I want a key that freezes everyone UNTIL they talk. Some of these folks ignore any attempt at strategizing. Type any instructions or comments you want. They probably dont even have their chat windows open.
One issue I've found - and one that I didn't even realize was happening for a while - was that the chat window stopped scrolling as I entered the Alert. So someone might have been talking, I just never saw anything until later. Mostly I try to follow others' lead, so it works out, but if I ever take Steely Dan into the Heist, I'm going to have to remember to scroll the window and talk first - he's a Behemoth, so I have to charge headlong into things.
I prefer to take out all the mobs on the way in, because that way if I drop before the final battle I can just respawn at the door and make my way back down without worrying about somebody jumping me en route. I have, however, been in a couple of PUGs that were just charging through the whole thing as fast as they could, avoiding all side fights on the way.
With the introduction of a lockout in this alert, I think they should have stepped up the reward to reflect the "difficulty". Maybe make this alert 1000 questionite reward. But a lockout should be considered an increase in difficulty since we're all used to zerging down bosses.
I mean if they thought about it, they probably could have introduced the idea of buying "recovery" devices from the C-store. Accept the Harmon Labs quest unlocks a perk: Have a free recovery pill on us. The last boss fight is tough! Use this if you perish. If you burn through it, you can buy more with your Cryptic points or Zen here at blah blah... I mean, some players enjoy being handheld right into the store. And it gives players an extra alert. Play well and you can just keep this freebie.
I prefer to take out all the mobs on the way in, because that way if I drop before the final battle I can just respawn at the door and make my way back down without worrying about somebody jumping me en route. I have, however, been in a couple of PUGs that were just charging through the whole thing as fast as they could, avoiding all side fights on the way.
This is the biggest issue for me. If I go down once with a group like that, I'll probably go down at least twice more before I can catch up with the rest of the group. Meanwhile, they're fighting and I'm missing all the action (and again see my earlier account of my Andrith Ruins run).
One issue I've found - and one that I didn't even realize was happening for a while - was that the chat window stopped scrolling as I entered the Alert. So someone might have been talking, I just never saw anything until later. Mostly I try to follow others' lead, so it works out, but if I ever take Steely Dan into the Heist, I'm going to have to remember to scroll the window and talk first - he's a Behemoth, so I have to charge headlong into things.
I prefer to take out all the mobs on the way in, because that way if I drop before the final battle I can just respawn at the door and make my way back down without worrying about somebody jumping me en route. I have, however, been in a couple of PUGs that were just charging through the whole thing as fast as they could, avoiding all side fights on the way.
That chat thing has been an issue for awhile now. It has become second nature for to scroll down at the beginning. Communication is key, as it is for any game. Thats why I try to just run it in premades with people I have done it with before so I know we all know the fight and what to do.
One issue I've found - and one that I didn't even realize was happening for a while - was that the chat window stopped scrolling as I entered the Alert. So someone might have been talking, I just never saw anything until later. Mostly I try to follow others' lead, so it works out, but if I ever take Steely Dan into the Heist, I'm going to have to remember to scroll the window and talk first - he's a Behemoth, so I have to charge headlong into things.
I just realized that I've been having the same trouble; I just didn't recognize it from your description (my problem in that, not yours). Just hit your Enter twice in succession, and it'll go to the bottom and start scrolling again,
One issue I've found - and one that I didn't even realize was happening for a while - was that the chat window stopped scrolling as I entered the Alert. So someone might have been talking, I just never saw anything until later. Mostly I try to follow others' lead, so it works out, but if I ever take Steely Dan into the Heist, I'm going to have to remember to scroll the window and talk first - he's a Behemoth, so I have to charge headlong into things.
I prefer to take out all the mobs on the way in, because that way if I drop before the final battle I can just respawn at the door and make my way back down without worrying about somebody jumping me en route. I have, however, been in a couple of PUGs that were just charging through the whole thing as fast as they could, avoiding all side fights on the way.
Yeah, I've had that happen too.
Players who are farming or have done Heist more than once like to hotdog through and only engage necessary mobs. I don't like leaving anything that might be a threat behind. Always scan the corners any eliminate all tangos. Scorched earth.
Incidentally, had a good team last night. When everyone communicates and stays in the fight its great.
I want a key that freezes everyone UNTIL they talk. Some of these folks ignore any attempt at strategizing. Type any instructions or comments you want. They probably dont even have their chat windows open.
I always have a strategy... I just don't feel that it really needs to be explained; I prefer show over tell.
People see pretty quickly that my strategy is to aggro everything in sight, and keep the entire room shooting at me while the rest of the party slaps them in the back of the head.
