I would like is around a 50% chance of beating them.
I feel we already have that. More than that, even. Maybe not everyone as soon as they log in, but people who've got their feet under them and are paying attention? Easily over 50%.
By definition someone who has just started will be challenged by things that do not challenge someone with years of experience. That is kind of inherent in any game where player skill can have any impact at all.
some form of artificial lag buffer would have to be introduced to prevent an experienced player who knows whats coming from reacting more quickly than a newcomer
Huh? Twitch players know no skill. One a n00b learns about the block key experience only comes down to knowing what to block.
all player character attacks would have to be redirected at a random target in order to prevent an experienced player's understanding of target prioritization from giving him an advantage
For what its worth, healing builds with insignificant, at best, DPS capabilities exist. I know a number of players that use them.
I believe you. Freeform characters can be pretty strange. They're not what I'd call average however. I don't see many healers at all in most of my PUG and those that I do see half don't even bother healing.
Personally I don't know that the average player finds missions of this sort to be very difficult. Ive not participated in the studies that you have to come to this realization. I do know that 75% of all internet statistics are made up on the spot though :biggrin:
Look at the numbers sometime, there are 30 or 40 queued for Dockside dustup, 3 or 4 for Trainstopping. Dockside Dustup is quicker, easier, and very straight forward and thus everyone wants to play it.
The point that I responded to was not a claim, on your part, that alerts should be balanced for the average player. It was, "An Alert should be possible to complete regardless of the team's make up."
The key word there should be "Possible", if you've failed on the opening cinematic then the game is not worth playing because failure has been predetermined. If on the other hand failure rests in the hands of the players then a mission is worth running even if your odds are greatly reduced by the party makeup.
"Regardless of team composition," and, "assuming an average player," are not even close to being the same.
Team composition is something that's usually out of the player's hands, it's something that is usually controlled by the mysterious queuing system. Assuming the average player is a design philosophy that designers usually take into consideration when building levels and missions. You want to see good design check out Portal. Bad design is all over the place. The two things are not the same but they're also two things that are usually out of the player's control. Asking for a designer to take them into consideration is about all I can do.
I feel we already have that. More than that, even. Maybe not everyone as soon as they log in, but people who've got their feet under them and are paying attention? Easily over 50%.
Perhaps that's because the n00bs aren't even trying anymore? My experiences do not reflect yours. I once failed 6 times in a row. What a waste of time.
Perhaps that's because the n00bs aren't even trying anymore? My experiences do not reflect yours. I once failed 6 times in a row. What a waste of time.
Yeah .. i also had very high fail rates the last days on Nemesis Alerts. Seems the players
are getting more gimpy from day to day :redface:
I'm back to normal leveling, but just wanted to refresh my Exp Bonus from time to time,
and really there was even a Guy Sweetland Dockside where only 1-2 seconds were left,
and Nemesis really was 50/50 the last days, while 2 weeks ago i made 30 runs and had
only 1 fail.
You do realize that most of the players have these things called Archetypes right?
This is not applicable to the statement you linked it to. Of course many players use AT's, but they are not all the same build. The AT's are almost as varied in power level as are FF builds. If a veteran is going to be challenged equally by a bit of content as is a new player, then both will have to play the same build so that the veteran cannot take advantage of his superior knowledge of power synergies in designing a build.
Huh? Twitch players know no skill. One a n00b learns about the block key experience only comes down to knowing what to block. Huh? indeed . . .
I said nothing about twitch players. I was referring to the ability of a veteran to make more timely decisions and take actions with better timing than a new player who may very well have no idea what to do when. The new player may actually have better raw reflexes than the veteran, but the veteran will have a better idea of timing.
I believe you. Freeform characters can be pretty strange. They're not what I'd call average however. I don't see many healers at all in most of my PUG and those that I do see half don't even bother healing.
Perhaps not average, but then again the statement I responded to wasn't about average. It was about every possible character.
Look at the numbers sometime, there are 30 or 40 queued for Dockside dustup, 3 or 4 for Trainstopping. Dockside Dustup is quicker, easier, and very straight forward and thus everyone wants to play it.
More popular doesn't equate to very difficult. Less easy is every bit as applicable an explanation.
