minute mission... check.playable once per day


    I won't be surprised if up next is the final fight. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it becomes an extended story arc like a comic series would be.

    In this case, new costume peices fromSocrates adn a pair of booties from Cyberlord

    As always, I'm excited by the prospect of it... but completely devoid of hope.

    OK corrected that for you.
    Me, I'm not even bothering to look forward to it. I have enough depression as it is. I find it safer, just to take whatever turns up.
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  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    chaelk wrote: »
    OK corrected that for you.
    Me, I'm not even bothering to look forward to it. I have enough depression as it is. I find it safer, just to take whatever turns up.

    Okay, if you factor in the lockboxes, then it makes a complete adventure pack.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • jonsills
    jonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    You know, on reflection, you're right.

    Hope Blackwell can be a very dangerous thing.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • artmanpwe
    artmanpwe Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    "Home. Where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this prison is the worst hell on earth: Hope. Every man who has ventured here over the centuries has looked up to the light and imagined climbing to freedom. So easy, so simple and like shipwrecked men turning to seawater from uncontrollable thirst, many have died trying. I learned here that there can be no true despair without hope." -Bane
    ...Since 2009.
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  • crypticarmsman
    crypticarmsman Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    chaelk wrote: »
    and if Startrek can't manage it with the 50 devs they had last year plus the extras from interveiws earlier this year. (Someone blabbed about the interveiws on NW forums)


    heres the link for the cryptic north interview, read it and weep.
    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193707

    they are working on all three games.

    They mention polishing Champions. They have been hleping with CO since January.

    Especially read and laugh at, the answers to The MMO market is really risky. How do you plan on mitigating that risk?

    Well, they do pretty much state what they're doing (back when the article posted at least on 6/6/13):
    Q: What's Cryptic North going to be working on, exactly?

    RW: Right now we are working hand-in-hand with the Cryptic Studios team on Champions Online, though we contribute to Star Trek Online and Neverwinter.

    So it does seem at least at one point CO was at the top of their 'to do' list. How long that will be the case is anyone's guess.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • caycepollard
    caycepollard Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    I'm just going by what we've been getting with this "bite size content", Lemurian Invasion and onward.

    Let's see if what we've gotten so far has lined up...


    First part: 5 minute mission... check.

    Second Part: 10-15 minute mission... check.


    I won't be surprised if up next is the final fight. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it becomes an extended story arc like a comic series would be.

    As always, I'm excited by the prospect of it... but completely devoid of hope.
    I'm pretty sure they already told us that "Part III" would be the end, and "rotated" in & out, like the other "special" missions (Harmon Labs, etc.) I'm not energetic enough to dig for a quote, but if y'all search for TrailTurtle (since s/he is the only person brave enough to post here) posts about the subject and you'll probably find them.
  • trailturtle
    trailturtle Administrator Posts: 5,496 Perfect World Employee
    edited August 2013
    I'm pretty sure they already told us that "Part III" would be the end, and "rotated" in & out, like the other "special" missions (Harmon Labs, etc.) I'm not energetic enough to dig for a quote, but if y'all search for TrailTurtle (since s/he is the only person brave enough to post here) posts about the subject and you'll probably find them.

    Correct. Part 1 and 2 are perm, the finale will be an alert, which will enter the normal custom alert rotation.
  • chaelk
    chaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    so does this mean we get tol (attempt) to beat up on Cyber-nomind, for attacking for harmless little Cyberlord. Whose only interest was taking over the world..
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  • chaoswolf820
    chaoswolf820 Posts: 734 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    vikaernes wrote: »
    "I can't tell you what they've been working on but it's super phenomenal and ****-awesome."

    This sounds like bull**** PR speak meant to keep people excited and anticipating the best when there's nothing. In other words...

    A Stahl tactic.

    ... you have no idea how long I've been saving that one up.


    ...well played, sir, well played.
  • jennymachx
    jennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Well there goes my hope of it maybe being turned into an AP then.
  • crypticbuxom
    crypticbuxom Posts: 4,439 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I'm disappointed that there won't be a 3rd part before the alert finale. Though glad its a lot better than the "grand" and laughable second part of Forum Malvanum.

    What's that? You didn't know there was a second part of Forum Malvanum? *Hint: it was the second race track.
  • clcmercy
    clcmercy Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    As The Architect in Matrix Revolutions stated,

    "Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

    All that I have read on these forums suggests to me that people keep hoping for things they know (or at least highly suspect) will never happen.

    Is this strength or weakness?

