Keys. Cryptic how profitable have these been for you all?

agentnx5 · October 2012

I'm just curious if we can get some specific numbers from Cryptic or an "average" response on this from what the rest of you all feel.

I know I've spent ~5000 Zen on the keys thus far. They're also cheaper than Team Fortress 2 keys ($1 v. $2.50) and give you better stuff than what you get with the TF2 keys because of the Drifter Salvage (thank you for adding something good to the Drifter Store btw, it's appreciated even if perhaps a bit too pricey *shrug*)

I ask this because we've been getting cold feet from the developers with regard to making new environmental content we can explore. Even new story lines with adventure packs, but in particular I feel we're long overdue to a new Zone on the scale & detail of MC, Desert, Canada, or Vibora Bay. That alone would make player numbers jump up, and even bring back some players we used to have. The better designed it is the more people will enjoy it for a long time. When I say "explorable content" I mean places to go and things to do there. So map making and quests/missions.

Anyways if you could give us some sort of official news as to whether this latest business venture has been successful or not it would be news I think many of would want to hear, I'm guessing it was very successful judging from the extreme demand for keys, the massive jump in the price of Questionite for Zen, and the AH prices of Legion gear and Legacy lockbox stuff.

My question is how successful has this been for you Cryptic?

PS: There's seems to be a bug with the AH to where you can't search the word "lockbox" even with Any, All, and the level fields being blank. Bugs are one of the things we need the revenue to fix. Bug fixes & content, things I feel strongly that the labor-cost of development should be prioritized on. Another bug is that with Need or Greed on it proc's the choice window every damned time, no matter what color/rarity setting you put it on... Can we please have the lockboxes tagged as "white" gear?

mistressphoenix · October 2012

Is it "lockbox" or "lock box"? i ask because in STO it's "lock box" and so of course searching "lockbox" does not come up with any results. Made that mistake more than once.

ashensnow · October 2012

I would bet that they are fairly profitable.

1) I don't believe that they are all that expensive to develop and so development costs seem likely to be quickly recouped leaving the remaining revenue from the keys as mostly profit.

2) Both Cryptic and PWE have tested this sort of mechanism previously. If it was not profitable I would not expect them to continue with it. As they are continuing with it I think it is safe to assume that it is a profitable system.

3) I think lock-boxes play to an aspect of what some (many) MMO players' are drawn to in the genre. Some people seem to farm, pursue bosses, etc in pursuit of the excitement of getting that wow !!! moment when awesome item "X" drops. The use of RNG for treasure/reward allotment seems like a form of gambling already...lockboxes seem designed to play off of that.

goodwillout · October 2012

You're not seriously expecting an answer to this, right? Would you ask Coke how well its new brand of cola is selling, and expect them to respond in a public forum? I'm guessing not and the same would be true here.

jasinblaze · October 2012

there is an easy way to find out the answer
buy just 1 stock in perfectworld
you will then receive the stockholders report
this game was profitable before the keys i imagine more so now

agentnx5 · October 2012

goodwillout wrote: »

You're not seriously expecting an answer to this, right? Would you ask Coke how well its new brand of cola is selling, and expect them to respond in a public forum? I'm guessing not and the same would be true here.

Yes, I can reasonably ask this.

Although I forget the stock market name for Coca Cola, Yum Brands is: http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:YUM

Also Perfect World is:
https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:PWRD

Public companies are supposed to share their highlight with their board of directors and share holders.

If anybody has the email address for Ming Chen (Senior Vice President, Chief Executive Officer of U.S. and European Subsidiaries) that's why I need to email this topic too. Maybe TrailTurtle can help me with this one, who knows.

jasinblaze wrote: »

there is an easy way to find out the answer
buy just 1 stock in perfectworld
you will then receive the stockholders report
this game was profitable before the keys i imagine more so now

Where & when do I get the report and does anyone know if Champions Online specifics is included in that report? I don't really care about their other titles much to be honest, maybe STO and NWN a little.

jasinblaze · October 2012

you get game specific details

darqaura · October 2012

Completely irrelevant if he gets the report or not. Lockboxes and grab bags have long been in this game. If they weren't profitable PWE would not allow Cryptic to keep doing it.

agentnx5 · October 2012

jasinblaze wrote: »

you get game specific details

Ok I'll buy stock then. Who did you purchase from if you don't mind me asking publicly?

