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    flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    Maybe the Events are done and they need to make new shiney....stuff.
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    nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    gradii said:

    I think we've had enough magic for awhile.​​

    Nah we need more magic. Darkness and Celestial haven't even had their pass yet, and I think Sorcery could use a revisit :'3
    Your hentai Sailor moon though you would say that.
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    nepht said:

    Your hentai Sailor moon though you would say that.

    MOON BEAM SPARKLE BUBBLE CANNON! *blasts away teh poopy nepht* o3o
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    nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    nepht said:

    Your hentai Sailor moon though you would say that.

    MOON BEAM SPARKLE BUBBLE CANNON! *blasts away teh poopy nepht* o3o
    Replaying Pokemon Red just now so I'm ina whole other universe your magical hentai girl powers wont work on me.
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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
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    championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    nepht said:

    spinnytop said:

    nepht said:

    Your hentai Sailor moon though you would say that.

    MOON BEAM SPARKLE BUBBLE CANNON! *blasts away teh poopy nepht* o3o
    Replaying Pokemon Red just now so I'm ina whole other universe your magical hentai girl powers wont work on me.
    Pretty sure being from a magical monster universe means it would be super effective against you.
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    nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    Depends how drunk I am.

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    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    nepht said:

    Depends how drunk I am.

    What is this that thing where chi fighting only effects you if you believe in it?
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    themadvykingthemadvyking Posts: 79 Arc User
    well there is so much potential on game for the players hopeing to see more talk
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    Honestly what this game needs is a foundry. There is so much lore in the Champions Universe that players can use. Yes, we all know that some players will use it for stuff that its not to be intended for...but they have foundry's in STO in NW.I don't understand why there is not one for this game. (I guess it's a money thing, but dang, Champions is a PNP game hich pretty much was made for player built content)
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Honestly what this game needs is a foundry. There is so much lore in the Champions Universe that players can use. Yes, we all know that some players will use it for stuff that its not to be intended for...but they have foundry's in STO in NW.I don't understand why there is not one for this game. (I guess it's a money thing, but dang, Champions is a PNP game hich pretty much was made for player built content)

    It would be a massive update, as the game was not built with Foundry in mind, and, well, the history of user-generated content in MMOs (and, earlier, MUDs) is that, without a great deal of time consuming vetting, you get farms, not quality content.
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    wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 679 Arc User
    The odds of actual new content happening in CO are as likely as people stopping to make Batman clones in DCUO. Which won't happen.
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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Seems we won't get anything beyond Lockboxes and Events for the time being

    and boy those Events are keep coming and coming and they won't stop coming
    This feels quite overwhelming to be honest

    Quantity without substance
    I have been thinking this a lot every time I'm doing Cybermind and Mechanon story missions while leveling characters

    eh, at least we get power revamps and new cool (and some not so cool) costumes​​
    Post edited by avianos on
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    revanantmoriturirevanantmorituri Posts: 391 Arc User

    The odds of actual new content happening in CO are as likely as people stopping to make Batman clones in DCUO. Which won't happen.

    In all fairness to the DCUO players, "Batman Clone" is a stock costume right out of the character creator...
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    bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User

    Honestly what this game needs is a foundry. There is so much lore in the Champions Universe that players can use. Yes, we all know that some players will use it for stuff that its not to be intended for...but they have foundry's in STO in NW.I don't understand why there is not one for this game. (I guess it's a money thing, but dang, Champions is a PNP game which pretty much was made for player built content)

    Appropriateness of the Foundry can be debated, but scope of lore could have been one of CO's greatest strengths. No supers setting outside the big two comics publishers is as broad or deep. And unlike Marvel and DC, Champions was designed for role playing with PCs as the main stars. The devs wouldn't even need to invent the stories -- every location, group, and NPC description in the books is laced with outlines and suggestions for plots and scenarios, not to mention numerous examples of character artwork, and often maps.

