Enrage form that scales with Dex?

chaosdrgnz43 · June 2017

Just an idea that crossed my mind while respec-ing.

Majority of melee dps use Focus forms because they like to stack dex for more crits. So what if there's an Enrage form that is similar to a focus form?

I'm sure there are those who want to use Enrage/AotB as their form, but feeling lackluster because they don't crit often.

Here's a little example:
----------------------
Indignation
----------------------
- Grants a stack of Enrage every time you deal a critical strike.
- Scales with Dex

Practically a reskin of FotT, but hey, reskin in this game isn't new.

pantagruel01 · June 2017

You can't have an enrage effect that scales with something other than strength -- the scaling is built into the status effect, just like dex scaling is built into the focus status effect.

chaosdrgnz43 · June 2017

pantagruel01 said:
You can't have an enrage effect that scales with something other than strength -- the scaling is built into the status effect, just like dex scaling is built into the focus status effect.

Pfft, if only there was some way to make Str(or Ego) on par with Dex. If only there was a work around it.

Unknown · June 2017

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roughbearmattach · June 2017

I'm against single-stat toons, myself.

aesica · June 2017

Don't worry, if Telekinesis was any indication of what to expect, Enrage will probably get partnered with Dex or Int or something.

pantagruel01 · June 2017

The dex-based version of aspect of the bestial is form of the swordsman. There's no form that scales off of knocks, but that would be weird to base on dex.

aesica · June 2017

pantagruel01 wrote: »

There's no form that scales off of knocks, but that would be weird to base on dex.

To be fair, it's no weirder than a form based on mental state changes that scale with dex.

championshewolf · June 2017

aesica said:

To be fair, it's no weirder than a form based on mental state changes that scale with dex.

If telekinesis was about mental acuity, that would be one thing, but it's about using constructs to hit things. I am amused by people acting shocked that it used focus, which actually makes sense, for a form designed around conjuring constructs as your weapons.

layene · June 2017

championshewolf said:

aesica said:

To be fair, it's no weirder than a form based on mental state changes that scale with dex.
If telekinesis was about mental acuity, that would be one thing, but it's about using constructs to hit things. I am amused by people acting shocked that it used focus, which actually makes sense, for a form designed around conjuring constructs as your weapons.

Exactly. The definition of dexterity is about both mental and physical skill. I'm really not sure what other people think dexterity is.

Mirriam Webster:
1: mental skill or quickness; adroitness
2: readiness and grace in physical activity; especially; skill and ease in using the hands manual dexterity

Macmillan:
1: great skill in using your hands or your mind

sterga · June 2017

A focus is a magic item, so no it doesn't make sense. Sorcery forms should be scaling with dex, but for some dumb reason scale with int.

You don't need much physical ability to wield a sword that weights nothing. Slight movements would be more than enough to do damage. Normal sword techniques would be pointless and require far more effort than would ever be needed.

layene · June 2017

Hand a toddler any lightweight object and let me know how dexterous they are with it =P

chaosdrgnz43 · June 2017

sterga said:
Sorcery forms should be scaling with dex, but for some dumb reason scale with int.

All magic users are known to be intelligent and/or have great mental capacity. So it's not really surprising that the Sorcery forms scale with Int.

Also, how the heck did a topic about a Dex-scaling Enrage suggestion turn into other forms? I just wanted to suggest something that will benefit Enrage DPS users.

avianos · June 2017

sterga wrote: »

A focus is a magic item, so no it doesn't make sense. Sorcery forms should be scaling with dex, but for some dumb reason scale with int.

. . . WHAT?

sterga wrote: »

but for some dumb reason scale with int.

Intelligence is universal the Stat of Spellcasters
Dated back from D&D

There is nothing dumb with the Spellcaster toggle scaling with INT

criswolf09 · June 2017

What about a form that procs with Furious and grants Enrage, scaling with Str? I have a feeling that when Might gets an update we could possible see this.

chaosdrgnz43 · June 2017

criswolf09 said:
What about a form that procs with Furious and grants Enrage, scaling with Str? I have a feeling that when Might gets an update we could possible see this.

I'd like to see that if Str actually mattered for major dps. Dex is the go-to stat for high dps.

championshewolf · June 2017

sterga said:
A focus is a magic item, so no it doesn't make sense. Sorcery forms should be scaling with dex, but for some dumb reason scale with int.

You don't need much physical ability to wield a sword that weights nothing. Slight movements would be more than enough to do damage. Normal sword techniques would be pointless and require far more effort than would ever be needed.

A focus is anything that lets you concentrate. I know it has been appropriated by the idea of spell weaving and magic, but people use a foci to help them concentrate all the time, even for mundane things. So no, a focus is not just for magic. Hell, psychic charlatans have been using foci for decades with the new wave stuff. What do you think the crystals and such are for.

Unknown · June 2017

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avianos · June 2017

gradii wrote: »

Sterga is most likely being sarcastic.

