I'll be honest. I enjoyed my time with Neverwinter, but the community is so toxic. No one wants a Guardian Fighter, they just want pure DPS rogues, Clerics and Mages for CC. Who needs tanking.
Plus they'll just run the lairs with exploits and kick anyone who doesn't want to.
I was there for closed and open beta. Was there for about a month after launch. Once I saw they wanted an optional $60 for the next zone expansion I said no because I saw were this was going to go.
I'll be honest. I enjoyed my time with Neverwinter, but the community is so toxic. No one wants a Guardian Fighter, they just want pure DPS rogues, Clerics and Mages for CC. Who needs tanking.
Plus they'll just run the lairs with exploits and kick anyone who doesn't want to.
I was there for closed and open beta. Was there for about a month after launch. Once I saw they wanted an optional $60 for the next zone expansion I said no because I saw were this was going to go.
Pretty much my main beef with TERA; hate the "you must play this way" mentality that certain MMO communities have. Well that and the repetitive/dull endgame. Doesn't seem like NWO has much going for it....
Pretty much my main beef with TERA; hate the "you must play this way" mentality that certain MMO communities have. Well that and the repetitive/dull endgame. Doesn't seem like NWO has much going for it....
This right there is one of the main turn offs for me. And one of the main reason I still love CO. No one here cares what you play. No one here cares if stats, dps, or what have you is in the top 1% of the server. You can play what you like, how you like and do well.
NW is toxic in this respect. You have to be the right class for the dungeon. You have to have the right build, and the right gear score. If you play it wrong, you are just a scrub and a waste of time. And only the elite get to decide what is right.
The game is fun, and I enjoy the look and feel of it. But the community, more then anything else, is probably going to eventually poison the game for me.
I'll be honest. I enjoyed my time with Neverwinter, but the community is so toxic. No one wants a Guardian Fighter, they just want pure DPS rogues, Clerics and Mages for CC. Who needs tanking.
Plus they'll just run the lairs with exploits and kick anyone who doesn't want to.
I was there for closed and open beta. Was there for about a month after launch. Once I saw they wanted an optional $60 for the next zone expansion I said no because I saw were this was going to go.
Um, there's no $60 expansion.
There's an expansion, and a themed $60 pack associated with it (which is ... pretty much useless unless you are hot and bothered about riding a unicorn).
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I'll be honest. I enjoyed my time with Neverwinter, but the community is so toxic. No one wants a Guardian Fighter, they just want pure DPS rogues, Clerics and Mages for CC. Who needs tanking.
Plus they'll just run the lairs with exploits and kick anyone who doesn't want to.
I was there for closed and open beta. Was there for about a month after launch. Once I saw they wanted an optional $60 for the next zone expansion I said no because I saw were this was going to go.
Pretty much my main beef with TERA; hate the "you must play this way" mentality that certain MMO communities have. Well that and the repetitive/dull endgame. Doesn't seem like NWO has much going for it....
Yeah, it sucks when players ruin a game. This was one of my issues with NW, and practically my only issue with Tera.
It seems like there are a lot of people now with a "Get it over with" attitude towards their games. They're not really there to enjoy the content, they just want to do it the fastest, easiest way possible, so they can get their rewards and then go back to what they do when they're logged in but not actually playing. It's liike farming rewards in mmos is now just a part of some people's lives and they don't even consider it a fun game anymore, just another chore in their day they have to get out of the way.
One of the strengths of CO is that there's generally no reason to do this... of course, that doesn't stop people from doing it anyway!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The Foundry community is a better, and it's STILL godawful.
I get a special giggle out of the few angry foundry authors. You know the ones, the bitter angry "I hate cryptic" "I hate this game" types. That feel their vision and genius are so powerful that they are doing the world and the game a favor by sharing it. And by forcing themselves to slave away at this horrific game to do so.
In most cases their foundry completely sucks or ends up broken. Simply because they cant bring themselves to actually play it.
The ranting complaints when they cant get plays or bad reviews are the best parts.
Eh, it IS frustrating not getting plays and the set-up of the ratings system stinks.
It's a huge amount of work doing even a half-decent foundry mission, stuff changes without notice, and Cryptic is categorically unwilling to deal with griefing, either through setting up a different ratings scheme or actually cracking down on bad behavior.
