Being used to the whole system already i'm feeling kinda cheated... That the news link on the main site features a very nice looking lass and the actual article not so much.
What? Less QC and more techno lasses.
But to stay even slightly on topic.
It's not a bad system. Totally grindy of course, but my main use for it was topping off C-points rather than using it exclusively.
Example: New fluff item cost 480. Stipend is 400. With multiple characters doing dailies and whatnot, earning those extra 80 points does not take a long time. (Speaking from experience over in STO.)
I decided to go full retard and ask this question.
Are the AP and CS now only available once per day or they give Questionite only once per day???
I highly doubt they'd change these from 4 times a day down to 1. I'm just guessing the system is coded to only give you Q rewards once a day. When that resets, who knows.
Still, I'm surprised they're limiting you to once a day runs of these per instance. It's already long/boring enough to run the shortest one (I'd say SL, but I could be wrong). I can't imagine running it 4 times a day just to get most of your daily Q rewards. And then doing the same thing on your alts.
If your grinding for it, does the number of Questionite change when you solo or when you team? If it doesn't matter then, lots of soloing but if it does give you more? Well you'll see a spike in teams.
If your grinding for it, does the number of Questionite change when you solo or when you team? If it doesn't matter then, lots of soloing but if it does give you more? Well you'll see a spike in teams.
No. As of PTS right now, you'll get 1500 unrefined Q-ore as part of the quest reward for finishing a AP/CS. And 2000 for finishing the daily Alert roundup.
I found it extremely interesting that one of the hardest things to obtain in the game to date is going to be worth less in the Questionite store than the new stuffs. :rolleyes:
So i'd say you can do them once a day. But hey, now you don't have to repeat same thing over and over again.
In a day.
...
So those people who like running something multiple times per day being shafted out of their preferred playstyle is OK with you? I'm not one of them, but I'm sure there are people who enjoy multiple runs of certain content. What ticks me off is that to get up to the daily limit, I'm probably going to have to run content that I don't like, which means I either run content I don't enjoy or I don't make my daily limit, slowing down the grind that much more.
I liked it when I could run APs as often as I wanted in a given day. As crazy as it sounds the limitation placed on them directly resulted in my experimenting with playing only parts of them (and exploiting them) rather than simply playing them all the way through. If I had never been limited in number of playthroughs, I'd have played them through more often.
I liked it when I could run APs as often as I wanted in a given day. As crazy as it sounds the limitation placed on them directly resulted in my experimenting with playing only parts of them (and exploiting them) rather than simply playing them all the way through. If I had never been limited in number of playthroughs, I'd have played them through more often.
So those people who like running something multiple times per day being shafted out of their preferred playstyle is OK with you? I'm not one of them, but I'm sure there are people who enjoy multiple runs of certain content. What ticks me off is that to get up to the daily limit, I'm probably going to have to run content that I don't like, which means I either run content I don't enjoy or I don't make my daily limit, slowing down the grind that much more.
Why not? It's EXACTLY what they did on STO.
It's not OK with me.
I didn't say nothing of that kind.
It's what Cryptic did.
Or did not.
If it's just for once a day or not. No idea.
It's not the 1st thing they 'made better'.
...
So no exchanging Q to my alts or other players directly? Or does the refined Q go to an account total. I can live with the bonus of having multiple characters on an account to feed that refined total. It could be a perk of having those extra characters and encourage players to buy more.
Also I noticed that we aren't buying these points from Cryptic directly but from other players. I don't like having to rely on the pool of already purchased C-Points. What if no one has any they want to exchange, can I get it from Cryptic at the exchange cap of 500 per point?
You arent intended to save up, you are expected to buy CP.
Only one problem with that, if (almost) no one is "earning" Questionite AND placing it on Exchange, then I have no way to trade in my C-Points to "purchase" stuff.
So no exchanging Q to my alts or other players directly? Or does the refined Q go to an account total. I can live with the bonus of having multiple characters on an account to feed that refined total. It could be a perk of having those extra characters and encourage players to buy more.
Nope - no exchanging Q to alts or other players, and it's stored on a per character basis. The ONLY way to exchanging it is through the Q-Store.
If we can still get the costume and travel powers for the normal prices in the C-Store, I don't see anything wrong at all. It's more expensive by grinding and using Questionites? Well, that's the purpose, to "encourage" people to pay with C-P, instead of grinding for free.
As has already been pointed out we've already been told they're not going to be made available at the c-store so we're not going to be able to get them for the normal prices.
Also, people will not be buying Questionite from the c-store directly. They will buy them at the exchange from other players that might be willing to trade them. So at least someone has to grind for the Q for it to even show up in the game in the first place. We may not even have the Q we need available for purchase this way until the system has been in place for a considerable time and players have already had the chance to grind for it for a long time and are willing to part with it.
