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Should a new CO Wiki be created?
foxyperson
Posts: 251 Arc User
The wiki is full of obsolete and otherwise incomplete data and is in a state of abandonment. Mails to the wiki's owner seem to get no reply.
Do we have people around that's savvy enough with the game's numbers as to create a new wiki, preferably one that does receive updates and isn't as exacting with queries' syntaxis?
Do we have people around that's savvy enough with the game's numbers as to create a new wiki, preferably one that does receive updates and isn't as exacting with queries' syntaxis?
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@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
or this: http://championsonline.wikia.com/wiki/Champions_Online_Wiki (Updated 2011. Yup.)
Or make a 4th one.
Good luck.
Don't expect Cryptic/PW help on things.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I was addressing the community.
I'm pretty sure the stance isn't bad, considering under the community tab above you can find both a direct link to the wiki as well as a link under the Community Hub.
Deliciously nutritious!
It'd be a shame to start a new wiki when CO wiki is so well put together.
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
Explosions and hell portals everywhere.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
It be uptodate with latest information.
:rolleyes:
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Yeah, lohr really had an iron grip on the wiki previously, and was pretty unwelcoming to people editing things. I... That's against the entire idea of a wiki, isn't it? We're reaping the benefits, now, since she's gone and a lot of the people (myself included) who woulda been on the project from the get-go now just can't be bothered. Not that we can even try, anyway, since she still has that grip even though she doesn't even touch it herself.
I just don't get it.
RIP Caine
I never added new content to the Paragon Wiki, but I had an account there, and I'd fix typos, format broken tables, fix links, create redirects, minor crap like that.
I'd be doing that constantly on this wiki, but... obviously my help isn't wanted.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
yeah some people get a little...strange with their wikis. Sometimes it's not too farfetched as with every 10 people that helps contribute and etc., there is always that one that come in and wrecks everything. And even if they get banned forever, soon another take their place and do it all over again and soon it end up as more fighting off people who either have wrong information, who think they are right and everyone is wrong, or there just to cause chaos and less on updating/editing the information.
Anyone remember the chaos of Wikipedia early days? Even now, there are some but there are methods and controls but the early days...holy jeebus
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
A new or existing other version needs someone who knows how to deal with the troll issues (it's not me, I'm Wiki-construction illiterate, not having ever tried) to take a hand. Sadly, this is a time-consuming, thankless job so it's really really hard to get someone to tackle the issue.
The wiki was trolled by the wikia lot. CO wiki was better and the CO wikia guys have a yam up their **** about it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Maybe if Lohr opened the door something might get done by others. Only a handful of people working on a Wiki is absolutely counter to the whole concept of a Wiki. Pfft, it's not like 90% of what's there isn't simply a port of the general info that's in the game. There's not much there that could be "wrecked" or something.
That's nice. Kind of irrelevant, though. Every Wiki has troll issues. Many many of them solved them without going to ground like an abused hermit. If Lohr's not interested anymore, pass it along to someone else.
Dec I will have to inform you on the forumites channel Lohr asked for some info to help with the wiki and the devs refused. Lohr liked to have all the proper stats to make the wiki perfect but didnt get the assistance she was used to and consider this if Cryptic arnt going to help her now due to new PW policies why should she bother anymore. It was done in her free time for nothing .
Oh and before others chip in I am no Lohr fangirl. She thinks ima weirdo and I thinks she's a bit of a mooface. I just respect her and her friends hard work.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The only player I know that matches Lohr's knowledge of the game and could possibly create a new wiki is Kenpo but hes a busy man these days.
Of course Kali knows as much as Ken but he is normally busy standing in his magic spot
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Oh God No. I have to disagree right there. The person in charge MUST have in depth knowledge of the game. I think Lohr is a prime example as little as a year ago the wiki was epic and it was because the right people where in charge. The Wikia the Wiki's rival is still going no one uses it, ask yourself why is this?
I think people underestimated how important Lohr was to the game and now she seems to have left people are taking notice.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Why? It's an administrative position. Yes, the people doing the actual postings have to know what they're talking about, but there's whole editing and revising processes in place.
