I am well aware of the timeline re: both Atari and Perfect World, and initially we were told it was because of the lag in transferring across to PWE that explained the inaction with Champions-Online - but that was a long time ago now.
Cryptic can no longer use Atari as an excuse, they have had a long time under PWE now, easily enough time to see results.
We are not seeing no results because of Atari - we are seeing no results because there is no development plan whatsoever (which explains the total lack of SoTG and radio-silence).
And speaking as a superhero fan it is difficult to understand why Cryptic-Studios are not investing in this title. They could have more of the market-share of the genre which is far less congested than the swords 'n' sorcery fantasy market.
If Champions-Online was all it could be we would be taking DCUO's customers as well as hooking those just waiting for Marvel Heroes.
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Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
And speaking as a superhero fan it is difficult to understand why Cryptic-Studios are not investing in this title.
I can understand it, especially after reading Dan Stahl's latest posts/interviews about STO. The gist of it is, at least how I understood it, Cryptic's level of development is commensurate with how well the game is doing. If the game isn't generating a ton of income for them, they aren't going to spend a ton of time/resources/money on developing new stuff for it.
There's also a reason that the superhero genre isn't as saturated in the MMO market as the sword and sorcery. It simply doesn't have the fanbase or international appeal the fantasy genre has.
Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
There's also a reason that the superhero genre isn't as saturated in the MMO market as the sword and sorcery. It simply doesn't have the fanbase or international appeal the fantasy genre has.
I disagree.. so does the box office, Nielson Ratings, and the last form of American print publication to still be turning a profit BEFORE digital sales (aka comic books).
I disagree.. so does the box office, Nielson Ratings, and the last form of American print publication to still be turning a profit BEFORE digital sales (aka comic books).
The MMO market and television/movie market are two distinctly different things. You don't see a bunch of movies or tv shows centered around the whole sword and sorcery gimmick these days.
The gist of it is, at least how I understood it, Cryptic's level of development is commensurate with how well the game is doing. If the game isn't generating a ton of income for them, they aren't going to spend a ton of time/resources/money on developing new stuff for it.
But a certain performance equating to a level of subsequent investment for it is a perfectly circular argument.
If Champions-Online is not invested in seriously it will never be more than the shell of a game - (taking into account the scale of the Hero Games IP as possible potential) - than it currently is.
In short as (others have quite rightly said) - you have to spend money to make money
PWE Cryptic-Studios not investing in Champions-Online because in its current enfeebled state it is not making as much money as STO (which they have 50 devs pumping out content for), is one of the lamest excuses and nonsensical business decisions I have ever heard in my life.
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Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
With respect, You are not accurately identifying the frustration here felt by many, who have been supporting CO for the longest time and seen their long-time Champions-Online support taken by PWE Cryptic and turned into development for STO, Neverwinter and their undisclosed project whilst CO is left to rot.
Your join-date says Jan 2013, so if you are indeed new, then this is what you need to understand before you go posting labelling forumites bitter-veterans.
<snip>
I'm an old beta tester. I followed this game from its inception, and recently returned from an undesired 18-month hiatus.
Yes, I know there are problems. I don't claim that everything is perfect, but as someone who left during the dark ages and returned over Christmas, let me assure you that I actually REMEMBER how bad things used to be.
You may not understand this since you have been with the game the entire time and have been here for the (admittedly slow) progression of improvements, but the game plays much better than it did when I left.
Yes, yes, I get that there should be more. Stay with me here.
Companies advertise their other products to their current customers. Take a car manufacturer, which understands that satisfied customers will continue to buy their cars if you keep them engaged with the company.
This goes for MMO companies as well. Bear in mind that, unlike some of the "bittervets" here, many people play many different games. For my part, I have installed on this very computer: GW2, CO, STO, TERA, TSW, EVE and SWTOR, all of which get attention from me on at least a monthly basis. Lately I have been playing CO a lot because it was the MMO that I missed the most during my break -- TERA has been a somewhat distant second with its F2P conversion (which was done very, very well, IMO).
You will notice that of the MMOs I am playing, only one company has multiple products in rotation: Cryptic. I am no big Star Trek fan, but I enjoyed CO so I started playing STO as well when it was released. Their marketing at the time made a difference in that I knew it existed, and I enjoy my time in that game as well.
Thus: this complaint is ridiculous. There may be something to the notion that NWN is getting development resources that could be expended on CO, but to be angry over a launcher advert is just inane.
There's also a reason that the superhero genre isn't as saturated in the MMO market as the sword and sorcery. It simply doesn't have the fanbase or international appeal the fantasy genre has.
i suspect it has far more to do with it being handled consistently badly than there not being a market.
For one the idea of being sent on a quest by a random stranger (NPC) fits perfectly well within the kind of general narrative of a fantasy sword and sorcery. However for a game based around super heroes its far less fitting as heroes temd to either be reactive (eg random bad guy attacks and they spring into action) or proactive (on some kind of mission to clean up the streets one thug at a time ala punisher).
Rarly dose a big name hero go "yo mighty dude" go duff up some mooks and steel there clothes, while I stand here and do sod all
This game fails on its own merits. It's not because what they're trying to do isn't HIGHLY desired in the market.
It's because they fail so hard on execution.
Traditional Roleplayers are Sword and Sorcery but traditional gamers will play anything that is fun and engaging. And frankly, I dont know a gamer who doesn't at least appreciate western action comic books.
Thus: this complaint is ridiculous. There may be something to the notion that NWN is getting development resources that could be expended on CO, but to be angry over a launcher advert is just inane.
And taking players from CO to Neverwinter.. accomplishes? Less players in CO. Advertise all you want but frankly any success this campaign to get Champions Players to go to NW is frankly not good for CO. If anything advertise Neverwinter in ad space from your competitors Traditional RPG websites like Obsidian Portal
Or Advertise for CO on Marvel.com lol yeah right.. that costs money but shifting people away from CO costs them nothing.
but to be angry over a launcher advert is just inane.
Eight months ago I was angry. Now when i think about Champions-Online it is just sad resignation of wasted potential - but what gets me is the forum silence and denial in interviews from PWE Cryptic that there is anything wrong with their current stewardship with the title. Their claim that one title does not take resources from another is especially laughable, and one that has been proved wrong in interviews with Cryptic-Studios employees and the results are self-evident.
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Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
<snip>
And taking players from CO to Neverwinter.. accomplishes? Less players in CO. Advertise all you want but frankly any success this campaign to get Champions Players to go to NW is frankly not good for CO. If anything advertise Neverwinter in ad space from your competitors Traditional RPG websites like Obsidian Portal
Or Advertise for CO on Marvel.com lol yeah right.. that costs money but shifting people away from CO costs them nothing.
Oy vey...
There is room in the marketplace and on modern data storage for more than one MMO by the same company.
Most people are no longer tied to a single MMO these days. The days of "MMO enslavement" are well and truly gone with the arrival of F2P and B2P options.
There is room in the marketplace and on modern data storage for more than one MMO by the same company.
Most people are no longer tied to a single MMO these days. The days of "MMO enslavement" are well and truly gone with the arrival of F2P and B2P options.
Hard Truth is CO players are seeking ANYwhere else to put their energy because this game represents so much dissapointment and wasted potential. Hell I've been playing games I would never touch just because CO sucks major.
And it is obvious that PWE expects players to be distracted by the next shiny toy that does nothing. If Neverwinter is that toy.. Champions Online will lose those players, possibly permanently.
So sure PWE has room for the title.. but CO can't afford it.
Given neither CO nor Neverwinter require a subscription, getting folks involved in both is actually a really good idea.
If you get tired of CO or want a break, and haven't touched Neverwinter, chances are you will try a game that PW doesn't own. You might like it more, whatever -- any way you slice it, PW loses.
If you try Neverwinter, you may end up playing one, the other, go back and forth, or play both. This is a big win for PW.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Hard Truth is CO players are seeking ANYwhere else to put their energy because this game represents so much dissapointment and wasted potential. Hell I've been playing games I would never touch just because CO sucks major.
And it is obvious that PWE expects players to be distracted by the next shiny toy that does nothing. If Neverwinter is that toy.. Champions Online will lose those players, possibly permanently.
So sure PWE has room for the title.. but CO can't afford it.
Stop projecting. Don't presume that everyone is as disenchanted with everything as you are.
inb4 I'm suddenly a part of the CDF for not jumping on the bandwagon
Hard Truth is CO players are seeking ANYwhere else to put their energy because this game represents so much dissapointment and wasted potential. Hell I've been playing games I would never touch just because CO sucks major.
And it is obvious that PWE expects players to be distracted by the next shiny toy that does nothing. If Neverwinter is that toy.. Champions Online will lose those players, possibly permanently.
So sure PWE has room for the title.. but CO can't afford it.
If you hate this game so much... why are you still here?
Still holding out for those Telepathy changes?
Srsly, continuing to participate in a leisure activity that you do not enjoy simply because you have invested time and money into it in the past amounts to little more than self-flagellation.
My toilet-mat with it's frilly edges, frisky cheeky little tassles and lush-pile means more to me spiritually, emotionally and excites me far more than being involved with core-connect or any of PWE Cryptic's other titles. I know that might sound a little weird as I am not a toilet-mat connoisseur or anything (lol) - I just wanted to put it out there in context for them, because If PWE Cryptic think that by under-investing in and starving Champions-Online whilst dangling their fattened alternatives in front of me is going to work - they are in for a really...really long-wait.
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Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
Its like you guys are looking for anything to complain about. This is a normal business practice. Anything that helps Cryptic is good for Champions.
There is no evidence whatsoever that PWE have done anything for Champions-Online other than save it from the chop when Atari bailed. Sorry but thats the cold-hard truth.
But I agree with you in that debating the topic online is not going to get us anywhere. We are after-all talking among ourselves only, now that dev-communication has ceased.
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Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
There is no evidence whatsoever that PWE have done anything for Champions-Online other than save it from the chop when Atari bailed. Sorry but thats the cold-hard truth.
<snip>
Would you agree that this is actually a pretty big thing?
Would you agree that this is actually a pretty big thing?
It would be if Champs had actually been in danger of being chopped when Atari bailed. I'd like to see where that little tidbit came from in the first place.
I'd turn the question back on you by the analogy of "Is it ok to let a loved-one languish on life-support when there is no hope in sight"? (nor reasonable expectation for there to be any hope based-on past experience)? - or would it be kinder just to turn off the artificial life support?.
Mixed feelings to-be-honest. I want Champions-Online to live but i don't want it to exist in a content-starved coma.
I want it to live, not just live but LIVE !!! - to thrive!.
I would dearly love it to fulfill its potential with the IP and be a true-spiritual successor to CoH - kicking sand in both DCUO's and Marvel Heroes' ice-cream.
But that is unlikely to happen if PWE Cryptic don't wake up and see the potential.
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Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
If you hate this game so much... why are you still here?
Hate is not the right word. But as to why we are still here? Because despite its DEEP flaws and utter stagnation there is currently no other game that offers the level of customization this one allows (though Im hoping the guys working on Project Awakened manage to pull through, but that is a looooong way off), and the only other other superhero MMO's controls and interface SUCK.
Simply put, if you are a PC gamer that wants superheroes and/or indeepth customization this is our only option currently.
I can understand it, especially after reading Dan Stahl's latest posts/interviews about STO. The gist of it is, at least how I understood it, Cryptic's level of development is commensurate with how well the game is doing. If the game isn't generating a ton of income for them, they aren't going to spend a ton of time/resources/money on developing new stuff for it.
...If people are spending money in another one of Cryptic's games instead of this one, guess which game is gonna get development resources.
Yes. If by here you mean refusing to log in to champions online and only participating only in the forum
Everyone know The Bezters minds powers are that strong The Bezter doesnt need to log on to play Champs..OH I FORGOT ...Cryptic nerfed The Bezters powers
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I honestly wouldn't have cared about the ad in the launcher if the current situation with CO was different, that is with us getting consistent development news updates and that we've been getting substantial content development post-alerts and post-reloaded.
The thing that irks me the most is the silence and lack of news going on for a long time now and suddenly BOOM a Neverwinter ad pops up out of the blue.
You know, when I saw what the NW Founders Pack includes, I actually thought about buying it. But then, I realized that I would be spending nearly 200 bucks for the thing that will supposedly kill CO...
NO WAY! CO is my game! And it's my duty to protect it - by boycotting Neverwinter! :mad:
What Neverwinter has over Champions Online:
Graphics-
*Effects looks better.
*Armor/Clothing looks better.
*A lot more polygons.
Gameplay-
*True action rather than false advertised "action" gameplay. Having an action control scheme doesn't instantly mean you are an Action RPG.
*More fun.
*More electrifying.
User Interface-
*It is just better.
All this^ with the same engine and the same compiler.
Champions Online needs an overhaul because it is slowly falling into the pit where all point and click, slow mmogs are going. IMO, Champions Online died after the beta weekend back in 2009. Where it went from a fun game to a game where it will only gets content when *error*run out of pylons*error.*
I wonder why you even have a LTS with such a low opinion on our game. :rolleyes:
Well, if you want superheroes, action controls and hi-polygon graphics, there is another game for you. It only comes at the price of really crappy customization.
Someone who bought a LTS for a game he now hates may have gotten his cup filled with empty promises.