Only one problem with that, if (almost) no one is "earning" Questionite AND placing it on Exchange, then I have no way to trade in my C-Points to "purchase" stuff.
This is something I have considered as well. And considering the limited number of venues for acquiring Questionite, as well as the high costs of the items, and the fact they're even charging you Q for removing R5+ mods (starting at 6400Q), I wonder if people will even have enough Q to spare to sell to other players, or how much they'll have to spare if they did.
Unless there were players totally dedicated to grinding Q to sell it for CPs, but I wonder how profitable that would really be. If you get 1500Q per AP/CS run, assuming each run takes you an hour to complete (might be more), and you manage to sell that Q at 250 = 1 CP rate (which I think I've seen people mention is the highest it usually goes in STO), that would be 6 CP per run, or roughly 13 cents an hour. Which is a pretty crappy salary.
Nope - no exchanging Q to alts or other players, and it's stored on a per character basis. The ONLY way to exchanging it is through the Q-Store.
After reading the dev blog on Questionite, I find (as is typical) an unanswered question. Is the 8k/dat limit on refining Qu per account or per character?
After reading the dev blog on Questionite, I find (as is typical) an unanswered question. Is the 8k/dat limit on refining Qu per account or per character?
Character from what I'm told by my STO buds with multiple toons. All currencies and their interactions/limits are per character.
It takes 4-8 hours (best at 4 and worst at 8 to complete all the AP/CS) to get the maximum Q to refine a day. Why put a limit at all?
I prefer there to be a system where you can buy the points directly from Cryptic and the more that is purchased the higher the rate goes. And if the rate is too high you have the option to buy from players. But this prevents Cryptic from losing money I GUESS. But that would only be at a rate of 13 cents an hour per extremely dedicated players.
This is incentive to have us buy points and rely on other players having points to get the unlocks.
Only one problem with that, if (almost) no one is "earning" Questionite AND placing it on Exchange, then I have no way to trade in my C-Points to "purchase" stuff.
When I said, "you," I didnt mean everyone. If you are posting here then you have demonstrated a willingness to spend money on the game. You are expected to buy C-Points so that people who dont want to spend money on the game (or not as much) dont have to.
I think that part of the problem is that the people complaining (myself included) might not be coming from a perspective that's limited to just these issues specifically (Questionite I mean) but a host of other issues related to the big update as well,
Kind of a quick snip here (I'll get back to reading the rest of the thread after this, and I really, sincerely apologize for only doing this in a quick-glance snip), but that's kind of been my entire point here.
There are plenty of issues with this update as it stands, but going to lengths to find extreme fault (make no mistake - the Questonite system as it's going live is doing so with some faults, but I think the majority of those can be addressed as time goes on without delaying the patch any more then has already been delayed) with every single aspect of it is kind of silly.
You should be making the case against those faults that exist with any one system.
Specifically, the main issue with the Questonite system is less the high price-bar that's been set (though that is an issue, and I sincerely hope there's a reduction coming down the pipeline at some point though realistically I don't expect it; More's the pity there), and almost universally from what conversations have been had so far with the rate at which it's being acquired. Looking at it realistically, even if I can clear any given AP or CS in an hour (It'd be quite the race, but I could probably pull it off; I'm also nowhere near the average player, and I doubt a great many people that would be making arguments in this thread are, either, and that's part of the big problem here), I'm still only making ~1500qu/hour for that effort, with one small burst (entirely luck dependant) per day of 2000. So we're looking at approximately 4 hours, 30 minutes (4APs and if I'm really lucky maybe I can knock the Alerts out in 30 minutes) to hit my Questonite cap, solo.
That blows, when as I've indicated earlier, that even with the slowest possible methods in STO (and there's a great many methods and paths with which one can make dilithium) it takes me at most 2 hours to hit the same cap, and the difference in prices isn't really that huge (though STO does have a disadvantage with prices from the gate).
There's a distinct lack of variety, and the entire system is a severe timesink as it stands. That's a big freakin' problem, to me. I don't have any other real complaints with the system beyond that, and thankfully most of that stuff can be fixed with some content additions (new ways to get questonite), and some number adjustment. What worries me is the statistical improbability of that last part, and even the former doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence in me as of late. :U
(DISCLAIMER: If I sound a bit grumpy/irritated, I apologize. It's been a crapsack week and a half for me, and I realized last night that maybe I'm projecting too much of that here, which isn't fair to any of you.)
Kind of a quick snip here (I'll get back to reading the rest of the thread after this, and I really, sincerely apologize for only doing this in a quick-glance snip), but that's kind of been my entire point here.
There are plenty of issues with this update as it stands, but going to lengths to find extreme fault (make no mistake - the Questonite system as it's going live is doing so with some faults, but I think the majority of those can be addressed as time goes on without delaying the patch any more then has already been delayed) with every single aspect of it is kind of silly.
