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How To Know You Are Doing Something Wrong At Cosmics in 3 Easy Steps (and how to fix it!)

lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
edited October 2019 in Missions and Content
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  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    Leave suggestions/feedback below \o/

    I will revise this later cause by the end it was getting late and I had to leave. Also I will add a CC section in the future \o/​​
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    Neuroelectric Pulse power with Recharge adv is a good AoE heal as well
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Understanding how blocking works at cosmics is sorta important (see my signature), except Kigatilik who has no interesting mechanics; the only thing you have to know about blocking at Kigatilik is that his passive aura can't be blocked.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Yeah I agree on the blocking thing. Lots of people seem to think that as long as they're holding block at the time the attack hits, they should be safe.

    Also I think you could add Showdown to the list of ultimates to use at the DPS checks. If you start charging it up as soon as the buff icon pops up, it'll fire all throughout the length of the check, and I think it does really good damage, doesn't it?
    biffsig.jpg
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    biffsmackwell wrote: »
    Also I think you could add Showdown to the list of ultimates to use at the DPS checks. If you start charging it up as soon as the buff icon pops up, it'll fire all throughout the length of the check, and I think it does really good damage, doesn't it?
    Showdown is tricky to use, as you really want to start charging it during the pre-buff animation; if you start late its damage won't be all that good.
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  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Oh yeah I guess I meant the BOOM icon not the buff. You really have to be on the ball to use it to its full potential in that fight but if you can predict when she's gonna start, you should be able to maintain all through the buff.
    biffsig.jpg
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    Gravity Driver, Catastrophic Pummeling and Showdown are all good Ultimates for checks, but they are not easy to use since they require timing and optimization.

    THUS, I left them out of my easy fixes \o/​​
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    Fair 'nuff.
    biffsig.jpg
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,535 Arc User
    If you are dying a lot (especially at kiga, but also dino) you should stand next to people with Pillar of Poz (etc.) and who are using powers like Life Drain (etc.). I am always surprised at the number of people who don't huddle in closer to healers at kiga.
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  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    If you are dying a lot (especially at kiga, but also dino) you should stand next to people with Pillar of Poz (etc.) and who are using powers like Life Drain (etc.). I am always surprised at the number of people who don't huddle in closer to healers at kiga.

    Probably because they assume if you're not using Healing Powers A, B or C, or not built a Pure Healer with Presence Prime then it's not healing, even tho their are advantages/options/Pre Secondary builds... or they're dependent on how other healers perform because your heals don't met expectations of others, or too busy self healing cause they are inclined to being self reliant.
    Post edited by rtma on
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  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 745 Arc User
    You forgot to mention about being in a (Melee or Range) DPS role in the DPS section.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    If you are dying a lot (especially at kiga, but also dino) you should stand next to people with Pillar of Poz (etc.) and who are using powers like Life Drain (etc.). I am always surprised at the number of people who don't huddle in closer to healers at kiga.
    Area heal powers have target caps, huddling in closer just means you get healing at the expense of someone else. Unless you know you have more than average need for heals, I'd avoid crowding the healer.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,535 Arc User
    If I were dying from kiga's storms and saw someone using pillar of poz I think I'd risk moving a couple of feet to see if I can pick up some extra heals. Better than doing nothing and dying. I know I try to position my dpses in the pillar of poz ring whenever I can.
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 773 Arc User
    The most important thing from the tanking section is missing; be in tank role.
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  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I suggest adding "You are standing in the wrong place. Stand with the players who are not dying a lot" to the DPS' dying a lot section. This is especially true for Dinomom's tail. Somewhat true for Qwyjibo's breath.
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  • zamuelpwezamuelpwe Posts: 668 Arc User
    For dying, I would add "Do not summon pets: In some situations pet placement will aggro various attacks from the cosmic." I most commonly notice this with tail swipes from dino.
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  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    kamokami wrote: »
    I suggest adding "You are standing in the wrong place. Stand with the players who are not dying a lot" to the DPS' dying a lot section. This is especially true for Dinomom's tail. Somewhat true for Qwyjibo's breath.

