Yes. I'm not normally one to quote the Bible, as I'm not even the slightest bit religious, but it has a quote that's very applicable and I use it a lot in regards to "x is a rip off of y".
In the original Latin, the line is rendered "nihil novi sub sole." It literally means, word for word: nihil from the latin for nothing, novi from the latin for new, sub from the latin for under, and sole from the latin for sun. In otherwords "nothing new under the sun." All works build upon previous works and there are no purely original works.
That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done,
So there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there anything of which someone might say,
"See, this is new"?
Already it has existed for ages
Which were before us.
Or, as Robert Heinlein said about archetypal storylines and characters, "File off the serial numbers, change the body lines a bit, give it a new paint job, switch it over the state line, and it's yours!"
(Again, the issue with cloning is that the cloners aren't filing off the serial numbers, much less changing the body lines or the paint job...)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Here is what I have gathered about Mark Whitaker AKA "Nighthawk".
Nighthawk was brought into the Fifth Edition (Published in 2002) of The Champions (Hero Universe) and tagged as "a grim inventor/martial artist hero". Nighthawk quit over a difference of values with Defender and was replaced by Kinetik. All From Wikipedia- click here for page.
As for the ripoff part, well here you go.
If there is any ripoff it would not be of DC's The Batman, but of Marvels Nighthawk aka Kyle Richmond. He is from the Marvels Earth-616 Mainstream Continuity (there are many other variations of him in other continuities as well). Please read more of him here.
Know the only ripoff with Marvels Nighthawk is the costume and the name and that is were it stops, nothing else is similar.
Isn't learning fun!!!
If this is a breach in forum rules I am sorry, but somebody had to do it.
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If there is any ripoff it would not be of DC's The Batman, but of Marvels Nighthawk aka Kyle Richmond. He is from the Marvels Earth-616 Mainstream Continuity (there are many other variations of him in other continuities as well). Please read more of him here.
Know the only ripoff with Marvels Nighthawk is the costume and the name and that is were it stops, nothing else is similar.
He even has the "criminal, vigilante, or hero?" mystique about him.
Still, the characters are just different enough. Besides, comic companies like using expys of each others' characters all the time. DC didn't sue Marvel over Squadron Supreme, for instance.
Well, seeing as how characters can't be copyrighted, only trademarked, it falls under trademark law. Under trademark law, as long as there is no way that people can confuse the two characters, it's fine. Here's an image which illustrates my point. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17771862/nighthawk.jpg
Look at the picture...I sawe a batman knockoff. Now..for those that don't.
Boomerang Toss - A new boomerang based energy builder
Ricochet Throw - Throw a boomerang in a precise arc that bounces from foe to foe, dealing heavy damage.
Throwing Blades - Throw a flurry of boomerangs in a cone in front of you, dealing damage to all affected foes.
Grapple Gun Pull - Grab hold of your target with your trusty grappling gun, yanking him towards you.
Gas Pellets - Throw 4 pellets that damage and snare all targets inside their choking clouds.
Bolas - Take careful aim with your bolas and wrap a target in the powerful twine, dealing heavy crushing damage.
Strafing Run - Mark a location on the ground, where a jet will rain a flurry of bullets down, striking all targets.
Not to mention the costume...is blatantly similar to the dark knight rises armor.
Now I really see batman. Wonder if this will catch DC's attention.
What, no comparison between the Black Panther and Batman, or Hawkeye and Green Arrow, or Fate and Dr. Strange?
There are only so many ways to fight crime. Some people are going to have the same powers/techniques.
Not sure if you can call Nighthawk a rip-off because there are other characters based on Batman which are still good characters eg Moon Knight and The Shroud.
However I do think that The Armadillo was a blatant rip-off of the Juggernaut, that was disgraceful. Sometimes I do think that instead of making new characters creators sometimes base them too much on existing characters.
If you have read a lot of comics sometimes you can see where some of the ideas come from. Not sure if that is a bad thing because as mentioned earlier ideas can come from another source but that can still be a good thing if done well.