Hopefully numbers about keys are in there. I'd still like to send an email, even if it's can only be done by a Cryptic employee internally to Ming Chen. It might even get his attention that this game is worth a bit more investment from PWE. Then we could start getting more developers to work on content *hoping*

darqaura2 wrote: »

Completely irrelevant if he gets the report or not. Lockboxes and grab bags have long been in this game. If they weren't profitable PWE would not allow Cryptic to keep doing it.

Grab Bags have, not these keys & lockboxes, in this game anyways (STO always seems to get stuff first...)

Also, the question is more HOW profitable than if they are. Obviously some revenue is being generated.

jasinblaze · October 2012

through my bank which i wont disclose for obvious reasons

jonsills · October 2012

You're not finding "lockbox" in the AH because that's not part of the name. Try searching "takofanes' cache". For the keys, search "cosmic key".

agentnx5 · October 2012

jonsills wrote: »

You're not finding "lockbox" in the AH because that's not part of the name. Try searching "takofanes' cache". For the keys, search "cosmic key".

I can find the Caches and Keys, you're missing what I'm saying. The lockboxes that have a chance to appear WITHIN the caches (and require an additional key to open).

somebob · October 2012

The lockboxes are level 0. That's why you can't find them under a standard search. Delete the first box for Level (keep the last one at 40 as AFAIK nothing is above level 40 in the system) and search.

Also, the other reason you haven't been able to find lockboxes (the ones that hold 3 or 4 slot items) is that nobody has been selling them. I've been keeping watch. But the search does work as I've sold two so far.

As of just a few minutes ago, there were 2 green (so 3 slot) lockboxes up.

cptvanor · October 2012

I can't say much about CO, because I just delete all mine. Although a friend of mine was making upward of 50g for 25 of them on the AH...

But in STO I know they were fairly popular because in that game every time someone won a ship from a lockbox you'd get a message on your screen about it. That happened often enough for me to say anecdotally that they were fairly popular in STO.

spyralpegacyon · October 2012

cptvanor wrote: »

I can't say much about CO, because I just delete all mine. Although a friend of mine was making upward of 50g for 25 of them on the AH...

I've been unloading all mine on the AH for 1g a piece for the past few days. I'm not sure if the bloom's off, though, last batch I dropped for 50s just to be safe. Now that I know what to seach for (level 0!?) I can get a better gauge on what they're going for. But I do know they're still selling.

bluedarky · October 2012

Lock box keys sell better than grab bags. A simple knowledge of psychology will tell you that some people who won't buy the grab bags will by the keys because they have the lock box and might as well.

Sad but true I'm afraid.

lohr01 · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

I'm just curious if we can get some specific numbers from Cryptic or an "average" response on this from what the rest of you all feel.

As much as we would like to see numbers, we most likely will not see them. They are required to report financial information, but they are not required to drill down to report specifics.

pion01 · October 2012

bluedarky wrote: »

Lock box keys sell better than grab bags. A simple knowledge of psychology will tell you that some people who won't buy the grab bags will by the keys because they have the lock box and might as well.

Sad but true I'm afraid.

Yup. There's also the added subtlety that unlike with grab bags, you are guaranteed to know and get what you're paying for - a key. Removing the element of uncertainty, even if only by a single step, does a lot to temper discomfort with the notion of gambling.

That's why a lot of casinos and game joints are using cards instead of straight currency now (among other reasons). You disassociate it the gambling with the money despite keys functionally being the same thing as a scratch off - paying $1.00 for a chance to gamble.

rapierwhip · October 2012

It is the exact same thing as a grab bag... even has the same price tag associated with it. the only difference is that you have to find the bag as a drop and buy the right to find out what you should have been awarded without having to pay extra for it. To the best of my observations, the boxes are not hard to find at all... I found three in less than five minutes of random mob bashing... and the boxes seem to have replaced normal drops entirely since in that same five minutes, I got exactly two other drops: both recog tokens.

I've stuck in here through targeting bugs, costume bugs, power bugs, power nerfs, administration overhauls, Vibora Pay scandal, APs, CSs, and Alerts, and thought that nothing could actually drive me away from this game. Paying for the loot that I should get for free through normal game play might just be the thing though.

They have something similar to this in DCUO, called Promethium Lockboxes. You get the box randomly in a loot drop and have to buy the key to open it... but here's the thing: Legendary Members (i.e. subscribers or Gold Members here) get an unlimited number of keys for free. I never really thought I would see the day when I would say that Sony is treating its customers better than another company.

ruiiji · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Where & when do I get the report and does anyone know if Champions Online specifics is included in that report? I don't really care about their other titles much to be honest, maybe STO and NWN a little.

If a company has a stock quote, it will have an annual report as they are required by the market regulators to file these. Since PWRD is an "ADR" class stock, they file less info.

But in any case you do not need to own stock in any company to get this info. Go to their website and look for "Investor Relations".

http://www.pwrd.com/html/en/annual_report.html

I browsed through their last annual report, and unfortunately until the next one is published, you won't know if Cryptic's numbers will be called out as a line item.

agentnx5 · October 2012

ruiiji wrote: »

If a company has a stock quote, it will have an annual report as they are required by the market regulators to file these. Since PWRD is an "ADR" class stock, they file less info.

But in any case you do not need to own stock in any company to get this info. Go to their website and look for "Investor Relations".

http://www.pwrd.com/html/en/annual_report.html

I browsed through their last annual report, and unfortunately until the next one is published, you won't know if Cryptic's numbers will be called out as a line item.

Good info, thank you Ruiiji! I'll share a key part I found:

We have adopted an item-based revenue model for all but one of our self-developed games and intend to apply this revenue model to most of our new games. This revenue model may have a negative impact on our financial condition and results of operations.

We have adopted an item-based revenue model for all of our self-developed games except for our first MMORPG, Perfect World, for which we use a time-based model whereby players are charged for their playing time. Going forward, we intend to continue applying the item-based model to most of the new games that we operate.

Under the item-based revenue model, players are able to play the online game free of charge for an unlimited amount of time, but are charged for purchases of in-game items, such as performance-enhancing items, clothing, accessories and pets. While several other online game companies have adopted the item-based model, it is still relatively new compared to the more proven time-based model and results in new risks and uncertainties for us. The item-based model requires us to design games that not only attract players to spend more time playing, but also encourage them to purchase in-game items. The sale of in-game items requires us to track closely consumer tastes and preferences, especially in-game spending trends. In addition, the item-based model may cause additional concerns with the PRC regulators, who have been trying to implement ways to reduce the amount of time that Chinese youths spend on online games. A model that does not charge for time may be viewed by the PRC regulators as inconsistent with this goal. We cannot assure you that the item-based revenue model will continue to be successful, or that it will not have a negative impact on our future financial condition and results of operations.

Our revenue recognition policy for the item-based games entails our best estimates of the lives of various items associated with each of our item-based games. As we adopted the item-based revenue model beginning in September 2006, we have a limited operating history and data for our item-based games on which to base our revenue recognition policy for such games. With respect to permanent ownership items that we sell to players, we recognize revenues over the estimated lives of such items. We consider the average period that players typically play our games and other player behavior patterns to arrive at our best estimates for the lives of these permanent ownership items, which, in some cases, may be as long as the estimated life of the related game.

However, given the relatively short operating history of our item-based games, our estimate of the period that players typically play our games may not accurately reflect the actual lives of the items. We have been revising our estimates as we continue to gain operating data and refine our estimation process and results accordingly.

