Champions Online and City of Heroes merger?

chewytampa · September 2012

I haven't played COH so I'm really talking out of my butt here..But If I was Perfect World and Cryptic I'd want to acquire it and combine the Universes.. adapt that content to the Champions...pick up those players and Paragon Studios for that matter.

The COH players will have access to their characters and accounts. Although it might be a bare bone versions of what they had (looks, powers, and stats wouldn't be totally the same) they would have access to free retrain and retcons to their toons..same with Champs players who's characters would be affected by the overhaul. Levels would remain the same.

Im guessing COH has way more content so it would be probably rolled out in multiple expansions.. which would be cool if it was in combination with other new content.

Cohesion of characters and story I think would be much easier than the mechanics of it all... You can update missions in Champions zones to include COH characters and visa versa in the COH zones. New adventure packs that show The Freedom Phalanx and Champions working together.

More talking out of my butt..but If its at all possible to combine MMOs Paragon Studios and Cryptic would be about as compatible as you can get I would imagine.. Cryptic originally developing COH and all. That and COH is ending, not being sold, just getting boxed up and dying so if another Corporation made an offer on it why would NCsoft not bargain?

I know there's all kinds of logistics I'm not considering but I'm just pipe dreaming here and it was on my mind and I wanted to share.

thecosmic1 · September 2012

There's no advantage for PW to buy CoH. They already own CO, and superhero games are a much smaller market then fantasy - meaning not as many regular players. The millions they would spend on buying the CoH IP could just as easily be spent to provide new content for CO - and that's not going to happen in this economy either.

Plus, NCSoft is notorious for holding onto its IP properties, even when not being used - just because they're not using CoH today doesn't mean things might not be different 10 years from now.

tharkan · September 2012

thecosmic1 wrote: »

Plus, NCSoft is notorious for holding onto its IP properties, even when not being used

Agreed, just look at what happened when ex NCSoft employees took concepts from the then scrapped Lineage 3 to make TERA.

championshewolf · September 2012

I've stated it several times, this will all depend on the clause when Cryptic sold the IP. It is very possible that the IP could revert back to Cryptic in the event COH closes. However, in all my MMO years, I've never, ever seen a company release an IP even after the game closes. I know people keep making false hope about such things, or a CoH 2, but the likeliness of this is not there.

If NCsoft retains the rights to IP even after the closure, most likely all they will do is sit on it. If Cryptic gets the IP back due to a clause after this closure, it will take sometime, if they do anything, to trickle in City of based content into Champions and even then you will probably only see them do it if they can make it work with the lore of Champions.

There would probably be a few quick things they could add like emotes, or a statue or something, but I wouldn't expect major NPCs or things to appear if that even ever happened.

grifvindh · September 2012

Even if it were possible for the IP to revert, there's the additional challenge of Champions. The Champions universe is IP in its own right that has been licensed from the Champions Role Playing Game. Trying to merge the two could potentially create problems on that side of it as well.

championshewolf · September 2012

grifvindh wrote: »

Even if it were possible for the IP to revert, there's the additional challenge of Champions. The Champions universe is IP in its own right that has been licensed from the Champions Role Playing Game. Trying to merge the two could potentially create problems on that side of it as well.

Uhh. Cryptic owns Champions IP. No that's not a type-o. They aren't licensing, they own the IP. And City of Heroes was based on the Champions IP.

thecosmic1 · September 2012

The IP was a direct sale to NCSoft - Cryptic sold its 50% ownership of the CoH IP and then licensed NCSoft the use of the game engine. The CoH properties will not revert back to Cryptic simply because NCSoft stopped producing it - if that were the case NCSoft would just let CoH continue to run and just never provide additional content or updates. At best Cryptic would have been offered a first opportunity clause to buy the IP if NCSoft ever decides to sell it.

taintedmess · September 2012

grifvindh wrote: »

Even if it were possible for the IP to revert, there's the additional challenge of Champions. The Champions universe is IP in its own right that has been licensed from the Champions Role Playing Game. Trying to merge the two could potentially create problems on that side of it as well.

weirdly its actually the other way round cryptic own the champions IP (at least all the superhero stuff give or take a couple of characters) and license it back to hero games who make the role playing version.

championshewolf · September 2012

thecosmic1 wrote: »

The IP was a direct sale to NCSoft - Cryptic sold its 50% ownership of the CoH IP and then licensed NCSoft the use of the game engine. The CoH properties will not revert back to Cryptic simply because NCSoft stopped producing it - if that were the case NCSoft would just let CoH continue to run and just never provide additional content or updates. At best Cryptic would have been offered a first opportunity clause to buy the IP if NCSoft ever decides to sell it.

