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Say Goodbye to your Hawkwings.
secksegai
Posts: 1,354 Arc User
For those of you who invested in hawkwings, let it be known that they are a shell of their former self.
100 Ft range, 120ft for the charge 1 def slot, 1 support (i think it was) slot
Speed reduced - I know interceptor no longer has the flight boost
I didn't bother checking the rest as I ran my interceptor several in the carrier mission to find it a handicap instead of a benefit.
This push for lockboxes has been irritating - but promising a "reward" for early adopters only to ruin their viability. That's just too shady now.
If you were looking to see just how far you could push your customer base, you may have very well of found it.
100 Ft range, 120ft for the charge 1 def slot, 1 support (i think it was) slot
Speed reduced - I know interceptor no longer has the flight boost
I didn't bother checking the rest as I ran my interceptor several in the carrier mission to find it a handicap instead of a benefit.
This push for lockboxes has been irritating - but promising a "reward" for early adopters only to ruin their viability. That's just too shady now.
If you were looking to see just how far you could push your customer base, you may have very well of found it.
Post edited by secksegai on
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A refund would be nice. I agree. Even if it's a conversion to another vehicle type. The speed of them was what I loved the most. I couldn't care less about the weapons, I wanted a super-fast jet to travel around in the open world zones. I won't hold my breath on this though, there are already people saying "it's a prototype, you should have known"; so don't expect results or do an ultimatum attitude, you'll most likely be disappointed.
Here's a link where to ask for a refund, use the "Billing" section and describe the situation as simply and clearly as possible. And remember, don't be like "I DEMAND THIS YOU BASTARDS GRR ANGRY", that won't get you results typically. Instead be clear, concise, determined (don't back down if they brush you off at first), and polite. You're asking for a favor essentially, whether you feel you're entitled to that favor, just or unjust, you still need to be polite when asking a favor.
https://support.perfectworld.com/app/ask
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=167601&highlight=prototype
The prototype jets have a much slower base speed, Boost was nerfed, weapon ranges nerfed, and the weapons are not customizable like the other vehicles.
So it is both much worse than what we originally bought, and less customizable than the new vehicles.
I guess the "perk" is that even though the weapons are stuck at rank 1 and not customizable, we have more of them. Yay?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
What i bought was not what i wanted or asked for due to its changes, this entitles me to a refund. I was mislead into purchasing an item that isnt what i had in the first place.
So yeah... I will be seeing about getting my 1500 Zen back, because the cheaper 1200 Zen Mark 2 is better in every way, and there are no benefits that are specific to the Prototypes.
But this goes to show the slippery slide to "Pay To Win" this game has been progressing towards practically since Perfect World took over.
-END OF LINE
You have been cheated of your money.
What is the point of asking for a refund? It's not like they'll refund you the money you spent; they'll refund you zen, which is a zero loss for them and (at least for me) a zero gain for me. I don't want a refund; I want Cryptic to do right by the players who stood by them and made these purchases early.
As iv experienced the last 3 years, this is NOT going to happen my friend. The sad truth of it.
That's why in the suggestion thread I said I don't wan Zen, I want money or the original product back.
Tweaking, balancing, hell even nerfing I can understand. Deliberately selling a product under false pretenses, and then the day the new, official version comes out the old ones are made completely obsolete? Thatks just ****de up.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It would be nice to have 1500 Zen. I'd probably buy some keys or Questionite with it.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
They're worse in every way.
It's the Last.
I want to ask: why are you guys shocked about this?
You all have been around and should be used to this type of behavior by now.
I don't think refunds is a reasonable expectation of an outcome, and I am sorry about that.
Keep fighting the good fight though, maybe this time it will be different.
Not everyone is as pessimistic as you think they should be.
I totally am
What do you mean suckers? Those early purchases are what helped fund the system in the first damn place.