Any future revisions to these estimates could adversely affect the time period during which we recognize revenues from these items. For example, an increase in the estimated lives of these items would increase the period over which revenues from these items are recognized. See ?Item 5. Operating and Financial Review and Prospects?Critical Accounting Policies?Revenue Recognition.?
6

If we are unable to successfully develop, launch and/or operate additional online games that grow our player base and increase our revenues, our future results of operations will be adversely affected.

In order for our business strategy to succeed over time, we will need to continually develop, launch and operate new online games or license or acquire new games that are commercially successful. We will need to do this to both replace our existing online games as they reach the end of their useful economic lives, which we believe are typically three to five years for most of our online games, and to meet our growth strategy of operating a larger number of online games that grow our overall player base and increase our revenues.

We plan to invest a significant amount of financial and personnel resources in developing, launching and operating new online games. The success of our new online games will largely depend on our ability to anticipate and effectively respond to changing consumer tastes and preferences and technological advances in a timely manner. We cannot assure you that the games we develop will be launched as scheduled, viewed by the regulatory authorities as complying with content restrictions, attractive to players, able to compete with games operated by our competitors or commercially successful. In addition, as we introduce new games, some of our existing customers may switch to the new games. If this transfer of players from our existing games does not grow our overall player base and revenues, our growth and profitability may be materially and adversely
affected

But you know what I find is crazy? In not section do they mention how they plan on attracting new players. Champions Online is not advertised at all by Perfect World to my knowledge, it's all word-of-mouth. Any you know what f***s over word-of-mouth more than anything? Customers getting frustrated with half-baked content and no new additions.

Additionally they don't even mention the fact that is cheaper to keep making new content for an existing game, whereas creating or buying up a created game engine is FAR more expensive. Makes me wonder just what the hell they are spending their money on...

This focus of PWE's model neglects to pay attention to the fact that for this specific market it's content in the form of explorable stuff and powersets and freeform slots (or lifetime access) that is the REAL driver of the business. Apparently keys might be a part of that, as it all goes into the same revenue pool.

Do note that they say this stuff IS tracked "closely" whatever the hell that means exactly is anybody's guess. I'm not even sure if most of the Cryptic employees know the answer to that. Also leaves me wondering if that is a good tracking system, or if it's as finicky as the Auction House GUI or the ill-tested Level 60 Mega D patch.

visionstorm01 · October 2012

rapierwhip wrote: »

It is the exact same thing as a grab bag... even has the same price tag associated with it. the only difference is that you have to find the bag as a drop and buy the right to find out what you should have been awarded without having to pay extra for it. To the best of my observations, the boxes are not hard to find at all... I found three in less than five minutes of random mob bashing... and the boxes seem to have replaced normal drops entirely since in that same five minutes, I got exactly two other drops: both recog tokens.

I've stuck in here through targeting bugs, costume bugs, power bugs, power nerfs, administration overhauls, Vibora Pay scandal, APs, CSs, and Alerts, and thought that nothing could actually drive me away from this game. Paying for the loot that I should get for free through normal game play might just be the thing though.

They have something similar to this in DCUO, called Promethium Lockboxes. You get the box randomly in a loot drop and have to buy the key to open it... but here's the thing: Legendary Members (i.e. subscribers or Gold Members here) get an unlimited number of keys for free. I never really thought I would see the day when I would say that Sony is treating its customers better than another company.

I haven't been playing lately so I haven't had to check this out yet, but this paints a scary picture of what this game might become if this is accurate and intended to be the way things are going to be for now on. The idea of even non-subscribers being expected to gamble in order to get access to loot (and I assume by extention random gear) is already bad enough. But to do that to people that already subscribe takes it to a whole other level.

Doing it to non-subscribers is bad because it expect them to become gamblers in order to financially support the game they're playing for "free". But bad as that is there is a justification for that--the game is "free", it has to make money to support itself some way. Its an (horrible) alternate business model in a game that requires no monthy payments to sustain the game.