Well, for one thing, I've always stayed away from Wikia because it's had bad malware problems in the past. So am I to assume Lohr bailed when EVERYTHING changed (On Alert)? Simply because the devs wouldn't give hard numbers? That's only one aspect of a Wiki. If she's going to leave it dead, she should turn it over to someone else. Anyone else. Frankly, as is, it's nothing that anyone couldn't pull out of the game text.
It's a Wiki. It's not the game. If Lohr was actually important to the game itself, that's completely beside the point. But let's look at facts and questions on the ground right now:
1. The Wiki has been more or less abandoned. New people who want to help with it cannot.
2. It's possible, maybe even likely that other Wikis do not succeed because people want to post on the Wiki that's "officially linked".
3. Wikis are not "one-man-shows". They're community based. Is it possible Lohr just went all "MINE MINE MINE" on it? That's not at all in the spirit of a Wiki.
4. Yes, there are often troll issues. Other places seem to have solved those problems as they go along. What's keeping this Wiki from doing so (other than the locked door).
5. What do we do with a Wiki that's (more or less) about a year out of date, and wasn't anything close to comprehensive for then? One person has locked the door to a community resource. I don't care how much work they put into it or why they locked it up, it's just not right. If the work already put into it is such an issue, clear the damn thing before giving it away and let someone else rebuild it.
6. It's all probably moot, anyway, as it's going to be tough getting any one person to put a lot of work into a Wiki in a dying/stasis game. But that's why you open it up. Many hands make light work.
It was in CO.
BUT if a new wiki pops up thats full of community spirit I will be overjoyed ( seriously I will ) and I hope it does I would even help out with such a thing. But it would still need the help of some old vets.
But lets not diminish the importance of Lohr to the game the game is more than halfway through its life and I cant see a player ever matching her achievements .
Lohr was frankly the greatest player this game has ever seen and this is coming from a player that thinks shes a b@$%h.
Oh and ask about Wikigate 2011 the time Lohr got forum banned and the community exploded in her defense. It lead to a moderator losing her job.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
To us oldies Lohr's work helped us through our first steps in the game and it was very much appreciated. And any thread about CO Wiki's of course her names gonna pop up its just how it is in CO land and has plenty to do with it ^__^
And hardly the Lohr appreciation society like I said we dont get along any forumite can back this up.
BUT of course thats a side issue and if anyone is starting up a new wiki I know quite a bit about the supernatural/bestial builds not to mention Champions lore and would be happy to help.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
And that's all I was trying to get across. I'm sure Lohr's a wonderful person, but that doesn't get us a functional Wiki.
Get Cryptic to do a new wiki. Aren't they the ones with all the information?
Lohr has done enough for them already. If it's dead, too bad. If she doesn't want to bother handing the torch over, too bad. She's the one who made the initiative and started the wiki to benefit the community as a whole, whether they thanked her directly for it or not. She did the work without asking for anything in return. If she has decided to abandon it and not give a rat's behind about the game anymore, so be it.
Cryptic has shown that they're perfectly fine mooching off the efforts of others not on their payroll. We've already been tasked as being involuntary in-game moderators to handle reports of abuse and RMT spam with the ability to mute others for 24 hours. They're the ones who decided to provide the link to the wiki on the official site to substitute for making an effort to provide official documentation on their part. If the wiki's outdated, then Cryptic should start doing one of their own to replace it.
Pretty sure that she is not in anyone's way. Nothing at all, that Lohr is responsible for at least, to keep others from creating their own version.
There's kind of a big difference between asking someone to not get in the way, and asking someone to hand over the work that they did, and for which they are paying to host. For that matter, that she continues to maintain the wiki at all provides a tool for anyone else wishing to create their own. I am sure that separating the out of date from the current on the wiki will be easier than compiling everything from scratch.
I definitely encourage those interested in an updated wiki to put their time and money where their mouths are. Complaining that you don't care for how someone else spent their own time and money in an effort to provide a service to the community, that their efforts were not up to your standards, that they did it wrong somehow is unproductive. Get the ball rolling on your own wiki ! (please note that this section is not directed at you personally decorum)
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
It did not always have that, "successful," spot. It earned it over time. Maybe someone else will consider doing the same. If people are not willing to produce something better to replace a faulty, "official," site then that is of course their choice.