    Updated with this.

    Not adding the Tank Role for Tank section and DPS role for DPS section cause hey, if you manage to make an Hybrid build that does not suffer from any of the 3 points detailed in the respective section, then all the power to you!

    Will update with CC section sometime tomorrow​​
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    I always assumed that being in tail range is what triggers the tail swipe. So if you're not triggering it, a pet walking into trigger range will get swiped but you'd be safe. Is this true?
    biffsig.jpg
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 745 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    lezard21 wrote: »
    Not adding the Tank Role for Tank section and DPS role for DPS section cause hey, if you manage to make an Hybrid build that does not suffer from any of the 3 points detailed in the respective section, then all the power to you!​​
    The problem arose with how some tanks think they're DPS and would never move to the tanking position, or does worse DPS than a hybrid. Hybrid itself is an iffy side of everything considering they might or might not do enough damage to even warrant the DPS part, or gods know what build they're using.
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  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    biffsmackwell wrote: »
    I always assumed that being in tail range is what triggers the tail swipe. So if you're not triggering it, a pet walking into trigger range will get swiped but you'd be safe. Is this true?

    True
    qawsada wrote: »
    lezard21 wrote: »
    Not adding the Tank Role for Tank section and DPS role for DPS section cause hey, if you manage to make an Hybrid build that does not suffer from any of the 3 points detailed in the respective section, then all the power to you!
    The problem arose with how some tanks think they're DPS and would never move to the tanking position, or does worse DPS than a hybrid. Hybrid itself is an iffy side of everything considering they might or might not do enough damage to even warrant the DPS part, or gods know what build they're using.

    I kinda covered this in the "Don't aggro fight" segment of tanking​​
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    Hybrids can do *enough* DPS, not great DPS but also not terrible DPS
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Hybrids can do *enough* DPS, not great DPS but also not terrible DPS
    In general the people who care enough about optimization to do good dps with a hybrid also care enough about optimization to not use a hybrid to dps.
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  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 745 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »

    I kinda covered this in the "Don't aggro fight" segment of tanking​​
    These tanks don't generally fight for aggro. They just bring their tank and just auto attack or something close to it. Some of these tank excuse that they're AT or survivability. Sometime, they even have giant growth that shove DPS out of the position.

    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Hybrids can do *enough* DPS, not great DPS but also not terrible DPS
    They could, but how many can actually do the bare minimum? I play too many dinos to know that if a run has more Hybrids than a DPS, its an infinite dino.
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  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    I dont know, I dont pay attention to how many are present at any cosmic to be fair. All Im saying is we shouldnt just instantly blame it on hybrids for longer runs.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    I dont know, I dont pay attention to how many are present at any cosmic to be fair. All Im saying is we shouldnt just instantly blame it on hybrids for longer runs.
    A good player running a Hybrid is better than a bad player running DPS.

    Also....
    "Get a power that applies a Healing Rune (Moonstruck, Pillar of Poz, Expulse)"
    Pyre has a healing rune adv. Obviously that's a charge and thus not as quick, but it's there.
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  • zamuelpwezamuelpwe Posts: 668 Arc User
    biffsmackwell wrote: »
    I always assumed that being in tail range is what triggers the tail swipe. So if you're not triggering it, a pet walking into trigger range will get swiped but you'd be safe. Is this true?

    I actually thought the size of the tail aoe was bigger than the detection range. Don't get me wrong, I've goofed before but there's times I've noticed I don't get hit until I see something else move in that range.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,114 Arc User
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Neuroelectric Pulse power with Recharge adv is a good AoE heal as well

    Is not an AoE heal.

    An overlooked one is Circle of Radiant Glory. Take it to r3. Set it down (pretty short charge up). Then tap it every so often. Decent AoE heal and if you die while inside it, you get rezzed.​​
    .

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  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 745 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    markhawkman wrote: »
    A good player running a Hybrid is better than a bad player running DPS.
    Except there like one or two Hybrid that even meet that requirement and they are better off using a DPS role. Most of the hybrids, from what I seen in Dino, are worse dps than bad dps role user.

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    A good player running a Hybrid is better than a bad player running DPS.
    That's mostly the empty set, though. A good player is very unlikely to be running a hybrid in any situation where dps checks are relevant (sometimes at Kigatilik you have unneeded tanks, and they may stand to the side, using hybrid role because more dps and less likely to steal aggro from MT, but Kigatilik has no meaningful dps checks).
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  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Neuroelectric Pulse power with Recharge adv is a good AoE heal as well

    Is not an AoE heal.

    An overlooked one is Circle of Radiant Glory. Take it to r3. Set it down (pretty short charge up). Then tap it every so often. Decent AoE heal and if you die while inside it, you get rezzed.

    But... that one was already mentioned in the OP normal-13.gif​​
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    3- You are unable to keep Yourself alive
    Solution:
    • Get Bountiful Chi Resurgence
    • Get Bionic Shielding
    • Get a Healing Rune
    • Get a Shield (Mindful Reinforcement works really well)
    • Get Unbreakable/Masterful Dodge (MD works really well with Bountiful Chi Resurgence's Resurgent Reiki adv)
    • Get a Self Rez
    • Get a Threat Wipe
    • Check your spec tree (Presence's Selfless Ally is your best friend)
    ​​

    Conviction works on this list as well.
    (surprised it isn't honestly, but at the same time you made me realize that BCR's really good if you don't give a damn about DPS. (i usually give a damn about dps)
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  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac
    poptartmaniac#8493
         Posts: 246 Arc User
    Don't forget the uhh, max melee range at kigatilik
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,114 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    warcanch wrote: »
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Neuroelectric Pulse power with Recharge adv is a good AoE heal as well

    Is not an AoE heal.

    An overlooked one is Circle of Radiant Glory. Take it to r3. Set it down (pretty short charge up). Then tap it every so often. Decent AoE heal and if you die while inside it, you get rezzed.

    But... that one was already mentioned in the OP normal-13.gif

    Oh. I didn't open that "spoiler" button. Good job including it. Carry on.​​
    .

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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,114 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    poptartmaniac#8493 wrote: »
    Don't forget the uhh, max melee range at kigatilik

    There are only 2 reasons to be at max melee range at Kigatilitk.

    1. The Main Tank is too far forward and Kigatiliks big charge up blast is AoE, centered on the primary target, and hits them.
    2. Kigatiliks breath (and Qwyjibo) sometimes comes from the sides or a bit of the ... rear.


    #1 can be easily avoided if the MT is backed up against the edge of their pedestal. Then the charge up won't hit melee, unless they get up on the same pedestal.

    #2 is a bug. If you're dying a lot because of this location, change to a better location.​​
    .

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  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,529 Arc User
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Hybrids can do *enough* DPS, not great DPS but also not terrible DPS
    In general the people who care enough about optimization to do good dps with a hybrid also care enough about optimization to not use a hybrid to dps.

    That's why I use Hybrid to DPS when needed and Heal when needed. (Or in the rare Eidolon runs I participate in, become some weird safety net for when everything goes wrong.)

    Back on topic though, guide's good. I would add in that for DPS, it is much better that they take a fitting DPS role instead of using Hybrid in order to maximize output (especially for DPS Checks). A tank going Hybrid to reduce threat output for the designated main tank is fine, but a DPS using Hybrid even though mostly everything else about their build screams "DPS" should definitely opt in to just having more damage.​​
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  • poptartmaniac#8493 poptartmaniac
    poptartmaniac#8493
         Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    > @warcanch
    > There are only 2 reasons to be at max melee range at Kigatilitk.
    >
    > 1. The Main Tank is too far forward and Kigatiliks big charge up blast is AoE, centered on the primary target, and hits them.
    > 2. Kigatiliks breath (and Qwyjibo) sometimes comes from the sides or a bit of the ... rear.
    >
    >
    > #1 can be easily avoided if the MT is backed up against the edge of their pedestal. Then the charge up won't hit melee, unless they get up on the same pedestal.
    >
    > #2 is a bug. If you're dying a lot because of this location, change to a better location.​​

    Breath always hits on the back sides as most cone aoes do, their weird. And is anoying in qwyjibo when theres a lot of melee so no room directly behind him

    Still I would add the warning to be at max melee range for both tanks and dps to be safe
  • ordinaryplayer#2642 ordinaryplayer
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         Posts: 51 Arc User
    You can probably add the healer "You are unable to keep Yourself alive" healer stuff to dps.

    i.e. Healer Heals work too, just don't set auto assist on. Plus If they're not playing High Con (Conviction) or Dodge (BCR), other options might be better.

    DSP option "But my heal sucks and i'm still dying" Setting your Innate, and leveling talents to have a bit of pre (10Pre/+10form/+10con innate, or +5pre/+5ss tallent) can give your heals a 10-20% boost without loosing much dps/con/SS.

    A whole rank, for stats you might have thrown away randomly is a good deal. Those split R5 mods in secondaries work too.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Hybrids can do *enough* DPS, not great DPS but also not terrible DPS
    In general the people who care enough about optimization to do good dps with a hybrid also care enough about optimization to not use a hybrid to dps.
    That's a REALLY broad generalization and not always true. Characters that show up to cosmics may or may not have been built for it.
    deadman20 wrote: »
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Hybrids can do *enough* DPS, not great DPS but also not terrible DPS
    In general the people who care enough about optimization to do good dps with a hybrid also care enough about optimization to not use a hybrid to dps.
    That's why I use Hybrid to DPS when needed and Heal when needed. (Or in the rare Eidolon runs I participate in, become some weird safety net for when everything goes wrong.)

    Back on topic though, guide's good. I would add in that for DPS, it is much better that they take a fitting DPS role instead of using Hybrid in order to maximize output (especially for DPS Checks). A tank going Hybrid to reduce threat output for the designated main tank is fine, but a DPS using Hybrid even though mostly everything else about their build screams "DPS" should definitely opt in to just having more damage.​​
    Unless it's an AT which is stuck like that, or the player is one of those who hates being squish. I have six characters and it's only the guy who's "DPS role + passive + spleen" who actually needs to worry about storms at Kiga. He's not actually even a glass cannon character. Then there's Lautna who's the epitome of a Hybrid as she's one of those "offensive powers + Defensive passive" characters who also has an ally rez because reasons. Reasons which include... rezzing people in Cybermind, rezzing people in Gravitar…. not-dying-while-trying-to-rez-an-ally.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    If there are too many melee at the cosmic and this is making it difficult for you, level up a ranged toon that you can switch to when that happens in the future.​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    shadowolf505 wrote: »
    Hybrids can do *enough* DPS, not great DPS but also not terrible DPS
    In general the people who care enough about optimization to do good dps with a hybrid also care enough about optimization to not use a hybrid to dps.
    That's a REALLY broad generalization and not always true. Characters that show up to cosmics may or may not have been built for it.
    People who don't choose to build for DPS are rarely good at it.
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Unless it's an AT which is stuck like that, or the player is one of those who hates being squish.
    Okay, I'll make an exception for Night Avenger. Other than that, well, if you hate being a squish give your dps builds 10k hp. You'll still have better dps than a hybrid.
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    Man, I really expected this to start with
    1. Turn on Zone.
    2. Read Zone and follow directions.
    3. Don't do stuff the other 30 people aren't doing.
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  • shredmonkey#6879 shredmonkey
    shredmonkey#6879
         Posts: 60 Arc User
    True enough info here. I think the blocking and standing in correct spots are really the most critical. The list of good attack powers is long enough that hopefully most people have one if them, even if they went 100 percent theme. So the main takeaway there is to know which power you should be spamming and spam it.
  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 773 Arc User
    Most tanks use NPG as part of their main threat rotation, so they're mostly going to be as close to the main mob as possible, to make sure that's hitting it, I would owe it to the dps to stand back as far as possible from Kiga.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    nbkxs wrote: »
    Most tanks use NPG as part of their main threat rotation, so they're mostly going to be as close to the main mob as possible, to make sure that's hitting it, I would owe it to the dps to stand back as far as possible from Kiga.

    It's actually pretty standard now for tanks to stand as far back on the platform as possible. Doing otherwise is just asking for an extremely long Kiga run. After all, it's much easier for 1 tank with plenty of room to move back, than it is for a bunch of melee stuck in the melee pile. The tank can keep aggro without NPG.​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    nbkxs wrote: »
    Most tanks use NPG as part of their main threat rotation.
    Well, they should learn better. NPG is unsafe to use at Kiga (it puts you too close to Kiga) and completely unusable at Dino (it can't hit her due to funky hitbox). Use a better device.
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  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    spinnytop wrote: »
    If there are too many melee at the cosmic and this is making it difficult for you, level up a ranged toon that you can switch to when that happens in the future.​​

    Uhhh, if the melee toon is the one that needs the GCR this is problematic. But if you're just there to help out on the cosmic, okay then.

    Also problematic advice if you only have one slot available (and that's your only toon) to play since there are no subs anymore (not everyone is a Lifetime Subber).

    EDIT: I would say try to find a position where you can stand as melee that makes it less difficult for you without making it more difficult for everyone else.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    darqaura2 wrote: »
    Uhhh, if the melee toon is the one that needs the GCR this is problematic.

    Well the great thing about your newly leveled up ranged toon is that it also needs GCR.
    darqaura2 wrote: »
    Also problematic advice if you only have one slot available (and that's your only toon) to play since there are no subs anymore (not everyone is a Lifetime Subber).

    Everyone starts with 2 slots. If you filled all your slots with melee toons then, well... that's not a choice I would have made o3o​​
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  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    darqaura2 wrote: »
    Uhhh, if the melee toon is the one that needs the GCR this is problematic.

    Well the great thing about your newly leveled up ranged toon is that it also needs GCR.
    darqaura2 wrote: »
    Also problematic advice if you only have one slot available (and that's your only toon) to play since there are no subs anymore (not everyone is a Lifetime Subber).

    Everyone starts with 2 slots. If you filled all your slots with melee toons then, well... that's not a choice I would have made o3o​​

    Except it is a choice many would have made prior to the changes in subs for this game. Some folks like playing melee toons only for various reasons. Saying make a ranged toon when you don't have the slot to do so may not be the best advice, or feasible. Especially since the way some folks have access to those slots has drastically changed.

    With that said some of the advice in this thread can definitely help anyone, regardless of whether they have a ranged or melee toon. Which I thought was the point of the thread.
  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Posts: 274 Arc User
    lezard21 wrote: »
    Gravity Driver, Catastrophic Pummeling and Showdown are all good Ultimates for checks, but they are not easy to use since they require timing and optimization.

    THUS, I left them out of my easy fixes \o/​​

    I would think that using Gravity Driver during DPS checks would be wanted though since it applies a 20% defense debuff to the target(s) hit for 12 seconds. Meaning everyone does more damage.

    Only thing I wonder is does that debuff stack if multiple people use it?
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  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Posts: 274 Arc User
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    A good player running a Hybrid is better than a bad player running DPS.
    That's mostly the empty set, though. A good player is very unlikely to be running a hybrid in any situation where dps checks are relevant (sometimes at Kigatilik you have unneeded tanks, and they may stand to the side, using hybrid role because more dps and less likely to steal aggro from MT, but Kigatilik has no meaningful dps checks).

    I run a hybrid build which works out especially well against Kiga as I can basically ignore the storms because of the defensive passive and still do a reasonable amount of damage.

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