    The early content really tried to build on that. I have some issues with how it was executed, but give those developers props for at least making use of it.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    Haha, that sounds like the sort of thing that would keep Tacofangs busy for a month at least. But worth it! :D
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    themadvykingthemadvyking Posts: 79 Arc User
    Sinmple things can help the game.

    An idea I thought of is a simple thing.

    Whisper in Vibora Bay crypt has unfinished corridors to the desert, canada and monster island. complere the connectoin would help encourage the Whisper missions and a new way to go around the game with ports. a simple walkthroiugh
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    jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,435 Arc User
    How many people actually know about Whisper and the Unity 2 missions? If the Devs aren't going to be revisiting the much more accessible OV and Nemesis systems (let alone Unity 1), I doubt that Unity 2 will see any work.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    I'll be honest, I never bothered with Unity 1, let alone 2
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Unity 2 is annoying to unlock (multiple arcs in Vibora Bay), I unlocked it with something like 1 character and I've only run it a handful of times (I haven't run UNITY since the reward nerf).
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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    I haven't run neither Unity 1 nor 2 since the nerf neither
    They take too much time for the pathetic rewards, they simply DO NOT WORTH IT

    Which is really shame, Unity 1 had some really unique maps, especially the cardbox miniaturized town, I feel that map is a wasted potential where else do you see this map?​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    I don't get the Nem system being abandoned. People gushed over the nem system in Shadows of Morodor. Even the next Morodor game has the nem system. It's something people think is cool and is perfect for a game about creativity.

    It's not like the nem system wouldn't encourage sales in just buying costumes. Lockboxes are still feeding frenzies even without gear. I have no doubt people have zero issues buying costumes for their nems. Hell, tie nems to ATs. If you own an AT, you can put it on your nem.


    Sadly, I think CO went overboard into events so badly that people pretty much don't play when there isn't one. The new Mega D OM died instantly when the ASCII event came back. It wasn't touched again until Anniversary prizes were added and only until the other Mega D event came back. I don't think the Frog OM was ever paid any mind since an event wasn't tied to it.

    It's really not a stretch to bring some love to the nem system and introduce it with an event... And I'm sure a lockbox can be shoved in there too. As long as it doesn't ruin anything with idiotic implementation like the OVs and their accompanying lockbox.​​
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    theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,066 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    Vibora Bay in general feels a bit like a wasted opportunity.

    It has some great maps but often the amount of possible mission routes means you never really get to see most of them, not to mention how alerts have centralized almost everything in Millennium City (with the odd pop to Vibora Bay, never Canada or Desert...probably because those zones (Desert, Canada) lack some very basic facilities as well...like BANKS and AH.)

    In Vibora, the New Shadows Vampire missions have quite a few large maps which could "easily" be turned into hideout material or SG base material.

    I think CO should consider:

    - Adding a second tier of customization to the Nemesis System, allowing us to encounter and fight our nemesis' at Super Villain (skull tech) level at random points during our time in CO as well as adjusting their difficulty and updating their power sets. (Nemesis system still cannot access Heavy Weapons as a set.)

    - Adding some more generic costumes to the minions section if allowing us to create our own minions and have them spawn is problematic. (Perhaps create a community contest out of this?)

    - Consider an additional arena to Nemesis Confrontation before the boss fight, which simply pits a team of Nemesis' against the team of heroes for a final show down before facing the current Shadow Destroyer (complete with his new voice line).

    I get the feeling like certain powers in this game (looks at Energy Storm & Telekinesis (Power)) the coding and/or work behind the Nemesis system is simply too hefty for the current Development team to fully invest in, especially considering it would be difficult to monetize the Nemesis System (in it's current form). I guess they could have a horrific throwback to when Adventure Packs were pay to play, and unlockable for a certain amount of C Store points...perhaps unlocking an additional chain of missions for a price etc.

    I like to think they are trying to firstly fix/upgrade what players interact with the most so it suits their (the Developers) vision going forward, namely Powers.