But their decision to not produce an alternative to an, "official,"wiki doesn't make it somehow wrong, or, "just not right," for someone to decide what they want to do, or not do for that matter, with something they built, they paid (are continuing to pay) for, they own.
Ultimately that successful spot seems likely to stay with the best wiki option available. If no one is willing to provide a better option, and I have not seen much indication that anyone else is willing to fork over the time and money to do so, then that spot will likely continue to be held by the best option, regardless of (fairly significant) flaws, available.
For what it is worth its not unheard of for people to produce extremely viable alternatives to an official wiki. Dulfy seems to be as much of, if not more, a go-to site than the official wiki for GW2. Perhaps the same could happen here. Or perhaps TT would arrange for the link to be changed to a more up to date site if such were available.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
That simply won't happen until the link to Lohr's is taken down. Catch-22.
I apologize for my wording. I have nothing personal against Lohr at all. It's wrong that CO doesn't have a decent Wiki. It's not Lohr's "wrong", though.
Catch-22 again. Sigh, oh well, I guess.
Certainly acceptable suggestions to my mind.
There isn't stopping anyone from making their own wiki with entirely up to date information along with anything else about the layout in a way that's considered better, and then appeal to Cryptic to make a link to that wiki instead.
You're also assuming that people get to know about the wiki's existence exclusively through the site and not from ingame chat. If someone wants to make their own wiki that's considered better, then they could simply just spread the knowledge about it ingame and via the forums rather than rely on the main site page to do it for them.
Honestly I doubt it would happen even if the link was taken down.
Its a lot of work (I honestly have no idea how expensive it would be) for players to invest in a game that some feel is only marginally above maintenance mode.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Technically, no. Pragmatically? It's going to be hard to recruit people to work on another Wiki when it's not the "real" Wiki.
That's possible, but all in all I believe that people are only going to consider the one linked on the main page as the "real" Wiki and others will be pretenders. Really, though, this is the first game I've played where the game gave actual sanction and links to a Wiki. CoX's wasn't mentioned anywhere on the site. It was probably a bad idea for the link to exist at all, but hindsight, etc.
AFAIK, it's "having a website" expensive.
Too true. I certainly agree as I mentioned as much early. **wistful sigh**
I wish I had more time, a more reliable connection, more money and a better graphics card so I could give it a shot myself.
Now that's a lie. Lohr's Wiki for CO covers like 95-98% of the entire game and it's all right, accurate, and covers most everything that needs to be said.
Yes, it's getting (slightly) more and more out of date as time goes on, but frankly the blame is squarely on Cryptic's shoulders for not attempting to help in the SLIGHTEST when it came to figuring out things.
So yes, I entirely blame Cryptic for Lohr vanishing and for there not being anything 'better' out there. But for what it is, the current Wiki is really damn good.
Razira's Primus Database Page
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Instead of asking "Should we do another one?" How about just doing it and see how it goes? Advertise on the forums and in-game that you need people to help, and either it becomes a better wiki and is linked on the front page (which I think doesn't really matter) or it becomes a giant pile of buttfruit, but at least you tried.
Seriously, for every post you make saying "We need a new wiki," that time could be spent writing an entry into a new wiki.
I think it's a big case of "put up or shut up" right now, and I mean that in the nicest way possible!
http://championsonline.wiki-site.com/index.php/Main_Page
I'm gonna start formatting and such after work tonight. I'm a vet too, and I know a ton about the game. Maybe not as much as Lohr, but enough, and I've got a lot of dev experience with this sorta thing. We want a new official wiki? let's make one. This uses the same software as wikipedia, with a wysiwyg editor for ease of use.
I wouldn't mind some volunteers. O_o
RIP Caine
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
You guys wanna step on the bird girls toes ...good luck with that o.o<
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No... pretty sure she's just stopped playing.
It's probably as frustrating for them as for us but the amount of work that would be involved in doing a new wiki doesn't seem warranted by the state of the game. Best hope is to get the current wiki unlocked and let people fix it.
