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Snake Wildlife's Freeform Guide - Ultimate Tanking (PvE)
honestresearcher
Posts: 657 Arc User
Do you want to Solo a Shadow Collossus? (or many!)
Do you want to be the Backbone of your team? (if youre a species that has one!)
Do you want to make a promise that you will never die? (i promise...i will never die)
Look no further than my basic guide to Ultimate Tanking in PVE, fit for any freeform player wether youre new here or old.
Gear required is super cheap and you don't need to be a pro. This guide is for everyone, especially useful towards new players or those getting started who dont want to fall to Gravitar or Alerts ever again, if youre just having bad luck then i hope this guide is useful to you.
The guide leaves many power choices up to you, experimentation is key! There are many ways to tank, this guide will give you a build that works in 2 roles:
Hybrid role:: Large threat generation - You will always have aggro.
Tank role:: Super extra health - Solo the game.
whilst still giving you free range of what you want to be!
Please enjoy this video, i go through things step by step, and show you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uilQCWG7giY
Do you want to be the Backbone of your team? (if youre a species that has one!)
Do you want to make a promise that you will never die? (i promise...i will never die)
Look no further than my basic guide to Ultimate Tanking in PVE, fit for any freeform player wether youre new here or old.
Gear required is super cheap and you don't need to be a pro. This guide is for everyone, especially useful towards new players or those getting started who dont want to fall to Gravitar or Alerts ever again, if youre just having bad luck then i hope this guide is useful to you.
The guide leaves many power choices up to you, experimentation is key! There are many ways to tank, this guide will give you a build that works in 2 roles:
Hybrid role:: Large threat generation - You will always have aggro.
Tank role:: Super extra health - Solo the game.
whilst still giving you free range of what you want to be!
Please enjoy this video, i go through things step by step, and show you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uilQCWG7giY
Post edited by honestresearcher on
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Comments
Keep up the good work
I would just love to hear you elaborate on your reasoning for this one.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
It's the same as DPS, if i have to use Ice Sheath for a boost of damage, that to me means my initial DPS is in need of improvement. I'd only take Ice Sheath on a Spike-Damage build like a Sniper or TK Lancer.
If my build is working good enough...why do i need a "HELP IM DIEING!" button?
Thats how i feel about it, iv avoided such powers.
Obviously this is different if youre a PvP'er, but this is purely PvE and active defenses as iv seen in my years of experience...is a power, and some build potential, wasted due to inconfidence or not enough initial defense on the character, and many more reasons.
Believe me iv done everything in the game FAR TOO MANY TIMES, 3 Shadow Collossus at once without a Active Defense? I say it's possible, and i show you its possible. I'd never say something without showing you.
DPS will always need improvement. There is no such concept as "enough dps". The active offense/defense skills are supposed to be some forms of "ultimates" if you think about it. Powerful skills that are considered game breaking if maintained on a very consistent level.
Now in my experience in tanking, it always comes down to one solid factor: Gear.
You can have a solid build sure, but gear will always be the definite factor in determining the raw performance of the build.
The active off/def skills are boosts. Using them on a build that is already smoothed to near "perfection" would only compliment it more.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
A dont see a temporary boost as a permanent boost to my character.
Perfect example:
Id skip Ice Sheath to pick Fire Snake ANYDAY!
If i can tank 3 Shadow Collossus on blue and green primaries with rank 3-5 mods...surely have i not proved a point?
You can tank anything with Devour Essence.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
You can tank anything with Ego Weaponry, Ego Sprites, Fissure, Summon Shadows, Holdout Shot, Conviction, BCR+ad, Circle of Primal Dominion, Devour Essence, Life Drain and many more!
That's pricesely what i suggest in the guide for Ultimate Tanking, to pick powers which heal yourself. DE is probably the best choice for beginners.
I have a bad case of Arthritis so i cant be tapping Ego Weaponry like i just got a hand transplant
I shall now take my foot out of my mouth.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
Basic Guide for Ultimate Tanking in PVE, fit for any player new or old.
