That was pretty much my reaction when I saw the news too... ENOUGH WITH YOUR ******N VEHICLES! Stop trying to force them on us at every turn, and baiting me with a costume piece - which you can't even preview - is the lowest kind of tactic possible. Hey remember back in the day when there use to be sales on costume sets or travel powers and stuff? Now, those I always got excited for! They always motivated me into buying stuff I ordinarily would not have, and at the very least I could spend on the things that was of direct interest to me all the while making the most out of the C points I owned. Now, you seriously expect me to spend an astronomical amount of zen on a BS vehicle I absolutely don't give two craps about to get one miserable costume piece? G F Y.
I'm hardly surprise at this point, but that certainly won't stop me from calling them out on their BS tactics. One thing is for sure, it's becoming more and more difficult to justify my gold membership with every passing day.
A vehicle you can't visually customize: on sale for 960 Zen
A bundled helmet to protect your noodle while riding your vehicle: free
Sticking Cryptic with your character's emergency room bill and lawyer fees because CLOTH HELMET: priceless
Golden Avenger: "Remember kids, cloth helmets aren't suitable protection for your head in the event of a vehicle accident. Always use your seatbelt mods and defensive shields if you want to survive a vehicle accident." Newbton: "Gosh golly Golden Avenger, I wasn't aware of that. I guess I should go purchase those." Golden Avenger: "All according to plan." Newbton: "Huh?" Golden Avenger: "Awareness is half the fight! GO UNTIIIIIIIIIIIL!"
Its a bonus for those people who support Cryptic during the vehicle sale.
No one is forcing you to buy it, and there are plenty of other (better) looks in the same style
already in game.
I feel sorry for Cryptic having to deal with this community.
This is a pretty underhanded move Cryptic made. The helmet isn't even that worth getting. *sigh* I guess it is true that CO is slowly dying.
I can't believe they'd think this will attract buyers. I mean seriously wth.
__________________________________________________________________
Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
- - - - - -
Feel free to visit my websites!^^: DeviantART|FurAffinity| Twitter
Its a bonus for those people who support Cryptic during the vehicle sale.
No one is forcing you to buy it, and there are plenty of other (better) looks in the same style
already in game.
I feel sorry for Cryptic having to deal with this community.
Every community needs a special someone to keep the wheels turning.
Good thing you're here.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Its a bonus for those people who support Cryptic during the vehicle sale.
No one is forcing you to buy it, and there are plenty of other (better) looks in the same style
already in game.
I feel sorry for Cryptic having to deal with this community.
I am usually a big Cryptic supporter, but this is just so lousy.
And ya seriously, can the one guy in charge of making the freakin' costume pieces be anymore incompetent? 'Cause there's no other explanation for continuously releasing costumes that are either entirely broken, clipping like mad, available in one texture only (yeah, I'm sure gladiators fought wearing CLOTH helmet...), male/female discrepencies and so on. And the worst thing is, the chances of these things being ever fixed are next to nil. FANTASTIC quality work, glad to see my money being so well spent here.
I'd understand if they were continuously releasing massive amount of content, then sure a little f*ck up here and there is to be expected. But when you barely have any work at all and you f*ck every single time, over and over and over again, it's just inexcusable.
And you know what? A while ago I was playing another MMO *cough*SWTOR*cough* and they did a pretty big f*uck up over there too. Basically, they were gonna rewarded 'loyal' players that had reached the max level of 50 with a character with something (forgot what it was). Keep in mind this was unannounced reward so you couldn't, say, rush to lvl 50 to get it. A lot of long time players got pretty pissed at this when it was finally revealed because a lot of them, myself included, played many alts and took their time leveling and had yet to reach level 50. They were denied a 'loyalty' reward that, really, they were a lot more derserving then the guy who had subscribed 2 weeks prior and powerleveled to lvl 50. Know what they did? They acknowlegded the issue, apologized for the lack of consideration and corrected the problem by giving the veterans extra time to become eligible for the reward, all of that in a timely fashion.
Here, veterans are constantly served sh*t and all we can do is ask for another helping because that's all there is now and that's all that can ever be expected. This craptacular 'sales' is an example as such. That's how completely unimportant the playerbase is in the eye of the higher ups.
Its a bonus for those people who support Cryptic during the vehicle sale.
No one is forcing you to buy it, and there are plenty of other (better) looks in the same style
already in game.
I feel sorry for Cryptic having to deal with this community.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Its a bonus for those people who support Cryptic during the vehicle sale.
No one is forcing you to buy it, and there are plenty of other (better) looks in the same style
already in game.
I feel sorry for Cryptic having to deal with this community.
I don't get it either. Like I'm pretty sure nobody read my post on page 5 where I said the helmet is most likely going to be a costume drop from quest reward boxes like we had from the lemurian invasion. But nobody stops to think. Its like, if you don't stop to think with a clear head instead of channel anger all the time, nobody is going to understand what you're saying...I mean truly understand. It also doesn't stop them from patching in the material fixes later on in bug fixes....which....I'm pretty sure nobody here has even posted it up as a bug, or relayed the info etc. This is my first time hearing of it, so if I'm hearing it this late in the game, imagine how many people have actually passed the word forward to the devs?
We only have 1 part of the Malvan quest up right now, and the reward is the same as the first beginner/warm up quests from the lemurian invasion, where in case people forgot, the 3rd quest in the series pretty much gives you the entire lemurian costume set pieces. and they gave everyone that one helmet for free. Or at least I don't remember ever even doing anything to get it, I just got it.
Also the Lemurian Giant action figure tentacle dude was automatically given out when you did the last finale quest to beat the giant tentacle guy. Where you also received a box....that also had tons of items inside....including costume pieces.
What makes you guys think this event is going to roll any different? They never stated the helmet was exclusive. Its a bonus you get on top of the sale they have going on right now, which btw is pretty damn fat. 9 bucks or something for a perm vehicle, you guys must not play other mmo's where you can dump 20-40-100 dollars trying to get something, or have to pay just as much for something that only lasts 7 days? 30 days? And they threw in the helmet for free before anyone else gets a chance to unlock it on the later Malvan events.
This is some seriously idiotic crap. Cryptic. You need to fire people. I know times are tough and jobs are hard to come by, but the people you have are either incompetent or morons.
Possibly both. And I don't just mean this decision. This is based on a lot of things that have happened over the years with CO. This is just kind of a last straw kind of thing.
-Campaign: Spells and Coin
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
At least the Harajuku Twins was only $2 for two weapon skins, and not $10+ for a hat.
That and that helmet look has no relevance to the vehicles you buy. Now if the chariot was put up in the zen store that came with the helmet that would make sense...
I might get it if it has the words "S U C K E R" written on the forehead of the helm.
I'm still trying to figure out the mental process that decided this was a good idea.
Ever play Telephone? Pass a message between a bunch of people and see how badly it gets butchered by the time it's reached the last player. I've got a feeling that when TT passed along forum feedback of "we want more costumes in the cash shop", the one-person jump turned that into "we want costume parts bundled in with vehicles purchases, on a limited-time basis".
I hope that after years of trial and error, Cryptic finally realizes that they need to work to get money. Specially in this industry.
And i hope that our servers still work when they notice that, by the way. Because today at peak time we had 4 MC instances. Remember when we had over 16?
...I said the helmet is most likely going to be a costume drop from quest reward boxes like we had from the lemurian invasion.
Assumptions based on what info exactly? The lemurian costume pieces you're refering to were all recycled pieces easily acquirable from mob drops and/or recognition vendors... That's hardly comparable. The only unique pieces were the lemurian collar dropped in the Harbinger mission, and the free helmet given out by the npc.
We only have 1 part of the Malvan quest up right now, and the reward is the same as the first beginner/warm up quests from the lemurian invasion, where in case people forgot, the 3rd quest in the series pretty much gives you the entire lemurian costume set pieces.
It's clearly not going to roll out the same way as the lemurian invasion since we're dealing with entirely new costume pieces completely unavailable anywhere else. You have the pieces unique to the Malvan lockbox, then the pieces obtained from the racing daily (which, unlike the lemurian invasion quest, does NOT have a 100% droprate) then this lastest addition which, AS OF NOW, is only available when buying a vehicle from the z-store. And I highly doubt they'll make it available in the game anytime soon, otherwise what incentive would people have to buy from the z-store... Not only that, but if I were to buy this stupid bundle just to get the helmet and then a week later the damn thing was available for free in the game, how utterly pissed do you think I would be?
...which btw is pretty damn fat. 9 bucks or something for a perm vehicle
Except most people, myself included, absolutely don't care for vehicles at all, so the only reason for these people to justify purchasing one from the store would be to get the helmet. And I'm sorry, no single f*cking helmet is worth $9.20 or more. It's a very obvious and transparent ploy to force people to buy a rather expensive piece of junk that can't seem to sell otherwise because of the general distaste of vehicles. It was their mistake of assuming vehicles would sell like hot cakes and putting all their eggs in one basket (leaving the rest of the game in a complete state of disrepair) so now they're trying to recoup their losses all the while still trying to force vehicles down our throat. THAT's what upsetting people more than anything else. If the helmet was available for purchase by itself, we wouldn't even have this conversation. But no, instead we have YET another example of poor business practices from Cryptic/PWE. And, as others pointed out, dissatisfaction with the game and the company has been growing for a good while now, and, while we've been fairly forgiving/apologetic so far (for no good reason I might add), this certainly feels like the last straw.
And ya seriously, can the one guy in charge of making the freakin' costume pieces be anymore incompetent? 'Cause there's no other explanation for continuously releasing costumes that are either entirely broken, clipping like mad, available in one texture only (yeah, I'm sure gladiators fought wearing CLOTH helmet...), male/female discrepencies and so on.
Actually, there is a far better explanation, and it isn't the artist's fault.
Note: This is based of an explanation given by CoH's devs for similar phenomena, but I'll be surprised if it isn't true for most software.
There are, at any time, multiple builds of the game in internal development. At various stages of each project, the work gets inserted into one of these builds, so that it can be properly tested. You wouldn't expect the artist to fully complete the project, and THEN test it and discover that it doesn't work and they have to start over, would you?
So there's multiple builds out there with the project in different stages of completion. Publish date is looming, and there's no time to get final projects from everyone into a single build, so the Lead Producer picks a build that has all the stuff that needs to go live in it, even if one of those things is a costume part with only one texture and clipping errors, because it's Helmet 0.03beta, and the artist has Helmet 1.6 ready to go.
In a best case scenario, the next patch has the proper, finished item.
Even if you have proof that the artist isn't finishing his projects, it still probably isn't his fault; a dev that never meets their deadlines gets fired. A dev that is constantly told "That's good enough" and shuffled to the next project before they finish looks for a new job, or develops a drinking problem.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
...today at peak time we had 4 MC instances. Remember when we had over 16?
That was back when Aftershock had passed, Whiteout was on its way, Bloodmoon had useful purple gear added to loots with Tako costume pieces and Dark Aura.
This is some seriously idiotic crap. Cryptic. You need to fire people. I know times are tough and jobs are hard to come by, but the people you have are either incompetent or morons.
Possibly both. And I don't just mean this decision. This is based on a lot of things that have happened over the years with CO. This is just kind of a last straw kind of thing.
Fine, I know no one reads my posts, but I'll toss this out anyway.
Cryptic's management screwed up CO. Management chose to release the game early (probably under pressure to meet Atari-mandated deadlines), with some predictable results.
Cryptic's management chose to move developers to STO.