Maybe I'm just spoiled on the concept of needing a strategy, since every group I'm in has a tank... or maybe I just really like how it looks to have a whole room full of guys shooting at me
Players who are farming or have done Heist more than once like to hotdog through and only engage necessary mobs. I don't like leaving anything that might be a threat behind. Always scan the corners any eliminate all tangos. Scorched earth.
Incidentally, had a good team last night. When everyone communicates and stays in the fight its great.
Dream Star, I proclaim you Righteous.
I don't clear em all because they're really just meant to be a time sink. Considering how often you need to do it for costume drops and each chance is the potential for a disastrous team, getting through each one as quickly as possible is the logical choice for me.
Communication is nice - but its even better when people know to fill their role without having to say a word.
I always have a strategy... I just don't feel that it really needs to be explained; I prefer show over tell.
People see pretty quickly that my strategy is to aggro everything in sight, and keep the entire room shooting at me while the rest of the party slaps them in the back of the head.
Maybe I'm just spoiled on the concept of needing a strategy, since every group I'm in has a tank... or maybe I just really like how it looks to have a whole room full of guys shooting at me
Sure. It's the MMO way. We like being the lone Space Marine under a mountain of Genestealers yelling for a video feed because we dont want any of them to get away.
Alerts are all PUG though. Never know who or what you will get for a team, specially when the mission is neither gated nor team queue capable (hint hint Cryptic. Please?). Discussing basics (does anyone have a Rez?) ALWAYS helps.
Get a group of new low level players and the lead from the front technique falls apart. You may find you're up front leadership becomes a lone walk with dead allies behind because they couldn't stay alive without you. And of course, there is also the player that just can't help aggro everything and sinks the team because they know all. You know the kine.
Sure. It's the MMO way. We like being the lone Space Marine under a mountain of Genestealers yelling for a video feed because we dont want any of them to get away.
Alerts are all PUG though. Never know who or what you will get for a team, specially when the mission is neither gated nor team queue capable (hint hint Cryptic. Please?). Discussing basics (does anyone have a Rez?) ALWAYS helps.
Get a group of new low level players and the lead from the front technique falls apart. You may find you're up front leadership becomes a lone walk with dead allies behind because they couldn't stay alive without you. And of course, there is also the player that just can't help aggro everything and sinks the team because they know all. You know the kine.
You're right, leading from the front doesn't work very effectively - because in reality for it to work, the players need to all be competent. I don't waste breathe trying to explain techniques and strat because too often people simply took offense and couldn't swallow some pride to see how they could improve. Now if I pug I just take something that can handle the mission as if I was doing it solo, since I never know if that will be the case.
I don't care how good a tank or healer you are, you can only do so much for players that don't learn. One thing I particularly watch out for is saving people who have bad habits; Like running in the middle of a large group on a squishy avenger with no AD and expecting the healer to keep you up is bad juju unless you've got no other choice (all squishy team).
Something not from a sockpuppet but from a experienced beta tester here..
Lock outs without timers have and always will punish team play in pugs the revive mechanic is broken
even in a team REs works if you have a healer in team and u are not on a patch of fire..
IF you died due to WARLORDS Secondary Explosion from a Piercing round you are toast and can no longer do anything to help. only advantage to Warlord over Gravi is he has 10% of her HP.
The main problem is he cancels you travel powers for entire battle that's plain wrong..
He slows you and forces you to attack him with his advantages .. so you cant even block
The Commandos with Warlord still have OP stealth and mob proximity.. You cant bull in china shop here
you cant expect people to follow and by-pass mobs after you aggro a whole room and have 8 Commandos
swarming untargetable.. to the room behind you ..to exploit you..
Whats wrong with Villains henchmen Commanders have 16k hp.. more then 3 of heroes team all by there self.. their res to KB and KB spam is annoying to Silvers w/o an old stock pile of Force shields and other items Munitions could craft ... to cover your powers during cooldowns..
LAst three runs people started dropping in room 1 .. the terrain blocks make it hard but manageable but you have to stay together and clear a sector completely and use plenty of AOE to catch those sneaking u dont see. its hard to set proper signals and aura circles here almost impossible to bull rush leap barricades like no other lair . taking many options away..
SG w set teams balanced is ideal..
PUGS you don't get the chance to join a team to test the broken revive mechanic cause people rush to farm this instead of keeping supporting groups together you spend first room reading style and hope they don't aggro the bottom of elevator until you can set up.
Warlords room too small for fire patches making stand off fighting difficult without going to top rail areas
he's changed somehow he ignores more aggro and forces more mixed groups to move while he ignores your armour and keeps you from blocking more ..
LVL 40 Munitions former GOLD hunderds of days with gear you cant get here anymore and cant solo him
team pets fry your heals are in joint cooldown so u have to use the PA armour not spec'd loose way too much spec'd END immediatly to tank.. I could tank Grond T-rek [giant robo dino] on MI get melt'd here tryign it
Gravi is nice cause you dotn losoe travels and if you keep moving and can res a teammate odds improve pets decoy ok die so fast its not funny same w lvl 41 pets in hArmon.. hyhenaswine soviet sub zombie and gnashers tested porrly here..
