What grade would you give Champs?



  • ashensnow
    ashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Yeah, I think they rely way too much on bump mapping for detail. I would have loved actual lines penned in instead.

    But still, I don't think Champs looks bad by any means. It's stylized. For some reason people seem to think that more realistic means better. For me, personally, it's quite the opposite. I enjoy looking at a game way more if it's got some sort of style to the graphics (I LOVE Borderlands, and Crackdown's style, and WoW's as well (yeah, more polygons does not always mean better :P)). Know which game bored me to tears? Conan. Technically, a very beautiful game, but, it was so plain that I was just all bleh all over it.

    So yeah, while I prefer how games like Borderlands and Crackdown look, I wouldn't say that Champs looks bad. It's just different.

    100% agreement, including the part about Conan. I so wanted to like ***, but bleh.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • selphea
    selphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have 3 questions for the forum community:

    1) How long have you been playing?

    Since July 2011, on and off.
    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    CO isn't an easy game to grade - is a mix of overwhelming strengths that really set the game apart from other MMOs, as well as crippling weaknesses.

    Strengths include the usual mentions - Freeform system, aesthetic customization and a consistently authentic comic book art style encompassing power effects, character appearances and area design. Also, great community reps like Trailturtle and an overall lack of pressure to either pay or give up your RL life to win. It also has great developer support for the RP community in the form of RP areas flagged as no-duel zones, Hideouts and the sheer amount of fluff areas in the game. They even take suggestions to make the game more RP-friendly into account, something I have never seen in any MMO ever.

    Weaknesses are pretty bad though - the sheer plethora of bugs that have been around for months, or even years, the frequent breaking of core systems almost every update, and an unshakable feeling that the development team is really too small to deliver sizable content updates. Minor issues include a general lack of polish - mis-positioned camera zooms, inconsistent voice acting (Ghetto Green Dragon says hi) and a lack of balance between powersets.

    Overall, I think the strengths outweigh the weaknesses and I'd give it a solid B+ as a casual game to hop into now and then. Don't stay long enough for the issues to get to you. As a hardcore game it probably gets a C-.
    3) Why do you feel that way?

    See above =p
  • sverbridge
    sverbridge Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    1) How long have you been playing? A little over a year, casual play only. I've only played the free version. I also only play solo for the most part, with only occasionally joining forces for events and alerts.

    2) What grade would you give Champs? Overall, I have been really happy with the game, so B+.

    3) Why do you feel that way? I played the Champions RPG for years and I love the fact that I can now immerse myself into this universe even further and explore it in areas not dictated by the GM or other players. I play solo, for the most part, and I have found that you can do quite well on your own. There are a lot of different adventures to go on and you can spend a lot of time just following the adventures from place to place. I did discover that in order to play solo and not get beat down constantly, I need to stay with adventure levels that are a bit below my current level. Plex is 28th level, so I try to stay on adventures that are in the mid 20 range. I feel like even though I play for free, I get a pretty good set of powers/costume choices/etc... and I really don't feel limited in play.
  • flyingfinn
    flyingfinn Posts: 8,382 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    xaogarrent wrote: »
    Then how about we compare it to the original Borderlands?


    Or are you going to say it's unfair to compare it to a game where every texture was hand drawn? Cause that my friend, is what you call "a love for what you do."

    Also, if CO's comic book outlines looked anywhere as good as Borderlands, I'd have them still turned on.

    Make Borderlands an mmo, with character creator like in CO and i wave bb to CO. And maybe some capes and tights into it. Oh yea and put 3rd person view on it.
    I'm still playing 1st Borderlands, until i get the #2.
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  • angelphoenix12
    angelphoenix12 Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have 3 questions for the forum community:

    1) How long have you been playing?

    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    3) Why do you feel that way?

    Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions :smile:

    ive been playing sence beta
    solid D
    the reason for the D is becuse they havent added almost nothing new. outside of alerts.
    for myself, personally i would raise it up if pwe showed some kind of caring about this game. like sto. i understand they are trying to get neverwinter out of the door. however this game has been suffering.
  • visionstorm01
    visionstorm01 Posts: 564 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    1) November 2009

    2) Character Editor A-, Story D-, Overal Game C

    3) Many reasons I was attempting to outline, but got destroyed by a browser error (someone slap me repeatedly, please, for continuing with my habit of using IE dispite the fact its progressively gotten worse with every version) and don't have the time to re-thinking them up and write them again. All in all:

    The Good:
    - Best character editior in the industry (though, still has a few bugs and limitations, and I would have prefered a less "cartoony" feel)
    - Good "actiony" combat mechanics
    - Freeform system

    The Baaaad:
    - Worse story, with excessive campy humor and pop culture references, and a world and characters with no personality of their own
    - Poor power balance, lack of challenge and excessive focus on casual gameplay
    - Poor development focus and direction that consitently shifts for the next "big (new) thing" while leaving old, unfinished features (Nemesis System, Hideouts, etc.) unsupported

    On the topic of TSW... THIS (Ok, I just wanted to post a pic of my main. Also, more pics on my TSW Album)
  • lovehammer1
    lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have 3 questions for the forum community:[

    1) How long have you been playing?

    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    3) Why do you feel that way?

    Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions :smile:
    Since Jan 2009.

    c+ Well, i'm still here.

    I love the champs creator. Best in the biz. I love being able to make (Almost) any type of hero i want to. And early on pvp was great fun! Nothing better than palying zombie and bash a while back. However, the balance or lack of when it comes to powers is pretty bad.

    More bugs than my backyard. I have a pretty big backyard too.
    Too many "new" things on tap, without really cleaning up the old mess still there.

    Although, i no longer play nor care as much about pvp as i did in the past, i feel doing nothing for pvpers or as little a possible has really hurt this game...along with a certain crowd. In other words, without balance in the powers system you create a big gap between players who want to make the "HERO" they have always dreamed of and those that will only take the op or broken powers.

    By not cleaning up broken powers and leaving whole sets busted and weak, the gap between players in this game has grown imo.
    However, i don't see an easy fix for this. I don't remember there being this much bickering between the pve crowd and the pvp crowd. Huge minus- when it comes to community in this game.

    Otherwise i would of givien a higher grade.
  • fantasycharacter
    fantasycharacter Posts: 458 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have been playing since alpha.

    I give champs an A for effort, and an A for addicting.:redface:

    I feel this way because some of the devs you can tell are trying hard. I also find this game very addicting, although I am not too social in game I just like playing it and my supers. I have probably played this game more than I have played any other game, ever.
  • jonsills
    jonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Stormy, how long has it been since you started a character from the beginning? Because the camp level has been toned waaaaaaay down from when I first started playing...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • twg042370
    twg042370 Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have 3 questions for the forum community:

    1) How long have you been playing?

    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    3) Why do you feel that way?

    Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions :smile:

    Since F2P.

    I give it an A simply because the things I hate about MMOs are largely absent in the game. The twenty minute Gather X Numbers of Y missions? Nope. Forced teaming? Nope. Sudden progression walls that can't be surmounted without taking out the wallet? Nope.

    Also, the game is fast paced, fun, and the character creator is aces.

    I give it a D because support is poor. Updates are sparse. And bugs are rampant and mission-killing.
    Wait? Whaaaa..?
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I wont grade it I will simply say this.

    After putting hundreds of hours in all 3 super mmos Champs is my fave, I must also add this might be because my fave PnP game is Champs.
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
  • agentnx5
    agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    @ Nepht : I'm curious... What's your opinion on my assessment here? http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=184531&page=6
  • beldin
    beldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    1: May or June 2010. LTA since May 2011
    2: C
    3: Great Charactereditor and Gameplay, but simply no real "playable" content updates since Vibora Bay.
    And no .. i don't count the APs and CSs, since i mostly play them once and never again, while i was through complete Canada and MI with 31 characters meanwhile.

    zahinder wrote: »
    I like the graphics, they could just be BETTER. IMO.

    Champions Online

    The Secret World

    Guild Wars 2

    I mean, all in all I'm happy to trade some graphics fidelity for the sheer range of options, but ... still.

    What about making a good Screenshot in CO with an actual background ?
    Like maybe these :

    Looks a lot better as your picture with just a white background :wink:
  • aiqa
    aiqa Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    beldin wrote: »
    Looks a lot better as your picture with just a white background :wink:

    Indeed it does.
    And also, game screenshots are static, animation matters a lot, and the CO animations are far better then those other two games. And even the animations that is not all that good, are less jarring, because of the 'uncanny valley' thing (CO is more stylized).
  • nepht
    nepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    @ Nepht : I'm curious... What's your opinion on my assessment here? http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=184531&page=6

    You did a very in depth honest review of the game that anyone would have problems arguing with .

    But with me because in RL I am rather serious ( running a comic books store is more stressful than you might think :/ ) I sorta turn my serious off when I play games to me it boils down to is it fun can I pick it up and play and have a laugh.

