Nighthawk..ripoff....

n0vastarone · August 2012

Look at the picture...I sawe a batman knockoff. Now..for those that don't.

Boomerang Toss - A new boomerang based energy builder
Ricochet Throw - Throw a boomerang in a precise arc that bounces from foe to foe, dealing heavy damage.
Throwing Blades - Throw a flurry of boomerangs in a cone in front of you, dealing damage to all affected foes.
Grapple Gun Pull - Grab hold of your target with your trusty grappling gun, yanking him towards you.
Gas Pellets - Throw 4 pellets that damage and snare all targets inside their choking clouds.
Bolas - Take careful aim with your bolas and wrap a target in the powerful twine, dealing heavy crushing damage.
Strafing Run - Mark a location on the ground, where a jet will rain a flurry of bullets down, striking all targets.

Not to mention the costume...is blatantly similar to the dark knight rises armor.

Now I really see batman. Wonder if this will catch DC's attention.

theapygoos · August 2012

if DC was going to take a look ,they can take a gander at all the DC clones running around in the game, BEFORE they look at nighthawk. yes, Bats and Nighthawk share teh same archetype, but are still very different heroes, established in their own ways [detective comics, and the champions PnP respectively]. as for those new powers, MANY heroes, not just bats, use thsoe type of gadgets, and theyre a set thats been needed for a long while in this game.

lotar295 · August 2012

n0vastarone wrote: »

Look at the picture...I sawe a batman knockoff. Now..for those that don't.

Boomerang Toss - A new boomerang based energy builder
Ricochet Throw - Throw a boomerang in a precise arc that bounces from foe to foe, dealing heavy damage.
Throwing Blades - Throw a flurry of boomerangs in a cone in front of you, dealing damage to all affected foes.
Grapple Gun Pull - Grab hold of your target with your trusty grappling gun, yanking him towards you.
Gas Pellets - Throw 4 pellets that damage and snare all targets inside their choking clouds.
Bolas - Take careful aim with your bolas and wrap a target in the powerful twine, dealing heavy crushing damage.
Strafing Run - Mark a location on the ground, where a jet will rain a flurry of bullets down, striking all targets.

Not to mention the costume...is blatantly similar to the dark knight rises armor.

Now I really see batman. Wonder if this will catch DC's attention.

Well,Nighthawk does not have the name of Batman,therefore,it doesn't violate copyright laws,and his costume has a different face,and Batman doesn't use claws like nighthawk does,or hoods,therefore,Nighthawk is NOT a ripoff

bioshrike · August 2012

But isn't Batman himself draw elements from various pulp and other characters from the 20's and 30's?

Regardless, this is a case where the two are different enough to be acceptable. Just like how Watchmen uses characters that are very similar to other DC Characters - Nite Owl = Batman, etc.

nepht · August 2012

bioshrike wrote: »

But isn't Batman himself draw elements from various pulp and other characters from the 20's and 30's?

Regardless, this is a case where the two are different enough to be acceptable. Just like how Watchmen uses characters that are very similar to other DC Characters - Nite Owl = Batman, etc.

Very true saying Bob Kane admitted he was a fan of The Shadow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow heck he even based Batman on The Shadow

flyingfinn · August 2012

n0vastarone wrote: »

Look at the picture...I sawe a batman knockoff. Now..for those that don't.

Boomerang Toss - A new boomerang based energy builder
Ricochet Throw - Throw a boomerang in a precise arc that bounces from foe to foe, dealing heavy damage.
Throwing Blades - Throw a flurry of boomerangs in a cone in front of you, dealing damage to all affected foes.
Grapple Gun Pull - Grab hold of your target with your trusty grappling gun, yanking him towards you.
Gas Pellets - Throw 4 pellets that damage and snare all targets inside their choking clouds.
Bolas - Take careful aim with your bolas and wrap a target in the powerful twine, dealing heavy crushing damage.
Strafing Run - Mark a location on the ground, where a jet will rain a flurry of bullets down, striking all targets.

