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The CC community has become toxic
deepfriedspam
Posts: 9 Arc User
Blatant favoritism and cronyism continues to go on, rigged contests, etc. And if you say anything to anyone even just in /zone, you get threats of blacklisting, etc. Why bother even trying to enter CC's anymore or try to put togther a creative outfit when people win categories for inexplicable reasons. Like a guy wearing a top hat, pants with suspenders, and a robotic arm, wins a tech category. CC's used to reward creativity. Now they reward their friends and god forbid you point out the inconsistencies.
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As to the OP? Don't like the way costume contests are being run ... run your own.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
How does one quantify "fair judging" without somehow including their own bias in the defenition?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I thought the exact same thing. I think this means I spend far to much time on this forum.
Just out of interest who here would agree that steampunk costumes fall under technology?
A word of note I wasn't involved in the judging of this CC so don't affiliate me with them, these views are my own regardless of whether or not they want to just leave it be.
Brick_McDuggins in game.
TL;DR CC's need to be more upfront for what they are looking for in a category. If they are partial to a subgenre, please let us know so we can adjust accordingly.
The main reason i go is to see what neat things the CO community can do with the costume possibilities, some of them are simply mind blowing. Many are comedic level bad.
Either way I have fun.
I never come to win, I put forth a good costume, but I understand that tastes vary, friendships can get involved and pride is on the line for others.
I don't care.
Last time I won a CC was when my friends and I showed up as a team of little cat girls in giant mecha. We all matched pretty well, we had a theme going and we were colorful and cute.
We got some coin and all that, but we were just amused by how much people liked the cat-mechs we made.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
How exactly do you intend to set these standards, and get folks to agree to them, much less enforce them. On player sponsored, player run, and player paid for events?
Generally speaking such rules mongering only tends to ensure such events simply go away. Rather then be regulated.
You know why they get upset that someone is critisizing their methods? I'll spell it out for you.
You didn't put forth the effort to run the costume contest.
You didn't put up any of the prizes for the costume contest.
All you did was show up and stand in a square with a dumb look on your face.
So... what exactly did you do that entitles you to have anyone care about your opinion of their judging?
If they want to pick their best friend who's bare *** naked as the winner of the power armor catagory, and the people who provided the prizes are okay with that decision, then guess what... all the people who's opinions matter have spoken.
If you want to cry about it, go ahead, but it's not going to get anyone on your side except all the other people who are bitter that they didn't win the "LOOK AT ME" contest. And it sure doesn't give you any credibility as the "judge of judges"... if anything, it does the exact opposite by marking you as a sore loser.
Admit it, you're not upset because you suspect the judges in the costume lacked ethics, you're upset because you lost and there was never anything you could do to prevent it. If you can't handle that, stay the hell away from costume contests; CCs aren't about winning.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The thing is... nobody ever claims otherwise. Nobody ever claimed to be impartial, and if they did they're a liar and everyone else knows it. It's impossible. You can't even draw up standards if you wanted to because you won't find standards as to what "Tech" encompasses. You could poll people to find out, but guess what? All you're doing then is going with the bias that has the most adherents.
That's why the big SGs that host them rotate judges. That's why there are some contests I don't go to. The things those judges like don't mesh with the stuff I like to make, but that's okay. They're not wrong, I'm not wrong. We're just different.
In the end, a judge listing their preferences is a waste of time, because if a costume is good they'll choose it regardless of what subgenre it might fall into. Nobody goes in to judging a Tech category thinking "I will ONLY choose Steampunk."
But to address the main point here, you were told to shut up because you were being a whiny child about it, not because you had complaints. If you have an issue, that's what private messages are for. Spamming Zone and especially the Contests channel are not the way to go about it.
That's a hypothetical, of course. Your specific issue was dumb and petty and wouldn't be worth their time to address.
I never spammed anything, especially the Contests channel, nice strawman. And, this is what klls CO for me in general. People even admit theres constant bias and partiality. And their response, throw up strawman accusations. Nice job. Toxic community is toxic.
Nice strawman yourself.
You're going to love the synergy here: Our opinions of what constitutes spam are different. Pressing a dumb issue in multiple channels, I call spam. You might not, but that's okay. We're different.
Also that comment wasn't directly solely at you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
This response makes me giggle!
Keep it going, just proves my point.
How is a dude with a robotic arm not tech?
Again my point is made, now comes total misrepresentation of what was said. The toxicity is the very responses like this. No one wants to actually discuss, just mock, insult, and revile the person rocking the boat.
Ok, imagine a muscular guy, no shirt, wearing black pants, suspenders, top hat, a beard, then throw a steampunk robotic arm on with a steampunk robotic back piece. Simplistic color scheme all around. Sure its... sort of tech... but by that reasoning, someone makes a human body in swimtrunks... and throws a monstrous head on it, should win a monster catagory eh?
And really, i wouldn't have had such an issue with it, if one of the judges hadn't zone'ed a comment about his/her reasoning being they really like steampunk, and thats why they picked the only guy remotely steampunk.
Basically, thats my core issue, I don't have to win, or want to win, but I at least would like to be able to lie to myself that I stand an equal chance at winning as the next guy.
Edit: as a bit of irony, a totally tech'ed out costume won beast in the same CC, go figure.
Actually it is the sheer audacity of the person who thinks they should have a sway over how others choose to participate in the game. If you decide to write up a three page set of CC rules and adhere to them in your judging of CC's I have no qualms with it. I do disagree with someone who thinks that if someone uses different criteria or even no criteria for judging that there is something inherently wrong and those hacks should be called out as such.
You do want a set of rules for all CC's to adhere by from what you keep posting the issue is not all CC's are composed of the people who care about your needs for validating their choices. Life is funny people have different views on the same situations and we should accept that our views(even the ones I am posting now) are not accepted by others just because we share our views. I am not offended that others may not agree. However if we are truely discussing an issue others perceptions of the issue cannot be blown off as just more toxicity or even more just whining.
If the rest of the body is consistent and in theme with the head, sure.
For example, someone out there has a character that looks like a headcrab type creature consuming a human. If the headcrab creature is made to look aquatic, that costume works. Much like someone whose costume is a Steampunk Cyborg might be wearing suspenders, a top hat and a mustache like a Victorian era man.
That's not what she said. She said she liked her pick because he was very Steampunk.
The meaning is not the same.
One, I don't want to "hold sway" over others.
Two, different opinions isn't toxic. Belittling someone, making up strawmen to make them "the bad guy," is toxic.
The CC community has changed in 3 years, and not for the better, sadly.
You opened the topic accusing a bunch of people who hold community events where they give away money for free, that a lot of people find fun, of nepotism. Not just the host and 3 judges from the specific contest, but just everyone. All because you lost a costume contest where you misinterpreted something a judge said.
That's an insult. You opened the topic insulting several dozen people for a stupid, petty, childish reason.
You've been the bad guy the whole time, Grover. You're the monster at the end of the book.
I don't want to know a judge's personal taste. Not because I don't care, but because it's not important to me to know for the sole purpose of winning costume contests. I make costumes that I think are cool. I am not a member of any of the groups that throw costume contests. So, even if I did know a judge's taste, I wouldn't know if that judge is even going to be judging during that contest.
I know a lot of the people in the costume contest community, but that is more because I am a social person. I talk to all kinds of people, about all kinds of things. I talk to people involved in the costume contest community, because it is a subject I am very into in this game. I like cool costumes. I meet a lot of neat folks because of my costumes, or theirs.
Do I think I ever won because of favoritism? No, I don't. If I did, I would decline to accept the choice. Do I think others have won because of favoritism? No, I don't. Do I see a lot of the same people win? Yes, I do. However, I don't see it like some do. I don't see it that people are just picking their friends. I see it as there being some really talented costume creators out there.
A costume contest is a really fun event. Witty banter, silly stage shows by the hosts, great costumes, and really great ideas are at most of the ones I attend. It's all fun. However, at the end of the day, it is a Costume Contest. That means there is going to be a winner, and a lot more losers.
The overall quality of people's creativity in creating costumes has risen quite dramatically since I started going almost two years ago. Just like any other competitive situations, there are going to be some that are successful at it. They will win again and again. Does <insert actor/director here> win awards, or critics reviews, repeatedly because they are in good with the judges/critics? Does the <insert athlete name here> get the gold in the Olympic event because they are the judges favorites? No, these people win because they are good at what they do, and the judges decided to choose them. So, realize that there are people out there that will win over and over again. That is the nature of competition. There is a favorite to win. There is no difference here. It does not mean that the other actors/athletes suck, it means there was someone better in the judges eyes.
You have every right to complain. No one puts the time into the game for you, you can use it however you see fit. Just know that others get that same right. They can use their game time how they see fit.
There is no poison here. It is just the world of art. Some people like everything Picasso did. Some people think his stuff is horrendous. It's the nature of the beast. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", and all that. Taste is subjective.
Sorry you have not won. Keep trying. Keep at it. Make changes, or don't. You never know what the judges will pick. Sometimes the way the butterfly flapped it's wings in the Amazon might make the judges all decide that whatever costume you picked to enter is the costume that will win that category.
Agree. Forbid that anyone should criticize how someone spends their time and resources to entertain others.
If youre charged a fee to enter the contest or something like that then you might have justification for criticizing how its run. Otherwise no.
Only thing toxic here is people feeling theyre entitled to criticize how others enjoy the game.
On a more serious note. The old saying goes "If you want something right, you gotta do it yourself" can be applied here.
Run a CC yourself, make your choices, and I garuntee you will absolutely get criticized on every decision you have made for the winners.
Unfortunately for you, your voice in this matter will not spark some kind of revolution or extreme change in how this community does things, or how the SGs that normally run their CCs change any part of their normal programming. I sound like a bit of a jerk saying it like this, but well you know, I am kinda a jerk. I'm also extremely rude, selfish, and narcissistic. But I recognize a cry of rage when I see one.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
You forgot to add blatant SG recruitment in that list. But not all CC are toxic.
I'd say if you want a genuine and fair CC contest go to an A.R.C one . Those guys know how its done.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Making a toon that wins is not just spending 30 minutes in the tailor. I spend a lot of time in the tailor working on costumes (at a guess about 25% of my game time I am in the tailor). That being said, I loose far more often than I win. The only advice I can give is make toons that you like. I have never won with a toon when I tried to anticipate the judges tastes.
(My in game handle i @wert789)
(My online handle is @wert789)
I miss the edit function.
Steampunk Lincoln is cool.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
If anyone thinks that people that go out of their way to organise events for the community, putting in time, effort and resources to do so, to only pick their friends for lolz, they're sadly mistaken.
The vast majority of people organising CCs do it for the love of costuming, to give something back to the community they're part of.
If anything is toxic, it is people taking all of this effort for granted and being sore losers. That's toxic by any definition.
Pretty.Pixie
something that is obviously wrong is seen as good while something obviously good is cursed out like the plague.....
Are you suggesting that the contests held by SPEAR, ARC, Red Academy, etc. are rigged?
What is obviously wrong again?
You say this like other people are the ones ruining it... but it's you, and people like you, who want to start arguments like this thread, just because you didn't win.
You can deny it all you like.. but if we scroll back to the first post, OH, there you are calling the community toxic because you didn't like one judges decision.
Shall I post the link of the crying baby again, or would you like to post a video of yourself?
While I agree that you are a rude, selfish, narcissistic, badly dressed, color blind, not-even-worth-my-ignore-list, jerk.... you're not really doing any of that in your post... you're just doing what most of the people in this thread are doing... trying to explain maturity and reason to a crying infant.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Hi, welcome to the CO forums. Enjoy your stay.
The OP has a point, and people don't want to admit it. While some bias is going to be absolutely necessary to find a winner in the first place, the level of such in some costume contests is absolutely disgusting.
I've watched judges pick costumes that didn't have half the detail, synergy, elegance or any other obvious quality when compared to some of the other contestants in the crowd. I watched winners be chosen that had costumes that were downright ugly. I've attended regular costume contests where everyone who was chosen for every category was either grimdark or darkgrim. There's a certain point, where things cross over from sore loser to having a valid gripe about legitimate bull****: I. E. People who don't have at least moderately varied tastes shouldn't be holding general costume contests.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
No, he doesn't. If I raised a bunch of resources and hold a costume contest, I'll give the prizes to whoever I damn well please. It's my money, and no one has any right to tell me what to do with it. How would you feel if I sent you a tell every time you spend your resources, recognitions, and Z points, critisizing you about how you made the wrong decision and you're a bad person because of it?
The only topsy turvy part of this thread is that the OP thinks he's entitled to win because he's a sore loser. He thinks he's entitled to win because he's a sore loser. Entitled to win because he's a sore loser.
If you can't handle judges judging in a way that you don't agree with, then you have a serious ego/self esteem problem, and a serious lack of the kind of spirit that is keeping the CC community afloat.
If you think Costume Contests are about getting your hands on that prize money, then you're the problem, gtfo.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
If you are convinced CCs are rigged, as the quoted text implies, aren't you wasting your own time by attending?
Pretty.Pixie
This does not make them "toxic", it makes us different.
The CO community is toxic? All the venom and poison seems to be oozing from you. In the future think before clicking on "Submit Post".
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
You know, this conspiracy theory (it might be true, I wouldn't know, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a conspiracy theory) has a big red flag in it for me.
If they're going to be rewarding their friends, why even go through the hullabaloo of a CC? Why not just give them the stuff directly. That's what I do. It saves both my time and my friends' time.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
To the OP:
Do you get punched a lot? You just seem like the kind of guy who gets punched a lot.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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You've just illustrated my point about "Costume Contests are not about winning."
What you have just stated is that if you don't win, then the costume contest was a waste of time. Well, see ya, cause I'm going to point out to you why you never have to waste your time in a costume contest ever again.
You know all that time you just spent standing in a pretty glowing square wishing and hoping and wanting to win? You could have been outside the powerhouse doing things to make more resources than you would have gotten if you had won.
If you don't enjoy being at costume contests just for the sake of being there... then it's not for you. How do you know if costume contests are for you? Simple, if you answer yes to the following question, then you are a true costume contest enthusiast.
The Question: Would you attend a costume contest where no prizes were offered?
Exactly. Just... exactly. These conspiracy theorists seem to be under the impression that passing resources to your friends requires holding a costume contest. This is the sort of thing that happens when emotion beats reason... and it's really sad how emotional these people get about costume contests, when you consider that they're likely not even real costume contest enthusiasts at all.
I could go on an on about this... but I'm just going to sum it up with this.
*claps and hands you a beer*
You earned that old man.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
For one, I'm sorry you felt cheated after this CC. I know the feeling well because in addition to hosting a lot, I participate a lot. I encourage ANYONE who feels cheated after one of my contests to come up to me privately after the CC and politely question my choice. Not only does that keep me on my toes, but it allows me to give you personal feedback about what I liked and didn't like about your outfit, in addition to comparing them to the winner. I'm not saying the winner is better than you, or smarter than you. I'm saying in this instance, this outfit was the one I believed fit the category better.
Most people who whine about them not winning or someone else who has typically are full of it. I'd say 4/5. Some of them even do it because, apparently, it's the "in" thing to do in zone. I send this invite out to everyone who thinks my personal CCs or S.P.E.A.R.'s are rigged. Come judge with me, I'll discuss the costumes with you and if you can prove me wrong or convince me otherwise you can have a direct effect on CCs that way. I've had approx. 40 or so individuals and groups try this after whining in zone chat. Maybe 5 or so manned up and took me on. All of which agreed that I picked the correct outfits. Any of you think you you're always right? Come test you costume might against me.
And yes, because all of us are different (the core of CCs), judge's opinions are going to vary. Because judge's opinions vary, there is going to be a degree of bias in CCs. I believe I've outlined the best way to get rid of bias as stated in my guide (in sig)--which is the closest thing anyone has physically done for this reason (and yes i'll be fixing it up so it reads normally soon). For example the more judges you have judging a single category and picking majority, the larger reduction of bias you have.
Now I'm not going to go over semantics here because there's no damn point. Attempting to solve individual dilemmas always produces more problems than they solve. It comes down to this: If you're going to CCs to win, you're going for the wrong reason. It's as simple as that. I go to CCs to have fun with friends and check out people's use of the costumes. If you go to win and don't, you're disappointed. If you go to have fun and don't win, you had fun. Winning is just a bonus.
Flare's guide to hosting and judging costume contests!
(link under construction)
You are getting prize and purse confused. The prize of a CC is recognition from your peers that your costume is the best in the room. Usually there is a purse associated with the top prizes.
So, if you offer a CC, but always had the intention of giving the prize and purse to your friend, then you have wasted everyone's time and deserve all the ridicule you get imo.
You thinking CC's are about resources is you, please do not project your stuff onto me. CC's are first and foremost about the recognition.