I don't know what all the fuss is about with this alert. Sure, you get a bad group and you fail the alert. No different than the rest of em. Heck I did this with a tank that thought just standing in front of the mobs was enough to block their attacks against others :eek:
.
I think people are hating on the:
Lockout mechanic, which is becoming "the norm" with Champions Online
The fire patch: if one kills you it stays on top of you preventing a rez, and you go back to #1
How some players just want to blast through the mission and only kill SOME of the mobs, making it hard for a dead team member to rejoin the group before the boss
I actually like the Harmon alert. The problem is most people in this game do not know how to work as a team. Everyone wants to be the damage dealer, even some tanks that I see in the alert that will not switch to tank mode. I hate to tell you this, you're a meat shield to help your teammates.
As far as the lockout, can't say I like it too much but there needs to be some consequence for dying. The way the game is now you recover and act like it didn't happen. With the current gameplay why should you take a self-rez or wait for one. If they had debt like CoH healers and rezers would be more in demand. Not to mention people would play more carefully.
I don't mind this alert, but my goodness sake, tone down the knockback. We don't need every enemy having a grenade or a shotgun. Also, disperse the mobs a bit. Too many with this much knockback.
Agreed,Harmon Labs has WAY too many KB from the mobs,I got KBed from one into another mob,aggro'ing them,which the mob of shadow army soldiers then proceeded to kill my toon,and go for the rest of the team,which makes the alert VERY hard,and also please give us a bit of warning as to when warlord is doing to shoot his napalm fire patch at us.
IMO, shotguns aren't really a weapon that some paramilitary soldiers would use - SMGs and ARs seem more their speed. I could even accept the grenades, but mobs make no differentiation between using a grenade to flush you out or for suppression - they just throw them at you willy-nilly.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
It's still garbage. I played it once before and vowed to never play it again. I tried it again now that it's back and it feels even worse then I remember. Too many mobs, too much knock back, and lock out. It's without a doubt the worst of the special alerts. The rewards just don't balance out the headaches of running this mission.
You get a warning about the napalm patch. It's not like he's gonna yell: 'I love the smell of napalm in the morning!!'
Rewards? After dozens of runs and not a single costume piece, it just makes you want to do it over and over and over again and again....
And for the most, it being The Level 30 mission...
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Part of the issue w/ the Harmon Labs Alert, when compared to the Hi-Pan one, is that you don't get the sense of Warlord "running" the show, other than his easily missable lines at the beginning. It's also too long - they could have had the starting area, the hallway, then the little lab before Warlord's room. The lockout needs to go and/or the fire patches need to be toned down. Warlord should drop a "Warlord chest" which gives questionite or his costume pieces.
All of the special alerts should be updated similarly.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
They should eliminate them and integrate them into the game at large.
Pre-alert the farm was SL Elite, Freon.
Alerts seem to be mostly recycled content with added incentives to entice people to farm them repeatedly for this illusion of reward.
I still do them, illusion or not - but with pvp all but dead, and the pugging often being "less than plesant" I really see nothing else left for me since I don't RP.
I don't even bother pugging this without running something that can complete it solo. I expect the rest of the team to wipe at the end, and often enough they do it several times before that.
It's not very fun to feel "forced" into playing a certain way or risk high chances of failure. The rewards and general drop rate are generally abysmal enough as is.
Part of the issue w/ the Harmon Labs Alert, when compared to the Hi-Pan one, is that you don't get the sense of Warlord "running" the show, other than his easily missable lines at the beginning. It's also too long - they could have had the starting area, the hallway, then the little lab before Warlord's room. The lockout needs to go and/or the fire patches need to be toned down. Warlord should drop a "Warlord chest" which gives questionite or his costume pieces.
All of the special alerts should be updated similarly.
Part of the issue w/ the Harmon Labs Alert, when compared to the Hi-Pan one, is that you don't get the sense of Warlord "running" the show, other than his easily missable lines at the beginning. It's also too long - they could have had the starting area, the hallway, then the little lab before Warlord's room. The lockout needs to go and/or the fire patches need to be toned down. Warlord should drop a "Warlord chest" which gives questionite or his costume pieces.
All of the special alerts should be updated similarly.
Also agreed ^^^
Hi-pan set the bar, proof that the dev's are getting better at this. Now they need to update the rest to the same level.
These are "Special Alerts" we as players should be looking forward to them. Not dreading the return of bad ones that will sit unused for weeks.
Hi-pan set the bar, proof that the dev's are getting better at this. Now they need to update the rest to the same level.