I thought she may have been Sarcastic but nowdays I cannot say where someone is using sarcasm or not in those forums

myself included

aesica · June 2017

championshewolf wrote: »

If telekinesis was about mental acuity, that would be one thing, but it's about using constructs to hit things. I am amused by people acting shocked that it used focus, which actually makes sense, for a form designed around conjuring constructs as your weapons.

Stephen Hawking may be paralyzed, but his mind is still extremely sharp. If he had telekinetic powers, would he really need to wave his hands all over the place to use them on you, or could he just glare at you as things levitated off nearby shelves or materialized in midair to be hurled at you seconds later?

Meanwhile, Laser Swords require intelligence to use. Doesn't matter if you're the scrawniest kid in gym class or if you have the dexterity of a baked potato--if you've got smarts, you're deadly with one. Yet, I can't see Stephen Hawking wielding one very well.

sterga · June 2017

gradii wrote: »

Sterga is most likely being sarcastic.

*claps* You win.

Incidentally, a Laser Sword has zero weight in the blade. The hilt would probably be all of a pound. Tap someone with a burning hot blade of death and you cause serious injury. No real effort required. It also doesn't require much intelligence to use a laser sword. Building it, sure, but using Int is due to it being in the Gadget tree. Kinda like how TK blades are in the tree associated with Ego, a part of the mind.

Last I checked, a toddler can normally still move. They'd probably hurt themselves though, being it is incredibly easy to do damage with a zero weight sword. Considering it's a sword made with the power of the mind, could you even drop it? It's not a physical item.

aesica · June 2017

sterga wrote: »

Considering it's a sword made with the power of the mind, could you even drop it? It's not a physical item.

Correct. In theory, the only way to move it is with your mind, which makes sense when you watch Ego Blade Pandemonium in action. For those who haven't seen it, it's a bunch of ego blades swirling around you, and you don't even need your nimble, dexterous hands to wield them!

And yet, some people will still argue tooth and nail that Dex makes more sense for the set than any of the stats themed around mental prowess.

layene · June 2017

Ego= self esteem, concept of self, self in contrast to the outside world
Dexterity= nimbleness of mind and/or body, grace, precision

Yup, Dex makes no sense for wielding mental constructs in battle. ^_~

rtma · June 2017

chaosdrgnz43 said:
I'd like to see that if Str actually mattered for major dps. Dex is the go-to stat for high dps.

Raise the Soft Cap or get rid of it, their you go, potentially massive base damage increase.

themightyzenith · June 2017

layene said:

Exactly. The definition of dexterity is about both mental and physical skill. I'm really not sure what other people think dexterity is.

Mirriam Webster:
1: mental skill or quickness; adroitness
2: readiness and grace in physical activity; especially; skill and ease in using the hands manual dexterity

Macmillan:
1: great skill in using your hands or your mind

In the Champions PnP, which this game is based on, Dexterity is an entirely physical stat. If you want to use dictionary definitions for an MMO then maybe you could quote me the one that says telekinesis is all about psionic sword constructs.

Definition of telekinesis

1)Mirriam Webster: the production of motion in objects (as by a spiritualistic medium) without contact or other physical means.

2)Macmillan:the power to move or change the shape of objects using your mind

I don't have a problem with CO putting psionic sword construct in the game and calling them telekinesis, but let's not pretend that dictionary definitions work for an MMO or an RPG....

Definition of Strength(Dictionary.com)

Dictionary.com

1.the quality or state of being strong; bodily or muscular power; vigor.

2.mental power, force, or vigor.

If we go by dictionary definitions then we can easily justify using Strength instead of Ego or Dex.

All that to say that it is folly to use literal dictionary definitions for stats and powers in an MMO

spinnytop · June 2017

layene said:
Ego= self esteem, concept of self, self in contrast to the outside world
Dexterity= nimbleness of mind and/or body, grace, precision

Yup, Dex makes no sense for wielding mental constructs in battle. ^_~

Glad to see some people still have imagination and abstract thinking ability. You would think that would be the norm in a game with stats like "Ego" and "Presence", but no even here some people are painfully literal in their interpretations.

darqaura2 · June 2017

spinnytop said:

layene said:
Ego= self esteem, concept of self, self in contrast to the outside world
Dexterity= nimbleness of mind and/or body, grace, precision

Yup, Dex makes no sense for wielding mental constructs in battle. ^_~
Glad to see some people still have imagination and abstract thinking ability. You would think that would be the norm in a game with stats like "Ego" and "Presence", but no even here some people are painfully literal in their interpretations.

I think it's open to interpretation. The problem is since the game's inception they've somehow linked Ego to telepathic/telekinetic superpowers. That might have been an early mistake. The first thing I think of whenever I see telepathic or telekinetic powers used is EGO.

Also in the combat log doesn't it also say you dealt Ego damage? (And there is a perk for that?)

EDIT: with that said I'm fine with DEX being used for what it is for the revamp. Back in the day Ego/Dex used to be paired together often.

spinnytop · June 2017

darqaura2 said:
I think it's open to interpretation. The problem is since the game's inception they've somehow linked Ego to telepathic/telekinetic superpowers. That might have been an early mistake. The first thing I think of whenever I see telepathic or telekinetic powers used is EGO.

Also in the combat log doesn't it also say you dealt Ego damage? (And there is a perk for that?)

EDIT: with that said I'm fine with DEX being used for what it is for the revamp. Back in the day Ego/Dex used to be paired together often.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff with the word Ego on it that was grouped together. Can't really blame people for thinking they're inexorably linked, though it is funny how difficult a time some are having with letting it go. After all, it's not like we're shooting guns with the power of our minds.

pantagruel01 · June 2017

spinnytop said:
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff with the word Ego on it that was grouped together. Can't really blame people for thinking they're inexorably linked, though it is funny how difficult a time some are having with letting it go. After all, it's not like we're shooting guns with the power of our minds.

My poor brainscrambler pistols ;(

kamokami · June 2017

chaosdrgnz43 said:
Just an idea that crossed my mind while respec-ing.

Majority of melee dps use Focus forms because they like to stack dex for more crits. So what if there's an Enrage form that is similar to a focus form?

I'm sure there are those who want to use Enrage/AotB as their form, but feeling lackluster because they don't crit often.

Here's a little example:
----------------------
Indignation
----------------------
- Grants a stack of Enrage every time you deal a critical strike.
- Scales with Dex

Practically a reskin of FotT, but hey, reskin in this game isn't new.

EGO used to innately buff severity a long time ago, but right now DEX is the only stat with an innate direct buff to damage. So then all buffs, not just Enrage, from all toggles would need to be made to scale off of DEX.

Regarding balancing it vs other stats, it's more likely that either DEX will get nerfed or EGO and STR will be given innate damage buffs and energy stats will be given a reason to exist - either by making powers more costly or by nerfing cost discount gear / EUs.

ericrightshow82 · June 2017

Actually, I think Enrage could/should bundle up with Ego along with strength for ranged knocks. Maybe when Force gets that much needed revamp...

pantagruel01 · June 2017

ericrightshow82 said:
Actually, I think Enrage could/should bundle up with Ego along with strength for ranged knocks. Maybe when Force gets that much needed revamp...

That would be concentration, not enrage. A concentration-like effect that procs on ranged knocks is not a ridiculous idea (to maximize the stupidity, have it add knock strength as well as damage).

ericrightshow82 · June 2017

pantagruel01 said:

ericrightshow82 said:
Actually, I think Enrage could/should bundle up with Ego along with strength for ranged knocks. Maybe when Force gets that much needed revamp...
That would be concentration, not enrage. A concentration-like effect that procs on ranged knocks is not a ridiculous idea (to maximize the stupidity, have it add knock strength as well as damage).

That's what I meant, thank you.

Unknown · June 2017

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chaosdrgnz43 · June 2017

kamokami said:

EGO used to innately buff severity a long time ago, but right now DEX is the only stat with an innate direct buff to damage. So then all buffs, not just Enrage, from all toggles would need to be made to scale off of DEX.

Regarding balancing it vs other stats, it's more likely that either DEX will get nerfed or EGO and STR will be given innate damage buffs and energy stats will be given a reason to exist - either by making powers more costly or by nerfing cost discount gear / EUs.

STR getting a buff. That'll be the day. Though I do agree that END/REC need to be buffed more. Those stats are the most unwanted.

Unknown · June 2017

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sterga · June 2017

Ego PSS still gives good crit chance and severity, so that didn't change. Dex PSS is kinda 'meh' in comparison. No Force of Will, no cost discount, no aggression, but hey we got a bit of damage pen and chance / severity... Oh, and that dodge stuff. Even Str PSS gives crit chance and severity in addition to cost discount, health, flat defense, and aggression. Investing into your PSS more than your secondary stats also gives a better damage bonus. Plus Str / Ego buffs melee / ranged damage innately. On top of that, it's not exactly hard to get decent crit chance with 10 dex even without the specs from str / ego.

Every other melee set has several valid options to build with. TK melee got shafted in that there is no form that scales off of ego for melee without taking a damage penalty. (Let's not pretend AotM isn't a down grade with less potential damage and no energy gain.) I can make a Brick build with str just as easily as I can go dex and get full benefit from my form. Even MA, Laser Swords, and Bullet Beatdown can go either dex or str just fine. But TK blades? Nope.

We can sit here and use definitions to prove any point we want, but TK blades still lost its ego scaling form with no decent replacement option unlike all other melee.

aesica · June 2017

chaosdrgnz43 wrote: »

STR getting a buff. That'll be the day. Though I do agree that END/REC need to be buffed more. Those stats are the most unwanted.

Buffed as in merged together (perhaps even along with Int) for a single energy stat instead of like 3.

chaosdrgnz43 · June 2017

aesica said:

Buffed as in merged together (perhaps even along with Int) for a single energy stat instead of like 3.

I doubt devs will make that happen. If they will combine them into a single stat, then there will be a whole lot of recoding. Which most likely cause unexpected bugs and/or glitches.

I also don't think that devs are getting paid enough to deal with such things.

Enrage form that scales with Dex?

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