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • lafury001200
    lafury001200 Posts: 567 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    As The Architect in Matrix Revolutions stated,

    "Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

    All that I have read on these forums suggests to me that people keep hoping for things they know (or at least highly suspect) will never happen.

    Is this strength or weakness?

    As much as I hate the Architect (almost as much as Ewoks) his assertion is correct. It's both.

    Asking doesn't hurt (unless it's an issue that has been decided and people just willfully ignore it). Without hope, I see no reason to ask.

    So both.
  • gamehobo
    gamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Also, I just finished Reading Book one of Hunger Games.

    (The relevance of this post lies in subtext.)
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    As The Architect in Matrix Revolutions stated,

    "Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

    All that I have read on these forums suggests to me that people keep hoping for things they know (or at least highly suspect) will never happen.

    Is this strength or weakness?

    It's neither. Because this is a video game. It's just people wanting a better experience in a niche genre and doing what little they can to try to improve the only source of that experience.

    Talking about strengths and weaknesses of the entire human race in relation to that seems a bit melodramatic.

    Oh wait, did I forget where I am again?

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • scorpagor
    scorpagor Posts: 607 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    It's neither. Because this is a video game. It's just people wanting a better experience in a niche genre and doing what little they can to try to improve the only source of that experience.

    Talking about strengths and weaknesses of the entire human race in relation to that seems a bit melodramatic.

    2wrke_zps26cfc991.jpg

    This is serious business you know!
  • chaelk
    chaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I'd say, we're optimistic delusionals.
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  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    scorpagor wrote: »
    2wrke_zps26cfc991.jpg

    This is serious business you know!

    TRAILTURTLE

    COSTUME SUGGESTION ABOVE

    pass it on to the devs please :)

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • jonsills
    jonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    scorpagor wrote: »
    2wrke_zps26cfc991.jpg
    You realize, of course, that this is not the correct way to smoke a salmon...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • shieldtower
    shieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    You realize, of course, that this is not the correct way to smoke a salmon...

    Or a cigarette. It should be lit.
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  • sockmunkey
    sockmunkey Posts: 4,504 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    You realize, of course, that this is not the correct way to smoke a salmon...

    That's not a salmon. Its obviously a Chicken of the Sea. :tongue:
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    As The Architect in Matrix Revolutions stated,

    "Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

    All that I have read on these forums suggests to me that people keep hoping for things they know (or at least highly suspect) will never happen.

    Is this strength or weakness?

    Not me I am happeh with the game as it is.

    While you were out, I logged onto Champions Online picked up some guys dumper truck and flung it into a big wall and if you don't like it, tough! I've had my fun, and that's all that matters.

    *listens to drum and base while drilling holes into the other side of the building*
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
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  • deathsentry2012
    deathsentry2012 Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I've grown actually quite addicted but as with others, am frustrated by the promise of this game and what it really could be.

    Honestly, character customization -> unparalleled!! Can't even express how cool it is for example, to craft a toon that's a tank but also uses a fireball and laser beam.

    My only frustration is at 40, beyond alerts, adventure packs/comic series, there isn't much to do and I've done each AP/CS at least 5 times across my different toons.

    I know the Foundry will never come to CO and that's sad as it would really help in this matter. I guess even when/if other superhero MMOs come out, none will have the customization so I'll be with CO for a long time, but regarding lack of permanent, engaging content, that is what will eventually make me go after other games.

    I do think that the Fatal Error ones are a start but they are nothing compared to the APs/CSs that CO already has..hopefully the goal is to create more of them.
  • voyagersix
    voyagersix Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    They drop a crumb on your plate and you start worrying that we're being spoiled. I love you guys too :)

    People need to be reminded of the scope of content advancement compared then and now, that the entirety of Vibora Bay and everything in it was originally intended to be a $10 unlock.

    Two missions, an alert and a few costume pieces is an anemic effort, especially if you glance over at what's happened in STO these last few months.
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    voyagersix wrote: »
    People need to be reminded of the scope of content advancement compared then and now, that the entirety of Vibora Bay and everything in it was originally intended to be a $10 unlock.

    Two missions, an alert and a few costume pieces is an anemic effort, especially if you glance over at what's happened in STO these last few months.

    STO has a larger playerbase so gets more love.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    STO has a larger playerbase so gets more love.

    Also, people always take care of other peoples' kids a lot better than they take care of their own.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    Also, people always take care of other peoples' kids a lot better than they take care of their own.

    Star Trek Online gets more dev love because it has more players more players mean more money more money means they can spent extra on that game.

