the biggest problem they and the others have is, the Honeymoon period to be a replacement is well and truly over. People have remembered what they didn't like about ht e original and gone on to find other things
the biggest problem they and the others have is, the Honeymoon period to be a replacement is well and truly over. People have remembered what they didn't like about ht e original and gone on to find other things
This is very true. However, there is still going to be a group of people in either extreme denial or have super thick nostalgia glasses on, and claim that CoH had no issues. I've literally ran into former people who played CoH, and who legitimately believe this, that CoH had more subscribers than even WoW and have even convinced themselves that the game play of CoH was superior to games like WoW in every way.
It baffles me at times what people can convince themselves to believe despite the evidence and actual facts that are available.
I thought that COH had better gameplay than WoW...
WoW has horrible gameplay IMO. COH was only bad.
I would have to disagree there, since CoH relied on a series of powers to do anything. It was a set pattern 1 to 5 on average and turning on a whole bunch of buff powers. Add into that that every single power rooted you for a determined amount of time combat was very much the quintessential idea of sitting there and trading damage that MMOs got known for. While with certain travel powers you could "trick" the system to give you some movement, that was more of an accepted exploit than anything and only worked with primarily super jump or acrobatics, not other TPs.
And then there was the waiting period of most powers. I think many people forget, especially in the pre 20 period (especially before stamina became an inherent power) combat usually consisted of push button and wait for the recharge. Since there was no auto attack, it was extremely tedious thing. And these were not small cool downs either. The powers system of CoH was designed more towards a player using a series of powers in a chain, and it was painfully obvious even in the early game. The only time this became tolerable was in the post 50 game and you've dumped several enhancements into a power to make them chain at a reasonable rate, and most builds it was not uncommon to see people constantly turning haste on. In fact, it almost became mandatory for most builds.
And then there was the waiting period of most powers. I think many people forget, especially in the pre 20 period (especially before stamina became an inherent power) combat usually consisted of push button and wait for the recharge. Since there was no auto attack, it was extremely tedious thing. And these were not small cool downs either. The powers system of CoH was designed more towards a player using a series of powers in a chain, and it was painfully obvious even in the early game. The only time this became tolerable was in the post 50 game and you've dumped several enhancements into a power to make them chain at a reasonable rate, and most builds it was not uncommon to see people constantly turning haste on. In fact, it almost became mandatory for most builds.
That was one of my big gripes, when I tried it. I wanted someone who could throw lightning as an attack. I got someone who could fire off one pretty wimpy bolt, about as powerful as a Tempest's EB, and then was reduced to punching bad guys while the zap went on cooldown. Sure, maybe if I'd held out long enough I could have actually felt like a superhero - but why would I want to grind through twenty levels before my powers became useful? That would be like starting a Call of Duty game armed only with my trusty Red Ryder BB Rifle (with a compass in the stock and a thing that tells the time!), and told I could get an actual M-4 when I made officer.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I thought that COH had better gameplay than WoW...
WoW has horrible gameplay IMO. COH was only bad.
I would have to disagree there, since CoH relied on a series of powers to do anything. It was a set pattern 1 to 5 on average and turning on a whole bunch of buff powers. Add into that that every single power rooted you for a determined amount of time combat was very much the quintessential idea of sitting there and trading damage that MMOs got known for. While with certain travel powers you could "trick" the system to give you some movement, that was more of an accepted exploit than anything and only worked with primarily super jump or acrobatics, not other TPs.
And then there was the waiting period of most powers. I think many people forget, especially in the pre 20 period (especially before stamina became an inherent power) combat usually consisted of push button and wait for the recharge. Since there was no auto attack, it was extremely tedious thing. And these were not small cool downs either. The powers system of CoH was designed more towards a player using a series of powers in a chain, and it was painfully obvious even in the early game. The only time this became tolerable was in the post 50 game and you've dumped several enhancements into a power to make them chain at a reasonable rate, and most builds it was not uncommon to see people constantly turning haste on. In fact, it almost became mandatory for most builds.
And noooow, I remember why I left CoH. This on top of the fact that you got XP debt. CO was such a breath of fresh air. ;~; Granted, I never got very far on any of my characters, but that's a minor tangent....
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
That was one of my big gripes, when I tried it. I wanted someone who could throw lightning as an attack. I got someone who could fire off one pretty wimpy bolt, about as powerful as a Tempest's EB, and then was reduced to punching bad guys while the zap went on cooldown. Sure, maybe if I'd held out long enough I could have actually felt like a superhero - but why would I want to grind through twenty levels before my powers became useful? That would be like starting a Call of Duty game armed only with my trusty Red Ryder BB Rifle (with a compass in the stock and a thing that tells the time!), and told I could get an actual M-4 when I made officer.
That was my experience, more or less, when I tried CoH. I played for about 10 levels on two characters, and felt it was such a slog, most not using my powers, and running everywhere. I tried Champs shortly after and got hooked, but only after also spending time with Dungeons and Dragons Online (by Turbine). I also spent a couple months away from Champs to give DCUO a shot, and while I liked the more rapid-fire combat system, the DC setting, and the travel powers, I ultimately gave up. I played three characters to level 30, and began doing some of the "real" content. But I was unsatisfied with character customization (everyone was so samey) and power selections.
Champions Online has a realm of freedom when choosing your powers that really cant be matched. Though at the same time, there is very little synergy outside your selected power tree...IE if you choose fire....there is no synergy with ice, force, single blade whatever. But you can choose to build your fire character tanky, dodgy, or as a glass cannon.
To see another game made like this............I don't see it happening which is a shame.
Champions Online has a realm of freedom when choosing your powers that really cant be matched. Though at the same time, there is very little synergy outside your selected power tree...IE if you choose fire....there is no synergy with ice, force, single blade whatever. But you can choose to build your fire character tanky, dodgy, or as a glass cannon.
To see another game made like this............I don't see it happening which is a shame.
Ice/can be combined to pretty nifty Rimefire build, and some other trees can actually combine quite well, too. There are definitely some groups of powers that don't play well with others, but many really do.
Ice/can be combined to pretty nifty Rimefire build, and some other trees can actually combine quite well, too. There are definitely some groups of powers that don't play well with others, but many really do.
I concur. Some may need more attention with the mechanics, particularly the buffs/debuffs. Might really only needs knocks (knockback, knockdown, knockup) of which there are several options and effects that exploit disorient or stagger (also some options in other powersets), for instance. Fire works well enough with some Earth and Heavy Weapons. I think the only real advantage CoH had in this regard is it was easier.
When this thread was created, SoH had what amounted to clip art as their costume creator. Now they have a video. Any comments?
The only comment I can give based on that video and the current details they've posted (Archetypes, powersets, Apotheosis City, etc.) is "good luck once NCSoft files a suit to protect its IP".
The only comment I can give based on that video and the current details they've posted (Archetypes, powersets, Apotheosis City, etc.) is "good luck once NCSoft files a suit to protect its IP".
Even the title font is a direct swipe.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
What a mess. Needs a UI overhaul for the character creator already. I don't understand why they seem so hellbent on ripping off CoH, a game that was shut down for not making enough money.
This game would be a lot cooler if it kept that neat cell shaded look and was a MODERN superhero game, not just a CoH legal issue in the making.
This game would be a lot cooler if it kept that neat cell shaded look and was a MODERN superhero game, not just a CoH legal issue in the making.
According to the blog, they're using Unreal Engine assets, free and purchased and tweaked them. I figure that limits their choices since they don't have their own proprietary assets.
i love that under *About us* Why there needs to be a Ship of Heroes game, the first line says this, " Ship of Heroes needs to exist for many reasons. For those of us who still mourn the closing of City of Heroes, we need a home."
i love that under *About us* Why there needs to be a Ship of Heroes game, the first line says this, " Ship of Heroes needs to exist for many reasons. For those of us who still mourn the closing of City of Heroes, we need a home."
good lord...
Yeah. It's for those people who will not try anything if it's not literally CoH with just a fresh coat of paint.
