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Powers, standardization, and similar things
aesica
Posts: 2,537 Arc User
Sorry for the length. This is just a compiled list of things that occur to me from time to time as "nice things I wish this game had"
"Lariat/Knock To" Powers
Right now, these seem to be all over the charts. Some are instant, most are not. Some are 50 feet, some are 25 feet. I think it'd be great if we could standardize these so that they all behaved like Telekinetic Lariat: 50 feet, no charge time. I say this because right now, if someone wants a gap closer, most are going to take something instant over something with a charge time. Lunges are already significantly better since they're instant, have a 60 foot range, and a nonexistant cooldown. If the only reasons I have for wanting a lariat-type power are for the knock to, nailed to the ground, and stim pack effect, why would I take anything other Telekinetic Lariat? The set-specific effects (apply plasma burn, fear, whatever) are generally useless because I'm probably getting those through other abilities, too. It'd be nice to have my choice be theme-based rather than performance-based.
TL;DR: All Lariat/Knock-To powers should lose their charge time and be 50 feet.
Also new advantage for all lariats: [2] If the target is immune to knocks, the player pulls themselves toward the target instead.
Accelerated Metabolism
Currently, I feel pretty safe in saying that most people regard this advantage as crap. Instead of being a gimmicky chance to restore energy, why not have it be applied as a flat reduction to the base cost of the power instead? (As in, not diminished by the cost reduction stat)
Tier 0 Powers
This might sound a bit radical, but bear with me: Why not remove the energy cost of these entirely? It would have minimal impact on endgame, which is all about spamming a T3 power, but would make early gameplay for newer players feel a bit less like constant energy starvation.
Energy Builders
Several things here:
Energy Unlocks
Currently, some are "energy every 3 seconds for 6 seconds" while others are "restores energy, but cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds." I realize the former is the newer version, and will probably be applied to sets using the latter model when their review comes around, but in this case, why wait? Sets like Archery, Wind, and to a lesser degree, Darkness could use this sooner rather than later, especially if it's going to be an inevitable change anyway.
Forms
Yeah, not a fan due to the lack of meaningful gameplay involved, but since they're the current direction the game is going, here's some thoughts:
Powerhouse Trainers
It'd be great to have a button to remove all powers and advantages with one click. To elaborate, the behavior would be as follows:
Powers (a small wishlist)
Travel Powers (a small wishlist)
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So yeah, there's my wishlist. I don't expect that really any of these would happen. I just wanted to put them out there.
"Lariat/Knock To" Powers
Right now, these seem to be all over the charts. Some are instant, most are not. Some are 50 feet, some are 25 feet. I think it'd be great if we could standardize these so that they all behaved like Telekinetic Lariat: 50 feet, no charge time. I say this because right now, if someone wants a gap closer, most are going to take something instant over something with a charge time. Lunges are already significantly better since they're instant, have a 60 foot range, and a nonexistant cooldown. If the only reasons I have for wanting a lariat-type power are for the knock to, nailed to the ground, and stim pack effect, why would I take anything other Telekinetic Lariat? The set-specific effects (apply plasma burn, fear, whatever) are generally useless because I'm probably getting those through other abilities, too. It'd be nice to have my choice be theme-based rather than performance-based.
TL;DR: All Lariat/Knock-To powers should lose their charge time and be 50 feet.
Also new advantage for all lariats: [2] If the target is immune to knocks, the player pulls themselves toward the target instead.
Accelerated Metabolism
Currently, I feel pretty safe in saying that most people regard this advantage as crap. Instead of being a gimmicky chance to restore energy, why not have it be applied as a flat reduction to the base cost of the power instead? (As in, not diminished by the cost reduction stat)
Tier 0 Powers
This might sound a bit radical, but bear with me: Why not remove the energy cost of these entirely? It would have minimal impact on endgame, which is all about spamming a T3 power, but would make early gameplay for newer players feel a bit less like constant energy starvation.
Energy Builders
Several things here:
- Ranks on these are irrelevant new-player traps. The ranks should probably be removed entirely and the visual effects of Rank 3 made the new defaults. It would make the game look a lot prettier. Or at the very least, reduce the advantage point cost of EB ranks to 1 to make them slightly less absurd to invest in.
- For some weird reason, not all EBs are created equal. Some are combos, some are maintains, some tick faster, some restore more energy with the first hit, some restore more energy with subsequent hits, and worst yet, some simply restore more energy than others. Any chance of standardizing these a bit? Specifically, I'd say use the maintained versions (Psi Lash, Wrist Bolter, Sonic Blaster) as models because overall, the maintained energy builders (which restore more energy with subsequent hits) tend to be more aesthetically pleasing and more effective for newer, more energy-starved characters.
- Melee energy builders are very stylish, but not practical due to their limitations. I'd suggest replacing the useless Taunt with a ranged fallback (such as throwing knives, rocks, lasers, or whatever is theme-appropriate). And no reduced energy generation for range. They really should restore the same amount of energy no matter which one you use.
- As a follow-up to both the Accelerated Metabolism suggestion above as well as the second item in this list, the proposed change to AM would make it useless on energy builders, replace it with a 1-point advantage to greatly increase the energy restored by the initial hit. So instead of each hit restoring say, 10-20-20-20 energy, it'd be 40-20-20-20 instead.
- These should probably do a bit more damage. Obviously energy builders should be weaker than tier 0 attacks and everything else, but one should at least be able to make short work of a scrubby henchman using one.
Energy Unlocks
Currently, some are "energy every 3 seconds for 6 seconds" while others are "restores energy, but cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds." I realize the former is the newer version, and will probably be applied to sets using the latter model when their review comes around, but in this case, why wait? Sets like Archery, Wind, and to a lesser degree, Darkness could use this sooner rather than later, especially if it's going to be an inevitable change anyway.
Forms
Yeah, not a fan due to the lack of meaningful gameplay involved, but since they're the current direction the game is going, here's some thoughts:
- The ranks on these should be reassessed. Currently, they're not worth taking except in edge cases/junk forms most people shun, like IDF and Aspect of the Machine. How about lowering the advantage point cost to 1 or removing the ranks entirely so they don't trap new players?
- Having utility-based advantages, like Endorphin Rush, on more forms than just Enrage would be pretty awesome. Or other interesting utility-based effects.
- The whole "increases energy cost by 10%, but restores energy when stacked" is really weird/stupid/pointless. Why is this a thing? Why not just remove the 10% cost increase and (if even necessary) adjust the energy granted by the form per stack to compensate? Right now, it's kinda like watching a movie on your computer and you decide to turn down the volume on the player but turn up the master volume on your PC to compensate. Only one really needs to be adjusted.
Powerhouse Trainers
It'd be great to have a button to remove all powers and advantages with one click. To elaborate, the behavior would be as follows:
- If the player has free-to-remove powers (those they're trying out in the powerhouse) clicking this removes all of those in one go after showing an "are you sure" dialog. Their permanent powers (those they already had which would cost to remove) are left intact.
- Otherwise, clicking this shows the player the total cost, and if they click okay and can afford it, all powers are removed.
- This wouldn't affect talents, specializations, etc.
- In the laser room, the beams should at the very least: 1) be percent-of-health, 2) hold the player in combat for ~10 seconds so they don't instantly regen back up, and 3) not be any specific damage type (I forget, aren't they fire-based currently?)
- In the instance, it'd be nice to select from more than just the 3 enemy types native to that particular region.
- If possible, it'd be nice to flag the player as "trying out" their selected powers for ~2-4 hours after they leave the powerhouse rather than only while they're inside the powerhouse. That way, they can return and try again if a build they tested seemed fine in the powerhouse, but sucked out in the real world. To elaborate, they'd have an unlimited duration for power refunds while in the powerhouse like they do now. Leaving the powerhouse would start the timer. If they fail to return to the powerhouse within the time limit, the changes become permanent. If they return before the time limit, they get prompted on entry if they want to remove these trial powers with "yes, keep these powers" or "no, reset please." Keeping them makes them permanent, resetting removes them all. (This is to make it too much of a pain in the butt to exploit by returning to and logging off in the powerhouse after a few hours of play)
Powers (a small wishlist)
- Blink: A teleport-to-target lunge with the same animations as Upload.
- Blazing Rush: A fire-themed lunge. Advantage: All enemies in a line between you and your target are knocked up and affected by Clinging Flames.
- Some good, maintained PBAoE range powers besides the chain twirls. Most of the current ones seem undertuned or derpy (invocation of storm calling, hurricane with its repel/knockback, etc) compared to the more solid, target-based equivalents like Lightning Storm.
- Offensive passive, "Archmage" - Increases your non-physical damage by an amount--somewhere between a normal passive and night warrior after the penetration bonus is applied. Increases your resistance to non-physical damage by a small amount and restores a bit of energy whenever you take non-physical damage. Increases your energy equilibrium and recovery rate by an amount (half as potent as similar bonuses on Electric Form)
- Offensive passive, "Master of the Elements" - Increases your Fire, Cold, and Crushing (since wind and earth use the same type) damage as well as your resistance to those damage types. Absorb a small flat amount of damage, similar to Unstoppable. Applying clinging flames, chilled, repelling, or knocking a foe restores a small amount of energy to you.
- Offensive passive, "Celestial Avenger" - Increases your Fire, Electrical, and Dimensional damage as well as your resistance to those damage types. Dealing damage to illuminated foes heals you (in addition to the standard mend effect) in a fashion similar to the heal effect on either shadow form or electric form.
- Dimensional melee "energy sword" powers. Ideally without the count-to-5-and-consume-the stacks nonsense found on all the other sword-based powers.
- More "clone/alternative" powers for niche abilities that aren't necessarily part of a given set's rotation, but are useful overall. Powers like Conviction, Dark Transfusion, the various Magic circles, Particle Wave, etc. Basically, the goal here is to allow people to access these effects in less theme-breaking ways. The lariats, lunges, melee stun/trauma abilities, self resurrect, ally resurrect, lifedrain, etc powers are good examples
Travel Powers (a small wishlist)
- Void Teleport: Same shadowy animation as Void Shift, except as a teleport ability.
- Athletics/Acrobatics with a ghosting effect similar to this or this. Part of me suspects this game's engine can't do something like this easily, but I wanted to throw it out there anyway.
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So yeah, there's my wishlist. I don't expect that really any of these would happen. I just wanted to put them out there.
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
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Comments
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Ha, thanks!
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My characters
Not sure I agree with the idea of standardisation, actually. I've been playing the Laser Sword set and that has two different knock-to powers which do two different things (Particle Wave and Cybernetic Tether) which is of great utility. As long as the range of these powers is appropriate (and I think some of the MA knock-to powers like Chained Kunai are far too short range) it's OK.
Energy Builders
+1 for removing ranks and adding more debuffs.
Energy Builders
The whole "increases energy cost by 10%, but restores energy when stacked" is really weird/stupid/pointless. Why is this a thing? Why not just remove the 10% cost increase and (if even necessary) adjust the energy granted by the form per stack to compensate?
The idea is to provide an energy plateau effect when you've got all your Form stacks which has to be addressed. Presumably the idea was to prevent people going dakkadakkadakka for hours without ever having to think about energy, but that's been made largely irrelevant by EU powers. The energy penalty should probably be increased, tbh,
Powerhouse Trainers
Could we re-use some of those location PvP training zones to allow people to test builds against wandering supervillains/boss type characters? It's a pet hate of mine that the game doesn't allow you to test your builds against anything stronger than mobs of master villains....
Powers (a small wishlist)
+1 for more generalist forms.
+1 also for more generic self-heals. I'd really like a copy of Reconstruction Circuits which worked with non-PA powers and which could also be used to rejuvenate shields such as PFF.
Brand new powers with a new animation, fx and power effect take a lot of time (days+) and multiple people to create.
Powers like most of the 'chain' ones, the brute strike copies and certain lunges, take a fraction of the time to create because they use existing assets and power effects. We're talking like under 30 minutes for the entire creation process.
The reason these 'copy' powers keep coming up (and will continue to do so) is because they're so fast to make and add options to a set. These copy powers also have no impact on any 'new' power creation, we just fit them in if we feel they'll add something to a set.
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Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
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Feel free to visit my websites!^^:
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The only problem with them is that sometimes the only need for multiple copy powers is because we've now got a lot of damage types, buffs and debuffs going on, and we need a tuned version for each set. More generalist passive would get around that; they wouldn't be better than playing within the optimal version of a set, but they would mean that we wouldn't need more than one version of something cool but niche (Psychic Vortex, for example, which really only plays nicely with Ego damage, despite being a magical-type power).
In fairness, Particle Wave is in a class of its own since it's an instant aoe knock-to rather than single target. If what you want is a knock-to, it's literally superior to cybernetic tether in every way, but by standardizing cybernetic tether to at least be instant and 50 feet, taking it over particle wave for its other advantages would feel a bit more justifiable.
Particle wave is also one of those powers that really could use a few clones in other sets, of course maybe it's better off manifesting as an aoe option for the otherwise single-target lariats?
Yes, most people are well aware of how super cake it is to copy/paste things. Powers that get copied a little bit do not get the flak that blunt strike and lariat do. It's not about the copy/paste, it's about shoving the same handful of crap into every set.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
HOWEVER, Chains are a really special case, the chain clones have been really out of hand with those revamps to the point of being nothing more than obvious cookie cutter powers with little no visual change or utility
I find it uncreative, aesthetical displeasing, visually boring, outright forced and out of place in the powerframes
With the exception of the bestial chains (which are the same fx as the might ones), all 'chain' powers introduced have a different visual.
They also have innate abilities and advantages that assist their particular powerset, the only possible exception to that being Bladed Cyclone that currently lacks any specific abilities that are catered to any of the Martial Arts frameworks.
Brute Strike/Chains/Lunges/Rezzes are common copy powers as they have a solid template and add some flavor and utility to a set without really interfering in its overall design.
I know there are other powers players would like copied across sets (like Conviction), but we wither don't think they would be good for balance, don't have a template that we're happy with or lack the visuals needed to make them distinct and would need new ones, where in that case we would likely just invest in a new power.
[2] Chi Storm: Your Bladed Cyclone gets a spiffy glow, deals additional damage as Dimensional, and has a 10% chance to apply Chi Flame to targets.
You know you want to!
I'm not sure how difficult it is to add shared cooldown categories to powers in this game, but without them, I can see firing off like 5 conviction-like effects being a bit weird. Bountiful Chi Resurgence clones could work though, since they could probably just overwrite each other's HoT although they'd need to state this in the tooltips. Sniper Rifle clones would work out well since there's no cooldowns involved. Dark Transfusion wouldn't really need a clone if the obnoxiously-heavy dark edgelord glows were removed or somehow made optional.
Also vote no for more standardization. We need more variety, not less - and that seems to be the general direction the power changes are headed, so let's stick with that.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
__________________________________________________________________
Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
- - - - - -
Feel free to visit my websites!^^:
DeviantART|FurAffinity|
Twitter
I should probably elaborate a bit about what I mean by "standardization."
What I suspect you think I mean: It's not a push to make every set play exactly the same. Not every set needs a lightning storm aoe or count-to-5-and-blow-the-stacks nonsense.
What I actually mean: Lift up undertuned "clone" powers so that they match the better ones. Why should I choose a 25 foot lariat over a 50 foot lariat? Why should I choose a lariat with a cast time over telekinetic lariat and its instant cast? The secondary effects are mostly pointless because if you actually need them, they're most likely being applied by other powers you probably have already, such as fear + devoid from shadow blast vs dark tether. Having samey standardized core derps powers would be boring, yes, and that's why I'm constantly railing against stack-consuming mechanics on melee sets. Utility is different, though. If you find yourself making a theme character, only to say, "I really want this power for its utility, but the version that fits my theme performs poorly compared to this other, theme-breaking one that does the same thing," then yeah, that power should probably be standardized a bit.
Energy builders are a fairly good example: Why should some be so much better than others when their intended function should be more balanced. Balance among utility powers is what I'm after.
A quick stomp or fist-in-the-ground slam that knocks the targets toward you would be perfect for might.
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Except for the boomerang EB, which already outshines all the others for some reason.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Wield earth is very cool for that, you deal earth fists attacks at melee and rocks projection at range; two animations for the same power.
That fist strike animation could be reused for other elemental EB attacks, fire, electrical, poisonous or ice fists at melee, and energy projection at range, which is basically the standard animation we already have with ranged ebs
For melee martial arts ebs, you coud use shuriken or boomerang throw at range while the melee animation would remain the same.
Blade or heavy weapon could use some kind of wave or beams at range, or anything else fitting the theme.
A lot of possibilities for more good looking and practical EBs.
I don't think it's a great power either, but then the game has these silly ideas about massive cooldowns on healing consumables; that makes self-healing powers a necessary part of every build rather than a feature of a hero's powers. You can't blame people for wanting themed versions of powers in every set if the game makes them take them in order to survive.
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My characters
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My characters
Im a nub comming after a long hiatus, and while I dont feel prepared to comment on the issues you raise, there is something that allways has bothered me about "standarization" and is the relation between Type of attack, and movement
The type od attack i mean is the Charged vs Maintained in melee and ranged attack powers. Ill explain:
There are rangd Maintain attacks that allow me to move while I do them, even if they have a strong Control effect, and Maintain powers that doesnt allow you to move while using them.
There are melee changed attacks that allow you to move while charging them, and others that doesnt.
I think setting a common standar within powers in this regard would be very cool.
Someting in the way of:
Ranged Maintains should allow you to move while doing them, Melee Maintains shouldnt.
Melee Changed powers should allow you to move while charging them, Ranged Charged powers shouldnt.
Im sorry if im posting this off-topic
Unfortunately, it seems they've chosen to balance melee vs ranged by giving melee higher dps and lower energy costs compared to ranged instead, so...yeah. It's a bit of a mess.
Edit: Also no, I don't consider it off-topic, because right now there doesn't seem to be proper standards for how melee and ranged powers behave. Some ranged sets being only 50 feet (FIRE SAYS HAI!) while others get proper 100 foot range is a bit weird, too.
It might be that healing is just so damn OP, the devs are trying things to balance it out... Expect that they are not also balancing out damage. One-shot damage as a way to counter crazy healing blows. Someone else did this experiment. Some tiny company. Blizzard? Probably never heard of them.
I actually like being able to move around with my ranged powers. Everyone being able to move around while using their powers would be more fun. And anyone that prefers not to move around can still do that. Everybody wins.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009