    Last few days I walloped a werewolf with a foam finger, hit a whale over the head with a bottle and shrunk a truck, as much as I like the others DCUO and CoX cant match that strangeness .

    If I had to grade them.

    CO would get a B for its lore, toon creator and the fact its community is mad as a brush.

    CoX would get a B for the massive amount of content it has.

    DCUO would get a C for the falling through the floor glicth.
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
  • iamrune
    iamrune Posts: 963 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'd love it if anyone would bother replying or commenting on my own grade post.

    Seems like every time I post, a bunch of poeple start talking past me immediately. :frown:
  • vikaernes
    vikaernes Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have 3 questions for the forum community:

    1) How long have you been playing?

    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    3) Why do you feel that way?

    Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions :smile:

    1: I've been playing since August 2010, went lifetime in February 2011.

    2: My overall grade for Champs right now: D+ (pre-on alert I would have graded at B to B+) I will breakdown grading in #3)

    3: Customization: B+ This game still has the best, most versatile character creator in the MMO gamespace right now (I don't consider APB an MMO.) It would get an A from me if it was a little easier to get true variation in facial appearance. Creating a semi-realistic looking character in CO is possible, I've done it. However, in both NPC's and player characters I still see the same thing: big googly eyes, weird creepy smiles and generally, for all the variation that is possible, most of the characters I see tend to look very very similar. Now it's possible a good majority of players like the look, but I think many would like to really be able to craft a more distinctive, unique look without having to work the character creator for 2+ hours to get there.

    Community: A+ I actually left CO in July. I still chat with people in the community via pidgin everyday. I think it says a lot for a community if even the players who no longer are interested in the game, are still interested in the community.

    Social/RP support: B There's a lot of great things this game does to support it's social gaming community. XMPP support, customizable channels, Social instances and housing, and @handles ensuring that you get the name you want.

    Content: D- I give it a D minus only because you still have the opportunity to go back and do some of the real content this game produced before On Alert was released. What this game calls "new content" now is just a joke. And even if the old content is still there, we can run through 90% of it once, and then it's gone. Why not repeatable missions outside of Lairs/Adventure Packs/Comic Series? Would it be that difficult to do?

    Developer Communication: F If I could give it an F-minus, I would. In another game I play right now, had a thread like this started on their boards, by page two, our lead game director would have chimed in, saying he's looking at all of our feedback and taking it into consideration. We get constant developer feedback on our suggestions and concerns. I appreciate what Trail Turtle does, and to speak to you directly TT: You are doing a fine job of trying to right this ship. But right now, it's been radio silence for far too long on a lot of our concerns.

    Content updates/future plans: D- Since the abandonment of adventure packs to comic series, which have now been abandoned as well in favor of the two minute faceroll known as Alerts, the bar has been consistently lowered with respect to what passes as content in this game. Looking at future plans, we've seen what was two new zones planned devolve into an expansion of MC and a mini zone for Dr. D's island, the potential moon zone is now scaled down to a persistent warzone, foundry is off the table, the PvE arena was scrapped, vehicles are looking to be nothing more than glorified become devices, hideout updates abandoned, and SG bases are a pipe dream. On top of all that, it looks like the proposed London storyline for Halloween won't be happening either.

    Gameplay/mechanics: C- This has always been a sticking point for me, even before On Alert. Aside from the higher end lairs, most of the tactics in this game involve 5 people smashing head first into a wall again and again until it breaks. This is unfortunately, as I see it, a byproduct of something that a lot of people really like about the gameplay: it's high energy and fast paced. I would say that crafting would have lowered or raised the grade one way or another, but to honest I used it as much post alert as I did pre alert: not at all.

    Monetization model: F Turning this game into a Questionite grind was what made me turn to another game.

    In summary, Cryptic, I think you have a great, supportive community that deserves a better gaming experience than they are currently being provided.
  • pion01
    pion01 Posts: 758 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    iamrune wrote: »
    I'd love it if anyone would bother replying or commenting on my own grade post.

    Seems like every time I post, a bunch of poeple start talking past me immediately. :frown:

    I think it's cuz we all usually agree with you lol.

    Your're pretty spot on, the only disagreement I have is thath I dont log in as often as you do, but for the same reson - I've done the vast majority already. I've promised myself to go back and do stuff I haven't done yet tho; retcon my main back to his concept, and enjoy the stories.

