FC.31.20121030.14 PTS Update

lordgar · November 2012

PTS update FC.31.20121030.14
This build is scheduled to hit PTS by 6:00pm Pacific on 11/15/12

Greetings!

We're updating PTS with the upcoming update build to test stability, as well as verifying a few bug fixes we addressed following last week's Live push.

Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens

Powers
- IDF and Mental Discipline are no longer cancelled by powers that Interrupt.
- Ascension is now removed by Nailed to the Ground. To compensate for this Ascension now heals yourself and nearby allies on activation of the power.

blademaster5121 · November 2012

lordgar wrote: »

PTS update FC.31.20121030.14
This build is scheduled to hit PTS by 6:00pm Pacific on 11/15/12

Greetings!

We're updating PTS with the upcoming update build to test stability, as well as verifying a few bug fixes we addressed following last week's Live push.

Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens

Powers
- IDF and Mental Discipline are no longer cancelled by powers that Interrupt.
- Ascension is now removed by Nailed to the Ground. To compensate for this Ascension now heals yourself and nearby allies on activation of the power.

YAY!! Ascension has been fixed! Hover, since it heals, its acting more like an AD than an AO (it always has honestly) can we change it into an Active Defense?

deisticbrace · November 2012

My question with the change to ascension is if the +healing/damage will be dispelled with the application of NTTG.

speedrope01 · November 2012

are they secretly trying to help pvp?

deisticbrace · November 2012

speedrope01 wrote: »

are they secretly trying to help pvp?

Maybe. The only thing that raises my attention to this change is that it makes Ascension the only Active Offense to have two means of dispelling (Off the top of my head.)

blademaster5121 · November 2012

To add to what I said just before, Ascension granting a heal and flight makes it Active Defense worthy, remove the damage bonus, make breakfree and advantage and possibly tone down the +healing bonus, make it an AD, it should basically be Resurgeance with flight and an added healing bonus for the duration. ACTIVE DEFENSE OR OFFENSE, THIS POWER STILL MUST BE BALANCED WITH THAT OF RESURGEANCE, AND I'D MUCH PREFER A POWER THAT HEALS TO BE CONSIDERED DEFENSIVE, NOT OFFENSIVE.

deisticbrace · November 2012

blademaster5121 wrote: »

To add to what I said just before, Ascension granting a heal and flight makes it Active Defense worthy, remove the damage bonus, make breakfree and advantage and possibly tone down the +healing bonus, make it an AD, it should basically be Resurgeance with flight and an added healing bonus for the duration. ACTIVE DEFENSE OR OFFENSE, THIS POWER STILL MUST BE BALANCED WITH THAT OF RESURGEANCE, AND I'D MUCH PREFER A POWER THAT HEALS TO BE CONSIDERED DEFENSIVE, NOT OFFENSIVE.

Eff you Ryder, I make use of that bonus 21% damage that totally doesn't push into diminishing returns thanks to 442.2 offense and Seraphim at all! Yup. Though it'd be odd having it as an active defense, as it'd be the only energy form AD. Flavour wise, it fits more in the AO slot, but I can see it being shifted to AD. It'd become a bad AD, maybe even worse than Unbreakable. The flight isn't going to be super useful in pve, as rever mob has a ranged attack of some sort, more or less. (Is there a mob that doesn't? Point me to him so I can cherry tap him to death and laugh.) Bonus healing as an AD is kind of shoddy, since it most likely won't affect things like drones, which are kind of a popular self heal for pve last I checked.

I'd personally suggest having ascension ive you two different buffs and leave it as is. One buff for the bonus damage/heal and one for the flight, so the bonus damage/healing not something that is so easily removed by tapping a lunge or a brick mob hitting shockwave or that silly tongue knock to that zombies have.

pricanwarrior · November 2012

and here comes the crying :P

theapygoos · November 2012

blademaster5121 wrote: »

To add to what I said just before, Ascension granting a heal and flight makes it Active Defense worthy, remove the damage bonus, make breakfree and advantage and possibly tone down the +healing bonus, make it an AD, it should basically be Resurgeance with flight and an added healing bonus for the duration. ACTIVE DEFENSE OR OFFENSE, THIS POWER STILL MUST BE BALANCED WITH THAT OF RESURGEANCE, AND I'D MUCH PREFER A POWER THAT HEALS TO BE CONSIDERED DEFENSIVE, NOT OFFENSIVE.

balanced with resurgence, but ehal scales with PRE? i can deal with that

deisticbrace · November 2012

pricanwarrior wrote: »

and here comes the crying :P

-Completely- removing -all- of Ascension's bonuses via nailed to the ground is a bit much. The healing and damage should not be lost with the travel component. Removing the flight via NTTG? Sure! Removing the healing and damage? Goes a tad too far, in my opinion. Granted, it's probably easier to just have NTTG remove the whole buff than it is to create two seperate buffs for damage/healing component and the travel component.

underchicken · November 2012

lordgar wrote: »

- IDF and Mental Discipline are no longer cancelled by powers that Interrupt.

Well this got squared away much sooner then expected, and I'm quite glad to see it. I should sick Ravenforce after you Devs more often.

Keep up the good work on squashin' them bugs while I try and find you guys a bigger mallet!(Them things are EVERYWHERE):biggrin:

*whispers to Ravenforce* Hey... Pst... Can you get them to bring IDF and Mental Discipline in line with the other forms on energy return and stacking mechanics too?

sigmaseven0 · November 2012

speedrope01 wrote: »

are they secretly trying to help pvp?

Is that was the case, they would add questionite rewarding daily missions for pvp queues.

keikomyst · November 2012

My only reaction to Ascension finally being Nailable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs

underchicken · November 2012

blademaster5121 wrote: »

YAY!! Ascension has been fixed! However, since it heals, its acting more like an AD than an AO (it always has honestly) can we change it into an Active Defense?

I second this ^

Also, now that Imbue is the AO of the Celestial set it would make much more sense to officially make Ascension the AD of the set.

What if Ascension focused on the healing side of things with a big burst heal when activated that also boosted all healing for a large %. NTTG should ONLY disable the flight aspect of this power.