The only thing is that whenever I think of the name Nighthawk I think of the white Nighthawk from The Squadron Supreme and I do think that guy was kinda rubbish. There was even a joke made about him in the Civil War but maybe it was just the speciifc situation that made it funny.
Ripoff of not, Armadillo has been a part of Champions lore since 1981 when the pnp was launched, so he has a perfectly legitimate place in the CO universe...
In fact, one could argue that his placement is more legitimate than Nighthawk's, since Armadillo was created about 20 years prior...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
The last write-up I read on 'Dillo was in 3rd-edition Champs, where he was a guy wearing special armor designed for Project Sunburst (and which he stole - gee, who could possibly foresee that?). He had high PD and ED from the armor, as well as superhuman strength and a few other powers, all bought OIF through the suit.
Juggy, OTOH, is a nigh-unstoppable force of nature, powered by the Ruby of Cyttorak, whose armor is mostly decorative (except the helmet, designed to protect him from psionic attack). That's why the armor is made of leather, not metal.
How exactly is 'Dillo a Juggy ripoff? Has something changed about his origin since '85?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Not reading all 6 pages....
If anything Nighthawk could be confused with the Amalgam (co-owned trademark of both DC Comics *AND* Marvel Comics) DARK CLAW...
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Well, if such a suit were to exist, there might be some question as to who would sue whom - considering that Nighthawk precedes the entire Amalgam storyline by quite a bit...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I think Nighthawk represents a pretty legitimate archetype, from Batman and Midnighter to Nightwing or Moon Knight or Shadowhawk or Nightowl or Blue Beetle or The Spider-- even The Shadow or Daredevil... He's a man in a mask, with training and equipment-- a vigilante who haunts the night, striking fear into the hearts of criminals, a force that says that the shadows aren't safe for the wicked. This is a thing that has deep roots in comics and the pulp tradition, that has been used many, many times by various creators going back to at least the 1930s.
Champions has always been a love-letter to these sorts of things-- alien invasions, killer robots, giant gorillas, spandex-clad champions of justice, hex-slinging wizards in ridiculous outfits, alien gladiators from beyond the stars. We're a very trope-heavy environment! And that's part of what Champions was about since its inception as an RPG: taking all those things that are great about comics and superheroes that we love, and giving us all a chance to play with them.
I think Nighthawk represents a pretty legitimate archetype, from Batman and Midnighter to Nightwing or Moon Knight or Shadowhawk or Nightowl or Blue Beetle or The Spider-- even The Shadow or Daredevil... He's a man in a mask, with training and equipment-- a vigilante who haunts the night, striking fear into the hearts of criminals, a force that says that the shadows aren't safe for the wicked. This is a thing that has deep roots in comics and the pulp tradition, that has been used many, many times by various creators going back to at least the 1930s.
Champions has always been a love-letter to these sorts of things-- alien invasions, killer robots, giant gorillas, spandex-clad champions of justice, hex-slinging wizards in ridiculous outfits, alien gladiators from beyond the stars. We're a very trope-heavy environment! And that's part of what Champions was about since its inception as an RPG: taking all those things that are great about comics and superheroes that we love, and giving us all a chance to play with them.
Totally agreed.
The masked avenger without superpowers of his own is a staple that predates almost every character quoted in this thread.
if DC was going to take a look ,they can take a gander at all the DC clones running around in the game, BEFORE they look at nighthawk. yes, Bats and Nighthawk share teh same archetype, but are still very different heroes, established in their own ways [detective comics, and the champions PnP respectively]. as for those new powers, MANY heroes, not just bats, use thsoe type of gadgets, and theyre a set thats been needed for a long while in this game.