But isn't financially supporting the game what we have always payed $15/month on a subscription for? What's the justification for doing the same to subscribers? Double dipping much?

Quoted Report posted by agentnx5 wrote:

In order for our business strategy to succeed over time, we will need to continually develop, launch and operate new online games or license or acquire new games that are commercially successful. We will need to do this to both replace our existing online games as they reach the end of their useful economic lives, which we believe are typically three to five years for most of our online games, and to meet our growth strategy of operating a larger number of online games that grow our overall player base and increase our revenues.

In other words, they don't CARE about the growth and longivity of the game. They just want to regurgitate games and keep them around while it brings them profit.

And the difference with other games/companies? Other games have to keep their game growing and their players occupied in order to retain their players--the game has to be sustained. Here, the focus is on selling the players access to random loot while enough players play the game, then close it down when it meets the end of its economic usefulness. Growth in order to maintain the sustainability of the game is irrelevant. The game doesn't have to be sustained, just generate enough money on the here and now to keep it running then close it down when the players no longer care.

rapierwhip · October 2012

visionstorm01 wrote: »

I haven't been playing lately so I haven't had to check this out yet, but this paints a scary picture of what this game might become if this is accurate and intended to be the way things are going to be for now on. The idea of even non-subscribers being expected to gamble in order to get access to loot (and I assume by extention random gear) is already bad enough. But to do that to people that already subscribe takes it to a whole other level.

Evidently, there are still normal loot drops as well... I just didn't get any while I was playing. I played a total of 30 minutes with, I think, ONE loot drop that was not a lock box or recog token. But my luck with loot drops has always been poor so that really doesn't surprise me.

Still, charging the people who are already paying monthly (or have paid a large sum up front for LTS) for these keys seems a bit much. Here's one thing I have learned from owning my own business, if you keep the people who are giving you money happy, they tend to continue giving you money. Not always, but the odds climb significantly. However, rub their fur the wrong way and not only will they no longer give you money, they won't tell their friends to give you money either.

fudgemonsta · October 2012

Wow, these results sound...Horribly depressing.

epelesker · October 2012

As someone still nursing the wounds of NCsoft's "realignment" that shut down City of Heroes... that statement about a game outliving its economic usefulness isn't very encouraging.

skyranger1414 · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Additionally they don't even mention the fact that is cheaper to keep making new content for an existing game, whereas creating or buying up a created game engine is FAR more expensive. Makes me wonder just what the hell they are spending their money on...

It may be cheaper, but its more profitable for them to BURN through a game milking it for all its worth and then discarding it and launching a new one and repeating the process.

Make no mistake, the real reason PWE bought Cryptic was to extend its lineup of games to burn through; and more importantly, as an experiment to see how to adapt their business model for western audiences.

STO is already mired in PWE's business model... so what did STO players get after buying tons and tons of lockboxes? Not content, they got a new starbase system which is nothing more than a HUGE grindfest and a handful of new missions to grind one of the resources needed for their bases. Bases which are all the same, I might add. The starbase system is gated by both the time it takes to complete upgrading "proyects", and by the resources needed to pay for such upgrades. In CO's case the critical resource would be Refined Questionite. Lots and lots of Refined Questionite.

Now STO is facing a new season in a few weeks, this new season monetizes some already existing content on top of adding more Dilithium (Questionite in CO) sinks. To put this new season in CO terms it'd be like.... Unity gear suddenly requiring 60K refined questionite per piece... but you could only acquire it after a lengthy reputation grinding process.. which also uses up copious amounts of refined questionite. Also, said reputation process was time gated.... And yet this is soft and easy compared to the ongoing starbase upgrade system.

I was hoping CO was simply too small to get any of this type of attention

. Monetization gone wild

neuraldamage · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Under the item-based revenue model, players are able to play the online game free of charge for an unlimited amount of time, but are charged for purchases of in-game items, such as performance-enhancing items, clothing, accessories and pets. While several other online game companies have adopted the item-based model, it is still relatively new compared to the more proven time-based model and results in new risks and uncertainties for us. The item-based model requires us to design games that not only attract players to spend more time playing, but also encourage them to purchase in-game items. The sale of in-game items requires us to track closely consumer tastes and preferences, especially in-game spending trends.