These are "Special Alerts" we as players should be looking forward to them. Not dreading the return of bad ones that will sit unused for weeks.
See, with the exception of KB spam, I think that the Harmon Labs alert is vastly superior to Hi-Pan.
In Harmon Labs I feel like I am participating in a superhero story. Goons set up behind barricades in preparation for the superhero counterattack that they know is coming. Boss waiting at the center of it all, communicating with his teams.
In Hi-Pan I mostly wonder...
why is there a glowing yin/yang symbol on the ground.
Why does it do what it does ?
Why does ringing this bell stop the celestial dragon from breathing ?
Why cant the gadgeteer rig something to ring the bell automatically every few seconds ?
Why cant we attack the dragon ? Why does Hi-Pan essentially say (paraphrased) "with the power of the Dragon's Eye I will be stoppable !" ?
Why do minions that are knocked off the path respawn behind you so that if a member of your team is defeated he may have to face entire group spawns on his own ?
Why do my TPs not work ?
Why does that sorceress need to keep the portal open instead of helping defeat the bad guy ?
What portal ?
When she says, "back to our world," what is she talking about ?
TLDR: I come out of the Harmon Labs alert feeling like I just finished a comic book story. I come out of the Hi-Pan alert feeling like I just participated in a random collection of game elements that dont make a lot of sense within the context of the alert itself.
Why is warlord in a room beyond the prototypes...if he was after the prototypes?
Why are the prototypes even available if he already got beyond that point?
Why do you need to blast a hole to get to warlord if he already got that far to begin with?
Why are travel powers shut off in the final room?
Why does the fire burn forever even on a metal floor without any additional fuel?
Why are we locked out?
Why does warlord never leave his spot?
The point is, if you look for absurdity in a super hero game, you're more then likely going to find it.
Hi-pans mechanics, are pretty easy to understand. When in doubt avoid anything on the ground. Warlord on the other hand is more problematic. Its actually very easy to have him drop a flame patch at his feet pretty much making all melee useless. The recommended solution to avoid that problem is far more cryptic and harder to understand.
And there is no doubt that the reward mechanic in Hi-pan feels better. You always get something even if its just a tiny bit of Q. With warlord you don't even get enough pocket change for coffee.
Agreed with bioshrike and sockmunkey. Harmon Labs could be great if it were reworked just a little bit with more consistent rewards (especially rewards appropriate to the amount of work), less of the "Hey, I heard you like knockback so I'm going to knockback you into this other mob of guys with knockback" encounters and an actual time limit on those fire patches. Hi-Pan's alert is actually fun and requires some kind of tactics (tank to keep his aggro, be aware of the area death yin-yang thing, ranged toon ready at the bell, knock him down before time runs out). Warlord has something to beat everybody, even people who can self-rez or people self-rezzing others (ever rezzed in one of those fire patches? Here's a hint: don't). The greatest healer power becomes a huge liability or impossible to use if Warlord's going to build a funeral pyre on top of everyone he knocks out.
Why cant we attack the dragon ? Why does Hi-Pan essentially say (paraphrased) "with the power of the Dragon's Eye I will be stoppable !" ?
Really? You don't know what "All but unstoppable" means? And you use that as a bullet point in your argument?
Let me counter what you said:
1. It is not unusual for heroes to have to journey to another realm to fight some big bad.
2. The Yin-yang is a very well known symbol in Asian mysticism/culture. I'm not an expert, but it has to do with the interconnectivity between good, evil, and how there's a little of each in the other.
3. As far as a techie person putting an "auto-ringer" on the bell, well there are a lot of "thinking outside the box" type of things that would be great to have in the game, but they just can't think of everything. I could use the same argument to ask why my super strength characters can simply knock another passageway open for the teammates that got locked out, or why my techie heroes can't hack the security system to bring down the lockout field and travel power suppressors.
Either way, I have no problem with the Harmon Alert concept-wise - it just needs a little touching up to bring it in-line w/ the newest Alert - wouldn't you rather a special drop box that contains Q or costume pieces, instead of just a tiny amount of resources.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The knockbacks combined with the severity of the fire are a problem. Players get knocked into the fire, and burn to death without being able to block or move.
This can be countered by positioning yourself so there isn't a fire behind you.
The longevity of the fire patches is a problem. I can't rez someone who will burn to death the moment they rez.
This can be countered by not dying in the fire.
Oh, and the flamethrower hurts.
This can be countered by blocking.
Personally I don't mind the difficulty. The problem isn't the difficulty. The problem is that players in these alerts often don't know how to play the game.
The knockbacks combined with the severity of the fire are a problem. Players get knocked into the fire, and burn to death without being able to block or move.
This can be countered by positioning yourself so there isn't a fire behind you.
The longevity of the fire patches is a problem. I can't rez someone who will burn to death the moment they rez.