Why so pessimistic? Instead of thinking Night Hawk as a Batman rip-off, if anything, try to consider him as a hero inspired by Batman. Batman should be flattered. 8-P
Why so pessimistic? Instead of thinking Night Hawk as a Batman rip-off, if anything, try to consider him as a hero inspired by Batman. Batman should be flattered. 8-P
Well,Nighthawk does not have the name of Batman,therefore,it doesn't violate copyright laws,and his costume has a different face,and Batman doesn't use claws like nighthawk does,or hoods,therefore,Nighthawk is NOT a ripoff
This may be true, but one shouldn't discount that it's release coincides so closely to the movie release, just as the unleashed did when swtor did.
But while we may be familiar with so many iconic superheroes from DC or Marvel, they did get their inspirations from somewhere. I can't think of anything super hero related that I'd find refreshingly original.
This may be true, but one shouldn't discount that it's release coincides so closely to the movie release, just as the unleashed did when swtor did.
But while we may be familiar with so many iconic superheroes from DC or Marvel, they did get their inspirations from somewhere. I can't think of anything super hero related that I'd find refreshingly original.
Maybe DC should pay the Victorian Penny Dreadfuls, as they were the first to publish stories regarding a Batman style dark vigilante who terrorized city folk. He even has many of Batman's iconic costume pieces:
The last write-up I read on 'Dillo was in 3rd-edition Champs, where he was a guy wearing special armor designed for Project Sunburst (and which he stole - gee, who could possibly foresee that?). He had high PD and ED from the armor, as well as superhuman strength and a few other powers, all bought OIF through the suit.
Juggy, OTOH, is a nigh-unstoppable force of nature, powered by the Ruby of Cyttorak, whose armor is mostly decorative (except the helmet, designed to protect him from psionic attack). That's why the armor is made of leather, not metal.
How exactly is 'Dillo a Juggy ripoff? Has something changed about his origin since '85?
Fair enough but if you look at the suit he was wearing it screams juggernaut. It looks so much look juggernaut's outfit I wouldn't want to buy it unless i can change it's apperance.
Fair enough but if you look at the suit he was wearing it screams juggernaut. It looks so much look juggernaut's outfit I wouldn't want to buy it unless i can change it's apperance.
The only thing even similar in the two designs is the head dome, and even then they're different. Armadillo's doesn't even touch his head. Juggernaut's is a helmet with three holes in it.
From there, there's a difference in shoulderpads (armadillo yes, juggernaut no), gloves (armadillo yes, juggernaut - funny bands all up his arms), tights (both completely different in style and color), and boots (both completely different).
You're saying that basically anything with any kind of head dome thing is a Juggernaut rip off?
Why do people have to say anything vaguely similar to a Marvel or DC character is a rip off I've heard so many examples during my time at CO.
Defender is Iron Man ( without the repullsor tech and the full body suit)
Grond is the Hulk ( apart from the no changing back to a human and the horns and stuff)
Viper is Cobra (well except for the snake god thing and other differences I can't be bothered to mention)
Kinetic is the Flash ( I can't argue this one as I'm not up on either character)
now we have
Nighthawk is insert the list from this post and all the reasons its not a rip off.
Armadillo is juggernaut I think Smackwell gave the evidence that isn't true.
What's next witchcraft is the Scarlet witch or Iron Clad is The Hulk from Planet Hulk.
I'm sure I could sit and show similarities between things in Marvel and DC or either of them and Champions this doesn't make them rip-offs.
Yes Cryptic may have released a similar character to Batman at a time when a Batman movie is being released but that's good marketing ( yes I'm as shocked as you that Cryptic knows the first thing about marketing) Using a similar character to hold people playing this game. I would have been more cynical if during the release of the Avengers movie the Champions line up had changed to include an archer and a spy and a norse god and lost the members who didn't fit the avengers concept.
[QUOTE=jonsills;2298671Too many players here think Cryptic "won", and that it's therefore okay to clone. However, trademark law required the holder to defend his trademark "vigorously" - and recall that these days Marvel's "vigorous defense" would be carried out by the justly-feared Disney legal department.[/QUOTE]
For those of you who don't know why Disney is justly feared in trademark lawsuits here's a few Disney trademark facts.