    Also, I agree 100% on the face thing, I don't know what people complain about (so I usually ignore them). I know it's hard to make a good face, but when you have near infinite possibility, its far more likely you'll suck at it; that's not the system's fault, that just leads to "streamlining character creators," so the rest of you keep that in mind next time you keep ******** :mad:.

    Are there limitations? Yeah. Mouths often look weird, for example, but I've seen some amazing facial (:eek:!) work in game. I actually just asked someone for their template recently because it was really well done (shout out to Segma's amazing work).

    And yeah, this is the only game I've played consistently since CoX for as long as I have.
    (except for maybe Chrono Trigger and SSF2T, which, duh, who didnt?)
  • darqaura
    darqaura Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Since Alpha/Beta.

    C+ or if I'm being generous B-.

    The game desperately needs more non-Alerts content and more overall zones/leveling paths.

    The free form power system is neat . . . but the novelty of that has worn off when there is nothing left for you to do to level alts.

    If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
  • cybersoldier1981
    cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I give Champs a C. And barely that. Its saving grace is the Character Creation, which is by far the greatest I've ever seen in an MMO.

    If you take that away, CO is a broken game. Constantly, there are bugs and glitches. Some of them game-breaking. Problems that required a GM response take a week- at best (however, I used the word 'furry' in a negative way and there was a ticket for 'Hate Speech and Racism' in my mailbox 24 hours later, go figure). The 'report spam/ignore player' silence feature is probably the in the top 3 stupidest things I have seen in gaming- ranking between Lord British's crybaby flipout on UO and buying the ending to a game through DLC.

    So, it would only take a game having three things to flatten CO-

    -Manage the game.
    -Don't let players chat ban people.
    -Good character creator.

    I won't lie, as soon as that pops up- I'm moving on.
  • agentnx5
    agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    The 'report spam/ignore player' silence feature is probably the in the top 3 stupidest things I have seen in gaming- ranking between Lord British's crybaby flipout on UO and buying the ending to a game through DLC.

    Ah yes, and let's not forget ShadeShooter promised action on this many months ago. Have you all seen any action? Because I sure as hell haven't, it was all smoke & mirrors. Not even so much as a f***ing status update on the progress... Seriously, the last official word on this was when? Feels like ages ago...

    Frankly, example incidents like that show that TrailTurtle is being a much better Community Rep than ShadeShooter ever was.

    Praise when deserved, criticism when deserved. *shrug*
  • wraithshadow13
    wraithshadow13 Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I can understand why Cryptic as a whole has been so hush hush lately since they've got a nasty rep of making promises they don't keep, but at the same time it would be nice to have some kind of steady communication from the dev side. TrailTurtle is obviously doing a great job as BranFlakes over on the STO forums, but in terms of what's happening, i wouldn't mind getting a little more from the dev side. Too much silence is worrying.

    As for the Game itself, i'd say yeah, a solid C.

    I've been in since beta so i've seen a lot of things happen both for better and for worse. A lot of the failings of the game seem to come from small cash grab tactics rather than long term improvements. A lot of people actively want to give cryptic money as well as tell them great ways how to earn it, but instead of steady content we just get store shinies.

    I do agree with Cybersoldier1981 though but expand it to Character customization as well as creation is the games saving grace. Not a lot of other games give the freedoms in powers, looks, leveling and such as Cryptic has done here. If DCUO had left it's power system like CO, than it could have easily put this game out of business, but that's DCUO's failing, not enough customization.
  • hyperstrikecoh
    hyperstrikecoh Posts: 472 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    1) How long have you been playing?

    Since "friends and family". I haven't actually played all that much outside of testing though and had basically gone back to CoH to stay before opening day.
    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    3) Why do you feel that way?

    It's not a bad game. I don't like some of the changes Cryptic made to differentiate it from CoH and to more fully embrace the Champions IP. But understand the reasoning behind it.

    This game isn't CoH. It's never going to be CoH. And it really SHOULDN'T be CoH. But dammit, I was spoiled for 4+ years by CoH! Pretty much EVERYTHING is going to suffer in comparison. CO actually suffers the least though.

    After years of gradually improving travel speeds in CoH, going back to "slog across the zone" is somewhat painful. Maybe I'll get used to it. Still if I have an hour to play, I want to spend as much of that hour bashing bad guys. Telling me I'm going to spend 30 minutes bashing and 30 minutes getting to places to bash? It doesn't sit well.

    Luckily I'm on an LTS account. So I don't have to put up with the restrictions of an F2P account.

