Any idea what's going on with future expansions/updates?

ratchetman2 · July 2019

Heyo! Used to play this game A TON from like 2011 to 2014, then kinda got busy with life and only jumped on every now and then, but recently got back into it and it's kinda sad that aside from new costume pieces and such almost nothing big has been added aside from an endgame zone (That I hear doesn't have a lot of reward to play due to the level cap still being 40, correct me if I'm wrong)

So I've heard that basically most the developers and resources that were being put into constantly giving big new updates to CO ended up over on STO and Neverwinter. And I know CO is an old game and the graphics don't really hold up due to the engine and all. But has anyone heard anything of if they'll be putting more resources back into this game? (Hell if money is the issue since adventure packs became free I'd be fine if they even charged for a big expansion, LOTRO Style)

Anyway! I hear all sorts of stuff in game in zone chat I just figured to check here for information or at least start a discussion on if anything is coming due to the game recently becoming the longest running super hero MMO of all time as well as the major successes of Marvel lately bringing in influxes of players wanting to make their own heroes (or so i hear at least)

flyingfinn · July 2019

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/11191513-death-rattle:-our-first-serialized-story!
'nuff said.

ratchetman2 · July 2019

flyingfinn wrote: »

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/11191513-death-rattle:-our-first-serialized-story!
'nuff said.

I wouldn't really call that an expansion or...anything...Every few weeks we get 1 singular mission that just reuses old game models. They used to release grand adventure packs/mission chapters like when they released Whiteout, this is just...barely anything.

I know I sound super picky but this really isn't anything compared to what they used to release.

This is just what they can make with the resources and developers they have right now because 99% of what they once had is over on other MMO titles.

theravenforce · July 2019

I think you have to consider the size of the Development Team and how much money CO makes. If it made as much as STO or NWO or whatever else is out there and had a fleshed out Dev Team...then yes, you'd expect a lot of expansions.

The way I see it, CO's development team has been focused on:

- Customization Expansion
- Power Set & Mechanic Reviews / Adjustments / Additions
- Endgame Improvements and Rewards
- Feasible Content Additions

Regardless of how problematic some reviews or power sets may turn out to be post review for the way some people like to do things...they are essentially developing the game.

We have seen so many customization options increase since 2014 as well as content additions and changes etc.

CO is sitting on a large opportunity superhero wise, and I think until the big bosses realize that pumping money into a game which is part of a genre of movies (one of which is the highest grossing movies of all time) is a good idea...CO's going to keep doing what it can.

doctorevilface · July 2019

You pretty much answered your own question. It all comes down to allocating finite resources for maximum effect. Cryptic could invest in expanding CO, but why would they? They have access to two of the biggest franchises in American geek culture.

If you're worried about the game's future, don't be. Cryptic fully owns the rights to the Champions IP. They can run the game for dirt cheap and it still contributes to their bottom dollar, despite how small it is. Barring the studio being shut down entirely, it'll keep shuffling along...

fermi · July 2019

Since you raised the question and I was curious, I did a little digging in financial statements. Perfect World International is a publicly traded company and so they are required to released annual reports on revenue and the like.

The good news is that year over year they generally seem to be making more and more money. They are in a good position and have no reason to be stingy. They do not enumerate the various online properties that they own and you are right that Champions is undoubtedly one of the smaller ones (though probably not the smallest). But again, since it does share somewhat with Neverwinter and STO softwarewise and can certainly share serverwise, there is likely to be even less pressure than a usual MMO would face.

The bad, though perhaps obvious, news is that Perfect World International is no World of Warcraft. WoW pulls in billions of dollars, and everything in PWI altogether nets half a billion. So no... it's just not reasonable to expect the same level of development WoW gets, particularly for a small part of a less successful business.

ratchetman2 · July 2019

fermi wrote: »

Since you raised the question and I was curious, I did a little digging in financial statements. Perfect World International is a publicly traded company and so they are required to released annual reports on revenue and the like.

The good news is that year over year they generally seem to be making more and more money. They are in a good position and have no reason to be stingy. They do not enumerate the various online properties that they own and you are right that Champions is undoubtedly one of the smaller ones (though probably not the smallest). But again, since it does share somewhat with Neverwinter and STO softwarewise and can certainly share serverwise, there is likely to be even less pressure than a usual MMO would face.

The bad, though perhaps obvious, news is that Perfect World International is no World of Warcraft. WoW pulls in billions of dollars, and everything in PWI altogether nets half a billion. So no... it's just not reasonable to expect the same level of development WoW gets, particularly for a small part of a less successful business.

Okay cool, this is legit all the info I was wanting, at least mostly, I know they're not as big as WoW or even as big as they used to be, basically i've just been wondering if anyone had any inside information on if they'll be getting more resources soon to start putting out bigger expansions. (It seems i rambled on and didn't get to the point quick enough in my original post, my bad)

Thanks for this info!

jonsills · July 2019

Now see what you can find about Cryptic Studios. Perfect World is the publisher, but Cryptic is the company that has to pay the software engineers for CO, STO, and NW.

fermi · July 2019

My understanding was that Cryptic was a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World. Is it not?

themightyzenith · July 2019

fermi wrote: »

My understanding was that Cryptic was a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World. Is it not?

It is indeed.

nyghtshroude · July 2019

For this company, focus is on Neverwinter and STO. We on Champions are more of a weekend gig by comparison. Though it's surprising that we don't get more because of how popular superheroes are. Maybe if we had MARVEL in the name we'd be singing a different song.

As shallow as it is, more people know Marvel Comics and the movies based on it and therefore would likely play the game if it featured Marvel characters. Assuming you can choose to be either hero or villain, players would work with SHIELD or HYDRA. Then you stop Thanos (or at least try and get the stones for yourself as a villain) DLC would be easy - add the X-Men for example with Apocalypse as the main villain. Easy.

But people don't know Champions as well so we don't get the developer attention.

jonsills · July 2019

And according to Tumerboy's capsule history of the project, you can blame Marvel themselves for that. He says that when the game was originally being developed (behind the scenes because they were in the process of getting fired by NCSoft and being forced to train their replacements on CoX) it was going to be Marvel Online, with backing from Microsoft's XBox division, which is why XBox 360 controller support is still baked into the software. Apparently, however, someone at Marvel decided at the time that MMOs were a passing fad, and pulled out of the deal. Then Microsoft, convinced that a big-name IP was needed in order to succeed, backed out as well.

(Fortunately for us, tabletop game publisher Hero Games was going through a bit of a financial crisis, in part because they weren't one of the big names like TSR and there was a time when if you went to a gaming store and asked for an RPG, they'd try to sell you a Magic: the Gathering deck - happened to me more than once. So Cryptic was able to negotiate the purchase of the IP for their superhero RPG Champions, then lease the tabletop rights back to Hero and make the game we all know and love, or for some I guess grudgingly tolerate, today.)

screwthisprocess · July 2019

flyingfinn wrote: »

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/11191513-death-rattle:-our-first-serialized-story!
'nuff said.

The April fools joke sounded more interesting imo.

flyingfinn · July 2019

nyghtshroude#9048 wrote: »

For this company, focus is on Neverwinter and STO. We on Champions are more of a weekend gig by comparison. Though it's surprising that we don't get more because of how popular superheroes are. Maybe if we had MARVEL in the name we'd be singing a different song.

As shallow as it is, more people know Marvel Comics and the movies based on it and therefore would likely play the game if it featured Marvel characters. Assuming you can choose to be either hero or villain, players would work with SHIELD or HYDRA. Then you stop Thanos (or at least try and get the stones for yourself as a villain) DLC would be easy - add the X-Men for example with Apocalypse as the main villain. Easy.

But people don't know Champions as well so we don't get the developer attention.

And all the Marvel MMOs have been shut down so far.

markhawkman · July 2019

flyingfinn wrote: »

nyghtshroude#9048 wrote: »

For this company, focus is on Neverwinter and STO. We on Champions are more of a weekend gig by comparison. Though it's surprising that we don't get more because of how popular superheroes are. Maybe if we had MARVEL in the name we'd be singing a different song.

As shallow as it is, more people know Marvel Comics and the movies based on it and therefore would likely play the game if it featured Marvel characters. Assuming you can choose to be either hero or villain, players would work with SHIELD or HYDRA. Then you stop Thanos (or at least try and get the stones for yourself as a villain) DLC would be easy - add the X-Men for example with Apocalypse as the main villain. Easy.

But people don't know Champions as well so we don't get the developer attention.

And all the Marvel MMOs have been shut down so far.

That's the worst thing with having Disney in charge. They don't like UGC. Not even customizable characters. So why would they want to fund a game where there are more player created characters than official characters?

fermi · July 2019

markhawkman wrote: »

That's the worst thing with having Disney in charge. They don't like UGC. Not even customizable characters. So why would they want to fund a game where there are more player created characters than official characters?

That's exactly why DCUO never did anything for me. You get to be a cheap knock-off of your favourite DC character and then you get to be bossed around by your favourite character's sidekick. Pass.

spinnytop · July 2019

ratchetman2 wrote: »

I wouldn't really call that an expansion or...anything...

You're likely in the category of people who will never be happy with the attention this game gets. Do with that what you will.

markhawkman · July 2019

fermi wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

That's the worst thing with having Disney in charge. They don't like UGC. Not even customizable characters. So why would they want to fund a game where there are more player created characters than official characters?

That's exactly why DCUO never did anything for me. You get to be a cheap knock-off of your favourite DC character and then you get to be bossed around by your favourite character's sidekick. Pass.

I found that to be ok. For story reasons you're literally a newbie to being a hero. So you look to guys like Superman for guidance.

Yes, that basically makes it a sidekick simulator, but I didn't hate that.

nyghtshroude · July 2019

fermi wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

That's the worst thing with having Disney in charge. They don't like UGC. Not even customizable characters. So why would they want to fund a game where there are more player created characters than official characters?

That's exactly why DCUO never did anything for me. You get to be a cheap knock-off of your favourite DC character and then you get to be bossed around by your favourite character's sidekick. Pass.

City of Villains did the whole villain thing right - toward the end, Recluse just sorta gives you a nod that says, "You're tough, better not **** with you." It wasn't cringe or edgy it was just a nod of respect. I mean this is after you come from a mission with his helmet crumpled in your hand like a candy bar wrapper, but yeah.

shaun98ca2 · August 2019

I think if PWI/Cryptic wants to see a flood of new players and income. They need to start working on REMAKING the game

New engine, better overall play mechanics (tab targeting is so old so MAYBE something new?)

Basically revitalize a great concept that players are desperately looking for.

Marketing not really needed as word of mouth and youtube videos go a long way. Get devs on video to discuss plans for the future of champions online and start creating new topics and subjects to get people excited and start playing waiting for the new revamp.

This game can look at other successful mmo's and improve on where they are succeeding such as ESO play where at any level for example.

There are new superhero MMO's on the horizon, and one that actually looks good.

lezard21 · August 2019

shaun98ca2 wrote: »

There are new superhero MMO's on the horizon, and one that actually looks good.

Indeed

https://store.steampowered.com/app/557180/League_of_Maidens/

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ss_7dc4fd7e2e84b894b7ae342fdfb9ae280b7a6d73.600x338.jpg?t=1560113862

RIP CO
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OH WAIT! You were probably talking about the tri-force of scam VoT/SoH/VO. LOL

shaun98ca2 wrote: »

This game can look at other successful mmo's and improve on where they are succeeding such as ESO play where at any level for example.

Please, mercy! You are killing me!

The only reason ESO is doing fine (not succeeding, otherwise they would have stayed p2p) is because of the popularity of the IP.

spinnytop · August 2019

shaun98ca2 wrote: »

I think if PWI/Cryptic wants to see a flood of new players and income. They need to start working on REMAKING the game

New engine, better overall play mechanics (tab targeting is so old so MAYBE something new?)