That can't be true, since everyone who bought LTS just loves, loves, loves CO no matter what happens, or rather not happen.
XOXOXOX
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
But a certain performance equating to a level of subsequent investment for it is a perfectly circular argument.
If Champions-Online is not invested in seriously it will never be more than the shell of a game - (taking into account the scale of the Hero Games IP as possible potential) - than it currently is.
I agree with you completely. If CO is not performing well, neglecting development even more is certainly not going to help it grow. With that said, we aren't Cryptic/PWE so all we can do is express our thoughts to them and vote with our wallets.
Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
You know, when I saw what the NW Founders Pack includes, I actually thought about buying it. But then, I realized that I would be spending nearly 200 bucks for the thing that will supposedly kill CO...
NO WAY! CO is my game! And it's my duty to protect it - by boycotting Neverwinter! :mad:
Yeah that makes as much sense as Master Chief shooting a dog.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The game was fun then it de-escalated quite quickly to tedious, boring, and unrefundable. (I'm pretty sure if Bill Roper didn't lock his Wells Fargo account, I would have refunded.) I should have known when Mythos and Hellgate went down, that every other game he touched would be seeded with his evil.
Ah, I see. You were one of those players who bought the initial LTS, then witnessed Bill mess with the difficulty. That, however, makes me wonder how you could have missed the fact that this mess was cleaned up long ago.
The game has come a long way since then. CO is many things, and not all of them good these days, but it sure isn't unplayable.
Someone who bought a LTS for a game he now hates may have gotten his cup filled with empty promises.
That can't be true, since everyone who bought LTS just loves, loves, loves CO no matter what happens, or rather not happen.
XOXOXOX
One of my mates bought a LTS subscription to games whose players regularly troll here, on the basis that he generally plays an MMO for a certain length making the seem LTS worthwhile when compared to the subscription. However that game failed, abandoned the subscription model and switched to Buy to Play instead.
I have been considering a LTS myself but I've stopped for three reasons; this game might not survive for too long if NWO fails badly, I've not yet completed the story arc with my main character and I've yet to be convinced that I would enjoy playing all the content I've missed with secondary characters.
So I'm at the point where I'm happy to spend something here but the best deal in town is something I'm not yet ready to pick up.
My comments reflect my wary nature. I only buy something, even with recognition points, for a game unless I'm prepared to write off whatever I've spent without grumbling.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
[...]
Some rich people are dumb with their money. Others are dumb for wanting to play another Cryptic game after this catastrophe.
[...]
You should use this as your signature... because it's probably the most honest way you've ever expressed yourself.
Your entire way of thinking is peppered with the basic notion that if people aren't doing things the way you would, they must be dumb. Even if those people have jobs in an industry that's notoriously short on job openings, and they make enough money to support themselves with that job.
Oh wait, I'm trying to use logic and reason again aren't I?
Clearly, the people placing these ads know something you don't. Do some more research.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Smoochan youre the definition of a CoD Player today,
you play something quite clearly a load of trash, then go buy the next one anyway.
You know what they say about opinions, right? "Yours are all wrong." :P
Seriously though, you think this game is quite clearly a load of trash? Seems like a waste of your time being here. You don't see me on the TSW boards, do you?
In other related news, I've been playing Champs since launch. For over three years I've had very little complaints on this game. What bothers you might not be the same things that bother me. You think the game is too easy? I'm not a power builder. You need more content? I'd like more, but don't need it. My characters are my content. It works for me, and has kept me here longer than any other MMO with metric and/or gross tons of content.
Am I dumb for spending 260 buck on Neverwinter without so much as seeing a couple screenshots on it? Well, that's your opinion. And at the end of the day, your opinion of me has absolutely zero bearing on how much I enjoy Champions and Neverwinter.
What if Neverwinter tanks and I'm left with a $200 spider and a stupid-**** dark elf I'll never ever ever use because pointy ears are stupid? Well, it was fun while it lasted. I spent 260 buck on Champs, and it's so far been years on years of fun.
Now, I'm not rich by any means, but I don't have to go hungry for a week to spend 200 buck.
So again, am I dumb? Yes. But not for the reasons you state. :biggrin:
I just hate Neverwinter. Not gonna lie about it. I mostly hate it for what it did to CO.. but I'd likely hate it just for being another fantasy MMORPG
Interesting side note.. I LOVE Star Trek.. but also refuse to play Star Trek Online.. Cryptic just hasn't earned my time nor money after watching this game kill such great opportunities time and time
The fantasy MMO market is full to the brim, and dull. Plus don't we already have DDO? Not a big Star Trek fan, tried the game, way too slow and boring for my taste.
You know what they say about opinions, right? "Yours are all wrong." :P
Seriously though, you think this game is quite clearly a load of trash? Seems like a waste of your time being here. You don't see me on the TSW boards, do you?
In other related news, I've been playing Champs since launch. For over three years I've had very little complaints on this game. What bothers you might not be the same things that bother me. You think the game is too easy? I'm not a power builder. You need more content? I'd like more, but don't need it. My characters are my content. It works for me, and has kept me here longer than any other MMO with metric and/or gross tons of content.
Am I dumb for spending 260 buck on Neverwinter without so much as seeing a couple screenshots on it? Well, that's your opinion. And at the end of the day, your opinion of me has absolutely zero bearing on how much I enjoy Champions and Neverwinter.
What if Neverwinter tanks and I'm left with a $200 spider and a stupid-**** dark elf I'll never ever ever use because pointy ears are stupid? Well, it was fun while it lasted. I spent 260 buck on Champs, and it's so far been years on years of fun.
Now, I'm not rich by any means, but I don't have to go hungry for a week to spend 200 buck.
So again, am I dumb? Yes. But not for the reasons you state. :biggrin:
I thought the saying was, "opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one, and not everyone wants to hear about it." Have to agree with you though. The way you do things, or what you spend your money on is your business. There are no "wrong" opinions, there are just opinions. I just think that people put too much stock into them these days. But out of all of the MMOs out there, this one keeps me coming back time and time again.
Am I dumb for spending 260 buck on Neverwinter without so much as seeing a couple screenshots on it? Well, that's your opinion. And at the end of the day, your opinion of me has absolutely zero bearing on how much I enjoy Champions and Neverwinter.
What if Neverwinter tanks and I'm left with a $200 spider and a stupid-**** dark elf I'll never ever ever use because pointy ears are stupid? Well, it was fun while it lasted. I spent 260 buck on Champs, and it's so far been years on years of fun.
Now, I'm not rich by any means, but I don't have to go hungry for a week to spend 200 buck.
So again, am I dumb? Yes. But not for the reasons you state. :biggrin:
Dumb, because you've consistently stated that you don't like generic fantasy #193,292,234 games, and you don't like elves. So why give Cryptic $260 for access to an elven racial background on a generic fantasy game?
Dumb, because you've consistently stated that you don't like generic fantasy #193,292,234 games, and you don't like elves. So why give Cryptic $260 for access to an elven racial background on a generic fantasy game?
I would have bought it regardless of what race and mount it came with (well, I basically did that :biggrin:), mainly to support Cryptic. I'm not happy with how Champs is being treated, but they do put out good games, in my opinion. I like to support 'em. Anyway, it came with a bunch of other stuff. Elf background and spider mount are at the very bottom of the list of why I bought it.
And, I've been into D&D for almost 30 years, and would love to give the Foundry a whirl over there.
And, I've been into D&D for almost 30 years, and would love to give the Foundry a whirl over there.
This is why I don't entirely agree with the "its another generic fantasy MMO" counter-NWO arguments (was obviously teasing on my post). D&D is not just generic fantasy, its the mother of all generic fantasy in the RPG world, with followers going back to the begining of RPGs despite any (IMO sometimes deserved) hate occasionally thrown its way.
Comments
Cryptic can no longer use Atari as an excuse, they have had a long time under PWE now, easily enough time to see results.
We are not seeing no results because of Atari - we are seeing no results because there is no development plan whatsoever (which explains the total lack of SoTG and radio-silence).
And speaking as a superhero fan it is difficult to understand why Cryptic-Studios are not investing in this title. They could have more of the market-share of the genre which is far less congested than the swords 'n' sorcery fantasy market.
If Champions-Online was all it could be we would be taking DCUO's customers as well as hooking those just waiting for Marvel Heroes.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
I can understand it, especially after reading Dan Stahl's latest posts/interviews about STO. The gist of it is, at least how I understood it, Cryptic's level of development is commensurate with how well the game is doing. If the game isn't generating a ton of income for them, they aren't going to spend a ton of time/resources/money on developing new stuff for it.
There's also a reason that the superhero genre isn't as saturated in the MMO market as the sword and sorcery. It simply doesn't have the fanbase or international appeal the fantasy genre has.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I disagree.. so does the box office, Nielson Ratings, and the last form of American print publication to still be turning a profit BEFORE digital sales (aka comic books).