This can be countered by not dying in the fire.
I would agree with you if it were not for Warlord's knockback that is followed up immediately by him launching a fire patch. Can't position yourself to avoid a fire patch that's not there. My reflexes are twitchy enough to get me out of it a second or two after it ignites, but not everybody has the kb recovery of a 400+ Str toon. The other problem is that eventually the room fills with those fire patches no matter how fast you move. So after about ten or fifteen minutes "not dying in the fire" becomes less common sense and more damn near impossible.
Why is warlord in a room beyond the prototypes...if he was after the prototypes?
he is inside one of the most advanced labs, of one of the greatest inventors, in the world. Why wouldnt he be looking to see what else is available ?
Why are the prototypes even available if he already got beyond that point?
Because he hasnt left with them yet.
Why do you need to blast a hole to get to warlord if he already got that far to begin with?
good question. Did he close the door behind himself perhaps ?
Why are travel powers shut off in the final room?
LoL, never even noticed this. I use my TP to enter the room and then dont use it (for e-management purposes) after. I assumed that since my TP was on in the room at the time that I fire the first shot, it was still available throughout the fight. How long into the fight do they turn off ?
Why does the fire burn forever even on a metal floor without any additional fuel?
All metals are flammable
Why are we locked out?
Honestly I would prefer lock outs, perhaps soft lockouts, for all boss fights.
Why does warlord never leave his spot?
Bad tactics. Perhaps so that he can flood the area around himself with fire patches making melee opponents less dangerous to him. Perhaps for the same reason that Hi Pan runs away from the Dragons Breath aoe and the Symbol.
The point is, if you look for absurdity in a super hero game, you're more then likely going to find it.
Thats just it, I dont look for them. If the scenario makes apoint of hitting me over the head with them so hard, so early, and so often that the game becomes more of a matter of boss mechanics than anything else...it kills immersion for me.
It wouldnt be hard to make the Hi-Pan alert work better for me in that regard, but some effort would need to be put into developing it beyond.."heres some random elements that make little or no sense...or completely contradict existing lore/knowledge based elements, but are more like other MMO boss fight mechanics."
Hi-pans mechanics, are pretty easy to understand. When in doubt avoid anything on the ground. Warlord on the other hand is more problematic.
No offense but how is it easier to understand that Yin is harmful than that fire is ? Yin is not a harmful element in its source philosophies, and yet fire is physically harmful.
Its actually very easy to have him drop a flame patch at his feet pretty much making all melee useless. The recommended solution to avoid that problem is far more cryptic and harder to understand.
And there is no doubt that the reward mechanic in Hi-pan feels better. You always get something even if its just a tiny bit of Q. With warlord you don't even get enough pocket change for coffee.
Ive not always received rewards for Hi-Pan, not even Questionite. I scaled back on doing the alert for that reason. I always get tokens at least in Harmon Labs.
Perhaps if they had not released Hi-Pan bugged so that the rewards didnt even occur (the first dozen or so times I did Hi-Pan) my opinion of its rewards might be different. But the fact is, Ive done Harmon labs a fraction as many times as I have done Hi-Pan, and have received many times as much i the way of rewards from Harmon as Hi-Pan. Getting nothing does not feel better than getting something I can use.
The more I play this alert, the more I try to figure out how Warlord got in there.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
The more I play this alert, the more I try to figure out how Warlord got in there.
That big lug has no clear entrance, tho one could possibly guess the floor he's standing on is actually an elevator - but even then that's still a stretch.
All in all, I don't find warlord enjoyable in the least, it makes little sense and I find myself carrying the team far more often than should be necessary. It doesn't help to see rest of the team wipe and when you check your reward its 1 until token.
The more I play this alert, the more I try to figure out how Warlord got in there.
Warlord has the power of fairy teleportation:rolleyes:..how else did he get through what seems like 3 solid walls without leaving a scratch..
My only hitch with this alert is the mobs knock back abilities. Now I've been hit by alot of knock back attacks including frag grenades and even with 10str on my Mind AT I have never been hit that far. Ever. It's like a ranged Roomsweeper! If this was toned down or heck better yet REMOVED from mobs it would make it a nicer alert to deal with, not only for sustained fighting without feeling like a ragdoll 85% of the time. Also healing would be alot better and easier so people would die less..
Heck, I could even live with the lockout, if only the person in the other room who tells you about the power armor would mention something about the security force field that's currently offline, but could come back on at any moment. But the napalm patches need a lifespan (because if that fire's hot enough to burn the steel, the room should be running short of oxygen much more quickly than it is), and the KB on the mobs is seriously exaggerated. I'm a superhero, not a volleyball!
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
My biggest complaint about this alert is it's length. The time commitment vs. the reward received is not very good. He should at least drop some questionite.
Because of its length, and the risk of the PUG lottery, I find myself trying to decide after the first room whether or not this is a good enough group to go the distance. If there's an obvious leech, toons named something like "Super men" or "Battmann", or just too many deaths, I tend to exit after the first room.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
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I wouldn't mind taking another swing at Warlord but last time I played I had two people drop out right at the start. I can't say I blame them when we had an archery idiot launching arrows at everyone and agroing multiple groups.
The mission is too long for the rewards given. The devices do return fairly good cash but I'd prefer a box with a possible costume drop in it instead. Also there are way too many mobs. The battle to get to Warlord is much longer then the actual battle with the boss. Knock Back and Lock out aside there are just too many goons in this mission. I tend to think that Warlord must need to make million dollar heists just to make salary for the army of goons he's brought with him.
As if Harmon Catalyst drops as super rare here, ill do Harmon Labs like hell (maybe everyday just this for while) but... after got every costume parts and core, Useless box and Unity Recognition has no meaning to do this.
Had a really great team to farm Warlord, and perhaps out of a dozen runs, one person had the Deplete Uranium Core drop. Is his loot table just that unforgiving?
Also, as tank, the fire patches aren't so bad. Just move back as far as you can when the tells come up for his KB/Firepatch combo.
Comments
I prefer to take out all the mobs on the way in, because that way if I drop before the final battle I can just respawn at the door and make my way back down without worrying about somebody jumping me en route. I have, however, been in a couple of PUGs that were just charging through the whole thing as fast as they could, avoiding all side fights on the way.
I mean if they thought about it, they probably could have introduced the idea of buying "recovery" devices from the C-store. Accept the Harmon Labs quest unlocks a perk: Have a free recovery pill on us. The last boss fight is tough! Use this if you perish. If you burn through it, you can buy more with your Cryptic points or Zen here at blah blah... I mean, some players enjoy being handheld right into the store. And it gives players an extra alert. Play well and you can just keep this freebie.
This is the biggest issue for me. If I go down once with a group like that, I'll probably go down at least twice more before I can catch up with the rest of the group. Meanwhile, they're fighting and I'm missing all the action (and again see my earlier account of my Andrith Ruins run).
That chat thing has been an issue for awhile now. It has become second nature for to scroll down at the beginning. Communication is key, as it is for any game. Thats why I try to just run it in premades with people I have done it with before so I know we all know the fight and what to do.
I just realized that I've been having the same trouble; I just didn't recognize it from your description (my problem in that, not yours). Just hit your Enter twice in succession, and it'll go to the bottom and start scrolling again,
Yeah, I've had that happen too.
Players who are farming or have done Heist more than once like to hotdog through and only engage necessary mobs. I don't like leaving anything that might be a threat behind. Always scan the corners any eliminate all tangos. Scorched earth.
Incidentally, had a good team last night. When everyone communicates and stays in the fight its great.
Dream Star, I proclaim you Righteous.
I always have a strategy... I just don't feel that it really needs to be explained; I prefer show over tell.
People see pretty quickly that my strategy is to aggro everything in sight, and keep the entire room shooting at me while the rest of the party slaps them in the back of the head.
Maybe I'm just spoiled on the concept of needing a strategy, since every group I'm in has a tank... or maybe I just really like how it looks to have a whole room full of guys shooting at me
I don't clear em all because they're really just meant to be a time sink. Considering how often you need to do it for costume drops and each chance is the potential for a disastrous team, getting through each one as quickly as possible is the logical choice for me.
Communication is nice - but its even better when people know to fill their role without having to say a word.
Sure. It's the MMO way. We like being the lone Space Marine under a mountain of Genestealers yelling for a video feed because we dont want any of them to get away.
Alerts are all PUG though. Never know who or what you will get for a team, specially when the mission is neither gated nor team queue capable (hint hint Cryptic. Please?). Discussing basics (does anyone have a Rez?) ALWAYS helps.
Get a group of new low level players and the lead from the front technique falls apart. You may find you're up front leadership becomes a lone walk with dead allies behind because they couldn't stay alive without you. And of course, there is also the player that just can't help aggro everything and sinks the team because they know all. You know the kine.
You're right, leading from the front doesn't work very effectively - because in reality for it to work, the players need to all be competent. I don't waste breathe trying to explain techniques and strat because too often people simply took offense and couldn't swallow some pride to see how they could improve. Now if I pug I just take something that can handle the mission as if I was doing it solo, since I never know if that will be the case.
I don't care how good a tank or healer you are, you can only do so much for players that don't learn. One thing I particularly watch out for is saving people who have bad habits; Like running in the middle of a large group on a squishy avenger with no AD and expecting the healer to keep you up is bad juju unless you've got no other choice (all squishy team).