Of course, there is no such thing as a perfect tank without x5 Eruption and Huge Int for God Mode.
If you rely on an active defense to solely save from death, then your build IS saying something. For REGULAR content, emphasis on regular, active defenses are not needed. I find that I use then only in Gravitar and when solo'n lairs on elite, like Therakiel's temple. And even then I pop them on casually.
On the other hand, due to diminishing returns on folks stacking heroic/legion gear, I found that Active Offenses don't add much to overall dps. For those folks that pop active offenses and add a HUGE bonus to your DPS, then your gear/stats aren't optimal. Imo, the way to pick active offenses is by their advantages, like Nimble Mind for example. A better example is a build that uses perma active offenses, like a INT/rec/end FC spammer, which uses Imbue and Lock n Load to increase Crit Chance.
Anyways, I like the format of this guide. Mind if I copy your style?!
Light Star Alliance (my toons with build guides & videos)
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Nature Powerset
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@Man.of.Light
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Dont misunderstand me, I use them, but don't RELY on them.
Light Star Alliance (my toons with build guides & videos)
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Nature Powerset
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@Man.of.Light
Don't feel so bad, apprently mine are the suxoros as well. Cause I do so love my active defence.
Light Star Alliance (my toons with build guides & videos)
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Nature Powerset
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@Man.of.Light
That's what the guide is for
Go nuts, come up with your own combo's, so long as you include Challenging Strikes and Crippling Challenge, aggro should be yours the entire time, then after a tonne of defensive increases you can pretty much slot whatever powers you like.
Iv done the same with a Lazer Sword Build, even though Lazer Sword is kinda weak, iv used it to prove a few points. You DONT need Devour Essence at all.
dmg=aggro
healing=aggro
devour essense has both
anything that ticks as fast as 0.5s or a click CC like shred, viper's fangs(a fav of mine due to the adv) will usually be enough... unless you run into some gas pallets freak :rolleyes:
My build directory (work in progress)
Guide list
Freeform Builds
In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
Mhmm, that's why another fav build of mine rolls Ego Blades, Ego weaponry gives back a tonne of health especially if you pump up your crit chances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gud0YLJzcRQ
Light Star Alliance (my toons with build guides & videos)
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Nature Powerset
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@Man.of.Light
*ignores the telios pheromones guy and the fact you didn't have aggro most of the time* nice tanking!
My build directory (work in progress)
Guide list
Freeform Builds
In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
meant the format
Light Star Alliance (my toons with build guides & videos)
................................................
Nature Powerset
................................................
@Man.of.Light
Well I did say "Pseudo" tanking...
Besides, IIRC, that pheremones dude died quick
Light Star Alliance (my toons with build guides & videos)
................................................
Nature Powerset
................................................
@Man.of.Light
My build directory (work in progress)
Guide list
Freeform Builds
In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
Aint much to fill, but more to inform.
This isnt exactly a BUILD, its a HOW TO MAKE A BUILD, showing what you need to include, which is in text at 11:37 in a summary of important pointers.
Active offenses are a bit more important for tanks in my opinion. More damage means more threat. However, just like with ADs, it really depends on the build and what you'd need to give up for that AO.
Active Offenses like Ego Surge w/Nimble Mind? I dunno why any tank would skip this amazing power. Helps you heal too BTW. And breaking holds?
Snake, very nice video, great effort and contribution to the community. Spot on for Circle of Primal Dominion for non STR heroes.
That said, I would not recommend building a tank with 90% of your "important" recommendations. There are plenty of alternatives to Ebon Void, Defiance, Conviction, BCR that maintain survivability but massively increase DPS. And that is needed because there are plenty of DPS role heroes who can hold agg from these type of tank builds.
Spending time blocking (to build up Ebon Void stacks), using powers to heal, debuff your damage (BCR) - all decreases your DPS to a huge extent.