The key word there should be "Possible", if you've failed on the opening cinematic then the game is not worth playing because failure has been predetermined. If on the other hand failure rests in the hands of the players then a mission is worth running even if your odds are greatly reduced by the party makeup.
Odds greatly reduced is not the same as impossible. Pugs do succeed at these, and so they are possible. If you choose, make a conscious choice, to lower your chance of success...that is your right. But shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining about the pain is silly
Team composition is something that's usually out of the player's hands,
Only if the player chooses for it to be so.
it's something that is usually controlled by the mysterious queuing system. Assuming the average player is a design philosophy that designers usually take into consideration when building levels and missions. You want to see good design check out Portal. Bad design is all over the place. The two things are not the same but they're also two things that are usually out of the player's control. Asking for a designer to take them into consideration is about all I can do.
You stated that the content should be equally challenging for a new player as it is for a veteran. Since the veteran has the advantage of skill developed over time that would mean that the veteran's skill would have to be negated, rendered inapplicable to the content.
You seem confused by the idea that in order for new players to face the same degree of challenge that veterans are exposed to (as you suggest), every single bit of advantage that is gained through experience, practice, and perseverance must be eliminated from the encounter/game.
This would mean preventing the veteran from using his experience to prioritize targets better, perhaps by randomizing his attacks so that he doesnt get to choose the best possible target, because the new player won't have that option.
It would mean that all players would have to play the same exact build because otherwise the veteran's knowledge of game mechanics and synergies would allow him to pick the better build/AT and so have an advantage over the new player.
and so on.
Again, in order for a new player to be challenged the same as a veteran he would have to be a veteran (by definition not possible if he is a new player) or all advantages inherent in knowing how to play the game would have to be removed so that veterans played as if they were new to the game.
Those examples are ridiculous and beyond reason. You design games for the average player not situations like those.
The average player is pretty bad. The consequences for dying are so minor they don't resonate with the majority of the player base. You can only do so much without removing any sense of challenge at all.
The worst thing I've seen alerts bring is making it easier for players to hit 40 without learning much if anything while getting there.
The average player is pretty bad. The consequences for dying are so minor they don't resonate with the majority of the player base. You can only do so much without removing any sense of challenge at all.
The worst thing I've seen alerts bring is making it easier for players to hit 40 without learning much if anything while getting there.
That's what I like about DCUO and City of Heroes
City of Heroes, you'd get "debt" (I assume that's still true). If you die too many times, it becomes a PitA to continue leveling up. So you try pretty hard not to die.
DCUO, your gear gets damaged and eventually falls apart. You can repair... but those repair jobs can get EXPENSIVE. If your team stinks and you face-roll a Raid then it can easily wipe you out. Forcing you to leave and do trash missions to get your money back just so you can fix your gear. Not to mention all Raid bosses had lock-outs (including the mini bosses).
Here... you lose a star. So maybe 1% damage or something. And they only recently started adding lock-outs. So there's little incentive to become a GOOD player... so most people just button mash.
You stated that the content should be equally challenging for a new player as it is for a veteran. Since the veteran has the advantage of skill developed over time that would mean that the veteran's skill would have to be negated, rendered inapplicable to the content.
You seem confused by the idea that in order for new players to face the same degree of challenge that veterans are exposed to (as you suggest), every single bit of advantage that is gained through experience, practice, and perseverance must be eliminated from the encounter/game.
This would mean preventing the veteran from using his experience to prioritize targets better, perhaps by randomizing his attacks so that he doesnt get to choose the best possible target, because the new player won't have that option.
It would mean that all players would have to play the same exact build because otherwise the veteran's knowledge of game mechanics and synergies would allow him to pick the better build/AT and so have an advantage over the new player.
and so on.
Again, in order for a new player to be challenged the same as a veteran he would have to be a veteran (by definition not possible if he is a new player) or all advantages inherent in knowing how to play the game would have to be removed so that veterans played as if they were new to the game.
Horrible idea.