Cryptic's management chose to move few (if any?) developers back to CO once STO released.
Cryptic's management seems to have decided to use CO as training wheels for new / inexperienced hires before moving them on to STO / that other game.
Cryptic's management (and possibly its corporate overlords) decided to not reinvest heavily into CO (honestly, I probably wouldn't if it were my call).
From the tone of your post, it sounds like you're baggin' on the devs, and they are precisely the wrong target. They're doing the best they can under some ****ty conditions.
But, just to play devil's advocate (with myself?): what would the game be like if Cryptic sacked the current dev "team" (an overly grandiose term, surely)?
If Cryptic brought in new hires, development would grind to a halt. And who would train new hires? We'd be looking at months, and probably more, before the new hires could do much that wouldn't break things. Meanwhile, the people doing the training would be pulled off projects that actually do bring in money.
If Cryptic moved people from the other titles, I'm pretty sure the new dev team would be pissed. Going from a successful title (STO) or something new and shiny with lots of press (that thing with elves) to a game that's been in a death spiral for years? Yeah, I'd be over the moon.
No, in order to fix this game, we need Mr. Peabody's WABAC machine get back to 6 months before this game's release.
Has anyone tried taking the vehicle and trading it to others to see if the event of it going in your bag unlocks the helm?
From my experience, it is the act of purchasing that gives the Helmet.
When you purchase the vehicle, it simply gives you both the vehicle and the helmet.
I received my Helmet when I purchased a vehicle for a friend - however, they did not receive a Helmet upon receiving the vehicle.
Continued signs that the one employee that CO has left doesn't know what they're doing.
As this bug showed up AGAIN despite being told about it TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
Also, nice work Cryptic putting your 'too fast for the server' 'limited availability' Hawkwings back into the C-Store again. At least those are worth getting for the insane speed they offer.
Assumptions based on what info exactly? The lemurian costume pieces you're refering to were all recycled pieces easily acquirable from mob drops and/or recognition vendors... That's hardly comparable. The only unique pieces were the lemurian collar dropped in the Harbinger mission, and the free helmet given out by the npc.
The developers already stated in a previous news report that they were going to come out with more sequences like the lemurian invasion, where you have a plot lead up to the final boss etc. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Want a second opinion send a letter to cryptic and ask them if thats the intent for Melvan.
It's clearly not going to roll out the same way as the lemurian invasion since we're dealing with entirely new costume pieces completely unavailable anywhere else. You have the pieces unique to the Malvan lockbox, then the pieces obtained from the racing daily (which, unlike the lemurian invasion quest, does NOT have a 100% droprate) then this lastest addition which, AS OF NOW, is only available when buying a vehicle from the z-store. And I highly doubt they'll make it available in the game anytime soon, otherwise what incentive would people have to buy from the z-store... Not only that, but if I were to buy this stupid bundle just to get the helmet and then a week later the damn thing was available for free in the game, how utterly pissed do you think I would be?
The lemurian invasion pieces showed up through the last 2 series of the event over and over again, and no they weren't even 100% drop rate either, but you still got a chance to do them and get the reward regarless of if you give a damn about playing lemuria. Its clear as hell the helmet is just a BOOOOOONUUUUUUUUUSSSSS BONUS, BONUS, BO.....NUS. That means the emphasis of the sale is on the VEHICLES not the BONUS. You can doubt it all you want, but the guy doing these events now is easily readable. The sale most likely isn't going to last long enough to touch ends with the next malvan quest. Also if you bought a bundle "JUST TO GET A HELMET" thats on you for being stupid if you feel butthurt about spending 9 dollars on a helmet, (Thats like buying a 2million dollar car because you wanted the free balloons they had hanging from the window), instead of 9 dollars for a vehicle, which I emphasize again....the sale is for....VEHICLES!.
Except most people, myself included, absolutely don't care for vehicles at all, so the only reason for these people to justify purchasing one from the store would be to get the helmet. And I'm sorry, no single f*cking helmet is worth $9.20 or more. It's a very obvious and transparent ploy to force people to buy a rather expensive piece of junk that can't seem to sell otherwise because of the general distaste of vehicles. It was their mistake of assuming vehicles would sell like hot cakes and putting all their eggs in one basket (leaving the rest of the game in a complete state of disrepair) so now they're trying to recoup their losses all the while still trying to force vehicles down our throat. THAT's what upsetting people more than anything else. If the helmet was available for purchase by itself, we wouldn't even have this conversation. But no, instead we have YET another example of poor business practices from Cryptic/PWE. And, as others pointed out, dissatisfaction with the game and the company has been growing for a good while now, and, while we've been fairly forgiving/apologetic so far (for no good reason I might add), this certainly feels like the last straw.
If you don't want to buy a vehicle then dont buy it?
Aries, you're missing the underlying basis for all this nonsense: Cryptic is gonna make you buy these %#&@$ vehicles even if they have to shove them down your @&?%^ throat. Didn't you notice that in November, Champions Online became City of Hovertanks? Our one developer never got around to changing the banner graphic on the homepage.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Yes, the helmet is only meant as a bonus. Which means Cryptic is dramatically misreading and misunderstanding their audience -- which LOVES costumes, couldn't give a s* about vehicles, and is eager to have any new costume content they have.
It's like you're starving, and the only food in town is a complementary buffet with purchase of a VW.
The buffet isn't meant to cost thousands of dollars, sheesh! Offer the buffet separately? Don't be silly.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Aries, you're missing the underlying basis for all this nonsense: Cryptic is gonna make you buy these %#&@$ vehicles even if they have to shove them down your @&?%^ throat. Didn't you notice that in November, Champions Online became City of Hovertanks? Our one developer never got around to changing the banner graphic on the homepage.
On my, has cryptic taken your loved ones hostage?
How are they forcing you to buy anything otherwise?