Regeneration addresses healing with a number of advantages: 1) you never have to waste time activating it, 2) it uses no energy, 3) works while blocking (enough to never die from a Gravitar barrage while solo). I think of Regeneration as a very offensive defensive passive. Defiance can be thought of the same way if you have serious energy issues (i.e. Laser Sword.) (Necrullitic Elixir plus Defiance might be better than Regeneration.)
And I would say Warden/Vindicator more than make up for the 10% HP from Bulwark and Damage Resistance in Sentry while gaining an important 25% critical severity and 6% crit rate.
In those cases...those builds are putting out too much DPS than any other normal player, and they can generally look after themselves when theyre using quite clearly 'out of the norm' multi-stacking Devices Cryptic really shouldnt have let us do -.-
If you drop 90% of those Offensive/debuff recommendations, you will not be able to reduce a Collossus' damage near enough.
If you drop 90% of those Defensive recommendations, you will not be able to absorb enough damage remaining.
In the video at the end i took:
A charged AoE Nuke at around 127,000 Damage.
A charged AoE Nuke at around 106,000 damage.
BOTH AT ONCE.
followed immidiately after by:
A Charged Gigabolt (Collossus), for around 76,000 damage.
A charged AoE Nuke at around 116,000 damage
BOTH AT ONCE.
Total approx: 425,000 Damage in less than 5 seconds. SURVIVED
I am interested to see this done with regeneration, 90% less of the recommended options and no Active Defense/offenses, show me.
...and get you killed.
There is no +Defense shield better than Ebon Void.
I would like to know what you are running, with no Active Defense fail-buttons that lets you tank 3 Shadow Collossus 'no dieing', and show us.
Lightning Reflexes gives you a chance to die> No dodge = die, Invuln you die on spikes too easily.
More effective things than Conviction and BCR would probably have to be the Necrulls Elixir stacking device...this guide does NOT condone or support the use of brokenly stacking Devices to give god-mode like Necrulls Elixir or Eruption. The design is respectable and pure of exploitation of obviously broken mechanics. (like Gas pellets as an excuse for DPS)
Without maintaining 10 stacks of Ebon Void, 3 Shadow Collossus will nuke you in the first 30 seconds, no matter what passive you are running or how many heals you are popping, you havent that amount of Max-Health to take what they have to give to you. This is not a DPS Tank, those in a situation needing this type of Massive-Defense tank, fail.
Since when does Defiance need to be activated? If you mean the heals, Conviction and BCR are almost instantaneous, and grant over 5 times the healing Regen could imagine.
Bringing Regeneration to a Triple Collossus fight, is simply going to get you killed, that and Gravitars AoE would take you out. The lack of defenses makes for a failed Ultimate Tank.
Defiances uses no energy, rather, IT GRANTS IT, and offers over double the defensive structure Regen offers....ultimately Regeneration does not give enough of either Defense/Heal aspect, only put up LESS THAN HALF what i have used. Id put Regeneration on a low end Pseudo-Tank or DPS Tank (in those cases id be AoPM or something), but again, this is the MAIN, Ultimate 'NEVER EVER EVER EVER DIE' Tank. Youre the backbone, not the sharp rib.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Dominus Drake Primus Database ,Also @Pyromasher ingame
First of all, there is never a need to tank more than one Shadow Colossus, that's a completely artificial situation.
So I took Elle the Ghost Blade and she easily and consistently kills a Shadow Colossus in a short amount of time. Elle has Heroic Gear, 1 Vigilante but no Legacy Devices. And Elle has solo'd Gravitar many times. Can you explain why my flawed tank accomplished that?
Yep, Regeneration, STR, CON, INT, no CC or CS, Warden/Vindicator.
And I must respectfully disagree that tanks are not about DPS, they most certainly are if you want to hold agg vs. very high DPS heroes like a Lightning Arc DEX hero.
Honestly, turning 100,000 damage into 1,000 is really an easy accomplishment. Even Elle can do it with Regen, MD, block and take 500,000 unmitigated damage (seriously, why wouldn't she take Masterful Dodge). The trick is finding a tank who can hold as much agg as possible with high DPS teammates.