Rework IMBUE to add in the damage buff lost from Ascension, maybe give it a higher damage buff when at full health and less when at 1/3 health(Opposite of the crit bonus.) Then you don't have to keep saving the power till your nearly dead to get the full benefit from it. Definetly keep the crit bonus how it is as it helps with crit heals to bounce back in the fight.

This could make for an awesome pairing me thinks.

deisticbrace · November 2012

underchicken wrote: »

I second this ^

Also, now that Imbue is the AO of the Celestial set it would make much more sense to officially make Ascension the AD of the set.

What if Ascension focused on the healing side of things with a big burst heal when activated that also boosted all healing for a large %. NTTG should ONLY disable the flight aspect of this power.

Rework IMBUE to add in the damage buff lost from Ascension, maybe give it a higher damage buff when at full health and less when at 1/3 health(Opposite of the crit bonus.) Then you don't have to keep saving the power till your nearly dead to get the full benefit from it. Definetly keep the crit bonus how it is as it helps with crit heals to bounce back in the fight.

This could make for an awesome pairing me thinks.

Some of these ideas would be really awesome. I'd also like to see imbue get an animation back. It's probably coding that makes it impossible to seperate the flight from the rest of the power, so I can understand we may not see NTTG and Ascension interact this way.

underchicken · November 2012

Was pondering over the fx of these 2 powers, Imbue and Ascension. I never did like how these powers basically shared the same FX(minus the wings on Imbue.)

What if we gave Imbue a new FX, something with mini explosion of celestial light in a small sphere that adds a holy aura outline around your(something like Ego Surge but more celestial looking.)

As for Ascension keep it the same but add to showcase the AoE heal on activation add a large AoE energy ripple type effect. Maybe toss in some pixie dust. I dunno.

Just some thoughts. I've been seeing Splosions doing some great looking stuff and I wanna keep him busy.:biggrin:

underchicken · November 2012

Sorry, but the tiny gears in my brain are hard at work tonight.:biggrin:

Seeing how we're kind of sort of on the talk of Active Defenses....

Could we get some buffs to some of our other ADs to bring them up to speed with Masterful Dodge?

Like RESURGENCE. Along with the big heal, can we maybe add a healing %bonus that last 15 seconds or something?

And UNBREAKABLE. This just needs WAY more damage abosorbtion added to it. WAY MORE!

FIELD SURGE. This one prolly needs WAY more damage abosorbtion also. Haven't used it in forever.

Masterful Dodge is the clear cut winner among ADs currently. It puts a halt to damage taken for 15 seconds and when paired with BCR will heal you nearly back to full health 90% of the time.

xaogarrent · November 2012

underchicken wrote: »

Sorry, but the tiny gears in my brain are hard at work tonight.:biggrin:

Seeing how we're kind of sort of on the talk of Active Defenses....

Could we get some buffs to some of our other ADs to bring them up to speed with Masterful Dodge?

Like RESURGENCE. Along with the big heal, can we maybe add a healing %bonus that last 15 seconds or something?

And UNBREAKABLE. This just needs WAY more damage abosorbtion added to it. WAY MORE!

FIELD SURGE. This one prolly needs WAY more damage abosorbtion also. Haven't used it in forever.

Masterful Dodge is the clear cut winner among ADs currently. It puts a halt to damage taken for 15 seconds and when paired with BCR will heal you nearly back to full health 90% of the time.

Unless the devs intend to undo their horrible mistake and nerf Gravitar, rework the other upcoming rampage alert, and possibly even nerf Warlord's firepatch, any buff to the ADs that aren't Masterful Dodge would need to be astronomical to matter. Every other AD is essentially an EHP bonus of some sort, whereas Masterful Dodge is a flat defense buff that grants its full effect over the entire duration.

For instance... In order for Unbreakable to do what Masterful Dodge does for a player against Gravitar, it would have to grant something on the order of a 40K shield. This is because, not only is her damage completely ridiculous, all the AD shields in the game happen before other forms of mitigation. So in order to allow you to survive having an inescapable yellow bubble cast directly on top of you the way MD does, it would have to be able to half the damage BEFORE block and resistance, rather than after.

So if we're to assume that broken as hell instagibbing content is the future of CO's "end game," we better be prepared for more excessive numbers. Or y'know, we could just nerf Gravitar and stop being retarded. While Unbreakable and pretty much all the other active defenses do need a bit of help, much of the reason they're feeling even less competitive than usual lately has to do with what they're being used against.

blasphemouswords · November 2012

I do think NTTG removing Ascension is going a bit too far but I will support NTTG removing the flight aspect.

As for changing Imbue to Celestial's AO (with a little buffing) and Ascension to AD, I could see myself supporting this especially as Celestial's AO/AD pair.

blademaster5121 · November 2012

As far as Imbue being the Celestial AO, I think it needs to be uniformized with all other AOs, including giving it breakfree, having it not cost energy, and possibly lower its crit bonuses for +alldamage, not exactly a buff, but a rebalance.

Ascension needs to be an AD, its practically an AD as it is, it boosts healing and now grants an INSTANT heal on activation, along with its great flight. Speaking of which, I know a way to get Ascension's flight nailed without breaking the whole power, seperate ascension into 2 buffs, the first being everything but the flight itself, the second being solely the flight, call it 'ascended' and have ascended removed by NTTG, not Ascension itself.

theravenforce · November 2012

underchicken wrote: »

Well this got squared away much sooner then expected, and I'm quite glad to see it. I should sick Ravenforce after you Devs more often.

Keep up the good work on squashin' them bugs while I try and find you guys a bigger mallet!(Them things are EVERYWHERE):biggrin:

*whispers to Ravenforce* Hey... Pst... Can you get them to bring IDF and Mental Discipline in line with the other forms on energy return and stacking mechanics too?

I'll see what I can do...:cool:

But yes @Dev Team YAY!!!!!! Thanks for fixing IDF and Mental Discipline ^^, now onto MOAR changes.