The last amendment to US trademark law is called the Mickey Mouse Protection Act, not because trademark law is a joke, but because Disney fought for and financed it to extend the trademark on Mickey Mouse.
Disney has sued daycare companies for having painted murals of Disney characters on their walls.
Disney has sued daycare companies for playing Disney movies to keep the kids entertained.
Disney has a history of dragging out trademark and copyright cases they wouldn't normally win to force the defendants to an unfair settlement or bankruptcy.
Disney has the money to drag out a court case long enough to bankrupt Cryptic and PWE 200 times over and still have enough to continue to produce big budget movies.
I recall reading that here in the UK, Toys R Us sent a solicitor's letter to a butcher, trading under the name Sausages R Us, in order to force them to change their name Link here. Since Walt Disney is even more anal, why do people doubt they wouldn't prosecute Cryptic if they had reason to?
I recall reading that here in the UK, Toys R Us sent a solicitor's letter to a butcher, trading under the name Sausages R Us, in order to force them to change their name Link here. Since Walt Disney is even more anal, why do people doubt they wouldn't prosecute Cryptic if they had reason to?
With most of the characters mentioned in this thread they have existed for a long time without a challenge so even Disney's legal department would have a challenge on their hands proving an infringement. Also their costumes are different, names are different and back stories are also different similar yes but essentially different.
Ain't superhero games on their basics rip off from comics? You probably saw many "clones" during your time on various Superhero MMOs. Why they are there? Because powers comes from comics we all read and know. It is same as most fantasy games being WoW or D&D clones depending on whichever you introduced first.
Nighthawk/Power Set isn't an exception. I am just amazed I didn't come across an Invisible Woman clone yet... Force powers are there and now an invisibility passive put into game.:biggrin:
Sid, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Powersets as such, unless they're a unique set not readily seen in comicdom like Spider-Man's, are not trademarkable. Superman can fly, is super-strong and nearly invulnerable, and has super-speed. This is a common enough trope in comics that when Aaron Williams created his comic book/webcomic P. S. 238, he called that the "FISS" set, and said that it was the most-often-registered powerset (Julie Finster, when she was given a new costume as a reward for helping to save a casino when the kids found themselves in Vegas, renamed herself "84", because she's decided to take pride in being the 84th FISS hero).
This does NOT mean it's "okay" to create a FISS character in here (say, using the Behemoth AT and Flight TP), put him in blue tights and a red cape, and call him "Super Guy". Consult the ToS (Section 11, Paragraph C), or look up US trademark law (the particular phrase to keep an eye out for is "vigorous defense"). The powerset isn't trademarked; the powerset, costume, and name together - the essence of the character - are.
In this particular case, Batman is not the original Defender of the Night. His creators said that they drew a lot of inspiration from Zorro and the Shadow. They just put it together in a new and unique way. Similarly, Nighthawk draws inspiration from those sources, and from Batman himself - but Nighthawk puts it together in a different fashion (also in a different fashion from Moon Knight, to whom Nighthawk bears a closer visual resemblance).
If you use the Night Avenger AT and various costume bits to create Batman, you can expect Cryptic to generic your character as soon as they find out about it. That way, if they do get legal notification from DC/Time Warner, they can say that they've performed due diligence, which might help save them from a lawsuit that would bankrupt this company. (Same if you were to create Sue Storm - there's a reason why you don't see Hulkk or Kalel around for very long at a time).
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The only thing even similar in the two designs is the head dome, and even then they're different. Armadillo's doesn't even touch his head. Juggernaut's is a helmet with three holes in it.
From there, there's a difference in shoulderpads (armadillo yes, juggernaut no), gloves (armadillo yes, juggernaut - funny bands all up his arms), tights (both completely different in style and color), and boots (both completely different).
You're saying that basically anything with any kind of head dome thing is a Juggernaut rip off?
I had a feeling somebody was going to say that and I don't believe you period. Obvoulsy it's not exactly the same so pointing out the differences is a waste of time there are enough similarities there to make you think of Juggernaut.
You're talking about the head dome but somehow you failed to notice that their colours are similar.
You're seriously trying to tell me you see some character that is about the same size, similar powerset, similar colour with the head dome thingy and you don't think Juggernaut....please. It's a bit like trying to argue that Gladiator isn't based on Superman because he has a Mohican and has purple skin. I actually like Gladiator but Gladiator is OBVOUSLY inspired and based on Superman, you're not going to look at Gladitor and says thats not the case.
The only thing I might give you is that when you look at the costume from the back that does look quite different.
Why do people have to say anything vaguely similar to a Marvel or DC character is a rip off I've heard so many examples during my time at CO.
Defender is Iron Man ( without the repullsor tech and the full body suit)
Grond is the Hulk ( apart from the no changing back to a human and the horns and stuff)
Viper is Cobra (well except for the snake god thing and other differences I can't be bothered to mention)
Kinetic is the Flash ( I can't argue this one as I'm not up on either character)
now we have
Nighthawk is insert the list from this post and all the reasons its not a rip off.
Armadillo is juggernaut I think Smackwell gave the evidence that isn't true.
What's next witchcraft is the Scarlet witch or Iron Clad is The Hulk from Planet Hulk.
I'm sure I could sit and show similarities between things in Marvel and DC or either of them and Champions this doesn't make them rip-offs.
Yes Cryptic may have released a similar character to Batman at a time when a Batman movie is being released but that's good marketing ( yes I'm as shocked as you that Cryptic knows the first thing about marketing) Using a similar character to hold people playing this game. I would have been more cynical if during the release of the Avengers movie the Champions line up had changed to include an archer and a spy and a norse god and lost the members who didn't fit the avengers concept.
Yes, yes I know and Sapphire is based on Dazzler. You're missing my point, there is nothing wrong with a character being based on another one I already mentioned that Moon Knight and The Shroud are inspired by Batman but are still decent characters. Its just that when I saw Armadillo first thing I thought of was Juggernaut and it put me right off.
Yea and Grond is another character that is too similar.
EDIT: Oh and Kinetik the guy even talks like The Flash sometimes....
I had a feeling somebody was going to say that and I don't believe you period. Obvoulsy it's not exactly the same so pointing out the differences is a waste of time there are enough similarities there to make you think of Juggernaut.
You're talking about the head dome but somehow you failed to notice that their colours are similar.
You're seriously trying to tell me you see some character that is about the same size, similar powerset, similar colour with the head dome thingy and you don't think Juggernaut....please. It's a bit like trying to argue that Gladiator isn't based on Superman because he has a Mohican and has purple skin. I actually like Gladiator but Gladiator is OBVOUSLY inspired and based on Superman, you're not going to look at Gladitor and says thats not the case.
The only thing I might give you is that when you look at the costume from the back that does look quite different.
"Inspired by" is something totally different than ripoff or based on or similar. You said it's "terrible" that they look so similar. And now you're hanging onto color. One guy's a deep red with an orange midriff and the other guy's orange and gray with yellow highlights.
It doesn't matter what you first thought when you saw the costume. Just because you link the two things together doesn't just make it so. The only similarity I see is a head dome, and even then it's totally different than Juggernaut's.
Yes, yes I know and Sapphire is based on Dazzler. You're missing my point, there is nothing wrong with a character being based on another one I already mentioned that Moon Knight and The Shroud are inspired by Batman but are still decent characters. Its just that when I saw Armadillo first thing I thought of was Juggernaut and it put me right off.
Yea and Grond is another character that is too similar.
EDIT: Oh and Kinetik the guy even talks like The Flash sometimes....
What you see as your first impression of who a character looks like is just that your impression. It has been explained that Armadillo is nothing like Juggernaut in looks name or back story.