So if you want to label this as ULTIMATE TANK fine with me but your more accurately trying to describe an UNKILLABLE HERO with substandard DPS. Love to see if my Lighting Arc DPS hero can hold agg from your toon in Gravitar.
Lastly, I doubt any powers other than Devour Essence would be anywhere near as effective. Devour Essence has some unique attributes.
I do not agree with the basis of this statement. Both from game design and Champions-Online mechanics.. respectfully biensure.
This is true.. but it's a problem in my opinion.
It's not a build I would use as those level of defenses in game are not necessary. While the guide addresses that it may not be able to hold aggro against a powerhouse DPS, I believe a true measure of tanking is enough survivability mixed with enough threat generation (in the form of damage and healing) to keep aggro against any situation, even if the situation involves questionable powers. The sad fact is that is the way the game is heading, with no fixes or balance changes in sight.
I would also argue that it would not take extreme builds like a petmaster or NPG spammer to snag aggro from a pure survival build like this, some of the newly buffed powers like Two Gun Mojo are absurd enough on their own. I say this without testing though, and it could very well be close.
In it's current state tanking (in the form of aggro management) is about DPS as it's the most reliable way to generate threat. That isn't to say that Snake's build won't hold aggro, it will against 99% of the players in game and I'd recommend it for folks wanting to dip their feet in the extreme survival game.
For last night i was informed you didnt even know where to go to enter Resistance.
Show me your Regen build stands against 3 Shadow Collossus, with no active defenses and 90% less of the things i recommended, no conviction, no bcr no ebon void.
If you cant find the door to the instance then im afraid on that basis i think youre talking nonsense. I must ask that YOU prove it on a build you seem to say can do it without all i informed.
Cant wait.
Again to those saying you have higher DPS, this is not a dps build, this is Ultimate Main-Tanking. I will repeat again, this is not about dps. If you do have higher dps, Good for you! I dont care, neither will the main tank.
This is where i realise how little you really know. Try playing with Ego Weaponry or Fissure or combine them even....this is really basic stuff...on that comment i dont even know if i should bother argueing with you.
I wont tear that comment up in a thousand ways, but i could, iv picked powers as weak as Lazer Sword and turned them into a Ultimate Tank that doesnt lose aggro, and you should know...but i dont think you do, that Lazer Sword is a heap of crap.
blocking can reduce 80% of any incoming dmg ALONE, then throw in whatever else you want on top of that... so just from blocking you turn that 100 into 20.
dunno why i have to bring this up again but... here it is.
snake, for prosperity's sake change the thread title from ultimate to just tanking... the flames will continue to rage and the whole topic is far too biased and based on opinions from both sides.
My build directory (work in progress)
Guide list
Freeform Builds
In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
Ultimate Tank: Never die, Always hold Aggro (even against lightning arc'ers)
Lightning Arc pull aggro from me? What a joke. For those who often see me in Gravitars know that i always have aggro and *grumble* half the time have to solo it because there's very few other good tanks around...FURRY or Dil'Gear or Den'Zaiver do a good job, shame they have to do everything for everyone else.
Im apart of that 0.0001% that can take aggro off a Threat tank with the shear amount of DPS...if i switch some stuff to include Challenging Strikes and Crippling challenge. Nobody but a very very select minority of people in the game could think about pulling from me. Yes im elitist, deal with it.
Anyway me lose aggro..it hasnt happened since Grav came out...and much before that going aaaall the way back to near launch. Me and Steve Burnside have had FULL control of her aggro since it came out against every other opposing threat tank. I'v nothing further to prove having done it for so long.
Opinions with video evidence ^^ Sorry no can do, iv displayed FACTS and even given a show of what the Ultimate Tank can withstand to boot. I cant give any more.
I cant help you enough.
Correct, I never had a desire to do Resistance. Last night I did.