You should be making the case against those faults that exist with any one system.
Specifically, the main issue with the Questonite system is less the high price-bar that's been set (though that is an issue, and I sincerely hope there's a reduction coming down the pipeline at some point though realistically I don't expect it; More's the pity there), and almost universally from what conversations have been had so far with the rate at which it's being acquired. Looking at it realistically, even if I can clear any given AP or CS in an hour (It'd be quite the race, but I could probably pull it off; I'm also nowhere near the average player, and I doubt a great many people that would be making arguments in this thread are, either, and that's part of the big problem here), I'm still only making ~1500qu/hour for that effort, with one small burst (entirely luck dependant) per day of 2000. So we're looking at approximately 4 hours, 30 minutes (4APs and if I'm really lucky maybe I can knock the Alerts out in 30 minutes) to hit my Questonite cap, solo.
That blows, when as I've indicated earlier, that even with the slowest possible methods in STO (and there's a great many methods and paths with which one can make dilithium) it takes me at most 2 hours to hit the same cap, and the difference in prices isn't really that huge (though STO does have a disadvantage with prices from the gate).
There's a distinct lack of variety, and the entire system is a severe timesink as it stands. That's a big freakin' problem, to me. I don't have any other real complaints with the system beyond that, and thankfully most of that stuff can be fixed with some content additions (new ways to get questonite), and some number adjustment. What worries me is the statistical improbability of that last part, and even the former doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence in me as of late. :U
(DISCLAIMER: If I sound a bit grumpy/irritated, I apologize. It's been a crapsack week and a half for me, and I realized last night that maybe I'm projecting too much of that here, which isn't fair to any of you.)
Some good points there.
My concerns with this system would be greatly reduced, if not eliminated entirely, if I could acquire Questionite doing content I actually want to play at a rate comparable to what I could acquire Cryptic Points before. A few minutes of work was sufficient to allow me to be able to buy the most expensive thing in the C-Store.
I don't know about you folks, but I have a lifetime sub to this game ... and I haven't spent a single Cryptic Point. Not one. I am, theoretically at least, a leech every time I log in. There is nothing in the world, under the game's current model, that they could add to the store that I would buy. Nothing.
I have guaranteed access to new content.
I don't give a rat's hindquarters about costumes (I hit random until I find something that's livable).
Temp powers? Puhlease.
Animation skins? Generic hideouts? Zzzzzzzz ...
The only way they'll get me to cough up my stipend and dip into my wallet for dime 1 from a player like me is to entice me with performance. Lure me back to the game with a promise of something new and shiny to do. Hook me with the promise of improved performance by spending my reserve of Cryptibux. Tempt me with even better performance spending $5 and $2 there to get me over some bump in the grind. First one's free ... and maybe the next five ...
The problem with CO, from a business standpoint, is that a surprisingly large number of its players haven't paid a dime in nearly three years. I can't help but get the feeling that a big ol' target's been painted on my forehead.
My concerns with this system would be greatly reduced, if not eliminated entirely, if I could acquire Questionite doing content I actually want to play at a rate comparable to what I could acquire Cryptic Points before. A few minutes of work was sufficient to allow me to be able to buy the most expensive thing in the C-Store.
I think honestly, if we could increase diversity of acquisition and drop the time required to cap-out to at most 3 hours, I'd be fine with it. I honestly expect at least some penalty given the fact that if Questonite is per-character... we have exponentially more character slots then STO has for the most part. Realistically, there has to be some preventative measure to stop people from acquiring tens of thousands of questonite a day, so some sort of timesink is going to be necessary.
eg: It's trivial to farm 500cp in STO, even with all of the current stopgaps in place to slow dilithium farming (and I have no doubt that's exactly what they're trying to do, even while they add new ways to get it) and took me ~a week with only two characters (I miss Ker'rat).
If I used all of my available characters, it would take me somewhere between 6 to 10 hours to hit my dilithium cap depending on luck and amount of effort put in. That's 40,000 dilithium per day or ~150cp/day, meaning that in 10 days I could get a VA-grade ship, or in two weeks I could get an item worth 2,000cp.
Here, I'd have to spend most of that doing the same content... whereas in STO, I can do ~3 characters almost entirely uniquely through various paths (PVP, STFs, PVE dailies) with very little crossover (and even the PVE dailies differ between factions), if I'm willing to take a little extra time to do it.
More diversity and a slight lowering of the timesink to something more defineable would make it tolerable, even with current prices being a little disquieting.
(PROTIP: You can theoretically exchange dilithium between characters if you have any positive amount of CP at all. Set your 'sale' value per CP at an exceedingly high point, log out, and buy it back with the other character to get the dilithium in escrow. Then drain it to the character of your choice. I'll have to re-read that section of the questonite system, but if it works just as well here...)
