A Wild Executive Producer Appears

spyralpegacyon
spyralpegacyon Posts: 383 Arc User
edited January 2013 in Champions Online Discussion
Haven't seen TT or anyone else link this yet:

Eliot at Massively gets in a few questions with Brad S.

A lot of happy talk, nothing committal, but he did give a shoutout to the CoX channel and said they'd love to do the Foundry and Dark Champions.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • xcaligax
    xcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Interesting article. I'd love it if they did somehow implement Dark Champion's Hudson City and what not. Right now we're at a standstill. Atleast we're aware that Cryptic is talking about the recent CoH shut down and what not.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Haven't seen TT or anyone else link this yet:

    Eliot at Massively gets in a few questions with Brad S.

    A lot of happy talk, nothing committal, but he did give a shoutout to the CoX channel and said they'd love to do the Foundry and Dark Champions.

    What a joke of an interview.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • flyingfinn
    flyingfinn Posts: 8,382 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    they'd love to do the Foundry and Dark Champions.

    So friggin' do it. DO IT.
    But we know, it will never happen.

    How about stepping in the Actual Game Forum, (Yea, it's a scary place...) and say what you are actually gonna do.
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
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  • spyralpegacyon
    spyralpegacyon Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    flyingfinn wrote: »
    So friggin' do it. DO IT.
    But we know, it will never happen.

    Someone has to justify it to the bean counters first.
    tumblr_moni7tHVoq1rzu2xzo1_500.gif
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    OP thanks for posting that...even though it made me cring and get angry.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • pion01
    pion01 Posts: 758 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    lawlz.

    bull.

    "Hey this stuff worked for CoH, and the players want it, any plans?"

    "nah."


    So, what does "we've already got our major releases blocked out for the near future" mean? Cuz in those words I see nothing.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pion01 wrote: »
    lawlz.

    bull.

    "Hey this stuff worked for CoH, and the players want it, any plans?"

    "nah."


    So, what does "we've already got our major releases blocked out for the near future" mean? Cuz in those words I see nothing.

    Block 1 [Jan-March] Temp mission and one free costume piece.

    [rest of year] Alerts and nothing worthwhile but more temp stuff that will trick our player base into thinking we care about the game.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • gamehobo
    gamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Fire Brad. Corporate business is not hugs and kisses and lollipops.

    If he's not doing a good job, FIRE HIM. The bar must be exceptionally low for your expectations of an "Executive Producer" if he produces nothing but recolored vehicle in 6 months
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    Fire Brad. Corporate business is not hugs and kisses and lollipops.

    If he's not doing a good job, FIRE HIM. The bar must be exceptionally low for your expectations of an "Executive Producer" if he produces nothing but recolored vehicle in 6 months

    No matter how angry I have ever been I have never asked for someone to lose thier job...till now.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • gingervitos
    gingervitos Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    Fire Brad. Corporate business is not hugs and kisses and lollipops.

    If he's not doing a good job, FIRE HIM. The bar must be exceptionally low for your expectations of an "Executive Producer" if he produces nothing but recolored vehicle in 6 months

    100% classic Bezzy rage. Also I agree.

    Git Gud M8!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
  • visionstorm01
    visionstorm01 Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pion01 wrote: »
    So, what does "we've already got our major releases blocked out for the near future" mean? Cuz in those words I see nothing.

    It means that they have no plans for anything, but since the question came up in an interview for a MMO blog and its something people have been whining about for ages he essentially said "we've kicked the idea around the office" to give a possitive spin on the fact that they have no actual plans to actually do it and no clue what the game's actual direction is going to be.

    Also, they've specifically said they didn't want to do Dark Champions before when they mention their plans for the mythic "dark and gritty but not so dark and gritty city" zone that never came to happen. Now they're saying they've "kicked around the idea" to do it. So which one is it? And when are they going to get around actually doing it? Hell, when are they even going to make up their mind about what they want or don't want for the game?

    In other words, nothing he said in that interview meant absolutely anything and all he was doing was giving lip service to common player concerns.
    ____________________________
  • vikaernes
    vikaernes Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    We'd love to include just about all of those. User-generated content is something we love here, and we've kicked around the idea of Dark Champions ?- that was a pen 'n' paper sourcebook for antiheroes and dark vigilantes. But both of those are large projects, and we've already got our major releases blocked out for the near future. A number of players are asking the same question, though, so it's something that's on our radar.

    What ****ing radar?
  • gingervitos
    gingervitos Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    vikaernes wrote: »
    What ****ing radar?

    The things we will never be doing radar of course.

    Git Gud M8!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Cause I'm worth it. Playing since 2009.
  • biffsmackwell
    biffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited January 2013
    vikaernes wrote: »
    What ****ing radar?

    Radar-O-Reilly-m-a-s-h-14056552-422-280.jpg
    biffsig.jpg
  • danebang
    danebang Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    This gives me a bit of hope for the game then. I don't understand the rage here though regarding UGC and interview in general. It seemed like good news to me.

    From what I understood, he basically said: A lot of players have asked us about it, we're interested, but as of right now, we're behind on our own ****.

    I think the issue is that they had a lot planned to come out of the pipeline, but being understaffed has put them really behind schedule. I think once they release what they feel needs to be put out there, they'll start working with us regarding UGC. But since we have no idea how far they're behind or how much they plan to release, it could easily be another year before the Foundry is something they'd want to implement.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    danebang wrote: »
    This gives me a bit of hope for the game then. I don't understand the rage here though regarding UGC and interview in general. It seemed like good news to me.

    From what I understood, he basically said: A lot of players have asked us about it, we're interested, but as of right now, we're behind on our own ****.

    I think the issue is that they had a lot planned to come out of the pipeline, but being understaffed has put them really behind schedule. I think once they release what they feel needs to be put out there, they'll start working with us regarding UGC. But since we have no idea how far they're behind or how much they plan to release, it could easily be another year before the Foundry is something they'd want to implement.

    because it is the same crap we have heard for years now.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • visionstorm01
    visionstorm01 Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    danebang wrote: »
    This gives me a bit of hope for the game then. I don't understand the rage here though regarding UGC and interview in general. It seemed like good news to me.

    From what I understood, he basically said: A lot of players have asked us about it, we're interested, but as of right now, we're behind on our own ****.

    I think the issue is that they had a lot planned to come out of the pipeline, but being understaffed has put them really behind schedule. I think once they release what they feel needs to be put out there, they'll start working with us regarding UGC. But since we have no idea how far they're behind or how much they plan to release, it could easily be another year before the Foundry is something they'd want to implement.

    Your join date is showing.

    (we've heard crap like this for years now and know it to mean nothing from past experience. That's where all the rage comes from)
    ____________________________
  • gamehobo
    gamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The "haven't had enough time/help" excuse is bull. Don't make a deliverable that you can't keep up with.. period. That's business.

    If you're not getting what you need from your people, get better people. You have a responsibility to shareholders and patrons. And you've failed and the buck stops with you.

    - -

    If he has used this 6 months for something massive and profit inducing then he'll have redeemed himself..

    Anyone who believes he has.. I have a bridge i'd like to sell you
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    The "haven't had enough time/help" excuse is bull. Don't make a deliverable that you can't keep up with.. period. That's business.

    If you're not getting what you need from your people, get better people. You have a responsibility to shareholders and patrons. And you've failed and the buck stops with you.

    - -

    If he has used this 6 months for something massive and profit inducing then he'll have redeemed himself..

    Anyone who believes he has.. I have a bridge i'd like to sell you

    Stokman needs to go.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • danebang
    danebang Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    (we've heard crap like this for years now and know it to mean nothing from past experience. That's where all the rage comes from)

    Right, but CoX was shut down officially less than 2 months ago. That's kinda what makes now different from "years" especially since they flat out acknowledged increased subscribers because of it. Then again, I'm optimistic.

    And judging from the other threads where others are trying to track down the devs, it does seem like the conclusion is that the staff is seriously short a few people compared to other MMO's.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    danebang wrote: »
    Right, but CoX was shut down officially less than 2 months ago. That's kinda what makes now different from "years" especially since they flat out acknowledged increased subscribers because of it. Then again, I'm optimistic.

    And judging from the other threads where others are trying to track down the devs, it does seem like the conclusion is that the staff is seriously short a few people compared to other MMO's.

    Your new and optimistic, you'll soon learn that doesnt last long here as this game staff likes to talk big and not deliver, and we are expected to put up and accept it over and over.

    Though some optimism is nice to see :D
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • pion01
    pion01 Posts: 758 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bwdares wrote: »
    Though some optimism is nice to see :D

    I disagree. Some optimism is why Cryptic manages to keep pulling the same bull**** year after year.
  • khoraxgator
    khoraxgator Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, being a player since launch, I can safely say that this game stopped having major development after the changes to Westside. Even after launch, Canada is still largely broken and in need of some serious love. The entire game, at this point, needs tweaks and an overhaul, there are a number of systems that were implemented then dropped, powersets that are under and over-powered, costume pieces that are buggy and a slew of other issues.