About a week ago I was kinda feeling like I was missing Champs, like maybe I should resub for a month and play for a bit just for old time's sake, see if maybe the game felt a bit more fresh after being gone for almost half a year.
Then I get an email about this crap, come to check the forums to see what's up, and see this.
Yeah, no. I think I'll just go and rethink that idea.
Also, am I correct in thinking there's still been no Telepathy update? They've got time for more vehicle crap, but not to finish ironing out what is probably the worst set in the game? I knew not much was going to change in 5 or 6 months, but this is pathetic. Man do I regret ever dreaming of Batmobiles and Ride Armor.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
If you don't want to buy a vehicle then dont buy it?
Wow, take a chill pill man... And way to miss the point entirely. They keep shoving vehicles into the game when people don't care for them at all. What they DO care for is new costume sets, costume customization that's always been the main attraction of the game after all, but Cryptic/PWE has been stubbornly refusing to make new purchasable sets because all of their focus is set on vehicles, and vehicles only. So when they actually do have a new costume pieces, something everyone would be more than willing to pay for, they lock it away behind a craptastic vehicle nobody wants. Bonus or no, it's an a*sshole-ish thing to do. Zahinder made a good analogy with is buffet thing. And btw, when was the last time you saw a costume sales? Probably ages ago... It's a form of contempt toward the players, players that have been investing into the game in hopes of seeing more of what they like, but are constantly denied.
And btw, I didn't buy any vehicles and NEVER will, I utterly refuse to. No costume piece is good enough to lure me into giving Cryptic money so they can use it to take the game in a direction I highly despise.
I'm finding it incredibly surprising that people don't realize that they're not absolutely forcing you to do it. They're not shoving it down your throat. It's just an option, it's just there. It's not like it's actively trying to shove itself in your face, hoping that you'd buy it. No. It's an option. You're free to ignore it, plain as that.
I will agree that it's a jerk move, but this is exactly the sort of complaints I saw from people in TF2 when they first introduced the crates. It's just amazing how an option is such a foreign concept to people.
I will agree that it's a jerk move, but this is exactly the sort of complaints I saw from people in TF2 when they first introduced the crates. It's just amazing how an option is such a foreign concept to people.
Oh, it's not foreign to people at all. No, people realize this plenty, and that's why they complain. They don't intend to buy this crap, and as such they get irritated when that's all they see produced while the parent company and/or development team appears clueless or even uncaring as to why their game is failing to attract the positive attention, and by extension money, they had hoped for. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can easily see what results that will have in the long run, and the possibilities vary between bad and worse.
What does seem foreign to the Cryptic/PWE Cheerleader squad on the other hand, is that the alternative to people sticking around and complaining is leaving the game, which results in the game they brainlessly defend with such fervor withering on the vine. Oh, no, people don't have to buy this crap at all, no sir. They also don't have to buy anything period if they don't like what's being produced, and given industry trends at the moment the results of that would... Well, it'd look a bit like where City of Heroes currently is, wouldn't it?
Take a stroll down the 80s and consider what happened when things got so bad for the industry as a whole that everyone stopped buying. I think you'll find that it's not as simple as "if you don't like it, don't buy it." Well, unless you like watching things crash and burn.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
I'm finding it incredibly surprising that people don't realize that they're not absolutely forcing you to do it. They're not shoving it down your throat. It's just an option, it's just there. It's not like it's actively trying to shove itself in your face, hoping that you'd buy it. No. It's an option. You're free to ignore it, plain as that.
I will agree that it's a jerk move, but this is exactly the sort of complaints I saw from people in TF2 when they first introduced the crates. It's just amazing how an option is such a foreign concept to people.
The problem is that it's sprung on people who aren't expecting it. I can honestly say that I never expected costume pieces which used to cost a few bucks dangled behind a $10 purchase. It might be a bit different if it was a specific vehicle that was themed to the event, and it came with head-to-toe themed costume pieces. But it's one costume piece behind a steep (for some) purchase.
When we all first started playing the game, there were a couple ways to get costumes. By playing, or buying them directly from the C Store. Costumes are a big thing to this game, so setting a standard on how you get them is no small thing. When they introduced lockboxes, of course people flew off the handle. The things they want to buy from the store for a few bucks are now locked in blind grab bags, and you can potentially end up spending way more than you wanted to.
Now on top of that, they'll "give away" more costume pieces behind stuff that some people don't even want?
The ways to get costume pieces are going farther and farther away from the standard that was set, and they're becoming worse and worse.
Now on top of that, they'll "give away" more costume pieces behind stuff that some people don't even want?
The ways to get costume pieces are going farther and farther away from the standard that was set, and they're becoming worse and worse.
Can you imagine what's next?
This is something that the adamant defenders simply do not get at all.
Whatever happened to releasing full costume packs? Do PWE / Cryptic think that those won't sell any longer? It seems that they're more interested in milking as much money as they can out of the playerbase than actually giving a worthwhile product that the playerbase can look forward to buy, by either expecting them to spend lots of money gambling for new costume pieces or locking them behind the most expensive non-costume products.
I'm finding it incredibly surprising that people don't realize that they're not absolutely forcing you to do it. They're not shoving it down your throat. It's just an option, it's just there. It's not like it's actively trying to shove itself in your face, hoping that you'd buy it. No. It's an option. You're free to ignore it, plain as that.
I will agree that it's a jerk move, but this is exactly the sort of complaints I saw from people in TF2 when they first introduced the crates. It's just amazing how an option is such a foreign concept to people.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I was just about to buy one because i thought there was no option.
I may have to stop throwing money on them now that i know theres an option not to.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Oh, it's not foreign to people at all. No, people realize this plenty, and that's why they complain. They don't intend to buy this crap, and as such they get irritated when that's all they see produced while the parent company and/or development team appears clueless or even uncaring as to why their game is failing to attract the positive attention, and by extension money, they had hoped for. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can easily see what results that will have in the long run, and the possibilities vary between bad and worse.
