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Cryptic hires former CoX content designer! Wait... Wut?
lokikin
Posts: 624 Arc User
Ummm...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=431251
So you hire a content designer from a superhero game... then put him on STO...
:rolleyes:
Welcome to Cryptic, Dr. A...
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=431251
So you hire a content designer from a superhero game... then put him on STO...
:rolleyes:
Welcome to Cryptic, Dr. A...
_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Post edited by lokikin on
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They hired bunch of CoH people, none to CO.
Won't take long when the last 2 get ported to either Neverwinter or STO.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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I guess you're old enough to know that your childhood dog didn't actually go to a farm that sad morning years ago. Also companies focus on the things that make them the most profit.
Life sucks.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Where would you put your latest personnel investment?
In a shallow grave or in captains chair?
I can't help but think every time I see your posts nextnametaken, that following your logic inevitably leads to "they haven't made any new content and therefore they SHOULDN'T make any new content."
you need to keep in mind that CO via steam is relatively new in comparrison to:
1. when CO was released
2. when STO was released
in other words, not everyone plays CO from steam, and the same goes for STO.
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In loving memory of AngelofCaine.
I wish Hero Games hadn't sold the IP outright to Cryptic. I'm sure Steve Long and whoever else used to work on writing all the Champions books can't be happy with the way the IP is being treated. If the IP had been licensed instead, Hero Games would have more say and more influence to keep PWE and Cryptic from running the Champions IP into the ground like they are. If nothing else, they could've simply chosen not to renew the license and given it to some other game company that would've done a better job with it.
Is NWN an original offering by Cryptic or a licensed IP? If the former, expect NWN to land here with CO in the basement of forgotten toys as they ramp up to churn out their next el-cheapo game.
I will not play CO from steam. The lag in CO thru Steam is unplayable, almost flip book like. STO plays fine, go figure. Bottom Line, I can't be the only one with a problem in CO on Steam. So, even though I'm sure more people are in fact playing STO, the numbers are still off, some what.
The folks over on the CoX boards are keeping track of where their beloved devs end up. Dr. Aeon is the only one to have been reported as being hired by Cryptic, at least as far as they know...
Actually, my childhood dog DID go to a farm, my uncle's, where he lived out his remaining days happily chasing chickens...
And yeah, some portions of life do indeed suck. But other parts are freakin' awesome!
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
I still play CO from my original install location from my time in closed beta. :biggrin: I avoid Steam as much as possible.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
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huge license fees vrs no license fees
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Hm. Good point. But why not put him over in NWN then?
Unless maybe his skills are better utilized with bug-fixing an existing system and/or taking the pulse of what content the current players make/want?
Wish we could get a response like that here in CO, must be nice to have a staff twice the size of last year.
Ahh life is good *smokes cigar* *does not know why* *does it anyway*
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
He's a content creator. Yes he does know what people want and he writes very fun missions with good dialog and plot. Whether attached to NWN's upgraded foundry when it gets ported to STO or just to help get enough content into the next season he'll have plenty to do at STO.
But I could just as easily see him at NWN.
I'm not entirely sure if Cryptic is hiring for CO, but I can see him going over to STO after Stokeman said he couldn't kill off Defender or Witchcraft. :biggrin:
Tired of what? The fact that cryptic keeps ignoring CO except when they want to try out the latest cash cow for the zen store?
:rolleyes:
If there had never been a COH there would never have been a CO. :cool:
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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now i dont know much about how to look at business profit margins, or find out subs/ c-store purchase amounts etc. but i DO know how to read and follow popularity on social networking sites.
- champions online - 64750 (approx) 'likes' on facebook
- sto - 145000 (approx) 'likes'
non cryptic game in same "genre" as champions?
- dcuo - 460000 'likes' . that is 400k MORE than our measly 65k, of which honestly how many are not paying?
now what this tells me is that cryptic has a VERY SMALL budget. that includes for staff, programmers, developement teams etc. and we should be VERY happy with what we get... and honestly if your customer base were the smallest in your genre you would try to get as many 'cash cow' items in the digital store as you could to
Not everyone in the world hangs out on social sites or uses Steam or any other third party sites.