    Once that is finalized, I'd imagine somewhere along the line, content can be designed more readily, but that's just a thought.
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    avianos said:

    Which is really shame, Unity 1 had some really unique maps, especially the cardbox miniaturized town, I feel that map is a wasted potential where else do you see this map?​​

    Nowhere; Cazulon vs Miniature Hero is the most distinctive thing Unity has, though none of the Unity special missions are really bad (the unity hotspots are generic warehouse/cave/sewer missions).
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    decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    sterga said:

    I don't get the Nem system being abandoned. People gushed over the nem system in Shadows of Morodor. Even the next Morodor game has the nem system. It's something people think is cool and is perfect for a game about creativity.



    It's not like the nem system wouldn't encourage sales in just buying costumes. Lockboxes are still feeding frenzies even without gear. I have no doubt people have zero issues buying costumes for their nems. Hell, tie nems to ATs. If you own an AT, you can put it on your nem.

    I've assumed the abandonment of the Nemesis system was less from a lack of desire than a lack of ability to fix early Cryptic spaghetti code without simply trashing it and starting over (which would be time/cost prohibitive). :(

    'Dec out

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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    The odds of actual new content happening in CO are as likely as people stopping to make Batman clones in DCUO. Which won't happen.

    Except we got actual new content... so now you have to go to DCUO and get people to stop making Batman clones.

    How many people actually know about Whisper and the Unity 2 missions? If the Devs aren't going to be revisiting the much more accessible OV and Nemesis systems (let alone Unity 1), I doubt that Unity 2 will see any work.

    A stated goal the devs have given is to make people go and experience the less used parts of the game. One example of this is how all the devices you can buy from the recog vendor require perks that you have to go to other zones to get. So, something being unknown to most people doesn't really disqualify it from seeing work in the future.
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    jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,435 Arc User
    I love VB. I know what you mean about not getting to see it all. If you get there at level 37 you get through about half the missions before you get to 40. On my current leveling project I decided that, except for a couple Adventure Packs, he was going to be a city guy. Only MC and VB, not Desert, Canada, MI or Lemuria. It's been kind of fun (though alerts as filler were a bit tedious, but double XP got through mission level dry spells quickly). I'm hoping that since I got to VB only at the beginning of level 35 that I'll do most of the missions this time around.

    Like many others, I would love to see the Nemesis system get some more attention. Personally, I'd love to have a Nemesis Rampage or Cosmic battle. However, the word from on high is that the Devs aren't going to be doing anything with it (though it hasn't been said why), so I just will continue to feel sad about it.

    Vibora Bay in general feels a bit like a wasted opportunity.

    It has some great maps but often the amount of possible mission routes means you never really get to see most of them, not to mention how alerts have centralized almost everything in Millennium City (with the odd pop to Vibora Bay, never Canada or Desert...probably because those zones (Desert, Canada) lack some very basic facilities as well...like BANKS and AH.)

    In Vibora, the New Shadows Vampire missions have quite a few large maps which could "easily" be turned into hideout material or SG base material.

    I think CO should consider:
    ....

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    wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 679 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    spinnytop said:

    The odds of actual new content happening in CO are as likely as people stopping to make Batman clones in DCUO. Which won't happen.

    Except we got actual new content... so now you have to go to DCUO and get people to stop making Batman clones.
    Lockboxes do not count.
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    Lockboxes do not count.

    You should do something other than opening lockboxes so you know what's actually happening in the game o3o
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    wrathsoul1wrathsoul1 Posts: 679 Arc User
    spinnytop said:

    Lockboxes do not count.

    You should do something other than opening lockboxes so you know what's actually happening in the game o3o
    Kinda hard when you did everything the game has to offer.
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    We need to drop the elitist approach.

    They'd need to pick it up first. I think you still don't know what that word means.
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Lately, any content has been overtuned elitist grindfests. The tryhards whine about 'you have casual content already" but the fact of the matter is, most of that 'casual' content is half a decade old at this point.

    The last (non-event) lower level content we got was Steel Crusade. It kept people's attention for a month or two, and is now a ghost town. The cosmics, by comparison, have kept people's attention for ... I forget, something like a year and a half?
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    championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User

    Lately, any content has been overtuned elitist grindfests. The tryhards whine about 'you have casual content already" but the fact of the matter is, most of that 'casual' content is half a decade old at this point.