I don't expect them to do the manpower-intensive griefing analysis, but they've had 3 or so years of STO Foundry to see what happens when you let people mess with one another.
Pretty much all the issues and complaints in NW Foundry are retreads of arguments that happened in STO.
It's easy to be bitter and angry, and I've succumbed to it from time to time. Because you put 80 hours into designing a mission that does cool stuff and get a few dozen plays. 'Shove ogres off a cliff' missions that took maybe an hour to design get thousands of plays and top billing.
I mean, some of it is the inevitable 'it's the internet, stupid.' But some of it is some really really REALLY bad design decisions from Cryptic.
Or to recap:
There are legitimate reasons to be really ticked off about the foundry situation. (And it's something that gives me some pause about my hope of CO Foundry -- because we'd see those problems here)
Thing is, mix 'legitimate grievance' with 'usual gamers' and you get a recipe for some... dramasplotion.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
There's an expansion, and a themed $60 pack associated with it (which is ... pretty much useless unless you are hot and bothered about riding a unicorn).
Keyword in my post was "optional" I know it's not a $60 zone expansion. It's just $60 for optional stuff like new races and that unicorn mount.
I'll be honest. I enjoyed my time with Neverwinter, but the community is so toxic. No one wants a Guardian Fighter, they just want pure DPS rogues, Clerics and Mages for CC. Who needs tanking.
Plus they'll just run the lairs with exploits and kick anyone who doesn't want to.
I was there for closed and open beta. Was there for about a month after launch. Once I saw they wanted an optional $60 for the next zone expansion I said no because I saw were this was going to go.
You'll sadly find this in most online games, yes even CO has these players. Just read zone chat, you'll hear someone whining about healers in alerts, low levels in alerts, someone not doing as much dps as they feel that person should be doing. But that is just the start, as has been commonly reported here on the forums there is also a section of players who go out of their way to get other players chat banned.
There really isn't much a company can do, especially one with a limited, or at the very least they seem to be very limited and quite unresponsive at times, in game GM presence. You can't really change people, you can only try to enforce some kind of COC. Failing to uphold a COC, evenly/'fairly', is likely to cause the players to believe that the inmates/player base runs the show.
In order for something like this to change, something drastic would have to happen on a global/society level. Which is very unlikely going to be achieved in an online game.
and how do you really enforce a COC. Banning players, they just come back as someone else, with a grudge. In regards to a community run chat ban system, thats bound for abuse.
and how do you really enforce a COC. Banning players, they just come back as someone else, with a grudge. In regards to a community run chat ban system, thats bound for abuse.
There are ways to enforce a COC, but most of them require more work then most companies are willing to do. It is usually easier to give players a way to ignore those who are breaking the coc or acting in a manner they find inappropriate.
The big thing though is to work with the community and making sure people know that GMs are actually active. A simple message in chat every now and then would be sufficiant for most, because much like when people see a police car while driving most people will see the GM and if the are misbehaving try to 'look good' to the GM
[...]
In order for something like this to change, something drastic would have to happen on a global/society level. Which is very unlikely going to be achieved in an online game.
It's also questionable whether it even should. You can't give players choices, and then punish them for choosing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
This argument. Allow me to grind it under my heel.
I don't care what you consider a 'superhero'. If they wouldn't fit in alongside the Justice League or the Avengers or some similarly diverse team of superheroes, they're heroes. They may be extraordinary heroes, but they are not by common definition 'superheroes'. By your logic I could also consider Dr. Who, Optimus Prime, and Luke Skywalker 'superheroes'. They are not. Please refrain from cheapening this definition, as it has lead to things like Sons of Anarchy at Comic-Con.
This argument. Allow me to grind it under my heel.
I don't care what you consider a 'superhero'. If they wouldn't fit in alongside the Justice League or the Avengers or some similarly diverse team of superheroes, they're heroes. They may be extraordinary heroes, but they are not by common definition 'superheroes'. By your logic I could also consider Dr. Who, Optimus Prime, and Luke Skywalker 'superheroes'. They are not. Please refrain from cheapening this definition, as it has lead to things like Sons of Anarchy at Comic-Con.
I posted a question...not an argument.
If you don't care what I consider a superhero...why did you feel the need to tell me to refrain from calling these characters superheroes?
My opinion on what I believe to be a superhero is my own.