IDF and Mental, do need to be brought in line with the forms we have today, i.e. stacking mechanics. This was suggested by gamehobo and myself a while back, so I'll only comment on my suggestion which was for IDF:

IDF:

- Grant it stacks of increasing absorption to incoming damage.
- Allow this to stack to 8
- Stack should give 10 damage absorb per stack
- This damage absorb bonus should be applied to team as well
- IDF should increase shield regeneration speeds in combat for PFF (perhaps by x2 when at 8 stacks)
- Stacks are granted per incoming damage (similar to how Manip works with holds i.e. quickly)

Also the energy regeneration and recovery penalty should be removed and replaced with a standard energy cost -10% discount OR it could be kept but at the lowered percentage of 5%.

The New standarised IDF would require lockdown to activate similar to Concentration and other forms.

I think this would help not only IDF to be a uniform form power but also would be a good defensive form and work with an inset power which thanks to the Dev team can actually benefit from it.

For Ascension...I'd prefer if NTTG, did what Psionic Surge does to flight powers instead of completely removing it.

I.E. Psionic Surge grants flight -100 flight height, so they literally hover JUST above the ground and can only move left or right really fast and cannot fly up at all, for as long as the effect is active.

If NTTG did that to Ascension, I think that would be a better move to nerf flying upwards instead of removing everything just because this AO (which should be an AD IMO) can grant flight.

But it's a step in the right direction!!

theravenforce · November 2012

underchicken wrote: »

Well this got squared away much sooner then expected, and I'm quite glad to see it. I should sick Ravenforce after you Devs more often.

Keep up the good work on squashin' them bugs while I try and find you guys a bigger mallet!(Them things are EVERYWHERE):biggrin:

*whispers to Ravenforce* Hey... Pst... Can you get them to bring IDF and Mental Discipline in line with the other forms on energy return and stacking mechanics too?

underchicken wrote: »

Sorry, but the tiny gears in my brain are hard at work tonight.:biggrin:

Seeing how we're kind of sort of on the talk of Active Defenses....

Could we get some buffs to some of our other ADs to bring them up to speed with Masterful Dodge?

Like RESURGENCE. Along with the big heal, can we maybe add a healing %bonus that last 15 seconds or something?

And UNBREAKABLE. This just needs WAY more damage abosorbtion added to it. WAY MORE!

FIELD SURGE. This one prolly needs WAY more damage abosorbtion also. Haven't used it in forever.

Masterful Dodge is the clear cut winner among ADs currently. It puts a halt to damage taken for 15 seconds and when paired with BCR will heal you nearly back to full health 90% of the time.

xaogarrent wrote: »

Unless the devs intend to undo their horrible mistake and nerf Gravitar, rework the other upcoming rampage alert, and possibly even nerf Warlord's firepatch, any buff to the ADs that aren't Masterful Dodge would need to be astronomical to matter. Every other AD is essentially an EHP bonus of some sort, whereas Masterful Dodge is a flat defense buff that grants its full effect over the entire duration.

For instance... In order for Unbreakable to do what Masterful Dodge does for a player against Gravitar, it would have to grant something on the order of a 40K shield. This is because, not only is her damage completely ridiculous, all the AD shields in the game happen before other forms of mitigation. So in order to allow you to survive having an inescapable yellow bubble cast directly on top of you the way MD does, it would have to be able to half the damage BEFORE block and resistance, rather than after.

So if we're to assume that broken as hell instagibbing content is the future of CO's "end game," we better be prepared for more excessive numbers. Or y'know, we could just nerf Gravitar and stop being retarded. While Unbreakable and pretty much all the other active defenses do need a bit of help, much of the reason they're feeling even less competitive than usual lately has to do with what they're being used against.

^This.

Highlighted especially. A few players and I suggested ways to fix AD's in game but the problem is that the instances in which we count on them they die almost instantly.

Whilst challenging content is great (once you know how to do it

) making AD's less attractive in dire situations is annoying.

I wouldnt so much nerf Gravibiatch, I'd rather put things like Unbreakable back where it was pre On Alert, i.e. it continued to refresh for full duration of 15 secs. I'll post the ideas here soon

theravenforce · November 2012

I propose some sort of quickfire AD buff or review, currently the only AD's I think which need to be buffed are Breakable (formerly known as Unbreakable before On Alert) and Field Surge. Unbreakable currently does not provide enough damage absorption to be on the same usefulness level as Masterful Dodge or Resurgance, it was enough before and only was weakish against DoT/DPS. It now hardly helps at all

. I remember the days when Unbreakable was quite good and it did used to make you feel unbreakable! My behemoth would just jump into a crowd and pop it and soak up all the fun for a while. But now if she does that, the AD's defense is over in less than 6 seconds at most.

(Un)Breakable - For this AD, I vote give it a generous buff to damage absorption over the 15 secs it is active. I'd advocate a very high number like 5k BUT the refresh needs to be constantly active regardless of if incoming damage is over 5k and should continue refeshing for duration. Unbreakable shouldnt be the only AD which can be overcome very easily overwhelmed before it's duration is up. Giving it seemingly insane numbers for damage absorbtion will give it is sense of Unbreakability back. An example of where I think Unbreakable is failing is in one of my characters, I recently looked at my behemoth char who uses Unbreakable, she has 370 CON and the Unbreakable is rank 3 and it only provides just over 1/5th of her HP protection. Not to mention how useless it is in Gravitar when she can just one shot it off you. If the 30k defense shield buff lasted the entire 15 seconds, so it couldnt be prematurely deactivated similar to how Masterful Dodge functions it would be an improvement along with the damage abosorb mechanic. I was thinking that Unbreakable (if one shotted off by Gravitar or something) could be restored to 75% of it's full potential, which each large chunk removed in one shot is refreshed for the 15 seconds but in decreasing increments? Not sure if this is too much but I think it is an ok idea.