    On top of this, there hasn't been ANY -real- meat and potatoes additions to the game. There are -no- new areas since Vibora Bay. This is the -most- troubling bit of information. A game that cares about its future puts stock into it. They build and develop new areas to keep player interest and to ensure that players are satisfied. Vehicles and Alerts were a band-aid, but the game is hemmoraging and the surgeons are nowhere to be seen.

    I wouldn't give CO long after NWO comes out. It seems between that game and STO, it's very clear where PWE has placed their priorities, and their employees.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    pion01 wrote: »


    I disagree. Some optimism is why Cryptic manages to keep pulling the same bull**** year after year.

    Agreed...screw optimism, it is overrated.

    Current course, there will be no Christmas event cause CO wont be around.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • crypticarmsman
    crypticarmsman Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Unfortunately, the Champions Executive Producer has to work with the resources (Dev team, budget, etc.) he's given by PWE/Cryptic upper management. For whatever reason, it appears that upper management doesmn't seem to be giving the EP a lot of these resources; and HASN'T for some time.

    Yes, I sure there's A LOT he'd like to do in/for CO - but he just isn't getting support from the upper management; and I honestly don't see that changing for CO.

    Also, if you read the reader comments to that Massively interview; some seem to believe Crypotic always abandons existing games for their new 'shiney' (in this case 'NeverWinter'); uyet, that also DOESN'T seem tyo be the case. Why do I say that?

    Star Trek Online (Cryptic's other online MMO) has seen it's Dev team INCREASE (it was as low as 20 during the Atari selloff days - was grown to 40 soon after the PWE aquisition and F2P launch; and it their latest STO 'Ask Cryptic' the quote from Daniel Stahl was that STO's Dev team is now at 50 - and still growing.

    In the past year, where CO has seen:

    - a bunch of cut and paste 'Alerts';

    - a couple of events (one with was aborted VERY EARLY due to bugs, and deemed 'unfixable' and removed) with small/limited cutscenes with VO

    - a couple of re-skinned ATs

    - Player vehicles (which to a degree have been poorly implemented...)

    In that same year, STO:

    - Launched F2P (with a graphics engine update)

    - Had a new 5 episode FE series with a number of new systems, a new social zone (Bajor); and a bunch of cutscenes with a lot of VO.

    - Had a new Anniversary event (which gave a free ship); and had a new zone (Utopia Planita) live for the duration of the Anniversary event.

    - Had a number of event missions that have been repeated occasionally.

    - In Season 6 added a 'Starbase System' (Fleet/Guild housing that grats Fleet members access to more items/gear/ships as they progress Starbase Tiers.)

    In Season 7:

    - added another item to the Fleet Starbase system (New Romulas Embassy) that grants more access to items/gear as Fleet Members progress in Embassy tiers)

    - Added a new 'Reputation System' with two starting reupations to advance in:

    i) Omega Force - Anti-Borg Taskforce (they revamped the STF contert and added a new Ground and Space STF too)

    ii) New Romulas - Help some Romulans establish a new homeworld.

    - For the Romulas Reputation system, they added:

    - A completely new Sector Block (17 Star Systems) with a new patrol mechanic (and new patrol content which is much better than previous patrol, content) ; a new Tholian Red Alert, and a new Radiation scan nini-game.

    - A new Planet 'New Romulas' (and the largest ground based planet zone to date) - as large (maybe larger) as Vibora Bay. It has cutscenes that introduce and set up the storyline which play on your first visit; and new mission content and daily missions that unlock as you advance in Romulan reputation.

    - Also, as you advance Romulan Rep at each new Tier (2 - 5); you get a cutscene (with VO) that advances the New Romulas story.

    - They have also announced a new Anniversary mission for the STO 3 year anniversary that will feature TNG Star Trek cast member Denise Crosby reprising her role as 'Sela' (and possibly 'Tasha Yar' as it will involve time travel and the Ambassador Class ship from the TNG episode 'Yesterday's Enterprise' is rumors are true.)

    - There's also been a lot of new starships and uniforms added added; and the STO Foundry functionality has been expanded (although not as much or as fast as it's users would like - BUT, even it has seen expansion.)
    ^^^^

    So yeah, my point? Cryptic DOESN'T appear to be abandoning Star Trek Online for their new shiney - 'NeverWinter'. (And in fact the STO Devs have stated that once the NeverWinter Fouindry is up and running, they'll port new features from it into the STO Foundry.)

    Compare that with the fact that CO has (after months of basically tweaking vehicles and adding one mission "Until Carrier Defense" for vehicles) now just annouced what amounts to a limited 'Comic Series' style event (we haven't seen a new Comic Series in CO since November 2011) - with a new mission every week or so for a few weeks until the 'Mega-Event' -- BUT, after that, all this limited new content goes away. Yes, our CM states the CO Dev team is now committed to bringing the limited Event content back on a rotating basis (like the Bloodmoon event that was/is supposed to occur EVERY month; but we all know how reliable that's been in CO.)

    Also interesting that the CO Executive Producer does an interview on a MMO gaming site; and that's not even linked to the front page of the CO site. Further, he says basically the same thing he said 6+ months ago with regard to new content, and or new systems (like the Foundry.)

    STO got a new Fleet advancement/housing system (and a WHOLE slew of other things) - yet CO can't even get a new Hideout environment - OR any updates/fixes/expansion of the Nemisis creation system (which players have been asking for since before PWE acquired Cryptic). I also unfortunately think that (unless CO upper management support increases and we see more budget/Dev resources allotted for CO) we'll NEVER see the Foundry in CO <--- We'll just continue to hear: "We'd LOVE tom add th Foundry to CO..."

    And again, let me be clear that I actually DO NOT blame the CO Executive Producer, or the members of the Dev team assigned to work on CO. I HONESTLY believe they are working hard, and are dedicated to doing what they can for CO. They just don't have/aren't getting a lot of resources from PWE/Cryptic upper management (and their are probably a number of reasons we'll never know as to why this is - but in the end it appears that management doesn't see a good ROI for resources committed to CO development. ATM.)

    This is also probably a main reason why we don't see a lot of direct communication from the CO EP or Dev team as I don't think they feel news like:

    "Hey PWE/Cryptic is allowing us to remain on-line another month...so, no sunset announcement yet..."

    ...is news the CO playerbase would find heartening; (and honestly, to me that appears the situation CO is in -- if PWE wants to see that assessment change; I think the playerbase needs more than token communication via press announcements - and if there is an honest plan for CO's continued development and expansion for the next year, the playerbase needs to hear some of it fro,m the horse's mouth.)

    Edited to add: Well, scratch one conspiracy theory of mine as they DID finally put a link to the Massively article on the CO main page. That said, I still stand behind the other parts of my original post.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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    PWE Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • gamehobo
    gamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    If you don't blame the person at the top of the failure then who is responsible? PWE perhaps but i doubt Brad's Paycheck was affected for 6 months of no work.

    I could go back 6 months and find an almost identical "We would like to" and "Would be great" article I'm sure.

    6 months, same sad song. You're Fired.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    of course they are not adandoning STO, they dont own the IP for that, they answer to somebody, so they have to upkeep and ad stuff to it.

    Here they could careless, they own the CO IP, so they dont answer to anyone. Stokman has proven to be ineffective, Even if he cant get money from the aboves there is a 30+ thread saying that Players would donate money for a foundry.

    If Stokman cant get higher ups to go for that-money from an outside source that neither Cryptic nor PWE has to fund, then we need someone who can. That simple.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • danebang
    danebang Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    And again, let me be clear that I actually DO NOT blame the CO Executive Producer, or the members of the Dev team assigned to work on CO. I HONESTLY believe they are working hard, and are dedicated to doing what they can for CO. They just don't have/aren't getting a lot of resources from PWE/Cryptic upper management (and their are probably a number of reasons we'll never know as to why this is - but in the end it appears that management doesn't see a good ROI for resources committed to CO development. ATM.)

    This is exactly how I feel. I haven't been here too long but in the few months I've been playing there was: Nighthawk's event, the Mega-D invasion, Halloween event, introduction of vehicles (meh), several new alerts, the Winter/Holiday event - and now a new event this week with plans for a new adventure pack release every 2 weeks. This tells me that at least they have people working actively to keep the game fresh - it just doesn't enjoy the same giant staff as other MMO's.

    I can understand how the core players are still upset as a lot of fundamentals have yet to be fixed. But as someone migrating from CoH they're keeping the game flashy enough to draw others in. It's smart, and maybe if more subscribers show up perhaps the team will get the resources they need to start fixing what needs to be fixed while also pushing out new content.

    If crying your eyes out about how disappointed you are in the forums hasn't worked to fix the game these past few years I highly doubt more whining is gonna get us anywhere.
  • spyralpegacyon
    spyralpegacyon Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bwdares wrote: »
    of course they are not adandoning STO, they dont own the IP for that, they answer to somebody, so they have to upkeep and ad stuff to it.

    Here they could careless, they own the CO IP, so they dont answer to anyone. Stokman has proven to be ineffective, Even if he cant get money from the aboves there is a 30+ thread saying that Players would donate money for a foundry.

    If Stokman cant get higher ups to go for that-money from an outside source that neither Cryptic nor PWE has to fund, then we need someone who can. That simple.

    STO is in a profitable niche that makes money hand over fist.

    We aren't.
    tumblr_moni7tHVoq1rzu2xzo1_500.gif
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    danebang wrote: »
    This is exactly how I feel. I haven't been here too long but in the few months I've been playing there was: Nighthawk's event, the Mega-D invasion, Halloween event, introduction of vehicles (meh), several new alerts, the Winter/Holiday event - and now a new event this week with plans for a new adventure pack release every 2 weeks. This tells me that at least they have people working actively to keep the game fresh - it just doesn't enjoy the same giant staff as other MMO's.

    I can understand how the core players are still upset as a lot of fundamentals have yet to be fixed. But as someone migrating from CoH they're keeping the game flashy enough to draw others in. It's smart, and maybe if more subscribers show up perhaps the team will get the resources they need to start fixing what needs to be fixed while also pushing out new content.

    If crying your eyes out about how disappointed you are in the forums hasn't worked to fix the game these past few years I highly doubt more whining is gonna get us anywhere.

    Can you link where they said we would get an adventure pack every 2 weeks? Last I heard there are no more adventure packs.

    and supporting Cryptic sure as hell hasn't gotten us anywhere either. So cry your eyes out people. Because it really doesnt matter what we do.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Oh this: http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=2824211&postcount=1
    He said Adventures, not Adventure packs, those are two completely differant things all together.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • gamehobo
    gamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    danebang wrote: »
    If crying your eyes out about how disappointed you are in the forums hasn't worked to fix the game these past few years I highly doubt more whining is gonna get us anywhere.

    Neither is your cheerleading. Players (consumers) are obviously not a factor AT ALL in the business model of Champions Online

    The business model is failing to attract new consumers and failing to keep current consumers.. Who is at fault if not the person at the helm?
  • spyralpegacyon
    spyralpegacyon Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    The business model is failing to attract new consumers and failing to keep current consumers.. Who is at fault if not the person at the helm?

    PWE/Cryptic not wanting to throw good money after a bad niche market?
    tumblr_moni7tHVoq1rzu2xzo1_500.gif
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    danebang wrote: »
    If crying your eyes out about how disappointed you are in the forums hasn't worked to fix the game these past few years I highly doubt more whining is gonna get us anywhere.
    gamehobo wrote: »
    Neither is your cheerleading. Players (consumers) are obviously not a factor AT ALL in the business model of Champions Online

    Is this the point where we all realize how pointless this all is and we all just stfu and the forums become a place where people actually just have discussions with each other about in-game stuff rather than at-game stuff?




    nope-ponny-Favim.com-464376_large.gif

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • kojirohellfire
    kojirohellfire Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    A game cannot become vibrant with repeated promises of rainbows and unicorn farts.
  • haleakala
    haleakala Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    smoochan wrote: »
    Is this the point where we all realize how pointless this all is and we all just stfu and the forums become a place where people actually just have discussions with each other about in-game stuff rather than at-game stuff?

    nope-ponny-Favim.com-464376_large.gif

    My breath, I will not be holding.
    _________________________________________________

    I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.

    Willie Nelson


    T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
    Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
  • caycepollard
    caycepollard Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    smoochan wrote: »




    Is this the point where we all realize how pointless this all is and we all just stfu and the forums become a place where people actually just have discussions with each other about in-game stuff rather than at-game stuff?

    Maybe we need some "in-game stuff" to talk about first? We could talk about PVP builds.. Er, nope. Or maybe the power-set rebalancing...er.. Nevermind. I'll just quit while i'm.. wherever I am.:biggrin:
  • jennymachx
    jennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I never realized it before, but as indicated by others the very fact that the Champions license is owned by Cryptic could be a good reason why they have managed to get away with giving us scraps of content and not worry about the backlash when they give us canned or absent responses and provide lousy customer support. The Star Trek and Neverwinter (D&D) licenses aren't owned by Cryptic so it makes sense that the pressure is on them to deliver in order to continue having the right to use those licenses. Star Trek and D&D are hugely popular franchises compared to Champions and surely more valuable profit-wise.