Unless you were there, and all business contracts have clauses, you can't say for sure what happened.

thecosmic1 · September 2012

championshewolf wrote: »

Unless you were there, and all business contracts have clauses, you can't say for sure what happened.

That's very true, but having worked on over 50 buyout/licensing agreements over the years I feel fairly safe in stating what I did. You can choose to feel however you like as well.

championshewolf · September 2012

thecosmic1 wrote: »

That's very true, but having worked on over 50 buyout/licensing agreements over the years I feel fairly safe in stating what I did. You can choose to feel however you like as well.

Well I do, considering the Cryptic logo and engine are still there, I feel it might be at least plausible there is a return clause if CoH tanked.

thecosmic1 · September 2012

championshewolf wrote: »

Well I do, considering the Cryptic logo and engine are still there, I feel it might be at least plausible there is a return clause if CoH tanked.

The Cryptic logo is there because they own the game engine. Not because they own CoH or have any rights to it.

championshewolf · September 2012

thecosmic1 wrote: »

The Cryptic logo is there because they own the game engine. Not because they own CoH or have any rights to it.

Again, I know why it is officially there, but you are ignoring the part that there is still a chance a clause is there. All sales have clauses, and what happens will depend on those clauses.

thecosmic1 · September 2012

championshewolf wrote: »

Again, I know why it is officially there, but you are ignoring the part that there is still a chance a clause is there. All sales have clauses, and what happens will depend on those clauses.

As I said, you're free to speculate all you want. You can speculate the sun will go nova tomorrow.

But speculations based on what you really wish could happen are just pointless.

CoH is not going to revert to Cryptic. NCSoft wouldn't have paid Cryptic millions - and spent millions more developing the game in the last 5 years - just to allow that to happen. They would just leave the Servers online and let people keep playing without Support or additional updates forever before they allowed that to happen.

But feel free to keep hope alive that someone Cryptic will end up with CoH through some odd clause if it makes you happy.

sigmaseven0 · September 2012

Would this even work on a lore level?
Champs and COH have different catalyst for why ppl have super powers and exist in different universes. Also, CO has multifaria and COH has preditoria, the alternate dimension thing has already been done to death in both games.

Alternate dimensions meeting seems contrived and retconing COH into CO sounds like more than Cryptic can handle, especially considering how big COH fans are on lore.

Do you really think Cryptic could retcon COX into CO without butchering it? And isn't Statesman dead?

championshewolf · September 2012

sigmaseven0 wrote: »

Would this even work on a lore level?
Champs and COH have different catalyst for why ppl have super powers and exist in different universes. Also, CO has multifaria and COH has preditoria, the alternate dimension thing has already been done to death in both games.

Alternate dimensions meeting seems contrived and retconing COH into CO sounds like more than Cryptic can handle, especially considering how big COH fans are on lore.

Do you really think Cryptic could retcon COX into CO without butchering it? And isn't Statesman dead?

It's quite possible, after all, CoH was based on the Champions PnP. Some alternate dimension thing happens. Multiverses always exist and such. Even CoH was big on their own alternate dimensions plot point, though I think people were exceptionally sick of Praetoria and such.

Personally, I did not like how they killed off Statesman. That seemed a bit of a low blow there and considering the characters that were killed off, was down out of spite. But I can look past that and see Statesman brought back.

thecosmic1 · September 2012

sigmaseven0 wrote: »

Do you really think Cryptic could retcon COX into CO without butchering it? And isn't Statesman dead?

The CO team doesn't even have the manpower to create regular content for this game. They certainly don't have the manpower to rewrite 2 world's histories and then convert thousands of maps and characters to the new engine. If Cryptic were going to put that much effort into CO they would just do it with all new content - you can create new content easily. Heck, Cryptic literally owns thousands of things they bought with the Champions IP that they've not even hinted at using in this game yet.

towershield · September 2012

sigmaseven0 wrote: »

Would this even work on a lore level?
Champs and COH have different catalyst for why ppl have super powers and exist in different universes. Also, CO has multifaria and COH has preditoria, the alternate dimension thing has already been done to death in both games.

Alternate dimensions meeting seems contrived and retconing COH into CO sounds like more than Cryptic can handle, especially considering how big COH fans are on lore.