    The big one for me. Play in CO is going to be limited for me. The art style actually triggers headaches if I play more than an hour or so and nausea if I don't stop when I feel the first twinges. I'm playing at 1920x1080 with everything cranked (save bloom).

    Oh well. Needed an excuse to get exercise right? :rolleyes:
  • joeblow3
    joeblow3 Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    1. Just started playing this month with the closure of CoH :mad:.

    2. I give it a B.

    3. Why? becuase its just not as good as CoH in many respects. Less custimization I guess. Fewer colors for powers, not enough custom weapon skins (espically for Ego Weapons) etc. Combat is not point and click friendly. No Auras, the art style is too cartoony and anime. To much "Stop you dastardly villain" and not enough of the nitty gritty 90s and today comic style art and stories (although CoH suffered from this too atleast unitl Going Rogue.).
  • draogn
    draogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    1) How long have you been playing?

    Since Beta

    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    It would be hard to grade, there are things I enjoy about the game, and many things I don't, though a C if I must.

    3) Why do you feel that way?

    Customization is stellar in the game, though in recent months there have been a number of glitches/bugs/clipping errors that have cropped up in the tailor. I understand bugs happen, but some of them I often wonder how they were missed or allowed to go through. Especially since most of the costume packs of late have required Zen. I would also still like to see the tattoos/animal skins given their own layer, similar to how it is in CoH.

    For the content some of the alerts are nice, some of them aren't worth the effort. The focus on drifter missions and grab bags is annoying, but easily ignored and atleast we don't have the lockboxes from Guild wars/STO. The game could stand some alternate leveling paths, sorry the alerts, aps, and cs just don't fill this roll atleast not right now. We could also use some more level 40 content, again aps, cs, and alerts are nice distractions but they aren't a good substitute for full zones.

    Then we have the features such as the Nemesis system, this could use a lot of work. In a game such as this why is it every nemesis goes through the exact same missions and ends up in the exact same place working for Dr. D. I would like to see a nemesis who either is jealous/just wants to fight/a rival/wants something you have/ect.

    There is also a lack of depth/variety when it comes to the game, each warehouse, crypt, sewer, cave that we go into has nearly the exact same layout. VB is the worst when it comes to crypts. For the next invasion perhaps have the invaders actually attacking something would make things a little more interesting.

    Customer Support and communication is another area that is getting better, but has a long ways to go. They took way to long to answer our concerns about, the Region blocks for instance, I understand they did eventually say something but it was nearly 7 months with out a single word. We kept getting promised it would get better, and so far it is improving, but it still has a long ways to go. Everything else I would have to say about this has already been said.

    All in all the game is entertaining enough. It shows that the devs work hard with what they have, and if PWE shifted a few more resources in COs direction things could only get better.
  • kenpojujitsu3
    kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I have 3 questions for the forum community:

    1) How long have you been playing?

    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    3) Why do you feel that way?

    Thanks in advance for sharing your opinions :smile:

    1) Since launch, Sept. 2009.

    2) B-

    3) Because at its core it's a good game that does a lot right. My issues with the game that prevent it from having an A are a direct result of how long I've been here. It's not that the stuff in the game isn't fun, it's that I've done nearly all of it dozens of times and the new things to do don't last long or "grab" my attention and hold on to it. Were I new and green again I'd give the game an A-.
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  • malvou
    malvou Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I've been playing since Launch.

    I'm giving it a C-

    I have seen the downward slope CO has been going for the past few years. There is a disturbing lack of Content. Major content. Content that is not 5 minute breaks for the same maps and missions we've been doing since 2009.

    The last major zone update was in 2010 with Champions Online: Revelation. Which was going to be a paid for content expansion but was given out for free.

    We have not have any large new zones with story arcs, canon characters and large adventures in two years.

    What we have been getting is smaller adventures in things such as Adventure Packs and Comic Series, and Alert grinding. While still playing the same large map content since forever. Items have been dumbed down from creative writing and titles to generic no-text stats. The game has lost personality and have become another eastern grindfest.

    Cryptic, please. Once Neverwinter is done, come back and make a quality expansion to the game with about 3-4 new zones and everything. Pull a WoW in terms of content.
  • jonsills
    jonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    malvou wrote: »
    Pull a WoW in terms of content.
    You mean issue a new disc, in a new box, and make everybody pay $50 to play the new stuff? 'Cause that's how WoW does it...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • malvou
    malvou Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    jonsills wrote: »
    You mean issue a new disc, in a new box, and make everybody pay $50 to play the new stuff? 'Cause that's how WoW does it...

    "In terms of content"
    being the key phrase.

