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CP to ZEN rage post
lezard21
Posts: 1,510 Arc User
So yesterday after 2 weeks of grinding i had 1600 CP and was 2400 CP away from a FF slot. Today I have 2100 ZEN and I am 2900 ZEN away from FF slot.
So yeah, nice going PWE overlords!
QQ/RQ
So yeah, nice going PWE overlords!
QQ/RQ
Post edited by lezard21 on
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First off, you got 25% more Zen when you were converted from CP to Zen.
Second off, all prices went up 25%.
Third off, your stipend (if any) is now 500 a month.
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I for one love it - more Q for me for selling my Zen.
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QFT. However, it looks that they didn't change the exchange market offers prior patch so the market suffer a sudden jump in prices from 200Q per CP to around 250Q per CP(now 200Q per Zen). If the market will go back to the previous value or just will stay up, it is uncertain.
First: kudos to you for America bashing. I guess it makes you the popular guy on your block. Yay for you.
Now, perhaps if you had received your education anywhere in the world other than where you supposedly did, you would have received some degree of instruction in basic economics.
The supply of CP (now Zen) just went up by 25%. In most cases, and almost always when dealing with luxury goods, an increase in supply, particularly one of this magnitude, will result, after some time for market settling, in an adjustment to market exchange rates that come at least somewhat close to balancing out.
Oh, and writing is every bit as important as reading skills. Your OP did not specify which aspect of the conversion was the source of your rage.
Question: Did you really receive greater than a 25% increase during the conversion process ?
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Even if it was 2400 CP at rates 1 CP for 50 Q, it would still be 2900 Zen at rate of 1 Zen for 50 Q. My point, it should have been an increase of 25% in prices, and an increase of 50% of your current CP to Zen to maintain the relationship on what you could buy before conversion, and what you can buy now.
1680*0.25 = 420 Zen + 1680 Zen = 2100 Zen -> 2900 Zen difference towards FF slot
1680*0.50 = 840 Zen + 1680 Zen = 2520 Zen ->2480 Zen difference towards FF slot = original difference
Edit: Another example lets take AF which used to cost 80 CP. With 1680 CP I could buy 21 AF. With 25% bonification I get 2100 Zen, and price of 110 Zen each I can buy 19 AF.
Or is this really a rant about not liking the market exchange rate, and irrelevant to the Cryptic points to Zen conversion? Sometimes writers complain that their editor put a misleading title on their article.
Quaternion from the previous forum
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Last time I checked (that is, 40 secs ago), AF cost 100 Z. Which means that you can still buy 21.
Anyway, the problem was that Cryptic inadvertently introduced an inflation in the Q market, they should have reduced the amount of Q per Z of all the offers accordingly.
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Dude! 7 hours was not enough time for devs to change CP into Zen, and copy paste new textures into old bosses and call them brand new alerts!
I could easily PM you my IP if you are so interested towards the veracity of my location. I always wanted my very own stalker. What do I have to feed you?
AFAIK, all Q sales were outright removed and refunded. So all the ones that were put up were put up by the players manually.
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Texas or Mississippi?
Wait? Whaaaa..?
Same for me.
No CP, no Zen.
My CO (and STO) accounts are now all empty...
I hope this will be solved with today's maintenance.
Mathematics may possibly be a strong suit, but Economics? Not so much...
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Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
After several hours, q still buys even less than it did before the changeover. Considering the 20% difference, the market isn't reflecting that making it even harder for people to convert.
Range before patch was around 190-200q per cp point
Atm, you're looking at 195-205q per zen point
As Zen is effectively worth 20% less than the cp equivalent, right now players are paying more q to get less.
Of course, you could blame the market for that so....
"A player run economy is a good argument for not having a player run economy."
Considering you see this sort of panic driven mass knee jerk reaction type thing happen in real world markets where professionals are involved, it should really be no surprise that it will happen when you've got a bunch of uninformed gamer masses speculating on things they don't understand.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
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I was Dubsy on the Old Forums. I am still @Dubsy in-game. Also, lol.
And honestly, it's not the sellers, it's the buyers that are driving up the prices. Stop buying at inflated prices and the prices come down...
The sellers are just doing what any good seller does, get as much as the market will bear for their product...
So if you have a problem with the Q exchange price, stop buying and hope that the prices will fall...
Welcome to the stock market...
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
Depends on whether your game is PvE or PvP. PvE this applies well to, and certain individuals need to learn this, but PvP... Not so much. Try starting out with a vanilla Juggernaut against fully outfitted Doombringers and Brutes in Tribes, it's not pretty. CO's PvP is even worse, people will pay thousands of Gs for grandfathered gear you can't even get anymore.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
So... get a job, and buy them? Same thing, although if being the baddest badass of PvP in CO is really your top priority in life, you should pick up meditation or something. And yes, I know, you can't "buy" G, but you CAN buy ZEN, which can be converted into many other useful things, including G, in a roundabout way.
As far as having fun or not in PvP, eh, that's kind of limited by what the game defines as legal for the environment. Personally, I tend to not enjoy PvP because of the crowd I see it as generally feeding. People get nasty enough over how things go in PvE, I don't need to see how much worse it can get.
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I was Dubsy on the Old Forums. I am still @Dubsy in-game. Also, lol.
You're comparing a person you believe to be mis-calculating the changes to someone buying two drinks and getting 1 drink that's the same size as 2..
and at the same time implying they are stupid for questioning it, what if, i bought 2 sodas so i could give one to a gf or friend? am i not entitled to demand they fix their mistake?
Also, he mentioned grinding, not buying. Unless they re-evaluated the prices to be matched to before in the exchange, this would still be an increase, especially since some people will likely continue from the previous price of 200 Questionite per point. meaning the previous conversion price remains, but the total needed to acquire the item has increased.
In which case, only way to fix that would have been to raise the Q rwards by 25%, and raise the Q daily limit by 25% etc.
LAst i checked, only 1000 day vets got a cap limit increase.
Erm no. The only thing he was guaranteed value on was his Questionite. The exchange can - and does - fluxtuate massively. Regardless of the zen conversion, the exchange was well on it's way to 210 and above based on my charting - in fact, Q -> CP has trended up 50% over two months.
Therefore complaining that the market doesn't favour his Q to CP/Zen conversion is ridiculous, as it would have gone up regardless. If we remained on CP and the market jumped to 250 Questionite per CP, would the user have still popped up complaining? Well, if he had, he'd have been laughed out of the forums.
So - if the Questionite to Zen conversion rate dropped to 175 Questionite per Zen, would you post again advocating a 25% DROP in Questionite rewards and daily limit? I thought not.
Okay... so what you're saying is, if a currency is changed into something new. You're against a fullscale re-balance? everything- correction.. everything BUT the exchange in regards to CP to zen went up 25% but the exchange, which was designed and calculated with CP in mind, is now not up to scratch with it anymore. but i guess you don't care because "it would have gone up regardless" so it's all okay.
if the price of petrol (Gas, if you're american) at a petrol station went up to $5/litre all of a sudden when it was just at $1.2/litre would you just apethetically say "oh, it was gonna go up anyway" ? because it's a funny think when it comes to prices of oil and banks. prices and interest rates will always change to go agaisnt you when supply gets low, but when supply suddenly hits a high boom, they are very slow to lower down.
it's the same thing here. people get used to a high price, so they stick to it untill it gets higher and higher. even if supply is clearly higher than ever before.
So sure... you can tell me i'm an idiot for supposedly not knowing how supply/demand tends to work, which by the way i actually do know. but you missed my point that it still needs to be re balanced, it's obvious these changes have skewered it (that means affected) when it shouldn't have. all it's done is basically force a jump in the market to make things take longer to acquire.
but hey.... i guess you just want to keep it as is because you're probably making a quick buck out of those getting screwed by this and refuse to listen to a point about re-balanceing to match the new form of currency.
so to answer you ridiculous question with "if the market naturally spiked up would he still pop up complaining?"
I don't know... will he? you seem to know all.
also with this "So - if the Questionite to Zen conversion rate dropped to 175 Questionite per Zen, would you post again advocating a 25% DROP in Questionite rewards and daily limit? I thought not."
I like how you imply you know me so well. You make you assumption off the assumption you assume i'm only here to complain about prices.
But to answer a bad question, no, i wouldn't, provded the markets value went down naturally, and didn't just have a forced shift on it. Either cryptic allow player controlled market, or they regulate it themselves, either way, one should not interfere with the other regardless of the way it goes.
Actually, the price of the costume sets did go up... by 25 cents*
Before: 360 CP
After: 475 Z
360 + 25% = 450 (not 475)
*not complaining, just saying...
PS: They also rounded up the price of account wide costume slots by 2.5 cents*.
Before: 450 CP
After: 565 Z
450 + 25% = 562.5 (not 565)
*again, not complaining, just saying...
PS-2: Cryptic, you're charging me a couple more cents for costume stuffs, how could U?!?!? :mad:
I don't get it... if all prices went up by 25% and all CP went up by 25% how does it change like that? sounds to me like a bug, so report it
If the alert rewards had gone to 2000 x 1.25 = 2500 and the refinement limit to 8000 x 1.25 = 10000, then the OP would be out of line. But they did not.
I'm not going to calculate the adj value of the APs/Crises for you because it should be obvious by now and the boxes are variable amounts anyway.
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Price of FF slot went from 4000 to 5000.
Price of points on Q exchange stayed the same.
Amount of questionite we can refine per day stayed the same.
Oh wait, if you look at it that way the number of days it takes to get a FF slot, and anything else in the C-Store, actually increased!
Oh well, clever way to motivate people to spend more money on the game right?
In theory, on a graph, in the land of mathematical imagination, the price of the q exchange will go down due to a higher supply of Z. But in the real world, we all know the saying...
When the price of sugar goes up, the price of soda goes up.
When the price of sugar goes down, the price of soda goes up.
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I'm pretty sure costume prices were 380 before, not 360. Wiki seems to back this up:
http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/C-Store_Costumes
They were defenitely 380. Wonder how the heck people got 360...
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Im still pretty sure I saw 360 at some point because I double checked before I posted elsewhere that our prices were $4.50. But, bah... it doesn't matter.
PS: Even at $4.75 COs costume sets are by FAAAAARRRRRRRR the greatest value for our money than ANY game out there bar none--by a LONG freaking shot.
PS-2: By the way Tera's and TSW's cosmetic items are ridiculously priced compared to CO, STO and DCUO's prices.
PS-3: The costume slots still cost 2.5 cents extra
They might have been 380 at sometime?
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Since we went F2P at least they've always been 380, I know because I used my stipend for a Costume set one month then a Travel power (420) the next and end up with my CP where I started.
Yes, that is what is missing.
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I'm sitting on about 20k Q right now, because I'm considering trying to save up for one of those travel powers (and because I'm not a dedicated Q-farmer, or I'd probably have it already). If I put it all on the market, I might manage to depress the value of it temporarily, although with that relatively small amount, not by much.
The argument over the price of store items is beginning to remind me of an old episode of The Red Green Show I saw the other day. Red was gloating over headlines in the Port Asbestos newspaper, the Daily Movement, about the price of gas in the US (at the time, averaging $3.50/gal). He was happy because he was only paying about $1.45 per litre at his local station. Then Harold pointed out that there are just under four litres per gallon, so it worked out to the equivalent of about $4.50.gal. (And that was before taking the exchange rate between Canadian and US dollars into account - at the time, it was much like the exchange rate between CP and Zen, in that one Canadian dollar was worth about 80 cents in the States.)
Similarly, many people are complaining about the "sudden increase" in the price of items in the store, when all that's happened is a currency conversion. The cost per item when converted to real-world cash is the same as it's always been; the pretend tokens we use these days have a different value, is all. For instance, a FF slot is priced at $50 US; that was 4000 CP due to the odd way in which CP had been priced, and is now 5000 Zen, since Zen convert to USD at a convenient 100:1. That's also why the stipend, once 400 CP, is now 500 Zen - either way, it's equivalent to $5 US.
And yes, your available balance, if any, has increased by the same percentage - verified this experimentally with my own (trivially small) balance. (Which reminds me - I ought to see if there are any more surveys I can do. One of these days, I want to buy a new AT...)
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This is why the Euro had such a hard time being adopted in Europe.
Actually, no. The trouble with the Euro is that it's a monetary union without a fiscal union, and some of the countries that use it need a much stronger currency than others. That's why it was so widely predicted that it would be a disaster, and why it's going to get going to get worse before it gets better. For that matter, Europe's fiscal nightmare isn't going to get better until some countries leave the Euro--which would, in itself, cause considerable tumult in the short term.
But that has nothing to do with Cryptic points versus Zen. This is just a nominal change, whose only real purpose is to make the lives of some people at Perfect World simpler.
Quaternion from the previous forum
Hmm, I don't recall the prices of items in the Q store going up by 25%. Thus, there is no reason to raise the rewards or refinement limits. If people stop buying the Q at the "higher" prices, then prices will go down. The current situation was initiated by the developer's changes, but was actually the doing of the sellers. Whether it gets worse, better or stays the same is up to the buyers.
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And this is why I hate paying for stuff in Euros.
I LIVE IN ENGLAND!
GIVE ME PRICES IN POUND STERLING, NOT THIS EURO NONSENSE THAT MEAN'S I'M PAYING A DIFFERENT PRICE FOR THE SAME PACKAGE OF ZEN EVERY DAY!!!
The discussion was about grinding Q for exchange into CP/Zen, not spending the Q on items in the Q-store. You're comparing apples and oranges here as the OP is not talking about buying Q or even using it in the Q-store, but rather grinding it to buy Zen.
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The sellers? If anyone should be blamed, it's the buyers. They're the ones bearing the price.
EDIT: Really, the amount of Q entering the market is meaningless. You don't need to increase the amount of Q and it would actually be detrimental in the long run to do so because you know what? It would cause the price to actually RISE. What has happened here is the conversion hit and everyone's running "business as normal". It's not some evil plot to make you spend more money and to suggest such is laughable.
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I never complained about the Q rates. In fact, if by tomorrow the comunity decided to sell their Zen for 1->500Q, I wouldn't complain at all. It's their money, their decision how to make it worth.
The reason I was complaining about in my post is that for people who have to grind their CP/Zen they now have to grind more for their stuff, ex. 20 CP->Zen more for Action Figures, 1000 CP->Zen more for FF slot.
This MATH (which people are very eager to say I lack) is the same regardless if rates are 1 Zen for 50Q or 1 Zen for 500Q. Let's say I was able to grind 100 CP per day, before conversion I would have had to grind 40 days for a FF slot, now I have to grind for 50 days.
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