    People need to understand Champions with its average player base doesn't warrant serious dev time. You cant compare what STO gets to what CO gets. There is lots of different factors in play.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • zahinder
    zahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    For eff's sake, YOU DON'T GET THE BIG PLAYER POLULATION WITHOUT THE DEV WORK.

    This is like saying you'll bother to bathe once people start actually dating you.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

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    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

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  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    For eff's sake, YOU DON'T GET THE BIG PLAYER POLULATION WITHOUT THE DEV WORK.

    This is like saying you'll bother to bathe once people start actually dating you.

    Have you played STO. Even before its FTP it had twice the population of Champions. Now STO is FTP its got a bigger playerbase than DCUO.
    How did it get this playerbase? The I.P Star Trek. Champions cannot compete with that and to make matters worse theres now Neverwinter with the D&D I.P.

    Champions is the red headed step child of the CO engine games. It wont get the same dev time as the other two.
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • zahinder
    zahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Except STO had WAY more content before, during, and after, more communication, and a fairly active development schedule.

    Except for KDF (until very recently) and pvp, and those have gotten commiserate complaints. And, hey, until recently KDF was in the same sphere of CO -- 'we're not going to put much into KDF because few play KDF because we didn't put effort into KDF'

    It should be really clear to Crypic how this works.

    Mind you, 'we screwed up and now don't want to throw resources into our screw-up rather than starting fresh' makes a certain defeatist logic.


    It should be really interesting to see if KDF suddenly becomes worth developing for, now that they eliminated the insane obstacles to play one. (Though the fleet station system may continue to have a dampening effect on them)
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Except STO had WAY more content before, during, and after, more communication, and a fairly active development schedule.

    Except for KDF (until very recently) and pvp, and those have gotten commiserate complaints. And, hey, until recently KDF was in the same sphere of CO -- 'we're not going to put much into KDF because few play KDF because we didn't put effort into KDF'

    It should be really clear to Crypic how this works.

    Mind you, 'we screwed up and now don't want to throw resources into our screw-up rather than starting fresh' makes a certain defeatist logic.


    It should be really interesting to see if KDF suddenly becomes worth developing for, now that they eliminated the insane obstacles to play one. (Though the fleet station system may continue to have a dampening effect on them)

    See you have a point. But my point also stands. Consider this.

    Cryptic wont develop CO more due to the average player base but if they did develop and advertise CO more it might have a larger player base.

    It seems to be a gamble Cryptic wont make. A very viscous circle >_>
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    Star Trek Online gets more dev love because it has more players more players mean more money more money means they can spent extra on that game.

    People need to understand Champions with its average player base doesn't warrant serious dev time. You cant compare what STO gets to what CO gets. There is lots of different factors in play.



    Also, people always take care of other peoples' kids a lot better than they take care of their own.

    Translation: STO gets more dev love because they have Gene Roddenberry looking over their shoulder making sure they don't neglect his kid. They have the population thanks to him, after all

    CO had a higher population once too... but since no one is looking over their shoulder for CO's sake, that population wasn't a motivating factor. Guarantee you if Star Trek suddenly became Cryptic property, STO would have been abandoned just like CO was when NWO came to the fore.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »


    Also, people always take care of other peoples' kids a lot better than they take care of their own.

    Translation: STO gets more dev love because they have Gene Roddenberry looking over their shoulder making sure they don't neglect his kid. They have the population thanks to him, after all

    CO had a higher population once too... but since no one is looking over their shoulder for CO's sake, that population wasn't a motivating factor. Guarantee you if Star Trek suddenly became Cryptic property, STO would have been abandoned just like CO was when NWO came to the fore.
    nepht wrote: »
    Star Trek Online gets more dev love because it has more players more players mean more money more money means they can spent extra on that game.

    People need to understand Champions with its average player base doesn't warrant serious dev time. You cant compare what STO gets to what CO gets. There is lots of different factors in play.

    Already mentioned that.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • zahinder
    zahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    See you have a point. But my point also stands. Consider this.

    Cryptic wont develop CO more due to the average player base but if they did develop and advertise CO more it might have a larger player base.

    It seems to be a gamble Cryptic wont make. A very viscous circle >_>

    I think we're having a heated agreement.

    Yeah. I don't fault them for taking a very low-risk approach and dribbling things along. Well, ok, I fault them a little... but I understand it.

    What gets me is the play at wide-eyed dismay that SOMEHOW the customers faltered and the implication that it's circumstances outside of Cryptic's control.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    There is lots of different factors in play.

    I just made a point :D

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    I think we're having a heated agreement.

    Yeah. I don't fault them for taking a very low-risk approach and dribbling things along. Well, ok, I fault them a little... but I understand it.

    What gets me is the play at wide-eyed dismay that SOMEHOW the customers faltered and the implication that it's circumstances outside of Cryptic's control.

    Somebody at Cryptic needs to put some faith in the product they made and show the world how awesome it is.

    It would need more stuff like extra powers , a zone maybe but at least a new Adventure Pack and of course advertisement.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »
    There is lots of different factors in play.

    I just made a point :D

    Yeah and its not just CBS you got to remember the game is also tied into the movie. And movie folk are the biggest trolls in entertainment .
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • zahinder
    zahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Yeah. I think they could EASILY revive CO if they put their back into it.

    Sigh.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • kallethen
    kallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    STO has a larger playerbase so gets more love.

    While this is probably a factor, I am of the opinion that the main reason STO and NW have more dev love is because they are based on two extremely popular settings that are owned by major corporations with deep pockets. STO has CBS and NW has Hasbro. Both companies invested money into their respective games.

    CO, on the other hand, has no corporate overlords to drop wads of cash into the game. Cryptic itself owns the online publishing rights for the Champions universe. Also, we should be honest and admit that Champions as an IP does not have the name recognition of either Star Trek or Dungeons & Dragons. So, playerbase is smaller and there just isn't the pile of disposable income to invest.


    The upshot of this is that Cryptic/PWE doesn't have to worry about pissing off said corporate overlords with Champions. STO and NW likely need to make a decent return on investment to their corporations, or lose the licensing rights. Champions doesn't have that sword of Damocles over it's head.
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

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  • zahinder
    zahinder Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    The thing is, CO has pretty much no competition and can conceivably scavenge off of every similar property.

    That is, new Wolverine movie? Promote CO. New Superman movie? Promote CO. CoH shuts down? Promote CO. New Marvel game turns out to be pretty awful? Promote...

    You can leap on EVERYTHING and make it work for you.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • sistersilicon
    sistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Once a product stops improving, the market for that product stops growing. That SHOULD be gobsmackingly obvious.

    You know why you can't buy a new Ford Ranger in the US anymore? Because Ford spent the final 10-odd years of the Ranger's life steadfastly refusing to upgrade the chassis, powertrain, and styling (interior and exterior). All Ford did was swap out unpopular paint colors and wheel designs every few years. Ford claimed that it would be too expensive to improve the platform. Meanwhile, in the years since the Ranger was finally canceled, the average selling price of the F-150 has skyrocketed.

    Sounds kinda like Cryptic's business model for CO vs STO and NW, doesn't it?

    If Cryptic and/or PWE thinks that they can grow Champions just by stubbornly ringing the "Character Customization: Better than DCUO!" bell, they are doomed to failure. If they're trying to slowly suffocate us by stagnation, on the other hand, they're doing a bang-up job. (Just don't blame me when I keep struggling to get this pillow off my face until my dying breath.)
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • jonsills
    jonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    smoochan wrote: »
    Translation: STO gets more dev love because they have Gene Roddenberry looking over their shoulder...
    There's a Ouija board in the STO offices? (Gene's been dead since '91 - some of his ashes were put in orbit a few years back.)
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    There's a Ouija board in the STO offices? (Gene's been dead since '91 - some of his ashes were put in orbit a few years back.)

    Star Trek is about as mystical as cultural forces get. Have you seen what it can cause people to do? Compared to what you see at cons, the idea that Gene's ghost is literally at the Cryptic offices threatening to drag their souls to hell if they slip up is straight believable.

    Thanks for popping in to give the trivia though.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • shieldtower
    shieldtower Posts: 1,208 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    jonsills wrote: »
    There's a Ouija board in the STO offices? (Gene's been dead since '91 - some of his ashes were put in orbit a few years back.)

    If a Ouija board is being used then they most certainly aren't talking to Gene with it. Ouija boards are the Chatroulette or Omegle of paranormal communication. inb4 that crap doesn't work in the first place
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  • gamehobo
    gamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Cryptic made its move already. We don't know the full scope of what is being done, but according to their corporate releases, they are attempting to separate CO's development expenses from those of the other games.

    This makes the product both more attractive for sale and easier to put resources into should the product prove fruitful.

    My guess is that they moved the operating expense to Seattle because it's much cheaper labor than here in the bay. Cutting operations expenses is also more attractive when selling it off.

    If the game isn't wildly popular in three fiscal quarters I suspect they will move to sell it rather than operate it.

    The last hope for those who want this game expended in my gregarious opinion.