My concerns with this system would be greatly reduced, if not eliminated entirely, if I could acquire Questionite doing content I actually want to play at a rate comparable to what I could acquire Cryptic Points before. A few minutes of work was sufficient to allow me to be able to buy the most expensive thing in the C-Store.
That what you want here is often called "pay to win". Most hardcore gamers don't like that, and want that
you have rather to "work hard" for your stuff .. and that means work hard ingame, and not that you should
be better just because you earn more money in real life.
What many maybe haven't noted is, that you can now buy ingame items with stats !!! via Q and so also
inderectly via RL-money.
My concerns with this system would be greatly reduced, if not eliminated entirely, if I could acquire Questionite doing content I actually want to play at a rate comparable to what I could acquire Cryptic Points before. A few minutes of work was sufficient to allow me to be able to buy the most expensive thing in the C-Store.
Agreed,
I think a lot of the concerns being brough up here would be addressed if there were more ways to acquire Questionite and the amount of time we'd have to spend to get it wasn't so high (perhaps if they increased the amount gained from APs and the amount gained for CS's was per episode).
That what you want here is often called "pay to win". Most hardcore gamers don't like that, and want that
you have rather to "work hard" for your stuff .. and that means work hard ingame, and not that you should
be better just because you earn more money in real life.
What many maybe haven't noted is, that you can now buy ingame items with stats !!! via Q and so also
inderectly via RL-money.
I don't think that buying a costume in the C-Store is 'pay to win.'
I don't think that buying a costume in the C-Store is 'pay to win.'
Not a costume .. but buying socketed purple items. And as far is i've seen it, you can buy them now
with questionite. This seems to be something that a lot people maybe haven't noticed at all due to
the rage about other things.
Not a costume .. but buying socketed purple items. And as far is i've seen it, you can buy them now
with questionite. This seems to be something that a lot people maybe haven't noticed at all due to
the rage about other things.
Pay to Win is STILL not applicable if one can get the item for free. If there's an item you can ONLY GET THROUGH PAYING that gives you an advantage, that is pay-to-win. This is not.
Not a costume .. but buying socketed purple items. And as far is i've seen it, you can buy them now
with questionite. This seems to be something that a lot people maybe haven't noticed at all due to
the rage about other things.
Oh, I've noticed that. It also costs Q to remove R5+ MODs from upgrades as well (which is necessary for fusion, which Im guessing could also cost Q to get catalysts). Its one of the details I think compounds this issue (though, I've only brought it up a few times and not much on this thread till now).
Its not just that the cost of the TP skins or costume pieces is high vs. the amount of Questionite that can be gained and how much work we have to put in to get it. But we also have to choose between those cosmetic (and highly desireble by most players) items, or gearing up out toons.
Pay to Win is STILL not applicable if one can get the item for free. If there's an item you can ONLY GET THROUGH PAYING that gives you an advantage, that is pay-to-win.
Precisely...again. Pay to Win is being misused almost as much as entitlement these days...almost...
It's not pay-to-win. It's only a heavy gear grind.
Probably comparable gear will be available from bosses.
Paying for mods removal however is retarded.
Pay to Win is STILL not applicable if one can get the item for free. If there's an item you can ONLY GET THROUGH PAYING that gives you an advantage, that is pay-to-win. This is not.
Pay to win is normally also when you can buy just the same equip that other farm for hundreds of hours
just for some RL cash. It doesn't always mean your better than everyone else, but just en par with players
who invested a lot of time ingame.
For example somebody raided 1 years 6 hours each day to finally have the top loot, and then somebody else
just drops some $ into a cash-shop to have loot of the same quality .. believe me that would be a big uproar
in all raid-centered games.
Not a costume .. but buying socketed purple items. And as far is i've seen it, you can buy them now
with questionite. This seems to be something that a lot people maybe haven't noticed at all due to
the rage about other things.
I am not sure that its pay to win if the item is available without the real money cost.
I am also not sure that its even a consideration any longer in CO. it doesnt get much more pay to win than the difference between a high end FF build and ATs.
Money spent has always had a significant impact on comparative performance in MMOs, from what I have seen.
I mean take WoW for example. Two players, neither of whom has ever played the game. On January first give one of them $15 to pay to play the game. Give the other $180 to play the game.
On December 1st give the first player an additional $15 to pay to play the game. Have the two characters face off in a duel on December 2nd.
The one who spent the most money will almost surely win. He paid for something that gives him an advantage in game...experience.
Ever since the first Kitchen Sink patch, I have insisted on calling that patch the Toilet Bowl patch. I figured, if I was going to refer to the patch as a plumbing fixture, I might as well refer to it by that fixture that its contents most closely resemble. I was wrong. /headhang
This update promises to make the Kitchen Sink patch look like a Rose Garden in comparison... So I will refer to this update as the Septic Tank Update and the kitchen sink can resume a more stately nomenclature... possibly the "Full of Win Compared to Recent Developments" patch or something.
Good to see that the new additions will make working with groups of people more viable as boring grinds can get tedious. Since i have been here AP's and CS are the same as the raids i used to run in my eyes and actually more fun as u can stop most and come back to them later. I personally don't know any player here who runs all the AP's and CS's daily or 4 times a day for that matter so the once a day thing really is no a big deal since a lot of people have only ran these once period.
Group play will make things faster and lot less boring as having a good crowd to run with will always be more fun than solo to me. If we lose some of our solo players, well honestly, who is really gonna notice since u play by yourself anyway?
i agree with the complain about them choosing what people have to run to get questionite, however anyone who has played a grind raid specific game had to run lairs multiple times in order for a chance for a drop so this is not a new thing just newly added to Champions.
As one player stated they add new content and since people have done everything else they will burn through it immediately just like the old content and back to the same complaint that they have. I understand the amount of time it takes to create content for these games and know that my money helps for it to come eventually. When whiteout came out all i saw was more complaints of this is it instead of thnx for something. Everyone wants more to do but if u people wont even do whats here now be it for whatever reason there is no reason for them to think u will approach the newer without the same doom atitutde. MMO's are built for player retention and the only way to retain players for long periods of time is to have items that take a lot of time to get and have fun while doing. The biggest issue here is what some players consider fun and what others consider fun are beyond vast.
I'm not sure what factor precisely determines what qualifies as "Pay to Win" or not, and would actually like a link to an official definition of the term if somebody has one, or if it even exist. But I do know this, if my choices are basically:
Farm for inordinate amounts of time to acquire something in-game, or...
Pay RL money to get it instantly.
THAT is an issue. If I'm not allowed to call it "Pay to Win" to make others feel confortable, then I suppose we'll have to make up another term to call that then. But it doesn't mean there isn't an issue.
can refined questionite be traded? it is mentioned that the ore cannot.....but I was curious. If so it is a way for people to buy and sell cryptic points which would be very cool.
How is running three different APs once a day each going to take up more time than running one AP three times a day? Each AP takes roughly the same amount of time to run, at least to me.
Ok, I get it, you want to reward us for our time investment... Let US decide how we want to spend that time instead of dictating to us that you will reward our time investment but only if we spend our time doing these particular things. If you want to reward a time investment, then just give us a steady flow of Questionite while we are logged on to the game. This is not a time based reward like you are claiming it is, this is an activity gated grind which penalizes anyone who doesn't like any particular part of that grind.
If a particular player loves running Resistance but absolutely despises running SL, DF, AS, and WO, then they are going to have to either run content they do not enjoy or slow their grind down to a pace that would make a snail seem hasty.
Meh...
If this new system brings in more cash to Cryptic so that they can make the updates i like then im all for it, even if i have to pay a little more. I never felt like top notch gear was necessary for CO, and from what i can see on PTS you wont need special gear after this patch (but you can go after it if you want).
I'm just going to pay, win, and get on with my life.:cool:
can refined questionite be traded? it is mentioned that the ore cannot.....but I was curious. If so it is a way for people to buy and sell cryptic points which would be very cool.
If it works like dilithium, the only purpose for 'unrefined' questonite will be to be refined into questonite itself. However, you can buy/sell cryptic points for refined questonite via the exchange system as mentioned in the devblog itself.
Oh, but if it turns out that it is more efficient to farm Questionite solo than teamed then we have a problem.:mad:
No that would be better not worse. If you like to team, then team, but dont try to bribe us into teaming with incentives. Solo and team play should be equal neither receiving a bonus over the other. A LOT of us play this game only because it is so solo friendly.
Comments
What? Less QC and more techno lasses.
But to stay even slightly on topic.
It's not a bad system. Totally grindy of course, but my main use for it was topping off C-points rather than using it exclusively.
Example: New fluff item cost 480. Stipend is 400. With multiple characters doing dailies and whatnot, earning those extra 80 points does not take a long time. (Speaking from experience over in STO.)
I highly doubt they'd change these from 4 times a day down to 1. I'm just guessing the system is coded to only give you Q rewards once a day. When that resets, who knows.
Still, I'm surprised they're limiting you to once a day runs of these per instance. It's already long/boring enough to run the shortest one (I'd say SL, but I could be wrong). I can't imagine running it 4 times a day just to get most of your daily Q rewards. And then doing the same thing on your alts.
If your grinding for it, does the number of Questionite change when you solo or when you team? If it doesn't matter then, lots of soloing but if it does give you more? Well you'll see a spike in teams.
No. As of PTS right now, you'll get 1500 unrefined Q-ore as part of the quest reward for finishing a AP/CS. And 2000 for finishing the daily Alert roundup.
C-Store TP Skins = 420 CPs
C-Store Costume Set = 360 CPs
Questionite CTP Skins = 200,000Q (133 AP/CS runs, or 667 CPs going by 300Q = 1 CP rate)
Questionite Swinging Skins = 250,000Q (167 AP/CS runs, or 833 CPs going by 300Q = 1 CP rate)
Questionite Cyberpunk Costume (per piece) = 45,000Q (30 AP/CS runs, or 150 CPs going by 300Q = 1 CP rate)
Questionite Cyberpunk Costume (all 8 pieces) = 360,000Q (240 AP/CS runs, or 1200 CPs going by 300Q = 1 CP rate)[/QUOTE]
I found it extremely interesting that one of the hardest things to obtain in the game to date is going to be worth less in the Questionite store than the new stuffs. :rolleyes:
Oh neat I can buy everything after one mission!!! >.>
Pst, Last might wanna check your number there...
So those people who like running something multiple times per day being shafted out of their preferred playstyle is OK with you? I'm not one of them, but I'm sure there are people who enjoy multiple runs of certain content. What ticks me off is that to get up to the daily limit, I'm probably going to have to run content that I don't like, which means I either run content I don't enjoy or I don't make my daily limit, slowing down the grind that much more.
Why not? It's EXACTLY what they did on STO.
It's not OK with me.
I didn't say nothing of that kind.
It's what Cryptic did.
Or did not.
If it's just for once a day or not. No idea.
It's not the 1st thing they 'made better'.
...
Sooooo....you did? :rolleyes: Sorry, couldn't help myself.
double negative
Also I noticed that we aren't buying these points from Cryptic directly but from other players. I don't like having to rely on the pool of already purchased C-Points. What if no one has any they want to exchange, can I get it from Cryptic at the exchange cap of 500 per point?
Nope - no exchanging Q to alts or other players, and it's stored on a per character basis. The ONLY way to exchanging it is through the Q-Store.
As has already been pointed out we've already been told they're not going to be made available at the c-store so we're not going to be able to get them for the normal prices.
Also, people will not be buying Questionite from the c-store directly. They will buy them at the exchange from other players that might be willing to trade them. So at least someone has to grind for the Q for it to even show up in the game in the first place. We may not even have the Q we need available for purchase this way until the system has been in place for a considerable time and players have already had the chance to grind for it for a long time and are willing to part with it.
This is something I have considered as well. And considering the limited number of venues for acquiring Questionite, as well as the high costs of the items, and the fact they're even charging you Q for removing R5+ mods (starting at 6400Q), I wonder if people will even have enough Q to spare to sell to other players, or how much they'll have to spare if they did.
Unless there were players totally dedicated to grinding Q to sell it for CPs, but I wonder how profitable that would really be. If you get 1500Q per AP/CS run, assuming each run takes you an hour to complete (might be more), and you manage to sell that Q at 250 = 1 CP rate (which I think I've seen people mention is the highest it usually goes in STO), that would be 6 CP per run, or roughly 13 cents an hour. Which is a pretty crappy salary.
After reading the dev blog on Questionite, I find (as is typical) an unanswered question. Is the 8k/dat limit on refining Qu per account or per character?
Character from what I'm told by my STO buds with multiple toons. All currencies and their interactions/limits are per character.
I prefer there to be a system where you can buy the points directly from Cryptic and the more that is purchased the higher the rate goes. And if the rate is too high you have the option to buy from players. But this prevents Cryptic from losing money I GUESS. But that would only be at a rate of 13 cents an hour per extremely dedicated players.
This is incentive to have us buy points and rely on other players having points to get the unlocks.
It was already bad but that's just terrible. That's just a massive burn. I hope they change that (though I doubt it)
Anyone know the refinement rate? 1 to 1? It sounds like it but just making sure....
Yes, 1 to 1.
When I said, "you," I didnt mean everyone. If you are posting here then you have demonstrated a willingness to spend money on the game. You are expected to buy C-Points so that people who dont want to spend money on the game (or not as much) dont have to.
RMT-farmers can of course with no problem i guess
Im not sure if its possible now, but if they add more ways of earning Questionite in the future it likely will be.
Kind of a quick snip here (I'll get back to reading the rest of the thread after this, and I really, sincerely apologize for only doing this in a quick-glance snip), but that's kind of been my entire point here.
There are plenty of issues with this update as it stands, but going to lengths to find extreme fault (make no mistake - the Questonite system as it's going live is doing so with some faults, but I think the majority of those can be addressed as time goes on without delaying the patch any more then has already been delayed) with every single aspect of it is kind of silly.
You should be making the case against those faults that exist with any one system.
Specifically, the main issue with the Questonite system is less the high price-bar that's been set (though that is an issue, and I sincerely hope there's a reduction coming down the pipeline at some point though realistically I don't expect it; More's the pity there), and almost universally from what conversations have been had so far with the rate at which it's being acquired. Looking at it realistically, even if I can clear any given AP or CS in an hour (It'd be quite the race, but I could probably pull it off; I'm also nowhere near the average player, and I doubt a great many people that would be making arguments in this thread are, either, and that's part of the big problem here), I'm still only making ~1500qu/hour for that effort, with one small burst (entirely luck dependant) per day of 2000. So we're looking at approximately 4 hours, 30 minutes (4APs and if I'm really lucky maybe I can knock the Alerts out in 30 minutes) to hit my Questonite cap, solo.
That blows, when as I've indicated earlier, that even with the slowest possible methods in STO (and there's a great many methods and paths with which one can make dilithium) it takes me at most 2 hours to hit the same cap, and the difference in prices isn't really that huge (though STO does have a disadvantage with prices from the gate).
There's a distinct lack of variety, and the entire system is a severe timesink as it stands. That's a big freakin' problem, to me. I don't have any other real complaints with the system beyond that, and thankfully most of that stuff can be fixed with some content additions (new ways to get questonite), and some number adjustment. What worries me is the statistical improbability of that last part, and even the former doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence in me as of late. :U
(DISCLAIMER: If I sound a bit grumpy/irritated, I apologize. It's been a crapsack week and a half for me, and I realized last night that maybe I'm projecting too much of that here, which isn't fair to any of you.)
Some good points there.
My concerns with this system would be greatly reduced, if not eliminated entirely, if I could acquire Questionite doing content I actually want to play at a rate comparable to what I could acquire Cryptic Points before. A few minutes of work was sufficient to allow me to be able to buy the most expensive thing in the C-Store.
I have guaranteed access to new content.
I don't give a rat's hindquarters about costumes (I hit random until I find something that's livable).
Temp powers? Puhlease.
Animation skins? Generic hideouts? Zzzzzzzz ...
The only way they'll get me to cough up my stipend and dip into my wallet for dime 1 from a player like me is to entice me with performance. Lure me back to the game with a promise of something new and shiny to do. Hook me with the promise of improved performance by spending my reserve of Cryptibux. Tempt me with even better performance spending $5 and $2 there to get me over some bump in the grind. First one's free ... and maybe the next five ...
The problem with CO, from a business standpoint, is that a surprisingly large number of its players haven't paid a dime in nearly three years. I can't help but get the feeling that a big ol' target's been painted on my forehead.
I think honestly, if we could increase diversity of acquisition and drop the time required to cap-out to at most 3 hours, I'd be fine with it. I honestly expect at least some penalty given the fact that if Questonite is per-character... we have exponentially more character slots then STO has for the most part. Realistically, there has to be some preventative measure to stop people from acquiring tens of thousands of questonite a day, so some sort of timesink is going to be necessary.
eg: It's trivial to farm 500cp in STO, even with all of the current stopgaps in place to slow dilithium farming (and I have no doubt that's exactly what they're trying to do, even while they add new ways to get it) and took me ~a week with only two characters (I miss Ker'rat).
If I used all of my available characters, it would take me somewhere between 6 to 10 hours to hit my dilithium cap depending on luck and amount of effort put in. That's 40,000 dilithium per day or ~150cp/day, meaning that in 10 days I could get a VA-grade ship, or in two weeks I could get an item worth 2,000cp.
Here, I'd have to spend most of that doing the same content... whereas in STO, I can do ~3 characters almost entirely uniquely through various paths (PVP, STFs, PVE dailies) with very little crossover (and even the PVE dailies differ between factions), if I'm willing to take a little extra time to do it.
More diversity and a slight lowering of the timesink to something more defineable would make it tolerable, even with current prices being a little disquieting.
(PROTIP: You can theoretically exchange dilithium between characters if you have any positive amount of CP at all. Set your 'sale' value per CP at an exceedingly high point, log out, and buy it back with the other character to get the dilithium in escrow. Then drain it to the character of your choice. I'll have to re-read that section of the questonite system, but if it works just as well here...)
That what you want here is often called "pay to win". Most hardcore gamers don't like that, and want that
you have rather to "work hard" for your stuff .. and that means work hard ingame, and not that you should
be better just because you earn more money in real life.
What many maybe haven't noted is, that you can now buy ingame items with stats !!! via Q and so also
inderectly via RL-money.
Agreed,
I think a lot of the concerns being brough up here would be addressed if there were more ways to acquire Questionite and the amount of time we'd have to spend to get it wasn't so high (perhaps if they increased the amount gained from APs and the amount gained for CS's was per episode).
I don't think that buying a costume in the C-Store is 'pay to win.'
Super.