What does seem foreign to the Cryptic/PWE Cheerleader squad on the other hand, is that the alternative to people sticking around and complaining is leaving the game, which results in the game they brainlessly defend with such fervor withering on the vine. Oh, no, people don't have to buy this crap at all, no sir. They also don't have to buy anything period if they don't like what's being produced, and given industry trends at the moment the results of that would... Well, it'd look a bit like where City of Heroes currently is, wouldn't it?
Take a stroll down the 80s and consider what happened when things got so bad for the industry as a whole that everyone stopped buying. I think you'll find that it's not as simple as "if you don't like it, don't buy it." Well, unless you like watching things crash and burn.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how you do a strawman argument.
The problem is that it's sprung on people who aren't expecting it. I can honestly say that I never expected costume pieces which used to cost a few bucks dangled behind a $10 purchase. It might be a bit different if it was a specific vehicle that was themed to the event, and it came with head-to-toe themed costume pieces. But it's one costume piece behind a steep (for some) purchase.
When we all first started playing the game, there were a couple ways to get costumes. By playing, or buying them directly from the C Store. Costumes are a big thing to this game, so setting a standard on how you get them is no small thing. When they introduced lockboxes, of course people flew off the handle. The things they want to buy from the store for a few bucks are now locked in blind grab bags, and you can potentially end up spending way more than you wanted to.
Now on top of that, they'll "give away" more costume pieces behind stuff that some people don't even want?
The ways to get costume pieces are going farther and farther away from the standard that was set, and they're becoming worse and worse.
Can you imagine what's next?
Like I said, it's a jerk move. I won't deny that or support the idea that this should be continued. I'm just saying there is the option to opt out. By contributing to the sales of said vehicle and bundled costume piece, you're giving them the idea that this is the way you want it and this is how it should be.
Like I said, it's a jerk move. I won't deny that or support the idea that this should be continued. I'm just saying there is the option to opt out. By contributing to the sales of said vehicle and bundled costume piece, you're giving them the idea that this is the way you want it and this is how it should be.
^ True, whilst I find it odd that they'd attatch a costume piece to a vehicle during a sale, there is as has been said before an option to not buy in.
I'm sure if they realise that sales do not go up with this sort of selling they'll stop it. Makes logical sense to me.
I havent read entire thread but I'm pretty sure thats sound reasoning right there from Kem.
I'd prefer if they made costume sets again however.
Also, am I correct in thinking there's still been no Telepathy update? They've got time for more vehicle crap, but not to finish ironing out what is probably the worst set in the game? I knew not much was going to change in 5 or 6 months, but this is pathetic. Man do I regret ever dreaming of Batmobiles and Ride Armor.
Yes, the helmet is only meant as a bonus. Which means Cryptic is dramatically misreading and misunderstanding their audience -- which LOVES costumes, couldn't give a s* about vehicles, and is eager to have any new costume content they have.
It's like you're starving, and the only food in town is a complementary buffet with purchase of a VW.
The buffet isn't meant to cost thousands of dollars, sheesh! Offer the buffet separately? Don't be silly.
Yeah but 99% of the crying is devoted assumptions. <===that is assumptions without even analyzing previous events where something similar happened.
And no the only food in town isn't a complementary buffet....unless you've bought all the costumes in the game you have no reason to QQ. And even then if you have bought all the costumes in the game if you do QQ you also fail to notice the amount of freely released costume pieces they keep putting out with every event.
You have no reason to get mad. Don't want to get the costume piece as a bonus for the sale? Then don't, wait like the rest of us for it to be released as a drop on the later part of events. Or as a full set with a 5 dollar charge attached.
Don't assume the worst all the time. They could have put freeform slots on sale for 15 dollars and put the helmet as a bonus with them, and you people would still ***** and moan without noticing.....OH SNAP FF SLOT...15 DOLLARS! They could have put the 1 piece 1 PIECE helmet as a bonus for buying any costume sets on sale for 100zen each in the Cstore, and you still would have bitched about "Oh well I'm not gonna participate in it because they don't have the full costume set with the helmet blah blah, without considering, OH **** FULL COSTUME SETS ON SALE FOR 1 DOLLAR!
The point is, its 1 costume piece.....its not a full set, and it only comes in cloth (aka it still needs to be patched in a later build but they're releasing it early now.) To think that it wont come across your way again (most likely for free) is saddening to see someones mental state in. Show me an "Exclusive" costume in champions online. Show me 1 costume in the game that you only get 1 chance to get, ever and thats it and its not tradeable. I'll wait.
I'm just not sure what's supposed to be so great about the Helm of Dicks here. Unless they come out with a Cape of Dicks, so I can make Dickman (whose nemesis of course is Wil Wheaton), I just can't see any need for such an ugly helmet. Giving it away free with a Vehicle is tantamount to saying, "We know nobody's going to pay for this thing, but we want to feel like we're selling you something anyway."
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Don't assume the worst all the time. They could have put freeform slots on sale for 15 dollars and put the helmet as a bonus with them, and you people would still ***** and moan without noticing.....OH SNAP FF SLOT...15 DOLLARS! They could have put the 1 piece 1 PIECE helmet as a bonus for buying any costume sets on sale for 100zen each in the Cstore, and you still would have bitched about "Oh well I'm not gonna participate in it because they don't have the full costume set with the helmet blah blah, without considering, OH **** FULL COSTUME SETS ON SALE FOR 1 DOLLAR!
I'm just not sure what's supposed to be so great about the Helm of Dicks here. Unless they come out with a Cape of Dicks, so I can make Dickman (whose nemesis of course is Wil Wheaton), I just can't see any need for such an ugly helmet. Giving it away free with a Vehicle is tantamount to saying, "We know nobody's going to pay for this thing, but we want to feel like we're selling you something anyway."
You could make... The Amazing Vibrator!
... Yeah, I'm kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. Being an altoholic tends to do that.
Comments
I'm hardly surprise at this point, but that certainly won't stop me from calling them out on their BS tactics. One thing is for sure, it's becoming more and more difficult to justify my gold membership with every passing day.
A bundled helmet to protect your noodle while riding your vehicle: free
Sticking Cryptic with your character's emergency room bill and lawyer fees because CLOTH HELMET: priceless
Golden Avenger: "Remember kids, cloth helmets aren't suitable protection for your head in the event of a vehicle accident. Always use your seatbelt mods and defensive shields if you want to survive a vehicle accident."
Newbton: "Gosh golly Golden Avenger, I wasn't aware of that. I guess I should go purchase those."
Golden Avenger: "All according to plan."
Newbton: "Huh?"
Golden Avenger: "Awareness is half the fight! GO UNTIIIIIIIIIIIL!"
Its a bonus for those people who support Cryptic during the vehicle sale.
No one is forcing you to buy it, and there are plenty of other (better) looks in the same style
already in game.
I feel sorry for Cryptic having to deal with this community.
I can't believe they'd think this will attract buyers. I mean seriously wth.
__________________________________________________________________
Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
- - - - - -
Feel free to visit my websites!^^:
DeviantART|FurAffinity|
Twitter
Every community needs a special someone to keep the wheels turning.
Good thing you're here.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I am usually a big Cryptic supporter, but this is just so lousy.
Alas.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I'd understand if they were continuously releasing massive amount of content, then sure a little f*ck up here and there is to be expected. But when you barely have any work at all and you f*ck every single time, over and over and over again, it's just inexcusable.
And you know what? A while ago I was playing another MMO *cough*SWTOR*cough* and they did a pretty big f*uck up over there too. Basically, they were gonna rewarded 'loyal' players that had reached the max level of 50 with a character with something (forgot what it was). Keep in mind this was unannounced reward so you couldn't, say, rush to lvl 50 to get it. A lot of long time players got pretty pissed at this when it was finally revealed because a lot of them, myself included, played many alts and took their time leveling and had yet to reach level 50. They were denied a 'loyalty' reward that, really, they were a lot more derserving then the guy who had subscribed 2 weeks prior and powerleveled to lvl 50. Know what they did? They acknowlegded the issue, apologized for the lack of consideration and corrected the problem by giving the veterans extra time to become eligible for the reward, all of that in a timely fashion.
Here, veterans are constantly served sh*t and all we can do is ask for another helping because that's all there is now and that's all that can ever be expected. This craptacular 'sales' is an example as such. That's how completely unimportant the playerbase is in the eye of the higher ups.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I don't get it either. Like I'm pretty sure nobody read my post on page 5 where I said the helmet is most likely going to be a costume drop from quest reward boxes like we had from the lemurian invasion. But nobody stops to think. Its like, if you don't stop to think with a clear head instead of channel anger all the time, nobody is going to understand what you're saying...I mean truly understand. It also doesn't stop them from patching in the material fixes later on in bug fixes....which....I'm pretty sure nobody here has even posted it up as a bug, or relayed the info etc. This is my first time hearing of it, so if I'm hearing it this late in the game, imagine how many people have actually passed the word forward to the devs?
We only have 1 part of the Malvan quest up right now, and the reward is the same as the first beginner/warm up quests from the lemurian invasion, where in case people forgot, the 3rd quest in the series pretty much gives you the entire lemurian costume set pieces. and they gave everyone that one helmet for free. Or at least I don't remember ever even doing anything to get it, I just got it.
Also the Lemurian Giant action figure tentacle dude was automatically given out when you did the last finale quest to beat the giant tentacle guy. Where you also received a box....that also had tons of items inside....including costume pieces.
What makes you guys think this event is going to roll any different? They never stated the helmet was exclusive. Its a bonus you get on top of the sale they have going on right now, which btw is pretty damn fat. 9 bucks or something for a perm vehicle, you guys must not play other mmo's where you can dump 20-40-100 dollars trying to get something, or have to pay just as much for something that only lasts 7 days? 30 days? And they threw in the helmet for free before anyone else gets a chance to unlock it on the later Malvan events.
Stop hurting yourselves.
You can't seriously expect those with experience dealing with Cryptic to assume they will do sensible and easy things.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Possibly both. And I don't just mean this decision. This is based on a lot of things that have happened over the years with CO. This is just kind of a last straw kind of thing.
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
That and that helmet look has no relevance to the vehicles you buy. Now if the chariot was put up in the zen store that came with the helmet that would make sense...
I might get it if it has the words "S U C K E R" written on the forehead of the helm.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Ever play Telephone? Pass a message between a bunch of people and see how badly it gets butchered by the time it's reached the last player. I've got a feeling that when TT passed along forum feedback of "we want more costumes in the cash shop", the one-person jump turned that into "we want costume parts bundled in with vehicles purchases, on a limited-time basis".
And i hope that our servers still work when they notice that, by the way. Because today at peak time we had 4 MC instances. Remember when we had over 16?
Assumptions based on what info exactly? The lemurian costume pieces you're refering to were all recycled pieces easily acquirable from mob drops and/or recognition vendors... That's hardly comparable. The only unique pieces were the lemurian collar dropped in the Harbinger mission, and the free helmet given out by the npc.
It's clearly not going to roll out the same way as the lemurian invasion since we're dealing with entirely new costume pieces completely unavailable anywhere else. You have the pieces unique to the Malvan lockbox, then the pieces obtained from the racing daily (which, unlike the lemurian invasion quest, does NOT have a 100% droprate) then this lastest addition which, AS OF NOW, is only available when buying a vehicle from the z-store. And I highly doubt they'll make it available in the game anytime soon, otherwise what incentive would people have to buy from the z-store... Not only that, but if I were to buy this stupid bundle just to get the helmet and then a week later the damn thing was available for free in the game, how utterly pissed do you think I would be?