The MMO market and television/movie market are two distinctly different things. You don't see a bunch of movies or tv shows centered around the whole sword and sorcery gimmick these days.
But a certain performance equating to a level of subsequent investment for it is a perfectly circular argument.
If Champions-Online is not invested in seriously it will never be more than the shell of a game - (taking into account the scale of the Hero Games IP as possible potential) - than it currently is.
In short as (others have quite rightly said) - you have to spend money to make money
PWE Cryptic-Studios not investing in Champions-Online because in its current enfeebled state it is not making as much money as STO (which they have 50 devs pumping out content for), is one of the lamest excuses and nonsensical business decisions I have ever heard in my life.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
I'm an old beta tester. I followed this game from its inception, and recently returned from an undesired 18-month hiatus.
Yes, I know there are problems. I don't claim that everything is perfect, but as someone who left during the dark ages and returned over Christmas, let me assure you that I actually REMEMBER how bad things used to be.
You may not understand this since you have been with the game the entire time and have been here for the (admittedly slow) progression of improvements, but the game plays much better than it did when I left.
Yes, yes, I get that there should be more. Stay with me here.
Companies advertise their other products to their current customers. Take a car manufacturer, which understands that satisfied customers will continue to buy their cars if you keep them engaged with the company.
This goes for MMO companies as well. Bear in mind that, unlike some of the "bittervets" here, many people play many different games. For my part, I have installed on this very computer: GW2, CO, STO, TERA, TSW, EVE and SWTOR, all of which get attention from me on at least a monthly basis. Lately I have been playing CO a lot because it was the MMO that I missed the most during my break -- TERA has been a somewhat distant second with its F2P conversion (which was done very, very well, IMO).
You will notice that of the MMOs I am playing, only one company has multiple products in rotation: Cryptic. I am no big Star Trek fan, but I enjoyed CO so I started playing STO as well when it was released. Their marketing at the time made a difference in that I knew it existed, and I enjoy my time in that game as well.
Thus: this complaint is ridiculous. There may be something to the notion that NWN is getting development resources that could be expended on CO, but to be angry over a launcher advert is just inane.
@Tiresias
Tiresias: Celestial/Darkness (Support)
Ravish: Bestial/Might/Unarmed (Tank)
i suspect it has far more to do with it being handled consistently badly than there not being a market.
For one the idea of being sent on a quest by a random stranger (NPC) fits perfectly well within the kind of general narrative of a fantasy sword and sorcery. However for a game based around super heroes its far less fitting as heroes temd to either be reactive (eg random bad guy attacks and they spring into action) or proactive (on some kind of mission to clean up the streets one thug at a time ala punisher).
Rarly dose a big name hero go "yo mighty dude" go duff up some mooks and steel there clothes, while I stand here and do sod all
It's because they fail so hard on execution.
Traditional Roleplayers are Sword and Sorcery but traditional gamers will play anything that is fun and engaging. And frankly, I dont know a gamer who doesn't at least appreciate western action comic books.
And taking players from CO to Neverwinter.. accomplishes? Less players in CO. Advertise all you want but frankly any success this campaign to get Champions Players to go to NW is frankly not good for CO. If anything advertise Neverwinter in ad space from your competitors Traditional RPG websites like Obsidian Portal
Or Advertise for CO on Marvel.com lol yeah right.. that costs money but shifting people away from CO costs them nothing.
Eight months ago I was angry. Now when i think about Champions-Online it is just sad resignation of wasted potential - but what gets me is the forum silence and denial in interviews from PWE Cryptic that there is anything wrong with their current stewardship with the title. Their claim that one title does not take resources from another is especially laughable, and one that has been proved wrong in interviews with Cryptic-Studios employees and the results are self-evident.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
Oy vey...
There is room in the marketplace and on modern data storage for more than one MMO by the same company.
Most people are no longer tied to a single MMO these days. The days of "MMO enslavement" are well and truly gone with the arrival of F2P and B2P options.
@Tiresias
Tiresias: Celestial/Darkness (Support)
Ravish: Bestial/Might/Unarmed (Tank)
Hard Truth is CO players are seeking ANYwhere else to put their energy because this game represents so much dissapointment and wasted potential. Hell I've been playing games I would never touch just because CO sucks major.
And it is obvious that PWE expects players to be distracted by the next shiny toy that does nothing. If Neverwinter is that toy.. Champions Online will lose those players, possibly permanently.
So sure PWE has room for the title.. but CO can't afford it.
If you get tired of CO or want a break, and haven't touched Neverwinter, chances are you will try a game that PW doesn't own. You might like it more, whatever -- any way you slice it, PW loses.
If you try Neverwinter, you may end up playing one, the other, go back and forth, or play both. This is a big win for PW.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Stop projecting. Don't presume that everyone is as disenchanted with everything as you are.
inb4 I'm suddenly a part of the CDF for not jumping on the bandwagon
If you hate this game so much... why are you still here?
Still holding out for those Telepathy changes?
Srsly, continuing to participate in a leisure activity that you do not enjoy simply because you have invested time and money into it in the past amounts to little more than self-flagellation.
@Tiresias
Tiresias: Celestial/Darkness (Support)
Ravish: Bestial/Might/Unarmed (Tank)
Everyone No. But more players have left CO than have stayed on CO from my experience.
Cryptic refuses to release actual population numbers so it is conjecture.
Yes. If by here you mean refusing to log in to champions online and only participating only in the forum
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
Its like you guys are looking for anything to complain about. This is a normal business practice. Anything that helps Cryptic is good for Champions.
Its fun! You should give it a try. :cool:
There is no evidence whatsoever that PWE have done anything for Champions-Online other than save it from the chop when Atari bailed. Sorry but thats the cold-hard truth.
But I agree with you in that debating the topic online is not going to get us anywhere. We are after-all talking among ourselves only, now that dev-communication has ceased.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
Would you agree that this is actually a pretty big thing?
@Tiresias
Tiresias: Celestial/Darkness (Support)
Ravish: Bestial/Might/Unarmed (Tank)
It would be if Champs had actually been in danger of being chopped when Atari bailed. I'd like to see where that little tidbit came from in the first place.
I'd turn the question back on you by the analogy of "Is it ok to let a loved-one languish on life-support when there is no hope in sight"? (nor reasonable expectation for there to be any hope based-on past experience)? - or would it be kinder just to turn off the artificial life support?.
Mixed feelings to-be-honest. I want Champions-Online to live but i don't want it to exist in a content-starved coma.
I want it to live, not just live but LIVE !!! - to thrive!.
I would dearly love it to fulfill its potential with the IP and be a true-spiritual successor to CoH - kicking sand in both DCUO's and Marvel Heroes' ice-cream.
But that is unlikely to happen if PWE Cryptic don't wake up and see the potential.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
Hate is not the right word. But as to why we are still here? Because despite its DEEP flaws and utter stagnation there is currently no other game that offers the level of customization this one allows (though Im hoping the guys working on Project Awakened manage to pull through, but that is a looooong way off), and the only other other superhero MMO's controls and interface SUCK.
Simply put, if you are a PC gamer that wants superheroes and/or indeepth customization this is our only option currently.
Anything that's good for another Cryptic game, is good for that game and that game alone. As was already mentioned in another post...
...If people are spending money in another one of Cryptic's games instead of this one, guess which game is gonna get development resources.
Everyone know The Bezters minds powers are that strong The Bezter doesnt need to log on to play Champs..OH I FORGOT ...Cryptic nerfed The Bezters powers
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
The thing that irks me the most is the silence and lack of news going on for a long time now and suddenly BOOM a Neverwinter ad pops up out of the blue.
NO WAY! CO is my game! And it's my duty to protect it - by boycotting Neverwinter! :mad:
How dare you posting something like this in an Anti-Neverwinter thread!?! :mad:
You want CO to be like Neverwinter? Then get off our game and play Neverwinter, you traitor!
It is not. "No more boring auto attacks and lengthy recharge times." compares CO's combat system to CoX's, if you must know.
I wonder why you even have a LTS with such a low opinion on our game. :rolleyes:
Well, if you want superheroes, action controls and hi-polygon graphics, there is another game for you. It only comes at the price of really crappy customization.
Someone who bought a LTS for a game he now hates may not be the best judge of MMOs.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
That can't be true, since everyone who bought LTS just loves, loves, loves CO no matter what happens, or rather not happen.
XOXOXOX
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Problem solved.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
I've tried DCUO. Repeatedly. Their action combat blows, so I'm still here. No thank you.
I agree with you completely. If CO is not performing well, neglecting development even more is certainly not going to help it grow. With that said, we aren't Cryptic/PWE so all we can do is express our thoughts to them and vote with our wallets.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I laugh because when the merge first happened our website got posts from Jade Dynasty constantly. I bet this "accident" happens again.
ha. ha ha.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Yeah that makes as much sense as Master Chief shooting a dog.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You underestimate the power of a fully-loaded daschaund.