Not a costume .. but buying socketed purple items. And as far is i've seen it, you can buy them now
with questionite. This seems to be something that a lot people maybe haven't noticed at all due to
the rage about other things.
Oh, I've noticed that. It also costs Q to remove R5+ MODs from upgrades as well (which is necessary for fusion, which Im guessing could also cost Q to get catalysts). Its one of the details I think compounds this issue (though, I've only brought it up a few times and not much on this thread till now).
Its not just that the cost of the TP skins or costume pieces is high vs. the amount of Questionite that can be gained and how much work we have to put in to get it. But we also have to choose between those cosmetic (and highly desireble by most players) items, or gearing up out toons.
Precisely...again. Pay to Win is being misused almost as much as entitlement these days...almost...
Probably comparable gear will be available from bosses.
Paying for mods removal however is retarded.
Pay to win is normally also when you can buy just the same equip that other farm for hundreds of hours
just for some RL cash. It doesn't always mean your better than everyone else, but just en par with players
who invested a lot of time ingame.
For example somebody raided 1 years 6 hours each day to finally have the top loot, and then somebody else
just drops some $ into a cash-shop to have loot of the same quality .. believe me that would be a big uproar
in all raid-centered games.
I am not sure that its pay to win if the item is available without the real money cost.
I am also not sure that its even a consideration any longer in CO. it doesnt get much more pay to win than the difference between a high end FF build and ATs.
Money spent has always had a significant impact on comparative performance in MMOs, from what I have seen.
I mean take WoW for example. Two players, neither of whom has ever played the game. On January first give one of them $15 to pay to play the game. Give the other $180 to play the game.
On December 1st give the first player an additional $15 to pay to play the game. Have the two characters face off in a duel on December 2nd.
The one who spent the most money will almost surely win. He paid for something that gives him an advantage in game...experience.
Ever since the first Kitchen Sink patch, I have insisted on calling that patch the Toilet Bowl patch. I figured, if I was going to refer to the patch as a plumbing fixture, I might as well refer to it by that fixture that its contents most closely resemble. I was wrong. /headhang
This update promises to make the Kitchen Sink patch look like a Rose Garden in comparison... So I will refer to this update as the Septic Tank Update and the kitchen sink can resume a more stately nomenclature... possibly the "Full of Win Compared to Recent Developments" patch or something.
Group play will make things faster and lot less boring as having a good crowd to run with will always be more fun than solo to me. If we lose some of our solo players, well honestly, who is really gonna notice since u play by yourself anyway?
i agree with the complain about them choosing what people have to run to get questionite, however anyone who has played a grind raid specific game had to run lairs multiple times in order for a chance for a drop so this is not a new thing just newly added to Champions.
As one player stated they add new content and since people have done everything else they will burn through it immediately just like the old content and back to the same complaint that they have. I understand the amount of time it takes to create content for these games and know that my money helps for it to come eventually. When whiteout came out all i saw was more complaints of this is it instead of thnx for something. Everyone wants more to do but if u people wont even do whats here now be it for whatever reason there is no reason for them to think u will approach the newer without the same doom atitutde. MMO's are built for player retention and the only way to retain players for long periods of time is to have items that take a lot of time to get and have fun while doing. The biggest issue here is what some players consider fun and what others consider fun are beyond vast.
THAT is an issue. If I'm not allowed to call it "Pay to Win" to make others feel confortable, then I suppose we'll have to make up another term to call that then. But it doesn't mean there isn't an issue.
How is running three different APs once a day each going to take up more time than running one AP three times a day? Each AP takes roughly the same amount of time to run, at least to me.
Ok, I get it, you want to reward us for our time investment... Let US decide how we want to spend that time instead of dictating to us that you will reward our time investment but only if we spend our time doing these particular things. If you want to reward a time investment, then just give us a steady flow of Questionite while we are logged on to the game. This is not a time based reward like you are claiming it is, this is an activity gated grind which penalizes anyone who doesn't like any particular part of that grind.
If a particular player loves running Resistance but absolutely despises running SL, DF, AS, and WO, then they are going to have to either run content they do not enjoy or slow their grind down to a pace that would make a snail seem hasty.
If this new system brings in more cash to Cryptic so that they can make the updates i like then im all for it, even if i have to pay a little more. I never felt like top notch gear was necessary for CO, and from what i can see on PTS you wont need special gear after this patch (but you can go after it if you want).
I'm just going to pay, win, and get on with my life.:cool:
If it works like dilithium, the only purpose for 'unrefined' questonite will be to be refined into questonite itself. However, you can buy/sell cryptic points for refined questonite via the exchange system as mentioned in the devblog itself.
No that would be better not worse. If you like to team, then team, but dont try to bribe us into teaming with incentives. Solo and team play should be equal neither receiving a bonus over the other. A LOT of us play this game only because it is so solo friendly.