My face is in my hands. That's exactly what it is. If only they understood that they need to make something modern with the spirit of CoH intact, not only would they have a better game but they'd have something to bring in modern crowds. Oh well.
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
My face is in my hands. That's exactly what it is. If only they understood that they need to make something modern with the spirit of CoH intact, not only would they have a better game but they'd have something to bring in modern crowds. Oh well.
This is exactly why I roll my eyes at each of these "fan" projects; because they don't want to make something modern. They want to make what they view as the glory days of their game, and since everyone has a different view of when their favorite game was best, you know how that **** can roll now. Hell, you can look at the WoW community and see how that turns out, since you got huge portions that argue over when WoW was at its best, such as Vanilla, Burning Crusade or Lich King era, and not one can agree on it.
I can understand paying tribute or homage to the past games, I would do that myself for sure. But CoH players are dead set in their fantasy world and believe that the only thing that mattered was CoH. Hell, many of them believe that CoH pioneered many of the common tropes and functionalities of the modern MMO, which just simply isn't true because there were games that did come before it that tried some of the things that CoH did. I think the only credit I would give CoH for, is ushering in the lobby style gameplay, that I think has helped speed up the decline of MMOs as they currently are as the idea of the MMO pushed away from its roots into the glorified single player experience that we have now.
I do miss the Rogue Isles at times, that much is certain, but there is a huge difference between paying homage and respect to the games that came before and just plain ripping off at this point.
Examples of Homages; Naming a spot after another aspect of your favorite game, like say a pair of towers calling them Paragon Towers, or Millennial Park, or Metropolitan Gazette, or the Marcus Cole Library, etc etc etc. What they are doing is just plain ripping off at this point because they want to relive their glory days.
Also in another pointing this out, uhh, what cell shading?
Some of the screenshots look like cell shading. A1 pointed it out on the first page. That game would at least look more interesting than whole trying to make realistic graphics only to realize they look like crap in a few years.
The name is awful I agree, the art work they are going for is cell shades?
Looks like just 2D artwork photoshopped into the images. Not that they won't have cel shade graphics for the characters inevitably, but if they are using Unity free and paid assets, that's probably unlikely as they would have a LOT of work to adjust the render engine.
One thing is for sure. Reading this thread has made me glad that my computer at the time couldn't run city of heroes when I tried to play it way back then. I ended up playing everquest instead u3u
I personally hope that they all do well if/when released. More competition in the genre is a good thing.
I'm glad it seems like the devs for VO and CoT are taking their time and taking the developing the game seriously. It took Blizzard 5 years to make WoW. Far too often companies make the same mistake of rushing their games out before they're finished/ready.
I personally hope that they all do well if/when released. More competition in the genre is a good thing.
I'm glad it seems like the devs for VO and CoT are taking their time and taking the developing the game seriously. It took Blizzard 5 years to make WoW. Far too often companies make the same mistake of rushing their games out before they're finished/ready.
I don't think they are taking their time by choice in this matter since in both cases they promised launch dates multiple times they failed to meet. So, in short, going by the tech demo work and rather poor use of their respective engines, they are far over their heads basically.
I don't think they are taking their time by choice in this matter since in both cases they promised launch dates multiple times they failed to meet. So, in short, going by the tech demo work and rather poor use of their respective engines, they are far over their heads basically.
True that.
On that note, comparing the current situation with how larger companies which have the luxury of resources and time isn't really convincing. Let's be honest here: VO barely has $13,000 backing. That would barely be enough for an indie game for mobiles, never mind an MMO. On the other end, CoT has had $600,000+ since 2014. And yet, in nearly 3 years there's very little to show and what little they do show is hardly noteworthy. Ship of Heroes, again based on the details, is going to have a heckuva time with the legalese with NCSoft's IP unless they make sweeping changes before they go any further.
Bottomline is: we hope they succeed, but curb your expectations. In the meantime, let's support and help improve WHAT WE DO HAVE.
pause at 6:00.... why is there a "Security level" stat?
It's probably the "Character Level". City of Heroes also had Security Levels for heroes (Villains had Threat levels) for determining whether the character can join in on missions, zones, and such.
What is impressive is how the character creation looks in this state and they even have a release for alpha.
They have not done their KS yet
"Impressive" for using existing Unreal engine assets and using CoH proprietary mechanics is not the adjective I'd use. But if you think it's appropriate and makes you happy, keep waving that flag.
What is impressive is how the character creation looks in this state and they even have a release for alpha.
They have not done their KS yet
"Impressive" for using existing Unreal engine assets and using CoH proprietary mechanics is not the adjective I'd use. But if you think it's appropriate and makes you happy, keep waving that flag.
Well, if your standard is CoT or VO, basic technical competence is impressive. I do get the impression that the SoH people have some idea of how to develop software, which was distinctly absent from prior attempts.
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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It baffles me at times what people can convince themselves to believe despite the evidence and actual facts that are available.
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WoW has horrible gameplay IMO. COH was only bad.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
And then there was the waiting period of most powers. I think many people forget, especially in the pre 20 period (especially before stamina became an inherent power) combat usually consisted of push button and wait for the recharge. Since there was no auto attack, it was extremely tedious thing. And these were not small cool downs either. The powers system of CoH was designed more towards a player using a series of powers in a chain, and it was painfully obvious even in the early game. The only time this became tolerable was in the post 50 game and you've dumped several enhancements into a power to make them chain at a reasonable rate, and most builds it was not uncommon to see people constantly turning haste on. In fact, it almost became mandatory for most builds.
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Well... the super hero mmo market does seem to attract nutjobs who have a tendency towards "personal realities"... as evidenced by ours.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
To see another game made like this............I don't see it happening which is a shame.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Still, there's always room for more and better.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
When this thread was created, SoH had what amounted to clip art as their costume creator. Now they have a video. Any comments?
I'm not holding out for it, but consider me intrigued.
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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This game would be a lot cooler if it kept that neat cell shaded look and was a MODERN superhero game, not just a CoH legal issue in the making.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
good lord...
I say stuff and I say things, sometimes together but only when I'm feeling adventurous.
I'm @blu8 in game!
I can understand paying tribute or homage to the past games, I would do that myself for sure. But CoH players are dead set in their fantasy world and believe that the only thing that mattered was CoH. Hell, many of them believe that CoH pioneered many of the common tropes and functionalities of the modern MMO, which just simply isn't true because there were games that did come before it that tried some of the things that CoH did. I think the only credit I would give CoH for, is ushering in the lobby style gameplay, that I think has helped speed up the decline of MMOs as they currently are as the idea of the MMO pushed away from its roots into the glorified single player experience that we have now.
I do miss the Rogue Isles at times, that much is certain, but there is a huge difference between paying homage and respect to the games that came before and just plain ripping off at this point.
Examples of Homages; Naming a spot after another aspect of your favorite game, like say a pair of towers calling them Paragon Towers, or Millennial Park, or Metropolitan Gazette, or the Marcus Cole Library, etc etc etc. What they are doing is just plain ripping off at this point because they want to relive their glory days.
Also in another pointing this out, uhh, what cell shading?
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I'm glad it seems like the devs for VO and CoT are taking their time and taking the developing the game seriously. It took Blizzard 5 years to make WoW. Far too often companies make the same mistake of rushing their games out before they're finished/ready.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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On that note, comparing the current situation with how larger companies which have the luxury of resources and time isn't really convincing. Let's be honest here: VO barely has $13,000 backing. That would barely be enough for an indie game for mobiles, never mind an MMO. On the other end, CoT has had $600,000+ since 2014. And yet, in nearly 3 years there's very little to show and what little they do show is hardly noteworthy. Ship of Heroes, again based on the details, is going to have a heckuva time with the legalese with NCSoft's IP unless they make sweeping changes before they go any further.
Bottomline is: we hope they succeed, but curb your expectations. In the meantime, let's support and help improve WHAT WE DO HAVE.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Again, this is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained