Religious Bigotry - A Note of Protest

deej54 · April 2013

I wish to protest what appears to me to be Champions Online practicing religious bigotry against Jews and Christians. Religious bigotry is a charge that I do not make lightly. Rather than just drop a flaming post, and then leaving, common decency demands that I provide an explanation of how I came to this conclusion. Trusting that you will forgive the extended nature of this post, that explanation is included below. I also ask your understanding when it becomes obvious that I do not normally post to the forums.

I am a City of Heroes refugee. I recently joined CO. After a couple of weeks at the Free-to-Play SILVER level, I found CO sufficiently interesting that I upgraded my account to paying GOLD level. I then attempted to recreate some of my CoH toons within CO. I discovered that I could not put a red cross emblem on my medic, ?Triage.? I could depict my medic as a member of the Red Crescent Society, but not as a member of the Red Cross, nor the Red Shield of David Society.

I soon discovered that in the emblems section, of the character creation process, I could not find any emblems which reflect Judeo-Christian faith and traditions. I easily found the symbols of other significant belief systems. The Sikh Khanda and the Islamic Crescent, as well symbols representing other religions are available. There is no shortage of symbols representing dark or demonic forces. There are even symbols that would be suitable to represent atheistic philosophies. Although I believe that I searched thoroughly, I could not find a single cross, crucifix, ichthus (sign of the fisherman), Star of David, or menorah.

The final shock was in the Flag Emblem section. There are over 50 national flags available to use as emblems. The Israeli flag is conspicuous by it's absence.

I wish to stress that I have absolutely no objection to the presence of symbols that do not reflect my personal beliefs and philosophies. I do not even object to symbols that represent beliefs and philosophies that I oppose, such as the Communist Hammer and Sickle. What I do object to is the deliberate exclusion of the symbols that reflect my beliefs and philosophies, or those of my friends and allies.

I have absolutely no doubt that these exclusions are deliberate. Religion is a significant aspect of this game. During the character creation process, CO includes Divinity as an Innate Characteristic. I support that concept. Divine inspiration is the source of many heroic tales throughout human history. The problem is that only some religions are allowed to portray that inspiration ? other religions are excluded. Some person had to make the choice as to which religions are acceptable, and which are not.

Furthermore, battling a fallen angel named Therakiel is a major campaign, in levels that I have not yet reached. Based on the picture I saw on the wiki, Therakiel's Temple, in Vibora Bay, appears to be a Christian church, complete with crosses in the stained glass windows and on the steeple. This is perfectly legitimate. Great evil has occurred within houses of worship of all faiths. CO does not seem to be reluctant to use the symbols of my faith, on a place corrupted by evil. I have no objection to that, until they choose to refuse me the right to use those same symbols in the cause of good.

In the Real World, I have flown into battle alongside Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and atheists. I would like to be able to join an equally diverse group during in-game conflicts. I call on Champions Online to make that possible. Make available the symbols for all faiths. Even throw in a Flying Spaghetti Monster symbol, for those who have all the answers.

I call on the staff of Champions Online to reexamine the choices that they have made. When your prejudices are so great that a medic can not wear the red cross or red shield, you have chosen poorly. When you choose to exclude the flag of the heroes of the Entebbe Raid, the greatest hostage rescue mission in history, you have chosen poorly. That is just purely sorry. That is bigotry, and it is wrong.

Sincerely,
Uncle Deej

smoochan · April 2013

Im sure ive seen a medic character with crosses on his shoulders.

I'm in the costume editor now... and oh look, one of the emblems is Medic Cross. Available both on the insignia pauldron, and the insgnia emblem on the chest.

So um... instead of writing that essay on how champions is opresssing you...2 extra minutes of perusing the costume options would have solved your problem.

There are a lot of flags that aren't available in the game... I don't think it's meant as a message of hatred and intolerance towards all the countries and organizations you can't paint onto your costume.

Good luck getting them to put in additional costume options. The rest of us haven't had much luck lately, and we asked nicely.

bioshrike · April 2013

There IS a cross emblem you can use.

There are no specific religious symbols so to speak... there is a crescent moon, but it's not the one specific to various faiths - it's just a crescent moon.

There are a lot of country's flags missing, not just Israel's. As far as *why* certain flags are missing, I couldn't say. IIRC, those that are included are European and North/Central/South American, (someone more knowledgeable than I would know).

Regarding Therakiel, he is a creature that basically stepped aside during the war between heaven and hell. He and his minions chose to inhabit that particular church in Vibora Bay, but it wasn't evil or anything prior to their forcibly taking it over.

You'll also find that much of the evil/dark forces that are portrayed have more of a Lovecraftian bent to them, than that traditionally portrayed in Judeo-Christian works, (in fact, I believe there *is* another "Hell dimension" mentioned during a mission arc in downtown Millennium City, where you close a tear). Either way, you do fight some traditional demon-type creatures, but they are different than the whole Edom thing, (again, AFAIK).

I think you are reading too much into this...

fudgemonsta · April 2013

...Just to throw this out there, the cross is labeled 'Medic Cross'.

flyingfinn · April 2013

Labeling thread topic as 'Religious Bigotry' when talking about a video game makes you sound that you take things a bit too serious.
Oh, the 'Hammer and Sickle' thread....yup.

forutnefire · April 2013

Political correctness is a dangerous thing folks.

"...calling all Smackwells! This is police chief Surhoff! We got a situation!"

atompenguin · April 2013

Really guy?

...really?

kojirohellfire · April 2013

im-not-always-at-a-loss-for-words-but-this-time-i-am-speechless.jpg

sigmaseven0 · April 2013

I haven't looked at the eula, but somehow i thought that it was against the rules to make religious figures in the costume creator.

jonsills · April 2013

sigmaseven0 wrote: »

I haven't looked at the eula, but somehow i thought that it was against the rules to make religious figures in the costume creator.

Only specific religious figures. You can't make Jesus, or Moses, or Mohammed; they'd probably frown on the Buddha, even though the Buddha would be the first to deny his divinity.

You're not supposed to make specific historical figures, either. Then again, the only ones I've seen have been Abraham Lincoln (as a Heavy Weapons kind of guy, wielding a giant axe) and Mad Anthony Wayne...

But yeah. The crescent available in the Creator is not the Islamic crescent (which would be narrower, and embracing a star); there is a medic-style cross, not a Christian cross; there's no Mogen David. The closest to "religious symbols" you're going to find in there is a symbol vaguely similar to the druidic Triple Spiral, and another that looks like it may have been inspired by a Sikh symbol.

You're not being "oppressed" because you can't remake your favorite religious figure in this game, or even someone who's visibly championing your favorite religion; whether you realize it or not, you're being respected. Your faith is supposed to be too serious and important to be put in something so essentially frivolous as an MMO.

forutnefire · April 2013

jonsills wrote: »

You're not being "oppressed" because you can't remake your favorite religious figure in this game, or even someone who's visibly championing your favorite religion; whether you realize it or not, you're being respected. Your faith is supposed to be too serious and important to be put in something so essentially frivolous as an MMO.

Posting it again, for good measure.

chalupaoffury · April 2013

If you have to represent your faith every time you touch a thing, you're taking it too seriously. I'm Christian too. Try screwing around with halos and wings instead of lamenting the lack of a cross. As with many of my peers in this religion, I feel like you should stop feeling oppressed and start just having fun with what you're given. If you're trying to tell me you can't build an amazing Gabriel or Michael with the tools provided? I'm gonna call BS.

bluhman · April 2013

Here, have some inspiration.

rianfrost · April 2013

not getting too into the topic, but bluh, that is pretty good. since my main is a catholic priest(and a serious one, not one for cheap jokes) i could make that pretty easily, even have the collar. I wouldn't get too hung up on it, co has about as much overt stuff as coh did, you just have to be creative. still miss my Celtic 3 cross though.

savagedeacon · April 2013

deej54 wrote: »

I wish to protest what appears to me to be Champions Online practicing religious bigotry against Jews and Christians. Religious bigotry is a charge that I do not make lightly. Rather than just drop a flaming post, and then leaving, common decency demands that I provide an explanation of how I came to this conclusion. Trusting that you will forgive the extended nature of this post, that explanation is included below. I also ask your understanding when it becomes obvious that I do not normally post to the forums.

I am a City of Heroes refugee. I recently joined CO. After a couple of weeks at the Free-to-Play SILVER level, I found CO sufficiently interesting that I upgraded my account to paying GOLD level. I then attempted to recreate some of my CoH toons within CO. I discovered that I could not put a red cross emblem on my medic, ?Triage.? I could depict my medic as a member of the Red Crescent Society, but not as a member of the Red Cross, nor the Red Shield of David Society.

I soon discovered that in the emblems section, of the character creation process, I could not find any emblems which reflect Judeo-Christian faith and traditions. I easily found the symbols of other significant belief systems. The Sikh Khanda and the Islamic Crescent, as well symbols representing other religions are available. There is no shortage of symbols representing dark or demonic forces. There are even symbols that would be suitable to represent atheistic philosophies. Although I believe that I searched thoroughly, I could not find a single cross, crucifix, ichthus (sign of the fisherman), Star of David, or menorah.

I fear that you don't understand what game you are playing.
This is a superhero game, the gods here don't wear a cross or a star of David they wear a big red S or a bat. And the very first of such heroes , the one that started it all was created by two Jews that liked him best with an S on the chest and not a star of david. Another Jew a guy named Stanley Martin Lieber ( he is better known like Stan Lee) has created a whole superhero universe and lo and behold the best known god in that universe brandish an hammer and not a menorah.
Those guys did understand what a superhero universe was and wisely decided to avoid that a hero had too close ties with a contemporary worshiped divinity because they were trying to entertain everyone not to offend someone that could held his own religious beliefs sacred.
Or do you believe that the Ghost Rider was created to champion the satanist belief?
I am a Christian and a few days ago, while playing CO, I ran into a radiant that was dressed like the founder of one of the two religions that you claiim CO discriminates and called himself something like "the savior". Now I am not a zealot but my thoughts were: "why they don't leave these things alone? It is a game for <that radiant name> sake."
If you cannot find symbols of the two religions that you quote is not because they are discriminated it is because they are respected and they want to avoid that someone can make fun of them wearing them in a game that is all about punching the villains in next week.
How you would have felt if you had strong religious beliefs and you saw that radiant to pvp against another player, let us say a scourge, that manged to beat the living lights out of him?

nepht · April 2013

They dont have any Jedi symbols CRYPTIC ARE BIGOTS \o/

LOLOLOL its a comic book MMO it has nothing to do with religion the symbols you see in the game are there only cause the devs think they look cool.

Now to derail this trainwreck heres a picture of the worlds dumbest pigeon.

210008,xcitefun-1.jpg

roughbearmattach · April 2013

As others said,

* there are various cross and star symbols in game
* the game includes flags that would likely represent the most common players or villains
* it is easy to make overtly Biblical characters will the range of costumes available

Oh, and it is a video game about superheroes . . . often goofy, silly superheroes.

sekimen · April 2013

Just don't touch my hammer and sickle, yo.

cybersoldier1981 · April 2013

One of my nemesis toons was Xenu. I even had a nemesis called Madame Jihad... that wore the canisters as a suicide vest... so... I might be a jerk, too.

Then again, I also made the Bed Intruder.

nepht · April 2013

Would also like to point out that the Therakiel battle the OP banged on about was most likely going to be this guy ......

Back in the day when Champions Online was actually Marvel Universe Online. So to be honest that mission really doesn't have any religious meaning to it. Therakiel was just pasted over him when Microsoft pulled out and the Marvel IP license was lost.

ariesmajor · April 2013

deej54 wrote: »

I wish to protest what appears to me to be Champions Online practicing religious bigotry against Jews and Christians. Religious bigotry is a charge that I do not make lightly. Rather than just drop a flaming post, and then leaving, common decency demands that I provide an explanation of how I came to this conclusion. Trusting that you will forgive the extended nature of this post, that explanation is included below. I also ask your understanding when it becomes obvious that I do not normally post to the forums.

I am a City of Heroes refugee. I recently joined CO. After a couple of weeks at the Free-to-Play SILVER level, I found CO sufficiently interesting that I upgraded my account to paying GOLD level. I then attempted to recreate some of my CoH toons within CO. I discovered that I could not put a red cross emblem on my medic, ?Triage.? I could depict my medic as a member of the Red Crescent Society, but not as a member of the Red Cross, nor the Red Shield of David Society.

I soon discovered that in the emblems section, of the character creation process, I could not find any emblems which reflect Judeo-Christian faith and traditions. I easily found the symbols of other significant belief systems. The Sikh Khanda and the Islamic Crescent, as well symbols representing other religions are available. There is no shortage of symbols representing dark or demonic forces. There are even symbols that would be suitable to represent atheistic philosophies. Although I believe that I searched thoroughly, I could not find a single cross, crucifix, ichthus (sign of the fisherman), Star of David, or menorah.

The final shock was in the Flag Emblem section. There are over 50 national flags available to use as emblems. The Israeli flag is conspicuous by it's absence.

I wish to stress that I have absolutely no objection to the presence of symbols that do not reflect my personal beliefs and philosophies. I do not even object to symbols that represent beliefs and philosophies that I oppose, such as the Communist Hammer and Sickle. What I do object to is the deliberate exclusion of the symbols that reflect my beliefs and philosophies, or those of my friends and allies.

I have absolutely no doubt that these exclusions are deliberate. Religion is a significant aspect of this game. During the character creation process, CO includes Divinity as an Innate Characteristic. I support that concept. Divine inspiration is the source of many heroic tales throughout human history. The problem is that only some religions are allowed to portray that inspiration ? other religions are excluded. Some person had to make the choice as to which religions are acceptable, and which are not.

Furthermore, battling a fallen angel named Therakiel is a major campaign, in levels that I have not yet reached. Based on the picture I saw on the wiki, Therakiel's Temple, in Vibora Bay, appears to be a Christian church, complete with crosses in the stained glass windows and on the steeple. This is perfectly legitimate. Great evil has occurred within houses of worship of all faiths. CO does not seem to be reluctant to use the symbols of my faith, on a place corrupted by evil. I have no objection to that, until they choose to refuse me the right to use those same symbols in the cause of good.

In the Real World, I have flown into battle alongside Catholics, Jews, Muslims, and atheists. I would like to be able to join an equally diverse group during in-game conflicts. I call on Champions Online to make that possible. Make available the symbols for all faiths. Even throw in a Flying Spaghetti Monster symbol, for those who have all the answers.

I call on the staff of Champions Online to reexamine the choices that they have made. When your prejudices are so great that a medic can not wear the red cross or red shield, you have chosen poorly. When you choose to exclude the flag of the heroes of the Entebbe Raid, the greatest hostage rescue mission in history, you have chosen poorly. That is just purely sorry. That is bigotry, and it is wrong.

Sincerely,
Uncle Deej

Lemme uhh, help you with that foot, its ok I sometimes get em caught in my mouth too, happens to the best of us, you'll be fine.

battybattybats · April 2013

jonsills wrote: »

they'd probably frown on the Buddha, even though the Buddha would be the first to deny his divinity.

Here's some Bhuddist humour for the Bhuddists playing CO.

If you meet Bhuddha in Champions Online you should totally PvP and pwn him

(Reference is the Bhuddist saying: "If you meet Bhuddha on the road you should kill him." Anyone who finds that weird might find the notions behind it quite fascinating. Disclaimer: I am not personally a Bhuddist, i just know several including a scholarly authority on Bhuddism)

themightyzenith · April 2013

I'd just like to chip in and and say THANK YOU CRYPTIC!!! Us dark satanists are more than adequately catered for in the costume creator with an over-abundance of evil, horned, spiky,
demonic costume pieces and symbols.

........What? This is a superhero game? Well whaddya know

savagedeacon · April 2013

battybattybats wrote: »

Here's some Bhuddist humour for the Bhuddists playing CO.

If you meet Bhuddha in Champions Online you should totally PvP and pwn him

(Reference is the Bhuddist saying: "If you meet Bhuddha on the road you should kill him." Anyone who finds that weird might find the notions behind it quite fascinating. Disclaimer: I am not personally a Bhuddist, i just know several including a scholarly authority on Bhuddism)

The Buddha that you would meet on the road of your life and you should kill is the Buddha that lives in yourself or better your desire to become a Buddha, just like Siddhārtha Gautama, the first Buddha did to get the enlightement. And are you sure that you could win a pvp with the real Buddha ? He has won a demon called Mara , you know?

kiyoko4 · April 2013

The only religious bigotry I see in Champions are Christian-only super-groups.

Those are bigots.

I definitely don't want religious images of any kind or creed in the game please.

baroness1980 · April 2013

This topic has opened my eyes...

We the faithful (and delicious) followers of his noodliness are also being discriminated! There is no FSM symbol anywhere to be found!!

* Yes... this is tongue in cheek in case some of you take it too seriously -.- Also... please stop crying discrimination and prosecution when you hold the majority position.

seanwmcginnis · April 2013

baroness1980 wrote: »

* Yes... this is tongue in cheek in case some of you take it too seriously -.- Also... please stop crying discrimination and prosecution when you hold the majority position.

You clearly have not heard about the "War on Christmas". Thanks, Cryptic, for the "Holiday Event" -- I was running around for hours like an idiot, opening presents, only to discover that I couldn't actually unlock a yarmulke costume piece. But, of course, there are turbans and fezzes in the game.

Then my supergroup and I decided to stage a nativity in the Ren Cen, only to discover that we couldn't have a baby jesus, because we can't make babies in the costume creator. Do you know what that is, Cryptic? Ageism!

Ow...I think I fell into a sarchasm.

towershield · April 2013

The OP's post is well composed and doesn't come off as a rage-fueled wall o' text that typically accompanies the average complain thread these days. However, that doesn't make his request any less nonsensical. Witchcraft may be a Champion in this game but I don't see her having any connection to my religion outside of her hero name association; I'd prefer it stay that way.

iamroxstar · April 2013

Deej, this has actually been brought up many times in the past. There are some workarounds but I too asked for Cross symbols long ago with no success. Calling Cryptic bigots is probably not going to help your cause though. Remember that as Christians we are to be loving...not name callers.

That said. I agree with you. There is a lack of religious symbols which I think should be included. And they should all be included.

Lastly...Halos are not biblical. We do not become angels. Most angels don't have wings.

zahinder · April 2013

They might not be Biblical, but they are religious...

And you could be playing an angel working visibly rather than a human with holy power. At one point I had a Devastator who was Nike, angel of Victory, with Greek style dress, halo, wings. Not a Christian angel, exactly (though I believe Nike informed the modern perception of angels)

iamroxstar · April 2013

zahinder wrote: »

They might not be Biblical, but they are religious...

And you could be playing an angel working visibly rather than a human with holy power. At one point I had a Devastator who was Nike, angel of Victory, with Greek style dress, halo, wings. Not a Christian angel, exactly (though I believe Nike informed the modern perception of angels)

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-halos.html

It might have been made into a Christian symbol (which I don't agree with) but it certainly wasn't started that way. Much like Christmas and Easter it was most associated to pagans.

jayleia1 · April 2013

jonsills wrote: »

You're not being "oppressed" because you can't remake your favorite religious figure in this game, or even someone who's visibly championing your favorite religion; whether you realize it or not, you're being respected. Your faith is supposed to be too serious and important to be put in something so essentially frivolous as an MMO.

Normally I disagree with almost everything you say. This is not one of those times. At this time, I agree with everything you say and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

keikomyst · April 2013

When you start placing religious imagery in a game, you step into extremely dangerous territory where people get just as offended, if not more so, that this cape wearing superhero who bears a cross on his chest and is role-played out as a Christian good Samaritan is making a mockery of our religion! Among other silly things that people get offended over.

I'm not for or against including religion-inspired costume bits, but I do fear possible backlash.

edit: Or worse yet, our son made a Satanist anthropomorphic demonic duck and his Nemesis is basically our pastor in tights! BAN THIS GAME FOREVER! and MY CHILD IS BEING EXPOSED TO BUDDHIST AND ISLAMIC IMAGERY BAN THIS GAME NOW!

I only speak from experience. Extremists suck.

iamroxstar · April 2013

keikomyst wrote: »

edit: Or worse yet, our son made a Satanist anthropomorphic demonic duck and his Nemesis is basically our pastor in tights! BAN THIS GAME FOREVER! and MY CHILD IS BEING EXPOSED TO BUDDHIST AND ISLAMIC IMAGERY BAN THIS GAME NOW!

I'd chalk that up to bad parenting...not bad gaming.

themightyzenith · April 2013

iamroxstar wrote: »

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-halos.html

It might have been made into a Christian symbol (which I don't agree with) but it certainly wasn't started that way. Much like Christmas and Easter it was most associated to pagans.

Christianity adopted the vast majority of it's symbols, stories and imagery from prior religions.
You will be assimilated!

iamroxstar · April 2013

themightyzenith wrote: »

Christianity adopted the vast majority of it's symbols, stories and imagery from prior religions.
You will be assimilated!

Pfffttt!

I'll stick with what the Word says thanks.

vorshoth · April 2013

rianfrost wrote: »

not getting too into the topic, but bluh, that is pretty good. since my main is a catholic priest(and a serious one, not one for cheap jokes) i could make that pretty easily, even have the collar. I wouldn't get too hung up on it, co has about as much overt stuff as coh did, you just have to be creative. still miss my Celtic 3 cross though.

Out of curiosity, how did you do the tiny white collar thing they have (I assume that's what you mean by the collar)? I couldn't find an appropriate costume piece when I was considering making a "vicar-guy who one day got superpowers" character back when I first started playing, aaages ago.

zahinder · April 2013

iamroxstar wrote: »

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-halos.html

It might have been made into a Christian symbol (which I don't agree with) but it certainly wasn't started that way. Much like Christmas and Easter it was most associated to pagans.

Well, sure, a lot of Christian symbols have pagan roots, that doesn't keep them from effectively being considered Christian symbols now.

pion01 · April 2013

bluhman wrote: »

Here, have some inspiration.

Dude, wow, that's amazing....

iamroxstar · April 2013

zahinder wrote: »

Well, sure, a lot of Christian symbols have pagan roots, that doesn't keep them from effectively being considered Christian symbols now.

I believe those would in turn be called idols...:rolleyes: I do not conform to society. I know where my foundation comes from.

themightyzenith · April 2013

iamroxstar wrote: »

I believe those would in turn be called idols...:rolleyes: I do not conform to society. I know where my foundation comes from.

.......uh...em...nevermind.

sagewithbubbles · April 2013

iamroxstar wrote: »

I'd chalk that up to bad parenting...not bad gaming.

It is.

Problem is, those "bad parents" and the demagogues that speak for them are a very loud and very influential group.

Who have nothing better to do than to try and get someone they don't like sued/legislated/banned into oblivion.

cryptickalidor · April 2013

You can totally make a KKK uniform in the game though.

Just saying!

themightyzenith · April 2013

sagewithbubbles wrote: »

It is.

Problem is, those "bad parents" and the demagogues that speak for them are a very loud and very influential group.

Who have nothing better to do than to try and get someone they don't like sued/legislated/banned into oblivion.

Hmmm...I don't quite follow your line of reasoning here. Who are these demagogues you are speaking of and who are they sueing?

coir · April 2013

Seriously...

I mean with all the crap that we got going on in the world ranging from natural disasters to wars to people living in abject poverty to horrific crimes within our societies to simple tragedies a family faces when they lose a loved one this is what you decide to rail against!

/headdesk.

towershield · April 2013

coir wrote: »

Seriously...

I mean with all the crap that we got going on in the world ranging from natural disasters to wars to people living in abject poverty to horrific crimes within our societies to simple tragedies a family faces when they lose a loved one this is what you decide to rail against!

/headdesk.

With all the crap we got going on in the world blah blah blah you decide to rail against the OP's choice of topic?

/facepalm

At least the original complaint was somewhat game related.

iceih03 · April 2013

deej54 wrote: »

The final shock was in the Flag Emblem section. There are over 50 national flags available to use as emblems. The Israeli flag is conspicuous by it's absence.

/support!!!!!! there is no Argentinian flag and when we have a pope.

Now seriously:
I do not know how they chose the flags, a lot are missing, I thought that they chose 1rt world and some east countries to reflect their main customer base nationalities, but later i found Chile's flag, I can not find a reason to include one and not the other when both are brother countries separated just by a bunch of mountains. It is specially weird when they added Bolas power, a weapon which's origin is in that southamerican zone where now Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and south of Brasil are.

Beside the jokes, I have never felt discriminated for that nor I will, we must understand that a videogame is limited and not everycountry from real world can be included.

About religious, I m not a lore expert not a theologist, but I do not think that those 3 religions exists in the lore, I think they should be merged into 1 with no distinctions, the 3 have a common root and have been separated because of faith reasons. Considering that: in a world where you interact with the divinities just ask them if Jesus is a real god a prophet or a citizen, with that knowledge the biggest faith differences will be broken and the 3 should be one. Possible the church in Vibora Bay is not a catholic church but a building for this unique religion. If I right which I do not know

PD: I'm an Argentinian catholic who does not believe in religions and doubts about god's existence.

iamroxstar · April 2013

iceih03 wrote: »

About religious, I m not a lore expert not a theologist, but I do not think that those 3 religions exists in the lore...

PD: I'm an Argentinian catholic who does not believe in religions and doubts about god's existence.

1st question: How are you a catholic if you don't believe?

2nd: Religion is definitely in the lore of comics

Mr. Christian
Redemption
Bibleman
Revelation
DesertWind

Not to mention my own creation, Purple Psychic.

iceih03 · April 2013

iamroxstar wrote: »

1st question: How are you a catholic if you don't believe?

Grammar error, I should have typed "was", I m not catholic any longer.

iamroxstar wrote: »

2nd: Religion is definitely in the lore of comics

Mr. Christian
Redemption
Bibleman
Revelation
DesertWind

Not to mention my own creation, Purple Psychic.

I was not talking about comics in general but in Champions. Besides it is not about removing those 3 religions but merging them.

sagewithbubbles · April 2013

themightyzenith wrote: »

Hmmm...I don't quite follow your line of reasoning here. Who are these demagogues you are speaking of and who are they sueing?

I was thinking of people like this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(activist)

Or any of the pastors that tried to get DnD banned back in the 70s/80s for being "non-Christian" or "Satanist".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_controversies

Most of the immediate examples that spring to mind are local/anecdotal though (disclaimer: I live in the Southern US)

Basically, any politician who feels they can get easy votes by representing something they don't like as "anti-Christian" or "discriminatory against Christians" and calling to ban it.

Or lawyers who will file suits against game companies for being discriminatory against *insert religion here*.

Even failed lawsuits/bills are bad, because they enhance the siege mentality people have.

meedacthunist · April 2013

iceih03 wrote: »

About religious, I m not a lore expert not a theologist, but I do not think that those 3 religions exists in the lore, I think they should be merged into 1 with no distinctions, the 3 have a common root and have been separated because of faith reasons. Considering that: in a world where you interact with the divinities just ask them if Jesus is a real god a prophet or a citizen, with that knowledge the biggest faith differences will be broken and the 3 should be one. Possible the church in Vibora Bay is not a catholic church but a building for this unique religion. If I right which I do not know
.

Champions Universe lore is basically a modern Earth with superpowers and living legends added. All nations and faith present in real world are existing somewhere in Champions Universe. Of course Christanity, Judaism, Islam and Buddhism do exist in Champions universe. Just like they are existing in real world.
Same goes for all real world nations and organisations.

As for why certain flags are presen, while others are not... I suppose because list wasn't really finished? Just like many parts of the game.

Truth be told, it's not like any faith is really discriminated in CO - costume creator doesn't contain any religious symbols.

Religious Bigotry - A Note of Protest

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