It's already been updated into the collection thread, which is stickied.
I think I take only 1 point of Enlightened. But I max out Expertise, which gives a bigger bonus to your super stats.
I definitely don't spend much time using my energy builder though. Concentration is a big bonus with Mini Gun and Micro Munitions. I don't need an EB for most solo content, and even against epic bosses its not needed much. Maybe my gear makes a difference, since its all purple at this point. Cycling active offenses helps too.
Ok, it seems I was bored enough to actually check tooltips this time. I'll post some numbers for INT/END/REC and INT/EGO/END. Numbers are with 3 Quarry stacks and 8 Concentration stacks and specialization is nearly the same as the one posted for Gyrojet except that Enlightened is 3/3 and Preparation is 0/2. They were taken after offensive/defensive bonuses have finished playing off each other. Brackets are SS bonuses, parenthesis is EGO's ranged damage bonus. Any stat not mentioned such as crit chance and severity is the same for both.
First up, INT/EGO/END
----
INT - base 358 [38%] , quarry stacked 448 [41%]
EGO - base 185 [16%](29%) , quarry stacked 275 [20%](36%)
END - 185 [16%]
REC - 28
Tactical Missiles - 895-3513
Minigun - 313
Micromunitions - 1023
The damage per hit loss is so small (approx 1.5%) that the energy efficiency of INT/END/REC should pull ahead the moment you have to maintain attacks more than once just because of the increased ratio of main attacks time against EB time. Even with expensive travel powers on, 1-2 EB hits always provides enough energy to start a full maintain of 3 attacks. You have enough Equilibrium (I had 164) to actually open and fully maintain all 3 attacks without using your energy builder. And as I said in a previous post, Overdrive jumps from 10 to 16 per tick, 30 suddenly becoming 48 every three seconds is a really big difference.
I know I'm way into diminishing returns here. It's probably better to throw some points into DEX but I'm too poor/lazy to test it out further. I also forgot that Pulsewave has switched to 2/2 Expertise from what I assume used to be 2/2 Tinkering so that would probably throw some more damage per hit into INT/EGO/END's favor at the cost of some lost defense.
Anyway, I'm just playing around with numbers cause as I said, bored.
After trying multiple variations with stats (including trying out primary rec), I've ended up with 2 versions of Pulsewave's Gyrojet (on 2 separate toons, using up earned respecs and about 1500 g, because I tested in play for a couple days at a time instead of in the powerhouse).
I understand his desire to have ss ego, but with the diminishing returns of additive damage, the effect is smaller than it may seem looking at just raw % values.
So variant 1 is the more similar to what he's got--it's almost the same, except it uses rec instead of end (I too find the 16-17 per tick of overdrive to be more of a factor than the larger peak pool of endurance), and uses constitution so soloing lairs is easier. As quarry lets you get up to LR-ish defense, having con in there moves it to mid-quality toughness for a tank and still have very high damage. This is easier and more forgiving to play than base Gyrojet.
Variant 2 is squishier. It also uses rec instead of end, and in addition, dex instead of ego. Having ss dex moves the needle on the critical rate up to 41% for me with equipment. Then I used avenger and vindicator, with avenger mastery. Without the cyclic boost, its defense is much lower than having guardian and vindicator, but my I DO LOVE avenger mastery (I would have never tried it without looking at Pulsewave XII). With that higher crit rate, I sometimes see a 5 stack of avenger mastery--instantaneous and nearly free tac. missiles. It's a lot streakier than Gyrojet, but the average damage seems faster in play--I clear through the same mobs at the same difficulty in unity missions significantly faster even without the avenger mastery factor, and anything less than legendary dies extremely quickly with all 3 slots firing. I've killed elite SL snake boss before my first barrage of minigun and micromissile maintains were done. Occasionally, I'll manage to fire off what feels like 3 full charge tac. missiles in like a little over 1.5 seconds or something.
Thanks again Pulsewave. I've found that Gyrojet is less affected by streaks, and it's more balanced than my two versions, but I like to have one that's more relaxing and one that can blaze through things faster.
Interesting. You're not having energy problems at all as INT/DEX/REC and Avenger? I was a lot less geared when I tried that back then and I can't maintain full duration on Mini Gun and Micro Munitions once I started using using Tactical Missiles. I'm currently running INT/END/REC with Avenger/Vindicator. I have 30.9% (36.9% if you count the 6% extra to AoE's in Vindicator) which seems to be enough, not the crazy 5 stacks you get though. The DPS increase feels ridiculous, dummies don't even last for a full maintain. That's a nearly guaranteed 33k in approximately 5 seconds. I'll be testing it out some more this next few days but I think I'll be sticking with it just for the e-peen factor.
I'm feeling a bit uneasy with the loss in defense though. My base def dropped from 49% to 32%. And there's also the loss of Locus procs.
EDIT: 8 minutes solo on Mega D. A 3 minute improvement from Guardian/Vindicator. It's amazing how much more damage it puts out but I don't know if I was just unlucky with dodge but it definitely felt squishier. I had to rediscover the block button. But even with actually taking the time to block, I was still able to solo it a lot faster than I used to.
That 5 stack is a rare event (I probably shouldn't have mentioned it as it's an outlier, but it's just so cool when it happens) =P It's diminishing frequency to get the 5. I'm sure you've noticed there's a distribution--going up to 41% critical (+6 more from vindicator) just raises the curve that little bit so you sometimes see the extreme tail.
I can't fire tac. missiles and the 2 maintains continuously with int/dex/rec (unless an active is on). What usually ends up happening is that I'll start off with both maintains, wait for the first proc of avenger, and shoot the tac. missiles at least once on the first go, sometimes twice. When energy starts to run low, I can build energy back while using the 2 maintains and just tapping tac. missiles occasionally until there's enough energy for full charge ones. Any time I get 3+ stacks of avenger, that can almost always be fired off without putting my energy under. And yeah, an active offense makes a big difference. I'm not sure which one helps the most... I probably should switch out ego surge with nimble mind for lock and load because I don't have the con.
It's likely int/end/rec gives more consistent damage than with dex just from having more energy to throw. I do suffer some streaks of only single avenger stacks proccing, which is still nice, but energy management does suffer. It's balanced out by the occasional streak where it feels like I'm shooting full tac. missiles super fast. Oh, if teamed up and someone has aopm, it feels like I can do full burn a lot, which makes sense, aside from higher stats for energy, there's even more crits so more avenger discounting the blast.
It is indeed squishier without the +feedback from guardian and vindicator. I waste a slot on rebirth for convenience--I only die in Gravitar alerts and in lairs (Mandragalore is, err, exciting, solo), but it just annoys me to lose those stars. If I was really optimal, I'd squeeze in more active offenses so that they're up a lot. Still, even without a really good cycle of actives, it feels like this burns things down very fast. Opening up with sonic device and most content dies before the stun is out; elite SL mages die moments after the stun is over.
[Edit: Oh, and for the con variant... since I really made it as a compromise for more toughness, I also went quarry r2 and fair game. With decent con, I'm getting 1200-1300 pt heals off of fair game. Against bosses, masterful dodge and resurgence shore it up enough. @Promythean, my guess is that fair game is only worth it if you superstat con.]
Gravitar can kill me even in Guardian/Vindicator, so there probably won't be much difference. I probably should grab Rebirth but for the moment I just stuck with Conviction, the temporary extra health combined with dodge has probably helped me survived the Cascade spam. Triumphant Recoveries are pretty cheap in the AH anyway.
I should probably rely on the recovery items too, and get over my single player rpg-ism of refusing to use consumable items...
Incidentally, during the new Hi Pan alert, with AOPM team mates, I got over 5 stacks of avenger (!!!). There's not much of a difference at 4+, because my reflexes + latency can't take advantage, but it's still amusing.
Someone suggested a build to me today. Some aspects of it sound interesting. I suspect it's less damage than Gyrojet, though it's surely tougher.
It's to use wrist bolters with the adv. and revitalize, with con as a secondary stat, sentry for twist fate and frequent/permanent implosion engine/actives (like ego surge with nimble mind).
I'm not sure on the damage because wrist bolters is basically almost nothing. And if we swap in chest beam for a high damage charge attack, it doesn't get the full advantage from quarry. Although, chest beam is inherently high damage, and it's got a debuff... You also lose the 100' attack factor, and the AOE will be more finicky overall. However, if ego surge with nimble can be up a lot, then the crit rate could be very high indeed. Oh, one could keep micro munitions and have frequent fire all weapons because of revitalize...
It also intrigues me because it might be possible to make a quarry tank that's ultra tough this way. If wrist bolters with the adv. triggers revitalize, then more important than ego surge with nimble mind being up almost constantly, then masterful dodge can also be up almost constantly, and any time your health dips a lot, you're not many seconds away from resurgence.
Ok, it seems I was bored enough to actually check tooltips this time. I'll post some numbers for INT/END/REC and INT/EGO/END. Numbers are with 3 Quarry stacks and 8 Concentration stacks and specialization is nearly the same as the one posted for Gyrojet except that Enlightened is 3/3 and Preparation is 0/2. They were taken after offensive/defensive bonuses have finished playing off each other. Brackets are SS bonuses, parenthesis is EGO's ranged damage bonus. Any stat not mentioned such as crit chance and severity is the same for both.
First up, INT/EGO/END
----
INT - base 358 [38%] , quarry stacked 448 [41%]
EGO - base 185 [16%](29%) , quarry stacked 275 [20%](36%)
END - 185 [16%]
REC - 28
Tactical Missiles - 895-3513
Minigun - 313
Micromunitions - 1023
The damage per hit loss is so small (approx 1.5%) that the energy efficiency of INT/END/REC should pull ahead the moment you have to maintain attacks more than once just because of the increased ratio of main attacks time against EB time. Even with expensive travel powers on, 1-2 EB hits always provides enough energy to start a full maintain of 3 attacks. You have enough Equilibrium (I had 164) to actually open and fully maintain all 3 attacks without using your energy builder. And as I said in a previous post, Overdrive jumps from 10 to 16 per tick, 30 suddenly becoming 48 every three seconds is a really big difference.
I know I'm way into diminishing returns here. It's probably better to throw some points into DEX but I'm too poor/lazy to test it out further. I also forgot that Pulsewave has switched to 2/2 Expertise from what I assume used to be 2/2 Tinkering so that would probably throw some more damage per hit into INT/EGO/END's favor at the cost of some lost defense.
Anyway, I'm just playing around with numbers cause as I said, bored.
I find myself having to stop and use my EB as well. Not as often as one would think with all 3 attacks blaring and criting. I am torn on what kind of stating makes this build the most effective? I see here that your way into DM for your INT,but your cooldowns must be pretty low as well as the other bonuses that INT gives you to the other powers in this build. What is a good balance? I currently have only 297 to INT, around 200 to EGO and 167 to END. Am I gimping myself anywhere?
My current build has Active Offense powers at 38 second CD and using one puts the other on a 13 second CD. I would say lose EGO as a secondary SS. I understand Pulse's line of thinking regarding EGO since having it as an SS lets you doubledip with the innate ranged damage bonus, and for the longest time I thought that way too but those numbers I posted suggest that the difference in DPH is practically non-existent.
As for how to stat, INT/REC/END is a pretty safe choice and pretty easy to use and I imagine it's the most consistent in performance but whether it's the best, I wouldn't know. I'm going to test INT/REC/DEX with END through talents and ignoring EGO entirely except for the Quarry bonus but not for a few days.
Just so I understand, removing the EGO stat completely. How does it still maintain that level of ranged damage..which looks like its honestly right on par.Also does your crit severity get effected?
With primary int, the audacity stacks by themselves easily exceed the soft cap for ranged damage increase for ego. Keeping ego as a SS gives higher damage for everything, but diminishing returns means that you may get more damage overall by either having dex for higher crits (as criticals are multiplicative and not additive), or with rec and end giving more energy to go full blast more often.
Pretty much. Although looking at it now, I would barely call it burst. High DEX/crit coupled with Avenger Mastery would be where you'll get real burst.
EDIT: Trying to mix some DEX into my stats. Looking pretty promising. I like the 45% crit rate. And I surprisingly haven't run into energy problems yet. Napkin math is looking at only about 5% damage increase but everyone knows it's more fun to see crits. My kingdom for a damage meter.
Is there any chance that you can post your build so far the has the INT/END/REC SS. Also, what would make these type of changes so much easier is a Diablo 3 style stat screen, your dps is right there for you to see.
EDIT: Mini Gun is using Guidance System, Powerhouse hasn't updated to show that it's properly at 1 point now so I use Accelerated Metabolism as a placeholder. Build would also work as a leveling build but I would say that Guardian/Vindicator would serve you better while leveling. Also in hindsight I would have put Evasive Maneuvers as the last power to take so I can easily swap it for Smoke Grenade, Sonic Device or whatever I need.
I wish they'd make a set of melee powers that function like the ranged ones--they'd occupy slots and could be simultaneously fired.
Let's see... plug laser sword (and other laser sword-ish moves) into the hand slot. Have a robot limb/tail/tentacle PBAOE attack (based on the whirling chain type animations, or floating drone-looking things that appear and spin around the character like razor discs), or perhaps a reflect % damage maintain for the chest slot. Have a % resistance debuff maintain or % dodge buff maintain for the shoulder/head slot.
I think this would be very cool, and much more consistent with the existing PA mechanics than the way it is now. I also know this is not going to happen because they've just done the PA pass and there's other powersets (ahem, force) that badly need attention next.
EDIT: Mini Gun is using Guidance System, Powerhouse hasn't updated to show that it's properly at 1 point now so I use Accelerated Metabolism as a placeholder. Build would also work as a leveling build but I would say that Guardian/Vindicator would serve you better while leveling. Also in hindsight I would have put Evasive Maneuvers as the last power to take so I can easily swap it for Smoke Grenade, Sonic Device or whatever I need.
interesting, I'm gonna take this for a spin on my next retcon. I also noticed on your comparison with the ego and rec builds your base stats are 353 and around 185 for both secondaries. For the original gyrojet how did you get your end/ego to be so even? I've been playing around with my gear and cannot strike that balance.
Questionite secondaries. I've shifted my mods a bit since then but for the most part, they're rank 5s and 6s. I would go with rank 7s but it's too expensive especially with how much money I've already used up for regearing and retconning.
I have been a long-time Power Armourite, and always find inspiration (or just a direct guide) from Pulsewave's wealth of testing and well-thought out advice.
At the moment, I am running the Gyrojet build - I had my own version, but Pulsewave's was slightly more energy efficient. I am looking to work into the build Plasma Beam, I love the idea and conceptually it looks amazing (my hero is a cyborg with an entirely robotic left arm, so the fact that Tac missiles and Plasma beam emit from the left works so well visually and conceptually!)
The problem comes from swapping out the only skill that is viable to do; Tactical Missiles, and thereby rendering the build slightly less DPSy as Quarry increases physical damage more than it does energy/particle.
So - do I swap Quarry for Targeting Computer (but then lose out on the avoidance and dodge buff that also works nicely with Resurgent Reiki for Bountiful Chi) and the buff to Ego and Intelligence... just for a conceptual and somewhat targeting bugged skill...
Anyone use Plasma Beam in the hand slot in they're build, alongside the traditional minigun and micro-munitions maitained attacks?
I have been a long-time Power Armourite, and always find inspiration (or just a direct guide) from Pulsewave's wealth of testing and well-thought out advice.
At the moment, I am running the Gyrojet build - I had my own version, but Pulsewave's was slightly more energy efficient. I am looking to work into the build Plasma Beam, I love the idea and conceptually it looks amazing (my hero is a cyborg with an entirely robotic left arm, so the fact that Tac missiles and Plasma beam emit from the left works so well visually and conceptually!)
The problem comes from swapping out the only skill that is viable to do; Tactical Missiles, and thereby rendering the build slightly less DPSy as Quarry increases physical damage more than it does energy/particle.
So - do I swap Quarry for Targeting Computer (but then lose out on the avoidance and dodge buff that also works nicely with Resurgent Reiki for Bountiful Chi) and the buff to Ego and Intelligence... just for a conceptual and somewhat targeting bugged skill...
Anyone use Plasma Beam in the hand slot in they're build, alongside the traditional minigun and micro-munitions maitained attacks?
If you're running Guardian/Vindicator like the posted Pulsewave build, you're already not using Tactical Missiles to its best DPS potential so a bit more loss wouldn't really hurt. Just stick with Quarry, you get less DPS but the survivability is just too good IMO. Also Plasma Beam being a maintain it will help keep Overdrive at 3 stacks better than Tactical Missiles and the gradual instead of burst use of energy tends to be work better with Overdrive anyway.
Thanks for the affirmation - I look forward to tweaking my build (knew I should've taken tac missiles last...)
I will likely make sure my specialisations are geared towards a maintained hand slot attack, maximising the AoE damage potential and energy returns.
Any advice?
I've recently returned from a long hiatus, SO much has changed - for the better. But it's alot to get your head around, then there is needing to change ALL of my gear out (bit of a shame) my old build never ran out of energy with Int/End/Rec - I realise I could go down that path again, but the damage bonus from Ego is to good to pass up. I will gear for Rec as far as I can.
Mainly I am focusing on keeping Int high, then Ego, then Endurance, then stacking offense, crit chance, and avoidance, working in Rec on some gear also.
On a sidenote, what an awesome yet awful power 'Reconstruction Circuits' is.. I really wanted it to be good and it's ok.. but using a slot? AND stopping the maintained attacks? A step to far methinks, it does'nt synergise well, but then it's a trade off, but sadly the trade off is'nt even tempting.
I'd love to see, Plasma Beam get a targeting fix, and some form of adjustment to Res Circuits, other than that - loving the PA review changes.
I've recently returned from a long hiatus, SO much has changed - for the better. But it's alot to get your head around, then there is needing to change ALL of my gear out (bit of a shame) my old build never ran out of energy with Int/End/Rec - I realise I could go down that path again, but the damage bonus from Ego is to good to pass up. I will gear for Rec as far as I can.
Mainly I am focusing on keeping Int high, then Ego, then Endurance, then stacking offense, crit chance, and avoidance, working in Rec on some gear also.
If you look a few pages previous, I did post some number between INT/EGO/END and INT/REC/END. Energy efficiency will always be the way to maximizing power armor DPS.
EDIT: Actually if you're not taking Avenger Mastery, you probably wouldn't need that much END.
Pretty much. Although looking at it now, I would barely call it burst. High DEX/crit coupled with Avenger Mastery would be where you'll get real burst.
EDIT: Trying to mix some DEX into my stats. Looking pretty promising. I like the 45% crit rate. And I surprisingly haven't run into energy problems yet. Napkin math is looking at only about 5% damage increase but everyone knows it's more fun to see crits. My kingdom for a damage meter.
Here - http://sourceforge.net/projects/combatlogparser/ - is a working combat log parser. It doesn't (currently) do anything useful with pets, but it works just fine for everything else. You start it up, locate the combat log file, open it and then proceed to test. It'll parse in real-time.
To turn on your combat log:
/CombatLog 1
To turn off your combat log:
/CombatLog 0
__________
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
Here - http://sourceforge.net/projects/combatlogparser/ - is a working combat log parser. It doesn't (currently) do anything useful with pets, but it works just fine for everything else. You start it up, locate the combat log file, open it and then proceed to test. It'll parse in real-time.
To turn on your combat log:
/CombatLog 1
To turn off your combat log:
/CombatLog 0
I actually had to dig up quite a long way back in the forums to find that. Still worth reposting so it can help people decide their builds. Sucks that unless you have resources to burn, you're not going to be doing much testing as silver. Dummies are just plain terrible for parsing.
1) Does energy equilibrium plays a significant role for PA powerset?
2) If I put Dexterity as the last superstat, will it give me reasonable crit chance?
3) Is Recovery useful as secondary superstat? Since intelligence as primary Superstat helps to provide energy equilibrium from spec tree.
1) Does energy equilibrium plays a significant role for PA powerset?
2) If I put Dexterity as the last superstat, will it give me reasonable crit chance?
3) Is Recovery useful as secondary superstat? Since intelligence as primary Superstat helps to provide energy equilibrium from spec tree.
1. Not really, it's nice to have but long term energy generation is more important for PA than high Equilibrium. Then again high Equilibrium usually means high REC which is the stat that most powers Overdrive, the energy unlock you're most likely to be using.
2. About 42% crit chance along with crit gear. About 46% if you use the INT spec that improves the bonus from Secondary SS.
3. As I said before, if you're using Overdrive, you're going to want REC to make it stronger.
EDIT: I should have said that the crit is with around 180-190 DEX and with crit gear/mods.
#1 give some REC and END, because it you need not take super stat REC/END.
#2 Particle Damage + Fire Damage + Crushing Damage, and Target Computer is a waste passive.
INT primary tree - works awesome with AoPM, and low cooldown, you can rotate MD and resurgence and smoke grenade to survive (you're squish, remember it).
STR primary tree - high defense, high severity, no more.
While they're certainly viable, I haven't seen an AOPM build outperform one with an offensive passive lately, at least in terms of pure DPS in a PvE setting. Not like the old days with Rage of Majesty builds everywhere. Also Targeting Computer is not a waste as long as the attack is a ranged Technology attack. And why Guardian and Warden?
While they're certainly viable, I haven't seen an AOPM build outperform one with an offensive passive lately, at least in terms of pure DPS in a PvE setting. Not like the old days with Rage of Majesty builds everywhere. Also Targeting Computer is not a waste as long as the attack is a ranged Technology attack. And why Guardian and Warden?
Come on, dude.
Try use shoulder launcher + chest beam + concussor beam in same time, you need a huge energy for it.
And warden + guardian over increase offense for more damage.
Try use shoulder launcher + chest beam + concussor beam in same time, you need a huge energy for it.
And warden + guardian over increase offense for more damage.
I commented because you said it's a full PvE DPS build and my testing has so far shown that offensive passives will out perform one running AOPM. EGO as a secondary SS has also shown to be a very small, almost negligible damage per hit increase. High end PA DPS currently seems to favor Guardian/Avenger with Avenger Mastery and building around keeping Avenger mastery proc'd via high crit and making sure you have enough energy to keep spamming charged Tactical Missiles.
Also I question how much actual damage having two sets of Best Defense gives, after all the difference between 275 EGO and 120 EGO turned out to be less than 2%.
1. Not really, it's nice to have but long term energy generation is more important for PA than high Equilibrium. Then again high Equilibrium usually means high REC which is the stat that most powers Overdrive, the energy unlock you're most likely to be using.
2. About 42% crit chance along with crit gear. About 46% if you use the INT spec that improves the bonus from Secondary SS.
3. As I said before, if you're using Overdrive, you're going to want REC to make it stronger.
EDIT: I should have said that the crit is with around 180-190 DEX and with crit gear/mods.
If I want to have power like fire all weapon which requires a lot of energy, can I have this build like :
INT/REC/DEX ? Do I have enough energy to use that power if Recovery is my second superstat instead of endurance?
I would like to have Dexterity to increase my critical chance besides mods.
Is vindicator good for dps as specialization? I notice that there are critical chance in that spec.
1) Does energy equilibrium plays a significant role for PA powerset?
2) If I put Dexterity as the last superstat, will it give me reasonable crit chance?
3) Is Recovery useful as secondary superstat? Since intelligence as primary Superstat helps to provide energy equilibrium from spec tree.
1 and 3) It depends on how you like to play. I like to avoid having to use my Energy Builder, at if if I can help it. You Equilibrium points mostly determined REC helps you have a pool of energy to to crank out an alpha strike first of. With a decent records, you'll need to use your Energy builder to build up a decent amount of energy to keep slot power running.
2). Yes. SSS Dex would get your a very nice increase for your chances of Criting. But at level 40, you can get Silver Champions Gear which has +Crit Chance back into the gear (along with 3 Mod slots).
For my PA character, I took INT as Primary SS with REC and END as secondary SSs. With my gear I have 389 Energy with an Equilibriumof 176, I also invested in the End Cost reduction gear and the same from the Spec Trees. That allows me to do a fulll cycle of my main rotation of Concussors, Mini-gun and Mico-Munitions. And I get back about 3/4 of the way to max Energy with Overdrive
I would say that you want either INT and End as a minimum SSs Both is preferrable. Or pumping one or the other with Gear. Energy Management is THE key to geting the most damage out of a ranged PA build.
If I want to have power like fire all weapon which requires a lot of energy, can I have this build like :
INT/REC/DEX ? Do I have enough energy to use that power if Recovery is my second superstat instead of endurance?
I would like to have Dexterity to increase my critical chance besides mods.
Is vindicator good for dps as specialization? I notice that there are critical chance in that spec.
It's unlikely you can pull off a full maintain without END to increase your max energy. Vindicator is a great spec for making a survivable DPS when combined with Guardian since Best Defense and Aggressive Stance play off each other.
It's unlikely you can pull off a full maintain without END to increase your max energy. Vindicator is a great spec for making a survivable DPS when combined with Guardian since Best Defense and Aggressive Stance play off each other.
Thanks a lot for the info. I will keep endurance as my superstat then.
Anyway, when I choose my talents, should I have some constitution as a PA dps?
If I make use of vindicator spec tree, should I use gears mod with critical strike or mod with highest offense I can get?
Can I have a build which can survive both pve and pvp? I notice that when using PA powers, I always get the message that " target is out of targetting arc" if the target is moving around which makes pretty hard to pvp.
You don't necessarily have to SS END, you can just gear a bit for it. INT as a primary and cost redux gear should bring down the energy cost a lot by level 40. As for CON with talents, go ahead, ultimately that 15 or so you'll get won't really save you that often. Also you should always gear for crit over offense as DPS.
Not going to pretend I know much about PvP, so I can't really help you much there. I know some people do use PA attacks. And well, if you can survive in PvP, you can certainly survive in PvE. How good you'll perform as a DPS in PvE setting using a PvP build is a different matter. Becca did already post a PvP build though a few posts up.
You don't necessarily have to SS END, you can just gear a bit for it. INT as a primary and cost redux gear should bring down the energy cost a lot by level 40. As for CON with talents, go ahead, ultimately that 15 or so you'll get won't really save you that often. Also you should always gear for crit over offense as DPS.
Not going to pretend I know much about PvP, so I can't really help you much there. I know some people do use PA attacks. And well, if you can survive in PvP, you can certainly survive in PvE. How good you'll perform as a DPS in PvE setting using a PvP build is a different matter. Becca did already post a PvP build though a few posts up.
Ok Thanks. I will try to look for his thread then.
It's hard to say what the max critical of any build is, you have to take into account what gear/mods you're aiming for and there's always diminishing returns. It also depends on what your primary SS is and if you take the specializations that increase crit chance. You're also not getting close to 50% chance without a hefty amount of DEX (at least not 50% as seen in your character window).
It's hard to say what the max critical of any build is, you have to take into account what gear/mods you're aiming for and there's always diminishing returns. It also depends on what your primary SS is and if you take the specializations that increase crit chance. You're also not getting close to 50% chance without a hefty amount of DEX (at least not 50% as seen in your character window).
Thanks for the info.
You mentioned about going to test on INT/REC/DEX in one of your previous post. Does it work well? How is it compare to INT/END/REC?
Thanks for the info.
You mentioned about going to test on INT/REC/DEX in one of your previous post. Does it work well? How is it compare to INT/END/REC?
It depends on how energy hungry your build is. I stuck with INT/END/REC for ease of use but the crit from going with DEX was pretty nice.
I am still confused that how does Unbreakable really work.
Does it only absorb damage or it also provide health regeneration?
Why someone mentioned that it works better with Invulnerability as passive?
Is orbital canon a good power to match with PA for pve?
Comments
I think I take only 1 point of Enlightened. But I max out Expertise, which gives a bigger bonus to your super stats.
I definitely don't spend much time using my energy builder though. Concentration is a big bonus with Mini Gun and Micro Munitions. I don't need an EB for most solo content, and even against epic bosses its not needed much. Maybe my gear makes a difference, since its all purple at this point. Cycling active offenses helps too.
First up, INT/EGO/END
----
INT - base 358 [38%] , quarry stacked 448 [41%]
EGO - base 185 [16%](29%) , quarry stacked 275 [20%](36%)
END - 185 [16%]
REC - 28
Tactical Missiles - 895-3513
Minigun - 313
Micromunitions - 1023
Next, INT/END/REC
----
INT - base 358 [38%] , quarry stacked 448 [41%]
EGO - base 30 (8.6%) , quarry stacked 120 (24%)
END - 185 [16%]
REC - 183 [16%]
Tactical Missiles - 882-3459
Minigun - 308
Micromunitions - 1008
The damage per hit loss is so small (approx 1.5%) that the energy efficiency of INT/END/REC should pull ahead the moment you have to maintain attacks more than once just because of the increased ratio of main attacks time against EB time. Even with expensive travel powers on, 1-2 EB hits always provides enough energy to start a full maintain of 3 attacks. You have enough Equilibrium (I had 164) to actually open and fully maintain all 3 attacks without using your energy builder. And as I said in a previous post, Overdrive jumps from 10 to 16 per tick, 30 suddenly becoming 48 every three seconds is a really big difference.
I know I'm way into diminishing returns here. It's probably better to throw some points into DEX but I'm too poor/lazy to test it out further. I also forgot that Pulsewave has switched to 2/2 Expertise from what I assume used to be 2/2 Tinkering so that would probably throw some more damage per hit into INT/EGO/END's favor at the cost of some lost defense.
Anyway, I'm just playing around with numbers cause as I said, bored.
I understand his desire to have ss ego, but with the diminishing returns of additive damage, the effect is smaller than it may seem looking at just raw % values.
So variant 1 is the more similar to what he's got--it's almost the same, except it uses rec instead of end (I too find the 16-17 per tick of overdrive to be more of a factor than the larger peak pool of endurance), and uses constitution so soloing lairs is easier. As quarry lets you get up to LR-ish defense, having con in there moves it to mid-quality toughness for a tank and still have very high damage. This is easier and more forgiving to play than base Gyrojet.
Variant 2 is squishier. It also uses rec instead of end, and in addition, dex instead of ego. Having ss dex moves the needle on the critical rate up to 41% for me with equipment. Then I used avenger and vindicator, with avenger mastery. Without the cyclic boost, its defense is much lower than having guardian and vindicator, but my I DO LOVE avenger mastery (I would have never tried it without looking at Pulsewave XII). With that higher crit rate, I sometimes see a 5 stack of avenger mastery--instantaneous and nearly free tac. missiles. It's a lot streakier than Gyrojet, but the average damage seems faster in play--I clear through the same mobs at the same difficulty in unity missions significantly faster even without the avenger mastery factor, and anything less than legendary dies extremely quickly with all 3 slots firing. I've killed elite SL snake boss before my first barrage of minigun and micromissile maintains were done. Occasionally, I'll manage to fire off what feels like 3 full charge tac. missiles in like a little over 1.5 seconds or something.
Thanks again Pulsewave. I've found that Gyrojet is less affected by streaks, and it's more balanced than my two versions, but I like to have one that's more relaxing and one that can blaze through things faster.
I'm feeling a bit uneasy with the loss in defense though. My base def dropped from 49% to 32%. And there's also the loss of Locus procs.
EDIT: 8 minutes solo on Mega D. A 3 minute improvement from Guardian/Vindicator. It's amazing how much more damage it puts out but I don't know if I was just unlucky with dodge but it definitely felt squishier. I had to rediscover the block button. But even with actually taking the time to block, I was still able to solo it a lot faster than I used to.
I can't fire tac. missiles and the 2 maintains continuously with int/dex/rec (unless an active is on). What usually ends up happening is that I'll start off with both maintains, wait for the first proc of avenger, and shoot the tac. missiles at least once on the first go, sometimes twice. When energy starts to run low, I can build energy back while using the 2 maintains and just tapping tac. missiles occasionally until there's enough energy for full charge ones. Any time I get 3+ stacks of avenger, that can almost always be fired off without putting my energy under. And yeah, an active offense makes a big difference. I'm not sure which one helps the most... I probably should switch out ego surge with nimble mind for lock and load because I don't have the con.
It's likely int/end/rec gives more consistent damage than with dex just from having more energy to throw. I do suffer some streaks of only single avenger stacks proccing, which is still nice, but energy management does suffer. It's balanced out by the occasional streak where it feels like I'm shooting full tac. missiles super fast. Oh, if teamed up and someone has aopm, it feels like I can do full burn a lot, which makes sense, aside from higher stats for energy, there's even more crits so more avenger discounting the blast.
It is indeed squishier without the +feedback from guardian and vindicator. I waste a slot on rebirth for convenience--I only die in Gravitar alerts and in lairs (Mandragalore is, err, exciting, solo), but it just annoys me to lose those stars. If I was really optimal, I'd squeeze in more active offenses so that they're up a lot. Still, even without a really good cycle of actives, it feels like this burns things down very fast. Opening up with sonic device and most content dies before the stun is out; elite SL mages die moments after the stun is over.
[Edit: Oh, and for the con variant... since I really made it as a compromise for more toughness, I also went quarry r2 and fair game. With decent con, I'm getting 1200-1300 pt heals off of fair game. Against bosses, masterful dodge and resurgence shore it up enough. @Promythean, my guess is that fair game is only worth it if you superstat con.]
Incidentally, during the new Hi Pan alert, with AOPM team mates, I got over 5 stacks of avenger (!!!). There's not much of a difference at 4+, because my reflexes + latency can't take advantage, but it's still amusing.
It's to use wrist bolters with the adv. and revitalize, with con as a secondary stat, sentry for twist fate and frequent/permanent implosion engine/actives (like ego surge with nimble mind).
I'm not sure on the damage because wrist bolters is basically almost nothing. And if we swap in chest beam for a high damage charge attack, it doesn't get the full advantage from quarry. Although, chest beam is inherently high damage, and it's got a debuff... You also lose the 100' attack factor, and the AOE will be more finicky overall. However, if ego surge with nimble can be up a lot, then the crit rate could be very high indeed. Oh, one could keep micro munitions and have frequent fire all weapons because of revitalize...
It also intrigues me because it might be possible to make a quarry tank that's ultra tough this way. If wrist bolters with the adv. triggers revitalize, then more important than ego surge with nimble mind being up almost constantly, then masterful dodge can also be up almost constantly, and any time your health dips a lot, you're not many seconds away from resurgence.
I'm very tempted to test this.
I find myself having to stop and use my EB as well. Not as often as one would think with all 3 attacks blaring and criting. I am torn on what kind of stating makes this build the most effective? I see here that your way into DM for your INT,but your cooldowns must be pretty low as well as the other bonuses that INT gives you to the other powers in this build. What is a good balance? I currently have only 297 to INT, around 200 to EGO and 167 to END. Am I gimping myself anywhere?
As for how to stat, INT/REC/END is a pretty safe choice and pretty easy to use and I imagine it's the most consistent in performance but whether it's the best, I wouldn't know. I'm going to test INT/REC/DEX with END through talents and ignoring EGO entirely except for the Quarry bonus but not for a few days.
EDIT: Trying to mix some DEX into my stats. Looking pretty promising. I like the 45% crit rate. And I surprisingly haven't run into energy problems yet. Napkin math is looking at only about 5% damage increase but everyone knows it's more fun to see crits. My kingdom for a damage meter.
Name:
Archetype: Freeform
Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)
Talents:
Level 1: The Inferno
Level 6: Negotiator
Level 9: Investigator
Level 12: Amazing Stamina
Level 15: Coordinated
Level 18: Impresario
Level 21: Accurate
Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Tactical Missiles (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mini Gun (Rank 2, U-238 Rounds, Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 8: Quarry (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Overdrive
Level 14: Micro Munitions (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Concentration
Level 20: Energy Shield (Phalanx Defense System)
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Lock N Load (Rank 2)
Level 35: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Conviction
Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Swinging (Flippin')
Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Tinkering (2/2)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Avenger Mastery (1/1)
EDIT: Mini Gun is using Guidance System, Powerhouse hasn't updated to show that it's properly at 1 point now so I use Accelerated Metabolism as a placeholder. Build would also work as a leveling build but I would say that Guardian/Vindicator would serve you better while leveling. Also in hindsight I would have put Evasive Maneuvers as the last power to take so I can easily swap it for Smoke Grenade, Sonic Device or whatever I need.
Let's see... plug laser sword (and other laser sword-ish moves) into the hand slot. Have a robot limb/tail/tentacle PBAOE attack (based on the whirling chain type animations, or floating drone-looking things that appear and spin around the character like razor discs), or perhaps a reflect % damage maintain for the chest slot. Have a % resistance debuff maintain or % dodge buff maintain for the shoulder/head slot.
I think this would be very cool, and much more consistent with the existing PA mechanics than the way it is now. I also know this is not going to happen because they've just done the PA pass and there's other powersets (ahem, force) that badly need attention next.
interesting, I'm gonna take this for a spin on my next retcon. I also noticed on your comparison with the ego and rec builds your base stats are 353 and around 185 for both secondaries. For the original gyrojet how did you get your end/ego to be so even? I've been playing around with my gear and cannot strike that balance.
I have been a long-time Power Armourite, and always find inspiration (or just a direct guide) from Pulsewave's wealth of testing and well-thought out advice.
At the moment, I am running the Gyrojet build - I had my own version, but Pulsewave's was slightly more energy efficient. I am looking to work into the build Plasma Beam, I love the idea and conceptually it looks amazing (my hero is a cyborg with an entirely robotic left arm, so the fact that Tac missiles and Plasma beam emit from the left works so well visually and conceptually!)
The problem comes from swapping out the only skill that is viable to do; Tactical Missiles, and thereby rendering the build slightly less DPSy as Quarry increases physical damage more than it does energy/particle.
So - do I swap Quarry for Targeting Computer (but then lose out on the avoidance and dodge buff that also works nicely with Resurgent Reiki for Bountiful Chi) and the buff to Ego and Intelligence... just for a conceptual and somewhat targeting bugged skill...
Anyone use Plasma Beam in the hand slot in they're build, alongside the traditional minigun and micro-munitions maitained attacks?
If you're running Guardian/Vindicator like the posted Pulsewave build, you're already not using Tactical Missiles to its best DPS potential so a bit more loss wouldn't really hurt. Just stick with Quarry, you get less DPS but the survivability is just too good IMO. Also Plasma Beam being a maintain it will help keep Overdrive at 3 stacks better than Tactical Missiles and the gradual instead of burst use of energy tends to be work better with Overdrive anyway.
I will likely make sure my specialisations are geared towards a maintained hand slot attack, maximising the AoE damage potential and energy returns.
Any advice?
I've recently returned from a long hiatus, SO much has changed - for the better. But it's alot to get your head around, then there is needing to change ALL of my gear out (bit of a shame) my old build never ran out of energy with Int/End/Rec - I realise I could go down that path again, but the damage bonus from Ego is to good to pass up. I will gear for Rec as far as I can.
Mainly I am focusing on keeping Int high, then Ego, then Endurance, then stacking offense, crit chance, and avoidance, working in Rec on some gear also.
On a sidenote, what an awesome yet awful power 'Reconstruction Circuits' is.. I really wanted it to be good and it's ok.. but using a slot? AND stopping the maintained attacks? A step to far methinks, it does'nt synergise well, but then it's a trade off, but sadly the trade off is'nt even tempting.
I'd love to see, Plasma Beam get a targeting fix, and some form of adjustment to Res Circuits, other than that - loving the PA review changes.
If you look a few pages previous, I did post some number between INT/EGO/END and INT/REC/END. Energy efficiency will always be the way to maximizing power armor DPS.
EDIT: Actually if you're not taking Avenger Mastery, you probably wouldn't need that much END.
Here - http://sourceforge.net/projects/combatlogparser/ - is a working combat log parser. It doesn't (currently) do anything useful with pets, but it works just fine for everything else. You start it up, locate the combat log file, open it and then proceed to test. It'll parse in real-time.
To turn on your combat log:
/CombatLog 1
To turn off your combat log:
/CombatLog 0
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
I actually had to dig up quite a long way back in the forums to find that. Still worth reposting so it can help people decide their builds. Sucks that unless you have resources to burn, you're not going to be doing much testing as silver. Dummies are just plain terrible for parsing.
2) If I put Dexterity as the last superstat, will it give me reasonable crit chance?
3) Is Recovery useful as secondary superstat? Since intelligence as primary Superstat helps to provide energy equilibrium from spec tree.
1. Not really, it's nice to have but long term energy generation is more important for PA than high Equilibrium. Then again high Equilibrium usually means high REC which is the stat that most powers Overdrive, the energy unlock you're most likely to be using.
2. About 42% crit chance along with crit gear. About 46% if you use the INT spec that improves the bonus from Secondary SS.
3. As I said before, if you're using Overdrive, you're going to want REC to make it stronger.
EDIT: I should have said that the crit is with around 180-190 DEX and with crit gear/mods.
PowerHouse
Archetype: Freeform
Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Ego (Secondary)
Talents:
Level 1: Tech Savvy
Level 6: Healthy Mind
Level 9: Ascetic
Level 12: Academics
Level 15: Boundless Reserves
Level 18: Investigator
Level 21: Daredevil
Powers:
Level 1: Wrist Bolter
Level 1: Concussor Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 11: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Imbue (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Chest Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Shoulder Launcher (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Ascension
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Smoke Grenade (Rank 2, Escape Artist)
Travel Powers:
Level 6: Teleportation
Level 35: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Specializations:
Intelligence: Preparation (2/2)
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)
~
PA PvP tank
PowerHouse
Archetype: Freeform
Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)
Talents:
Level 1: Superhuman
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Relentless
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Negotiator
Powers:
Level 1: Particle Rifle
Level 1: Sonic Device (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 11: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Ice Cage (Sub-Zero Cellblock, Crippling Challenge)
Level 17: Force Geyser (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 20: Chest Beam (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Shoulder Launcher (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Ascension
Level 38: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Travel Powers:
Level 6: Teleportation
Level 35: Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Tenacious (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
Fast explanation:
AoPM:
#1 give some REC and END, because it you need not take super stat REC/END.
#2 Particle Damage + Fire Damage + Crushing Damage, and Target Computer is a waste passive.
INT primary tree - works awesome with AoPM, and low cooldown, you can rotate MD and resurgence and smoke grenade to survive (you're squish, remember it).
STR primary tree - high defense, high severity, no more.
@becca_black
Try use shoulder launcher + chest beam + concussor beam in same time, you need a huge energy for it.
And warden + guardian over increase offense for more damage.
@becca_black
I commented because you said it's a full PvE DPS build and my testing has so far shown that offensive passives will out perform one running AOPM. EGO as a secondary SS has also shown to be a very small, almost negligible damage per hit increase. High end PA DPS currently seems to favor Guardian/Avenger with Avenger Mastery and building around keeping Avenger mastery proc'd via high crit and making sure you have enough energy to keep spamming charged Tactical Missiles.
Also I question how much actual damage having two sets of Best Defense gives, after all the difference between 275 EGO and 120 EGO turned out to be less than 2%.
If I want to have power like fire all weapon which requires a lot of energy, can I have this build like :
INT/REC/DEX ? Do I have enough energy to use that power if Recovery is my second superstat instead of endurance?
I would like to have Dexterity to increase my critical chance besides mods.
Is vindicator good for dps as specialization? I notice that there are critical chance in that spec.
1 and 3) It depends on how you like to play. I like to avoid having to use my Energy Builder, at if if I can help it. You Equilibrium points mostly determined REC helps you have a pool of energy to to crank out an alpha strike first of. With a decent records, you'll need to use your Energy builder to build up a decent amount of energy to keep slot power running.
2). Yes. SSS Dex would get your a very nice increase for your chances of Criting. But at level 40, you can get Silver Champions Gear which has +Crit Chance back into the gear (along with 3 Mod slots).
For my PA character, I took INT as Primary SS with REC and END as secondary SSs. With my gear I have 389 Energy with an Equilibriumof 176, I also invested in the End Cost reduction gear and the same from the Spec Trees. That allows me to do a fulll cycle of my main rotation of Concussors, Mini-gun and Mico-Munitions. And I get back about 3/4 of the way to max Energy with Overdrive
I would say that you want either INT and End as a minimum SSs Both is preferrable. Or pumping one or the other with Gear. Energy Management is THE key to geting the most damage out of a ranged PA build.
It's unlikely you can pull off a full maintain without END to increase your max energy. Vindicator is a great spec for making a survivable DPS when combined with Guardian since Best Defense and Aggressive Stance play off each other.
Thanks a lot for the info. I will keep endurance as my superstat then.
Anyway, when I choose my talents, should I have some constitution as a PA dps?
If I make use of vindicator spec tree, should I use gears mod with critical strike or mod with highest offense I can get?
Can I have a build which can survive both pve and pvp? I notice that when using PA powers, I always get the message that " target is out of targetting arc" if the target is moving around which makes pretty hard to pvp.
Not going to pretend I know much about PvP, so I can't really help you much there. I know some people do use PA attacks. And well, if you can survive in PvP, you can certainly survive in PvE. How good you'll perform as a DPS in PvE setting using a PvP build is a different matter. Becca did already post a PvP build though a few posts up.
Ok Thanks. I will try to look for his thread then.
Is it possible to have 50% critical chance with this build?
So far I have seen many players are having around 40% critical chance.
Thanks for the info.
You mentioned about going to test on INT/REC/DEX in one of your previous post. Does it work well? How is it compare to INT/END/REC?
It depends on how energy hungry your build is. I stuck with INT/END/REC for ease of use but the crit from going with DEX was pretty nice.
Thanks for the info.
Does it only absorb damage or it also provide health regeneration?
Why someone mentioned that it works better with Invulnerability as passive?
Is orbital canon a good power to match with PA for pve?