Field Surge - For this AD, again I'd advocate a higher shielding rate perhaps? I know that I can get about 4.1k shielding from it, which in most instances is helpful as it is thankfully applied over PFF. But I note that even "trash" mobs in enough numbers can deal over 4k damage pretty quickly, so for shielding, I'd advocate a slightly higher shielding threshold to around 4.9- 5.3k. I think for sure that the healing Field Surge does to PFF may require a buff to around 6k healing/recharge to PFF. Again, it should not deactivate over the time it is meant to be active for. It may require insane shielding levels to support this need. Perhaps around the same level as Unbreakable for the 15 seconds. That being said, it would not be affected by Compassion, PRE or any other shielding buffs apart from Stats and Ranking up the power.

I feel that non Invuln/Dodge-Avoid mechanics are quite weak, I know that damage resistance is also quite strong but AD's and PFF seem quite weak. My suggestions were posted on another forum but due to Gentleman Crush asking for people to stay on topic, I decided to move it here.

I know that PFF is quite weak anyway, but I'm not going to break the forums with my ranting about it. I'll just stick to AD's here

(But it got buffed by Devs yay!)

I do realise at first glance my suggestions may seem OP but when damage output of high endgame bosses is equated, I am sure you will see where I am comming from.

At first I did propose 30K shielding for Unbreakable (inspired by Gravitar V__V) which would explain why I talked about my values being waay OTT.

thesoulstar · November 2012

blademaster5121 wrote: »

YAY!! Ascension has been fixed! Hover, since it heals, its acting more like an AD than an AO (it always has honestly) can we change it into an Active Defense?

I am in total agreement with Ryder here about changing ascension to an AD instead of an AO. Causes lets face it, it really has always been more of an AD no matter what build you put it in.

thesoulstar · November 2012

blademaster5121 wrote: »

As far as Imbue being the Celestial AO, I think it needs to be uniformized with all other AOs, including giving it breakfree, having it not cost energy, and possibly lower its crit bonuses for +alldamage, not exactly a buff, but a rebalance.

Ascension needs to be an AD, its practically an AD as it is, it boosts healing and now grants an INSTANT heal on activation, along with its great flight. Speaking of which, I know a way to get Ascension's flight nailed without breaking the whole power, seperate ascension into 2 buffs, the first being everything but the flight itself, the second being solely the flight, call it 'ascended' and have ascended removed by NTTG, not Ascension itself.

*points* To all of this? Yes. Do it. Now. Right now.

theravenforce · November 2012

thesoulstar wrote: »

*points* To all of this? Yes. Do it. Now. Right now.

how about NTTG doing what Psionic surge does to flight powers to ascension (described a few posts up)

thesoulstar · November 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

how about NTTG doing what Psionic surge does to flight powers to ascension (described a few posts up)

theravenforce wrote: »

I'll see what I can do...:cool:

But yes @Dev Team YAY!!!!!! Thanks for fixing IDF and Mental Discipline ^^, now onto MOAR changes.

IDF and Mental, do need to be brought in line with the forms we have today, i.e. stacking mechanics. This was suggested by gamehobo and myself a while back, so I'll only comment on my suggestion which was for IDF:

IDF:

- Grant it stacks of increasing absorption to incoming damage.
- Allow this to stack to 8
- Stack should give 10 damage absorb per stack
- This damage absorb bonus should be applied to team as well
- IDF should increase shield regeneration speeds in combat for PFF (perhaps by x2 when at 8 stacks)
- Stacks are granted per incoming damage (similar to how Manip works with holds i.e. quickly)

Also the energy regeneration and recovery penalty should be removed and replaced with a standard energy cost -10% discount OR it could be kept but at the lowered percentage of 5%.

The New standarised IDF would require lockdown to activate similar to Concentration and other forms.

I think this would help not only IDF to be a uniform form power but also would be a good defensive form and work with an inset power which thanks to the Dev team can actually benefit from it.

For Ascension...I'd prefer if NTTG, did what Psionic Surge does to flight powers instead of completely removing it.

I.E. Psionic Surge grants flight -100 flight height, so they literally hover JUST above the ground and can only move left or right really fast and cannot fly up at all, for as long as the effect is active.

If NTTG did that to Ascension, I think that would be a better move to nerf flying upwards instead of removing everything just because this AO (which should be an AD IMO) can grant flight.

But it's a step in the right direction!!

I actually was about to respond to this one after reading it but since I've been personally called up to the front to respond; This ain't a bad suggestion either. Not to mention it wouldn't be as annoying in PVP/PVE situations and still fit within people's conceptual builds.
By the way the suggestion for IDF? I've been dreaming of that since it was first introduced. Personally I kinda want something similar for Mental Discipline as well so that IDF isn't just the only alternative defensive toggle on the block by using the mental leech aspect to help stack up to 8 times into your flat defense.Or something to that effect; but I do agree it does need to be spruced up a bit.

nam19772 · November 2012

Travel powers from the Questionite Store can't be tainted.

underchicken · November 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

IDF:

- Grant it stacks of increasing absorption to incoming damage.
- Allow this to stack to 8
- Stack should give 10 damage absorb per stack
- This damage absorb bonus should be applied to team as well
- IDF should increase shield regeneration speeds in combat for PFF (perhaps by x2 when at 8 stacks)
- Stacks are granted per incoming damage (similar to how Manip works with holds i.e. quickly)
- IDF should receive energy when gaining a stack (Could scale with END, EGO, or possibly even PRE. END would be my preferred choice.)

Also the energy regeneration and recovery penalty should be removed and replaced with a standard energy cost -10% discount OR it could be kept but at the lowered percentage of 5%.

The New standarised IDF would require lockdown to activate similar to Concentration and other forms.

I think this would help not only IDF to be a uniform form power but also would be a good defensive form and work with an inset power which thanks to the Dev team can actually benefit from it.

EXACTLY THIS^

Added one thing there in the yellow for ya to make it perfect.

Now I have been contemplating how to make this power NOT be overpowered because of the fact that it's a team buff also. Here is what I came up with.....

Style 1)

IDF(On a level 40 with maxed out stats) should start out around 70-80 absorption upon activation(first stack.) It then will go on to stack up to 8x granting an additional 10 pts of absorption each stack(a full 8 stacks would equal 140-150.)

Now, the team buff portion of the power should start out much less and scale up with PRE. If your a support build wanting to use IDF instead of Compassion, then it needs to scale accordingly so that they're on the same playing field.

Style 2)

A different way of doing the same thing would be for IDF to change what its better at depending on the ROLE your in.

Tank=HIGH SELF PROTECTION/LOW TEAM PROTECTION
Hybrid= MEDIUM SELF PROTECTION/MEDIUM TEAM PROTECTOIN
Melee/Ranged DPS=VERY HIGH SELF PROTECTION/NO TEAM PROTECTION
Support=MEDIUM SELF PROTECTION/VERY HIGH TEAM PROTECTION

All these numbers should be based off whatever brings the Support team buff in line with the buffing to healing that Compassion grants.

I'm not sure which style would be best, but I do believe something should be done about the team buffing aspect of IDF so that we can bring the power in line with other Forms easier.

Also, I'm not sure but I believe IDF is the ONLY FORM that scales with SUPER STATS. I personally feel this is what ALL FORMS should be doing. Why not just have the ENERGY RETURN portion of each form scale with certain stats instead?

underchicken · November 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

I propose some sort of quickfire AD buff or review, currently the only AD's I think which need to be buffed are Breakable (formerly known as Unbreakable before On Alert) and Field Surge. Unbreakable currently does not provide enough damage absorption to be on the same usefulness level as Masterful Dodge or Resurgance, it was enough before and only was weakish against DoT/DPS. It now hardly helps at all . I remember the days when Unbreakable was quite good and it did used to make you feel unbreakable! My behemoth would just jump into a crowd and pop it and soak up all the fun for a while. But now if she does that, the AD's defense is over in less than 6 seconds at most.

(Un)Breakable - For this AD, I vote give it a generous buff to damage absorption over the 15 secs it is active. I'd advocate a very high number like 5k BUT the refresh needs to be constantly active regardless of if incoming damage is over 5k and should continue refeshing for duration. Unbreakable shouldnt be the only AD which can be overcome very easily overwhelmed before it's duration is up. Giving it seemingly insane numbers for damage absorbtion will give it is sense of Unbreakability back. An example of where I think Unbreakable is failing is in one of my characters, I recently looked at my behemoth char who uses Unbreakable, she has 370 CON and the Unbreakable is rank 3 and it only provides just over 1/5th of her HP protection. Not to mention how useless it is in Gravitar when she can just one shot it off you. If the 30k defense shield buff lasted the entire 15 seconds, so it couldnt be prematurely deactivated similar to how Masterful Dodge functions it would be an improvement along with the damage abosorb mechanic. I was thinking that Unbreakable (if one shotted off by Gravitar or something) could be restored to 75% of it's full potential, which each large chunk removed in one shot is refreshed for the 15 seconds but in decreasing increments? Not sure if this is too much but I think it is an ok idea.

Field Surge - For this AD, again I'd advocate a higher shielding rate perhaps? I know that I can get about 4.1k shielding from it, which in most instances is helpful as it is thankfully applied over PFF. But I note that even "trash" mobs in enough numbers can deal over 4k damage pretty quickly, so for shielding, I'd advocate a slightly higher shielding threshold to around 4.9- 5.3k. I think for sure that the healing Field Surge does to PFF may require a buff to around 6k healing/recharge to PFF. Again, it should not deactivate over the time it is meant to be active for. It may require insane shielding levels to support this need. Perhaps around the same level as Unbreakable for the 15 seconds. That being said, it would not be affected by Compassion, PRE or any other shielding buffs apart from Stats and Ranking up the power.

I feel that non Invuln/Dodge-Avoid mechanics are quite weak, I know that damage resistance is also quite strong but AD's and PFF seem quite weak. My suggestions were posted on another forum but due to Gentleman Crush asking for people to stay on topic, I decided to move it here.

I know that PFF is quite weak anyway, but I'm not going to break the forums with my ranting about it. I'll just stick to AD's here (But it got buffed by Devs yay!)

I do realise at first glance my suggestions may seem OP but when damage output of high endgame bosses is equated, I am sure you will see where I am comming from.

At first I did propose 30K shielding for Unbreakable (inspired by Gravitar V__V) which would explain why I talked about my values being waay OTT.

Yeah, not so much.

In response to the highlighted portion those suggested numbers seem far to low still. We're playing a game in which PLAYERS(Not GRAVITAR) can hit you for 20k+ on a single hit. Masterful Dodge stops this and gives you a 15 second breather to get back in the fight.
How do we get the rest on that same page.

Resurgence currently grants you a single heal, while it's a good heal it can basically be outdone by normal heals in a 15 second time frame. Think about how many Conviction Crits you can pull off in 15 seconds. Resurgence needs something more on top of the big heal. Something like a 50% heal buff, or a damage resistance bonus for 15 seconds.

Unbreakable is prolly the worst right now. All it takes is one good hit and it's gone. Sure it regens a bit back but it's not enough to make it useful. I say remove the regen portion of this power altogether. Layer Unbreakable underneath ALL other forms of damage negation, and then give it a flat 3-5k damage absorption. Come on, it's called UNBREAKABLE.

Field Surge being layered OVER everything now makes it a little trickier to make worthwhile. I'll leave this one to Ravenforce, seems to be her bag. :biggrin:

theravenforce · November 2012

underchicken wrote: »

EXACTLY THIS^

Added one thing there in the yellow for ya to make it perfect.

Now I have been contemplating how to make this power NOT be overpowered because of the fact that it's a team buff also. Here is what I came up with.....

Style 1)

IDF(On a level 40 with maxed out stats) should start out around 70-80 absorption upon activation(first stack.) It then will go on to stack up to 8x granting an additional 10 pts of absorption each stack(a full 8 stacks would equal 140-150.)

Now, the team buff portion of the power should start out much less and scale up with PRE. If your a support build wanting to use IDF instead of Compassion, then it needs to scale accordingly so that they're on the same playing field.

Style 2)

A different way of doing the same thing would be for IDF to change what its better at depending on the ROLE your in.