Except most people, myself included, absolutely don't care for vehicles at all, so the only reason for these people to justify purchasing one from the store would be to get the helmet. And I'm sorry, no single f*cking helmet is worth $9.20 or more. It's a very obvious and transparent ploy to force people to buy a rather expensive piece of junk that can't seem to sell otherwise because of the general distaste of vehicles. It was their mistake of assuming vehicles would sell like hot cakes and putting all their eggs in one basket (leaving the rest of the game in a complete state of disrepair) so now they're trying to recoup their losses all the while still trying to force vehicles down our throat. THAT's what upsetting people more than anything else. If the helmet was available for purchase by itself, we wouldn't even have this conversation. But no, instead we have YET another example of poor business practices from Cryptic/PWE. And, as others pointed out, dissatisfaction with the game and the company has been growing for a good while now, and, while we've been fairly forgiving/apologetic so far (for no good reason I might add), this certainly feels like the last straw.
It was one of the prototypes though. So, got a hat, and something insanely fast that I wanted too.
My choice, wee. Although still would have preferred costume pack.
Deliciously nutritious!
Actually, there is a far better explanation, and it isn't the artist's fault.
Note: This is based of an explanation given by CoH's devs for similar phenomena, but I'll be surprised if it isn't true for most software.
There are, at any time, multiple builds of the game in internal development. At various stages of each project, the work gets inserted into one of these builds, so that it can be properly tested. You wouldn't expect the artist to fully complete the project, and THEN test it and discover that it doesn't work and they have to start over, would you?
So there's multiple builds out there with the project in different stages of completion. Publish date is looming, and there's no time to get final projects from everyone into a single build, so the Lead Producer picks a build that has all the stuff that needs to go live in it, even if one of those things is a costume part with only one texture and clipping errors, because it's Helmet 0.03beta, and the artist has Helmet 1.6 ready to go.
In a best case scenario, the next patch has the proper, finished item.
Even if you have proof that the artist isn't finishing his projects, it still probably isn't his fault; a dev that never meets their deadlines gets fired. A dev that is constantly told "That's good enough" and shuffled to the next project before they finish looks for a new job, or develops a drinking problem.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
That was back when Aftershock had passed, Whiteout was on its way, Bloodmoon had useful purple gear added to loots with Tako costume pieces and Dark Aura.
And they say that comics were not successful.
Fine, I know no one reads my posts, but I'll toss this out anyway.
Cryptic's management screwed up CO. Management chose to release the game early (probably under pressure to meet Atari-mandated deadlines), with some predictable results.
Cryptic's management chose to move developers to STO.
Cryptic's management chose to move few (if any?) developers back to CO once STO released.
Cryptic's management seems to have decided to use CO as training wheels for new / inexperienced hires before moving them on to STO / that other game.
Cryptic's management (and possibly its corporate overlords) decided to not reinvest heavily into CO (honestly, I probably wouldn't if it were my call).
From the tone of your post, it sounds like you're baggin' on the devs, and they are precisely the wrong target. They're doing the best they can under some ****ty conditions.
But, just to play devil's advocate (with myself?): what would the game be like if Cryptic sacked the current dev "team" (an overly grandiose term, surely)?
If Cryptic brought in new hires, development would grind to a halt. And who would train new hires? We'd be looking at months, and probably more, before the new hires could do much that wouldn't break things. Meanwhile, the people doing the training would be pulled off projects that actually do bring in money.
If Cryptic moved people from the other titles, I'm pretty sure the new dev team would be pissed. Going from a successful title (STO) or something new and shiny with lots of press (that thing with elves) to a game that's been in a death spiral for years? Yeah, I'd be over the moon.
No, in order to fix this game, we need Mr. Peabody's WABAC machine get back to 6 months before this game's release.
And if evil is hiding in a cave somewhere, park your vehicle with all of its high-tech weaponry at the front door.
Conveniently leaving that part out Cryptic?
From my experience, it is the act of purchasing that gives the Helmet.
When you purchase the vehicle, it simply gives you both the vehicle and the helmet.
I received my Helmet when I purchased a vehicle for a friend - however, they did not receive a Helmet upon receiving the vehicle.
Continued signs that the one employee that CO has left doesn't know what they're doing.
As this bug showed up AGAIN despite being told about it TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
Also, nice work Cryptic putting your 'too fast for the server' 'limited availability' Hawkwings back into the C-Store again. At least those are worth getting for the insane speed they offer.
Razira's Primus Database Page
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
wtf, theres no trade restriction on it?
If you don't want to buy a vehicle then dont buy it?
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Yes, the helmet is only meant as a bonus. Which means Cryptic is dramatically misreading and misunderstanding their audience -- which LOVES costumes, couldn't give a s* about vehicles, and is eager to have any new costume content they have.
It's like you're starving, and the only food in town is a complementary buffet with purchase of a VW.
The buffet isn't meant to cost thousands of dollars, sheesh! Offer the buffet separately? Don't be silly.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
On my, has cryptic taken your loved ones hostage?
How are they forcing you to buy anything otherwise?
Like my man Aries said, it's a bonus.
About a week ago I was kinda feeling like I was missing Champs, like maybe I should resub for a month and play for a bit just for old time's sake, see if maybe the game felt a bit more fresh after being gone for almost half a year.
Then I get an email about this crap, come to check the forums to see what's up, and see this.
Yeah, no. I think I'll just go and rethink that idea.