    The last (non-event) lower level content we got was Steel Crusade. It kept people's attention for a month or two, and is now a ghost town. The cosmics, by comparison, have kept people's attention for ... I forget, something like a year and a half?
    Probably because games like these thrive on end game content, and social activity. Solo gaming experience doesn't work well in bottom lines for MMOs, because the experience can be finished fast, resulting in people just stopping play after boredom kicks in.
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Take Joe Average Gamer, give him a level 40, merc gear and r5s, with whatever AT or build he's cobbledtogether. Throw him into the endgame, and you're telling me, straight face, the difficulty spike from even Rampages to TA or Cosmics is not patently absurd?

    Yes, the pre-endgame content is absurdly easy and should be buffed. TA and Cosmics are well within the capabilities of ATs using blues.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    when I first started playing CO, I got curbstomped by ALERTS! Why? because I didn't know what I was doing.

    Grabbing a random guy who's never played this game... You could let him use one of Spinny's most insanely over the top DPS builds and he'd get creamed while fighting the Purple gang in a story mission. We all know what Spinny does in the same situation.
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    stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    I'd say the problem with end game content has more to do with poor design and engine issues. End game content tends to be kinda boring / annoying and power sets have more issues with becoming generic than nerfed. Poorly designed content is why certain things are frowned upon at cosmics. It's less about being difficult and more about tolerating fussy BS.

    This game is never going to have balance. Getting a hilariously OP toon is just as easy as screwing up a toon into a broken pile of poo. And the power difference between the two is massive.

    Nemesis dance off sounds way cooler than another bloated boss with block or die wireframes. I don't want to see content "buffed". The last enemies that were buffed ended up being extremely annoying with more freaking cc / knock spam. Almost every mob type has knock spam for days now. The Mega D upgrade was to give it an attack you need to die to figure out and a bunch of stuff to block. Maybe this game is just too gimpy for something more interesting but "buffing" hasn't lead to anything fun so far.​​
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    when I first started playing CO, I got curbstomped by ALERTS! Why? because I didn't know what I was doing.

    CO's difficulty scaling has been off for years, and alerts are a prime example. Ordinary video game scaling would have difficulty increase as your level goes up, but if you go into an alert at level 11 you'll be struggling a lot, go in at level 35 and you shouldn't have any issues.
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    lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User


    Trying to fully-focus on it here only serves to destroy what made this game unique once upon a time.

    What makes this game unique compared to other games is the degree of character customization it has.

    It never stood out for it's revolutionary combat or quest system, nor for it's deep and complex lore and story telling. In both those departments it's pretty cookie cutter, so I don't follow what point you are trying to make with this statement.


    WoW and other, better-functioning games have the tryhard niche covered.

    I can use the same hyperbole logic and say that Hello Kitty Online has the casual niche covered and thus the devs should refrain from including casual content.
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    pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    ZOMG wasn't this thread dead for like a month? And now I have like 25 notifications on it!
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Except you'd be ignoring all the evidence of the pre-downfall game as it existed, and thus would be found fallacious.

    Pre-downfall being what? Some mythical period when CO was super-popular?
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    decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    I don't understand the complaint. That game you wish for is still there, more or less. It's just had an endgame (that you don't like) tacked on. It's not like the period you mention wasn't more or less in a holding pattern the whole time, with little dribs of content coming along occasionally. I haven't even tried the endgame content yet, but I'm glad they did it. And from what I've read up, most of the complaints about its difficulty sound like nonsense.
    'Dec out

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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User

    You can keep kissing that all you like, Spinny, but It's never turning into a prince.

    o3o ..okay...I don't think that's an actual concern but...sure.

    Take Joe Average Gamer, give him a level 40, merc gear and r5s, with whatever AT or build he's cobbledtogether. Throw him into the endgame, and you're telling me, straight face, the difficulty spike from even Rampages to TA or Cosmics is not patently absurd?

    It's really not. I've seen Joe Average Gamer jump into the end game, and they... well let's be honest here, it's patently dishonest to speak about players as if they're all the same person so I'm just not gonna do that; Joe Average Gamer doesn't exist, he's a mythical character drummed up by folks such as yourself to serve as a mascot for "this is too hard" arguments. There is no "average player", stop referencing fairy tales.

    Yeah, some people have a hissy fit and rage quit - just like any game. Some people join it and say "eh not my thing" and don't show up again. Many people adapt and move forward from what I've seen, some faster than others. I've seen players go from "what is even going on?" to top end players in the span of a week. That's because while there is a gap in the curve, it's not a very long gap - the majority of endgame content isn't actually very difficult and just because a few people go "what do you mean I have to block sometimes!? MOVING!? F--- THIS!" doesn't mean the content is bad, it just means some folks are doin' what they usually do: blame the system for their failure.

    Btw these are things I see because I actually play the content. As you've shown, theorycrafting about what's actually going on doesn't give very credible information.



    If the endgame were more than ridiculously overtuned mobs, a stupidly-long grind, and elitism, it'd thrive more. Same reason PvP died, in the end. Do you see an appreciable number of new faces at the cosmic fights?

    Yes actually. Sometimes some of us big evil elitists jokingly say we wish they would trickle in slower so they don't disrupt cosmics being on farm status ;)


    I saw Shewolf lamenting that Regen is no longer good enough. It joins the increasing pile of powers cut from viability. Because hey, what is elitism but 'you're/that's not good enough?'

    Actually that pile of powers is decreasing. The pile of powers gaining viability is the one that's been increasing. Sure, you pointed out 1 power that's lost some viability at cosmics ( not TA though ). You took the right route btw, it takes much much less time to make a list of the powers losing viability than it does to list all the powers that have gained viability. You're way off the mark with this claim.


    Time to focus resources, such as they are, on more approachable content. Repeatable content like the Cosmics or TA, but without the absurd frustration factor, restrictions of build viability, and high barrier to enjoyment.

    The content is approachable. We prove it every day. You should come join us ;)
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    eva1988eva1988 Posts: 183 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    A foundry seems like the best solution for this game.

    The game has survived as long as it has because of it's customization and creative freedom, expanding that further would only be giving people what they come here for in the first place. Infact, the only content that we seem to get on a steady basis is in the form of costume pieces and such; so the devs should already know that the money is made from capitalizing on customization and creativity.

    I'm going to be brutally honest about my opinion on the current PVE content : It is awful. Particularly alerts.. the first time you participate in them they're boring, and it only gets worse from repetition. And why are players putting themselves through this torture? To get to the rewards.

    Right now the content is just a means to an end; it isn't fun to play at all. I don't think anybody actually plays this content anymore because they enjoy it, or just for fun. That is the problem with the content; and it isn't a problem exclusive to champions online, but it is the same across most games in this genre; everything is just a means to an end. The fun is all stored in the moment you get that reward you've been after; but it is completely neglected when it comes to what you're doing to get that reward.

    The fun in participating in a mission should come from the story. The gameplay is fine, but the stories are just so stale; and it doesn't help that we've seen the stories so many times already. The last time i remember really enjoying PVE content on champions online was probably the adventure packs; but the problem with adventure packs, they get one shot and they're pretty much done. Once you know what is going to happen the story power is lost and it just becomes the same old grind.

    A foundry would solve this problem. Once you're bored of one story, there will always be another to move onto. It is endless content, and satisfies the problem with current PVE content. Not only that, it is another creative outlet aside from the costume creator. You could even introduce environment packs that let you construct different areas for the foundry missions to keep the game feeling fresh, and prevent the environments getting stale. Combine the foundry with worthwhile rewards and i think you'd resolve the issue with PVE on this game.
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    jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,435 Arc User
    Ain't going to happen. Been said many time. You'll either have to enjoy the game more or less as is or move on (or move on and then randomly drop in to the forums to complain bitterly).
    eva1988 said:

    A foundry seems like the best solution for this game.

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