I think you're a little confused here. You have team play with everyone placed at level 30. A new player, say a level 6 who just completed the tutorial, and a level 40 character trying to so a 3rd smash for the daily has their character lowered to a 30. They're both on the same team. The veteran has to work that much harder to cover the mistakes of the new player. That's balanced play. What I'm saying is that as is, trainstopping can be made near impossible by the poor play of the new gamer. Good tactics, good builds, prioritized targeting, and whatever other skills you want to point out struggle to cover the gap left by one weak link. Now if the new player zips around the map agroing new mobs while the others struggle then the mission has failed. The new guy has, possibly inadvertently, has cost everyone the match.
What I'm saying is the mission should be designed so that both players feel they're useful, the new player blasts things and the veteran player makes up the gap. On missions like Dockside dustup you can take a level 6 or two in the group and still beat the villain in time. If you want to continue misinterpreting what I'm saying to prop up your own position power to you but don't expect me to respond to you anymore. I have no problem with you disagreeing, I think some of these missions need to be tinkered with, you obviously don't, but please don't take what I'm saying to illogical extremes. That's called a Straw man argument and it makes you look foolish. Mind you it's not as bad as Godwin's law.
The average player is pretty bad. The consequences for dying are so minor they don't resonate with the majority of the player base. You can only do so much without removing any sense of challenge at all.
The worst thing I've seen alerts bring is making it easier for players to hit 40 without learning much if anything while getting there.
If the average player is "pretty bad" then why design a mission that only highlights this poor play? I'll remind you that missions like dockside dustup and two minute drill can be failed with poor play. Those are easy straight forward missions. If those can be failed then what chance does the average player have in a mission like trainstopping then? The problem is that there are four other players on the team.
I typically run things in pugs that can carry if necessary, because I do assume the team will fail if I don't.
It's sad that happens so often that it's become my mentality, but when there's no real punishment for defeats, people have little incentive to learn as I mentioned previously.
Initially I wanted them to be easier myself, but considering the lack of skill I see at various levels, watering it down further just does everyone a disservice.
If the average player is "pretty bad" then why design a mission that only highlights this poor play? I'll remind you that missions like dockside dustup and two minute drill can be failed with poor play. Those are easy straight forward missions. If those can be failed then what chance does the average player have in a mission like trainstopping then? The problem is that there are four other players on the team.
The sad part is these guys do a large portion of their leveling on Alerts, eventually end up doing Gravitar and altogether get the impression the game is badly designed and they just wasted time leveling a character in it. While this impression IS partially accurate, most of the really crappy design is either exclusive to or amplified by alerts. The sidekicking system changes are a good example of this.
Thing is, no amount of penalty or anything will change this, because the problem isn't just in the players. Heck, arguably you can't even blame the players, most people don't play games like it's a job. In fact, the idea that a statistical death penalty is a good idea is the mark of a bad designer, and someone who shouldn't even be involved in game making to begin with.
It's an inverse of what you're trying to achieve essentially, and most gamers have the most predictable reaction to it: Lash out at other people if they personally are good enough they aren't at fault, or quit the game if they don't have the time or effort to put up with that and the learning curve. It is no coincidence that MOBAs and MMOs with harsh penalties for failing tend to have some of the most hateful communities, one dumbass can rain righteous rage down on himself when he manages to singlehandedly bring down his whole team because he didn't RTFM in a game that requires you to.
So more or less, what these people want, is a game that requires you to read a ******n book on how to play it, and punishes you if you don't. If you want to talk about people with unrealistic expectations, you've got it right there. That is not going to be your average player who'd much rather just move on to another game.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
In fact, the idea that a statistical death penalty is a good idea is the mark of a bad designer, and someone who shouldn't even be involved in game making to begin with.
The majority of MMOs dictate otherwise, particularly the ones that make serious money.
So more or less, what these people want, is a game that requires you to read a ******n book on how to play it, and punishes you if you don't. If you want to talk about people with unrealistic expectations, you've got it right there. That is not going to be your average player who'd much rather just move on to another game.
I don't recall ever reading the manual on Super Mario Bros for my nintendo when I was a youngin - still ended up beating that, and that takes more skill and effort than most of what I do in CO now many years later. I agree there's a major learning curve with MMOs - HOWEVER, the basics are extremely simple. Most of the time I've spent "learning" in this game involved comprehending "cryptic math" and optimizing stats when taking diminishing returns into account.