Basically revitalize a great concept that players are desperately looking for.

Marketing not really needed as word of mouth and youtube videos go a long way. Get devs on video to discuss plans for the future of champions online and start creating new topics and subjects to get people excited and start playing waiting for the new revamp.

This game can look at other successful mmo's and improve on where they are succeeding such as ESO play where at any level for example.

Big bold ideas, but not new. Also completely unrealistic due to being based on an uninformed premise. PWI doesn't want to see a flood of new players and income for CO. They don't want anything. PWI execs have probably forgotten that CO exists by this point because they didn't acquire Cryptic for CO, they acquired it for STO and NWO.

Cryptic also isn't invested in getting a flood of new players or income for CO. They're satisfied with it making enough income to keep the lights on. Big overhauls are a terrifying idea for this game, and completely rebuilding it anew is a project you'd be hard-pressed to convince anyone of. Would I love it if they just took all the costumes, and all the ideas for powersets and transplanted them into a shiny new game with modern game mechanics? Sure. Do I think they should do that? No. I think it would be a massive expense that has very little chance of recouping its losses, and might actually be very detrimental to the company as a whole.

shaun98ca2 wrote: »

There are new superhero MMO's on the horizon, and one that actually looks good.

Lezard jokes but I'm actually really looking forward to League of Maidens. It's not gonna be anything great, but it looks like it'll be some good cheap fun. I don't see anything else on the horizon, just a few things off in the ether.

mithrosnomore · September 2019

jonsills wrote: »

(Fortunately for us, tabletop game publisher Hero Games was going through a bit of a financial crisis, in part because they weren't one of the big names like TSR and there was a time when if you went to a gaming store and asked for an RPG, they'd try to sell you a Magic: the Gathering deck - happened to me more than once. So Cryptic was able to negotiate the purchase of the IP for their superhero RPG Champions, then lease the tabletop rights back to Hero and make the game we all know and love, or for some I guess grudgingly tolerate, today.)

Unfortunately, perhaps, that means that now the Champions IP is owned by a Korean MMO company that probably cares not one bit about said IP beyond what the MMO makes them.

That leaves the future cloudy for the Champions IP itself, I think.

jonsills · September 2019

No, PWE doesn't own Cryptic or its IP, they're just the publisher. Cryptic purchased the IP directly from Hero, and had it under Atari, as well. (Pretty sure that purchase contract was deliberate, in order to avoid another situation like CoH where they could get the IP yanked away from them by the publisher.)

Should PWE no longer wish to be associated with Cryptic, the company would need to find another publisher (although as they hold contracts with CBS Entertainment and Wizards of the Coast, I don't imagine that would be so terribly difficult), but they'd still have their games.

stratluver · September 2019

I think you may be mistaken. I could be wrong.

https://crypticstudios.com/about

themightyzenith · September 2019

Cryptic was acquired by Perfect World in August 2011 and is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Perfect World. PW are the owner publishers.

championshewolf · September 2019

(wrong post)

championshewolf · September 2019

As stated, Champions and Cryptic has been owned by PWE for a long time now. It's why PWE logo is on Neverwinter and Star Trek Online now, and no hint of the Cryptic logo anymore. Unfortunately, for Champions at least, the damage had been done by Atari and when PWE acquired Cryptic, they basically gave them the resources to save a game. Cryptic chose STO, much as that might hurt, and was probably the wiser choice. I would love for PWE to take a chance with CO, but considering Atari's blunders and every attempt to revitlize Co met with failure due to their blunders, it is unlikely PWE investors have much faith in this product beyond small trinkets here and there.

I think Champions could do wonders if it was given an STO level overhaul but again, unlikely to happen. And because it's not happening it isn't drawing in interest from those crowds that should help it and that circle of despair will just remain constant.

Any idea what's going on with future expansions/updates?

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