Lock outs without timers have and always will punish team play in pugs the revive mechanic is broken
even in a team REs works if you have a healer in team and u are not on a patch of fire..
IF you died due to WARLORDS Secondary Explosion from a Piercing round you are toast and can no longer do anything to help. only advantage to Warlord over Gravi is he has 10% of her HP.
The main problem is he cancels you travel powers for entire battle that's plain wrong..
He slows you and forces you to attack him with his advantages .. so you cant even block
The Commandos with Warlord still have OP stealth and mob proximity.. You cant bull in china shop here
you cant expect people to follow and by-pass mobs after you aggro a whole room and have 8 Commandos
swarming untargetable.. to the room behind you ..to exploit you..
Whats wrong with Villains henchmen Commanders have 16k hp.. more then 3 of heroes team all by there self.. their res to KB and KB spam is annoying to Silvers w/o an old stock pile of Force shields and other items Munitions could craft ... to cover your powers during cooldowns..
LAst three runs people started dropping in room 1 .. the terrain blocks make it hard but manageable but you have to stay together and clear a sector completely and use plenty of AOE to catch those sneaking u dont see. its hard to set proper signals and aura circles here almost impossible to bull rush leap barricades like no other lair . taking many options away..
SG w set teams balanced is ideal..
PUGS you don't get the chance to join a team to test the broken revive mechanic cause people rush to farm this instead of keeping supporting groups together you spend first room reading style and hope they don't aggro the bottom of elevator until you can set up.
Warlords room too small for fire patches making stand off fighting difficult without going to top rail areas
he's changed somehow he ignores more aggro and forces more mixed groups to move while he ignores your armour and keeps you from blocking more ..
LVL 40 Munitions former GOLD hunderds of days with gear you cant get here anymore and cant solo him
team pets fry your heals are in joint cooldown so u have to use the PA armour not spec'd loose way too much spec'd END immediatly to tank.. I could tank Grond T-rek [giant robo dino] on MI get melt'd here tryign it
Gravi is nice cause you dotn losoe travels and if you keep moving and can res a teammate odds improve pets decoy ok die so fast its not funny same w lvl 41 pets in hArmon.. hyhenaswine soviet sub zombie and gnashers tested porrly here..
When I destroy the overturned vending machines that block the elevator, I want them to bleeping stay destroyed.
Come on, it's Harmon Labs. Obviously all the vending machines are equipped with nanotech reconstruction devices.
Ya. And what do we do when they take our money and dispense no product?!
I think people are hating on the:
As far as the lockout, can't say I like it too much but there needs to be some consequence for dying. The way the game is now you recover and act like it didn't happen. With the current gameplay why should you take a self-rez or wait for one. If they had debt like CoH healers and rezers would be more in demand. Not to mention people would play more carefully.
"If it weren't for whiskey the Irish would rule the world"
That's full of win right there.
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Rewards? After dozens of runs and not a single costume piece, it just makes you want to do it over and over and over again and again....
And for the most, it being The Level 30 mission...
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This is nearly impossible to do.
But the KB spam could be toned down a little without hurting my feelings.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
They should eliminate them and integrate them into the game at large.
All of the special alerts should be updated similarly.
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Pre-alert the farm was SL Elite, Freon.
Alerts seem to be mostly recycled content with added incentives to entice people to farm them repeatedly for this illusion of reward.
I still do them, illusion or not - but with pvp all but dead, and the pugging often being "less than plesant" I really see nothing else left for me since I don't RP.
I don't even bother pugging this without running something that can complete it solo. I expect the rest of the team to wipe at the end, and often enough they do it several times before that.
It's not very fun to feel "forced" into playing a certain way or risk high chances of failure. The rewards and general drop rate are generally abysmal enough as is.
I agree with this
Also agreed ^^^
Hi-pan set the bar, proof that the dev's are getting better at this. Now they need to update the rest to the same level.
These are "Special Alerts" we as players should be looking forward to them. Not dreading the return of bad ones that will sit unused for weeks.
RIP Caine
See, with the exception of KB spam, I think that the Harmon Labs alert is vastly superior to Hi-Pan.
In Harmon Labs I feel like I am participating in a superhero story. Goons set up behind barricades in preparation for the superhero counterattack that they know is coming. Boss waiting at the center of it all, communicating with his teams.
In Hi-Pan I mostly wonder...
why is there a glowing yin/yang symbol on the ground.
Why does it do what it does ?
Why does ringing this bell stop the celestial dragon from breathing ?
Why cant the gadgeteer rig something to ring the bell automatically every few seconds ?
Why cant we attack the dragon ? Why does Hi-Pan essentially say (paraphrased) "with the power of the Dragon's Eye I will be stoppable !" ?
Why do minions that are knocked off the path respawn behind you so that if a member of your team is defeated he may have to face entire group spawns on his own ?