Tank=HIGH SELF PROTECTION/LOW TEAM PROTECTION
Hybrid= MEDIUM SELF PROTECTION/MEDIUM TEAM PROTECTOIN
Melee/Ranged DPS=VERY HIGH SELF PROTECTION/NO TEAM PROTECTION
Support=MEDIUM SELF PROTECTION/VERY HIGH TEAM PROTECTION

All these numbers should be based off whatever brings the Support team buff in line with the buffing to healing that Compassion grants.

I'm not sure which style would be best, but I do believe something should be done about the team buffing aspect of IDF so that we can bring the power in line with other Forms easier.

Also, I'm not sure but I believe IDF is the ONLY FORM that scales with SUPER STATS. I personally feel this is what ALL FORMS should be doing. Why not just have the ENERGY RETURN portion of each form scale with certain stats instead?

Ah yes, energy return is something I forgot xP. END is a definite choice IMO, not alot or really anything scales with it so this could be a first.

However, I'd prefer if the damage absorb stayed where it is now and worked its way up instead of starting low. For example: My IDF (not sure if it is the same for everyone) at rank 3 grants me 131 damage absorb to my PFF, adding 10 dmg absorb per stack (stacks would be named Force Defense or something etc) and x8 = extra 80 dmg absorb granting me a total of 211 damage absorb to my PFF, and to everyone else, whilst that may not be enough coupled with other things like dodging and blocking it could be enough.

underchicken wrote: »

Yeah, not so much.

In response to the highlighted portion those suggested numbers seem far to low still. We're playing a game in which PLAYERS(Not GRAVITAR) can hit you for 20k+ on a single hit. Masterful Dodge stops this and gives you a 15 second breather to get back in the fight.
How do we get the rest on that same page.

Resurgence currently grants you a single heal, while it's a good heal it can basically be outdone by normal heals in a 15 second time frame. Think about how many Conviction Crits you can pull off in 15 seconds. Resurgence needs something more on top of the big heal. Something like a 50% heal buff, or a damage resistance bonus for 15 seconds.

Unbreakable is prolly the worst right now. All it takes is one good hit and it's gone. Sure it regens a bit back but it's not enough to make it useful. I say remove the regen portion of this power altogether. Layer Unbreakable underneath ALL other forms of damage negation, and then give it a flat 3-5k damage absorption. Come on, it's called UNBREAKABLE.

Field Surge being layered OVER everything now makes it a little trickier to make worthwhile. I'll leave this one to Ravenforce, seems to be her bag. :biggrin:

Well when I first started this thread about AD's a lot of people agreed with my initial values then naysayers came along and sort of trashed it.

I did say my initial values were very high. Unbreakable should be just that IMO, even if it is for 15 secs, 15 secs of pure unbreakability, so I suggested at least a 30k damage shield for 15 secs.

As for Field Surge, thats a tricky AD to buff, if you buff it too much it can become overpowering I think, but given that it isnt affected by IDF (last time I checked) a 10k shield which is affected by dodge + resistances should be ok and a 9k PFF healing component up from 4.6k

theravenforce · November 2012

underchicken wrote: »

Style 1)

IDF(On a level 40 with maxed out stats) should start out around 70-80 absorption upon activation(first stack.) It then will go on to stack up to 8x granting an additional 10 pts of absorption each stack(a full 8 stacks would equal 140-150.)

This value is only 19 points higher than my current IDF, so a massive no no here please, start from base i.e. 131 and build up from there.

underchicken wrote: »

Now, the team buff portion of the power should start out much less and scale up with PRE. If your a support build wanting to use IDF instead of Compassion, then it needs to scale accordingly so that they're on the same playing field.

The issue here is that it would be a next to worthless team portion, if you have everything scale for IDF on END or PRE "whichever is higher" style, it would be much better, that way builds which want to be solo but help support team from time to time, can do so.

underchicken wrote: »

Style 2)

A different way of doing the same thing would be for IDF to change what its better at depending on the ROLE your in.

Tank=HIGH SELF PROTECTION/LOW TEAM PROTECTION
Hybrid= MEDIUM SELF PROTECTION/MEDIUM TEAM PROTECTOIN
Melee/Ranged DPS=VERY HIGH SELF PROTECTION/NO TEAM PROTECTION
Support=MEDIUM SELF PROTECTION/VERY HIGH TEAM PROTECTION

All these numbers should be based off whatever brings the Support team buff in line with the buffing to healing that Compassion grants.

I'm not sure which style would be best, but I do believe something should be done about the team buffing aspect of IDF so that we can bring the power in line with other Forms easier.

Also, I'm not sure but I believe IDF is the ONLY FORM that scales with SUPER STATS. I personally feel this is what ALL FORMS should be doing. Why not just have the ENERGY RETURN portion of each form scale with certain stats instead?

With regard to Style 2... I can see some potential issues with melee/ranged DPS, I don't think many of them would use IDF for their form power. I think that IDF should have increased usefulness with PFF personally. But for protection wise, IDF should be the same across the board like other forms are, regardless of role.

mainscrizz · November 2012

lulz, they should just go ahead and make all powers the same and give them different skins.

That's the way we're heading. :biggrin:

@RavenForce:

10 per stack isn't enough lol.
25 per stack is better.

bloodx13 · November 2012

just to throw in some perspective form the pvp side of things with the current way of pvp:

addind NTTG to this power will just allow for more trolling in pvp especially of melee players.

Its kind of a double edged sword as it will allow melee pvpers to actually close distance better against range fliers but it will also allow for more trolling or spawn killing. Currently in PvP the majority of players are ether range or running strafe and shadow strike. The is a group of players that enjoy nothing more then killing someone at the spawn point before they even get their toggle or travel power up.

Ascension currently allows you an escape form that spawn hold etc.. and give you the opportunity to get your travel power and toggle on to reenter the fight correctly. So I get that this is a pvp problem but as we all know the devs arent interested in making a delay time on attack or anything else for pvp. Meaning that we have to try and go at fixes power by power, this change may work out and help close on kiters etc.. but i fear it may only help the troll in pvp.

just my take on things.

theravenforce · November 2012

mainscrizz wrote: »

l
@RavenForce:

10 per stack isn't enough lol.
25 per stack is better.

