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Character stance rework
dianella
Posts: 32 Arc User
As a longtime player of Champions online, and member of the LGBTQ+ community, Champions has always had a large draw in for its customization options. However one being the character stances, has yet to provide a full reflection of realism for players to explore. The Vixen stance being female exclusive, and with times changing would be likely well received if it were made available for all genders. Opinions? Should CO evolve with the times, and become more gender inclusive?
Character stance rework 48 votes
Yes, I would like to see this option available for all characters.
83%
40 votes
No, I would not care for this.
16%
8 votes
0
Comments
FALSE EYE LASHES ON MEN. But they stand as though their about to chest bump their bros... It makes no sense overall not to allow the vixen pose for male characters.
Apparently..and I’m paraphrasing here, every moment and etc would have to be redone for each stance. So it’s not a simple add stances...
In fact, for moods they do not know how to add more. How that is possible...dunno, but there it is.
I doubt each stance/movement/walk would have to be redone in order to add in a stance that is already coded in the game, for the male characters. Also the word impossible was not used, so it is something that could be done.
It is something that would show progression, and would likely increase the player base, albeit for a short amount of time. Something that could put Champions Online back in the scopes of major gaming media websites, magazines, etc. Which is something Champions Online could use.
And as much as this is a discussion, it is also a poll. So please vote, and comment. Thank you.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
As it stands people who create LGBTQ+ heroes are forced to use the female model, and alter them. Even with alterations, they appear odd and inaccurate to the body of a hero they are trying to emulate within the game. They are also already spending money to give these character models the look desired, with poor results. I.E.: Unhealthy looking bodies, clipped clothes, etc.
It would be a boon for the players.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I would love to see a list of things more important, than inclusion for the ENTIRE player base.
Literally the bugs from '09 and a multitude of content additions/power reworks? It can be squeezed in with additions, but uh...there are still bugs roaming since near the launch of the game and bugs that crop up now that could use more attention.
42 40s, LTSer.
This is literally not much to put up as a defense as to why inclusion should be put on hold. Especially since there is a population within this game, that is also "being put on hold".
All games have bugs, and will continue to have bugs. They crawl out from the coding at any point.. I make funny. As you just said as well, it could be squeezed in. But you voted against it, which votes against even bothering to lump it in with a quick fix. So that suggestion is kinda null at that point, no?
People aren't "on hold" or anything, they are playing and if they get this rework is good for them. But they are playing like we have played all this time without any stance rework (or any other).
In that logic can say I'm on hold until they rework all the powersets and why should the rework of the powersets put on hold for this stance rework?
No a bad idea get more stances but they need to finish what they started years ago with the new devs... rework of powersets is in the list followed by bugs/exploits.
Then why you open a poll and put two options?
Not necessarily. I'm not against inclusion really on principal, but in regards to CO right now? I still stick with no due what I said earlier. Just because all games have bugs doesnt mean you just leave the bugs and focus a lot of resources on one cosmetic. I should have clarified however, IF it can be worked in with other content updates and some bug fixes, go for it. If it takes up more resources and takes away from potential new content, or a decently important bug fix, skip it until those get addressed first.
In short: Content(new, not reskin)->Moderately prevelant bugs->This
42 40s, LTSer.
They make new content every freakin month LOL. You vote NO, but you say YES only if it can be worked into the game.
Why didn't you just say yes, but provide your feedback in the thread?
Agreed, but I am also focusing on the movements of the characters as well. The vixen stance provides certain ones that would allow for a better customization of the character.
Really...of course people want more
Depends on what you mean with "content". I would prefer having something to do in CO to a stance. It's been years some I've last had something significant to go after that isn't 90% cash shop.
The message of the OP is not trying to present this as the most urgent thing and that it needs to be done right away. It's saying "This is something I would like to see, how do others feel?". As such, your response doesn't really mean anything since even if this wasn't implemented with the utmost urgency, it could still be implemented at some point.
Don't bother pursuing this line of debate, it's pointless. We should focus on the benefits/drawbacks of the suggestion, not the timing of its implementation. Talk about "what's more important" is only going to derail the conversation into pointless circular discussions.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well if you read my post you'd know why I said no. Going off your OP/subsequent post it seemed as if you wanted this to be a priority of sorts. That's originally why I chose no, and judging by your reactions that seems to be the case, and also why I will stick with no. To explain to you what content means to me: A new powerset, mish chain, zone if we're lucky(hey, QWZ was a thing.). We have NOT got that in 2 years so, yeah. On it's face it's a fine suggestion, just not one I think should be done immediately.
42 40s, LTSer.
Thank you for the guidance in this. I have always seemed to enter endless debates when it comes to certain topics in forums. Especially ones that are met with adversity.
The major benefit to this, would be that players would have an additional option to add more personality to their online character. As Freakyfenton pointed out, this would give more than feminine inclined individuals a newer option. It would give all artistic personalities the ability to craft more to what they bring to the game.
I don't really see a drawback to this, and will end it there. Because there is no drawback to adding something cosmetic into the game.
A poll with only two options yields more results. It shows absolute interest/disinterest, rather than eventually sounding convoluted with too many ideas.
Like spinnytop said, this isn't anything that is being demanded as an immediate change. But with how society is evolving, it benefits any game to flow with such change. I.E.: Final Fantasy XIV, SWTOR, Mortal Kombat X, Life is strange, Last of us, Assassins Creed: Syndicate, Fallout 4, Tacoma, Fire Emblem Fates, Overwatch, Dragon Age series thus far, Mass Effect series (Though a part of me mentally excludes Andromeda as its own separate entity), Elder Scrolls Online, Kotaku, etc.
The list is literally endless, and all games have their issues that still need to be fixed.
But put this in perspective: If there are bugs that have yet to be fixed since '09, then you have already been put on hold due to circumstance. Which happens with games, and a gamers impatience for major fixes can't solve the problems faster.
But as a gaming community we can work together to make what we love, an even more enjoyable place for everyone.
With Champions Online being the longest thriving super hero MMO to date, it would set an example for all future hero MMO competitors. For them to make a progressive move forward for their consumers, would seal them in as the first to accept their feminine/more artistically inclined player base.
That's something worth claiming, even if it is for monetization.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
(b) No.
(c) I don't care.
I will go with (c). All of my nine toons were female, even the robots, but only one used vixen as part of her concept - the rest used heroic. Of the 8 more (all female) I planned to make, only one (more) would have used vixen.
Answering the premise in reverse order, . . .
". . . and become more gender inclusive?"
I fail to see where allowing all genders all stances and other, sometimes literally, cosmetic issues makes the game more inclusive or sensitive, but I am not opposed to any of it - I would just make more female toons and ignore the rest. So, in the intrest of others, a (a) Yes vote might help them at some point.
But, not if the goal is to pat itself on the back. "Look! We're progressive! Buy the Gold Pack or Lifetime and play with us!" (b) No.
"Should CO evolve with the times?"
(c) Not really, unless the pen-and-paper, as currently in print, is changing - then the game should follow. If the p-n-p is unchanged, the game should remain as it is. As I understand things, any comics in print follow the RPG, the RPG follows the p-n-p, and I have no idea if the p-n-p is following the times or not.
The thing is, it doesn't.
As an homosexual I find this is a disgusting and cheap tendency as of late to use "inclusiveness" as a excuse to justify getting what you want.
I would have supported this topic had the OP left it at "Add more unisex stances to CO", but using a serious topic such as this as a tool to fulfill such a selfishly petty wish (OP wanting to use the Vixen stance) I find it beyond tasteless.
Even doubly so when other players voiced their very valid opinion that there are more pressing matters to address intrinsically related to the game (bugs, powerset revamps, sub changes) only to be retorted with a "well I guess you don't care about inclusiveness, you must be a bigot!"
To me, the wording of the premise is "off;" it can be taken as you say or just that it was worded the way it was and, never having started a poll, I do not know if it allows for a third option, so I added mine.
I only made and planned to make female toons because they intest me - why is at least another topic if not more. I also have only teamed for combat to get two concept toons the event titles, costume parts, and devices that matched their concept, so I ignored all of the endgame content, alerts, cosmics, etc.
Ignoring half (?) of the character creator just by gender and most of the default and unlock parts to make concept toons was what happened when I made what I wanted, so, (c) I don't care if this change is made as I would just ignore it.
I was using what you said as an introduction to what I was going to say and to elaborate more on the concept you introduced to the current discussion.
We are in agreement about the OP as a concept (though possibly for different reasons) and I am ignorant of poll-creating options.
Anything available to the public should welcome all aspects of the public, provided troublemakers are dealt with; trolls, flame wars, etc. People who want inclusiveness are not trouble, they are right; how they present and pursue it can be trouble, but I think the OP means well generally and may have been limited by the poll options, thereby [subconsciously (never sure about spelling) ] worded the premise as it was.
Philosophy and diplomacy may "need all the words they can get," but math does not; if any part of the premise is wrong, it is all wrong.
Unless contradicted by NEw Math.
Because they hide behind reasons that can't be all bed addressed immediately, and would likely take years to fix. But if you read through the entire thread, which you probably didn't, you'd see this is something not demanded to be implemented right away.
Not to mention, with each fix, may spawn more problems.
Kinda harsh to deny your feminine fellow players visibility.
The purpose behind only two options, is to make the voting more absolute in gauging interest/disinterest in this. If the devs were to look at something convoluted with too many ideas, they wouldn't have anything to work with. It would just be a mess of ideas.
I am not trying to stir up trouble on the forums, my intentions are well meaning.
But this isn't about that. If it were, I would support it. This is about you wanting something in particular (the Vixen stance) and using a sensitive topic to pressure and blackmail the devs into doing what you want.
You create a poll with 2 options to vote, yet to anyone who clicked no and commented as to why you reply with a variant of "wow, it's a shame you are a bigot and don't care about inclusion". This made it pretty clear to me that this was not a topic with the intention to debate.
But even so, let's open debate for a bit. How exactly are you feeling marginalised by the game? Because of not being able to use one cosmetic feature? There are a lot of cosmetic features female toons are not able to use while male can and viceversa. Just a simple test is to go to the tailor and use the setskeleton command (I forget which one it is) to change your male costume into female and you will probably find out your costume has lost a lot of costume parts that are not available to female toons.
If this were PWI were male toons can only marry female toons, then yeah, I can totally see how that is not inclusive.
If you had talked about other cases were this game might not feel inclusive, for example the limited and unrealistic female body proportions, then I would have probably believed that inclusion was on your mind when creating this topic.
But to me it's pretty transparent that you just want to get one thing and that's it. And all the power to you, often times I've wanted something from this game and created a topic requesting the devs but I never found the need to pressure them with social commentary.
Thank you for this, and I hope you do not take my "I don't care" as a "screw you" - it is not; it is, however, my position, as I only made female toons and, of the 15 made or planned, only 2 would use Vixen as part of their concept. I ignored most of the game anyway, so would ignore unisex stances unless they were new and not just adjusted. Any expansion of your OP immediately gets into politics, economics, and religion, and we should all know what the thread and Forum would look like then. I am not against anyone's inclusion in the game or the idea of making existing (and new) stances unisex, I would just ignore this character creation option.
By all means, speak up against injustice and prejudice where it actually exists, but this is is not it. Look around you at the world and apply your political energy to where it will count
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Now I feel dumb for writing all that text when you just summarised it perfectly in this sentence. Ty
Just a bit of an exaggeration. If what the OP said feels like "blackmail" or "pressure" to you then maybe you've been watching one too many Jordan Peterson videos.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
YW, now give me a fkn police hat.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
*waves foambat menacingly*
BRITANNIA. GO WORK.
back on topic: pretty much what lezard elaborated on
more options = GREAT
the presentation and and the way responses were made to the ppl who disagree for whatever, not so cool
but whatever, we could always use more options, for every thing
sadly last time we kinda united for "moar options" we got... character bound emotes in lockboxes so my enthusiasm for this is very, very low even tho i really want
i already mess w/ my grumpo's acct characters across all games and set him up in pretty dresses-type outfits; this gives me more AMMO!
yes, am a terrible person >.>
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Well if you want to label my intentions as such, you're asking for a debate that doesn't belong in this thread.
As for the player I was responding to, he attempted to make it such. I am attempting to make this game enjoyable.
And prejudice does come in many forms, it doesn't need to be blatant to be obvious.
Back on track please.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I didn't put a label on anything. You absolutely politicised this unnecessarily by claiming it's "denying visibility to feminine fellow players". By all means promote inclusivity, but there's no oppression in the tailor
It needs to exist though. In the context of the CO tailor, it doesn't. Lacking tailor options =/= prejudice.
I still support more stances though.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
2. This post belongs in the suggestion forum.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
So I would humbly say, that even if politics were being a portion to the driving force for this post, I have paid for my right to speak on it.
But as I said before it's for character customization primarily.
Wait! Have you paid enough in-game to be allowed that laugh??
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods