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A Rant from a Disgruntled Man
gaarafrednorrisp
Posts: 504 Arc User
WARNING
The following is all just my opinion and deals with personal PvP experiences as both a Gold and Silver. The tone is sarcastic and possibly a bit arrogant and there may or may not be the calling out of a few belief sets. This is your only warning
The following is all just my opinion and deals with personal PvP experiences as both a Gold and Silver. The tone is sarcastic and possibly a bit arrogant and there may or may not be the calling out of a few belief sets. This is your only warning
Hi. I'm GFN, and I'm a PvPer. While relatively new in terms of the veterans out there (Only been doing it since the summer) I've seen and learned enough to know most, if not all, the tricks. Now what I'm going to talk about is things that everyone's seen over the years.. but dammit are they still annoying as hell and just can't seem to ever stop. Please note, I'm not going to mention powers... those are all at the whim of the user and they are ALL counterable and beatable. What I'm mentioning are things that are but annoyance factors or somewhat unfair/overadvantageous.
Travel Powers:
Oh. My. GOD.
Nothing pisses me off more than beating a man to near death before he decides to prolong his eventual demise by popping a teleport or tunneling/Ooze power. And sadly, the ones who do this are the easiest to beat.. so you'll be seeing that little dance over and over until either you actually kill them or they do it to you.
Devices:
Even more annoying than Travel Powers... when someone decides to use something that could potentially mean a win for them.. and it's not a power. Ice Grenades, Heroic Resonance, Neutralization Grenades, anything of the sort.. just.. wow. Now I will not lie, I use them as well... though it's "If you use one, then I shall as well" deal. Freeforms, it's harder to detect device usage.. but ATs? You can know.
Griefers:
...this needs no explaination
Certain.. players:
I will not name any names.. But there's just those ones that use cookiecutter builds and the ones who are RPPvP, then will throw in game changing abilities, then claim it's "Concept"... Allow me to ask you this: Since when was a power armor soldier able to have a magical aura? Since when did ninjas learn mind control? Since when did a brutish fighter learn to heal themselves using machines?
Again, no names.. but there's even an SG that caters to these people... and they've also taken to claiming to being the best around (Hurrdurr)
Another thing I just don't understand is the elitist type of PvPers. The ones who will do everything to show that they are your superior and will complain at every instance if you manage to best them. They'll do anything to show their power, even challenging purely PvE builds.. then cry when they can't do any damage because the opponent does what they do in PvE.. pops down Ebon Sigils and then debuffs the hell outta them.
And the ones who complain knock-outs aren't a win... seriously? In my book, it is. A victory constitutes you had bested them in some aspect.. the people who knocked you out obviously bested you by exploiting the low knock resistance you have. Get over it.
Rant over.
AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
Post edited by gaarafrednorrisp on
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Comments
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Dragon's Wrath is ruining pvp.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
and again, not naming powers. There's ALWAYS a way to counter DW
Tunnelling is terrible at that.
Concerning the cookie-cutter builds. Well. I'm sure alot of people love to min-max stuff, but you don't need to be a number-cruncher to find out what wins duels, and games, and it's really easy to sense all the details of a build at the first glance. It makes people jaded, and even more since Devs are looking to leave PvP to rot.
I don't want to wing by knocking the person out of the ring. I happen to like knocks and use them on just about all my characters. It gets annoying constantly having to restart the duel because of the bubble.
As far as "exploiting the low knock resistance they have", that's not really true either. Even when I fight someone with high knock resistance, I'll "get lucky" and knock them anyway... and, oh great, I may have just been about to actually wing, but then the duel ended.
When I knock a player, I'm not doing it with the thought of "oooo, if I knock them far enough then I wing!", and the funny part is actually that when it happens the other person will immediately ( if we haven't dueled before ) start complaining about how I'm cheap and I need knocks to wing and blah blah, which I respond to immediately with "ring out doesn't count". They usually seem genuinely surprised that the knock-happy person they just dueled is even more bummed about the ring out than they are.
No, when I knock a player in a duel, my first thought is usually "Okay, lemme just make sure I'm not facing the edge of the stupid bubble..." and even then I watch them go sailing off into the distance crossing my fingers that they don't go too far.
Ringing someone out just doesn't feel like a wing, because the dang **** bubble is so small that I don't really even have to cleverly manuever myself to put my opponent into a position where I could ring someone out.. it's so easy to do that it happens constantly by accident.
Why do knocks get their own special victory condition for duels? Where is the "I used a really big heal so I insta-wing" victory condition? How about the "I stunned you for 5 seconds straight, and now I wing" victory condition? Where's the "I stealthed and you couldn't find me, I wing!" condition?
If ring outs are such a legitimate way to wing, then why are they only included as a victory condition in single duels? No hero game has that as a victory condition, and team duels don't have it as a victory conition either. In fact, single duels are the only place in the game where knocking someone or something a certain distance gets you a "wing".
No, ring outs are not a legitimate wing, they're just bad game design that ruins the fun of dueling for both the person using knocks and the person they're being used on. This is coming from someone on the "winging" side of the ring out issue.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Now devices the fun part, I have one device I use on all my toons mainly because i forget it is there, Inborn tenacity. Other then that none of my toon use devices save one, Blood. Reasoning behind this is i simply wanted to build the cheesiest pvp hunter toon i could think of. Why you ask? well thats simple I got tired of troll sgs tag hunting or ganging up on others in PvP. Blood is my answer to their bs and is working nicely
So pretty much there can be a need for all types of building just depends on the person and their reasoning. Who are we to tell them how to play after they spent their money.
Now onto some things I find humorous:
"I hate FF " this one really cracks me up. This normally happens after a AT joins unrestricted PvP or accepts a duel with a FF. Heres what gets me there , the game was desinged for freeform with freeform from the beginning before AT's were even thought of. FF players before F2P are what funded this game to give it what it has now. So all those cool powers your using for free etc.. is because freeform players paid for their development.
"rp noob" This one cracks me up. If you are being almost beat by an RP concept toon and you are an all out pvp toon then you have problems. It probably means that the player really knows how to build in this game and how the stats and numbers work. More then likely this person could demolish you easily but nerfs themselves by staying true to their concepts.
"quit running noob" also a favorite. It only makes since for a range toon to keep distance from a melee its called strategy. Hell melees even kite one another you jump in when your d is up then back away when they are about to hit UR etc..its not running its called using your brain.
another god one is the "you won and I lost but your the noob comment" Don't hate because you got beat say gg and ask advice or questions to see how to improve your build.
there are so many more but thats just a few favs.
....now wait just one darn second...
How can you have a problem if you're all out and being beaten by an RPPvPer?
That sounds like an insult to us. There's plenty of them who can wipe the floor with the "Elites" like MC LUVIN and Xeno... I've seen a few do it live.
was a bit of sarcasm in that!! meaning that if they are all elite pvp build and someone who is nerfing themselves by staying concept is beating them or giving them a problem then maybe they arent so elite etc..!!
Remember this well and you will be happy.
haha... I like this part the best... tired of seeing those. Seems like they change their concept, rewriting their bio just to fit the build.
I'd hardly call your post a rant... this was pretty entertaining to me. ^_^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I am a RPer and I don't like to PvP at all in fact I never do pvp but I can see an easy answer to that one: to make the bubble around the the fighters impenetrable , nobody can get in nobody can get out even if he is knocked against it with enough force to knock him in the next week. And that way no one would lose the fight "because he left the field of battle" while what he was really doing was trying to get some space to use his ranged powers and he did take one step backward too many. If someone want to end the fight there could be button that could be used to to concede the fight and the other player would be declared the winner
Ok... Since when does my gunslinger have the ability to withstand a direct punch from a behemoth?
You seem to be saying that folks should stay within their character concept, then imply that if you stay in concept you get what you deserve...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
You don't "Deserve" anything... but if you lose because the concept prevents you from being OP, then you lose because the concept prevents you from being OP. This might seem as a strange concept to the more competitive players, but I have no problem with losing. Sure my build wasn't able to beat yours, but hey.. no one's invincible. If sticking to a character concept means getting your tail kicked a few (dozen) times.. meh. Who cares? That being said, I'm not saying all conceptual builds suck. You want one that's just brutal, go fight @Mr.Bushido1991's build for Anarchy. >.> <.< hehe..
Maybe someone taught the Power Armor guy a spell to cast the aura, maybe there is an invisible person casting spells to help him/her.
You mean psyche people can't not become a ninjas? Or a ninja can't be a mutant with mind control?
A Brutish Fighter could eather have a friend that makes robots for him/her or can just buy/steal them. Heck if they are smart they can build them = )
I knew a guy once, who was always getting into fights, but he sucked really bad at fighting and always got his butt kicked. There were a variety of things people called him.. none of them involved "super heroic". Jes' sain.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
No but seriously the concept argument quite rightly can't be won on some honor principle, everyone has different standards and therefore someone is always going to be pissed off.
Back when I played I was always annoyed by teleporting dragons wrath force cascade ninjas, but it never even occured to me that my power armor person shouldn't be able to survive a punch from someone with superstrength.
Also it may be more fun to duel people who stay in powerset / theme, they'll have more weaknesses which make them easier to beat.
Basically, if you have a concept you can play it, but don't ever expect someone to conform to your standards, especially when they have to pay monthly to play.
Ok. So running around RenCen for no reason and get a team of guys challenging me to some dueling. I accept and **** goes down.
First one's a grimoire and suddenly catches me in an ice cage then proceeds to Sigil bomb. Right away, I knew this guy was using a device. I give him the benefit of the doubt.. and he took advantage of it and repeats the action. So being the sporting man I am.. Neuroelectric Pulse Generator second he gets close, lunge in, Demolish for the buff, then Roomsweeper him outta the ballpark for a double whammy of Ring Out and KO. (Gotta love it)
Second one was an Unleashed who did nothing but TP spam everywhere and again goes with the ice cage and DW spamming... what the hell guys? So to ease it for me, Unbreakable and Agressor then once gain.. Neuroelectric, lunge, Demolish, Roomsweeper.. He was REALLY pissed upon death and I got nice hatespamming..
Last one's a Behemoth as well.. this guy didn't even try to use his AT's powers and just proceeded to use Eruption, Omicron Enhanced Strength, my baby the NPG, and then Roin'esh Tunnels when he's near death... Seriously. SO I give him a special place in hell and do my typical combo.. after he's been weakened with my babies Void Possession, Echo's Stick (>:D), Talisman of Winter (beat the everliving snot outta him while he tried to get out), and (for flavor) the Terak Static Core...
now, once all of this was done and over.. I am hatespammed by EVERYONE of them because I used devices and was a "cheater"
...................
Place them on ignore and walk away, Change you name, move to another state, and become a teacher.
Dr. DOOM user of both high technology and magic also Deaths head a robot created useing magic and technology.
Psylock mutant ninja telipath also possibly spiral transdimensional alien ninja magic person
Lets see smart brutish characters
Bane (big tuff but not compleatly stupid sure he could use a machine), BannerHULK all teh smarts of bruce banner and a good chunk of teh Hulks strength, She Hulk lawyer who can bench press a truck. Warhammer space marines
and thats before we get into battle suits powers by ting hyper inteligent hamsters or Robots that just like to smash
so yea just pointing out just cause its not your idea of a concept don't right it off as concept braking
Why not a truck driver?
And drive one of these:
I've been playing a lot of Twisted Metal lately on the PS3. If there's any PVP game I find hella fun, it's that one.
What I'm saying is Brutish as in background.. not their fighting style. Hundred percent sure that no Viking barbarian could learn to create healing drones like that.
As for the ninja, same thing as above. We're talking the kind normally portrayed in film/tv (mention you-know-who.. I'll smack you with a tuna) Not a mutant or alien or extradimensional person.
The thing about theme is that the player in question who is playing the character has last say on theme. There's always some wonky explanation you can use to explain anything... sure, in the real world no barbarian could learn to create healing drones, but he would also have been dead for about two thousand years and a corpse sitting in the ground doesn't make for much fun (unless you're a certain Egyptian cat goddess). Here in comic book world there have been themes that were published that were crazier and less realistic than a barbarian with a pair of healing drones that have been programmed to follow him around.
Yes, it's cheesy to say "My theme is Cyclops!" and then basically play Cyclops... if he also had Wolverine's regeneration, Night Crawler's teleport, and the ability to sprout glowing angelic wings and fly around.
That being said, saying "Oh, this is just a rp concept build I beat you with" doesn't really mean much if we all know that the person who says it is really just full of it. They don't really need to bother justifying their concept if it's obvious that they're using a very-slightly-modified cookie cutter build, because they're not fooling anyone ( except maybe themselves ).
One thing I think should be agreed upon... the middle of rencen isn't really a good place to be roleplaying anyway.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I have not pvp'd in CO. I am not going to. I don't plan, I don't care too. I don't know what powers are broken in pvp, in either good or bad ways What I do know, is pvp from City of Heroes. And the people who DID pvp there.
I read your Rant. I actually did not find it half as 'ranty' as I was expecting. To repeat what uoi saod..I know you were not claiming to be a vet..but you DO claim to know most of the tricks. SO therefore..let me say what I see as your biggest problem.
To do it..a quote, from YOU.
"And the ones who complain knock-outs aren't a win... seriously? In my book, it is. A victory constitutes you had bested them in some aspect.. the people who knocked you out obviously bested you by exploiting the low knock resistance you have. Get over it."
That is your, and nearly EVERY single pvper that I have seen, major problem. Replace the term knock outs, in what you said, with ANY of the lil problems you have..and repeat it back to yourself. DO it again, louder. See how annoying it is?
Someone using tp to run away so he doesnt die, giving time to heal? Oh, you know, HE says it is a valid tactic so..you know..get over it. The guy using Ooze? Exploiting the power to get away. Get over that too.
Saw exactly the same thing in City. I do not claim to know how matches work here but having seen at least a few duels, I can see that they are, if anything, even MORE 'jump around like bunnies on smack to evade and spam ranged powers' type fights. I am not saying anything at all about the mechanics..they are what they are.
If you enter a duel (or whatever) with someone and neglect to mention ANY powers/items/combos that you dont like or wont be using..how can you ***** about it after? Are you telling the person not to use Ooze before said oozer does it? Oh maybe you thought he was actually a ninja with mental powers in real life..
If it is zone pvp (no idea if there IS) then..you have no grounds for complaint..again. ANd if you duel in a zone and someone does something you dislike..again..your fault for dueling in a zone!
You don't like RP pvp'rs? Here..a utterly MAD notion. Do not fight them? Wow, amazing right? If they whip some power out to insta win..yeah ok..just shows they aren't very creative right?
Again..why are you fighting these people again? Did you not mention before the duel 'Oh BTW guy, you can;t use any super magic powers and nuke me, ok?'
And for the record..
"Since when was a power armor soldier able to have a magical aura? Since when did ninjas learn mind control? Since when did a brutish fighter learn to heal themselves using machines?"
The Power Armour soldier, in addition to his strong suit, has a family heirloom passed down from his father, that provides a aura of mystic..stuff..
The ninja way is to perfect the body, which starts with control over the mind. His own mind, and others..
The brute..in addition to being stacks of muscle and sinew, he further augmented his power with technological skin grafts, adding power and regeneration..
Woah, see that. All explained, and I thought about it for a total of 15 seconds.
Do forgive me if all that sounded overly aggressive..but trust me..if the PVP vets in CO are 20% similar to the ones in City, you do not want to be one of them (and it really sounds like they are, from the last section of your thread).
Basically people shouldn't QQ when they lose, and about the concept thing, it looked like more of a comment about certain players who almost swear that their build is a concept when it's really not. It isn't necessarily a complaint about these players, and there's no information given there on how to tell and he never said he gave any. I found it quite amusing and it's a pretty accurate picture of some of the players in this game but by no means all-inclusive, and he never said it is.
*gives Lucy a giant cookie*
*eats* wait, were those hash cookies? *_*
Why you keep exploding cats? >_>
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
you DO know Shadow Destroyer (your current icon btw) Has a Magical power armor? hurr durr...
On a serious note what makes you able to justify someones theme? They can choose what powers they want and I do not find it a crime to make a bio based on your build. Its like being 8.
"You can't have that power! You have super strength you can't have magic too! I am telling on yo- car...car..CAR..WAIT THERE IS A CAR GUYS.....No you are stupid!"
You cannot tell someone they can't use a power because it is out of character.
I can make a grondling that is dressed as a clown that uses magic. F*ck the police I do what I want.
Knockouts are not a win. Thats just you knocking them really far because their build does not have resistance.
(That is not a flaw or them being stupid thats a side effect of some builds get over it)
I have a might build and I always re start the fight if I ring out as I want to WIN not:
"Nuh uh! you touched the ground thats lava! your dead now! I am telling mom!...CAR. CAR GUYS OUT OF THE ROAD"
I can't prove to my dog that the earth is round... because they can't understand what I'm saying. At least on their part it's not intentional.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
See you know what I'm talking about. ^_~
At this point, nobody cares what you're talking about. We all just want you to hush child.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
I don't know who you are, but I like you already. :biggrin:
Whilst everyone has put up reasonable counter arguments as to why a Behemoth would be in possession of a magical aura etc. It doesnt combat the simple fact that franken builds are out there and generally out do concept builds.
As a 100% theme builder I know the feeling of loosing to a franken build (a build without any discernable theme, and by theme, you all know what I mean, no need to play difficult).
For example: Theme wise, an Impulse -shouldnt- really have an issue taking hits from a melee blader, then again you have to take into account a million and one variables as to their concept and what their blade/self is meant to be able to do. In theory, force fields should stop damage and provide lasting protection..in practice...not so much, but that's by the by.
As a consistant theme builder who occasionally tries her hand in PvP, I'm no stranger to the epic faceplant maneouver, everyone knows this.
Most PvP Builds I have seen are designed to win, inflict maximum amount of damage whilst staying relatively well supported by their own healing abilities, with no concept in mind other than (as I was once famously told) "To beat concept RP babies like you LOL"...that attitude as charming as it was, wasnt charming enough to keep me PvPing..
Back to the OP...if there were more real defined concept builds out there, I reckon PvP would be more fun for everyone, not just franken builds.
It's always been a wonder to me not to have seen many PvPer with concept builds, and almost everyone running around with AoPM etc. Then I joined a PvP match and found out why lol.:biggrin:
My Characters on PRIMUS
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__________________________
PvP is about having fun, sure, but the purpose of it is for competitive gaming. I.E. to win, not lose. So, naturally, people min/max their builds to survive, heal, and deal damage while mitigating damage that is inflicted. What's so wrong with that, exactly?
Also, maybe theme builders refuse to see the variety that does exist in the builds PvPers use. I might see 2 people using the same build, but then I will see a half dozen other builds doing just as well but are still completely different from one another. Sure, maybe that does not constitute a "theme" to you, but it does constitute a variety.
Have you considered min/maxing a lvl 40 alt for the sole purpose of Hero Games? You might be less jaded if you performed better in said environment.
*EDIT: I realize not every theme builder is an RPer, so I do apologize for my use of words. ;-)
BE THE HERO YOU WANT TO BE.
Theme building is the game, all parts of it. Has nothing to do with rp, or pve vs pvp. The very concept of the game is that players build theme builds.
The irony is, the reason that "frankenbuilds" are so popular in pvp, is because our noble overlords have completely disregarded the implications their changes to the game had on the pvp dynamic.
To put it bluntly... theme builds are supposed to work in all parts of the game; the reason that theme builds don't work in pvp, is because pvp is barely even a part of the game anymore.
Of course, we all know that if the frankenbuilders decided to play along, we could have a theme-pvp paradise... but we all know that one guy who wouldn't play along and who would go around ruining the paradise...and we all know that "that guy" is actually a bunch of people... because it actually happened, and here we are.
Disclaimer: Smoochan loves pvp and wishes the devs would get a fire under their butt for improving power balance so there could be a greater vareity of builds allowing the hero games to cater to and provide fun times for a larger audience.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
However, in PvP - BE COMPETITIVE with the powers given to us by Cryptic!
Now you sound jaded
I think you missed my point, although you only quoted a third of my response... Maybe that is as far as you read?
Pure fallacy. Theme builds can work very well in pvp; you just have to build a good one and use it well.
heh Obviously they do, or they wouldn't have to silence me for making fun of their lame tactics and disinfo.
Now, I know all about copy builds and so forth. I know and can recognize builds which has no theme. However, that said, it does not necessarily mean a franken build has no theme. Also, it is not about playing difficult. Some people come up with a build first and then create a background story for their character. Some may have a complete story for their toons in their mind but have not put it down. I know some players blatantly ignore any concept or theme but that is not to say that all franken builds are not concept toons.
It seems your definition of concept or thematic toons are very restrictive almost to the extent of ATs. That imho (you may totally disagree) is far too boring. After a while, there are only those few character classes. Freeform is meant for players to pick and choose powers to build the synergy and character they want. As I emphasize before, the diversity by nature inherently prevents a perfect balance from ever taking place and the higher the level, the greater the disparity will become. In the past, due to the reduced damage, hp etc, it created a false semblance of balance when actually there were still certain power combinations and synergy which outperformed others be it in pvp or pve. As Malware puts it, PvP is competitive in nature at the highest end. People come to the table with their biggest and longest guns (heehee). However casual PvP and duels can still exist.
Not unless you have 9 friends.. and as it sounds there may not even be 9 players in a particular level.. much less friends in-game at the same time as u
No matter what.. promise me you wont start listening to Ubitri