Not to mention the costume...is blatantly similar to the dark knight rises armor.

Now I really see batman. Wonder if this will catch DC's attention.

You do read comicbooks?
Seems that you don't....

So, did you miss the Jedi/Sith clone?
Hulk clone?
Iron Man clone?
And so on...

cybersoldier1981 · August 2012

nepht wrote: »

Very true saying Bob Kane admitted he was a fan of The Shadow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow heck he even based Batman on The Shadow

Actually, he's more like Zorro.

An orphan who is wealthy, is attended by a butler, works out of a cave under his mansion, wears a mask, fights corruption and crime... for funsies, look up what movie Bruce Wayne and his parents were watching the night of Thomas and Martha's murder.

Actually, here's t he thing- cloners gonna clone. The Night Avenger AT has claws, something Batman doesn't. People throw a tantrum about clones.... well, you know what? WHO CARES about seeing a couple of 'BattMen'. Ignore, drive on, enjoy game, report if neccessary.

haleakala · August 2012

Otherwise normal guy with superb training and gadgets. Not exactly Batman only, but certainly the Dark Knight is one such hero.

zenzenarimasen · August 2012

n0vastarone wrote: »

Look at the picture...I sawe a batman knockoff. Now..for those that don't.

Boomerang Toss - A new boomerang based energy builder
Ricochet Throw - Throw a boomerang in a precise arc that bounces from foe to foe, dealing heavy damage.
Throwing Blades - Throw a flurry of boomerangs in a cone in front of you, dealing damage to all affected foes.
Grapple Gun Pull - Grab hold of your target with your trusty grappling gun, yanking him towards you.
Gas Pellets - Throw 4 pellets that damage and snare all targets inside their choking clouds.
Bolas - Take careful aim with your bolas and wrap a target in the powerful twine, dealing heavy crushing damage.
Strafing Run - Mark a location on the ground, where a jet will rain a flurry of bullets down, striking all targets.

Not to mention the costume...is blatantly similar to the dark knight rises armor.

Now I really see batman. Wonder if this will catch DC's attention.

A list of powers and a similar, though noticeably different, costume don't count as a reason to sue. If it did, Marvel and DC would be at odds with each other constantly.

What's more, Marvel's the litigious one, not Marvel. Back in the day, Marvel sued Cryptic. The reason for the law suit was that Marvel's own lawyers logged into City of Heroes and visually re-created some Marvel superheroes with the costume creator.

While that was going on, DC had the opportunity to join the lawsuit against Cryptic and they didn't. When asked why, DC said something to the effect of "The game's presence is increasing comic sales. We don't see a problem with that."

Cryptic ended up winning the law suit against Marvel because the court dismissed Marvel's claims. The reason they dismissed the claims is that the costumes players were making did not constitute commercial use of Marvel's trademarks.

Given that Nighthawk is not being called "Batman"; given that he doesn't have the Batman logo anywhere near himself; given that he wears a hood rather than a bat cowl; given that he actually looks nothing like batman in coloration; and given that the armor is distinctively different, I don't think there's any kind of trademark issues. The character is sufficiently distinct as to not cause confusion.

All creators build on things that came before. As the latin phrase goes "nihil novi sub sole" which is "nothing new under the sun". In this context, it refers to the fact that all creative works are derived from somewhere and there is no such thing as a truly original character or original story.

That said... don't get your batpanties all up in a twist because who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows.

lotar295 · August 2012

So,your pointing out that the Night avenger AT has batman-like powers,but that actually isn't grounds for DC to sue,they don't have batarangs,just boomerangs,and claws,gas pellets and such,which for one thing,the AT uses more CLAWS than boomerangs,and Bats doesn't use claws.I also find it weird that you point this out,when we've had PA ATs running around dressed up like a certain Red and Yellow Powered Armor we all know

nepht · August 2012

cybersoldier1981 wrote: »

Actually, he's more like Zorro.