If my opinion somehow cheapens your own opinion...then the problem is your own convictions.
If you don't care what I consider a superhero...why did you feel the need to tell me to refrain from calling these characters superheroes?
My opinion on what I believe to be a superhero is my own.
If my opinion somehow cheapens your own opinion...then the problem is your own convictions.
In my opinion, chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream is health food. The common usage of the term "health food", however, makes my personal opinion in this case wrong. If we allow "health food" to mean whatever everyone in their personal opinion thinks it should mean, then "health food" stops meaning anything.
The same holds true with the term "superheroes". If it just means whatever anyone wants it to, then you have to accept every possible definition. Do you want that? Because I will happily make you have to admit that Richard Simmons, Harry Potter, and the entire broadway cast of CATS are superheroes if you do.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
In my opinion, chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream is health food. The common usage of the term "health food", however, makes my personal opinion in this case wrong. If we allow "health food" to mean whatever everyone in their personal opinion thinks it should mean, then "health food" stops meaning anything.
The same holds true with the term "superheroes". If it just means whatever anyone wants it to, then you have to accept every possible definition. Do you want that? Because I will happily make you have to admit that Richard Simmons, Harry Potter, and the entire broadway cast of CATS are superheroes if you do.
I'm not sure why me considering the characters in NW to be superheroes made you go off on this "rant".
If a character such as Thor can be considered a superhero...then it is not a stretch for me to consider the characters in NW to be superheroes.
The identity of characters as superheroes isn't strictly abilities or power-level, it's also intimately tied up with genre.
I mean, yeah, power-level-wise, NW characters are on par with CO supers.
But that's like saying a motorboat is a plane. The power is flavored differently and has a different context.
If you are really into superheroes, NW is unlikely to scratch that itch.
Personally, I don't care much about superheroes, but I like really broad crazy flexible genre (like urban fantasy), and supers games hit that better than anything else.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
The identity of characters as superheroes isn't strictly abilities or power-level, it's also intimately tied up with genre.
I mean, yeah, power-level-wise, NW characters are on par with CO supers.
But that's like saying a motorboat is a plane. The power is flavored differently and has a different context.
If you are really into superheroes, NW is unlikely to scratch that itch.
Personally, I don't care much about superheroes, but I like really broad crazy flexible genre (like urban fantasy), and supers games hit that better than anything else.
I don't consider NW to be a "superhero" game...but I absolutely do view my character the same way I view Thor...and I do consider Thor to be a superhero.
In that sense...I don't believe it's a stretch to consider the PC characters in NW to be superheroes.
I don't think this view cheapens the definition of superhero at all...
...nor does it equate to calling cookie dough health food.
I don't consider NW to be a "superhero" game...but I absolutely do view my character the same way I view Thor...and I do consider Thor to be a superhero.
In that sense...I don't believe it's a stretch at all to consider the PC characters in NW to be superheroes.
I don't think this view cheapens the definition of superhero at all...
...nor does it equate to calling cookie dough health food.
To each their own I guess.
You flip flopped so much in this post, you should run for president... and then drop out halfway through.
"I don't consider ice cream to be health food, but I absoloutely do view my chocolate chip cookie dough the same way I view a protein shake... and I do consider a protein shake to be health food.
In that sense...I don't believe it's a stretch at all to consider chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream to be health food.
I don't think this view cheapens the definition of health food at all...
...nor does it equate to calling fantasy genre characters superheroes."
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Oh... is chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream offensive in your country? Here in America it's just ice cream.
You flip flopped so much in this post, you should run for president... and then drop out halfway through.
"I don't consider ice cream to be health food, but I absoloutely do view my chocolate chip cookie dough the same way I view a protein shake... and I do consider a protein shake to be health food.
In that sense...I don't believe it's a stretch at all to consider chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream to be health food.
I don't think this view cheapens the definition of health food at all...
...nor does it equate to calling fantasy genre characters superheroes."
Where did I flip flop?
...are you saying that I have to view NW as a superhero game in order to view my character as a superhero?
Interesting point of view, but that doesn't make Neverwinter characters "superheroes" in the eyes of the masses. Even in the D&D setting itself, the abilities used by the players aren't uncommon. Magic is practically everywhere, armor-clad men and women are a dime a dozen and the worship of boon-granting deities is part of everyday life. Hard to consider any of that Super when it's everywhere.