    As in, in-game content.
  • auldwolf
    auldwolf Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I feel a B is fair.

    I'm not going to give it an A because that's hyperbole, and nothing is perfect. CO has problems. It has a lack of overall content, for one thing. And the loss of Tumerboy and having no one on the forums to prod for MMO development insights is a loss to us all. (I think I speak for us all when I say that I miss him.)

    But there's one important element that usually sets an MMORPG aside from a good game. A good game doesn't feel cynical. With a good game, you can sit down, play it, and enjoy it for a reasonable amount of money. Torchlight II, for example, is a good game. (A very good one, at that.) With some games, you feel you're being taken for a ride.

    Now, the ways in which a game can feel cynical are the following:

    • You're being charged too much and getting too little.

    Is CO cynical in this regard? No. Silver players get a ridiculous amount of content for free. Gold players get a grand amount of customisation and content for their money. It feels generous. The Cerberus missions for ME2 were generous, the price-tag of Torchlight II was generous, and I feel that CO fits the bill.

    • Things are drawn out - the more you play, the more you pay.

    Now, this can be nickel-and-diming with DLC, like Capcom likes to do (despite having stuff on the disc), or it can be drawing the game out and using group peer pressure and padding to keep you playing through the grind, like WoW.

    In the case of the latter, usually nerfing people so that they feel horribly underpowered, and so that they have to struggle through the content is a great way to make something feel cynical. This is why I'm still playing CO over GW2, but I'll get back to that.

    CO feels smooth, it doesn't punish you for not wanting to grind, it's a very pleasant experience. You don't feel like you're forced to play the game long after it's outstayed its welcome. Then, when you do come back to it, you come back to enjoy it again, and it hasn't grown stale.

    In GW2, you'll die often. Even if you dodge-roll, even if you have an amazing build. You'll have to pay to go to waypoints, and pay for armour repairs, and it'll keep you destitute. It'll make you want to buy gems and exchange them for gold so you won't be broke. And this will creep into your mind as something that feels really cynical.

    Some people will grind through, stubbornly. Or get addicted. But I'm smart, I recognise it as being cynical and I call it quits until they sort their stuff out. I want to play a game where I feel almost like I'm being followed around by a suit-encrusted spectre asking me every few seconds whether I'd like to enjoy the game more. Whether I'd like to skip the padding. How much I'd pay to skip the padding.

    CO has none of that. It's better for it.

    • The rule of fun. Standing by your design.

    Some games are a casualty of wanting to be too successful. So they change their design to account for the lowest common denominator. They 'sell out.' The above two elements are part of this, but there's more to it than that. Games that start off with lofty goals lose them and set them aside, just so that they'll get ever more and more customers.

    Champions Online hasn't done this, YET. If they ever do, I will look harshly upon them for it. But let me explain more of what I mean by this.

    Okay, so regarding GW2, you have people out there who feed off of and fetishise familiarity (alliteration, sorry, my brain does it naturally). So, they like their fantasy being all medieval castles, high magicks, elves with size HHH breasts bouncing through forests and nuking things from miles away with an enchanted bow, men with manswords stabbing dragons. You know, sexual power fantasies in the most excruciatingly dull setting imaginable.

    So, the charr of GW2 were too technological. They were toned down because people were freaking out over how much tech they brought to the table. So they toned down how high-tech the charr's stuff looked. It went from being smooth and advanced in the concept art, to looking hacked together in the final game. And moreover, the new look didn't actually fit the lore, because they were supposed to be mass-producing these things. but you can't mass-produce something that looks so jury-rigged.

    So I lost a lot of respect for them for that.

    How does CO factor into that? CO is as cheesy and corny as heck. I love it. It makes me happy. There are plenty of grimdark and pseudo-intellectual games out there, filled with ponces who want to sound important, and feel like they're gods in the kind of world they'd want to be gods in. You know, there's a lot of that out there. There's room for one, cheesy game. One game that's just silly and fun.

    I love the dialogue lines in CO, I love the flavour text, the lore, the quest dialogues, the NPC banter. It's beautiful. Only in a game like this could you have 'villains' as ridiculous as Foxbat, or Guy Sweetland, or all of VIPER. VIPER just amuse me with their colourfulness and their dorky lines.

    In Conclusion...

    That's why I'm still here. That's why I keep coming back. That's why I give Champions Online a B. Maybe it's because it's a niche MMORPG that it can remain like this. But it's the only MMORPG out there of its type. Oh, and they have come close to ruining it in the past. With rounds of nerfing, or cynicism in their business model, or considering changing the tone of the game.