Do you really think Cryptic could retcon COX into CO without butchering it? And isn't Statesman dead?

Cryptic could just Flashpoint the whole thing and integrate them that way. But considering that they won't get the rights to CoX it's kinda pointless to dwell on the subject.

championshewolf · September 2012

thecosmic1 wrote: »

The CO team doesn't even have the manpower to create regular content for this game. They certainly don't have the manpower to rewrite 2 world's histories and then convert thousands of maps and characters to the new engine. If Cryptic were going to put that much effort into CO they would just do it with all new content - you can create new content easily. Heck, Cryptic literally owns thousands of things they bought with the Champions IP that they've not even hinted at using in this game yet.

I'd say just a few characters not the entirety of Paragon City, though that could be for a later expansion. Some of the history would have to change, of course, but Paragon, being it's own separate city, could fit within Champions. After all, there are people that use Paragon in their own Champions PnP games.

Personall,y i already know the things I would definitely retcon out from City of, in this event, namely the whole Dark Astoria fiasco, and Praetoria would probably go.

sigmaseven0 · September 2012

shieldtower wrote: »

But considering that they won't get the rights to CoX it's kinda pointless to dwell on the subject.

I agree, i was just exploring the idea.

sigmaseven0 · September 2012

championshewolf wrote: »

Personall,y i already know the things I would definitely retcon out from City of, in this event, namely the whole Dark Astoria fiasco, and Praetoria would probably go.

If we did get a zone from COX [hypothetically] which one would you bring over?
I would probably go with Steel Canyon or Atlas Park.

agentnx5 · September 2012

This is a divisive topic...

No to a merger. There are many MANY reasons why this is not only highly improbable but not in the best interest of either group.

The questions we need to be asking ourselves are things like:
How to welcome new players coming from CoH?
How to market to CoH players? (i.e.: emotes)
Can the best & brightest of CoH's developers get hired?
What can we do to strengthen the future of Champions Online?

sigmaseven0 wrote: »

If we did get a zone from COX [hypothetically] which one would you bring over?
I would probably go with Steel Canyon or Atlas Park.

Cannibalizing pieces would be smart if it could be done. I'm guessing it can't be done.

championshewolf · September 2012

sigmaseven0 wrote: »

If we did get a zone from COX [hypothetically] which one would you bring over?
I would probably go with Steel Canyon or Atlas Park.

If I could choose a couple of zones from City of, I would choose Atlas Park or Galaxy City for the nostalgia for players, Croatoa (always loved that zone) and for villain side of things I would pick Cap au Diable/Port Oakes (combined) or St. Martial, because those were the best zones.

eirajaeger · September 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Can the best & brightest of CoH's developers get hired?

Noob here, about to check out CO after hearing the news about my beloved CoH. Geez, I only started playing this year. I was about to give up on MMOs as banal, meaningless Skinner boxes, and then I found CoH and was hooked. And now it's going away.

Aside from all the rumoured details, the one thing I think we can say in good faith is that NCSoft dumped Paragon Studios because CoH was not profitable enough. Good developers and writers cost good money. It would be really awesome if some other company, like Perfect World, were to pick up the CoH devs, but is PW really more dedicated to good content and storytelling than NCSoft apparently is? I hope so but I'm not optimistic, and I'm off to play CO for a bit to see if I can tell.

logandarklighter · September 2012

championshewolf wrote: »

Uhh. Cryptic owns Champions IP. No that's not a type-o. They aren't licensing, they own the IP. And City of Heroes was based on the Champions IP.

Cryptic does indeed own the Champions IP outright.

But your statement that City of Heroes was based on the Champions IP is not accurate. Or at least, needs context.

The original Devs and Creators of the Lore for City of Heroes may have played the Champions tabletop game. The signature characters such as Statesman and Positron may have started life as characters in that tabletop game using the Hero system rules.

But what ultimately became City of Heroes bears hardly any direct resemblance to the Champions IP. If there are any characters that serve in similar roles (Doctor Destroyer vs Lord Arachnos) then those characters tend to be rather wildly different, at least in terms of look and style. And in most cases, certainly in terms of background story.

Other examples:

I find no direct correlation between the various street gangs of Paragon (Hellions, Skulls, Trolls, Outcasts, Freakshow) with those of MC Westside (Purple Gang, The Maniacs, the Cult of the Dragon, the Outlaws, the... er... Aces? I think?)

The only two that even vaguely come close in style are the Maniacs and the Freakshow. And the Freakshow are a cyberpunk gang with various degrees of obvious cybernetics. The maniacs actually -used- to look more like them, but since they were altered, they look even less.

Ghost Widow = ... ... what? There's nothing in Champions I can think of that is equivalent. Unless someone's made a Nemesis based on her. Demosille Nocturne... Maybe? Sort of? If you squint hard?

Positron appears at first to be a Power Armor character similar to Defender. But he's not really a classic Iron Man type at all. His powers are innate and he only uses the suit to -contain- them.

The Rikti and the Qularr are both alien invaders, but I think the similarity pretty much ends right there. Especially when you get deeper into the lore and discover that the Rikti are genetically HUMAN, but from a different dimension where they altered themselves. And the Qularr are pretty much exactly what they appear to be.

I can think of a few more examples, but I think you get the idea, yes?

COH was, in terms of lore, it's own unique thing separate from Champions. If it was even vaguely similar at first, it soon branched wildly off because of the different people writing for it. And I think it was that way even before it launched for the first time.

chewytampa · September 2012

Anything can be made to work on a Lore level but I see how it would be pointless if its not possible to get it from NCSoft for cheap, I guess I'm being hypothetical. I think what made me curious was the already made content for CoH. On a programming level would remastering or engineering that stuff be quicker and cheaper than going from scratch? Say update mechanics, some of the graphics, and the lore and release parts as they go, maybe zones at a time "The Paragon City Expansion Part 1" etc..or is CoH just so different there's no way?

quasimojo1 · September 2012

You can speculate on magical unicorns, or focus on the things that are actually within your control to do something about (e.g. helping the transition for new players, etc.) I would propose that the latter is a more useful endeavor, but I know that some people love chasing unicorns.

chewytampa · September 2012

quasimojo1 wrote: »

You can speculate on magical unicorns, or focus on the things that are actually within your control to do something about (e.g. helping the transition for new players, etc.) I would propose that the latter is a more useful endeavor, but I know that some people love chasing unicorns.

I think your speculating too much on people who like to speculate on magical unicorns.

haleakala · September 2012

Champions PNP has a lot of lore of lore that has not yet been explored.

Buying more lore to use is more costly than using stuff you own already.

Acquiring the intellectual rights to the City of lore would cost money.

CO is not likely a big money maker.

Spending money on something that provides marginal returns falls under "high risk, low reward,' a corporate no-no.

Do the math.

Now, if there is some reversion clause, that would not apply. However, even if the rights revert, integrating the two story lines would require thought and effort and thus, expenditure.

Not likely.

Sorry to be a wet blanket.

malvou · September 2012

Ha. One can wish for a merger.

*wishes very very very hard*

zahinder · September 2012

I think the best thing CO could take from CoH is being inspired to write better stories.

(Though, personally, I never found CoH's writing any better than CO's. Maybe more varied and more of it.)

thecosmic1 · September 2012

What Cryptic really wishes is that CoH were still going. As it is, Cryptic has now lost another source of revenue - the licensing fees NCSoft paid them to use the game engine. Now there's even less money in the Cryptic coffers.

lotar295 · September 2012

Well if CoH's IP was to revert back to cryptic,there could be so,so much they could do to bring players FLOODING in,like have paragon city as an alternate starting zone,with influence of the Freedom Phalanx and the Champs,as well as having signature villains,maybe even team-ups,like Dr. Destroyer and Lord Recluse fighting us,but the main things it would generate are:

-flooding of new players
-Lots of new zones,which we have been craving
-new powers
-new villains
-new costume options
-and pretty much every major thing about CoH except for villain side,that can't work here

thecosmic1 · September 2012

Yeah, they'd be flooding right in - in about 2 years after Cryptic managed to get it all programmed into the new engine and launched it.

lotar295 · September 2012

thecosmic1 wrote: »

Yeah, they'd be flooding right in - in about 2 years after Cryptic managed to get it all programmed into the new engine and launched it.

but still,it'd CoH IP+Champions IP+CO heroes and villains+CoH heroes and villains+new mechanics=Best...Superhero...MMORPG.....EVER!

wacky99 · September 2012

Just let it die naturally. Eight years is a pretty good run for an MMO.

agentnx5 · September 2012

wacky99 wrote: »

Just let it die naturally. Eight years is a pretty good run for an MMO.

Sorry, I think you missed the big announcement on the front page of this website about 13 years and still going:
http://www.everquest.com/

Here's another one just to further beat your faulty logic to death:
http://blog.counter-strike.net/

Your logic is shallow.

