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Forums > Home› Suggestions Box

Please fix Justice Vs Distinguished - Tanking.

diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
in Suggestions Box

Currently there's a "special feature" with Wardicator-spec that loops the offense/defense bonus
from Justice set and in combination with the high +offense, makes Justice+wardicator the
superior tankingset by far.

Since tanking isn't just about soaking & mitigating armor, but also doing damage to build threat,
this leaves the distinguished gear in the dust compared to Justice, hence distinguished gear is
obsolete for any player who wants to aim for the best gear when tanking.

Alot of players will defend this by saying "distinguished is for players who don't want to grind Rampage",
but this doesn't excuse the fact that if they WANT to be the better tank, they have to grind Rampages
and trust in the RNG to give them the drops needed.

All while healers are perfectly fine with distinguished gear, simply because Justice doesn't offer +healing.

It all comes down to that a hybrid/dps spec with dps-gear, simply shouldn't be better for tanking
than a pure tankbuild.. but currently is far superior. This is also where the developers has painted themselves
into a corner by allowing this to happen for so long, because now the majority of tanker is using
Wardicator+justice, and any changes to this will render alot of tanks... worse in tanking.

How you solve this is simply by making the Defensive Distinguished a far better option for tanking
by improving its defensive stats and tuning tanking-specs.

Again.. a dps-hybrid spec using dps-gear shouldn't be better at tanking than a tankspec with tankgear.

Comments

  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,785 Arc User
    diggot said:



    Again.. a dps-hybrid spec using dps-gear shouldn't be better at tanking than a tankspec with tankgear.

    There are actually folks at Cosmics being main tank, while using Hybrid and DPS?
    And they are holding threat and surviving better than full tank toons?

    My main tank has Justice, uses Wardicator, but is tank specced, tank role.
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  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    Um
    Justice is just more offense
    Distinguished is more defense

    Justice vs Distinguished: Defense Battle
    The second one wins, hands down.​​
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  • diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User

    The problem is that Wardicator's bonus loops in ways the most players don't know,
    and repeatedly increases the bonus of Justice. This is what makes Justice so powerful
    for tanking, compared to defensive distinguished.

    I spoke to several players yesterday about this, and for some odd reason, this "feature"
    is intended by the devs... why i don't know - but i think it's stupid to give a hybrid spec
    an hidden "loop" that makes a dps-set more effective in tanking, than a tankingset.
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    +147 offense vs +42 defense (Justice vs Distinguished), the Distinguished set is better imo. I personally have tanks in Distinguished over Justice because I don't like to grind all the Justice across toons but like, it's better to me. It's not a feature anyways, it's legit for Freeforms or whatever builds have Warden/Vindicator. It doesn't make it a 'hybrid spec' or a 'hidden loop' since it is obvious to the player who uses it. Intended yes, but everything is intended in the way they are at this point with some changes/alterations in mind.​​
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,557 Arc User
    I wouldn't mind see a bit more HP and defense in DG gear.
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  • blockwaveblockwave Posts: 329 Arc User
    Justice, is superior than everythint
    , a pure healer with the offense turned into bonus healing will be better with justice, a tank will have better aggro, a dps will have far superior dps with justice. Distinguished and virtuous is the cheap option. That’s what it is

  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    blockwave wrote: »
    Justice, is superior than everythint
    , a pure healer with the offense turned into bonus healing will be better with justice, a tank will have better aggro, a dps will have far superior dps with justice. Distinguished and virtuous is the cheap option. That’s what it is

    .-. I think it (the OP) was just meant for tanking, lol. It's not really cheap tbh since it takes more grinding of Cosmics/SCR/GCR/Eidolon/Qlip Warzone stuff for more Recognition. Justice is just cheap in terms of Recognition and for people who have the rampage drops, they can get it. People always want an alternative and so Distinguished is there for that.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    Distinguished gear's bonus also benefits from the wardicator/guardicator loop. What makes Justice Gear better has less to do with the set bonus and more to do with the Offensive Primary.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    diggot said:


    Currently there's a "special feature" with Wardicator-spec that loops the offense/defense bonus
    from Justice set and in combination with the high +offense, makes Justice+wardicator the
    superior tankingset by far.

    If you take Justice gear, you get +145 Offense in the gear layer; assuming wardicator with Modified Gear 2, the final effect is +212 Offense and +43 Defense. If you take Distinguished gear, you get +42 Defense in the gear layer; assuming wardicator with Fortified Gear 3, the final effect is +68 Offense and +68 Defense.
    diggot said:

    All while healers are perfectly fine with distinguished gear, simply because Justice doesn't offer +healing.

    Yeah it does. Distinguished is actually kinda bad for healers, both Justice and Virtuous are superior choices.
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  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,557 Arc User
    Interesting. Should DG maybe give +100 Def then, and/or maybe some other tanking benefits, like a bonus to generating aggro (kind of like what confront mods give)?
    pantagruel01 said:


    If you take Justice gear, you get +145 Offense in the gear layer; assuming wardicator with Modified Gear 2, the final effect is +212 Offense and +43 Defense. If you take Distinguished gear, you get +42 Defense in the gear layer; assuming wardicator with Fortified Gear 3, the final effect is +68 Offense and +68 Defense.

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 said:

    Interesting. Should DG maybe give +100 Def then, and/or maybe some other tanking benefits, like a bonus to generating aggro (kind of like what confront mods give)?

    Defense is generally more valuable than Offense, usually rated at about 3:1 (compare Impact cores in Offense and Defense slots), so +212 Offense/+43 defense should be the same value as +85/+85, implying a base Defense bonus of +52 (currently it's +42). This assumes the gear is otherwise equal and that +15 superstats/+10 other stats is equal to +25 superstats. It also ignores utility for non-Wardicator setups.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    Justice is mostly better because of the +crit gear.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,557 Arc User
    Something I've wondered about is if there should be some sort of bonus if you have a set of primary gear, but not necessarily all of the same suite. E.g. You might have one piece of DG, one of JG, one of VG (or 2 of one set and 1 of another set). Would it be possible or wise to allow this kind of mix and match at all? Maybe the set bonus would have to be smaller than what one gets for staying entirely in the same set to compensate for this amount of freedom?
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  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    If you take Justice gear, you get +145 Offense in the gear layer.

    It's +147 offense, not +145 offense. Unless this is reduced for full Justice on the character sheet?​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    shadowolf505 said:


    It's +147 offense, not +145 offense. Unless this is reduced for full Justice on the character sheet?​​

    No, that's just me misremembering.
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  • ordinaryplayer#2642 ordinaryplayer
    ordinaryplayer#2642
         Posts: 51 Arc User
    diggot said:


    Currently there's a "special feature" with Wardicator-spec that loops the offense/defense bonus
    from Justice set and in combination with the high +offense, makes Justice+wardicator the
    superior tankingset by far.

    ....

    Again.. a dps-hybrid spec using dps-gear shouldn't be better at tanking than a tankspec with tankgear.

    Justice vs Distinguished itself? Distinguished does have (natural) 111 offense vs justice 147 bonus offense. (Unless you're taking the healing gloves, then apples-to-apples). With the defense (with bonus) fliping, things come out very close

    Protector vs. Wardicator/Gardicator. Yes more of a problem with DPS walking around with more defense then a tank, plus you get crit severity, and crit upon that [Combo is good even without the loop back]. Flip to Con primaty (AT tank) from token str-CON-Jug, you're even weaker.

    I'm guessing this on the 'fix' list whenever we get around to spec tree update. So ?hold breath?

    Side thought: Add a trivial knock to dino bites and ape smash (too bad repel is a repel), suddenly Protectors 'on knock' heal starts looking nice.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    ordinaryplayer#2642 said:

    Side thought: Add a trivial knock to dino bites and ape smash (too bad repel is a repel), suddenly Protectors 'on knock' heal starts looking nice.

    No it doesn't. Getting knocked in either fight is has a good chance of being instant death, and even if you survive, who cares if you regenerate 6% of your health when you just took 60%.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    Could make Dino powerfully snare everyone with its aoes so that baby tank needs to have Protector's Unrelenting spec to actually move baby at a livable pace. Right now that's the kind of stuff you need to do to make tanks break away from wardicator.
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  • aesicaaesica Posts: 2,538 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Could make Dino powerfully snare everyone with its aoes so that baby tank needs to have Protector's Unrelenting spec to actually move baby at a livable pace. Right now that's the kind of stuff you need to do to make tanks break away from wardicator.
    That's a really lousy way to try and bandaid-fix something like that. It'd be far better in the long run to just go in an rebalance the specialization trees so that the ones intended for tanks are the most appealing for tanks.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited April 2018
    aesica said:


    That's a really lousy

    Exactly what I was illustrating. All current solutions are lousy and the only thing we can really do is wait for the spec overhaul.
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  • baelogventurebaelogventure Posts: 520 Arc User
    diggot said:


    Alot of players will defend this by saying "distinguished is for players who don't want to grind Rampage",
    but this doesn't excuse the fact that if they WANT to be the better tank, they have to grind Rampages
    and trust in the RNG to give them the drops needed.

    To want to have a better character, you have to do harder content. I don't see the problem.
  • diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
    baelogventure said:


    To want to have a better character, you have to do harder content. I don't see the problem.

    Rampages aren't hard, their droprate just utterly sucks.

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    diggot said:

    baelogventure said:

    To want to have a better character, you have to do harder content. I don't see the problem.

    Rampages aren't hard, their droprate just utterly sucks.
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  • baelogventurebaelogventure Posts: 520 Arc User
    diggot said:

    baelogventure said:


    To want to have a better character, you have to do harder content. I don't see the problem.

    Rampages aren't hard, their droprate just utterly sucks.

    Then suck it up, buttercup, and get to pugging.
  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 979 Arc User
    If I can make a suggestion to the OP, when you are tanking, take Wardicator spec and get Justice Gear. There, problem solved.
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  • avianosavianos Posts: 6,200 Arc User
    I have 5 Tanks with Distinguished Gear and they all tank perfectly fine in endgame, 3 of them are Protector+Warden​​
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