In order for our business strategy to succeed over time, we will need to continually develop, launch and operate new online games or license or acquire new games that are commercially successful. We will need to do this to both replace our existing online games as they reach the end of their useful economic lives, which we believe are typically three to five years for most of our online games, and to meet our growth strategy of operating a larger number of online games that grow our overall player base and increase our revenues.

Wow. Just wow. Meanwhile the successful MMOGs run for ten+ years.

Somehow I suddenly don't care if that Neverwinter beta invite never appears in my email.

secksegai · October 2012

rapierwhip wrote: »

Evidently, there are still normal loot drops as well... I just didn't get any while I was playing. I played a total of 30 minutes with, I think, ONE loot drop that was not a lock box or recog token. But my luck with loot drops has always been poor so that really doesn't surprise me.

Still, charging the people who are already paying monthly (or have paid a large sum up front for LTS) for these keys seems a bit much. Here's one thing I have learned from owning my own business, if you keep the people who are giving you money happy, they tend to continue giving you money. Not always, but the odds climb significantly. However, rub their fur the wrong way and not only will they no longer give you money, they won't tell their friends to give you money either.

That seems like common sense - somehow lost.

This morning after feeling burnt that 35 keys effectively netted only 1 set or r5s and the rest were r3s and r4s, I found myself noticing a complete lack of motivation to do anything game related. There's no sense of reward when the most "profitable" tasks that I can think of are also the most mundane. The irony being that there's no real motivation to building an empire or even profit as there's nothing to do with said profit. I could slot expensive gear but without there being anything fun to do in the first place, its a moot point.

It takes countless hours to build up the resources to run the rarer mods, and the even rarer legion gear. But all that fancy gear is meaningless without something to do, and once the initial shock of having these boxes where off, I get the notion that plenty of people will come to this realization too.

I have a feeling they'll regret this lockbox junk in the long run. Requiring people to gamble for desired items instead of simply offering desired items at a reasonable price will alienate the playerbase.

Side note - A little MOBA I have yet to spend a dime in appears to be far more successful and profitable all the while providing superior service. If I could do it again knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have invested a penny here.

epelesker · October 2012

For the record, I've gone so far to ignore Takofanes' Cache drops completely. I am not interested in something that's blatantly of no use without spending cash that could be used (and has been!) for things I know I'm getting.

It was the same thing for me in CoH with our version of the grab bags. People cried foul when those came out, especially because they contained an entire costume set and other vanity item that couldn't be obtained by other means. I got some on the Beta server to try them out (because it's free there). I didn't spend the dollar per pack on Live, but other people got them.

amosov78 · October 2012

goodwillout wrote: »

You're not seriously expecting an answer to this, right? Would you ask Coke how well its new brand of cola is selling, and expect them to respond in a public forum? I'm guessing not and the same would be true here.

While there was no direct figures, the STO team mentioned that the lock boxes were incredibly popular over there, so we can imagine that the keys sold very well. In a slightly related note; the EP of STO also mentioned recently that STO is now the #1 game for PWE in North America currently.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if CO has similar success with their own version, and see if their team grows significantly like STO's seems to be doing.

sanmerci · October 2012

amosov78 wrote: »

While there was no direct figures, the STO team mentioned that the lock boxes were incredibly popular over there, so we can imagine that the keys sold very well. In a slightly related note; the EP of STO also mentioned recently that STO is now the #1 game for PWE in North America currently.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if CO has similar success with their own version, and see if their team grows significantly like STO's seems to be doing.

A related question: given that STO is growing, are they getting new content of any sort other than these lockboxes?

championshewolf · October 2012

sanmerci wrote: »

A related question: given that STO is growing, are they getting new content of any sort other than these lockboxes?