Some games do die off, but they die when those that own and/or manage them decide it's time for them to die, not a preset "8 years" limit.

Oh yeah and some "dead games" get new life like this:
http://www.gog.com/

jennymachx · September 2012

As much as CoX's lore is rich and heavily-developed, I'm not keen on the idea of incorporating it into CO's if that's even remotely possible. I know I'd get flak for saying this but I actually like the campiness of CO. It doesn't take itself too seriously with it's references to pop culture, while maintaining a reasonable level of seriousness to let you know that yes, the world is in danger and you're part of a great coalition to save it. Both games have repetetive mission chains and while CoX has arguably better-written storylines for its mission chains, I somehow enjoyed CO's missions a lot more.

I've always felt that CoX took itself way too seriously and while I acknowledge that it was indeed a superhero-themed game, it didn't have that "comic book" feel for me, and I'm not talking about CO's comic bold-outline graphic option (I have it disabled). CO felt much more like a superhero comic book in live action to me than CoX ever did, both visually and lore-wise in general.

chewytampa · September 2012

haleakala wrote: »

Champions PNP has a lot of lore of lore that has not yet been explored.

Buying more lore to use is more costly than using stuff you own already.

Acquiring the intellectual rights to the City of lore would cost money.

CO is not likely a big money maker.

Spending money on something that provides marginal returns falls under "high risk, low reward,' a corporate no-no.

Do the math.

Now, if there is some reversion clause, that would not apply. However, even if the rights revert, integrating the two story lines would require thought and effort and thus, expenditure.

Not likely.

Sorry to be a wet blanket.

Those are all good points, business conundrum nightmare I'm sure. I think I'm looking at it as compounding two businesses. AT&T wants to buy T-mobile its for the network and clients T-Mobile has established, I think that's a different business model for expenditure than just adding more features and content for the customers it already has, which is limited.

To that point I'm curious if it would work programming wise, a lot of content already built if you cant adapt it to the game engine without starting from scratch you are just buying the IP.

wacky99 · September 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Sorry, I think you missed the big announcement on the front page of this website about 13 years and still going:
http://www.everquest.com/
Here's another one just to further beat your faulty logic to death:
http://blog.counter-strike.net/
Your logic is shallow.
Some games do die off, but they die when those that own and/or manage them decide it's time for them to die, not a preset "8 years" limit.
Oh yeah and some "dead games" get new life like this:
http://www.gog.com/

City of Heroes was released on the 28th of April 2004. That's 8 years. Hardly shallow logic.

NCSoft management seem to have decided that it is time for CoX to die, as per your statement.

I would not have thought I would have to explain a single line comment to you, Agentnx5. You're reading too much into it.

jennymachx · September 2012

lotar295 wrote: »

Well if CoH's IP was to revert back to cryptic,there could be so,so much they could do to bring players FLOODING in,like have paragon city as an alternate starting zone,with influence of the Freedom Phalanx and the Champs,as well as having signature villains,maybe even team-ups,like Dr. Destroyer and Lord Recluse fighting us

No thanks to Lord Recluse showing up. CO doesn't need another Mary Sue type master villain. Dr. Destroyer already has filled that role.

oddbirdy · September 2012

agentnx5 wrote: »

Sorry, I think you missed the big announcement on the front page of this website about 13 years and still going:
http://www.everquest.com/

Here's another one just to further beat your faulty logic to death:
http://blog.counter-strike.net/

Your logic is shallow.

Some games do die off, but they die when those that own and/or manage them decide it's time for them to die, not a preset "8 years" limit.

Oh yeah and some "dead games" get new life like this:
http://www.gog.com/

...arguing faulty logic by using anecdotal evidence to support your claims? :rolleyes:

Just because there are MMOs that last longer than 8 years does not mean 8 years isn't a pretty good run. It is.

Wishing aside, we all know Cryptic doesn't have the resources for a change of this magnitude. As has been mentioned already in the thread, welcoming in the new CoH players and making this an enjoyable environment for them is a better stance than wistfully thinking about what-could-have-been.

chewytampa · September 2012

oddbirdy wrote: »

Wishing aside, we all know Cryptic doesn't have the resources for a change of this magnitude. As has been mentioned already in the thread, welcoming in the new CoH players and making this an enjoyable environment for them is a better stance than wistfully thinking about what-could-have-been.

ugh..Yes, yes its absurd I know, who cares? There's like 5 threads welcoming new players..they are being welcomed, deservedly so. I throw money into this game and I want a thread of wistful-hypothetical-conjecture about superhero video games...No one's posting any nude pictures of themselves or talking politics. People can quit acting like its hurting someone's delicate sensibilities.

nepht · September 2012

Perfect World buying the CoH IP and handing it back to Cryptic would be the second most epic thing they could do. They could bring back The Statesman

The first would be not blocking China and Russia. I miss Pandaman's posts

aaronh42 · September 2012

Merging of CO and CoH? No

CoH II? Definitely.