But really saying people don't bother with "manuals" and reference material... that has little basis in fact. I can't recall any modern fighting game that learning "moves" weren't necessary. And people did learn, and those games have gone on to make lots of money - Street fighter has inspired two (mediocre) movies, the Mortal Kombat franchise had 2 or three. Both have changed a lot since the ones I played when I was growing up, but wouldn't still be around today if "your average player who'd much rather just move on to another game" was the case.
But really Xao, I've got plenty of frustrations and criticisms for Cryptic, but as vehement as your posts are, why haven't you just moved onto another game so you too could avoid RTFM or you know, all the actually legitimate problems with CO?
The sad part is these guys do a large portion of their leveling on Alerts, eventually end up doing Gravitar and altogether get the impression the game is badly designed and they just wasted time leveling a character in it. While this impression IS partially accurate, most of the really crappy design is either exclusive to or amplified by alerts. The sidekicking system changes are a good example of this.
Thing is, no amount of penalty or anything will change this, because the problem isn't just in the players. Heck, arguably you can't even blame the players, most people don't play games like it's a job. In fact, the idea that a statistical death penalty is a good idea is the mark of a bad designer, and someone who shouldn't even be involved in game making to begin with.
It's an inverse of what you're trying to achieve essentially, and most gamers have the most predictable reaction to it: Lash out at other people if they personally are good enough they aren't at fault, or quit the game if they don't have the time or effort to put up with that and the learning curve. It is no coincidence that MOBAs and MMOs with harsh penalties for failing tend to have some of the most hateful communities, one dumbass can rain righteous rage down on himself when he manages to singlehandedly bring down his whole team because he didn't RTFM in a game that requires you to.
So more or less, what these people want, is a game that requires you to read a ******n book on how to play it, and punishes you if you don't. If you want to talk about people with unrealistic expectations, you've got it right there. That is not going to be your average player who'd much rather just move on to another game.
I typically run things in pugs that can carry if necessary, because I do assume the team will fail if I don't.
It's sad that happens so often that it's become my mentality, but when there's no real punishment for defeats, people have little incentive to learn as I mentioned previously.
Initially I wanted them to be easier myself, but considering the lack of skill I see at various levels, watering it down further just does everyone a disservice.
What I'm trying to get at is there should be a way to make these missions more accessible to the average player without dumbing it down for the veteran player. You should be able to look at a map and know what to do. One of the problems with recruiting drive and soul siphon is that the inexperienced player sees all those enemies and assumes that that they need to clear the map. A map like Trainstopping requires everyone to stick together and focus their energy but the map starts you right in the center. There is a possibility that players will split up without knowing it as communication is non existent. Little bitty improvements to these maps, making them easier to understand, or even giving a few seconds to plan before the timer starts would help with the frustration I feel with the PUGs.
What I'm trying to get at is there should be a way to make these missions more accessible to the average player without dumbing it down for the veteran player.
That's really been their challenge. In other MMOs, debt xp is usually enough to get players to think twice if their actions get him/herself killed. Superhero MMOs are typically of a more casual nature and people are far less likely to be familiar with the usual trinity of tanking/healing/dps.
They removed elite scaling on loot because it wasn't adding "real difficulty" according to at least one of the devs.
They had gravitar hit for over 80k to create "difficulty" for her.
They've even added icons and changed titles for each of the roles to help clarify things.
But if I had never played an MMO, and this was my first taste of one, being a superhero and getting tossed around in alerts at the early levels would either turn me off the game or motivate me to learn how to overcome it. They really need to gate the alerts so that players actually need to play the game at the early levels and experience their character before allowing them to throw themselves upon alert mobs.
That's really been their challenge. In other MMOs, debt xp is usually enough to get players to think twice if their actions get him/herself killed. Superhero MMOs are typically of a more casual nature and people are far less likely to be familiar with the usual trinity of tanking/healing/dps.
They removed elite scaling on loot because it wasn't adding "real difficulty" according to at least one of the devs.
They had gravitar hit for over 80k to create "difficulty" for her.
They've even added icons and changed titles for each of the roles to help clarify things.
