(POWER BALANCE) Might

bluhman · September 2018

Might is in a bizarre position right now; ever since the Unarmed Martial Arts update, the set has been entirely eclipsed by what MA can do. Unarmed utilizes the same defense debuff that Might does, on top of another one unique to its mechanics, and then pairs this with a variety of moves that not just apply, but refresh the effect. Unarmed then gets its own custom-tailored energy unlock, and a variety of moves that have knocks in of themselves, such as inexorable tides, open palm strike, and rising knee, that then not just allow enrage stacking on a might build, but then also can trigger the Energy Unlock, and knock in patterns that are much more manageable than what Might attacks usually contain.

Might needs help, more so than ever. It's been a popular choice for years now, thanks to the impressive effect of sending people flying with roomsweeper, and its concentrated killing power from Haymaker, but the ever-so-popular art of "charging face-first into enemies and smashing them into the pavement" needs to be updated and honed into a modernized form.

Main Goals:
Might as DPS - SMASH!! SMASH!!! SMAAAASH!!!
Might needs to reflect more than just slow, strong punch. This is a set about simplicity, about brutality, and about physical superiority. Being stronger means being beefier, yes, but that can also entail being a lot faster. Might's single-target game is good by virtue of basically a single move (haymaker), but all the set dressing, while it gives plenty of nice flavorful AoE play, needs some more practical tweaking to match the likes of Heavy Weapons or Dual Blades and how they manage their AoE situations.
Probably most important is that Might needs to be simple to play. This isn't a set like Unarmed or Laser Sword where the goal is to juggle several debuffs on your enemies. Might, necessarily, should have less debuffs applied to the enemies, for easier play, and trade this off with higher damage and higher energy costs.

Superstat Focuses: STR, REC
Primary Defense Debuff: Demolish
Other Debuff: Stagger - Stagger is something that I'd explore in more depth for an Earth overhaul, but for now, some attacks here apply, and still will, utilize this debuff in order to add just a little more damage to this set's punch. As it is, the application of this debuff should be temporary, sporadic, and totally nothing more than just a bonus, not a core set mechanic.
Self-Buff: Charged Up - First utilized by a small set of Electricity powers, and then featured strongly with Laughing Zephyr in Martial Arts, Charged Up is a self-speed buff that allows the player to run, jump, and fly extremely quickly in mid-battle. This is a self-buff that could see excellent utilization in this set, due to the necessity for positioning in melee combat as well as having to chase down targets that are flying away from you.
Self-Buff: Furious - The replacement to all the automatic Enrage stacks in this set; Furious provides the set some boosts to Crit Chance on a build type generally reserved for STR-based combat and pairs this with some passive healing effects.

Might as Tank - Immovable Object
Defiance: The king of defense passives. However, it's fundamentally a flawed creation, and this really goes along with all the passives featured in this set. Defiance is an energy unlock and defense rolled into one, can reach full defensive potential without ranking up at all (though you do need to take more hits), and it curiously only scales with a single stat. Filtering all the benefits these passives give Might out into individual components, much like has been done with other sets so far, will be a goal here, but at the same time preserving the sheer defensive power that the setup grants players. In short, there'll be more ways to utilize the passives this set gives you.

Superstat Focuses: STR, CON
Buff: Aegis - Many situations where a move will grant you a stack of defiance will likely be mutated into granting you this buff instead.

Rebalances of Existing Powers
Clobber

Onslaught advantage now has a chance to apply Furious to the user.

Beatdown

AoE capability, deals powerful hits to targets in a cylinder area.
Final hit of combo knocks all targets down instead of staggering.
Blindside Blow is altered to be a 2-point advantage. This causes the last hit of the combo to Demolish the primary target.
Advantage: Each hit repels now, and the last hit knocks back. Each Beatdown attack is now a 15 foot lunge.

Defensive Combo

Applies Aegis instead of Defiant stack. The Surge of Strength advantage will also only apply Aegis.
Final hit still hits in a large radius around the main target, but also will now use the uppercut to knock the target vertically.
Enrage's Endorphin Rush advantage is placed here now (see Enrage for why.) Endorphin Rush's heal will trigger when you knock targets for 8 seconds after you gain the buff. The heal also becomes more potent when under the effect of Furious.
New Advantage: Finishing Defensive Combo refreshes the duration of any Furious stacks on you.
New Advantage: Removes inherent threat on the combo. In place, each hit has a chance to apply Disorient (25/25/100)

Mighty Kick

Madness advantage applies Aegis instead of Defiant.
New Advantage: Refreshes the duration of your Demolish debuff.

Hurl

Enemies hit by this are knocked back as well as snared.
Strong Arm advantage is phased out.
Advantage: Applies Demolish to the target.
Advantage: If standing within 10 feet of an object you can lift up, the object gets thrown along with your Hurl and does its own effects as well. (think a very short-ranged version of Telepathy)

Roomsweeper

Higher damage dealt (maybe move this to Tier 2?)
Vertical Knock occurs against targets who are: Held (slept, stunned, etc), Rooted, or Demolished.
Full-charge hits apply Furious to the user, and refresh Enrage's duration.
Advantage: Full-charge applies the Charged Up buff for closing distance quickly.

Defiance

Has a base passive effect: percent damage resistance that scales with your superstats, as well as minor damage subtraction.
As you take damage, you can gain Defiant stacks, which act as usual. You can gain up to 3 of these stacks.
Oh right, stacking doesn't get you energy anymore.
Depending on power rank, the base passive effect is roughly equivalent to 1-3 defiance stacks in power.

Unstoppable

Generates energy when you take damage, instead of when you knock a target. The effect only occurs once every 6 seconds.
Minor resistance to all damage on top of existing damage subtraction.

Retaliation

Retaliation Buff applies damage and only is consumed by your next melee or ranged attack. Effects such as DoTs or Energy Builders will not consume the effect or gain any benefit.
New Advantage: As you make melee attacks, Retaliation provides a passive defensive effect that increases your damage resistance considerably, but causes you to deal 10% less melee damage. The benefit of this advantage scales with Strength. Note that unlike Elusive Monk or Laser Knight, it doesn't offer knock resistance, favoring more raw damage mitigation. 3 point cost.

Mighty Leap

New Advantage: Deals out a tiny push-back effect that cancels out current knock. (might not work as intended...)
Other New Advantage in case the Other One Doesn't Work: If your target is more than 20 feet away from you after you complete a lunge, you gain a stack of Charged Up.

Enrage

Endorphin Rush advantage removed: this was an unfair advantage that this toggle had over Aspect of the Bestial, as well as basically all the other toggles, and considering MA's toggles got all their tweaks moved to powers....
Endorphin Rush advantage moved to Defensive Combo.

Uppercut

New Advantage: Refreshes Demolish's duration.
New Advantage: Full-charging applies Clinging Flames to your target.

Demolish

Applies the Demolish buff with a longer duration than other moves (30 seconds instead of 15)
Advantage: All hits refresh the duration of Furious.
Advantage: Swaps out the Demolish effect for Burn Through, while also refreshing Particle Burn stacks.

Thunderclap

Hitting multiple targets can stack Furious on you, replacing the Enrage stack condition.
Collateral Damage keeps damage purely Crushing.
New Advantage: Applies restoration effect to self when used.

Haymaker

The Uppercut->Haymaker combo still exists, but instead grants the user a full stack of 3 Furious instead of 2 Enrage.
Advantage: Deal 30% extra damage if you have a stack of Furious.

Havoc Stomp

Another Enrage->Furious conversion.
Hit area widened to 20 feet. Make up for the attack being so slow.
Advantage: For 1 point, this swaps out Furious application for an Aegis application, providing more defense.
Advantage: Full-charge applies the Charged Up buff to the user.

Shockwave

Did they change this to do crushing damage? I think they did. In any case, make sure it isn't doing sonic damage.
Advantage: Deal maintained bonus melee damage to any targets within 10 feet of you.

Nuclear Shockwave

Make it actually do sizable damage??
Ends Demolish stacks on hit targets to deal 30% extra crushing damage.
Applies the Burn Through debuff on all targets hit.
Advantage: Refreshes duration of Particle Burn on your Primary target.

New Powers

Basher
For you, Fighting's like Breathing. Comes naturally, and it ain't no sweat.

T1 Energy Unlock
Regain energy whenever you land any melee attack while under the effect of Furious.
Regain energy whenever you take a hit with Aegis on you.
Scales best with STR, and just a tad with REC.

Body blow
Throws your opponent off with a gut-punch that leaves them winded.

T1 Single-Target click
Deals moderate crushing damage and attempts an interrupt.
Minor cooldown.
Advantage: Refreshes demolish on your target.
Advantage: Refreshes your Furious stacks.
Advantage: Landing this attack applies the Sudden Strike buff to yourself.

Piledriver
While you aren't any wrestling pro, you do know how to drive people into the ground.

T2 Cone charge attack that attempts a hold/root on an enemy.
Failed roots knock the target down.
On a full charge, and if vulnerable to it, the given targets gets embedded in the ground and immediately becomes knock resistant.
Advantage: Refreshes Demolish on all targets hit.
Advantage: 25-100% chance to be staggered
Advantage: Applies clinging flames and knocks all targets vertically once Piledriver's hold runs out.

Take a Breather
Mastery of your own body's capabilities allows you to heal up when you need it.

T2 self-heal charge
Heals a set amount of health in a burst, regardless of charge
Charging causes the heal to morph gradually into a 10 second HoT effect.
Use taps to do high-energy-cost emergency heals, and use charges to prepare for combat in advance... Of course, don't waste all battle doing nothing but Taking Breathers.
Advantage: Fully-charging applies Aegis to you.
Advantage: Causes the heal to radiate as a 15 ft AoE to allies.

Beefy Lariat
You don't need a chain, just swing your arms around in a huge circle to cause pain to anyone nearby.

T2 PBAoE Maintain, deals crushing damage to surrounding targets while knocking them down.
If affected by Furious, enemies might be knocked vertically instead.
Advantage: Enemies slightly outside your range (20 feet) have a chance to be knocked inwards.
Advantage: While maintaining, you generate a growing shield of damage absorption.

Obliterate
Throws out a lightning fast dash punch out of nowhere! In case waiting for your haymakers isn't your style.

T3 single-target click lunge with a 20 foot range. When used, you dash in and punch your target for a high damage spike.
Knocks the target back.
Has a minor cooldown.
Advantage: Obliterate causes 10% more damage for each stack of Furious you have on yourself.
Advantage: When used on a non-knock-resistant target, Obliterate applies Charged Up to you.
Advantage: You dash through the target and stun them instead of knocking them back. Applies the Sudden Strike buff to yourself.

Unyielding Form
For a few seconds you can tap into your inner-strength and become an inspiring, invincible force.

Ultimate Active Defense (puts other ADs on cooldown)
Applies the protection buff to the user (see force thread)
400% damage resist, knock resist, and hold resistance for 15/20/25 seconds
Causes all damage to generate increased threat.
Advantage: Reflects some incoming damage back to attackers once every 0.5 seconds. The effect only occurs during the first half of the AD.
Advantage: Wipes threat from surrounding allies on use. Effect does not work on allies in Tank role. 1 pt. advantage.

bluhman · October 2018

I'm bumping this.

After taking time to review how the set operates at a low level, I believe it might need a little more tune-up, as it's extremely reliant on using Roomsweeper + Mighty Leap to deal with most to all situations for levels 5-15. However I have learned that Roomsweeper is extremely fun at these levels because basically any mob that gets hit by a full-charge of it dies. Not so lucky to have this luxury against higher-level targets however.

Hopefully having Beatdown actually be usable would help a lot now.

To anyone curious that noticed I didn't list the chain attacks (iron lash, iron cyclone, iron lariat), those abilities all operate really well with Might's Enrage style, but they also don't get at the heart of what Might is. I don't think I've ever seen a good ol' tights superhero like Supes throw whips and chains around while fighting. Most of this is talking about giving the bare-knuckle super-strength tights some better options.

beerbane · October 2018

Like the suggestions - particularly think moving damage away from Sonic on some of the moves (possibly making Sonic damage an added/replacement option a la Unarmed) helps the set and power variety.

jebidiahbeetus · October 2018

I want a new Might maintain power. 100 Hands is the only arm maintain we have but it isn't realistic if your hero isn't superpowered. I picture something similar Wield Earth's melee animation, a universal punching attack that could suit just about any concept. (every character in CO has arms after all)

chaosdrgnz43 · October 2018

I'd rather have more Enrage/Demolish refresher than Reckless. Reckless isn't a very useful buff anyway. (Unless your a dex-stacker and have sh*t Knock Resistance) Plus, Might needs more ways to stack Enrage fast since Form of the Tiger just gets stack per full charge. FotT was touched slightly but it's stacking bug wasn't fixed.

pwestolemyname · October 2018

bluhman wrote: »

To anyone curious that noticed I didn't list the chain attacks (iron lash, iron cyclone, iron lariat), those abilities all operate really well with Might's Enrage style, but they also don't get at the heart of what Might is. I don't think I've ever seen a good ol' tights superhero like Supes throw whips and chains around while fighting. Most of this is talking about giving the bare-knuckle super-strength tights some better options.

Might really needs some AOE collection powers that do not rely on chains. I love the Vortex Technique advantage, but it does tend to be out of theme for many Might builds. "Floor Ripple" or something like that might be good, where you hit the ground and everyone bumps towards you. A maintain like the chain attacks in a circle.

bluhman · October 2018

chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »

I'd rather have more Enrage/Demolish refresher than Reckless. Reckless isn't a very useful buff anyway. (Unless your a dex-stacker and have sh*t Knock Resistance) Plus, Might needs more ways to stack Enrage fast since Form of the Tiger just gets stack per full charge. FotT was touched slightly but it's stacking bug wasn't fixed.

This is all understandable!

So one of the aims of the changes I'm suggesting is to essentially turn the enrage-stacking mechanics into reckless-stacking ones. Makes the most sense to me since Reckless is a buff utilized already by Heavy Weapons a bit, and backs up the kind of mechanics that Might already uses. Then there's also the fact that Reckless stacks knock resist on a build-type that's likely to be using STR already as a superstat and then pairs this on top of a passive that grants substantial knock resistance. Yeah.

In reality I actually feel like maybe the powerset could benefit from using Furious more (more crit-chance on a low-crit build, and a passive heal), but that buff already has strong rooting in sets associated with critical hits, what with Munitions. Then again it's also tied in a bit with bestial which is also a STR-based melee set, so might be worth looking at...?

That aside, turning Reckless into a useful buff is something I hope to achieve here with some attacks. Stuff like Obliterate and the Beefy Lariat trigger damage bonuses or special effects off of the buff.

The big thing is that a lot of the Enrage-stacking mechanics are kind of broken at a fundamental level. You can stack Enrage up to 8 times just by using them without even having to take a toggle form, and it still grants you energy, raises your damage... You can even use IDF at the same time as using Enrage stacking. No other powersets (that have been looked at) do that anymore. That said, many of the redone powersets are sticking pretty hard-line to the "stack only once per 3 seconds" rule.

I included a fair number of Demolish refreshers in there as well, stuff that make some lesser-used attacks like Uppercut or Mighty Kick.

Definitely gonna see what I can do about maybe changing most of the Reckless occurrences to Furious, or some other more-beneficial mechanic.

chaosdrgnz43 · October 2018

I thought of a need Might Ult from looking at EBP,

Seething Rage
Toggle (like EBP)

Deals constant x Crushing+Fire damage around 25ft for 15secs (hits 10 times)
Damage increases the more Enrage stacks you have.
15%/20%/25% chance to apply Clinging Flames depending on rank
Optional: Applies Overpower
Battle Spirit - 1pt adv that gives threat per dmg tick.

theravenforce · October 2018

I would like to see Might bring a new Active Defensive into the game:

Stand Your Ground - Ultimate Active Defensive

"Something about the way you stand ready in battle, allows you to take hits most would rush to avoid."

- 30ft AoE threat soak / redirect all threat from allies to self. (Overrides Challenge! threat modifiers)
- Incredible Damage Resistance, Knock Resistance and Damage Shield for 15/20/25 seconds
- Charged Active Defensive (was thinking of a way to make it so that multiple people could pop off at the same time and mess up the boss or enemies etc)

Advantage: Bullets just...

- Deals reflective damage back to the attackers for the first half of the duration of this ability.

^ This is a variation of an idea I've proposed before but for Force and actually a Psionic Reflective Shield for Telepathy / TK...I think this could work quite well for Might though...but would need tweaking.

I really do like the idea of threat re-direction outside of Challenge for tanks, like an emergency threat button if things go screwy.

bluhman · October 2018

chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »

Seething Rage

So EBP is something I've been leery of ever since it got introduced because it's heavily and very possibly the ultimate meta melee ultimate right now. Hey, here's free continuous damage you can do to all enemies nearby you while you're basically free to do anything else. Also here's a few but still extremely overpowered abilities that also happen to grant you a buff that restores energy over time so that the one drawback of this ultimate is mitigated! Hmm!

Incidentally, Rush isn't even utilized by Telekinesis even though it still uses focus and theoretically would be the one utilizing this ultimate the most. Gotta whip out some real blades or throw a punch to get your rush going on I guess.

I do kind of like the thought, though. My main concern is that, in terms of concept, it totally doesn't fit what Might is about, which is huge bursts of damage thrown by punches (same reason why people initially weren't wild about Catastrophic Onslaught - big maintained series of punches that self-root isn't that fun!). However, this totally is a good idea for perhaps some other sets or utlimates. So much so that I might even have to examine the idea in more depth in another thread!

theravenforce wrote: »

Stand Your Ground - Ultimate Active Defensive

A fan of this. Yeah one thing that's actually been inspiring me a bit these past few days has been replaying the original Starcraft (i.e. when attempting to redo force, was examining a lot of how the Protoss' shields worked versus the armor/repair and regen of the Terrans and Zerg). One unit, Arbiters, got all these real cool mechanics such as the Stasis thing (really strong CC element and totally how it should function here I'd say - untargetable victims, big AoE, takes them out of the fight completely...)

And then there's their biggest flaw, which is that they cloak everyone around them, but then are themselves not big meatshields, meaning, well, either the opponent has detectors and just fights normally anyways, or the entire enemy force starts out by focusing on your expensive Arbiters, so they're the first to die.

But then there's still the core idea of forcing the enemy to attack this thing first, no matter what, which I really like, and is a mechanic I'd say could be explored in an MMO setting like this! My one issue is the ability for it to override Challenge effects gives it some Troll potential... I'll have to think through how that could be solved or mitigated.

Good feedback, good expansions!

theravenforce · October 2018

Yeah, my main idea behind the Challenge override...was just that if another tank applies it and negates the effect...

However, thinking about it...if you already absorb all threat and create a new mechanic which means the target only sees you as a threat for that duration...it wouldn't need to override Challenge?

As for the trolling...perhaps have it only work in a certain role (Tank Role)?

kjodell · October 2018

Defiance: you know it's the pop of energy defiance gives you that allows you to well defy your opponent, otherwise it should just be called meat shield
likes most everything else I read
Beefy Lariat I'm having trouble envisioning it, would it be like sword cyclone but without swords
oh and might needs its own version of one hundred hands* (one that's not an ultimate)
* and if it gave out a shield like Eye of the Storm that would be good

barebones · November 2018

Another idea for a might energy unlock is one that works like supernatural power where you get a burst of energy every time you use a might power that drops your energy below 15%

bluhman · November 2018

kjodell wrote: »

Defiance: you know it's the pop of energy defiance gives you that allows you to well defy your opponent, otherwise it should just be called meat shield
likes most everything else I read
Beefy Lariat I'm having trouble envisioning it, would it be like sword cyclone but without swords
oh and might needs its own version of one hundred hands* (one that's not an ultimate)
* and if it gave out a shield like Eye of the Storm that would be good

I believe Defiance is named in reference to the phrase of "Defying death". Even outside of that when referring to power names, that's just balance. No other defense passive just straight-up grants you energy. You could probably make similar arguments as to why Regeneration should give you energy, or heck, PFF at that rate.

Beefy Lariat: Yeah that's basically what it'd probably look like. Here's a visual reference demonstrated by my good friend, Zangief.

OHH reskin: The niche of strong cone melee would probably be filled already by an upgraded Roomsweeper, and I'd hope the end result of a properly-balanced Beatdown combo would outclass what One-Hundred Hands does. I mean that aside, I have no idea what an OHH-style variant would do for might aside from like... Knock on maintain finish? Which is already kind of what the Ult already does. OHH already is a crushing-damage attack that can apply Demolish and applies a debuff that can trigger an END-scaling EU that Might can use, considering how many attacks in MA also do knock.

barebones#2880 wrote: »

Another idea for a might energy unlock is one that works like supernatural power where you get a burst of energy every time you use a might power that drops your energy below 15%

In no circumstance, since Wild Thing/Mephitic have come out, have I preferred Supernatural Power over those two because it's so bad unless you're using attacks that are maintains. That essentially limits you to either Epidemic or Thrash, because otherwise much like Might the supernatural set is very charge-heavy. The current way that most modern EUs work has hit a nice stride compared to a lot of older ones, and I'd imagine something more like this would work better for such a charge-heavy set like this.

jebidiahbeetus · November 2018

aiqa · November 2018

The Haymaker adv is a bit odd. I don't think the a power should get a 30% base damage scaling from a resistance debuff. Other sets keep that separated too.

bluhman · November 2018

aiqa wrote: »

The Haymaker adv is a bit odd. I don't think the a power should get a 30% base damage scaling from a resistance debuff. Other sets keep that separated too.

It's based on how Burning Chi Fist got its Shattering Strike adv. Which works exactly the same to the best of my knowledge. Since stagger isn't a huge component on how this set operates (and the setup above doesn't strongly emphasize refreshing or maintaining the debuff) I'd say it's about the only viable option it has right now, though an alternative could be engineered.

aiqa · November 2018

bluhman wrote: »

aiqa wrote: »

The Haymaker adv is a bit odd. I don't think the a power should get a 30% base damage scaling from a resistance debuff. Other sets keep that separated too.

It's based on how Burning Chi Fist got its Shattering Strike adv. Which works exactly the same to the best of my knowledge. Since stagger isn't a huge component on how this set operates (and the setup above doesn't strongly emphasize refreshing or maintaining the debuff) I'd say it's about the only viable option it has right now, though an alternative could be engineered.

Unarmed MA is a very unusual setup compared to any other reviewed set. All other sets have a specific proc status effect and a resistance debuff. And about Unarmed MA in general, even though it's nice to have a set work a bit differently I don't like the overall setup and interactions of that set at all.

Having stagger as a big part of the current set isn't really important when considering a review I think. For example, Clinging Flames was never a big part of HW before the review, but it is now. Though for stagger to get a more central role it would need to be stripped of the generic -resist and get something else in return.

(POWER BALANCE) Might

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