    So yeah, we're at the bottom of the priority list, an afterthought and as long as they get a decent revenue from CO's cash shop, there's no problem allowing things to stagnate. Until Cryptic gives me an indication that the opposite is true, I'm going to maintain that view.

    As for the interview article? I'm seeing nothing but hot air and empty promises. Heck, half of it has nothing to do with CO at all but some CoX-inspired project handled by former CoX players.
  • wesleytansg
    wesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The interview indeed carries no real commitment and is actually quite a bad example of a political speech. At least try to make the nothing seems like something.

    Anyway, this is my take on things:

    - We all want fresh and substantial content to be added
    - Such content will have a lifespan of 2 weeks? before they get stale unless it is something like the foundry or AI generated zones maps with random elements
    - There does not seem enough resources are being given to the game
    - There are many vets who are bitter and disappointed with empty promises
    - Some vets are staying on but complaining and despite all said is still clinging to a sliver of hope that something may actually change (which is why they still "whine" in forum)
    - These vets are unwilling to fork out money for the shinies which is supposed to be a major revenue churner
    - These vets "claims" they will pay for solid content (how much I do not know)
    - PWE bought over Cryptic (shows which model is profitable)
    - There are new players who are liking the games and do no have the same views as the vets because all the activities so far are fresh to them
    - PWE wants to earn money
    - Other games owned by PWE is receiving more resources and attention
    - PWE owns the IP for CO and does not have external pressure
    - Part of CO revenue MAY be funneled for other project developments

    From how I see it, the only way for there to be any real improvement to the quality of the game at this point, is if the company can be convinced of significant profit if they so choose to invest more resources in CO. I do not have either the data on the playerbase or revenue from CO and other PWE games. However, if TT can help with bridging the communication between the customers and the higher management then it may be possible to establish what kind of turn over and player numbers is required to allow this game to flourish. For example, what kind of resources will be required for a foundry? What is the amount that players need to be spending on and how many players should there be in the game to justify such developments. I understand that the F2P model emphasize alot on capitalising on the microtransactions of a very mobile customer-base. However, if this customer base can be enticed to stay on and spend, this will be even better. A large pool of LTSer can be even more profiting.

    At the same time, the existing players can then chip in, in terms of purchases and recruiting more players. Word of mouth can sometimes be a very powerful form of marketing but certainly not with the current state of affairs. The existing players' response can either be a spiral upwards or downwards. If it keeps spiralling down, we may lose our game entirely. While honest and truthful feedback is necessary, too much negativity will even drive away what remains of the vets and discourage new players from joining or staying.
  • agentnx5
    agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Wesleytansg makes good observations. The rest of you should read them a bit closer and think.
  • jennymachx
    jennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    Wesleytansg makes good observations. The rest of you should read them a bit closer and think.

    Are you suggesting that the "rest of us" haven't made the same observations before?
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The interview indeed carries no real commitment and is actually quite a bad example of a political speech. At least try to make the nothing seems like something.

    Anyway, this is my take on things:

    - We all want fresh and substantial content to be added
    - Such content will have a lifespan of 2 weeks? before they get stale unless it is something like the foundry or AI generated zones maps with random elements
    - There does not seem enough resources are being given to the game
    - There are many vets who are bitter and disappointed with empty promises
    - Some vets are staying on but complaining and despite all said is still clinging to a sliver of hope that something may actually change (which is why they still "whine" in forum)
    - These vets are unwilling to fork out money for the shinies which is supposed to be a major revenue churner
    - These vets "claims" they will pay for solid content (how much I do not know)
    - PWE bought over Cryptic (shows which model is profitable)
    - There are new players who are liking the games and do no have the same views as the vets because all the activities so far are fresh to them
    - PWE wants to earn money
    - Other games owned by PWE is receiving more resources and attention
    - PWE owns the IP for CO and does not have external pressure
    - Part of CO revenue MAY be funneled for other project developments

    From how I see it, the only way for there to be any real improvement to the quality of the game at this point, is if the company can be convinced of significant profit if they so choose to invest more resources in CO. I do not have either the data on the playerbase or revenue from CO and other PWE games. However, if TT can help with bridging the communication between the customers and the higher management then it may be possible to establish what kind of turn over and player numbers is required to allow this game to flourish. For example, what kind of resources will be required for a foundry? What is the amount that players need to be spending on and how many players should there be in the game to justify such developments. I understand that the F2P model emphasize alot on capitalising on the microtransactions of a very mobile customer-base. However, if this customer base can be enticed to stay on and spend, this will be even better. A large pool of LTSer can be even more profiting.