As for Grond being the Hulk one is a large muscled green man in purple ripped trousers the other is a huge green muscled monster with four arms and horns. One is a doctor experimenting with gamma radiation who is accidently exposed causing then when he gets angry he turns into a green unstoppable raging monster. Who when he calms down reverts to human form. The other is a small time thug who while in prison takes part in a medical experiment flies into a rage gets covered in chemicals, pollution and radiation. This mutates him into a creature of pure, unbridled rage.
Similarities yes but only a few green, muscled and rage. Everything else is different I mean a car and a bicycle share similarities both have wheels and are made of metal and come in a variety of colours but are not the same.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
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Comments
(Again, the issue with cloning is that the cloners aren't filing off the serial numbers, much less changing the body lines or the paint job...)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Nighthawk was brought into the Fifth Edition (Published in 2002) of The Champions (Hero Universe) and tagged as "a grim inventor/martial artist hero". Nighthawk quit over a difference of values with Defender and was replaced by Kinetik. All From Wikipedia- click here for page.
As for the ripoff part, well here you go.
If there is any ripoff it would not be of DC's The Batman, but of Marvels Nighthawk aka Kyle Richmond. He is from the Marvels Earth-616 Mainstream Continuity (there are many other variations of him in other continuities as well). Please read more of him here.
Know the only ripoff with Marvels Nighthawk is the costume and the name and that is were it stops, nothing else is similar.
Isn't learning fun!!!
If this is a breach in forum rules I am sorry, but somebody had to do it.
The real face behind my Champs heroes. Enjoy my awesome beard.
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But whatever.
I already addressed this exact point earlier.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
What, no comparison between the Black Panther and Batman, or Hawkeye and Green Arrow, or Fate and Dr. Strange?
There are only so many ways to fight crime. Some people are going to have the same powers/techniques.
However I do think that The Armadillo was a blatant rip-off of the Juggernaut, that was disgraceful. Sometimes I do think that instead of making new characters creators sometimes base them too much on existing characters.
If you have read a lot of comics sometimes you can see where some of the ideas come from. Not sure if that is a bad thing because as mentioned earlier ideas can come from another source but that can still be a good thing if done well.
The only thing is that whenever I think of the name Nighthawk I think of the white Nighthawk from The Squadron Supreme and I do think that guy was kinda rubbish. There was even a joke made about him in the Civil War but maybe it was just the speciifc situation that made it funny.
In fact, one could argue that his placement is more legitimate than Nighthawk's, since Armadillo was created about 20 years prior...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Juggy, OTOH, is a nigh-unstoppable force of nature, powered by the Ruby of Cyttorak, whose armor is mostly decorative (except the helmet, designed to protect him from psionic attack). That's why the armor is made of leather, not metal.
How exactly is 'Dillo a Juggy ripoff? Has something changed about his origin since '85?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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If anything Nighthawk could be confused with the Amalgam (co-owned trademark of both DC Comics *AND* Marvel Comics) DARK CLAW...
Talk about lawsuit, DC *AND* MARVEL......
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Logan_Wayne_%28Amalgam_Universe%29
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o.O But it seems won't critical so far even I use Imbue.
Guy was a hardcore obvious troll. Move along folks ;P
Champions has always been a love-letter to these sorts of things-- alien invasions, killer robots, giant gorillas, spandex-clad champions of justice, hex-slinging wizards in ridiculous outfits, alien gladiators from beyond the stars. We're a very trope-heavy environment! And that's part of what Champions was about since its inception as an RPG: taking all those things that are great about comics and superheroes that we love, and giving us all a chance to play with them.
Totally agreed.
The masked avenger without superpowers of his own is a staple that predates almost every character quoted in this thread.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Why so pessimistic? Instead of thinking Night Hawk as a Batman rip-off, if anything, try to consider him as a hero inspired by Batman. Batman should be flattered. 8-P
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Z7Ui8nnTc7g/TIsZvJsEuBI/AAAAAAAADSU/eW8eBTuS_FE/s1600/coy+batman.jpg
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Actually, if I remember correctly- they predate damned near every comic book character that actually has superpowers.