I can't even begin to put words on how embarassed I am for getting suckered, or made out to be the fool by PWI or Cryptic, doesn't matter, either way it stands, "Don't want to make you feel like you have to double purchase" blah blah....we have to double purchase....lets just get real. I feel renigged cheated and foolish all in one stroke...and angry....We can't use the weapon slot system even......how hard would it really have been to just put in the slots? Really!?! Not to mention....no grav bikes yet....but... the just.....aklfjakdjdfakdflsjflwaehofiwhaefkal!
and don't buy grab-bags, because thats the reason they will continue to create just
this cheap kind of stuff instead real content.
I honestly don't care if its zen, I'd rather have zen back than get bait switched.
Also currently working on a letter to support to see what can be done.
To balance that out, we made sure the prototypes kept their powers, which are a step above most new vehicles' weapons. We also added an additional two Mod slots so that prototypes would attain a degree of customization and be included in the new vehicle system.
In our eyes, that made for a pretty balanced package, but when the prototypes were updated this morning, there was concern about the speed. The weapons were nice, but the speed was what players really missed. We might be able to restore a bit of their old feel while keeping within our overall server stability speed limits, and we're going to look into this.
I want to stress that at this point, we're purely in an investigatory phase - we aren't even sure that this is feasible, for safety reasons. If it's feasible, this would only be for prototypes, which people invested in in part because they felt faster. Thanks everyone for your patience, and I hope you're all enjoying the launch of Champions Online: Reloaded.
--Matthew "TrailTurtle" Pecot
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
But, if you were to take a hawkwing before the patch and compare it to one after, there are some glaring issues.
The one that stands out for me is the sheer fact is there's absolutely no reason to use them anymore... for anything (unless you want to fly across a zone and dont have any other means).
They've lost all significant combat effectiveness. Aside from the fact that missiles travel farther than 100 feet, in actual use the new 100ft range basically makes a jet a sitting duck. Really, without the additional range, jets bring nothing worthwhile. They have no special speed advantage for easing the pain of traveling long distances and have no range advantage for engaging targets making these jets no longer an advantage but a handicap. For those of us who believed that early adopters would be "rewarded" as was posted officially - it's pretty clear that we've been feeling cheated instead.
From a business standpoint, I understand trying to monetize items to increase revenue.
But what I don't understand is how a business can believe it will increase revenue by alienating prospective customers.
Color me spurned.
No more, (Im)Perfect World. No more.
I know you and your style now. It took several sharp blows to the head and the wallet to get it through my admittedly thick skull, but the lesson has finally been learned.
I'll simply play the game and give you no more money for crap like this. You hear me? NOTHING.
And further - I intend to WARN people about you in every forum I can.
When I get lockboxes, I will destroy them. I won't even put them on the market.
In fact, I'll see if I can't find some macro that does it automatically for me. (Probably not possible, but if it is, I'll find it.)
You had a chance. An absolutely golden opportunity for good Public Relations and MONEY. You had the chance to take the reins from City of Heroes and prove you could treat your players better than NCSoft did to theirs.
Well you've failed miserably there. At every single turn.
Abusing loyal players in favor of "the churn" can only be profitable for so long before a tipping point is reached and the bad publicity becomes such that new players won't even join in enough numbers to keep the game alive.
And then there will be a second superhero MMO in the grave next to City of Heroes. Only you won't be mourned nearly so much.
And if you think that will have no impact on Neverwinter? Think again.
Let me be perfectly clear about why PWE/Cryptic is well above NCSoft, and how I feel about any hyperbole that compares the two:
YOU CAN STILL PLAY CHAMPIONS ONLINE.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
@Scrizz :biggrin:
They went 8 years. CO has struggled at 3, when it was touted to be the CoH killer back in the day.
TrailTurtle, I like you. I'm sure you are doing your best with the difficult situation that has been handed to you. I appreciate the update. When someone decides to move beyond "we're looking into it" and is actually doing something about it, please let us know.