[Because he's a GOD in the modern world, thus equal in power to a superhero such as Iron Man or Captain America]
NW Hero < Superhero
[Because he/she is NOT a god, nor equal to a superhero. ]
Now a high powered NW/Forgotten Realms character such as Elminster might be equal to ... say Dr Strange?
But yea, a lot of what makes a superhero is style. But power matters to, Thor is -not- equal to a typical NW toon so that basis of comparison isn't that great.
For example, our supergroup The Blackwatch Defenders has a "Thor" or sorts, Ares, former god of war.
He's a 'superhero' in comparison to both ordinary people of Earth and the Land of Legends [one of which, Olympus, his home].
Granted not all 'superheroes' are powerful, Black Widow of the Avengers or Oni of the Blackwatch are good examples of low powered 'supers' who still clearly aren't normal because of the genre
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
...are you saying that I have to view NW as a superhero game in order to view my character as a superhero?
Yes. Superheroes don't appear outside of the superhero genre. If there is a superhero involved, then you're dealing with the superhero genre. NW is part of the medieval fantasy genre.
It has nothing to do with power level. Some of the characters in NW would certainly be more powerful than The Punisher, who is for all intents and purposes a regular guy with a lot of guns. However, he is a superhero, and even the strongest Great Weapon Fighter or the most powerful Control Wizard are not, unless they are specifically present within a setting that is of the superhero genre.
Superhero is a genre-based title, not a label of powerlevel.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Yes. Superheroes don't appear outside of the superhero genre. If there is a superhero involved, then you're dealing with the superhero genre. NW is part of the medieval fantasy genre.
It has nothing to do with power level. Some of the characters in NW would certainly be more powerful than The Punisher, who is for all intents and purposes a regular guy with a lot of guns. However, he is a superhero, and even the strongest Great Weapon Fighter or the most powerful Control Wizard are not, unless they are specifically present within a setting that is of the superhero genre.
Superhero is a genre-based title, not a label of powerlevel.
"Superhero" and "metahuman" are terms coined specifically for superhero genre
They are correct only when used for costumed adventurers depicted in a very specific kind of comic books and genre isnpired movies/cartoons/games/tv shows/whateverelse.
Everything else is just a heroic archetype. An old thing in culture, but with no corelations to superhero genre.
Well, except that one thing that comic book superheroes are modern popculture incarnation of heroic archetypes.
Achilles and Hector weren't considered superheroes within their setting. They were still described as heroes.
It tells a lot that the whole term "superhero" was made partially after name of the very first character of this genre.
I'm pretty sure if I showed up at a D&D convention dressed as Batman or Superman and openly declared it to be a 'superhero' convention, I'd get some stares and crude looks. You'd be silly to think otherwise.
Thor is a Superhero because he is written into a superhero universe. It is as simple as that. Superheroes are not defined by powers, but rather the universe they embody.
So, you can define it however you want. I don't care how you define anything, but just because you've decided the poop in your pants is chocolate doesn't mean I'm taking a bite.
I'm pretty sure if I showed up at a D&D convention dressed as Batman or Superman and openly declared it to be a 'superhero' convention, I'd get some stares and crude looks. You'd be silly to think otherwise.
Thor is a Superhero because he is written into a superhero universe. It is as simple as that. Superheroes are not defined by powers, but rather the universe they embody.
So, you can define it however you want. I don't care how you define anything, but just because you've decided the poop in your pants is chocolate doesn't mean I'm taking a bite.
You keep saying you don't care how i define it...but your actions say otherwise.
I'm not trying to make people believe my view.
At this point...I'm simply standing behind my own opinion against those who are saying it is wrong.
Thing is, this opinion isn't exactly mine. It's taken
from modern works about comic books culture and usually shared by comic book critics.
Your opinion may be right for you, but you are using this term in a wrong way, given it's definition.
I can call helicopter a plane, both are flying devices. I can even defend my opinion till the kingdom come.
It still will not make a helicopter into a plane.
I'm using the term correctly.
I hate doing this...especially when I shouldn't have to...but...
From dictionary.com:
"a hero, especially in children's comic books and television cartoons, possessing extraordinary, often magical powers"
From wikipedia:
"A superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of stock character possessing "extraordinary or superhuman powers" and dedicated to protecting the public."
Again...I'm not trying to make people believe in my opinion...I'm simply going against those who are saying my opinion is wrong and their opinion is right.
Actually, to me it just sounds like you're trying to sell fantasy as an equivalent to the Superhero setting. To a bunch of people who disagree with you.
But hey, go ahead and call it what you want. Just don't expect anyone to take it seriously. Your opinion is yours, and most likely that's as far as it will go. I'm just telling you how much water it's gonna hold in someone else's eyes.
Comments
Plus they'll just run the lairs with exploits and kick anyone who doesn't want to.
I was there for closed and open beta. Was there for about a month after launch. Once I saw they wanted an optional $60 for the next zone expansion I said no because I saw were this was going to go.
Pretty much my main beef with TERA; hate the "you must play this way" mentality that certain MMO communities have. Well that and the repetitive/dull endgame. Doesn't seem like NWO has much going for it....
This right there is one of the main turn offs for me. And one of the main reason I still love CO. No one here cares what you play. No one here cares if stats, dps, or what have you is in the top 1% of the server. You can play what you like, how you like and do well.
NW is toxic in this respect. You have to be the right class for the dungeon. You have to have the right build, and the right gear score. If you play it wrong, you are just a scrub and a waste of time. And only the elite get to decide what is right.
The game is fun, and I enjoy the look and feel of it. But the community, more then anything else, is probably going to eventually poison the game for me.
Um, there's no $60 expansion.
There's an expansion, and a themed $60 pack associated with it (which is ... pretty much useless unless you are hot and bothered about riding a unicorn).
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Yeah, it sucks when players ruin a game. This was one of my issues with NW, and practically my only issue with Tera.
It seems like there are a lot of people now with a "Get it over with" attitude towards their games. They're not really there to enjoy the content, they just want to do it the fastest, easiest way possible, so they can get their rewards and then go back to what they do when they're logged in but not actually playing. It's liike farming rewards in mmos is now just a part of some people's lives and they don't even consider it a fun game anymore, just another chore in their day they have to get out of the way.
One of the strengths of CO is that there's generally no reason to do this... of course, that doesn't stop people from doing it anyway!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
You should wish this community was as toxic...
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The Foundry community is a better, and it's STILL godawful.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I love the ones that call themselves "Authors" gives me a good giggle...BUT there is a lot of good peeps there also just more people = more morons.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I get a special giggle out of the few angry foundry authors. You know the ones, the bitter angry "I hate cryptic" "I hate this game" types. That feel their vision and genius are so powerful that they are doing the world and the game a favor by sharing it. And by forcing themselves to slave away at this horrific game to do so.
In most cases their foundry completely sucks or ends up broken. Simply because they cant bring themselves to actually play it.
The ranting complaints when they cant get plays or bad reviews are the best parts.
It's a huge amount of work doing even a half-decent foundry mission, stuff changes without notice, and Cryptic is categorically unwilling to deal with griefing, either through setting up a different ratings scheme or actually cracking down on bad behavior.
I don't expect them to do the manpower-intensive griefing analysis, but they've had 3 or so years of STO Foundry to see what happens when you let people mess with one another.
Pretty much all the issues and complaints in NW Foundry are retreads of arguments that happened in STO.
It's easy to be bitter and angry, and I've succumbed to it from time to time. Because you put 80 hours into designing a mission that does cool stuff and get a few dozen plays. 'Shove ogres off a cliff' missions that took maybe an hour to design get thousands of plays and top billing.
I mean, some of it is the inevitable 'it's the internet, stupid.' But some of it is some really really REALLY bad design decisions from Cryptic.
Or to recap:
There are legitimate reasons to be really ticked off about the foundry situation. (And it's something that gives me some pause about my hope of CO Foundry -- because we'd see those problems here)
Thing is, mix 'legitimate grievance' with 'usual gamers' and you get a recipe for some... dramasplotion.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
And I saw a few f2p MMO before.
You know you are exactly right.
You know what community surprised me? Allods Online. A lot of those people are helpful.
Keyword in my post was "optional" I know it's not a $60 zone expansion. It's just $60 for optional stuff like new races and that unicorn mount.
But to me, that's just crazy.
You'll sadly find this in most online games, yes even CO has these players. Just read zone chat, you'll hear someone whining about healers in alerts, low levels in alerts, someone not doing as much dps as they feel that person should be doing. But that is just the start, as has been commonly reported here on the forums there is also a section of players who go out of their way to get other players chat banned.
There really isn't much a company can do, especially one with a limited, or at the very least they seem to be very limited and quite unresponsive at times, in game GM presence. You can't really change people, you can only try to enforce some kind of COC. Failing to uphold a COC, evenly/'fairly', is likely to cause the players to believe that the inmates/player base runs the show.
In order for something like this to change, something drastic would have to happen on a global/society level. Which is very unlikely going to be achieved in an online game.
There are ways to enforce a COC, but most of them require more work then most companies are willing to do. It is usually easier to give players a way to ignore those who are breaking the coc or acting in a manner they find inappropriate.
The big thing though is to work with the community and making sure people know that GMs are actually active. A simple message in chat every now and then would be sufficiant for most, because much like when people see a police car while driving most people will see the GM and if the are misbehaving try to 'look good' to the GM
It's also questionable whether it even should. You can't give players choices, and then punish them for choosing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Oh, my bad, missed that!!
I like them having optional pricy unimportant stuff, because they can make their money without hitting _me_ up for stupid gate-like stuff.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I guess it's just how you look at it.
To me...all the characters are "superheroes" in NW.
The only difference is the setting.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
When we say superheroes, we mean superheroes. You're thinking of heroes.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm not sure what you're getting at.
All the characters in NW have superpowers...
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
So do you not consider Thor to be a superhero?
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
*checks google to make sure they caught that*
This argument. Allow me to grind it under my heel.
I don't care what you consider a 'superhero'. If they wouldn't fit in alongside the Justice League or the Avengers or some similarly diverse team of superheroes, they're heroes. They may be extraordinary heroes, but they are not by common definition 'superheroes'. By your logic I could also consider Dr. Who, Optimus Prime, and Luke Skywalker 'superheroes'. They are not. Please refrain from cheapening this definition, as it has lead to things like Sons of Anarchy at Comic-Con.
I posted a question...not an argument.
If you don't care what I consider a superhero...why did you feel the need to tell me to refrain from calling these characters superheroes?
My opinion on what I believe to be a superhero is my own.
If my opinion somehow cheapens your own opinion...then the problem is your own convictions.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
In my opinion, chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream is health food. The common usage of the term "health food", however, makes my personal opinion in this case wrong. If we allow "health food" to mean whatever everyone in their personal opinion thinks it should mean, then "health food" stops meaning anything.
The same holds true with the term "superheroes". If it just means whatever anyone wants it to, then you have to accept every possible definition. Do you want that? Because I will happily make you have to admit that Richard Simmons, Harry Potter, and the entire broadway cast of CATS are superheroes if you do.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I'm not sure why me considering the characters in NW to be superheroes made you go off on this "rant".
If a character such as Thor can be considered a superhero...then it is not a stretch for me to consider the characters in NW to be superheroes.
To me NW is the "Asgard" to CO's "Midgard".
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I'm not sure why you considered a reasonable explanation a "rant". Is it because it disagrees with what you believe?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Comparing my views of the NW PC characters to cookie dough...is far from a reasonable explaination.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I mean, yeah, power-level-wise, NW characters are on par with CO supers.
But that's like saying a motorboat is a plane. The power is flavored differently and has a different context.
If you are really into superheroes, NW is unlikely to scratch that itch.
Personally, I don't care much about superheroes, but I like really broad crazy flexible genre (like urban fantasy), and supers games hit that better than anything else.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I don't consider NW to be a "superhero" game...but I absolutely do view my character the same way I view Thor...and I do consider Thor to be a superhero.
In that sense...I don't believe it's a stretch to consider the PC characters in NW to be superheroes.
I don't think this view cheapens the definition of superhero at all...
...nor does it equate to calling cookie dough health food.
To each their own I guess.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Oh... is chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream offensive in your country? Here in America it's just ice cream.
You flip flopped so much in this post, you should run for president... and then drop out halfway through.
"I don't consider ice cream to be health food, but I absoloutely do view my chocolate chip cookie dough the same way I view a protein shake... and I do consider a protein shake to be health food.
In that sense...I don't believe it's a stretch at all to consider chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream to be health food.
I don't think this view cheapens the definition of health food at all...
...nor does it equate to calling fantasy genre characters superheroes."
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Where did I flip flop?
...are you saying that I have to view NW as a superhero game in order to view my character as a superhero?
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Interesting point of view, but that doesn't make Neverwinter characters "superheroes" in the eyes of the masses. Even in the D&D setting itself, the abilities used by the players aren't uncommon. Magic is practically everywhere, armor-clad men and women are a dime a dozen and the worship of boon-granting deities is part of everyday life. Hard to consider any of that Super when it's everywhere.
Thor = Superhero
[Because he's a GOD in the modern world, thus equal in power to a superhero such as Iron Man or Captain America]
NW Hero < Superhero
[Because he/she is NOT a god, nor equal to a superhero. ]
Now a high powered NW/Forgotten Realms character such as Elminster might be equal to ... say Dr Strange?
But yea, a lot of what makes a superhero is style. But power matters to, Thor is -not- equal to a typical NW toon so that basis of comparison isn't that great.
For example, our supergroup The Blackwatch Defenders has a "Thor" or sorts, Ares, former god of war.
He's a 'superhero' in comparison to both ordinary people of Earth and the Land of Legends [one of which, Olympus, his home].
Granted not all 'superheroes' are powerful, Black Widow of the Avengers or Oni of the Blackwatch are good examples of low powered 'supers' who still clearly aren't normal because of the genre
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Yes. Superheroes don't appear outside of the superhero genre. If there is a superhero involved, then you're dealing with the superhero genre. NW is part of the medieval fantasy genre.
It has nothing to do with power level. Some of the characters in NW would certainly be more powerful than The Punisher, who is for all intents and purposes a regular guy with a lot of guns. However, he is a superhero, and even the strongest Great Weapon Fighter or the most powerful Control Wizard are not, unless they are specifically present within a setting that is of the superhero genre.
Superhero is a genre-based title, not a label of powerlevel.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
That's just your opinion.
I have my own opinion on what makes a superhero.
So I will agree to disagree.
This is a "to each their own" topic.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
You have opinion what makes a hero.
"Superhero" and "metahuman" are terms coined specifically for superhero genre
They are correct only when used for costumed adventurers depicted in a very specific kind of comic books and genre isnpired movies/cartoons/games/tv shows/whateverelse.
Everything else is just a heroic archetype. An old thing in culture, but with no corelations to superhero genre.
Well, except that one thing that comic book superheroes are modern popculture incarnation of heroic archetypes.
Achilles and Hector weren't considered superheroes within their setting. They were still described as heroes.
It tells a lot that the whole term "superhero" was made partially after name of the very first character of this genre.
I'm pretty sure if I showed up at a D&D convention dressed as Batman or Superman and openly declared it to be a 'superhero' convention, I'd get some stares and crude looks. You'd be silly to think otherwise.
Thor is a Superhero because he is written into a superhero universe. It is as simple as that. Superheroes are not defined by powers, but rather the universe they embody.
So, you can define it however you want. I don't care how you define anything, but just because you've decided the poop in your pants is chocolate doesn't mean I'm taking a bite.
Again...that's just your opinion...and that's fine.
It certainly does not make my opinion wrong.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Thing is, this opinion isn't exactly mine. It's taken
from modern works about comic books culture and usually shared by comic book critics.
Your opinion may be right for you, but you are using this term in a wrong way, given it's definition.
I can call helicopter a plane, both are flying devices. I can even defend my opinion till the kingdom come.
It still will not make a helicopter into a plane.
You keep saying you don't care how i define it...but your actions say otherwise.
I'm not trying to make people believe my view.
At this point...I'm simply standing behind my own opinion against those who are saying it is wrong.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
I'm using the term correctly.
I hate doing this...especially when I shouldn't have to...but...
From dictionary.com:
"a hero, especially in children's comic books and television cartoons, possessing extraordinary, often magical powers"
From wikipedia:
"A superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of stock character possessing "extraordinary or superhuman powers" and dedicated to protecting the public."
Again...I'm not trying to make people believe in my opinion...I'm simply going against those who are saying my opinion is wrong and their opinion is right.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
But hey, go ahead and call it what you want. Just don't expect anyone to take it seriously. Your opinion is yours, and most likely that's as far as it will go. I'm just telling you how much water it's gonna hold in someone else's eyes.