CoH has possibly my favorite superhero lore out there.

championshewolf · September 2012

aaronh42 wrote: »

Merging of CO and CoH? No

CoH II? Definitely.

CoH has possibly my favorite superhero lore out there.

COH2 is definitely never going to happen, not with as niche as super hero MMO genre has been.

lotar295 · September 2012

aaronh42 wrote: »

Merging of CO and CoH? No

CoH II? Definitely.

CoH has possibly my favorite superhero lore out there.

As much as I'd wish for CoH to come back in some way,CoH 2 probably isn't doing to happen,since Paragon closed and NCsoft hasn't sold the game to anyone yet,but maybe if cryptic could buy it,then they could either do it or fuse it with CO,it'd bring more profit to them and PWE,and if I'm not mistaken,Cryptic made CoH in the first place,so technically can't they take it back and start producing stuff for it again?

lokikin · September 2012

"City of Champions: Freedom for All Heroes Online"!

c3rvand0 · September 2012

Sorry to state the obvious, but a CO and CoH merger is not going to happen. Just because CoH has a lot of content and lore already, it doesn't mean it would be simple to rewrite it completely for the champions engine. Hell, they struggle to add any content without multiple bugs. If they adapted CoH content it would make the Kitchen Sink fiasco look like a minor hiccup.

In any case, they have huge amounts of content already in the Champions PnP universe so why would they go outside the universe and try and shoehorn in other content? Look at what DC had to do to include heroes from its many purchases. Multiple Crises later and there are still issues. I really think a parallel universe is an awful idea and would much prefer a new city zone as has been suggested.

ariesmajor · September 2012

haleakala wrote: »

CO is not likely a big money maker.

Sorry to be a wet blanket.

I don't believe this statement is correct. Im going to refer you to a youtube video,
And I want you to tell me where the money from CO actually goes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c

After watching it, think about CO....now think about the amount of users, now think about the amount of users subscribed, now think about amount of micro transactions for each lil tidbit of new costumes powers etc they put out on a regular basis, all made in house. <----they don't have to call some company in korea and pay extra for new content each release.

Now total all that up, then factor in the payroll for the size of cryptic, now ask yourself after figuring out all of this, because you're most likely gonna end up extra money left over.

I think its the opposite, I think that not only does champions make money, but I can bet they have a nest egg stowed away to boot, especially as old as this game actually is.

thecosmic1 · September 2012

ariesmajor wrote: »

I don't believe this statement is correct. Im going to refer you to a youtube video,
And I want you to tell me where the money from CO actually goes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-IIn-DG-c

After watching it, think about CO....now think about the amount of users, now think about the amount of users subscribed, now think about amount of micro transactions for each lil tidbit of new costumes powers etc they put out on a regular basis, all made in house. <----they don't have to call some company in korea and pay extra for new content each release.

Now total all that up, then factor in the payroll for the size of cryptic, now ask yourself after figuring out all of this, because you're most likely gonna end up extra money left over.

I think its the opposite, I think that not only does champions make money, but I can bet they have a nest egg stowed away to boot, especially as old as this game actually is.

The amount of users are pointless. In a standard FTP model only about 10% of the users contribute money to the game. The rest simply play for free or grind for their C-Store items. This is very-much the FTP norm. On top of that Cryptic has tons of LTS members who get a Stipend each month - and that's $5.00 they're giving away hoping the player will spend $10.00.

And while Cryptic might not need to call Korea they do need to call China. Just as NCSoft owned CoH PW owns CO. Cryptic can't do whatever it wants whenever it wants. It's given a budget by PW for CO and must work within the budget.

I really don't believe CO is doing overly well. It might be making money, but in this economy - and being a niche genre - I wouldn't bet the farm on how long it might stick around. And that's not saying it's going anywhere any time soon, but the CoH players would never have believed their game would be closing if you asked them 2 months ago, either.

Champions Online and City of Heroes merger?

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