Matt - you're a straight-up guy in a bad position. I don't envy you your job at the moment. If I'm strident it's not intended to be directed at you personally. I hope you understand that.
I hope you can properly convey to the people who're in charge of this stuff - we appreciate the art assets of the vehicles. They're neat designs. I want to commend the artists for designing them.
But the manner in which they've been implemented is just sub-par. I get that you can buy them with Zen. And if you don't want to pay real money for one, you can always grind or do surveys. As long as that's an option, it's technically okay to have them in the store. Because you CAN earn them in the game by grinding for D.
But making it so that the mods have to be gambled for in more lockboxes? That's just low.
The nerf to the prototypes is really low. And it really makes me not want to spend money at all if what I buy can be devalued so much so capriciously.
Here's something to consider - DCUO Implements Lockboxes in a manner that I think shows respect for their subscribers - their "Gold" players if you will.
Freemium and Premium players in DCUO have to buy a key to open a lockbox. But anyone who is paying a subscription? They open them for FREE.
THAT is the way you do lockboxes - you do it in a way where F2P players CAN get them if they want to make a "Mad Money' purchase. But letting the Subscribers open the lockboxes for free adds value to subscribing!
I want to stress that - ADDS VALUE TO SUBSCRIBING TO THE GAME. Get it? You'd get MORE MONEY that way in the long run and a much more satisfied playerbase who won't be screaming in the forums so much!
Thank you, it is much appreciated that you guys are looking into this.
@sturmhaven
Forum posts are but whispers compared to dollars screaming "YOURE DOIN IT RITE!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
While it lasts...
There's no essential difference between PWE + Cryptic and NCSoft + Ex-Cryptic. PWE will shut down the game as soon as they see that it's not making a sufficient profit, regardless of how much outrage and custoemr dissatisfaction it causes.
PWE simply does not care, as far as they are concerned either pay for the game one way or another or GTFO.
Wrong, PWE has got around 10 games up and running, the main cash they earn is coming from Perfect World, a game in which the average cash shopper spends 500 dollar weekly, with a server population of 750k - 1 million players (i used to be one of them, myself), do the math. Co is not going to get shut down within the next 5-7 years and i do love PWE for saving our game instead of just letting everything go down the drain.
If any of you would have played Perfect World, you could clearly see that the added content we get in CO is already available in perfect world for ages. The thing is, every now and then PWE actually pulls out a game expansion, that usually breaks the game by adding OP new skills/armors/weapons/mounts instead of raising the level cap. What did we get so far..? Armors, mounts, actually we already have gotten "new" (old) skills on our AT's. I sense that a major content update is going to get releases within the next 6 months and my "intuition" is based on long term observations of PWE games, let's pray.
I don't mean to leap on this but I do not believe the average Perfect World player spends $500 a week on the game. If a company was earning $500 million a week (which is what you seem to suggest) I think we'd see vast improvements in CO.
cyberglum
Actually the big difference between PWE and NCsoft is PWE dont shut games they sit down look at a game and figure out how to make cash from the population. Look at Jade Dynasty, population wise its smaller than CO but somehow PWE makes it work for them.
I can see CO beating CoH's 8 year record.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Oh Nephy. Nephy Nephy Nephy.
I don't see it. CoH was far more reliable across the board.
I never had to beg for bugs to be fixed - or generally even ask - they were so few and far between I never noticed. I was seeing bugs in CO in less than a few weeks - effectively when I knew enough that something wasn't "intended". I've watched known issues go for months... not days, not weeks months.
If I contacted customer service, I knew I'd get it, not simply be told it's out of their hands or they won't do anything, particularly when its an issue the player has absolutely no control over and is caused by faulty programming.
I never felt it necessary to question business decisions while I was a CoH member. I never once felt like I was being betrayed or cheated or ripped off. I never had to worry about new content, because I KNEW in CoH they would add it without my asking. I never felt the need to be so critical there, yet as far as CO goes it's nearly impossible to not be critical.