Good luck!
Vladcul, you out there and are you interested in getting Help?
From the standpoint of the ideal wiki, where everyone in the community regardless of faction and who they know can contribute, is one person that know how to build one. But be forewarned usually these community things usually end up being controlled by the owner's friends and cliques anyways and anyone that displeases them in anyway in game or out usually end up not being able to contribute regardless of what they know and thus still end up like Lohr except with a few more people that are considered "in". Plus I seen a few edits so someone besides Lohr have access.
If it's going to be actual community based and not just another punch line used to defend the "freedom" of one clique that controls the wiki, then make sure there are some trustworthy, preferable one that isn't COI or only people that are best friends with the creator or attached to them in any way, as moderator to step in when problems arises. And someone that good with editing and knows the game in and out will help. And lastly with some rules of the land. Is it opinion based wiki or strictly fact and either way rules should be enforced whether it's outsider or a clique member. Then I think the wiki will grow and become the new "official" wiki.
But if the new wiki is merely going to be a few's personal playground, then it probably end up on the level of wikia especially since it's on the premise that "one" person shouldn't hold all the power.
I don't know, I'm obviously not familiar with the situation, it just seems a waste to loose what is already there rather then be able to use it as a basis for further material.
Correct. You cannot edit the wiki unless logged in. And account creation is disabled; only Lohr can create an account for you.
Lohr owns the website and domain, and is also the head Admin for the wiki. It is possible that she may be willing to sell or transfer ownership of the site, but I have no idea if anyone's even asked, so I doubt anyone knows for sure.
It would definitely be easier to whip the existing wiki into shape than to create a new one, but until it's possible to get editing privileges for new contributors, the former just can't happen.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Project :Update Wiki
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=202911
Seemed as if it was going Gang Busters for about 2 months or so, back at the top of '013, and then just petered out. Has anyone on this board had any contact with Lohr, at all, since her last post?
Most recent post I found was 04-24-2013.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=3162941&postcount=7
I am pretty sure that she's not really playing CO right now, but I also know that she is, or at least was, still willing to contribute to the CO community even if not actively playing. This seems to be why she returned at the top of the year. If no one HAS been in contact with her, it might mean that RL simply caught up with her in a big way, in the way it often does for all of us. :rolleyes:
So, that said, if those that wish to update the Wiki cannot gain access to it, but still have a desire to create the much needed updates, then perhaps those most interested could use this very board to generate a non-wiki Wiki.
Personally, I would use the - Missions and Content - sub-forum, but that's just how I would proceed if I had the skill and time for a project like this. Much like - Big Box 'o Guides - that used to be popular until much of it's content became dated, someone could generate a Main thread called - The Big Thread of Wikable Updates - or what ever suits the admin of the project, then create as many threads as needed to accomplish the goal and link them back to the main thread.
Who ever decides to take the reins on a project like this might want to create the main thread in the middle of the night so that there will be plenty of - Created for later use - posts.
Well, this is just one poster's idea, and it's probably a lousy one, but it might stir some better ideas from other posters. :redface:
By all means, feel free to start a new Wiki.
Until then, I'll remain a proud member of hte "Lohr Appreciation Society". I even helped them post some hard to find costume options once.
Can't speak for anyone else's reason for slowing editing, but for me? Burnout. I edited a couple thousand pages. Started with updating missions. Completely reformatted hundreds of mission pages, updated the item rewards, did all missions (with a few exceptions, such as internal lair ones/APs), ran through them all twice to double check data and mission progression (Vibora was a pain but at least there's a known line of mission progression there now). Finished what I set out to do, started working on costume pages/specializations/vehicles.
It made me get very, very sick of the game for a while. Now that I've started playing a bit again, I'll try to start updating it more. I'd love for more people to have wiki access, or even for it to be open to the public again, but I have no idea how to register people/unlock it. Probably an admin only thing, anyway.
But to answer the thread name... if you all want to start a new wiki, feel free. Everyone working on a new one might end up better than what we've currently got.
Does anybody have a more direct contact means?