*laughs along heartily while a single tear rolls down my cheek*
--Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
--Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
--Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)
-One Shots
--The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
Ah, I see. You were one of those players who bought the initial LTS, then witnessed Bill mess with the difficulty. That, however, makes me wonder how you could have missed the fact that this mess was cleaned up long ago.
The game has come a long way since then. CO is many things, and not all of them good these days, but it sure isn't unplayable.
DCUO is for both X-BOX 360 and PC.
And I would not recomend playing it with a controler!
One of my mates bought a LTS subscription to games whose players regularly troll here, on the basis that he generally plays an MMO for a certain length making the seem LTS worthwhile when compared to the subscription. However that game failed, abandoned the subscription model and switched to Buy to Play instead.
I have been considering a LTS myself but I've stopped for three reasons; this game might not survive for too long if NWO fails badly, I've not yet completed the story arc with my main character and I've yet to be convinced that I would enjoy playing all the content I've missed with secondary characters.
So I'm at the point where I'm happy to spend something here but the best deal in town is something I'm not yet ready to pick up.
My comments reflect my wary nature. I only buy something, even with recognition points, for a game unless I'm prepared to write off whatever I've spent without grumbling.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Actually it's for PS3 and PC.
MUO was supposed to be the Big SuperheroGame for XBOX...
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Iiiii errr...dunno..about, ya know...that, and stuff.
You should use this as your signature... because it's probably the most honest way you've ever expressed yourself.
Your entire way of thinking is peppered with the basic notion that if people aren't doing things the way you would, they must be dumb. Even if those people have jobs in an industry that's notoriously short on job openings, and they make enough money to support themselves with that job.
Oh wait, I'm trying to use logic and reason again aren't I?
Clearly, the people placing these ads know something you don't. Do some more research.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
you play something quite clearly a load of trash, then go buy the next one anyway.
You know what they say about opinions, right? "Yours are all wrong." :P
Seriously though, you think this game is quite clearly a load of trash? Seems like a waste of your time being here. You don't see me on the TSW boards, do you?
In other related news, I've been playing Champs since launch. For over three years I've had very little complaints on this game. What bothers you might not be the same things that bother me. You think the game is too easy? I'm not a power builder. You need more content? I'd like more, but don't need it. My characters are my content. It works for me, and has kept me here longer than any other MMO with metric and/or gross tons of content.
Am I dumb for spending 260 buck on Neverwinter without so much as seeing a couple screenshots on it? Well, that's your opinion. And at the end of the day, your opinion of me has absolutely zero bearing on how much I enjoy Champions and Neverwinter.
What if Neverwinter tanks and I'm left with a $200 spider and a stupid-**** dark elf I'll never ever ever use because pointy ears are stupid? Well, it was fun while it lasted. I spent 260 buck on Champs, and it's so far been years on years of fun.
Now, I'm not rich by any means, but I don't have to go hungry for a week to spend 200 buck.
So again, am I dumb? Yes. But not for the reasons you state. :biggrin:
Now that made me laugh. It was inevitable that they were going to do this. I've already signed up for beta, just sitting back waiting now.
The fantasy MMO market is full to the brim, and dull. Plus don't we already have DDO? Not a big Star Trek fan, tried the game, way too slow and boring for my taste.
I thought the saying was, "opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one, and not everyone wants to hear about it." Have to agree with you though. The way you do things, or what you spend your money on is your business. There are no "wrong" opinions, there are just opinions. I just think that people put too much stock into them these days. But out of all of the MMOs out there, this one keeps me coming back time and time again.
Dumb, because you've consistently stated that you don't like generic fantasy #193,292,234 games, and you don't like elves. So why give Cryptic $260 for access to an elven racial background on a generic fantasy game?
I would have bought it regardless of what race and mount it came with (well, I basically did that :biggrin:), mainly to support Cryptic. I'm not happy with how Champs is being treated, but they do put out good games, in my opinion. I like to support 'em. Anyway, it came with a bunch of other stuff. Elf background and spider mount are at the very bottom of the list of why I bought it.
And, I've been into D&D for almost 30 years, and would love to give the Foundry a whirl over there.
Yes, it was just a little joke. The way I heard it though is "everyone has one, and they all stink." :P
This is why I don't entirely agree with the "its another generic fantasy MMO" counter-NWO arguments (was obviously teasing on my post). D&D is not just generic fantasy, its the mother of all generic fantasy in the RPG world, with followers going back to the begining of RPGs despite any (IMO sometimes deserved) hate occasionally thrown its way.