Hmm...yes I am aware it may not be enough but then I took into consideration Invuln and people saying OMG IDF overshadows Invuln or something like that. But yes if it was increased to 25 per stack...+ my current IDF value =

331 dmg absorb xDD @ 8 Stacks

Sounds groovy!

*Runs to Dev Team and tugs on trouser leg*

Deeeeeeeeeeevvvvvsss...you know you love me...x3

theravenforce · November 2012

bloodx13 wrote: »

just to throw in some perspective form the pvp side of things with the current way of pvp:

addind NTTG to this power will just allow for more trolling in pvp especially of melee players.

Its kind of a double edged sword as it will allow melee pvpers to actually close distance better against range fliers but it will also allow for more trolling or spawn killing. Currently in PvP the majority of players are ether range or running strafe and shadow strike. The is a group of players that enjoy nothing more then killing someone at the spawn point before they even get their toggle or travel power up.

Ascension currently allows you an escape form that spawn hold etc.. and give you the opportunity to get your travel power and toggle on to reenter the fight correctly. So I get that this is a pvp problem but as we all know the devs arent interested in making a delay time on attack or anything else for pvp. Meaning that we have to try and go at fixes power by power, this change may work out and help close on kiters etc.. but i fear it may only help the troll in pvp.

just my take on things.

That is very true.

Then people might begin to say Melee is OP.

Ascension is the one good thing to get some distance... but I think adding NTTG effect to it, but in the style of Psionic Surge is a good idea...

bloodx13 · November 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

That is very true.

Then people might begin to say Melee is OP.

Ascension is the one good thing to get some distance... but I think adding NTTG effect to it, but in the style of Psionic Surge is a good idea...

not sure if you fully understood what i was saying.

positive : closes gap between melee and range a bit

negative: allows trolls to accomplish spawn kills etc.. easier

the only melee that needs scaled back in my opinion is shadow strike the numbers are ridiculous.

theravenforce · November 2012

bloodx13 wrote: »

not sure if you fully understood what i was saying.

positive : closes gap between melee and range a bit

negative: allows trolls to accomplish spawn kills etc.. easier

Well I assume you know what the Psionic Surge Device does to flight powers right?

It stops them from being able to fly high but I believe they still retain their actual flight speed.

I just thought that might be a nice mechanic against Ascension instead of removing buff entirely

stmoth · November 2012

oh, NOW you people want Ascension to be an AD

bloodx13 · November 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

Well I assume you know what the Psionic Surge Device does to flight powers right?

It stops them from being able to fly high but I believe they still retain their actual flight speed.

I just thought that might be a nice mechanic against Ascension instead of removing buff entirely

that might be a good compromise but in the end its all up to the devs so.. *throws hands up *

itsbrou · November 2012

So what if they "troll" people who spawn? That's a behavior problem, not a powers problem.

Resistance sewer "lobby" volume with FFA turned off, with ladder that leads to random manhole covers on the surface of the map. Solved. No power adjustments.

bloodx13 · November 2012

someguywhoplaysgames wrote: »

So what if they "troll" people who spawn? That's a behavior problem, not a powers problem.

Resistance sewer "lobby" volume with FFA turned off, with ladder that leads to random manhole covers on the surface of the map. Solved. No power adjustments.

Thing is we both know they wont spend the time needed to add:

*lobby
*time delay before one can be attacked after spawn
*ladder

and more

Meaning we have to work with what we have which are powers or devices that help us get out of the situation and when one of those options are being taken away we voice our thoughts on it. We all know the devs will put no time towards pvp but maybe they will do less to a powers so the can meet a compromise of sorts.

blademaster5121 · November 2012

bloodx13 wrote: »

Thing is we both know they wont spend the time needed to add:

*lobby
*time delay before one can be attacked after spawn
*ladder

and more

Meaning we have to work with what we have which are powers or devices that help us get out of the situation and when one of those options are being taken away we voice our thoughts on it. We all know the devs will put no time towards pvp but maybe they will do less to a powers so the can meet a compromise of sorts.

How about the standard 3-5 seconds of immunity to incoming damage upon respawn that most MMOs have? Because they have that already implemented, watch what happens when you zone while being attacked :P

gamehobo · November 2012

Ascension perhaps should be considered a transform power instead of an Actiive Power.

Vapor Form and the new Telepathy "Master of the Mind" powers grant the same flight as ascension but they come with restricted power use.

If "Ascension" worked like the "become Celestial" device I could see a great PvE use and also great PvP use (for healers).

Just one suggestion. The flight itself isn't the problem and is a great perk to the power (especially for non flying heroes) however the problem is that it is also usable with 100 ft blasting powers.

The transform powers generally come with large cooldowns and (except for Vapor Form) large returns.

- -

I think when looking at Bezzy Balance I agree that the Ascension doesn't fit as an Active Offense.. but It takes alot of changes in order to get it to fit Acitve Offense and Active Defenses would also take giving it the Active Offense/Defense homogenization.

Since Imbue is already an Active for the Celestial set I think working as a Tier 3 transform power is a good fit

- -

Third point.. Vapor Form sucks offensively and defensively now.. please bring back physical damage immunity

xaogarrent · November 2012

Can we kindly stop suggesting existing powers get transformed into something they're not? This bad habit needs to stop, no matter the reason it's happening. Especially when an already extremely lackluster framework is a casualty in the process.

Putting a burst heal on Ascension is already pushing it, even if it's not completely out of touch with the power's original purpose (a hybrid boost to healing and damage: Note, not an active defense or "transform power" in any way), but turning it into a completely different class of power is really, really pushing it over the edge.

It's bad design. Anyone with an inkling of game design knowledge knows you just don't go drastically changing powers.

theravenforce · November 2012

xaogarrent wrote: »

Can we kindly stop suggesting existing powers get transformed into something they're not? This bad habit needs to stop, no matter the reason it's happening. Especially when an already extremely lackluster framework is a casualty in the process.

Putting a burst heal on Ascension is already pushing it, even if it's not completely out of touch with the power's original purpose (a hybrid boost to healing and damage: Note, not an active defense or "transform power" in any way), but turning it into a completely different class of power is really, really pushing it over the edge.

It's bad design. Anyone with an inkling of game design knowledge knows you just don't go drastically changing powers.

Putting a burst heal on Ascension IMO, is a pathetic attempt to compensate for loosing the entire buff.

No other Active Offensive can be removed this way, granted the flight component of Ascension is very powerful and can make or break a fight, but then just allow NTTG to affect it via -100 Flight Height for the duration so you cant fly higher than just above the ground, whilst maintaining lateral flight speed and control.

Even if this is changed into an Active Defensive, no other AD can be removed as quickly. With the Exception of Field Surge vs Energy Storm on a PFF build. Try that out and you'll see what I mean.

xaogarrent · November 2012

theravenforce wrote: »

Putting a burst heal on Ascension IMO, is a pathetic attempt to compensate for loosing the entire buff.

No other Active Offensive can be removed this way, granted the flight component of Ascension is very powerful and can make or break a fight, but then just allow NTTG to affect it via -100 Flight Height for the duration so you cant fly higher than just above the ground, whilst maintaining lateral flight speed and control.

Even if this is changed into an Active Defensive, no other AD can be removed as quickly. With the Exception of Field Surge vs Energy Storm on a PFF build. Try that out and you'll see what I mean.

It only really makes or breaks a fight in PvP, since in PvE normal flight can have pretty much the exact same effect against the wide majority of melee enemies, in a much more permanent fashion. ...And against ranged enemies, it's practically pointless, you can fly around all you want but that maniac with a 100 foot range homing knife will still poke you in the eye none the less.

Aside from that, this is exactly what I'm thinking, and honestly I'm a little surprised they're making a change, especially a buff, that is so obviously aimed at PvP. As much as I like the heal, I can't help but point out in PvE it's almost completely and totally a buff with no downsides.

I'm guessing they just don't have a feasable way to make only the flight get stripped by TP removers, because that's really all that has ever needed to be done to the power.

theravenforce · November 2012

xaogarrent wrote: »

It only really makes or breaks a fight in PvP, since in PvE normal flight can have pretty much the exact same effect against the wide majority of melee enemies, in a much more permanent fashion. ...And against ranged enemies, it's practically pointless, you can fly around all you want but that maniac with a 100 foot range homing knife will still poke you in the eye none the less.

Aside from that, this is exactly what I'm thinking, and honestly I'm a little surprised they're making a change, especially a buff, that is so obviously aimed at PvP. As much as I like the heal, I can't help but point out in PvE it's almost completely and totally a buff with no downsides.

I'm guessing they just don't have a feasable way to make only the flight get stripped by TP removers, because that's really all that has ever needed to be done to the power.

There is a legacy device called Psionic Surge, which does exactly what I think should be done to Ascension by NTTG to people with Flight Powers.

Also it was pretty funny to throw them at flyers in PvP :biggrin:

Makes NTTG not really that much needed vs flying ppl

underchicken · November 2012

gamehobo wrote: »

Ascension perhaps should be considered a transform power instead of an Actiive Power.

Vapor Form and the new Telepathy "Master of the Mind" powers grant the same flight as ascension but they come with restricted power use.

If "Ascension" worked like the "become Celestial" device I could see a great PvE use and also great PvP use (for healers).

Just one suggestion. The flight itself isn't the problem and is a great perk to the power (especially for non flying heroes) however the problem is that it is also usable with 100 ft blasting powers.

The transform powers generally come with large cooldowns and (except for Vapor Form) large returns.

- -

I think when looking at Bezzy Balance I agree that the Ascension doesn't fit as an Active Offense.. but It takes alot of changes in order to get it to fit Acitve Offense and Active Defenses would also take giving it the Active Offense/Defense homogenization.

Since Imbue is already an Active for the Celestial set I think working as a Tier 3 transform power is a good fit

- -

Third point.. Vapor Form sucks offensively and defensively now.. please bring back physical damage immunity

First off, Vapor Form does suck and needs major buffing.

Secondly, I do believe your on to something by turning Ascension into a Transform Power. The more I think about it the more sense it makes.

ASCENSION: Upon activation you transform into a glowing celestial being of light!(fancy wings included ofcourse.) This power can also be used while dead(Because we really should have a second type of self rez to choose from, and the Celestial set does kind of make sense for one.) Upon Activation you rez ALL nearby teammates(including yourself) up to around 30ft give or take. You then basically becoming this orb of healing(not that your chaining into an actual orb, just a figure of speech.) You constantly send off a strong AoE heal and minor AoE damage to enemies in a 30ft sphere. This effect causes a great amount of agro, so you should also a great amount of resistance or absorbtion for the duration. This power should last roughly 10-15 seconds, but can be cancelled at any time from the power tray. When the power ends, you are drained of all energy and all threat is whiped from you. Ofcourse this power will need a very long cooldown because of the rezzing factor.

May need work here or there, but this sounds like it could be a lot of fun. If not for ascension then maybe a different power altogether? Maybe even a Tier 4 Ultimate Power just for Celestial even?

blkjackwilliams · November 2012

What I'm wondering is, why can't Ascension grant two buffs? Buff one is the +damage/+healing and buff two is the flight. NTTG would cancel the flight, and if it was determined that the flight was that big a mechanic of the power you could even make it so that whenever the flight buff expires (either through NTTG or naturally expiring) you get the burst heal.

That way, NTTG does what it's supposed to do, and Ascension does what it's supposed to do. It doesn't mess with PvE at all, except for the added buff if you place the burst heal in, and PvP had Nailable Ascension, that doesn't remove the buff portion.

pwkampfykaufmann · November 2012

(Funny) Bug: If you use Gas Pellets while under the buff of Toxic Nanites, you are able to poison yourself with the Gas Pellets.

FC.31.20121030.14 PTS Update

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