CoH showed appreciation for its customers for the majority (if not all) of its existence.
I haven't seen that in CO, whether it be ignoring feedback from their "QA" otherwise known as paid subscribers or simply ignoring them on anything, like people wanting a new zone. Comics were supposed to be a thing, and they've completely fallen through since the completion of white out. In an entire year I have yet to see an expansion or new zone - you simply can't retain long term customers with these practices.
Oh Secky,Secky,Secky
Have you seen the bugs PWI,JD and FW has some of those bugs makes what we have look like a slight twitch.
Seriously Perfect World isnt good at fixing things but they are good at somehow keeping games running. I aint saying were going to be happy with things over the next few years, far from it. BUT we will still have a game to ***** about ^__^
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
You guys will have the opportunity to enjoy lock boxes for years on end.
Um, given the topic, perhaps he's right?
It's not pessimism, it's not being a sucker.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
If it's breaking the servers then yes it needs to be fixed. That's ok. No really. I understand that I think that server stability comes first. That much I agree with.
What's not alright is this:
People bought a virtual product thinking it would be working in a certain way. I myself traded for one. I had a Doomlord a person wanted, they had a Command Ship. We swapped. Good trade. Now I'm getting burned because what I thought was a crazy-fast travel-power, has now been removed.
It's like buying a sports car for the speed, to have it replaced with a golf cart. And there is NOTHING as a player you can really do to change that, it just happened one day. It's very frustrating and leaves you feeling like you got bait & switch scammed. Customers feeling like that, it's not very good for business in the long-term. Yes you got to keep your ship, yes you got to have bare-bones R1 Mods on the vehicle, but that is NOT what the purpose was.
Am I making sense? I think all people are asking for are a way to spend the Zen on something else, you know? I don't see anybody asking for any paycheck or anything, just to do right by the customer.
Again if the speed needs to be removed to keep the server stability up, that's very important and must be done. But in doing so, a refund would be justified.
So server stability first, but if it means you MUST nerf something so drastically there needs to be an option for the buyer to get a refund and buy something else in-store.
I have created the following ticket for this:
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Keep in mind that he said the average, "cash shopper," not the average player.
I dont have any links at this time but Ive seen others post links to sites suggesting that only about 1% (if I remember correctly, and I am very likely to be mistaken) of players in those full F2P games actually spend money in the cash shop.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
But this isn't the first time this has been mentioned. There was something a while back about super speed having to be capped at a certain limit because of what it'd do to the servers, so it should have been known to you what giving these jets that kind of speed would end up doing to the servers.
The question remains: Why were the hawk jets allowed to go live with this serious error in the first place? Secondly: Why wasn't it made deathly clear that they would be "fixed" before pushing last minute promotions like this?
Nothing wrong with being critical.
But I think you miss Nepht's point, PWE/Cryptic is operating on a different plan than Paragon was. It may not be the new stuff we more devoted players want, but there'll always be new stuff as long as they can make cash off of it. Biff pointed it out elsewhere, its all about 'churn' these days. If long term customers were the real money maker, IMO, sub-based MMOs wouldn't be an endangered species.
If anyone was angry enough, they could likely bring a lawsuit against this. And Cryptic doesn't really have the money to deal with that. So this was a bit of a stupid move on that count. Hopefully no CO fan will be that zealous. :I
So the people who got their prototype Hawkwings from the mission or traded for a jet are suckers too?
Cryptic has altered items before but never in the form of retroactive blanket nerfs like this. Remember the Dark Speed change they made a while back? Previously existing Dark Speeds weren't altered, it only applied to any that dropped from that point on. Granted the change wasn't in the item's effectiveness either.
We're all suckers for failing to see an unprecedented change like this taking place? Yeah, nah.
"Y'all should have seen this coming/known better." in this context is pessimism and borderline trolling.