This may be true, but one shouldn't discount that it's release coincides so closely to the movie release, just as the unleashed did when swtor did.
But while we may be familiar with so many iconic superheroes from DC or Marvel, they did get their inspirations from somewhere. I can't think of anything super hero related that I'd find refreshingly original.
Maybe DC should pay the Victorian Penny Dreadfuls, as they were the first to publish stories regarding a Batman style dark vigilante who terrorized city folk. He even has many of Batman's iconic costume pieces:
Click Spring-heeled Jack
Fair enough but if you look at the suit he was wearing it screams juggernaut. It looks so much look juggernaut's outfit I wouldn't want to buy it unless i can change it's apperance.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb58378/championsonline/images/7/7b/Armadillo.jpg
Thats terrible.
Bit of a leap there, dude.
http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/thumb/0/03/Juggernaut2.jpg/406px-Juggernaut2.jpg
The only thing even similar in the two designs is the head dome, and even then they're different. Armadillo's doesn't even touch his head. Juggernaut's is a helmet with three holes in it.
From there, there's a difference in shoulderpads (armadillo yes, juggernaut no), gloves (armadillo yes, juggernaut - funny bands all up his arms), tights (both completely different in style and color), and boots (both completely different).
You're saying that basically anything with any kind of head dome thing is a Juggernaut rip off?
Also - http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2009/02/champscombatnyccvid4524.jpg
Defender is Iron Man ( without the repullsor tech and the full body suit)
Grond is the Hulk ( apart from the no changing back to a human and the horns and stuff)
Viper is Cobra (well except for the snake god thing and other differences I can't be bothered to mention)
Kinetic is the Flash ( I can't argue this one as I'm not up on either character)
now we have
Nighthawk is insert the list from this post and all the reasons its not a rip off.
Armadillo is juggernaut I think Smackwell gave the evidence that isn't true.
What's next witchcraft is the Scarlet witch or Iron Clad is The Hulk from Planet Hulk.
I'm sure I could sit and show similarities between things in Marvel and DC or either of them and Champions this doesn't make them rip-offs.
Yes Cryptic may have released a similar character to Batman at a time when a Batman movie is being released but that's good marketing ( yes I'm as shocked as you that Cryptic knows the first thing about marketing) Using a similar character to hold people playing this game. I would have been more cynical if during the release of the Avengers movie the Champions line up had changed to include an archer and a spy and a norse god and lost the members who didn't fit the avengers concept.
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For those of you who don't know why Disney is justly feared in trademark lawsuits here's a few Disney trademark facts.
With most of the characters mentioned in this thread they have existed for a long time without a challenge so even Disney's legal department would have a challenge on their hands proving an infringement. Also their costumes are different, names are different and back stories are also different similar yes but essentially different.
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Nighthawk turns invisble.
He uses claws.
He has a throwing weapon that does damage.
His skills are mostly suited to hunters.
Minus the air strike... swap that out for the shoulder launcher...
Predator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-MZlRCGtJ4&feature=endscreen
Now, the clones will come.
LOL,
Very good point !
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Batman fought him.
Non-Canon. Kind of stupid. But still... Batman fought him.
Here's a video with nearly everything he ever used. The Night Avenger powers are freaking Predator abilities, not Batman abilities, lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z95AquG4BYw&feature=fvwrel
Nighthawk/Power Set isn't an exception. I am just amazed I didn't come across an Invisible Woman clone yet... Force powers are there and now an invisibility passive put into game.:biggrin:
Powersets as such, unless they're a unique set not readily seen in comicdom like Spider-Man's, are not trademarkable. Superman can fly, is super-strong and nearly invulnerable, and has super-speed. This is a common enough trope in comics that when Aaron Williams created his comic book/webcomic P. S. 238, he called that the "FISS" set, and said that it was the most-often-registered powerset (Julie Finster, when she was given a new costume as a reward for helping to save a casino when the kids found themselves in Vegas, renamed herself "84", because she's decided to take pride in being the 84th FISS hero).