Also, am I correct in thinking there's still been no Telepathy update? They've got time for more vehicle crap, but not to finish ironing out what is probably the worst set in the game? I knew not much was going to change in 5 or 6 months, but this is pathetic. Man do I regret ever dreaming of Batmobiles and Ride Armor.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Wow, take a chill pill man... And way to miss the point entirely. They keep shoving vehicles into the game when people don't care for them at all. What they DO care for is new costume sets, costume customization that's always been the main attraction of the game after all, but Cryptic/PWE has been stubbornly refusing to make new purchasable sets because all of their focus is set on vehicles, and vehicles only. So when they actually do have a new costume pieces, something everyone would be more than willing to pay for, they lock it away behind a craptastic vehicle nobody wants. Bonus or no, it's an a*sshole-ish thing to do. Zahinder made a good analogy with is buffet thing. And btw, when was the last time you saw a costume sales? Probably ages ago... It's a form of contempt toward the players, players that have been investing into the game in hopes of seeing more of what they like, but are constantly denied.
And btw, I didn't buy any vehicles and NEVER will, I utterly refuse to. No costume piece is good enough to lure me into giving Cryptic money so they can use it to take the game in a direction I highly despise.
I will agree that it's a jerk move, but this is exactly the sort of complaints I saw from people in TF2 when they first introduced the crates. It's just amazing how an option is such a foreign concept to people.
Oh, it's not foreign to people at all. No, people realize this plenty, and that's why they complain. They don't intend to buy this crap, and as such they get irritated when that's all they see produced while the parent company and/or development team appears clueless or even uncaring as to why their game is failing to attract the positive attention, and by extension money, they had hoped for. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can easily see what results that will have in the long run, and the possibilities vary between bad and worse.
What does seem foreign to the Cryptic/PWE Cheerleader squad on the other hand, is that the alternative to people sticking around and complaining is leaving the game, which results in the game they brainlessly defend with such fervor withering on the vine. Oh, no, people don't have to buy this crap at all, no sir. They also don't have to buy anything period if they don't like what's being produced, and given industry trends at the moment the results of that would... Well, it'd look a bit like where City of Heroes currently is, wouldn't it?
Take a stroll down the 80s and consider what happened when things got so bad for the industry as a whole that everyone stopped buying. I think you'll find that it's not as simple as "if you don't like it, don't buy it." Well, unless you like watching things crash and burn.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
The problem is that it's sprung on people who aren't expecting it. I can honestly say that I never expected costume pieces which used to cost a few bucks dangled behind a $10 purchase. It might be a bit different if it was a specific vehicle that was themed to the event, and it came with head-to-toe themed costume pieces. But it's one costume piece behind a steep (for some) purchase.
When we all first started playing the game, there were a couple ways to get costumes. By playing, or buying them directly from the C Store. Costumes are a big thing to this game, so setting a standard on how you get them is no small thing. When they introduced lockboxes, of course people flew off the handle. The things they want to buy from the store for a few bucks are now locked in blind grab bags, and you can potentially end up spending way more than you wanted to.
Now on top of that, they'll "give away" more costume pieces behind stuff that some people don't even want?
The ways to get costume pieces are going farther and farther away from the standard that was set, and they're becoming worse and worse.
Can you imagine what's next?
This is something that the adamant defenders simply do not get at all.
Whatever happened to releasing full costume packs? Do PWE / Cryptic think that those won't sell any longer? It seems that they're more interested in milking as much money as they can out of the playerbase than actually giving a worthwhile product that the playerbase can look forward to buy, by either expecting them to spend lots of money gambling for new costume pieces or locking them behind the most expensive non-costume products.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I was just about to buy one because i thought there was no option.
I may have to stop throwing money on them now that i know theres an option not to.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how you do a strawman argument.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Like I said, it's a jerk move. I won't deny that or support the idea that this should be continued. I'm just saying there is the option to opt out. By contributing to the sales of said vehicle and bundled costume piece, you're giving them the idea that this is the way you want it and this is how it should be.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how you perpetrate an age old fallacy.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
^ True, whilst I find it odd that they'd attatch a costume piece to a vehicle during a sale, there is as has been said before an option to not buy in.
I'm sure if they realise that sales do not go up with this sort of selling they'll stop it. Makes logical sense to me.
I havent read entire thread but I'm pretty sure thats sound reasoning right there from Kem.
I'd prefer if they made costume sets again however.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
__________________________
Telepathy: On Hold
Yeah but 99% of the crying is devoted assumptions. <===that is assumptions without even analyzing previous events where something similar happened.
And no the only food in town isn't a complementary buffet....unless you've bought all the costumes in the game you have no reason to QQ. And even then if you have bought all the costumes in the game if you do QQ you also fail to notice the amount of freely released costume pieces they keep putting out with every event.
You have no reason to get mad. Don't want to get the costume piece as a bonus for the sale? Then don't, wait like the rest of us for it to be released as a drop on the later part of events. Or as a full set with a 5 dollar charge attached.
Don't assume the worst all the time. They could have put freeform slots on sale for 15 dollars and put the helmet as a bonus with them, and you people would still ***** and moan without noticing.....OH SNAP FF SLOT...15 DOLLARS! They could have put the 1 piece 1 PIECE helmet as a bonus for buying any costume sets on sale for 100zen each in the Cstore, and you still would have bitched about "Oh well I'm not gonna participate in it because they don't have the full costume set with the helmet blah blah, without considering, OH **** FULL COSTUME SETS ON SALE FOR 1 DOLLAR!
The point is, its 1 costume piece.....its not a full set, and it only comes in cloth (aka it still needs to be patched in a later build but they're releasing it early now.) To think that it wont come across your way again (most likely for free) is saddening to see someones mental state in. Show me an "Exclusive" costume in champions online. Show me 1 costume in the game that you only get 1 chance to get, ever and thats it and its not tradeable. I'll wait.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
You could make... The Amazing Vibrator!
... Yeah, I'm kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. Being an altoholic tends to do that.