An orphan who is wealthy, is attended by a butler, works out of a cave under his mansion, wears a mask, fights corruption and crime... for funsies, look up what movie Bruce Wayne and his parents were watching the night of Thomas and Martha's murder.

Actually, here's t he thing- cloners gonna clone. The Night Avenger AT has claws, something Batman doesn't. People throw a tantrum about clones.... well, you know what? WHO CARES about seeing a couple of 'BattMen'. Ignore, drive on, enjoy game, report if neccessary.

NERD WARING \o/

Yeah I saw that to but creation wise and OFFICIALLY The Shadow inspired Batman.

From dah wiki

When Bob Kane and Bill Finger first conceived of the "Bat-Man", Finger suggested they pattern the character after pulp mystery men such as the Shadow. Finger then used "Partners of Peril"?a Shadow pulp written by Theodore Tinsley?as the basis for Batman's debut story, "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate." Finger later publicly acknowledged that "my first Batman script was a take-off on a Shadow story" and that "Batman was originally written in the style of the pulps." This influence was further evident with Batman showing little remorse over killing or maiming criminals and was not above using firearms. Decades later, noted comic book writer Dennis O'Neil would have the two Dark Knights meet up in Batman #253 (November 1973) and Batman #259 (December 1974) to solve crimes. In the former, Batman acknowledged that The Shadow was his biggest influence .

lokikin · August 2012

bioshrike wrote: »

But isn't Batman himself draw elements from various pulp and other characters from the 20's and 30's?

Regardless, this is a case where the two are different enough to be acceptable. Just like how Watchmen uses characters that are very similar to other DC Characters - Nite Owl = Batman, etc.

Actually Watchmen was originally written with a bunch of the old Charlton Comics characters in mind. DC had acquired the licences and Alan Moore's original Watchmen draft was written for them. But DC had other plans for the characters and made Moore change them...

Nite Owl = Blue Beetle
Comedian = Peacemaker
Dr. Manhattan = Captain Atom
Rorschach = The Question
Etc...

That's not to say the original Charlton characters weren't rip-offs themselves...

zenzenarimasen · August 2012

lokikin wrote: »

Rorschach = The Question

Apparently the Watchmen graphic novel is present in the DC universe just as it is in ours. The Question got hold of it and became fascinated with Rorschach, eventually emulating him. It did not turn out well for him, as he ended up with far more trouble than he could handle. So he declared Rorschach to be an idiot...

Just thought I'd share.

Also, the OP clearly has hisbat panties in a twist when he should be asking why DC never got sued for ripping off The Shadow with their Batman comics.

theapygoos · August 2012

and i return with more "dark kngiht" archetype fanboyism/rant

if anything, Cryptics vision of Nighthawk looks more like Moon Knight than Batman and *gasp* they have almsot teh same abilities/gadgets!. or if ya really really watned to stretch, some kind of fan fic char thats a cross between Nightwing and Red Robin.

Nighthawk -> original to the Champions universe/iconic NPC, nuff said

canadascott · August 2012

If the powers and gadgets of a character could be protected by IP laws, there wouldn't be many characters in comics, let alone in other superhero media.

nepht · August 2012

Always thought MacGyver was like the bum version of Batman .

lotar295 · August 2012

theapygoos wrote: »

and i return with more "dark kngiht" archetype fanboyism/rant

if anything, Cryptics vision of Nighthawk looks more like Moon Knight than Batman and *gasp* they have almsot teh same abilities/gadgets!. or if ya really really watned to stretch, some kind of fan fic char thats a cross between Nightwing and Red Robin.

Nighthawk -> original to the Champions universe/iconic NPC, nuff said

I agree,Nighthawk looks more like moon-Knight from Marvel,I mean the Hood on them is almost the same!

n0vastarone · August 2012

people are so angry

emeraldcrosshair · August 2012

nepht wrote: »

Always thought MacGyver was like the bum version of Batman .

Now i have images of Richard dean Anderson in a batman costume.....

zenzenarimasen · August 2012

emeraldcrosshair wrote: »

Now i have images of Richard dean Anderson in a batman costume.....

Why not? He's already aligned with an organization which is identified by the FBI as as an international eco-terrorist/vigilante organization. I figure it isn't much of a walk from Batman to Ecoterrorist.

Btw, the leader of the organization in question, which RDA is affiliated with, is in Germany right now, undergoing a multi-count murder trial.

jonsills · August 2012

Just wanted to correct a bit of misinformation there, Zen.

In Marvel v. Cryptic, the suit was dropped, not dismissed, when Marvel's lawyers realized that the only evidence they had to present involved characters created by Marvel employees - which would have resulted in Marvel weakening their own trademarks. It was possible, had they gone to trial, that the court might have ruled Marvel to have abandoned trademark on all the characters involved, which would have been a financial disaster.

Too many players here think Cryptic "won", and that it's therefore okay to clone. However, trademark law required the holder to defend his trademark "vigorously" - and recall that these days Marvel's "vigorous defense" would be carried out by the justly-feared Disney legal department.

In the case of Nighthawk, while a case might be made that he is visually similar to Moon Knight, that case is weakened by the fact that Marvel never defended the trademark after the character first appeared in the Champions IP. Thus, that particular character doesn't raise lawsuit fears (although it's still a violation of the ToS to copy a Champions IP character). It's still off-limits to clone characters, however, and when Cryptic finds out about your clone they will give you the generic treatment faster than you can say, "Iron Mannn".

(On the third hand, there's always "fair use" and parody laws to hide behind, so long as some facet of your character is original and by preference a mockery. Thus the Clowns Not Clones campaign, which encourages people to make clown versions of popular superheroes...)

sockmunkey · August 2012

Somewhere, some place, in the dim dark corners of comic lore. There simply HAS to be a character named "Rip-Off"

I suddenly wanna make a copy of him....or her :biggrin:

crosschan · August 2012

I agree with you Jon, but there are 2 things I must mention.

1. I do not think your definition of "faster" and mine are even remotely in the same league if you think that's how things work in CO. Sorry, I just can't agree with that particular word use.

2. I saw 3 "Iron Mann"(that spelling, only 2 n's) in the powerhouse last night in under an hour. 2 of them were knockoffs, the 3rd was a very neat looking steampunk cyborg man looking thing who I can only guess just really wanted the name because he looked all Iron-like. I would have asked but his bio was in what I'm assuming was French.

Ok, carry on. :biggrin:

ariesmajor · August 2012

Yeah because batman totally doesn't have influences from "The Night Wind" "Phantom" or any other famous super heroes created prior to 1930, the night wind was from 1913, and is as much a batman nighthawk character as any.

jonsills · August 2012

The steampunk one comes under the heading of "homage", so it's cool.

And I stand by the speed comment, with the caveat that I did indeed say "when they find out"...

jonsills · August 2012

sockmunkey wrote: »

Somewhere, some place, in the dim dark corners of comic lore. There simply HAS to be a character named "Rip-Off"

I suddenly wanna make a copy of him....or her :biggrin:

Ironically, you may have come up with a truly original idea there. My searches thus far have failed to turn up a character named "Rip-Off", or "Ripoff". Well done! :biggrin:

Edit: http://www.comicvine.com/characters/ is a pretty comprehensive list of every comics character everywhere, from Batman to Rain the Healer; not a Ripoff in the list. Go to it!

battybattybats · August 2012

Batman isn't the first person to throw a boomerang and not even the first to throw one that looks like a bat, the Aboriginal Australians did that for tens of thousands of years. You cannot own an IP over another persons cultural heritage so while the name 'batarang' can be IP a boomerang and yes even a bat-decorated one just plain cannot be because of thousands of years of use by Australian Indigenous peoples and their cultural rights are protected by international law!

Spring-heeled Jack who may or may not have been a real person. The penny-dreadful villain-turned-hero was based on witness reports covered by the newspapers! And he wore a cloak and a demonic mask and used gadgets and attacked people. He predates even the pulp era by a pretty long way as the first reported sighting was 1837!!!

Here's a picture from 1890 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Jack6.jpg

and some more http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Jack4.jpg

and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Jack2.jpg

lokikin · August 2012

The first superhero I remember seeing using a boomerang was the original Gleason (not Marvel) Daredevil, published back in the '40s...

No, I'm not that old, just a fan of older comics...

rstzed · August 2012

According to Richard F. Burton, in The Book of the Sword, aerodynamic throwing sticks (boomerang like weapons) were universal with examples from every part of the globe at sometime in the past. The designs varied greatly, a boomerang with one short heavy arm and one long thin arm used by Norse people my have given rise to the legendary Mjolnir.

So using a "boomerang" is defiantly public domain.

The Book of the Sword is available for free online reading. But be aware, Burton was fond of using non English quotes that he did not bother to translate.

canadascott · August 2012

lokikin wrote: »

The first superhero I remember seeing using a boomerang was the original Gleason (not Marvel) Daredevil, published back in the '40s...

No, I'm not that old, just a fan of older comics...

And, as an aside to someone noticed earlier in the thread in clone form, the name "Iron Man" was used for a golden age Canadian superhero in 1941, well before Tony Stark's alter ego was conceived.

File that one under, Sun, the, Nothing New Under.

meedacthunist · August 2012

n0vastarone wrote: »

Look at the picture...I sawe a batman knockoff. Now..for those that don't.

Boomerang Toss - A new boomerang based energy builder
Ricochet Throw - Throw a boomerang in a precise arc that bounces from foe to foe, dealing heavy damage.
Throwing Blades - Throw a flurry of boomerangs in a cone in front of you, dealing damage to all affected foes.
Grapple Gun Pull - Grab hold of your target with your trusty grappling gun, yanking him towards you.
Gas Pellets - Throw 4 pellets that damage and snare all targets inside their choking clouds.
Bolas - Take careful aim with your bolas and wrap a target in the powerful twine, dealing heavy crushing damage.
Strafing Run - Mark a location on the ground, where a jet will rain a flurry of bullets down, striking all targets.

Not to mention the costume...is blatantly similar to the dark knight rises armor.

Now I really see batman. Wonder if this will catch DC's attention.

DC has no chances for legal claims because Nighthawk is long established character from PnP Champions lore, creation a bit older than Champions Online itself.

Also, Batman itself is a ripoff from Zorro, and previous powerless dark vigilantes (the latter were quite common in comics in thirties). How ecclectic character Batman is is quite obvious for anyone who read how it was created by Finger and Kane.

Costume is a bit on the "movie edition" side, but it is similar to all movie costumes, not only Batman but also X-Men, Avengers and all the rest - such stylisation is trendy these days.

ktm1 · August 2012

ok, what i'm laughing at is this...
darkwing duck. yes DARKWING DUCK
when theres trouble you- call D.W.....
hand to hand, nifty gadgets, gas pellet gun.... close enough power set to say "bat clone!!!!" right? wrong!

similar abilities does NOT mean clone or grounds for legal action. if it were NO one would be able to create a martial artist.... ANY martial artist. cause its going to be "similar" to a comic book or video game character somewhere.

same thing for power armor. ANY power armor. what? it has jet boots and shoots energy beams? iron man! it shoots machine guns and missiles? war machine! runs really fast with a big cannon on its shoulder? Glitter Boy (from rifts pnp).

you made an archer? i dont care appearance or colors, robin hood, green arrow, hawkeye.

fire powers? dont get me started....

super strong and invulnerable? omg there are SOOOOO many, most common powers and ability in comics.

bottom line is this. if the name is different, and the appearance is not identical there is no copyright infringement and no issues with trademarks. hell, even if you made a SIMILAR character with a SIMILAR name you can hide behind parody and homage laws... as long as nothing is IDENTICAL.

fudgemonsta · August 2012

ktm1 wrote: »

ok, what i'm laughing at is this...
darkwing duck. yes DARKWING DUCK
when theres trouble you- call D.W.....
hand to hand, nifty gadgets, gas pellet gun.... close enough power set to say "bat clone!!!!" right? wrong!

Somebody, please. Somebody with the avian set. Make a Darkwing Duck. It would be the greatest thing ever.

clockwise · August 2012

I think a lot of the "this is just Batman in another skin" people need to reconsider. After all, Nighthawk Begins was a real breakthrough at the box office, and The Dark Nighthawk wasn't any slouch as a follow-up, either. Granted, people are getting killed just for having the courage to go see midnight shows of The Dark Nighthawk Rises, but, hey. Comes with the territory, no?

zenzenarimasen · August 2012

fudgemonsta wrote: »

Somebody, please. Somebody with the avian set. Make a Darkwing Duck. It would be the greatest thing ever.

I've tried, you can't put a wide brimmed fedora on it the bird head... Actually, you can't put a fedora, or even so much as a hat on it... The rest of the costume is possible except the duck feet, would have to substitute scuba fins for duck feet and it looks stupid.

purplepompadour · August 2012

Marvel and their money grubbing ways tends to cry foul far more than DC. Marvel sued the creator of Ghost Rider for being the creator of Ghost Rider for crying out loud.

roughbearmattach · August 2012

Wouldn't Champions Nighthawk be a ripoff of Marvel's Nighthawk, if anything?

Marvel Nighthawk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nighthawk_%28Marvel_Comics%29

He even has the "criminal, vigilante, or hero?" mystique about him.

Still, the characters are just different enough. Besides, comic companies like using expys of each others' characters all the time. DC didn't sue Marvel over Squadron Supreme, for instance.

lotar295 · August 2012

purplepompadour wrote: »

Marvel and their money grubbing ways tends to cry foul far more than DC. Marvel sued the creator of Ghost Rider for being the creator of Ghost Rider for crying out loud.

That makes little sense,isn't ghost rider a marvel character already?

taintedmess · August 2012

purplepompadour wrote: »

Marvel and their money grubbing ways tends to cry foul far more than DC. Marvel sued the creator of Ghost Rider for being the creator of Ghost Rider for crying out loud.

lotar295 wrote: »

That makes little sense,isn't ghost rider a marvel character already?

Yea he is and the whole thing wasn't quite as strait forward as purplepompadour suggests it was.

Gary Friedrich is the man in question he was the writer that did the initial writing for ghost rider and decided to sue marvel claiming that as writer he was the sole creator of the ghost rider and that marvel were infringing on his property. (in other words give me money now please or ill take my ball away)

Marvel understandably disagreed for one he was only the writer there was also atleast one artist involved a guy called Mike Ploog and probably more importantly from the marvel point of view these characters were created for marvel a fact I'm sure artests and writers were aware of at the time.

So any ways it went to court the court ruled in favour of marvel and marvel filed a counter suit suing for 17,000 in damages for selling unlicensed Ghost Rider materials at conventions which is the bit people have fixated on. But in reality its just a stepping stone the whole mess is still on going while most articals are all about the evil marvel steeling the poor OAPs hard erned cash.

Dig a little deeper and it would seem that the counter suit was launched after marvel and
Friedrich lawyers came to a agreement at the request of the judge as a means to bring the initial sue counter sue to a end and then allow Friedrichs to appeal the initial discussion.

It'll all probably end with marvel having fully defended there IP (which they have to do) and Friedrichs getting a slap on the rists and maybe some kind of fine.

now back to the scheduled discussion.

keikomyst · August 2012

Nighthawk actually has more in common with Blue Falcon. Only thing Nighthawk lacks is a robot-dog sidekick!

http://hanna-barbera.wikia.com/wiki/Blue_Falcon

ktm1 · August 2012

you can make a character named batman.... as long as it was not like the dc comic character.
no trademark or copy right infringment because the character has an original theme and the name could be descriptive of the new theme.

hence nighthawk from champs and nighthawk from marvel. 2 totally different concepts and characters.

champs just locks out certain names and word combinations to protect itself in case some idiot (cause they are out there) want to make exact copies. other wise you could create an "iron man" or "bat man" or "superman" as long as there was at least some obvious visual distinction and a slight difference in powers... but again... JUST IN CASE lol

theapygoos · August 2012

as i said in a previous post, Nighthawk all aorund is closest to Moon Knight by marvel, ther are still a great many differences

also, Darkwing Duck

roughbearmattach · August 2012

theapygoos wrote: »

as i said in a previous post, Nighthawk all aorund is closest to Moon Knight by marvel, ther are still a great many differences

also, Darkwing Duck

As I posted previously, I think Nighthawk is all around closest to Nighthawk, by Marvel. Aside from the same name, they have similar plotlines/stories, similar gadgets, and both use claws.

Moon Knight has mystic powers, too.

taintedmess · August 2012

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Moon Knight has mystic powers, too.

Thats now had mystic powers unless he's made up with his god which seems doubtful.

roughbearmattach · August 2012

taintedmess wrote: »

Thats now had mystic powers unless he's made up with his god which seems doubtful.

There's a term for that in the comic business, "depending on the writer."

theapygoos · August 2012

most of the writers have gotten rid of the mystic powers, though his mild insanity remains

cybersoldier1981 · August 2012

Hey, you know what? If it is a ripoff, I'm totally cool with it. It's a cool costume with good pieces that can be used for a lot of different things. If this is a bad thing, and it bothers you- DON'T BUY THE DAMNED THING.

man515drake · August 2012

My view is simple if Nighthawk has been part of the Champions IP for years and DC never went after it as infringement they wouldn't be able to challenge it now nor would Marvel. So Nighthawk is a character in his own right not a rip off.

zenzenarimasen · August 2012

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Wouldn't Champions Nighthawk be a ripoff of Marvel's Nighthawk, if anything?

Marvel Nighthawk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nighthawk_%28Marvel_Comics%29

He even has the "criminal, vigilante, or hero?" mystique about him.

Still, the characters are just different enough. Besides, comic companies like using expys of each others' characters all the time. DC didn't sue Marvel over Squadron Supreme, for instance.

Well, seeing as how characters can't be copyrighted, only trademarked, it falls under trademark law. Under trademark law, as long as there is no way that people can confuse the two, characters it's fine. Here's an image which illustrates my point.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17771862/nighthawk.jpg

taintedmess wrote: »

Marvel understandably disagreed for one he was only the writer there was also atleast one artist involved a guy called Mike Ploog and probably more importantly from the marvel point of view these characters were created for marvel a fact I'm sure artests and writers were aware of at the time.

Very true, infact, here's a URL explaining exactly what you said. http://copyright.uslegal.com/copyright-ownership/commissioned-works/

benevon · August 2012

Hasnt just about everything in todays media been done before? There is a big difference between inspired by and complete ripoff. Comic book heroes have been around for awhile and everyone draws inspiration from things they have grown up with.

zenzenarimasen · August 2012

benevon wrote: »

Hasnt just about everything in todays media been done before? There is a big difference between inspired by and complete ripoff. Comic book heroes have been around for awhile and everyone draws inspiration from things they have grown up with.

Yes. I'm not normally one to quote the Bible, as I'm not even the slightest bit religious, but it has a quote that's very applicable and I use it a lot in regards to "x is a rip off of y".

In the original Latin, the line is rendered "nihil novi sub sole." It literally means, word for word: nihil from the latin for nothing, novi from the latin for new, sub from the latin for under, and sole from the latin for sun. In otherwords "nothing new under the sun." All works build upon previous works and there are no purely original works.

Here's a relevant video about the idea of intellectual property protection. The video is motly about copyright, but the concepts and explanations are applicable for trademarks as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk862BbjWx4

Nighthawk..ripoff....

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