    At the same time, the existing players can then chip in, in terms of purchases and recruiting more players. Word of mouth can sometimes be a very powerful form of marketing but certainly not with the current state of affairs. The existing players' response can either be a spiral upwards or downwards. If it keeps spiralling down, we may lose our game entirely. While honest and truthful feedback is necessary, too much negativity will even drive away what remains of the vets and discourage new players from joining or staying.

    Many are worried (including myself) that any money we put in goes straight to NWO, by how things have been going that seems likely. That is why the kickstarter thread was started. It is really the only way for us to get a gaurentee that the money we put forth will go to this game, because there is a written agreement when you start one of those, for where the money goes. I think that there is no trust that any money we put forth for our game at this time does not go into our game. That belief is what keep me from spending a dime here.

    Until someone within the Dev staff can gaurentee that money spent here will go back into this game I will not spend a single dime anymore. I simply am tired of this game being passed over. I refuse to pay for a game I now have no intention to play, and could frankly careless how anyone else feels about that as it is my choice.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • underchicken
    underchicken Posts: 259 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Sooo....yeah. If the point to posting this article was to get me mildly excited about an up and coming rival superhero mmo being worked on with a development team that came together solely for the love of CoX and its community.... well then, SUCCESS!

    I mean, did you guys see some of that concept art. Some really cool ideas they have, me likey.

    So even if CO never comes out of it's slump, hopefully we'll still have a way of getting our hero fix. And that's the best news I've seen posted on the CO forums in ages.:tongue:
  • wesleytansg
    wesleytansg Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bwdares wrote: »
    Many are worried (including myself) that any money we put in goes straight to NWO, by how things have been going that seems likely. That is why the kickstarter thread was started. It is really the only way for us to get a gaurentee that the money we put forth will go to this game, because there is a written agreement when you start one of those, for where the money goes. I think that there is no trust that any money we put forth for our game at this time does not go into our game. That belief is what keep me from spending a dime here.

    Until someone within the Dev staff can gaurentee that money spent here will go back into this game I will not spend a single dime anymore. I simply am tired of this game being passed over. I refuse to pay for a game I now have no intention to play, and could frankly careless how anyone else feels about that as it is my choice.

    Yes, we have heard this concern and I too share this it to a certain extent. However, we should not expect every dime we spend on CO goes back into CO. A majority of it should but as all other businesses, the profits goes into investment in other areas as well. That is to be expected and accepted. What I would really like to know is, how many active players we have, what is the turn-over rate, what is the sepnding patterns of these players. From there, what kind of figures will be sufficient for the company to seriously enhance the development of this game? What kind of publicity is needed? What is the current market trends for games and a superhero theme MMO. These are the business and marketing aspects. PWE is obviously making profits with their strategies. If we expect them to change their approach to MMOs, we jolly damn well have a better business model for them, backed by evidence and research findings. I am NOT an expert in market research and neither do I have the resources to even attempt something like that. All I want then is at least they do not pull the plug on this game as it is the only one I play.
  • clcmercy
    clcmercy Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Sooo....yeah. If the point to posting this article was to get me mildly excited about an up and coming rival superhero mmo being worked on with a development team that came together solely for the love of CoX and its community.... well then, SUCCESS!

    I mean, did you guys see some of that concept art. Some really cool ideas they have, me likey.

    So even if CO never comes out of it's slump, hopefully we'll still have a way of getting our hero fix. And that's the best news I've seen posted on the CO forums in ages.:tongue:


    My vote is for having the next superhero genre game be owned by absolutely NO eastern companies. Keep it in our backyard. By players for players.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • cellarrat33
    cellarrat33 Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yes, we have heard this concern and I too share this it to a certain extent. However, we should not expect every dime we spend on CO goes back into CO...

    ...I am an expert in market resaerch and neither do I have the resources to even attempt something like that. All I want then is at least they do not pull the plug on this game as it is the only one I play.

    I am totally addicted to CO. I love the game. A super hero genre MMO is the only one that I will support with my money.

    I was a monthly subscriber since launch. I bought almost every costume pack, several additional character slots, several additional costume slots, and a couple of name change tokens. I even bought 10 Halloween grab bags in 2011.

    I was even willing to pay for Vibora Bay had CO made that a paid expansion.

    I have not and will not buy a Cosmic Key.

    I let my subscription lapse in November. I figure I've paid enough. I'll just coast for right now. I am quite happy leveling new silver characters.

    If new playable content (i.e. a new zone, mission arc, adventure pack/comic series) is released I will probably resub. I miss my Gold characters.

    I'm sure there are several vets with similar views, but all this info is useless because we have no access to player data.

    So yeah, it would be nice to be able to say to CO "Hey! Here we are! Pay attention to what we have to say!" But we don't have any hard numbers to be able to do that.

    Of course it could be that if we saw the actual numbers we would probably be saying... "Oh my! How are you guys even paying for the servers?!"


    CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared

    ***
    "The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
    From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
    ***
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    Wesleytansg makes good observations. The rest of you should read them a bit closer and think.

    Honestly... if you read the forums a lot, you'll notice that people have been making all those observations daily for over a year now.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • battybattybats
    battybattybats Posts: 777 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    clcmercy wrote: »
    My vote is for having the next superhero genre game be owned by absolutely NO eastern companies. Keep it in our backyard. By players for players.

    Have players receive shares when they pay into the game. Customers who are also shareholders and so also bosses.

    Hmm is PW on the sharemarket?
    ___________________________________
    While she has been rescued
    what diabolical mastermind
    was behind the devious brain-napping of
    the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
  • decorumfriends
    decorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Share-holders are not "bosses", they're "investors". They don't have to be obeyed at all unless they have a majority block of voting stock.
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • ariesmajor
    ariesmajor Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Share-holders are not "bosses", they're "investors". They don't have to be obeyed at all unless they have a majority block of voting stock.

    You say that as if its difficult to do. People do it all the time, flash a couple million in the face of some exec, buyout and proceed to push and shape the stock into what they see as the most profitable or "better". There's a whole different side to the whole stock thing, but, it'd be too long to put up on a forum.

    I still feel, that, if a developer has enough titles to its name, and enough of a franchise to its name then it should be strong enough, and confident enough to publish its own games.
    Most every american mmo developer has done this with great success. Riot Games even showed us that the western market doesn't need to bind itself to an eastern publisher to make a great business, nor do they have to buy the rights for an eastern game just to profit. 30+million accounts and who knows how many more dollars came out of a game that was basically developed in a basement. They crafted their product. And PUBLISHED their own game. Riot owns the servers, Riot owns the licence, Riot owns the game...period. And they've found so much success in it that they're able to expand their services to other countries and bring in money from around the world.

    Cryptic has 4 titles now after Neverwinter is finally released. 4 games. Riot only has 1. Blizzard has 3 or 4 major ones, and again, they own the servers, own the game, and own the business model. Every dime that riot and blizzard make goes straight back into the game. No pilfering with publishers, no worrying about shut downs, everything they do, and everything that happens to those games happens at the discretion of riot and blizzard, so everything you see happen with that game comes right out of the goats mouth.

    If I was responsible for the creation of champions online, and City of Heroes, I would have already moved some servers in house, came up with a business model and started my own franchise....before star trek even came into existance.

    Every one of these large scale development companies are doing it, and the ones that are doing it will continue to live on in their games for generations. I can't even remember how long WoW has been out but, it'll survive till 2020 at least, and if the graphic capabilities of 2020 are too high, it'll be the first game of its kind to do a full overhaul of the entire game to match computer specs of the future.

    "Cryptic Entertainment" Host your own games, gain your own income, no more profit sharing. The only people you have to answer to are the fans of your game, (and the minor technicality involved with star trek but...its freakin star trek, Star Treks IP is like a 2ton diamond, unbreakable and everlasting.)

    Think about it like this, if PWE makes 2million dollars off of a cryptic game, how much of that does cryptic get back?

    Now think of riot and blizzard.
    If league of legends makes 2million dollars, how much of that does Riot Games get back? They get it all, pretty much 99%.

    If WoW, Diablo, Starcraft, make 8million dollars, how much of that does Blizzard get back?
    You can google this if you want to, but, I don't gamble, but I'm willing to make a bet its over 90%.

    I've always been a fan of Champions Online, City of Heros, Star Trek online, and I hope to be a fan of Neverwinter.....on the contrary, since 3 of those 4 mentioned titles are published by PWE, I have to say, I've never been a fan of Perfect World, Forsaken World, Ether Saga, or any of the Of the Immortals games. So how wierd is it, that your next door neighbor is someone you hate?
This discussion has been closed.