    But they never did. It all keeps working out in the end. And I've come to trust them, and respect them. I'll play Neverwinter, too. I play STO. I just like Cryptic. They've given me a lot of reason to like them.

    It's not perfect, no. But what is? So, a B, then.

    May they never become cynical and reduce this game to a nerfed grindfest, filled with microtransactions to get through padding, and with a setting of endless in the grim darkness of the grim and dark future, there are only ponces being pseudo-intellectual about war. May they continue as they have done. And I really hope they will.
  • notburningchick
    notburningchick Posts: 88 Arc User
    edited October 2012


    Short form: lack of polish; lack of communication; lack of content.

    Longer form:

    When Jack started to formally stump for this game, he repeatedly said that one of the lessons learned from CoH was that you can't release new features into a game post-release and expect the players to use them -- he cited PvP (i4) and bases (i6) as examples. He was wrong and didn't see the forest for the trees.

    The lesson he should have learned is that players will only use systems, new or old, if they are well-implemented -- CoH's introduction of the market and inventions (i9, released before CoH was sold to NCSoft) should have been the counter-example.

    That's right, Jack thought it was better to release crap early (and pray there's the budget and time to polish said turd down the road), just in time for initial reviews from gaming sites and impressions from players, than to release something polished and slick down the road.

    Lack of communication and content are, IME, self-explanatory.

    That said ... there's something about the game, a certain je ne sais quoi, that makes it moderately enjoyable despite its flaws. It's somehow better than the sum of its parts (seriously, some of the parts are still bad, like the market) ... so a C.
  • savetheplanetnow
    savetheplanetnow Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    A - because there is no other Superhero MMO RPG out there

    (I count DCUO not as an RPG btw)
  • itsbrou#5396
    itsbrou#5396 Posts: 1,766 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'm addicted to this game :o

    I get mad at parts of it, but I can't give the game any less than an A.

    But it's up to Cryptic to make this a game with many new places, content, character growth, zone dynamics, and stories, instead of a non-modable Second Life.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • smoochan
    smoochan Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited November 2012

    The essay had a great opening paragraph, but after that it was uninspired, unoriginal, repetetive, lacked any real substance, and was littered with spelling and grammatical errors. Without that opening paragraph, would definitely have been an F.

    Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    1) How long have you been playing? Since Beta, bought LTS when they were first available, played to much since.2)

    What grade would you give Champs? B, before Alerts. D, Since

    3) Why do you feel that way? Before Alerts it looked like the game could be going in a good direction, we had the Comic Series, Adeventure packs, and it was looking like we would have real content added...then Alerts came and all we get now are 5 minute missions, but since they are built around having a gathering mish from the Drifter guy and seemingly a big name character, they pass it off as Content.

    I love to RP in Champs, and if they added RP locations or the Foundry then it would quickly jump back to a B or an A even. I just wish we could use some of the mission locations and such places as the HI-Pan Dragon Alert as a place to go and RP.

    Hideouts were a great step, then they were forgotten about. They gave back some of the great RP locations, but then closed others off and left others still closed.

    On top of it all it really feels like the people who run this game dont really care about what people want.

    and lets not forget how they told use we would beable to customize Vehicles....yeah great work on that CO.

    Things to make this game got from D to B or A (IMO)
    *or open/make more RP locations
    *new Zones
    *no more alerts
    *New Hideouts and the SG bases we have been teased.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    jonsills wrote: »
    You mean issue a new disc, in a new box, and make everybody pay $50 to play the new stuff? 'Cause that's how WoW does it...

    Maybe that is their tactic, starve us for content then charge us $50 for it in a new box and disc, cause at this point I would buy it.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • titotito333999
    titotito333999 Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    1. Since beta 1189 days officially

    2. "B"

    3. "A" for customization and "D" for content, so (A+D)/2 = B... in my head it makes sense hehe.

    This was awesome while it lasted
  • machinegunblues
    machinegunblues Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    1) Just got my 200 day rewards.

    2)I'm gonna go from B- to C+.

    I've rarely had as much fun as I'm having now in an MMO, in spite of the (mainly valid) criticisms people level at the game. Freeform is awesome actually makes me WANT to create new characters and try new things, the people (at least in the communities I frequent) are great, and I love the setting and theme. These are generally the things that keep me coming back, along with character customization and the lack of grindiness.

    That being said I'll be very disappointed if we don't see new playable content soon. Grav-bikes coming out will keep me entertained for awhile, but we're in dire need of new zones or at least adventure packs. I'm kind of grateful for alerts for this reason; if I'm feeling horridly bored doing the same missions to rank up I have a relatively easy method of powerleveling. The proliferation of bugs is annoying, though for me not game breaking.
  • akirasanbeer
    akirasanbeer Posts: 215 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    A)1181+ days
    C) Core foundation (gameplay/customization) is solid; to the point that I can't go back to the old style of MMO's. It's always been lacking in content, and from the looks of it, I doubt that will change.
  • atompenguin
    atompenguin Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    1) How long have you been playing?
    -Since closed beta. I have taken several breaks in my gameplay, however, and am only now approaching 833 days.

    2) What grade would you give Champs?

    3) Why do you feel that way?
    -As the game has gone on, it has repeatedly failed to live up to its potential. It features top notch customization but for the long time player there's nothing to DO with this customization. While the power customization is nice there's simpy no balance in the game and pve difficulty is an absolute joke. The way combat works is so badly broken, and so far removed from the concept it started with that there doesn't seem to be a reason to even bother with it and I doubt there will ever be even a semblance of challenge because glaring issues with balance that allow people to solo anything and everything will never be fixed.

    Fun bits of content, like nemesis, comic series and adventure packs are discarded at a moments notice as the game lacks funding and loses talented people to maintain and work on them. There has been an increase in things coming out now seem like obvious cash grabs that are painfully and or poorly executed.

    Bugs go unfixed for long stretches of time unless they're priority (ie, have some money value attached to them) and it often feels like we're in no mans land with the lack of communication. How long has it been since we last had a state of the game? Why is Neverwinters FAQ copy and pasted onto our site? Why can't we see things we throw still? How long have multiple parts of adventure packs and comic series been bugged?

    The bugs aren't even the worst part. The fact that every time they patch to fix something, they break something they fixed in a previous patch falls apart again. It's like this game is held together by duct tape and they have to constantly retape everything to keep the already badly showing seams from coming apart fully. They can't even DO anything to capitalize on CoX going down. People are going to come here and see what a crap heap it is and turn to DCUO or just move on to something else.

    I love this game. I wouldn't keep coming back to it if I didn't. But after playing it for so long and seeing it coninue its slow march downhill I can't help but be upset. To be saddened. The only thing keeping me here is the RP community and friends I've made playing the game. I rarely play the actual content any more because it's all old. No matter how many coats of paint they slap over Westside, or the Desert, or Canada they are still the same places vets of the game have played through time and time again. It's fun seeing the changes but it's just. not. enough.

    Alerts are nothing. They are flat and generic. They're a speed bump on the way to grinding out another 40. And they're likely all we're going to get for the forseeable future in the way of content that isn't something we have to pay out for.

    At one time I would have given this game a B or maybe a solid C if I was feeling more honest with myself, but right now? I can't in good faith give it more than a D.
    -Campaign: Spells and Coin
    --Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
    --Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
    --Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)

    -One Shots
    --The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
  • freakstreak
    freakstreak Posts: 45 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    1. Since the beta
    2. A Before the Alerts, B- Afterwards, and sadly the rating is slowly dropping..
    3. Thoughts :
    Seriously, i'm not sure from where to start.. Feelings are a bit mixed up these days about the game, in the point of me debating whether I'll see something interesting and worth my attention again.. Yes, talking about some new content in form of missions/comic series, NOT alerts or in terms of becoming a 9 headed orange monkey :eek:

    The game in overall is still fun and relaxing to play, and i seriously adore the character customization and freedom to create my own unique hero.. What powers i want, whenever and how i want them.. But sadly, nowadays i feel that the game is not getting the much needed attention it deserves..

    The Nemesis system should get an upgrade, but it's simply forgotten.. Cryptic had a really nice thing going with Adventure Packs, then they stopped them, replacing them with Comic Series.. At first, i was skeptical with the change, but later on i found it awesome.. We had new weekly content, and by the end of the month, another solid story to enjoy........but again it didn't last..

    Nowadays? Alerts? And a "Become a vehicle" Device, with an insane amount of lockboxes drop that simply "Forces" you to buy keys from the store? I mean, seriously?

    Don't get me wrong, CO is still the #1 game on my MMOs list (followed close by a prematurely dying MMO i used to play since 2005), and i'll keep playing it.. I love this game, always had, always will.. I simply hate to see that Cryptic ignores it in such cruel fashion.. I really hope they'll prove me wrong soon, i really do...