I myself will never have a facebook account, thus meaning I can't 'like' CO on Facebook. I don't connect to CO through Steam either(unless I wish to buy Zen)....I also, do not connect or vote for CO on any other third party site, because they usually wish you to join their sites to do so.
So making assumptions based on third party numbers is useless.
Also, if I wished to talk up a Game, I could have multiple facebook accounts and use them to 'like' a game all day long, thus skewing the numbers completely.
People need to stop assuming everyone on a game uses the same sites they do.
Also a point here, if a game has a lot of workers, they too can 'vote' on facebook and other sites and thus skew the numbers. I take all numbers like that with a grain of salt.
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I don't drive a car either, but that doesn't make me think that automobiles aren't a valuable way to measure traffic.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
I do hope you're not referring to me, since I've been consistantly posting, and playing, since launch...
I almost never post anything like this. This one just bugged me a little...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Uhmm... except that cars are a direct way to measure traffic, since they're the very thing that most people actually drive (unless they're driving a truck, motocycle, etc.), while someone "liking" a game in facebook doesn't even necessarily mean that they've ever even played the game (and in DCUO's case, it could just as likely mean that they're DC Comics fans and would "like" things DC just because they're DC).
Fact is that people "liking" stuff in facebook tells us very little about the things they actually like or do (they could have just "liked" it to get something from a promotional event*) or the financial situation on any company. Cars, on the other hand, tell us a LOT about trafic--because they're directly related to it.
*I've actually "liked" stuff just to get promotional items or such
Cars are what make traffic, without them, there is No traffic. So of course they can be used to measure traffic....because without them, it would just be an empty road. An empty road has no traffic.
On the other hand, Facebook and other 3rd Party sites, can Not be used to measure traffic for a Game or anything really. Because they can be lied to. Many people can go to Facebook, if they have an account, log in and vote 'like' for anything they want, even if they never played or used the thing they are 'liking'. This will of course skew any results from such a place. It also doesn't count those people who play CO, but do Not use Facebook or the third party site quoted.
The only true way to measure traffic on CO, is by using the numbers from CO's servers, etc. themselves. Because they are the only things that can say who has and has not signed in and played the Game, no other third party site can say that.
Thus people quoting numbers from third party sites is a useless way to prove their points, since the results of said sites are skewed badly.
Let me give some examples of this:
1. Someone quotes Steam numbers about how many people signed into CO in the last week, yet only half of the players of CO might use Steam(No, I don't know who uses Steam on CO)....Steam's numbers are then skewed because they are not counting half the playerbase of CO.
Quoting the numbers of Steam to prove that only that many people play CO makes the point useless, because you are still leaving out the number of players who play CO, but do not use Steam. You can really only use those numbers to say that X number of people use Steam to access CO.
2. That would be like me saying that all of you play a Game called Fragile(not a real game as far as I know)....just because I play the Game of Fragile, does not mean you play the Game of Fragile. So say I 'voted' for Fragile on a third party site, made sure all my Fragile friends 'voted' too, maybe even 'voted' multiple times with multiple accounts....this would not mean you could use those numbers to say that Fragile was more popular than CO.
Thus all I was saying was that just because a third party site says that a certain number of their users 'voted/liked' CO and 'voted/liked' DCUO, does not mean that either game is more popular than the other, since we do not have access to the numbers from the Games themselves.
So until someone can Quote CO's numbers....we are in the dark.
By numbers I mean things like:
1. Number of Accounts registered to CO.
2. Number of Active Acounts registered to CO.
3. X Amount of times said Active Accounts have signed into CO.
Then the people quoting numbers at us might have something to stand on and prove their point with. Until then, they need to stop quoting third party numbers at us to try an prove whatever point they are trying to make.
[Insert Witty Signature Here]
He was reffering to the poster he replied to.
Now we can all be part of the problem or part of the solution. Although there is a lot to complain about as a fan of CO, complaining doesn't really help the situation; just the opposite, as all of the negativity can be contagious to other potential players and probably the development team as well.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
You do NOT need social sites to have traffic in games, so you really should not use them to measure game traffic.
The thing is, no it doesn't, give you a rough guesstimate I mean. A lot of people will 'like' something on Facebook, without even once using or playing the item/game/etc. that they just 'liked'. A lot of that happens for promotional things or for things like free Zen or whatever a game calls it coinage.
So social sites for use as even a rough guesstimate are flawed, because they can be LIED to. You can lie pretty well and all you want when all you have to do is press a little button to 'like' something. This makes those so called rough guesstimates useless, because the system is detrimentally flawed.
This means such social sites can not be really used to even roughly determine if games are popular or not against each other. You can only really judge that by the 3 things I laid down in my last post. How Many Accounts, How Many Active Accounts, How Often an Active Account signs into the game.
But enough arguing about this.
I just disliked how some people were posting numbers from third party sites and then saying that proved their point. Because it did not prove their point at all.
Oh and as for the no facebook account, I dislike social sites like that to begin with, I didn't have a MySpace account either lol. I really don't see the use to tell Everyone and their Uncle every little detail of my life, which is also why I do not have a Twitter account.
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There are also a few things I probably "liked" a few years ago, but have since lost interest in - I seldom go looking for things to root out of my page. Basically, using Facebook or other social-media sites to measure actual interest in something works about as well as, well, using these forums to determine what most CO players actually want...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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so many thing I wish for this game that will never happen.
@Lohr
No offense, i find your font choice really annoying, but being someone who plays CO via steam, and i do NOT like CO on Facebook, i agree.
If you somehow manage to get a degree while talking like that, i would be very very sad with the world.
Cars work for gauging traffic roughly because cars and roads compliment each other. why make roads for cars, if no one uses cars? why have cars if no one makes roads to drive them on? (no, driving freely doesn't count as a valid retort here, for this sake, let's pretend if roads didn't exist, all roads would be filled with buildings, leaving no room to drive through)
where as, there is no requirement for me to NEED to use third part crap to play CO, leaving it entirely optional. just like voting. but then i guess you'll argue "numbers show everyone who didn't vote, would have voted the worst guy anyway" because who needs fact when pulling random drivel out of thin air!
vendor of games on the planet is a sure sign of knowing how popular
the game is among the population of players buying games from
the only vendor advertising this game.
There is no retail box, there is no web advertising or any advertising at all.
We know for a fact there are over 12 million Steam users, Valve tells us so.
We know for a fact there are over 4 million people on Steam this very moment, Valve is telling us so in real time.
We know for a fact, through daily observation of the Steam top 100, that from August 2011 through June 2012 there was on average greater than 550 Steam members playing this game.
With a few months where it dropped right off the chart between events.
It has not appeared on that chart all summer or fall, when other games have breached the
chart at around 480 players per 48 hour period.
Out of 12 million Steam players, no more than 480 of them access the game in any 48 hour period. This is a fact.
This is not at all like observing a road we can't see all of but more like counting all the Champions Online cars that pass a specific marker on a specific road that happens to be the most traveled road in each 48 cycle.
The number of total cars is a known quantity, the number of Champions Online
cars is no longer measurable on the road because they no longer rank high enough to chart and they haven't for months.
Believe what you want.
Whats the top comment about this game on Steam? Thats been up there two weeks.
They have no baring on how many people do or do not play the game as each doesnt take into account people that dont use them but do play.
Many people do not use facebook, and not all those who do and play will have liked the game
not everyone who plays does so via steam, in fact a very small amount since its been available before it was on steam for far longer than it has been on steam
like "how many microbes is in this lake water" they take samples from various locations and use those samples to create an approximation... they do not measure the whole lake.
so by using samples from various locations (steam numbers, facebook numbers etc) you can get an approximation of how popular champs is. does that take into account that there may be people who have champs liked that no longer play? or who have extra account or two specifically to like champs (highly unlikely, that made me laugh)? no it does not. but in the above example the lake water near a sample may have a dead squirrel skewing the numbers as well. hence using multiple sources and laws of averages. remember the OTHER thing being compared will have the same variables, in this case the 'no longer plays' and the 'i'll fake account likes' in fact third party numbers are MORE reliable simply due to the fact that they are unsolicited. they may be incomplete. but if you take the SAME incomplete sample from both things you are comparing you will see a very reliable comparison.
400k MORE sources of likes for dcuo. hell if you dont believe that just dl the game and log in.. way more people on (ive checked it out, not a fan of the game myself but can defenitely see its popularity)
so my earlier point still stands.... based on how much cash they probably arent raking in, cryptic does NOT have the resources to pump out the content/fix all the fixes that pple think they do. im happy when they fix what they can and make what they can, because i like this game and all negativity does is breed more negativity.
Pretty much my thoughts on this matter.
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So. What you're saying is... any game that isn't linked to steam or facebook is clearly always going to be empty/unpopular?
You can take the CO and STO steam numbers and double them a lot of players have learned of those games via the PWE website.
CO has a playerbase on the same size as DDO and Dark age of Camelot of about 1000 peeps on at prime time .
Nobody crys DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM on those games forums.
Apart from me :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
In fact I play an MMO(No I will not name it here) that is not on Steam at all or a retail box, etc.(it does have a Facebook page).
It has been around for 14+ years now and has 60K Unique Accounts on it. Between 4K-8K of those accounts are active daily. By Unique Accounts I mean those that are not just a 2nd account for somebody. We are not counting 2nd Accounts for people in the number.
It it part of a Niche market and thus not very well-known. But, it is also not on Steam and will probably never be on Steam, because if it hasn't made it on Steam in the years Steam has been around, it probably never will.
It has a Facebook page, yet of the 60K Unique Accounts on the game, only 2K+ have bothered to like it on its Facebook page.
Thus if you went by Facebook, you would think it was not very popular, yet the numbers the Company that runs the Game gives out on it are higher than the Facebook Page makes it seem. Thus the Facebook 'like' skews the numbers and thus your beliefs on how popular the game truly is.
You can not take third party site voting as fact for anything. For third party sites can be lied to, I know some people who go to such sites to vote and lie their butts off, just to screw up the voting and to get a laugh....these types will also usually have multiple accounts with the voting site and thus skew the votes even more.
Then there are times when promotions are being run, where if you 'like' the page of an item or game, you can get something for it....this also skews results.
Now lets take your statistics for Steam.
Those only count for those players of CO that play CO through Steam.
Take myself, I do not use Steam to access CO, unless I wish to use the Steam Wallet to buy Zen....this means I am rarely if ever signed into Steam at all, let alone accessing CO through it(because with steam on, Lag is killer).
I count as a player of CO, yet those who post Steam numbers as fact, discount me and others like me. They ignore that not everyone on CO uses Steam to access it. All the numbers on Steam do is inform you that X number of CO players use Steam to access CO....it can not tell you how many players who don't use Steam play CO. Steam is only ONE way of accessing CO. Thus why it may be fact that X number of players used Steam to access CO, it is NOT fact that Only those players accessed CO at all. Which is why I objected to people using Steam numbers or Facebook 'likes' as a way to say that CO is dying or becoming unpopular.
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I laughed. Thanks, mate! But no. With the huge license that is Star Trek I will assume alot of people that simply like star trek, but doesen't play wit will 'like' it one facebook. I know all my trekkie friends do. Yet, none of them had ever heard of CO before I told them about it.
Having seen no new zone content, a plethora of bugs still unaddressed since launch and a slew of other issues, the last thing we need are pointless vanity items like vehicles, lockboxes, travel powers and other miscellaneous distractions.
We need ZONE, mob, quest content. Real actual content that I swear the developers ignore. I don't know why. It seems to defy all sense or reason.
I'm talking of course about AE (I posted a separate section about that).
I think it would be fitting to add it to the power house...
Its the thing I'm gonna miss most about COX
I'm guessing you missed that part about Dr Aeon being hired for STO, not CO...
It was kinda the (now lost) point of the thread...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Explorable content is expensive to develop and directly generates only minimal returns.
The traditional solution to this is to make said content a paid expansion; doing so happens to be incompatible with the way they've structured their revenue methods and systems. Changing their methods and systems so as to make it possible incurs further costs.
A boxed expansion's worth of explorable content costs them between 300k and 600k to make. (Maybe more, maybe less, depending on a number of factors I don't have access to.) It'll cost them about 40k to change their systems to make it possible to begin with before they even start developing it. They'll want to profit off it, cover opportunity costs and otherwise get paid ...
As such: How much are we willing to pay for it? A million dollars, give or take?
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
In what way do you think that a paid expansion is incompatible with CO's current set up ?
I'm not disagreeing with you, just seeking more insight into your point.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.