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Forums > Home› Champions Online Discussion

Nemesis Alerts

colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
in Champions Online Discussion
Ok, I've been gone for a couple of years, and now I'm back again... and as usual, I have a suggestion.

As has been said before (many times), the Nemesis system is horribly underutilized, even though it's one of the best things about the game.

I find I spend most of my time doing Alerts, and the ones I enjoy the most are the Nemesis Alerts. The problem is that they're SO infrequent, I can go WEEKS without ever seeing one.

So, while I think it would be nice to see some improvements to the Nemesis system (there have been many suggestions over the years), I think I'll begin by making this one, simple suggestion.

Adjust the Alerts so the Nemesis Alerts are more frequent. I mean a LOT more. To my mind, half of all Alerts could be Nemesis Alerts, and that would be great. It gets really, really dull beating up Viper X a hundred times a day. With Nemesis Alerts, there's going to be more variety, and that can only be a positive thing.

As a corollary to this, I would make some NEW Nemesis Alerts. At present, there's only the Dockside Dustup (by far the most commonly seen one), and the Bank Robbery (which usually appears for around 15 seconds before being replaced). Let's get some of the OTHER kinds of alerts using Nemesis characters, things like Trainspotting or the Grab Alert with Black Diamond, Blue Jay and the others. How cool would it be to have an alert like that with FIVE Nemeses in it? However, this is something for the future. For now, just give us more frequent Nemesis Alerts.

Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
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Comments

  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    hehe... an imitation of GRAB has been requested a lot.
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  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    Well, you wouldn't want to do EXACTLY the same thing just with different characters, but they could come up with SOMETHING. There are other missions that give us this to some extent (eg. Red Dawn).
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    I completely agree with the OP.

    The Nemesis system is wonderful - and sadly - hugely ignored. I too want to see more, WAY MORE, Nemesis Alerts show up. People have put a lot of time into creating some wonderful villains and I love seeing (and fighting) all the different bad guys people come up with.

    To really make Nemesis Alerts work more often, I see three things that need to happen:

    1) Remove the Questionite award. While this is a nice gesture from the Devs, I believe it is putting an artificial damper on the spawn rate of Nem Alerts. I think a lot of folks would gladly trade away a paltry amount of Q to have Nem Alerts pop more often.

    2) Increase the spawn rate of Nem Alerts after they are completed. I think I heard somewhere that all Alerts have a 'cooldown' once defeated. That is why the nasty Elder Worm ones stay up forever - because everyone hates them and they are rarely finished. Contrast this with Nem Alerts that EVERYONE piles onto and completes quickly, so it never stays on the list very long. Decreasing the cooldown for Nem Alerts after completion would do wonders to make more Nem Alerts available.

    3) Give player Nemesis' priority over 'filler' Nem villains. I can't tell you the number of times I've played a Nem Alert with 4 out of 5 people having Nems, just to have a generic Nem show up 9 times out 10. Please, if even just one player has a Nem, it should ALWAYS trump any generic Nem from EVER being generated.

    If the above simple things were done, there should be no shortage of awesome Nemesis Alerts on the list. :)
    Post edited by captainhunter1 on
    My consolidated list of game improvements: arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1207642/my-consolidated-list-of-game-improvements
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Posts: 1,571 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    Please, if even just one player has a Nem, it should ALWAYS trump any generic Nem from EVER being generated.

    i believe it already does - generic nemeses show because NO ONE has a nemesis on that character

    building a few more generic ones so you don't always see Lilith, however, would be nice​​
    #LegalizeAwoo
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    I usually see Hammer and Sickle... at least in Nemcon.
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    shadowfang240 said:



    i believe it already does - generic nemeses show because NO ONE has a nemesis on that character

    ​​

    Nope. Every one of my toons of level 25+ has a nemesis, and I usually see a generic one when I queue these alerts.


    I would really like to see Nems used more, myself.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    The nemesis system is dumb u3u

    I like the idea of a multi-boss fight. It would be neat if it was our nemesi I guess.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    roughbearmattach said:

    shadowfang240 said:

    i believe it already does - generic nemeses show because NO ONE has a nemesis on that character

    ​​

    Nope. Every one of my toons of level 25+ has a nemesis, and I usually see a generic one when I queue these alerts.

    I would really like to see Nems used more, myself.
    Yeah, I get the feeling most characters have 0 Nems... :/ So the random puggles prob don't have one.
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  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    markhawkman said:

    Yeah, I get the feeling most characters have 0 Nems... :/ So the random puggles prob don't have one.

    Negatory.

    As I said in my response above - in nearly every random pug Nem Alert I have ever played, RARELY does someone NOT have a Nem - it's one of the very reasons they are queued up for the Alert - to fight their Nemesis. Whenever a 'generic' Nem pops in the Alert, I ask people if they have Nems, 4 out of 5 say yes - yet here's 'Lilith' for the hundredth time. Ugh.

    Every single one of my characters has Nems, many of them multiple Nems. So if anything, MINE should pop up regardless of whether the rest of the group has none. Again.... GENERIC NEMS SHOULD ONLY GENERATE IF NOBODY IN THE GROUP HAS ONE.
    My consolidated list of game improvements: arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1207642/my-consolidated-list-of-game-improvements
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    captainhunter1 said:

    markhawkman said:

    Yeah, I get the feeling most characters have 0 Nems... :/ So the random puggles prob don't have one.

    Negatory.

    As I said in my response above - in nearly every random pug Nem Alert I have ever played, RARELY does someone NOT have a Nem - it's one of the very reasons they are queued up for the Alert - to fight their Nemesis. Whenever a 'generic' Nem pops in the Alert, I ask people if they have Nems, 4 out of 5 say yes - yet here's 'Lilith' for the hundredth time. Ugh.

    Every single one of my characters has Nems, many of them multiple Nems. So if anything, MINE should pop up regardless of whether the rest of the group has none. Again.... GENERIC NEMS SHOULD ONLY GENERATE IF NOBODY IN THE GROUP HAS ONE.
    This would be my second request. I'm trying to keep it simple for them. If they're going to do ONE thing, one SIMPLE thing, then make the nemesis alerts happen more frequently.

    I'd even tolerate the generic nemeses if the nemesis alerts would happen more than once or twice a month.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    gradii said:

    Calls the best feature of the game dumb and likes cosmics... I guess that works..​​

    I don't really like cosmics that much - the only one I really like is High Noon, and that's because it has something other than the cosmic. To me the best parts of the game are QWZ dailies and alerts. Nemesis content is basically just like all the other leveling missions in the game - the fact that I can design how one NPC involved looks isn't particularly thrilling to me. One or two of the missions are neat I guess.
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  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    Spent the last two hours in the game. Saw Viper X something like six times, Kevin Poe three times, Aoquephoth or however it's spelled, just once, but it lasted 20 minutes, on and on with the same little group of foes.

    If there was a nemesis alert more frequently, it would mean more variety in foes. We wouldn't be fighting the same enemies all the time.

    So, after 2 hours of sitting around basically doing nothing, I left the game to come here and reiterate my suggestion.

    Make Nemesis Alerts occur more frequently!
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    captainhunter1 said:

    GENERIC NEMS SHOULD ONLY GENERATE IF NOBODY IN THE GROUP HAS ONE.

    "should" Well.... I'm pretty sure it just picks someone at random :/
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  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    markhawkman said:

    captainhunter1 said:

    GENERIC NEMS SHOULD ONLY GENERATE IF NOBODY IN THE GROUP HAS ONE.

    "should" Well.... I'm pretty sure it just picks someone at random :/
    As it should... however, if the one it picks HAS no nemesis, it should "roll" again until it gets one that DOES.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! WEEKS waiting for a nemesis alert, one comes up and what do we get? High Voltage. I leave the map, and rejoin. What do I get? BUGGED MAP, with enemies missing outside the bank. I leave and requeue. What do we get? STITCHES.

    It's a god damn NEMESIS ALERT, can we get some actual NEMESES in these NEMESIS ALERTS? /Goldblum

    Seriously, it ticks me off to no end. Make it choose from an existing nemesis, and ONLY give us a generic one if NO ONE has an actual nemesis.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Posts: 409 Arc User
    colonelmarik said:

    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! WEEKS waiting for a nemesis alert, one comes up and what do we get? High Voltage. I leave the map, and rejoin. What do I get? BUGGED MAP, with enemies missing outside the bank. I leave and requeue. What do we get? STITCHES.

    It's a god damn NEMESIS ALERT, can we get some actual NEMESES in these NEMESIS ALERTS? /Goldblum

    Seriously, it ticks me off to no end. Make it choose from an existing nemesis, and ONLY give us a generic one if NO ONE has an actual nemesis.

    Amen, brother!
    My consolidated list of game improvements: arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1207642/my-consolidated-list-of-game-improvements
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    Nemesis alerts were more frequent until people started farming them. They also had a habit of sticking, as in sticking around for hours at a time.
    I remember doing them for 6hrs.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Posts: 1,571 Arc User
    gee, i can't imagine why people would farm something that has a chance to spawn a unique enemy every time...​​
    #LegalizeAwoo
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    shadowfang240 said:

    gee, i can't imagine why people would farm something that has a chance to spawn a unique enemy every time...​​

    Which is why I like them. I weary of seeing the same four or five foes over and over ad nauseam.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    I suspect the reason they're so rare is that there's basically just one nemesis alert in each alert category :/
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  • wingedkagoutiwingedkagouti Posts: 565 Arc User
    shadowfang240 said:

    gee, i can't imagine why people would farm something that has a chance to spawn a unique enemy every time...​​

    It probably had nothing at all to do with the guaranteed qbox drops.

    Also, from my experience the game selects the nemesis of the first player to finish loading into the alert. If that player doesn't have a nemesis then a generic one is used.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Posts: 1,571 Arc User
    except one of the above posters already confirmed they were in a team where everyone had a nemesis and it STILL spawned a generic​​
    #LegalizeAwoo
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    shadowfang240 said:

    except one of the above posters already confirmed they were in a team where everyone had a nemesis and it STILL spawned a generic​​

    I think you're talking about Captain Hunter's post, and his seemed to be speculation to me. He said that ALL of HIS characters had Nems, so that IF the system was setup to always go with an actual Nem It'd pick his Nem over a filler NPC. But I don't think he actually said that he KNEW he'd been in teams where all five players had one.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Posts: 1,571 Arc User
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    Whenever a 'generic' Nem pops in the Alert, I ask people if they have Nems, 4 out of 5 say yes - yet here's 'Lilith' for the hundredth time.

    that sounds like knowing to me​​
    #LegalizeAwoo
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    shadowfang240 said:

    gee, i can't imagine why people would farm something that has a chance to spawn a unique enemy every time...​​

    Because it has an automatic questionite drop. People farm all the bosses that have valuable drops and aren't in a Pyramid Power.
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  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    If farming for the questionite drop is an issue, take the questionite out. Just use the regular alert format, but with our Nemeses instead. I honestly don't care about the rewards, I just like seeing some different, interesting enemies.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    Pfft... 200 Q is barely noticeable. People who farm alerts will farm it all day unless it's particularly hard or unusually time consuming.

    Also, Half the players in the game probably don't even know what a Nemesis IS. I've done NemCon runs with people who THOUGHT they had one but got confused when I asked what their Nem's name was... so if all you do is ask puggles if they have a Nem, the answers might not mean as much as you think.

    Speaking of hard though... did a Nem bank robbery today where the rank 3 mooks hit harder than the Nem did. One of them used Grasping Tendrils and actually managed to drop FOUR players with one attack. That alert was bonkers. I lost count of how many times I got Koed, not to mention the others.
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  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    I've noticed that occasionally bad guys will do astronomical damage (I was hit for over 110k damage once). I suspect a bug of some sort, but have never been able to nail it down.

    Kind of beside the point, though.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    darkness nem and minions are pretty cool uwu
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    darkness nem and minions are pretty cool uwu

    Is this one of those things you like because it's challenging or because it looks cool?
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Posts: 1,571 Arc User
    NOTHING in an alert is challenging​​
    #LegalizeAwoo
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    markhawkman said:

    Is this one of those things you like because it's challenging or because it looks cool?

    Basically one day I heard people talking about how darkness nem is the most annoying to fight so I made all my nems darkness.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    markhawkman said:

    Is this one of those things you like because it's challenging or because it looks cool?

    Basically one day I heard people talking about how darkness nem is the most annoying to fight so I made all my nems darkness.
    And do you start singing Simon & Garfunkel when they show up?

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  • screwthisprocessscrewthisprocess Posts: 186 Arc User
    Ok, I was about to make a thread about somebody's fiend in the bank robbery, and how I can get mine in there. It is nemesis alerts. I agree, would be cool if it happens more often. Only happened twice in all my time doing alerts. Is it due to the players having no nemesis?
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Posts: 409 Arc User
    screwthisprocess said:

    Ok, I was about to make a thread about somebody's fiend in the bank robbery, and how I can get mine in there. It is nemesis alerts. I agree, would be cool if it happens more often. Only happened twice in all my time doing alerts. Is it due to the players having no nemesis?

    No one really knows.

    Rumor has it that it loads the Nemesis of the first person to click on the Alert when it pops up. However, personal opinion, that's BS. I have been the first to click on a Nem Alert many times (hovering over the EXACT spot the button pops up at, clicking away ahead of time) and continue to see generic Nems spawn with frustrating, agonizing frequency.

    The coding is broken or badly written to include these useless generic Nems more than it should. As I have stated many times - IF EVEN ONE PLAYER HAS A NEMESIS IN A NEM ALERT, IT SHOULD ALWAYS TRUMP GENERICS.
    My consolidated list of game improvements: arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1207642/my-consolidated-list-of-game-improvements
  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    IF EVEN ONE PLAYER HAS A NEMESIS IN A NEM ALERT, IT SHOULD ALWAYS TRUMP GENERICS.

    Right... "if" Remember, not all players have nems in the game or want to do the nem storyline stuff. So, it wouldn't always give you a player created nem.​​
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  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    shadowolf505 said:



    captainhunter1 wrote: »

    IF EVEN ONE PLAYER HAS A NEMESIS IN A NEM ALERT, IT SHOULD ALWAYS TRUMP GENERICS.


    Right... "if" Remember, not all players have nems in the game or want to do the nem storyline stuff. So, it wouldn't always give you a player created nem.​​
    But ALL my characters do have Nemesis' - - yet the generics just keep filling up the Nem Alerts I play. So frustrating seeing crap Villains when the are sooooooooooooooooo many good player made Nemesis out there.

    (In case you didn't read all the earlier posts, I have asked other folks in Alerts with me if they have Nemesis's too - and most say yes. The system is borked.)
    My consolidated list of game improvements: arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1207642/my-consolidated-list-of-game-improvements
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,543 Arc User
    Repeat after me: the Devs have said there will be no changes/additions to the Nemesis system, no matter how much players really want more from this unique aspect of the game. No use flogging a dead horse.
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  • shadowolf505shadowolf505 Posts: 697 Arc User
    captainhunter1 wrote: »

    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    IF EVEN ONE PLAYER HAS A NEMESIS IN A NEM ALERT, IT SHOULD ALWAYS TRUMP GENERICS.

    Right... "if" Remember, not all players have nems in the game or want to do the nem storyline stuff. So, it wouldn't always give you a player created nem.

    But ALL my characters do have Nemesis' - - yet the generics just keep filling up the Nem Alerts I play. So frustrating seeing crap Villains when the are sooooooooooooooooo many good player made Nemesis out there.

    (In case you didn't read all the earlier posts, I have asked other folks in Alerts with me if they have Nemesis's too - and most say yes. The system is borked.)

    That's not the point. Even if many players have nems, it doesn't mean it WILL give a player created nem. It's at a random chance.​​
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    It might be that whoever queued first gets it. Or some other extremely arbitrary way. NemCon is also weird like that.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    jonsills said:

    And do you start singing Simon & Garfunkel when they show up?

    "Hello, Darkness, my old friend..."

    No, I sing Black Magic Woman.
    Post edited by spinnytop on
    Squishy DPS builds that can solo QWZ w/videos.
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  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    **Santana guitar solo**
    'Dec out

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  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    Honestly, even the generic nemeses would be OK if 1. they weren't awful designs and 2. every single one of them wasn't stuck on the Infernal powerset.
    'Dec out

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    decorumfriends said:

    Honestly, even the generic nemeses would be OK if 1. they weren't awful designs and 2. every single one of them wasn't stuck on the Infernal powerset.

    Generic nemesis should be generated by having the game hit randomize in the costume creator :)
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  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    Amusing joke, but that would be horrific. :)
    'Dec out

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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    I'd love to see a generic Nemesis just be one of the official villains from the IP. Most are much more interesting and visually appealing than what we get now.
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Posts: 185 Arc User
    bulgarex said:

    I'd love to see a generic Nemesis just be one of the official villains from the IP. Most are much more interesting and visually appealing than what we get now.

    I'd agree with that. Let's have Black Paladin, or Fiacho... or Professor Muerte, Neutron, Big John and Bullet, or any of the many, many other villains Champions has access to.

    Or... better still... give us someone's actual NEMESIS in a Nemesis Alert.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    Crafting, Exploration and Interaction as it should be:
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1108521
  • ikonn#1068 ikonn
    ikonn#1068
         Posts: 68 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    I was wondering why these never showed up in the Alerts... now I know.

    Oh and I would recommend Back in Black or Highway to Hell for dark-themed Nemi’s.

    Or

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    Post edited by ikonn#1068 on
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    I said it before and I'll say it again in the hollow void that is the business world,
    Nemesis... Rampage.
    ...
    Process that for a bit.
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