Yes. They are. They have a new season with a new zone coming out in fact.

hyperstrikecoh · October 2012

Okay, I used vet points to get Super Packs in CoH.
Great. Fine. Wonderful. I was capped out on what I could use the points for, and had no desire for summonable sidekicks or massive numbers of enhancement unslotters.

But the idea that I have to buy a key, with real money, for a piece of salvage that auto-drops in the game (possibly supplanting a regular salvage item) leaves me just cold.

spyralpegacyon · October 2012

hyperstrikecoh wrote: »

But the idea that I have to buy a key, with real money, for a piece of salvage that auto-drops in the game (possibly supplanting a regular salvage item) leaves me just cold.

There are two seperate tables, which I can confirm as I've been getting my usual piles o' green 'n blue along with all the caches.

I'm still seeing them on the market at 1g too, though my last batch went for 50s. Sure, I feel a bit like P.T. Barnum, but its not my money so...

gaelyn1 · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

I know I've spent ~5000 Zen on the keys thus far.

I don't think a lot of players use the keys. But those who uses it, put a lot of money into them. So... You have the answer at your question.
Until players as you spend a lot more than a sub in this kind of items, theses will be profitable.
But don't expect to have a response of cryptic about numbers. They won't communicate over this. I bet my left hand.

dastahl wrote: »

Yes because my team has been growing with nearly every update. My team size for Season 7 was bigger than Season 6. My team size for Season 8 is bigger than for Season 7.

It's funny, because after the CO grab bags, and we had some of them, we never seen the Co's team growing.
At the opposite we'd seen some devs moving from here to STO/NWO. Hi, Tumerboy and robobo.
Funny how the things can be different between two games.

twg042370 · October 2012

championshewolf wrote: »

Yes. They are. They have a new season with a new zone coming out in fact.

It looks like it's just a bunch of STFs and patrol missions right now though. You can burn through those in a day or two.

But who knows. Maybe CO will get more content from lockbox money.

fantasycharacter · October 2012

twg042370 wrote: »

Maybe CO will get more content from lockbox money.

*Opens fortune cookie*

Keep that carrot in sight

Everything about this game has gotten grindier. They just aggressively introduced the new "cash grind".

It sounds to me exactly as the doom n gloom report states, so I don't think I will expect too much around here.

amosov78 · October 2012

sanmerci wrote: »

A related question: given that STO is growing, are they getting new content of any sort other than these lockboxes?

Yes, the new sector block is pretty much the biggest explorable area added to the game since launch, see Season 7 blogs here. In addition their EP stated the following in that first link in my previous post: "Season 7 is going to be as good, if not better than Season 6, and our goal is that Season 8 will be the closest thing to a "boxed expansion" we've ever done."

We'll have to see if their next season is that big, but generally speaking STO is seeing some progression.

jasinblaze · October 2012

ok i read the entire report from 2011
i think those are all their plans for the chinese market
their dutch division is in charge of us and runic games
i did notice they are considered a company of the Kaymen Islands. making any legal recourse impossible

agentnx5 · October 2012

*removed by request*

jasinblaze · October 2012

i like the new devices. self- control is all that's needed.
i do hope it's profitable , as a lifetime i hope this game stays as long as possible

monaahiru · October 2012

1st day was best and made me feel very happy.
After 2nd day, I was mentally dead. Those keys were just spend to get Drifter's Salvage.
And the 3rd day come, my keys were not used for opening Takofanes' Cache and went straight ahead to Auction House.

At least, they were one of the best item for making some Globals in my hand... Good or bad.

warcanch · October 2012

LTS here. But, I barely/rarely play any more. So, I've a little bit of stipend built up. Since I KNOW the bags aren't going away AND I don't think I'll be spending them on much else, I may buy 10 or 20 keys and give em a go.

What I would PREFER is:

-convert existing gear that these legacy devices are based from into these devices

-put these and other future DEVICES back into the locations as rewards, drops, etc

-and/or put them in one of the stores where you actually SEE which device you want and can purchase THAT ONE.

lordhavelock · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

...Grab Bags have, not these keys & lockboxes, in this game anyways...

What's different between Grab Bags and Key/Lockboxes? Both are methods of "gambling" for in-game goodies with real life money....

I've seen people post comments in the forums that they didn't mind the grab-bags, but they are all over hatin' on the keys/lockboxes. Is it, do you think, becuase the lockboxes are released in-game like ad-spam? A constant "in your face" reminder/temptation to take the gamble and buy a key?

Just curious.

jonsills · October 2012

Well, that and historically, there's always been a way to get grab bags for "free" when introduced - for nothing more than an investment of time, that is. With the lockboxes, however, nothing, not even a Cosmic, drops a Cosmic Key. The only way to get a peek at the goodies is to spring a buck's worth of Zen.

agentnx5 · October 2012

lordhavelock wrote: »

What's different between Grab Bags and Key/Lockboxes? Both are methods of "gambling" for in-game goodies with real life money....

I've seen people post comments in the forums that they didn't mind the grab-bags, but they are all over hatin' on the keys/lockboxes. Is it, do you think, because the lockboxes are released in-game like ad-spam? A constant "in your face" reminder/temptation to take the gamble and buy a key?

Just curious.

Well you are right they work differently functionally but they both are gambling. Gambling with odds in the house's favor. I'll be honest you know why I used so many? It wasn't for what was in the lockboxes, it was for the Legacy Devices. I needed the Drifter Salvage. I've spent what's left though.

What does annoy me a LOT about them is they show up on EVERY drop when on Need or Greed loot mode. Why? Because they aren't labeled as "white" rank gear like they should be. So it proc's the querry for Need or Greed or Pass each time. Kind of irritating...

darqaura · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Well you are right they work differently functionally but they both are gambling. Gambling with odds in the house's favor. I'll be honest you know why I used so many? It wasn't for what was in the lockboxes, it was for the Legacy Devices. I needed the Drifter Salvage. I've spent what's left though.

What does annoy me a LOT about them is they show up on EVERY drop when on Need or Greed loot mode. Why? Because they aren't labeled as "white" rank gear like they should be. So it proc's the querry for Need or Greed or Pass each time. Kind of irritating...

See THAT would piss me off if I ever bothered to do any of the legacy lair-type content anymore.

Having to click pass or whatever to get that box off screen was annoying enough. Now its even more regular? BAHHHH!!!! :mad:

secksegai · October 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Well you are right they work differently functionally but they both are gambling. Gambling with odds in the house's favor. I'll be honest you know why I used so many? It wasn't for what was in the lockboxes, it was for the Legacy Devices. I needed the Drifter Salvage. I've spent what's left though.

What does annoy me a LOT about them is they show up on EVERY drop when on Need or Greed loot mode. Why? Because they aren't labeled as "white" rank gear like they should be. So it proc's the querry for Need or Greed or Pass each time. Kind of irritating...

They look to be under the special heading, something you can't even search for in the AH anymore.

But yes, they drop far more frequently than necessary. It's easy to irritate would be customers by trying to shove it down their throat (ie insanely common drop) versus making it a worthwhile reward.

jasinblaze · October 2012

warcanch wrote: »

-convert existing gear that these legacy devices are based from into these devices

this by its self is a great idea, or maybe you could convert them to 40 drifter salvage at the players choice, so they could try to get a new device.

kallethen · October 2012

I've only gotten a key through the AH, but the fact that keys are found there means people are buying them. The trade channel has seen lots of "WTT <insert Legion gear here>". messages. So yeah, they've been selling.

I wholeheartedly believe that the Tako lock box looks to have a MUCH better prize list than what we've seen with many previous grab bags ("I only got 1 Drifter Salvage out of that?"). At least tempting enough for me to get a key through the AH.

twg042370 · October 2012

lordhavelock wrote: »

What's different between Grab Bags and Key/Lockboxes?

One you have to go get from the Z Store and the other is in every drop and then you have to go to the Z Store.

Keys. Cryptic how profitable have these been for you all?

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