if you want character to be more open about their race, than I feel that this thread is turning into borderline racism. Specifically because the OP wants black people to be a certain kind of positive stereotype. The problem here is that there is no such thing as a positive stereotype in any race.
Black people are in this game. If you can't accept that they aren't portrayed how you want them to be, than you are the problem.
It's not that big of a change. He can still be the same guy. How would being black change his backround?
I'm well aware that Cryptic COULD force a change.
Such a change would affect his background greatly, I'm not sure if there is an image of Mark Whitaker anywhere in the sourcebooks but if fans have an established image in their head of a character, it's pretty jarring when all of a sudden some random person strolls up and is supposed to be the same guy.
Black people are in this game. If you can't accept that they aren't portrayed how you want them to be, than you are the problem.
On the one hand, I can agree with the idea that going forward, Cryptic and CO should avoid some of the more offensive, blatant forms of stereotyping (Hi Pan in the intro-series of Westside, Baron Cimitiere, and so on) going forward. On the other, I'm not really ever going to agree with changing things that have been in the IP just to make other people happier and/or feel good about themselves.
Or just change for change's sake (poor Drifter and Kevin Poe).
Though I think Cimitiere may have been the way he is in the IP, but also created in a time where that kind of thing was more acceptable then it is today (at least for comic book settings). Still, point stands.
Though I think Cimitiere may have been the way he is in the IP, but also created in a time where that kind of thing was more acceptable then it is today (at least for comic book settings). Still, point stands.
Judging from my copy of the Vibora Bay sourcebook, Baron Cimetiere as we know him ingame, doesn't exist in the PnP and has been invented by Cryptic. There is mention of the Sovereign Sons in the sourcebook and also that they are led by a man known as the Baron, but they are said to be nothing but a mundane street gang and neither of them are stated to be affiliated with voodoo. (though rumors exist concerning 'The Baron').
Appearance-wise, the Baron from the Pnp is said to be a tall, handsome, lightskinned black man of indeterminate age. In contrast to his followers, who wear street clothing, he dresses in expensive men?s suits and has large gold rings on three of his fingers. He doesn't carry any weapons openly, but gives the impression he has no trouble looking out for himself. He speaks with a deep-voiced Jamaican accent.
Ironically the Champions used to have a different 'racial mix' themselves. The girl who is Sapphire now was I think Quasar and she was black, they used to have a brazilian hispanic fellow who was a were-jaguar and Ironclad was a black/stone skinned fellow named Obsidian.
'Course they also had a aussie 'ninja' named Seeker...
And Witchcraft was known as Solitaire, her story's pretty well the same though
Only Defender hasn't changed much.. well he got more buff.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
It's not that big of a change. He can still be the same guy. How would being black change his backround?
They can't. They be would violating another copyright issue with Marvel. Who owns a gadget-wielding/martial artist vigilante named Nighthawk who they recently re-imagined as african-americian.
Who also just so happens to be based on Batman as well.
_____________
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Judging from my copy of the Vibora Bay sourcebook, Baron Cimetiere as we know him ingame, doesn't exist in the PnP and has been invented by Cryptic. There is mention of the Sovereign Sons in the sourcebook and also that they are led by a man known as the Baron, but they are said to be nothing but a mundane street gang and neither of them are stated to be affiliated with voodoo. (though rumors exist concerning 'The Baron').
Appearance-wise, the Baron from the Pnp is said to be a tall, handsome, lightskinned black man of indeterminate age. In contrast to his followers, who wear street clothing, he dresses in expensive men?s suits and has large gold rings on three of his fingers. He doesn't carry any weapons openly, but gives the impression he has no trouble looking out for himself. He speaks with a deep-voiced Jamaican accent.
((Source: Hero System - Vibora Bay))
Ah - I admittedly skimmed most of that one. ob
It sounds like the only thing that's mostly accurate for Baron Cimetiere is the suit (though his is pretty torn up) and the accent...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Why should a character that's been in the IP since the 1980's have to change his ethnicity for you to feel 'good' about it?
EDIT: Case examples - Nick Fury and Ultimate Spider-man. Examine the responses when the changes were introduced (for different reasons, I might add, then diversity). Both also did so by introducing new characters (one in a bad way, and one in a slightly better way), technically, but there was still a lot of people wondering why it needed to be done at all (particularly in the case of Fury, who only changed to make the 'core' setting more like the Ultimates version to avoid confusing fans; Dead serious on that, too).
No Nick Fury was changed in Ultimates because he was always designed after what was cool at the time. New Universe and Samuel L. Jackson was cool.
No Nick Fury was changed in Ultimates because he was always designed after what was cool at the time. New Universe and Samuel L. Jackson was cool.
Actually, I believe it's a reference to the mainline comics; I've heard tell that Nick's previously-unknown son, who bears a close resemblance to Samuel Jackson, is/will be showing up...
Oh, and Loki, reading the article more closely, one or two of those Nighthawks were black, which means that unless they make this Nighthawk Hispanic or Asian, there's going to be some resemblance. I still say that the best reason for not making this NH black is because there's no good reason to do so, other than some vague stab at "political correctness".
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Why indeed? Seems most of the Asian Americans in game also know Kung-Fu or are really good with electronics. That's odd isn't it?
May I remind you that most of the superhero characters actually created in Japan are of a technological or mystical origin and use martial arts.
Well, Asian-Americans may be another thing. But I also have to point out that Gadget Boy doesn't count, because he is not one bit American.
So, the only Asian-American character I recal, aside from the Cult of the Red Banner, is the punny named scientist Dr. Akula.
Nope. He is simply a speedster who happens to be black. The game makes no big deal of his color.
I'd rather have a chat with Shadow Destroyer about Oubliette. She is Kenitic - gone horribly wrong on multiple levels. Which kinda fits the setting of the evil mirror world.
As for Nighthawk: Go with the PnP lore. If the lore isn't specific for that part, just do what you think is right.
You could even make him Afro-Asian-American if you feel like it. :biggrin:
Actually, I believe it's a reference to the mainline comics; I've heard tell that Nick's previously-unknown son, who bears a close resemblance to Samuel Jackson, is/will be showing up...
Short version in the link, read the newspost attached to get a better idea. I make no claims about the work-safeness of Gutters, though I made sure that at least the comic linked was fine. Just, yanno, be careful browsing. Do so at your own risk, etc.
While I strongly support a larger ethnic diversity among our cast of characters, especially given the real world ethnic mix of Detroit, I'm not sure making the preeminent "guy who takes the law into his own hands" and "guy who steps outside the system in the name of justice" type into an African-American is such a good idea.
On the other hand, a new All-American who's African-American could be a nice addition .
Actually, I believe it's a reference to the mainline comics; I've heard tell that Nick's previously-unknown son, who bears a close resemblance to Samuel Jackson, is/will be showing up...
Oh, and Loki, reading the article more closely, one or two of those Nighthawks were black, which means that unless they make this Nighthawk Hispanic or Asian, there's going to be some resemblance. I still say that the best reason for not making this NH black is because there's no good reason to do so, other than some vague stab at "political correctness".
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Comments
Black people are in this game. If you can't accept that they aren't portrayed how you want them to be, than you are the problem.
I'm well aware that Cryptic COULD force a change.
Such a change would affect his background greatly, I'm not sure if there is an image of Mark Whitaker anywhere in the sourcebooks but if fans have an established image in their head of a character, it's pretty jarring when all of a sudden some random person strolls up and is supposed to be the same guy.
Brick_McDuggins in game.
On the one hand, I can agree with the idea that going forward, Cryptic and CO should avoid some of the more offensive, blatant forms of stereotyping (Hi Pan in the intro-series of Westside, Baron Cimitiere, and so on) going forward. On the other, I'm not really ever going to agree with changing things that have been in the IP just to make other people happier and/or feel good about themselves.
Or just change for change's sake (poor Drifter and Kevin Poe).
Though I think Cimitiere may have been the way he is in the IP, but also created in a time where that kind of thing was more acceptable then it is today (at least for comic book settings). Still, point stands.
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
Judging from my copy of the Vibora Bay sourcebook, Baron Cimetiere as we know him ingame, doesn't exist in the PnP and has been invented by Cryptic. There is mention of the Sovereign Sons in the sourcebook and also that they are led by a man known as the Baron, but they are said to be nothing but a mundane street gang and neither of them are stated to be affiliated with voodoo. (though rumors exist concerning 'The Baron').
Appearance-wise, the Baron from the Pnp is said to be a tall, handsome, lightskinned black man of indeterminate age. In contrast to his followers, who wear street clothing, he dresses in expensive men?s suits and has large gold rings on three of his fingers. He doesn't carry any weapons openly, but gives the impression he has no trouble looking out for himself. He speaks with a deep-voiced Jamaican accent.
((Source: Hero System - Vibora Bay))
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
'Course they also had a aussie 'ninja' named Seeker...
And Witchcraft was known as Solitaire, her story's pretty well the same though
Only Defender hasn't changed much.. well he got more buff.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
They can't. They be would violating another copyright issue with Marvel. Who owns a gadget-wielding/martial artist vigilante named Nighthawk who they recently re-imagined as african-americian.
Who also just so happens to be based on Batman as well.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Ah - I admittedly skimmed most of that one. ob
It sounds like the only thing that's mostly accurate for Baron Cimetiere is the suit (though his is pretty torn up) and the accent...
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
The fact that this didn't come up on page one is embarrassing, people.
There is a very good reason Nighthawk can't be African-American. It's called infringement. Click here.
Sorry, but I'm not getting your point...
All of Marvel's Nighthawks were white. Making the CO Nighthawk black would actually move the character further from any infringement, not closer...
However I personally think they should stick with the IP. I feel anything that ties CO closer to the pnp game is a good thing...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
No Nick Fury was changed in Ultimates because he was always designed after what was cool at the time. New Universe and Samuel L. Jackson was cool.
Oh, and Loki, reading the article more closely, one or two of those Nighthawks were black, which means that unless they make this Nighthawk Hispanic or Asian, there's going to be some resemblance. I still say that the best reason for not making this NH black is because there's no good reason to do so, other than some vague stab at "political correctness".
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I do agreed that this games need more diversity,so I'm all for nighthawk being black.
May I remind you that most of the superhero characters actually created in Japan are of a technological or mystical origin and use martial arts.
Well, Asian-Americans may be another thing. But I also have to point out that Gadget Boy doesn't count, because he is not one bit American.
So, the only Asian-American character I recal, aside from the Cult of the Red Banner, is the punny named scientist Dr. Akula.
Nope. He is simply a speedster who happens to be black. The game makes no big deal of his color.
I'd rather have a chat with Shadow Destroyer about Oubliette. She is Kenitic - gone horribly wrong on multiple levels. Which kinda fits the setting of the evil mirror world.
As for Nighthawk: Go with the PnP lore. If the lore isn't specific for that part, just do what you think is right.
You could even make him Afro-Asian-American if you feel like it. :biggrin:
Ding.
Short version in the link, read the newspost attached to get a better idea. I make no claims about the work-safeness of Gutters, though I made sure that at least the comic linked was fine. Just, yanno, be careful browsing. Do so at your own risk, etc.
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]
On the other hand, a new All-American who's African-American could be a nice addition .
I'm re-quoting myself below.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Oops... sorry. I missed the entry on the Supreme Power version of Nighthawk...
I stand corrected...
:redface:
Although, honestly, he wears a full face mask so one couldn't tell what race he was while in costume...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!