Why do my TPs not work ?
Why does that sorceress need to keep the portal open instead of helping defeat the bad guy ?
What portal ?
When she says, "back to our world," what is she talking about ?
TLDR: I come out of the Harmon Labs alert feeling like I just finished a comic book story. I come out of the Hi-Pan alert feeling like I just participated in a random collection of game elements that dont make a lot of sense within the context of the alert itself.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Why is warlord in a room beyond the prototypes...if he was after the prototypes?
Why are the prototypes even available if he already got beyond that point?
Why do you need to blast a hole to get to warlord if he already got that far to begin with?
Why are travel powers shut off in the final room?
Why does the fire burn forever even on a metal floor without any additional fuel?
Why are we locked out?
Why does warlord never leave his spot?
The point is, if you look for absurdity in a super hero game, you're more then likely going to find it.
Hi-pans mechanics, are pretty easy to understand. When in doubt avoid anything on the ground. Warlord on the other hand is more problematic. Its actually very easy to have him drop a flame patch at his feet pretty much making all melee useless. The recommended solution to avoid that problem is far more cryptic and harder to understand.
And there is no doubt that the reward mechanic in Hi-pan feels better. You always get something even if its just a tiny bit of Q. With warlord you don't even get enough pocket change for coffee.
RIP Caine
Really? You don't know what "All but unstoppable" means? And you use that as a bullet point in your argument?
Let me counter what you said:
1. It is not unusual for heroes to have to journey to another realm to fight some big bad.
2. The Yin-yang is a very well known symbol in Asian mysticism/culture. I'm not an expert, but it has to do with the interconnectivity between good, evil, and how there's a little of each in the other.
3. As far as a techie person putting an "auto-ringer" on the bell, well there are a lot of "thinking outside the box" type of things that would be great to have in the game, but they just can't think of everything. I could use the same argument to ask why my super strength characters can simply knock another passageway open for the teammates that got locked out, or why my techie heroes can't hack the security system to bring down the lockout field and travel power suppressors.
Either way, I have no problem with the Harmon Alert concept-wise - it just needs a little touching up to bring it in-line w/ the newest Alert - wouldn't you rather a special drop box that contains Q or costume pieces, instead of just a tiny amount of resources.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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This can be countered by positioning yourself so there isn't a fire behind you.
The longevity of the fire patches is a problem. I can't rez someone who will burn to death the moment they rez.
This can be countered by not dying in the fire.
Oh, and the flamethrower hurts.
This can be countered by blocking.
Personally I don't mind the difficulty. The problem isn't the difficulty. The problem is that players in these alerts often don't know how to play the game.
I would agree with you if it were not for Warlord's knockback that is followed up immediately by him launching a fire patch. Can't position yourself to avoid a fire patch that's not there. My reflexes are twitchy enough to get me out of it a second or two after it ignites, but not everybody has the kb recovery of a 400+ Str toon. The other problem is that eventually the room fills with those fire patches no matter how fast you move. So after about ten or fifteen minutes "not dying in the fire" becomes less common sense and more damn near impossible.
All a matter of opinion I guess.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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That big lug has no clear entrance, tho one could possibly guess the floor he's standing on is actually an elevator - but even then that's still a stretch.
All in all, I don't find warlord enjoyable in the least, it makes little sense and I find myself carrying the team far more often than should be necessary. It doesn't help to see rest of the team wipe and when you check your reward its 1 until token.
Warlord has the power of fairy teleportation:rolleyes:..how else did he get through what seems like 3 solid walls without leaving a scratch..
My only hitch with this alert is the mobs knock back abilities. Now I've been hit by alot of knock back attacks including frag grenades and even with 10str on my Mind AT I have never been hit that far. Ever. It's like a ranged Roomsweeper! If this was toned down or heck better yet REMOVED from mobs it would make it a nicer alert to deal with, not only for sustained fighting without feeling like a ragdoll 85% of the time. Also healing would be alot better and easier so people would die less..
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Because of its length, and the risk of the PUG lottery, I find myself trying to decide after the first room whether or not this is a good enough group to go the distance. If there's an obvious leech, toons named something like "Super men" or "Battmann", or just too many deaths, I tend to exit after the first room.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
The mission is too long for the rewards given. The devices do return fairly good cash but I'd prefer a box with a possible costume drop in it instead. Also there are way too many mobs. The battle to get to Warlord is much longer then the actual battle with the boss. Knock Back and Lock out aside there are just too many goons in this mission. I tend to think that Warlord must need to make million dollar heists just to make salary for the army of goons he's brought with him.
Gravitar and Hi-Pan was good in this point.
Also, as tank, the fire patches aren't so bad. Just move back as far as you can when the tells come up for his KB/Firepatch combo.