But if I had never played an MMO, and this was my first taste of one, being a superhero and getting tossed around in alerts at the early levels would either turn me off the game or motivate me to learn how to overcome it. They really need to gate the alerts so that players actually need to play the game at the early levels and experience their character before allowing them to throw themselves upon alert mobs.
It seemed early on we were on opposite sides of the coin but now I think we're actually on the same page. We have the same opinions we've just drawn different conclusions. Perhaps you had assumed that I wanted missions like trainstopping altered for my direct benefit whereas I was thinking if the redesign would help the team. The goons on some of the missions are still a bit beefy for my liking but if everyone on the team knew what to do it wouldn't be a problem.
I'd rather everyone know what to do, since it shouldn't take 40 levels - but I've known folks not to have a clue on how to use a minimap at 40, so I've learned to accept that it is what it is.
While the tutorial has improved a ton since I started, it still is pretty basic. The added videos in the PH help explain concepts, but I think they fall upon deaf ears (or blind eyes in that case).
I'd rather everyone know what to do, since it shouldn't take 40 levels - but I've known folks not to have a clue on how to use a minimap at 40, so I've learned to accept that it is what it is.
While the tutorial has improved a ton since I started, it still is pretty basic. The added videos in the PH help explain concepts, but I think they fall upon deaf ears (or blind eyes in that case).
Hmm... I wonder if the "____ Alert!" splash could be added to to state the exact objective of the particular alert. For instance, the recruiting drive splash could simply say "Victory condition: Defeat Kevin Poe", while the two minute drill would say "Victory condition: Defeat Kevin Poe and the Purple Gang members near him."
A lot of confusion arises when someone thinks they must clear all enemies when only the boss or the boss and his immediate group, are required. In a situation with such a short time span, being clear about what is or is not needed is key...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
As for the rest.. Viper X and other extremely-high mitigation bosses (most Dodgers, Might Nemesis, etc.) area right and proper pain in the arse, there's no denying. The pitiful numbers of players they draw is usually testament to the fact they're not that enjoyable to deal with.
I think that this is one of those, "logical fallacies."
There is nothing to say that these aren't less popular because others are more fun, rewarding, quicker, whatever. It doesn't follow that unpopular inherently means unenjoyable.
Rakshasa has no business being in smash missions, that's my personal opinion. I ahve no problem with him being in the other alerts but he's too annoying for the smash missions. Viper X and Draconis should have a warning on them to keep anyone below level 30 out. You need to be a heavy hitter to take those two down.
You don't have to be a heavy hitter, but the teams that take them on do need to be better skilled than someone like black fang.
The two I would consider the least likely smashes to succeed are Valerian and Baron.
Baron is a since if you can keep him CC'd and prevent the dolls from doing massive damage. However, you can't guarantee someone having CC in a pug.
Valerian can be rough regardless, as she'll usually defeat at least one person caught unaware when she pops her little "circle of death".
It's the ability to absorb damage rather then dish it out that usually foils the groups I've been in. Val usually goes down pretty quickly in a smash, it's the bursts and grabs where she really shines as she's got a lot more HP to chew through in many of those. I was on the reciving end of a total party wipe at the hands of the baron in a smash though, that was nasty. Sad thing is I knew he had that ability but I'm not a twitch player and by the time I realized I was taking massive damage my swordsman was on the ground. He needs to get the total wipe to refresh his hit points though, usually just knocking half the group down won't stall everyone enough.
Both Val and Baron can drop experienced players, even Psimon depending on if they activate their particular powers that make it so players end up killing themselves.
Baron's voodoo block hit an sg mate in pyramid for over 300k after mitigation over (455k before it).
I've one shot myself against psimon for over 70k against his reflection shield.
Comments
I feel we already have that. More than that, even. Maybe not everyone as soon as they log in, but people who've got their feet under them and are paying attention? Easily over 50%.
I believe you. Freeform characters can be pretty strange. They're not what I'd call average however. I don't see many healers at all in most of my PUG and those that I do see half don't even bother healing.
Look at the numbers sometime, there are 30 or 40 queued for Dockside dustup, 3 or 4 for Trainstopping. Dockside Dustup is quicker, easier, and very straight forward and thus everyone wants to play it.
The key word there should be "Possible", if you've failed on the opening cinematic then the game is not worth playing because failure has been predetermined. If on the other hand failure rests in the hands of the players then a mission is worth running even if your odds are greatly reduced by the party makeup.
Team composition is something that's usually out of the player's hands, it's something that is usually controlled by the mysterious queuing system. Assuming the average player is a design philosophy that designers usually take into consideration when building levels and missions. You want to see good design check out Portal. Bad design is all over the place. The two things are not the same but they're also two things that are usually out of the player's control. Asking for a designer to take them into consideration is about all I can do.
Yeah .. i also had very high fail rates the last days on Nemesis Alerts. Seems the players
are getting more gimpy from day to day :redface:
I'm back to normal leveling, but just wanted to refresh my Exp Bonus from time to time,
and really there was even a Guy Sweetland Dockside where only 1-2 seconds were left,
and Nemesis really was 50/50 the last days, while 2 weeks ago i made 30 runs and had
only 1 fail.
You stated that the content should be equally challenging for a new player as it is for a veteran. Since the veteran has the advantage of skill developed over time that would mean that the veteran's skill would have to be negated, rendered inapplicable to the content.
You seem confused by the idea that in order for new players to face the same degree of challenge that veterans are exposed to (as you suggest), every single bit of advantage that is gained through experience, practice, and perseverance must be eliminated from the encounter/game.
This would mean preventing the veteran from using his experience to prioritize targets better, perhaps by randomizing his attacks so that he doesnt get to choose the best possible target, because the new player won't have that option.
It would mean that all players would have to play the same exact build because otherwise the veteran's knowledge of game mechanics and synergies would allow him to pick the better build/AT and so have an advantage over the new player.
and so on.
Again, in order for a new player to be challenged the same as a veteran he would have to be a veteran (by definition not possible if he is a new player) or all advantages inherent in knowing how to play the game would have to be removed so that veterans played as if they were new to the game.
Horrible idea.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
The average player is pretty bad. The consequences for dying are so minor they don't resonate with the majority of the player base. You can only do so much without removing any sense of challenge at all.
The worst thing I've seen alerts bring is making it easier for players to hit 40 without learning much if anything while getting there.
That's what I like about DCUO and City of Heroes
City of Heroes, you'd get "debt" (I assume that's still true). If you die too many times, it becomes a PitA to continue leveling up. So you try pretty hard not to die.
DCUO, your gear gets damaged and eventually falls apart. You can repair... but those repair jobs can get EXPENSIVE. If your team stinks and you face-roll a Raid then it can easily wipe you out. Forcing you to leave and do trash missions to get your money back just so you can fix your gear. Not to mention all Raid bosses had lock-outs (including the mini bosses).
Here... you lose a star. So maybe 1% damage or something. And they only recently started adding lock-outs. So there's little incentive to become a GOOD player... so most people just button mash.
What I'm saying is the mission should be designed so that both players feel they're useful, the new player blasts things and the veteran player makes up the gap. On missions like Dockside dustup you can take a level 6 or two in the group and still beat the villain in time. If you want to continue misinterpreting what I'm saying to prop up your own position power to you but don't expect me to respond to you anymore. I have no problem with you disagreeing, I think some of these missions need to be tinkered with, you obviously don't, but please don't take what I'm saying to illogical extremes. That's called a Straw man argument and it makes you look foolish. Mind you it's not as bad as Godwin's law.
It's sad that happens so often that it's become my mentality, but when there's no real punishment for defeats, people have little incentive to learn as I mentioned previously.
Initially I wanted them to be easier myself, but considering the lack of skill I see at various levels, watering it down further just does everyone a disservice.
The sad part is these guys do a large portion of their leveling on Alerts, eventually end up doing Gravitar and altogether get the impression the game is badly designed and they just wasted time leveling a character in it. While this impression IS partially accurate, most of the really crappy design is either exclusive to or amplified by alerts. The sidekicking system changes are a good example of this.
Thing is, no amount of penalty or anything will change this, because the problem isn't just in the players. Heck, arguably you can't even blame the players, most people don't play games like it's a job. In fact, the idea that a statistical death penalty is a good idea is the mark of a bad designer, and someone who shouldn't even be involved in game making to begin with.
It's an inverse of what you're trying to achieve essentially, and most gamers have the most predictable reaction to it: Lash out at other people if they personally are good enough they aren't at fault, or quit the game if they don't have the time or effort to put up with that and the learning curve. It is no coincidence that MOBAs and MMOs with harsh penalties for failing tend to have some of the most hateful communities, one dumbass can rain righteous rage down on himself when he manages to singlehandedly bring down his whole team because he didn't RTFM in a game that requires you to.
So more or less, what these people want, is a game that requires you to read a ******n book on how to play it, and punishes you if you don't. If you want to talk about people with unrealistic expectations, you've got it right there. That is not going to be your average player who'd much rather just move on to another game.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
The majority of MMOs dictate otherwise, particularly the ones that make serious money.
I don't recall ever reading the manual on Super Mario Bros for my nintendo when I was a youngin - still ended up beating that, and that takes more skill and effort than most of what I do in CO now many years later. I agree there's a major learning curve with MMOs - HOWEVER, the basics are extremely simple. Most of the time I've spent "learning" in this game involved comprehending "cryptic math" and optimizing stats when taking diminishing returns into account.
But really saying people don't bother with "manuals" and reference material... that has little basis in fact. I can't recall any modern fighting game that learning "moves" weren't necessary. And people did learn, and those games have gone on to make lots of money - Street fighter has inspired two (mediocre) movies, the Mortal Kombat franchise had 2 or three. Both have changed a lot since the ones I played when I was growing up, but wouldn't still be around today if "your average player who'd much rather just move on to another game" was the case.
But really Xao, I've got plenty of frustrations and criticisms for Cryptic, but as vehement as your posts are, why haven't you just moved onto another game so you too could avoid RTFM or you know, all the actually legitimate problems with CO?
Interesting points!
That's really been their challenge. In other MMOs, debt xp is usually enough to get players to think twice if their actions get him/herself killed. Superhero MMOs are typically of a more casual nature and people are far less likely to be familiar with the usual trinity of tanking/healing/dps.
They removed elite scaling on loot because it wasn't adding "real difficulty" according to at least one of the devs.
They had gravitar hit for over 80k to create "difficulty" for her.
They've even added icons and changed titles for each of the roles to help clarify things.
But if I had never played an MMO, and this was my first taste of one, being a superhero and getting tossed around in alerts at the early levels would either turn me off the game or motivate me to learn how to overcome it. They really need to gate the alerts so that players actually need to play the game at the early levels and experience their character before allowing them to throw themselves upon alert mobs.
It seemed early on we were on opposite sides of the coin but now I think we're actually on the same page. We have the same opinions we've just drawn different conclusions. Perhaps you had assumed that I wanted missions like trainstopping altered for my direct benefit whereas I was thinking if the redesign would help the team. The goons on some of the missions are still a bit beefy for my liking but if everyone on the team knew what to do it wouldn't be a problem.
While the tutorial has improved a ton since I started, it still is pretty basic. The added videos in the PH help explain concepts, but I think they fall upon deaf ears (or blind eyes in that case).
Hmm... I wonder if the "____ Alert!" splash could be added to to state the exact objective of the particular alert. For instance, the recruiting drive splash could simply say "Victory condition: Defeat Kevin Poe", while the two minute drill would say "Victory condition: Defeat Kevin Poe and the Purple Gang members near him."
A lot of confusion arises when someone thinks they must clear all enemies when only the boss or the boss and his immediate group, are required. In a situation with such a short time span, being clear about what is or is not needed is key...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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I think that this is one of those, "logical fallacies."
There is nothing to say that these aren't less popular because others are more fun, rewarding, quicker, whatever. It doesn't follow that unpopular inherently means unenjoyable.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
The two I would consider the least likely smashes to succeed are Valerian and Baron.
Baron is a since if you can keep him CC'd and prevent the dolls from doing massive damage. However, you can't guarantee someone having CC in a pug.
Valerian can be rough regardless, as she'll usually defeat at least one person caught unaware when she pops her little "circle of death".
Baron's voodoo block hit an sg mate in pyramid for over 300k after mitigation over (455k before it).
I've one shot myself against psimon for over 70k against his reflection shield.