You seem fixated on THREE Colossi. Why? Why not FOUR? How about ZERO since there is NO NEED TO EVER TAKE ON EVEN ONE COLOSSUS? You cannot judge tanking by means of an ARTIFICIAL BENCHMARK. As others in this thread have politely pointed out, it isn't necessary.
If you can provide a legitimate reason to solo 3 Colossi I think you may change people's opinions here.
On the other hand, there is a need to solo Gravitar, i.e. to let the team rez and rebuild when wiped. Elle has done this several times waiting for the healer's Triumphant Recovery to recycle.
So what is the name of your hero that tanks Grav? My Lightning Arc hero Autocrat always takes and keeps agg from Furry (that's not on purpose, I do appreciate having tanks). I like DPS role heroes who can tank simply because they kill things much much faster which saves a lot of time in Gravitar. DPS is about 80% higher on my ranged role Lightning Arc hero vs. my tank role LA hero.
My responses are in green ^
Kaiserin and SteveBurnside we're present to witness this:
on a toon that doesnt run Gas Pellets as a broken excuse for DPS.
So before your e-peen gets ahead of you, you better work your way up the leagues. If you're Lightning Arc, im not wasting time with you. Also..i didnt give everything i had into that DPS log, i can go higher if i want. This might surprise you but im THEMED.
Lmfao, the part about him not knowing where the entrance to resistance is had me in absolute stitches.
So, whats so great about this lightning arc hero you keep mentioning? if you think the 2k dps from your lightning arc is going to generate alot of aggro, pull gravitar or whoever off a proper tank and then hold that aggro you're gravely mistaken.
I'm with Snake on this one, put your epeen away and go skulk back to your cupboard under the stairs.
Just kind of wanted to touch base on this. Theme builds are very subjective, in fact they just tailor to the costume itself. If you can turn anything into an ultimate tank, and you did state it right there. I would be interested in seeing how you could manage an ultimate tank utilizing the powerset that was made for tanking: Might.
Many will argue that might isn't used for tanking. I concur, the fact that defensive combo alone is the only power of it's nature, an ability with innate threat generation, is in the might powerset says otherwise.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
Since 3 Colossi seem to be the limit factor here from what I'm gathering at. Has this build been tested against other players? We are just testing damage mitigation right? So for instance, how would this hold up against 5 players all just using Dragon's Claw? I say just DC because it has no modifier's other than an innate crit severity increase, which is just a damage booster. So really this is to test the survive-ability of this ultimate tank build is it not? Everyone here knows that any sort of healing/attack mechanic with CC adv will double dip into the threat pool of, even more so on a maintain ( I'm looking at you Devour Essence, Two-Gun Mojo, and Lightning Arc. ).
Since we are setting some kind of standard here, I would like to know how such a build would hold up against 3 damage dealers, all crit based with, say Dragon's Claw? They use no stuns, no healing debuffs, nothing in particular that would in anyway hinder your abilities, just like in most PvE. Just raw damage from other players. Of course you would be expected to heal yourself through your abilities.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
Currently the physical damage being so low makes the bonus threat it offers, nullified, might as well pick Brute strike or Shred (shreds awsome) or Cleave or whatever else.
It only takes once to debunk an absolute word such as 'never'.
Bad news for you, thats not my tank. Retconned to a DPS.
I'd already done what i wanted to do with a tank on Test Server. Best thing about a sub. So it cost me nothing to enjoy something.
Oooh.. then I've debunked the other absolute.
Thats on Natures Intervention. Whats crawled up your buttocks? lol
No idea, didn't have a specified alt in that post. The word 'me' didn't tell me it meant only 1 particular alt, or if that alt is holding aggro by the 'ultimate tanking' standard.
I've also always wondered how In Dmg which correlates to In DPS has to do with Out DPS anyway.
Snake's hella mature.. he's just right.
Coming into a "how to make an ultimate TANK build" thread and rambling on about optimizing for DPS tanking is just lame.
But I bet, because u watched the video, you learned something anyhow. Purpose served..