This does NOT mean it's "okay" to create a FISS character in here (say, using the Behemoth AT and Flight TP), put him in blue tights and a red cape, and call him "Super Guy". Consult the ToS (Section 11, Paragraph C), or look up US trademark law (the particular phrase to keep an eye out for is "vigorous defense"). The powerset isn't trademarked; the powerset, costume, and name together - the essence of the character - are.
In this particular case, Batman is not the original Defender of the Night. His creators said that they drew a lot of inspiration from Zorro and the Shadow. They just put it together in a new and unique way. Similarly, Nighthawk draws inspiration from those sources, and from Batman himself - but Nighthawk puts it together in a different fashion (also in a different fashion from Moon Knight, to whom Nighthawk bears a closer visual resemblance).
If you use the Night Avenger AT and various costume bits to create Batman, you can expect Cryptic to generic your character as soon as they find out about it. That way, if they do get legal notification from DC/Time Warner, they can say that they've performed due diligence, which might help save them from a lawsuit that would bankrupt this company. (Same if you were to create Sue Storm - there's a reason why you don't see Hulkk or Kalel around for very long at a time).
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I had a feeling somebody was going to say that and I don't believe you period. Obvoulsy it's not exactly the same so pointing out the differences is a waste of time there are enough similarities there to make you think of Juggernaut.
You're talking about the head dome but somehow you failed to notice that their colours are similar.
You're seriously trying to tell me you see some character that is about the same size, similar powerset, similar colour with the head dome thingy and you don't think Juggernaut....please. It's a bit like trying to argue that Gladiator isn't based on Superman because he has a Mohican and has purple skin. I actually like Gladiator but Gladiator is OBVOUSLY inspired and based on Superman, you're not going to look at Gladitor and says thats not the case.
The only thing I might give you is that when you look at the costume from the back that does look quite different.
Yes, yes I know and Sapphire is based on Dazzler. You're missing my point, there is nothing wrong with a character being based on another one I already mentioned that Moon Knight and The Shroud are inspired by Batman but are still decent characters. Its just that when I saw Armadillo first thing I thought of was Juggernaut and it put me right off.
Yea and Grond is another character that is too similar.
EDIT: Oh and Kinetik the guy even talks like The Flash sometimes....
Armadillo might have the color and shape of Juggernaught, but aside from that, he reminds me more of a certain power-suited, animal-themed Marvel villain:
http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/images/rhino.gif
Also, talking fast and being hyperactive in general are common traits amongst speedster characters. It's almost stereotypical for them.
"Inspired by" is something totally different than ripoff or based on or similar. You said it's "terrible" that they look so similar. And now you're hanging onto color. One guy's a deep red with an orange midriff and the other guy's orange and gray with yellow highlights.
It doesn't matter what you first thought when you saw the costume. Just because you link the two things together doesn't just make it so. The only similarity I see is a head dome, and even then it's totally different than Juggernaut's.
You're honestly reading too much into it.
This.
Armadillo is far more similar to Rhino than he is to Juggernaut.
What you see as your first impression of who a character looks like is just that your impression. It has been explained that Armadillo is nothing like Juggernaut in looks name or back story.
As for Grond being the Hulk one is a large muscled green man in purple ripped trousers the other is a huge green muscled monster with four arms and horns. One is a doctor experimenting with gamma radiation who is accidently exposed causing then when he gets angry he turns into a green unstoppable raging monster. Who when he calms down reverts to human form. The other is a small time thug who while in prison takes part in a medical experiment flies into a rage gets covered in chemicals, pollution and radiation. This mutates him into a creature of pure, unbridled rage.
Similarities yes but only a few green, muscled and rage. Everything else is different I mean a car and a bicycle share similarities both have wheels and are made of metal and come in a variety of colours but are not the same.
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*checks self for trio of red dots*
That is kind of the point?
Maybe he's behind us.........
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain