I'm as casual as they come. I have been lifetime since before the game launched, I didn't reach level 40 on a single character until On Alert (and it was in Lemuria, not alerts), and I really, really enjoy the cosmic stuff. I wouldn't call myself a tryhard. I'm not a flagellant. My goal has never been to be the best, right away, and do the hardest content in the best way possible, or anything like that. Cosmics are not that hard. It's a very simple bit of rules to follow to "get the fight right." It doesn't take an elitist to block the storms or not shoot the hearts. People used to talk about Teleiosaurus being the worst, most hardest thing in gaming until we started beating it regularly and now that goalpost has moved to Eidolon who, incidentally, has been beaten several times per day quite regularly now.
I'm hardly a tryhard. I'm hardly a "beat your build against a wall until it's perfect" kind of guy. I'm not great at this game. Whenever I get a character to 40 that I want to keep playing, I load up on some super-cheap mercenary gear and just dive into cosmics to get Determination gear (as well as doing the onslaught thing for secondaries). It takes time, for sure, but it's not hard. By any means. How can you be a "tryhard" when what you're doing isn't hard for the casualest of the most casuals?
I only do cosmics cuz I find them fun. I like the nature of open missions. I run cosmics almost every day, and have never run a full TA because that's not my thing. If I was one of them tryhards that was always trying to get the most stuff from the hardest junk I'd be running TA all day. But that's like never, it's not my groove. Cosmics are honestly super casual, and that's why I like them. They often take time, yes. But they never require you to be the top of the pack (okay, Eidolon does, but one out of four ain't bad).
I'm going to be brutally honest about my opinion on the current PVE content : It is awful. Particularly alerts.. the first time you participate in them they're boring, and it only gets worse from repetition. And why are players putting themselves through this torture? To get to the rewards.
Or, they don't find them as boring as you do (after almost five years, I still like them just fine). That's the problem with basing ideas on something you think everyone shares but don't.
Also, until you've actually played it, saying the complaints 'sound like nonsense' rings a bit hollow and credibility-damaging.
**shrugs** That's why I said they SOUND like nonsense. Frankly several people whose opinions I trust are the ones indicating it. Your mileage may vary.
The complaint is not that the endgame content exists, or that the tryhards got thrown a bone. The comp;aint's that currently the people who enjoy such content are the only ones getting more than a few splinters. New powers? GCR grind. New costumes and gear? GCR grind.
OR much of it can be bought on the AH, which I've done a lot of. Some of it IS restricted, but...eh, I'm not one that has to have everything just to have it.
Only way to get GCR? Badly-tuned, brick-wall, Press-"Shift"-Not-To-Die fake difficulty slogfests. Worse, the aforementioned (by Sterga and Gradii) horrible, horrible, horrible design of these contents and the direction a lot of recent power reworks have gone have begun actively narrowing effective build archetypes and trying to force reliance on individual frameworks like glorified ATs - look at poor Ego Surge: gone from a theme-agnostic boost to an insulting mockery even in its native set, all in the name of 'making it balanced' - which traditionally has always been "take the ncie things away and hope people will try the garbage instead of just going to the next nice thing."
You couldn't have picked two people on these boards whose opinion I value less than those two. Constant complaints that things are not done exactly the way THEY want, and if it's not EXACTLY the way they want, it's the worst thing ever to happen in a video game EVER. Meh. Shall I add you to that list, because I don't see us agreeing on any of this.
How many other games have you given a decent try? if you haven't played many MMOs CO cosmics may seem great, but there are a lot of games out there which do things better.
Seriously, you consider that an argument?
"You can't enjoy that, because other games do it better."
That's weird, I don't remember being forced to change any of my builds to fit in the Endgame content
any change I did was by myself to IMPROVE my characters, not because i wanted to be in the Cool-kids-club, and it finally motivated me to play with my TANKS and build more characters in tank role
None of the revamps really ruined my builds, if anything most of them buff them more (Thank you Power Armour and Melee TK)
and there are still new synergies which people seem to ignore with the new stuff
Remember when you said I will get MAD when they get to revamp my own favorite powerframe(s)? well I didnt get mad
I'm enjoying both Cosmic and Teleios Ascendant, there are patterns which you need to follow and form strategy about and not have the DPS Tunnel vision
Im still enjoying PvE a lot and i level up my characters by doing missions
I never liked alerts personally, I only use them to farm dailies for Q and I refuse to level up a character through Grab alerts again, and if anything they all made us
My only complain, we need more end game lairs because I got tired of Open world bosses
Remember how I also complained of the difficulty spike? well... I Got Gud i guess
if anything the endgame difficulty made me realize that everything else is extremly easy and have soften everyone
look at poor Ego Surge: gone from a theme-agnostic boost to an insulting mockery even in its native set, all in the name of 'making it balanced' - which traditionally has always been "take the ncie things away and hope people will try the garbage instead of just going to the next nice thing."
Yes... "Poor Ego surge", it was disgusting OP everyone and their mothers were exploiting it
who woulda thought it?
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
When you can get enough people around (which is happening with increasing regularity), its actually not that bad at all. Initially I had a problem with trolls purposefully ruining encounters, but now it seems like players have learnt ways to salvage that situation or reset things much faster.
If I was the kind of person to run into Cosmics or TA without having done my research, then I'm pretty sure I would hate them. I think more than anything, with cosmics and to some extent TA, a certain level of skill and general combat & environment awareness is useful to help you manage the encounter. I just wish that earlier content was tailored to slowly make 'everyone' aware of that since it makes them better in general, even if they aren't doing things like TA or Cosmics.
I've seen people take on VIPER groups for example, without absolutely annihilating Brick Busters first, basic things like that need to be addressed.
It would be nice to see a mission chain or mission which prepared players for endgame content, if they felt like they needed prep. Then again, that would probably be redundant as we have guides (which people may read).
My take on End Game Lairs:
We already have Teleios Ascendant (Canada), so I'm thinking...
I'd like to see:
- Stronghold Endgame Lair (Desert) - Therakiel's Temple Endgame Lair (Vibora Bay) - Dr Destroyer's Factory Endgame Lair (Millennium City)
Should all be similar difficulty to TA, but I feel like TT would be the longest out of them all.
Again, I think the Endgame Lairs are fun if you have a good team, a bad team in any form of content can be an exceptional drag. Self improvement in your chosen role(s) can get you only so far.
Players have been asking for content which pushes team work (I know I have) and now that it is here and takes into consideration the amount of power all players have access to (but must grind to obtain) it becomes a problem when the team isn't good enough.
I think that as times goes on, more set ups which aren't so rigid should be viable for endgame but we'll have to wait and see.
I'm going to be brutally honest about my opinion on the current PVE content : It is awful. Particularly alerts.. the first time you participate in them they're boring, and it only gets worse from repetition. And why are players putting themselves through this torture? To get to the rewards.
Or, they don't find them as boring as you do (after almost five years, I still like them just fine). That's the problem with basing ideas on something you think everyone shares but don't.
Then please share your secret. How do you stop the brain getting bored of repeating the same thing over and over? I'm pretty sure that is just how the brain works. The more you repeat something, the less you get from it emotionally each time.
Of course this rate differs person to person...Some people get bored quickly, but others don't. Right now the game doesn't really cater to the person who gets bored quickly; and i imagine that is a sizable portion of the potential and possibly current playerbase. This thread's existence is contributing evidence to that.
My basis on thinking people share this idea, is the basis that they have a functioning brain that gets bored of things.
How many other games have you given a decent try? if you haven't played many MMOs CO cosmics may seem great, but there are a lot of games out there which do things better.
Seriously, you consider that an argument?
"You can't enjoy that, because other games do it better."
Gospel According to gradii strikes again.
Any more and I could have reported your post for personal attacks. A shame. Actually I still might.
I never said nobody is allowed to enjoy CO's crappy gameplay. I merely said that theres far better to be found elsewhere, but I do notice you enjoy twisting words.
As someone who likes the mapping system in PoE and D3, I also like alerts in CO. They let me skip the parts of the game I dislike the most and have the most variety. Sure, they are no where near as good as mapping in the other two games, but it's better than going through the linear story again.
Considering I hardly every see anyone else when I do go to those areas, most people probably run alerts. Not sure why more maps haven't been added. I doubt every tile set available has been used yet. How about some maps using Fury of the Dragon assets? It's basically the prettiest map in the whole game. Or Monster island maps. But not the caves because outside is less icky and dingy. Steel Crusade has the innards with those gross sounds that should be an alert map.
What if Unity stuff was a new type of alert? Like a dungeon finder but in PUGable alert form?
I never understood the obsession with end game content. Why does the rest of the game even exist if it's effectively not worth doing? Might as well remove it completely and just let everyone be level 40 from the get go.
What makes this game unique compared to other games is the degree of character customization it has.
It never stood out for it's revolutionary combat or quest system, nor for it's deep and complex lore and story telling. In both those departments it's pretty cookie cutter, so I don't follow what point you are trying to make with this statement.
"No pets, no AoEs, no Hybrids, and if you use this power too much we'll nerf it because gods forbid we make crap ones worth taking instead."
Gotta side with Blue on this one. One of my favorite characters to take into difficult content is Patchwork; she spawns support drones, combat drones, and Attack Toys, so when things get tough she's literally a one-man (well, one-woman) army. Except that I'm told, repeatedly, that pet builds are unwelcome at Cosmics, because the encounter is built precisely to ruin a pet commander.
Also, most of my toons rely on AoEs, because there are a [i]lot[/i] of times in-game when I'm alone and being jumped by 3-6 mobs of the same level or higher and I have to take them down before they kill me. Apparently that's a Bad Thing for Cosmic fights too.
I mean, can you imagine the X-Men facing down against Apocalypse and his Horsemen - only to be told that Multiple Man isn't allowed to spawn his clones, anyone with an energy blast less precise than Cyclops should stand down, and by the way, too many of them have hurt Apoc with super-strength, so now that doesn't work that well on him?
Our sister game STO handles this by having the endgame queues at more than one level of difficulty. If I could go against Kiga at Normal, and the tryhards could brag about how well they handle him on Elite, that would suit me just fine, same as my Normal runs in the old Fluidic Space queue let me succeed with a Risian cruiser (a converted luxury liner), while the guys with the special builds could go do the fight on Advanced or Elite and boast of their madd skillz.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Why pets need to be so weak against big bosses like Mega Destroyers. Make my summoner to be basicly useless and my healer much less effective. If at least that AoE won't add a huge DoT, I could heal them back. =/
Except that I'm told, repeatedly, that pet builds are unwelcome at Cosmics, because the encounter is built precisely to ruin a pet commander.
This is largely true and probably not going to be fixed in the near future. The problem, however, is primarily an issue of pet code (their AI is idiotic) and aura code, not with the content per se.
Also, most of my toons rely on AoEs, because there are a [i]lot[/i] of times in-game when I'm alone and being jumped by 3-6 mobs of the same level or higher and I have to take them down before they kill me. Apparently that's a Bad Thing for Cosmic fights too.
As long as you're competent at aiming, almost all AoEs can be used safely at cosmics, though they tend to have relatively poor dps.
I will say there is a funny disconnect between leveling content and end game content.
Leveling content can really be done solo by virtually all half way decent FFs and probably by most well-handled ATs. I actually enjoy leveling characters by running the same old missions because I am trying out new power combinations (I guess I would get bored if I did all the missions using nothing but 2GM and Lead Tempest each time). It was loads of fun throwing lots of grenades around as I leveled my most recent 40. Basically you can get to 40 on your own. Sure, you do alerts as a group, but they are only nominally groups since they really don't require any group planning or interaction.
When you get to 40 (or close to 40) the paradigm shifts and the content becomes group focused where it is much more important for players to know what role they need to fill, and how best to fill it and to communicate with each other. Things really become much more trinity focused with almost an emphasis on something close to single stating. I.e. Rampages, Cosmics, TA, Eido.
The good old Hybrid characters using Invulnerability to survive or AoPM for energy for leveling are not so useful, and can even be down right detrimental to group success in end game. Of course, there are ways to build around this (e.g. by have builds that have more than 1 passive to use depending on the situation). However, I wish we could have 1) some kinds of lower level missions that require real team interaction to be successful, and then 2) also some more soloable, but challenging, end game missions that give some decent, but limited rewards. The QWZ dailies are close to that, but, speaking only for myself, I really don't like the look of the environment (to much blackish-purple) and it puts me off from doing the missions there. What I crave is something at about that difficulty level in the other available zones that don't hurt my eyes and fry my brain.
The easiest way to have things at higher difficulty in other zones is to update the level-up tables for various mob categories mobs (generic mobs get various bonuses as they gain levels; Warzone added new nasty stuff to destroids, elder worms, horrors, that are supposed to kick in at high levels though some of them bled through into lower level content). However, if that happens, SKing really needs to be rebalanced as well; SKing up should give a larger power boost, SKing down a larger power reduction.
The obvious candidates for high level faction rebalance would be the ones already in high level zones or areas. The big wins would be the UNITY factions (other than Elder Worms, which are already updated). Lemurians: instantly rebalances Andrith, Mandragalore, Lemurian Invasion. They also share a lot of moves with Bleak Minions and Karkaradons, which could be updated at the same time. VIPER: update some adventure packs and a bunch of higher level missions. Note that VIPER has been updated more recently than many factions, and is thus already a bit more powerful. Qularr: mostly for UNITY, though they do have some mid-30s content on MI.
The next step would probably be the five Vibora Bay factions, as that updates Therakiel's Temple and UNITY 2. Beyond that there's a mess of minor factions.
Also, most of my toons rely on AoEs, because there are a [i]lot[/i] of times in-game when I'm alone and being jumped by 3-6 mobs of the same level or higher and I have to take them down before they kill me. Apparently that's a Bad Thing for Cosmic fights too.
An interesting statement. I think this is borne out of the fact that you mainly do open world missions where you can just aoe everything down. That's how I would build too if all I did was those missions. Because I do content where the ability to quickly nuke down a single target can be very important, I have a bit more variety in how I build because I need more tactics to survive. But yeah as Panta pointed out, aoes aren't bad at cosmics so long as you're aware of what you're hitting. Don't mind the people screaming NO AOES ( haven't noticed them for quite a while actually ). I mean hell, my PA uses aoes constantly, so if "Aoes are bad and not allowed!" were true, my PA wouldn't be allowed... and she does the Eido!
As for pet masters, as Panta pointed out, pets suck... like their AI and the fact that they suck up aura slots. For our current endgame content to accept our current pets they would basically need to be made so that we could have a large group of insane morons there just randomly attacking everything in sight... because that's what pets basically are. Personally I think pets could be a lot better than their current "swarm of bees" implementation overall. I've never found pet master characters very interesting personally because there isn't much for me to do with pets... just summon them and then play as usual.
The good old Hybrid characters using Invulnerability to survive or AoPM for energy for leveling are not so useful, and can even be down right detrimental to group success in end game.
Those hybrid characters should consider tanking... they already have the passive for it
Those characters using AoPM for energy are being silly and could easily meet their energy needs without it ~3~ quite silly indeed!
Those hybrid characters should consider tanking... they already have the passive for it
Fun fact, I turned all my hybrids with defensive passives into actual tanks after the cosmic update (because I had finally a reason to play as full tank) and boy it was worth it
also Reminder that I offtanked TA multiply times as well as helped tanking in cosmics with a Regen Tank! SWOOOOOOCE~
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
How many other games have you given a decent try? if you haven't played many MMOs CO cosmics may seem great, but there are a lot of games out there which do things better.
I've played lots of games, but most other games sorely lack the part of this game that I find the most important:
I get to play Disney animal superhero.
Personally, one of my favorite MMOs is Wildstar. I love everything about it, from the combat to the style to the housing and their visual customization. As you might guess, my favorite content in that game is the world bosses (basically their cosmics) and guess what? I think they do it better than Champs does. More interesting mechanics, I love the aoe tells and how you have to deal with them, it's good fun.
The way these encounters are built also really speaks to me. I have social anxiety so even grouping in MMOs is a problem for me. What's not a problem is when I can just join up into a big group without having to talk to anyone about it. And leave whenever I have to. In this area the two games are the same. This is the kind of group content I can do.
So this begs the question, if I like Wildstar so much and think they even do my favorite kind of content a bit better than Champions, why am I spending my time here?
I'm a huge friggin' fan of comic books and superheroes.
That's part of the reason why this game and no other has kept my attention for 8 years. Like, actively playing it for eight years. And in those 8 years, cosmics are some of the most fun and definitely the most engaging content I've been a part of. They ain't perfect, they could be better, but they're still fun. And I get to super punch them as a big ol' meat head in tights.
I'm a huge friggin' fan of comic books and superheroes.
That's part of the reason why this game and no other has kept my attention for 8 years. Like, actively playing it for eight years. And in those 8 years, cosmics are some of the most fun and definitely the most engaging content I've been a part of. They ain't perfect, they could be better, but they're still fun. And I get to super punch them as a big ol' meat head in tights.
Daily Reminder:The year is 2017 and your Hybrid AoPM is worthless, get a DPS passive to deal damage or go home hippie
Way to make bluegrass's point for him.
Though again, this is bad power design, not bad content design. The big problem is that the logic used to put diminishing returns on stacked auras can actually mean a weak aura has a net negative contribution, and hybrid auras are designed to be weak (at the time that decision was made, there was no diminishing returns on stacked auras).
Well it was more about the "if your build isn't right, you can leave" elitism in his argument than anything else.
But, I totally agree on the bad power design. Most glaring is the pets and how that entire build type is verboten.
And yeah, someone else already covered it but the whole "no aoe" thing is a thing of the past. Heck I can use Fire all Weapons and Showdown at Qwyjibo and not hit anything I'm not supposed to.
And yeah, someone else already covered it but the whole "no aoe" thing is a thing of the past. Heck I can use Fire all Weapons and Showdown at Qwyjibo and not hit anything I'm not supposed to.
You can use Showdown perfectly fine in Qwyjibo without hitting the hearts
You just need to position yourself correctly in the right range, the only time I accidently hit a heart was because Qwyjibo was badly positioned and the heart right was in melee range
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Amen, brother Biff! You speak for me as well. I'm not so much interested in computer/video games as such. I like the superheroes.
Dontcha know, it's against the rules to speak for your own personal self. You have to 100% agree with the other person and some such, or I don't know.
What keeps me playing is the setting to. Kind of tiring playing the same fantasy setting that keeps repeating the same raid mechanics over and over (aka WoW) and some how people think it's doing something monumentally different. It's just a fact, that fantasy is just where people go. Super Hero genre is not very popular in the video game market, let alone MMOs.
Though again, this is bad power design, not bad content design. The big problem is that the logic used to put diminishing returns on stacked auras can actually mean a weak aura has a net negative contribution, and hybrid auras are designed to be weak (at the time that decision was made, there was no diminishing returns on stacked auras).
I then wonder, would it be acceptable to campaign for Support Auras in Hybrid Slots to simply not apply any bonuses to team mates?
I say that as someone who has a main who uses AoPM in Hybrid Role. I've avoided imposing my unsupportive AoPM at Cosmic Events but I will do other content where I can.
I don't think Hybrid Builds with AoPM would lose out any way if that additional and in some cases negligible stat bonus was just removed and split between the self portion of the aura for support and hybrid.
So hybrid AoPM users would gain a bit more stat than they currently do and support AoPM users would be able to boost and gain a bit more than they currently do.
I then wonder, would it be acceptable to campaign for Support Auras in Hybrid Slots to simply not apply any bonuses to team mates?
Probably? I'm guessing most people who use hybrid auras don't care about buffing teammates in the first place.
That's very true, I've only ever taken AoPM in Hybrid Role, if I want to buff, I'd spec for it and switch to Support, as the support version can be very strong.
I then wonder, would it be acceptable to campaign for Support Auras in Hybrid Slots to simply not apply any bonuses to team mates?
Probably? I'm guessing most people who use hybrid auras don't care about buffing teammates in the first place.
Most cases they don't, and those that do don't take presence anyways, or if they do, it's a minimal amount to even make the aura useful to everyone else. The problem with most hybrids isn't they are weak, they aren't, just most players build them selfishly when they are suppose to be aimed more towards multiple roles for a team, not for themselves to begin with.
just most players build them selfishly when they are suppose to be aimed more towards multiple roles for a team, not for themselves to begin with.
I don't think there's much wrong with wanting to build a hybrid and participate in end game content (I know this isn't what you are saying here), but there are some who actively name and shame hybrid role players for even nosing around the edges of Cosmic gatherings.
I personally don't think that's right, everyone can disagree if they wish.
I do remember the first week of revamped cosmics where EVERYONE was mucking in regardless of their role...was pretty fun (and chaotic) from what I remember until all the restrictions and penalties came into play to take Cosmics where they were right now.
There have been positive and negative results from that, depending on where you stand.
I wouldn't mind having AoPM's support portion removed and turned into it's own Support Aura actually, that way AoPM could be more of a Hybrid role self buff (possible minor paranormal resist) passive and the Support Aura could be similar but obviously work to mostly support others.
Might be a terrible idea but then again...it's 1AM for me X_X
just most players build them selfishly when they are suppose to be aimed more towards multiple roles for a team, not for themselves to begin with.
I don't think there's much wrong with wanting to build a hybrid and participate in end game content (I know this isn't what you are saying here), but there are some who actively name and shame hybrid role players for even nosing around the edges of Cosmic gatherings.
I personally don't think that's right, everyone can disagree if they wish.
I do remember the first week of revamped cosmics where EVERYONE was mucking in regardless of their role...was pretty fun (and chaotic) from what I remember until all the restrictions and penalties came into play to take Cosmics where they were right now.
There have been positive and negative results from that, depending on where you stand.
I wouldn't mind having AoPM's support portion removed and turned into it's own Support Aura actually, that way AoPM could be more of a Hybrid role self buff (possible minor paranormal resist) passive and the Support Aura could be similar but obviously work to mostly support others.
Might be a terrible idea but then again...it's 1AM for me X_X
Yes
It's not right and I don't agree with it. But I don't agree with the hybrids that show up and don't do what they can to improve themselves, and they help spread the stigma of hybrids. It's a double edged sword.
I don't think there's much wrong with wanting to build a hybrid and participate in end game content (I know this isn't what you are saying here), but there are some who actively name and shame hybrid role players for even nosing around the edges of Cosmic gatherings.
Sure, people do things. I'm sure those people were unpleasant even before we got endgame. Nobody became a jerk just because cosmics were revamped.
Also hybrids are fine at Kiga and Ape. I don't know why people say "HYBRIDS NO END GAME". They can show up at literally 2/3 of the regular cosmics and nobody will give a flying fiddle. And hell, as long as we're not just blowing dps checks left and right at dino nobody will care either - it's only when we've been failing for 30 minutes and we look at the team up and see that half the 'dps' are hybrids... and at that point it's basically a matter of "You're not gonna get anything either if things continue like this, what's your plan here?". And of course in TA hybrids can just go ahead and off tank since the reason they're a hybrid is to have high survival ability.
Yeah, hybrids aren't so helpful at Dino. So let's say Dino, not endgame.
Then please share your secret. How do you stop the brain getting bored of repeating the same thing over and over?
Oh, that's easy. I don't consider myself doing the same thing over and over. I'm an altaholic and all my characters play differently (intentionally) so each time is somewhat of a new experience (added to the "there's different players in this one", so it plays out differently).
Thing is you made it seem like the only reason I could possibly like these cosmic fights is because I probably haven't played any other MMOs, and that's just flat-out false. Part of the reason why this game stays fresh to me is that I'm able to create new characters that's beyond "another warrior with a different name". I literally have a bunch of characters with just about the same build, doing the same content to level up, but it doesn't feel like I'm doing the same thing all over again because I'm getting into this other character.
I think the cosmics are great because considering everything that this game is, it's perfect for me. Other games might do it a little better, but they're not the whole package. Champions is. I don't think I made your point for you because you think I only like cosmics because I have a lack of experience with "better" games, but it's quite the opposite. I like cosmics despite "better" games.
"Not being any good for gameplay" is absolutely not what I said. I do love the gameplay in this game. I find it fun and engaging, despite other games out there that do it differently and sometimes better. I like some things about Neverwinter. I like some things about Wildstar. But I like so much more about Champions. I don't play this game as any sort of "last resort." This game was my choice. I abandoned several other games/MMOs because of Champions. I stopped playing WoW and City of Heroes when I found Champions. Conan, Warhammer, Old Republic, Scarlet Blade (yes I tried it and you can laugh at me all you want, I laugh at me too for trying it!), Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2, and I'm sure a ton of others I can't even remember (what a testament to how well those games resonated with me); all these games have been no more than a flash in the pan for me.
Champions is absolutely wonderful for gameplay, it's absolutely wonderful for creating characters. Heck I like my characters so much I'm even drawing comics about them. Super fun! The game is not perfect, but I can say that about every single other game I've played.
Definitely a case of different strokes, but I'll thank you for not trying to diminish my standpoint by saying Champions is less than perfect when the perfect game doesn't exist (and if it did, it probably wouldn't have superheroes in it so it gets a C+ at best from me).
Also thanks for proving my point, Avianos. Your screeching is the best evidence I could ask for. Yes, poor Ego Surge.
>Screeching
>Evidence
and about Ego Surge being Theme Neutral, it wasn't, it covers you with Pink Jello
and my opinion about Hybrids and endgame still stands, just try and bring Hybrids instead of DPS, TANKS and SUPPORT in Eidolon of Destruction and see how this will come out
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Also thanks for proving my point, Avianos. Your screeching is the best evidence I could ask for. Yes, poor Ego Surge.
>Screeching
>Evidence
and about Ego Surge being Theme Neutral, it wasn't, it covers you with Pink Jello
and my opinion about Hybrids and endgame still stands, just try and bring Hybrids instead of DPS, TANKS and SUPPORT in Eidolon of Destruction and see how this will come out
Edit: oh my god trash forums can't even quote correctly. My reply follows:
No, see, again you prove his point. "Build this way or you're not welcome." You're reinforcing his argument that in this particular case, he is not wrong.
I suppose we could have a discussion about whether it's elitist or pragmatic to bar hybrids from Eidolon. The fight is super hard and a sub-optimal character will make it harder due to scaling. Either word you choose, though, it doesn't matter. The end result is that Eidolon runs are always "only bring your BEST dps that IS IN DPS ROLE and has a DPS PASSIVE." That is super excluding lots of people and even though I think I do okay DPS, I feel bad showing up because I'm only sporting rank 7 mods sometimes. I don't know for sure if I fit the bill or if I'm helping more than I'm hurting. This kind of thing is not the kind of thing you want in a social environment. You want to be inclusive not exclusive. This game sadly has ventured (in a very small amount of places) into exclusivity.
As far as ego surge goes... It simply makes you glow. That is basically the most theme-neutral thing you can have right next to "having no animation or visual effects of any kind".
As far as ego surge goes... It simply makes you glow. That is basically the most theme-neutral thing you can have right next to "having no animation or visual effects of any kind".
It really not... that Glowing aura (with the sound effect) is enough to ruin immersion OH I'M GROWING PINK NOW... for no reason
Imbue and Lock'n'Load are also good AOs for theme neutral and don't hijack your appearence with pink glow
Imbue justs give you a short cute head aura which dissapears
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Tell this to silver players with FF slots who cannot colour powers
I'm focusing on the Default colour because i cannot change it
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
cryptic says 'well, that's what you get for being a cheapskate'
Cheapskate? oh how dare you?
I take offense of that, ESPECIALLY because FF slot is not "CHEAP"
and because this goes on another subject how much of BS is locking the ability to change power colours behind premium pay walls
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
well, if people keep bringing it up, maybe they'll eventually move power coloring from sub status to freeform slots - of course, PWE will then shut the game down a week later
That it was limiting build viability at a mechanical level.
And yet build viability at a mechanical level is more diverse than its ever been. But sure go ahead and keep covering your eyes and plugging your ears and going "lalala reality isn't what it is!". You seem to be having more fun with that.
As far as ego surge goes... It simply makes you glow. That is basically the most theme-neutral thing you can have right next to "having no animation or visual effects of any kind".
So.. all those other AOs that have no animation or visual effect of any kind. Well, then bluegrass should be glad there's a reason to start using them instead of Christmas Tree Surge.
Also, I feel like we're really stretching the word "elitist" to encompass all trinity content now. "Don't just bring whatever role" is elitist now? Well, then almost all MMOs are elitist. If avianos saying "Don't bring the roles that can't win the fight" on two encounters means that our entire endgame is elitist then sure he's reinforcing bluegrass's point...and pointing out that nearly every other MMO is a ton more elitist than CO. I think that's a bit of a stretch.
Also, it's really hard to make an argument for players being shut out when in this altsy game it's just so easy to switch to a different character that fills the role in question. I mean sure there are some people who only use one role and refuse to ever build a character of any other role... but, you know, build diversity. I only mention this because it seems like the same people saying "this elitist content shuts me out!" are just so often the same people saying "I have a ton of alts" and "but build diversity!" and yet when it comes time to use all those alts and diversity to their advantage suddenly they only have one toon, and it's an aopm hybrid.
Comments
I'm hardly a tryhard. I'm hardly a "beat your build against a wall until it's perfect" kind of guy. I'm not great at this game. Whenever I get a character to 40 that I want to keep playing, I load up on some super-cheap mercenary gear and just dive into cosmics to get Determination gear (as well as doing the onslaught thing for secondaries). It takes time, for sure, but it's not hard. By any means. How can you be a "tryhard" when what you're doing isn't hard for the casualest of the most casuals?
I only do cosmics cuz I find them fun. I like the nature of open missions. I run cosmics almost every day, and have never run a full TA because that's not my thing. If I was one of them tryhards that was always trying to get the most stuff from the hardest junk I'd be running TA all day. But that's like never, it's not my groove. Cosmics are honestly super casual, and that's why I like them. They often take time, yes. But they never require you to be the top of the pack (okay, Eidolon does, but one out of four ain't bad).
"You can't enjoy that, because other games do it better."
Gospel According to gradii strikes again.
any change I did was by myself to IMPROVE my characters, not because i wanted to be in the Cool-kids-club, and it finally motivated me to play with my TANKS and build more characters in tank role
None of the revamps really ruined my builds, if anything most of them buff them more (Thank you Power Armour and Melee TK)
and there are still new synergies which people seem to ignore with the new stuff
Remember when you said I will get MAD when they get to revamp my own favorite powerframe(s)? well I didnt get mad
I'm enjoying both Cosmic and Teleios Ascendant, there are patterns which you need to follow and form strategy about and not have the DPS Tunnel vision
Im still enjoying PvE a lot and i level up my characters by doing missions
I never liked alerts personally, I only use them to farm dailies for Q and I refuse to level up a character through Grab alerts again, and if anything they all made us
My only complain, we need more end game lairs because I got tired of Open world bosses
Remember how I also complained of the difficulty spike? well... I Got Gud i guess
if anything the endgame difficulty made me realize that everything else is extremly easy and have soften everyone Yes... "Poor Ego surge", it was disgusting OP everyone and their mothers were exploiting it
who woulda thought it?
When you can get enough people around (which is happening with increasing regularity), its actually not that bad at all. Initially I had a problem with trolls purposefully ruining encounters, but now it seems like players have learnt ways to salvage that situation or reset things much faster.
If I was the kind of person to run into Cosmics or TA without having done my research, then I'm pretty sure I would hate them. I think more than anything, with cosmics and to some extent TA, a certain level of skill and general combat & environment awareness is useful to help you manage the encounter. I just wish that earlier content was tailored to slowly make 'everyone' aware of that since it makes them better in general, even if they aren't doing things like TA or Cosmics.
I've seen people take on VIPER groups for example, without absolutely annihilating Brick Busters first, basic things like that need to be addressed.
It would be nice to see a mission chain or mission which prepared players for endgame content, if they felt like they needed prep. Then again, that would probably be redundant as we have guides (which people may read).
My take on End Game Lairs:
We already have Teleios Ascendant (Canada), so I'm thinking...
I'd like to see:
- Stronghold Endgame Lair (Desert)
- Therakiel's Temple Endgame Lair (Vibora Bay)
- Dr Destroyer's Factory Endgame Lair (Millennium City)
Should all be similar difficulty to TA, but I feel like TT would be the longest out of them all.
Again, I think the Endgame Lairs are fun if you have a good team, a bad team in any form of content can be an exceptional drag. Self improvement in your chosen role(s) can get you only so far.
Players have been asking for content which pushes team work (I know I have) and now that it is here and takes into consideration the amount of power all players have access to (but must grind to obtain) it becomes a problem when the team isn't good enough.
I think that as times goes on, more set ups which aren't so rigid should be viable for endgame but we'll have to wait and see.
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Of course this rate differs person to person...Some people get bored quickly, but others don't. Right now the game doesn't really cater to the person who gets bored quickly; and i imagine that is a sizable portion of the potential and possibly current playerbase. This thread's existence is contributing evidence to that.
My basis on thinking people share this idea, is the basis that they have a functioning brain that gets bored of things.
Any more and I could have reported your post for personal attacks. A shame. Actually I still might.
I never said nobody is allowed to enjoy CO's crappy gameplay. I merely said that theres far better to be found elsewhere, but I do notice you enjoy twisting words.
Considering I hardly every see anyone else when I do go to those areas, most people probably run alerts. Not sure why more maps haven't been added. I doubt every tile set available has been used yet. How about some maps using Fury of the Dragon assets? It's basically the prettiest map in the whole game. Or Monster island maps. But not the caves because outside is less icky and dingy. Steel Crusade has the innards with those gross sounds that should be an alert map.
What if Unity stuff was a new type of alert? Like a dungeon finder but in PUGable alert form?
I never understood the obsession with end game content. Why does the rest of the game even exist if it's effectively not worth doing? Might as well remove it completely and just let everyone be level 40 from the get go.
Eh, the insults aren't that bad.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Also, most of my toons rely on AoEs, because there are a [i]lot[/i] of times in-game when I'm alone and being jumped by 3-6 mobs of the same level or higher and I have to take them down before they kill me. Apparently that's a Bad Thing for Cosmic fights too.
I mean, can you imagine the X-Men facing down against Apocalypse and his Horsemen - only to be told that Multiple Man isn't allowed to spawn his clones, anyone with an energy blast less precise than Cyclops should stand down, and by the way, too many of them have hurt Apoc with super-strength, so now that doesn't work that well on him?
Our sister game STO handles this by having the endgame queues at more than one level of difficulty. If I could go against Kiga at Normal, and the tryhards could brag about how well they handle him on Elite, that would suit me just fine, same as my Normal runs in the old Fluidic Space queue let me succeed with a Risian cruiser (a converted luxury liner), while the guys with the special builds could go do the fight on Advanced or Elite and boast of their madd skillz.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Leveling content can really be done solo by virtually all half way decent FFs and probably by most well-handled ATs. I actually enjoy leveling characters by running the same old missions because I am trying out new power combinations (I guess I would get bored if I did all the missions using nothing but 2GM and Lead Tempest each time). It was loads of fun throwing lots of grenades around as I leveled my most recent 40. Basically you can get to 40 on your own. Sure, you do alerts as a group, but they are only nominally groups since they really don't require any group planning or interaction.
When you get to 40 (or close to 40) the paradigm shifts and the content becomes group focused where it is much more important for players to know what role they need to fill, and how best to fill it and to communicate with each other. Things really become much more trinity focused with almost an emphasis on something close to single stating. I.e. Rampages, Cosmics, TA, Eido.
The good old Hybrid characters using Invulnerability to survive or AoPM for energy for leveling are not so useful, and can even be down right detrimental to group success in end game. Of course, there are ways to build around this (e.g. by have builds that have more than 1 passive to use depending on the situation). However, I wish we could have 1) some kinds of lower level missions that require real team interaction to be successful, and then 2) also some more soloable, but challenging, end game missions that give some decent, but limited rewards. The QWZ dailies are close to that, but, speaking only for myself, I really don't like the look of the environment (to much blackish-purple) and it puts me off from doing the missions there. What I crave is something at about that difficulty level in the other available zones that don't hurt my eyes and fry my brain.
The obvious candidates for high level faction rebalance would be the ones already in high level zones or areas. The big wins would be the UNITY factions (other than Elder Worms, which are already updated).
Lemurians: instantly rebalances Andrith, Mandragalore, Lemurian Invasion. They also share a lot of moves with Bleak Minions and Karkaradons, which could be updated at the same time.
VIPER: update some adventure packs and a bunch of higher level missions. Note that VIPER has been updated more recently than many factions, and is thus already a bit more powerful.
Qularr: mostly for UNITY, though they do have some mid-30s content on MI.
The next step would probably be the five Vibora Bay factions, as that updates Therakiel's Temple and UNITY 2. Beyond that there's a mess of minor factions.
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An interesting statement. I think this is borne out of the fact that you mainly do open world missions where you can just aoe everything down. That's how I would build too if all I did was those missions. Because I do content where the ability to quickly nuke down a single target can be very important, I have a bit more variety in how I build because I need more tactics to survive. But yeah as Panta pointed out, aoes aren't bad at cosmics so long as you're aware of what you're hitting. Don't mind the people screaming NO AOES ( haven't noticed them for quite a while actually ). I mean hell, my PA uses aoes constantly, so if "Aoes are bad and not allowed!" were true, my PA wouldn't be allowed... and she does the Eido!
As for pet masters, as Panta pointed out, pets suck... like their AI and the fact that they suck up aura slots. For our current endgame content to accept our current pets they would basically need to be made so that we could have a large group of insane morons there just randomly attacking everything in sight... because that's what pets basically are. Personally I think pets could be a lot better than their current "swarm of bees" implementation overall. I've never found pet master characters very interesting personally because there isn't much for me to do with pets... just summon them and then play as usual.
Those hybrid characters should consider tanking... they already have the passive for it
Those characters using AoPM for energy are being silly and could easily meet their energy needs without it ~3~ quite silly indeed!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Daily Reminder:The year is 2017 and your Hybrid AoPM is worthless, get a DPS passive to deal damage or go home hippie Fun fact, I turned all my hybrids with defensive passives into actual tanks after the cosmic update (because I had finally a reason to play as full tank) and boy it was worth it
also Reminder that I offtanked TA multiply times as well as helped tanking in cosmics with a Regen Tank! SWOOOOOOCE~
How many other games have you given a decent try? if you haven't played many MMOs CO cosmics may seem great, but there are a lot of games out there which do things better.
I've played lots of games, but most other games sorely lack the part of this game that I find the most important:
I get to play
Disney animalsuperhero.Personally, one of my favorite MMOs is Wildstar. I love everything about it, from the combat to the style to the housing and their visual customization. As you might guess, my favorite content in that game is the world bosses (basically their cosmics) and guess what? I think they do it better than Champs does. More interesting mechanics, I love the aoe tells and how you have to deal with them, it's good fun.
The way these encounters are built also really speaks to me. I have social anxiety so even grouping in MMOs is a problem for me. What's not a problem is when I can just join up into a big group without having to talk to anyone about it. And leave whenever I have to. In this area the two games are the same. This is the kind of group content I can do.
So this begs the question, if I like Wildstar so much and think they even do my favorite kind of content a bit better than Champions, why am I spending my time here?
I'm a huge friggin' fan of comic books and superheroes.
That's part of the reason why this game and no other has kept my attention for 8 years. Like, actively playing it for eight years. And in those 8 years, cosmics are some of the most fun and definitely the most engaging content I've been a part of. They ain't perfect, they could be better, but they're still fun. And I get to super punch them as a big ol' meat head in tights.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
But, I totally agree on the bad power design. Most glaring is the pets and how that entire build type is verboten.
And yeah, someone else already covered it but the whole "no aoe" thing is a thing of the past. Heck I can use Fire all Weapons and Showdown at Qwyjibo and not hit anything I'm not supposed to.
You just need to position yourself correctly in the right range, the only time I accidently hit a heart was because Qwyjibo was badly positioned and the heart right was in melee range
What keeps me playing is the setting to. Kind of tiring playing the same fantasy setting that keeps repeating the same raid mechanics over and over (aka WoW) and some how people think it's doing something monumentally different. It's just a fact, that fantasy is just where people go. Super Hero genre is not very popular in the video game market, let alone MMOs.
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I say that as someone who has a main who uses AoPM in Hybrid Role. I've avoided imposing my unsupportive AoPM at Cosmic Events but I will do other content where I can.
I don't think Hybrid Builds with AoPM would lose out any way if that additional and in some cases negligible stat bonus was just removed and split between the self portion of the aura for support and hybrid.
So hybrid AoPM users would gain a bit more stat than they currently do and support AoPM users would be able to boost and gain a bit more than they currently do. Hey now...there's nothing much wrong with Hybrid AoPM! #DontHate
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I personally don't think that's right, everyone can disagree if they wish.
I do remember the first week of revamped cosmics where EVERYONE was mucking in regardless of their role...was pretty fun (and chaotic) from what I remember until all the restrictions and penalties came into play to take Cosmics where they were right now.
There have been positive and negative results from that, depending on where you stand.
I wouldn't mind having AoPM's support portion removed and turned into it's own Support Aura actually, that way AoPM could be more of a Hybrid role self buff (possible minor paranormal resist) passive and the Support Aura could be similar but obviously work to mostly support others.
Might be a terrible idea but then again...it's 1AM for me X_X
Yes
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Tho... weren't you saying the content was elitist? So what does what a player says have to do with it. Is Avianos content? o3o Sure, people do things. I'm sure those people were unpleasant even before we got endgame. Nobody became a jerk just because cosmics were revamped.
Also hybrids are fine at Kiga and Ape. I don't know why people say "HYBRIDS NO END GAME". They can show up at literally 2/3 of the regular cosmics and nobody will give a flying fiddle. And hell, as long as we're not just blowing dps checks left and right at dino nobody will care either - it's only when we've been failing for 30 minutes and we look at the team up and see that half the 'dps' are hybrids... and at that point it's basically a matter of "You're not gonna get anything either if things continue like this, what's your plan here?". And of course in TA hybrids can just go ahead and off tank since the reason they're a hybrid is to have high survival ability.
Yeah, hybrids aren't so helpful at Dino. So let's say Dino, not endgame.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I think the cosmics are great because considering everything that this game is, it's perfect for me. Other games might do it a little better, but they're not the whole package. Champions is. I don't think I made your point for you because you think I only like cosmics because I have a lack of experience with "better" games, but it's quite the opposite. I like cosmics despite "better" games.
"Not being any good for gameplay" is absolutely not what I said. I do love the gameplay in this game. I find it fun and engaging, despite other games out there that do it differently and sometimes better. I like some things about Neverwinter. I like some things about Wildstar. But I like so much more about Champions. I don't play this game as any sort of "last resort." This game was my choice. I abandoned several other games/MMOs because of Champions. I stopped playing WoW and City of Heroes when I found Champions. Conan, Warhammer, Old Republic, Scarlet Blade (yes I tried it and you can laugh at me all you want, I laugh at me too for trying it!), Guild Wars 1, Guild Wars 2, and I'm sure a ton of others I can't even remember (what a testament to how well those games resonated with me); all these games have been no more than a flash in the pan for me.
Champions is absolutely wonderful for gameplay, it's absolutely wonderful for creating characters. Heck I like my characters so much I'm even drawing comics about them. Super fun! The game is not perfect, but I can say that about every single other game I've played.
Definitely a case of different strokes, but I'll thank you for not trying to diminish my standpoint by saying Champions is less than perfect when the perfect game doesn't exist (and if it did, it probably wouldn't have superheroes in it so it gets a C+ at best from me).
>Evidence
and about Ego Surge being Theme Neutral, it wasn't, it covers you with Pink Jello
and my opinion about Hybrids and endgame still stands, just try and bring Hybrids instead of DPS, TANKS and SUPPORT in Eidolon of Destruction and see how this will come out
>Evidence
and about Ego Surge being Theme Neutral, it wasn't, it covers you with Pink Jello
and my opinion about Hybrids and endgame still stands, just try and bring Hybrids instead of DPS, TANKS and SUPPORT in Eidolon of Destruction and see how this will come out
Edit: oh my god trash forums can't even quote correctly. My reply follows:
No, see, again you prove his point. "Build this way or you're not welcome." You're reinforcing his argument that in this particular case, he is not wrong.
I suppose we could have a discussion about whether it's elitist or pragmatic to bar hybrids from Eidolon. The fight is super hard and a sub-optimal character will make it harder due to scaling. Either word you choose, though, it doesn't matter. The end result is that Eidolon runs are always "only bring your BEST dps that IS IN DPS ROLE and has a DPS PASSIVE." That is super excluding lots of people and even though I think I do okay DPS, I feel bad showing up because I'm only sporting rank 7 mods sometimes. I don't know for sure if I fit the bill or if I'm helping more than I'm hurting. This kind of thing is not the kind of thing you want in a social environment. You want to be inclusive not exclusive. This game sadly has ventured (in a very small amount of places) into exclusivity.
As far as ego surge goes... It simply makes you glow. That is basically the most theme-neutral thing you can have right next to "having no animation or visual effects of any kind".
It really not... that Glowing aura (with the sound effect) is enough to ruin immersion OH I'M GROWING PINK NOW... for no reason
Imbue and Lock'n'Load are also good AOs for theme neutral and don't hijack your appearence with pink glow
Imbue justs give you a short cute head aura which dissapears
I'm focusing on the Default colour because i cannot change it
I take offense of that, ESPECIALLY because FF slot is not "CHEAP"
and because this goes on another subject how much of BS is locking the ability to change power colours behind premium pay walls
Also, I feel like we're really stretching the word "elitist" to encompass all trinity content now. "Don't just bring whatever role" is elitist now? Well, then almost all MMOs are elitist. If avianos saying "Don't bring the roles that can't win the fight" on two encounters means that our entire endgame is elitist then sure he's reinforcing bluegrass's point...and pointing out that nearly every other MMO is a ton more elitist than CO. I think that's a bit of a stretch.
Also, it's really hard to make an argument for players being shut out when in this altsy game it's just so easy to switch to a different character that fills the role in question. I mean sure there are some people who only use one role and refuse to ever build a character of any other role... but, you know, build diversity. I only mention this because it seems like the same people saying "this elitist content shuts me out!" are just so often the same people saying "I have a ton of alts" and "but build diversity!" and yet when it comes time to use all those alts and diversity to their advantage suddenly they only have one toon, and it's an aopm hybrid.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.