Another "Successor" to CoH?

a1fighter · January 2017

http://www.pcgamesn.com/city-of-heroes/ship-of-heroes-announcement

https://www.shipofheroes.com/

Getting kind of silly now.

Like how every wrestler would come out during the 90s and say they will win the royal rumble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ZGGaIg08U

before anyone brings it up, yea, yea, yea, VO is trash and I was wrong, crow eats etc, etc, haha..

..Got that out of the way, thoughts on number 4 to the party? Could it be the darkhorse of horse -ish we have been getting from the other three?

spinnytop · January 2017

another dingleberry on my butt hair? who would have thought?!

GET THE COMB!

pantagruel01 · January 2017

The realistic answer is 'probably not', but that's the realistic answer for any alternative, because most new companies fail. On the other hand, they aren't asking for any money right now, and while the development team may be unrealistically small for the project they're trying to accomplish, they aren't total amateurs either.

themightyzenith · January 2017

So they're tring to combine a Star Trek setting with a superhero setting.

If this actually manages to become a game I'll eat a centaur........

....and a crow.

Unknown · January 2017

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Unknown · January 2017

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markhawkman · January 2017

It's built in Unreal Engine.... most of that stuff probably came from an asset library.

pantagruel01 · January 2017

markhawkman said:
It's built in Unreal Engine.... most of that stuff probably came from an asset library.

Being able to competently use an asset library is a step up already.

jennymachx · January 2017

If the overall look is appealing enough and the gameplay is engaging, I wouldn't care if the models and textures came from an asset library.

But it's far, far too early to get hyped. Also "Ship of Heroes"? Not sure that's such a great name.

Unknown · January 2017

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championshewolf · January 2017

jennymachx said:
If the overall look is appealing enough and the gameplay is engaging, I wouldn't care if the models and textures came from an asset library.

But it's far, far too early to get hyped. Also "Ship of Heroes"? Not sure that's such a great name.

Nothing to be hyped over. I rolled my eyes the minute they said unobtanium, that certainly has become the latest trope name for metals or fuels these days hasn't it. And that character creation screen is literally ripped from the CoH creator, so either that's just a mock up or I dunno. The fact the styling of their logo is city of heroes, I am already wary of this.

[EDIT]

Scratch that, they are literally copying CoH at this point just looking over the things on the site, with that whole idea of is it honestly a ship in space thing being the only difference?

jennymachx · January 2017

They had no problems admitting that the project is going to be a spiritual successor to CoX, so no surprise if visually and mechanically it's going to be very similar to CoX.

If it's well-applied, I couldn't be bothered. Countless games out there, good and bad, that are marketed to be successors / similarly-veined and not official sequels to a previous title tend to use similar aspects of what worked for the previous title. As long it works out for the end product I don't see a reason why such a practice is automatically assumed to be negative.

championshewolf · January 2017

jennymachx said:
They had no problems admitting that the project is going to be a spiritual successor to CoX, so no surprise if visually and mechanically it's going to be very similar to CoX.

If it's well-applied, I couldn't be bothered. Countless games out there, good and bad, that are marketed to be successors / similarly-veined and not official sequels to a previous title tend to use similar aspects of what worked for the previous title. As long it works out for the end product I don't see a reason why such a practice is automatically assumed to be negative.

It's a negative because they aren't going to try and expand and actually do something interesting or unique. If this is yet another group of fans just wanting to relive the old days, it will just be a bunch of stuff in an attempt to relive all the "glory" days with slightly renamed and slight appearance change in character. So instead of original material it will just be attempting to be that old material. It's no different than seeing the 8 billion Drizzt Do'Urden's in a fantasy game, or the 5 billion Wolverine's or Hulk cloens you run across, nothing original about it and in the end won't offer anything new for players. And with copying this blatant, I would be shocked if NCSoft doesn't say something.

championshewolf · January 2017

And to add another element, one thing that definitely worries me, when they say story in an MMO setting, that is the death knell of a game already. I don't care what your beliefs, but all the story driven MMOs have been short term disasters. The theme park element just isn't sustainable as it offers very little for the player base to invest into, and actually be involved with. I am always wary of any title that claims to be story driven, as that just means people will be tied to rails and have to do things that developers want them to do. Instead of being the heroes that the players want to be. In an MMO, the world is suppose to be a play ground for the players, maybe not a full sandbox but offering many of those elements. Story should be a frame at best, not a central part of the game play. Story told games are great in single player games, but horrible for MMOs if they even have a hope of lasting more than a few years.

jennymachx · January 2017

championshewolf said:
It's a negative because they aren't going to try and expand and actually do something interesting or unique. If this is yet another group of fans just wanting to relive the old days, it will just be a bunch of stuff in an attempt to relive all the "glory" days with slightly renamed and slight appearance change in character. So instead of original material it will just be attempting to be that old material. It's no different than seeing the 8 billion Drizzt Do'Urden's in a fantasy game, or the 5 billion Wolverine's or Hulk cloens you run across, nothing original about it and in the end won't offer anything new for players. And with copying this blatant, I would be shocked if NCSoft doesn't say something.

I don't see a problem with a certain theme of a game having the main purpose of reliving the "glory" days of a past successful game concept. It's along the same reasoning people have no problems playing HD remakes of older games they've already played in the past. It's the same old, but with an updated feeling to it to make things worth experiencing again.

The important difference and hook here too is that the game from glory days past is no longer playable in any way shape or form (no, the Icon does not count).

And unless they're blatantly referencing anything copyrighted in the CoX IP by using Atlas Park and Statesman for e.g., I doubt NCsoft will have a lot of legal leeway to pursue a lawsuit. There's a reason why the recent fanmade Pokemon and Metroid games got shut down by Nintendo, because the authors blatantly used trademarked names. There's also a reason why the guys behind Yooka-Laylee aren't getting sued by Microsoft who owns the Banjo-Kazooie IP.

blumoon8 · January 2017

Interesting. I don't know what to say other than that. lol.

Also, VO is considered a failure now? How come? Are... are we allowed to discuss it? :P

jennymachx · January 2017

blumoon8 said:
Also, VO is considered a failure now? How come? Are... are we allowed to discuss it? :P

championshewolf · January 2017

jennymachx said:

championshewolf said:
It's a negative because they aren't going to try and expand and actually do something interesting or unique. If this is yet another group of fans just wanting to relive the old days, it will just be a bunch of stuff in an attempt to relive all the "glory" days with slightly renamed and slight appearance change in character. So instead of original material it will just be attempting to be that old material. It's no different than seeing the 8 billion Drizzt Do'Urden's in a fantasy game, or the 5 billion Wolverine's or Hulk cloens you run across, nothing original about it and in the end won't offer anything new for players. And with copying this blatant, I would be shocked if NCSoft doesn't say something.
I don't see a problem with a certain theme of a game having the main purpose of reliving the "glory" days of a past successful game concept. It's along the same reasoning people have no problems playing HD remakes of older games they've already played in the past. It's the same old, but with an updated feeling to it to make things worth experiencing again.

The important difference and hook here too is that the game from glory days past is no longer playable in any way shape or form (no, the Icon does not count).

And unless they're blatantly referencing anything copyrighted in the CoX IP by using Atlas Park and Statesman for e.g., I doubt NCsoft will have a lot of legal leeway to pursue a lawsuit. There's a reason why the recent fanmade Pokemon and Metroid games got shut down by Nintendo, because the authors blatantly used trademarked names. There's also a reason why the guys behind Yooka-Laylee aren't getting sued by Microsoft who owns the Banjo-Kazooie IP.

Probably because Yooka Laylee isn't blatantly ripping off the game. They've literally got the exact character screen mock up from CoH in one of their screenshots. That's not a good thing. Furthermore, it is a bad thing trying to relive glory days especially in an environment where they are claiming to put story first. Story first in an MMO is a very bad thing. It's the thing most MMOs that have failed now, in the eyes of the public, have in common; they were all these supposed story driven experiences. And personally, making another CoH game is going to put another nail and extend the time to seeing an actually good super hero MMO out even further. What's next on this list, a year later we get Ship of Villains with Captain recluse in control on the ship named Etoile but lovingly called the Rogue Ship, and isolated from the Hero ship except for special locations that world "PvP" happens from time to time?

There is a difference between homage and blatant ripping off. This crosses that line quite handily, versus Yooka Laylee not.

championshewolf · January 2017

Oh and Apotheosis is another name for Paragon.

jennymachx · January 2017

championshewolf said:
Probably because Yooka Laylee isn't blatantly ripping off the game. They've literally got the exact character screen mock up from CoH in one of their screenshots. That's not a good thing. Furthermore, it is a bad thing trying to relive glory days especially in an environment where they are claiming to put story first. Story first in an MMO is a very bad thing. It's the thing most MMOs that have failed now, in the eyes of the public, have in common; they were all these supposed story driven experiences. And personally, making another CoH game is going to put another nail and extend the time to seeing an actually good super hero MMO out even further. What's next on this list, a year later we get Ship of Villains with Captain recluse in control on the ship named Etoile but lovingly called the Rogue Ship, and isolated from the Hero ship except for special locations that world "PvP" happens from time to time?

There is a difference between homage and blatant ripping off. This crosses that line quite handily, versus Yooka Laylee not.

I don't see anything to indicate that they're "ripping" off CoX when it comes to visual styles. It can be easily counter-argued that what they're doing is a homage.

I brought up Yooka-Laylee because it's very similar to what Banjo-Kazooie represents on a thematic level, visual and mechanics wise. You have two cartoon characters where one that flies grab onto the other that cannot, like in Banjo-Kazooie. You have them move around in a colorful world on a 3D-platformer adventure in the same vein as Banjo-Kazooie. Heck, even the name "Yooka-Laylee" is structured in a similar way "Banjo-Kazooie" is with the same whimsical tone. This is what I'm seeing with this project vs CoX.

And it's probably a good idea to stop with the slippery slopes and wait until they have something of actual substance to show off, like gameplay videos.

championshewolf · January 2017

jennymachx said:

championshewolf said:
Probably because Yooka Laylee isn't blatantly ripping off the game. They've literally got the exact character screen mock up from CoH in one of their screenshots. That's not a good thing. Furthermore, it is a bad thing trying to relive glory days especially in an environment where they are claiming to put story first. Story first in an MMO is a very bad thing. It's the thing most MMOs that have failed now, in the eyes of the public, have in common; they were all these supposed story driven experiences. And personally, making another CoH game is going to put another nail and extend the time to seeing an actually good super hero MMO out even further. What's next on this list, a year later we get Ship of Villains with Captain recluse in control on the ship named Etoile but lovingly called the Rogue Ship, and isolated from the Hero ship except for special locations that world "PvP" happens from time to time?

There is a difference between homage and blatant ripping off. This crosses that line quite handily, versus Yooka Laylee not.
I don't see anything to indicate that they're "ripping" off CoX when it comes to visual styles. It can be easily counter-argued that what they're doing is a homage.

And it's probably a good idea to stop with the slippery slopes and wait until they have something of actual substance to show off, like gameplay videos.

You mean the fact the ship walls are the war walls now, the names of the archetypes are the exact same, minus the controller, it's not really a slippery slope when they put it front and center for you to see. Again even the city name, Apotheosis, is just another name for Paragon. So how much more blatant do you honestly need? Their mock up character creation screen was literally ripped from CoH even.

jennymachx · January 2017

championshewolf said:
You mean the fact the ship walls are the war walls now, the names of the archetypes are the exact same, minus the controller, it's not really a slippery slope when they put it front and center for you to see. Again even the city name, Apotheosis, is just another name for Paragon. So how much more blatant do you honestly need? Their mock up character select screen was literally ripped from CoH even.

I don't care. Make it a fun product that's enjoyable to play even if it's similar to CoH to the point of "ripping it off", I'll choose to care about that instead. If they're making people who enjoyed CoH their target demographic, fine, whatever.

And the slippery slope from you I'm referring to is you claiming that something like this is going to somehow prolong the release of a currently non-existent "good" superhero MMO. That's a stretch.

championshewolf · January 2017

jennymachx said:

championshewolf said:
You mean the fact the ship walls are the war walls now, the names of the archetypes are the exact same, minus the controller, it's not really a slippery slope when they put it front and center for you to see. Again even the city name, Apotheosis, is just another name for Paragon. So how much more blatant do you honestly need? Their mock up character select screen was literally ripped from CoH even.
I don't care. Make it a fun product that's enjoyable to play even if it's similar to CoH to the point of "ripping it off", I'll choose to care about that instead. If they're making people who enjoyed CoH their target demographic, fine, whatever.

And the slippery slope from you I'm referring to is you claiming that something like this is going to somehow prolong the release of a currently non-existent "good" superhero MMO. That's a stretch.

As more of these coming out, and having longer and longer delayed launches/failed launches or bad launches due to either boring or drab game play (ala CoH style) or offering nothing interesting beyond beating up tons of goons, public opinion on super hero MMOs will wane more, which will translate to dollars lost and for developers of the genre would rather stick with things that have a chance of making money. The super hero genre has already been, to be terribly blunt, a colossal disaster in the MMO community, with the best example having only gained 250,000 subscribers at launch, and dwindling down to a mere estimated 50,000 subs by its closure. And all the others have been less than stellar, with the two big rivals Marvel and DCUO only clawing on by name recognition alone.

DCUO itself is already developing a terrible reputation now after SoE bought itself to become Daybreak, and Marvel Heroes lost a lot when Brevik quit and now they are trying to turn MH from what people liked to more of a D3 clone with a new system. And even then I would hardly call MH a MMO, despite they bill it as such. And super hero MMOs, again, don't have the best of reputations amongst MMO gamers in general, which translates into lack of interest by developers to.

pantagruel01 · January 2017

The fundamental problem with all CoH successors is that it's not a viable business plan -- there simply aren't enough people nostalgic about CoH to cover the costs of producing even a modestly competent MMO -- in fact, if you were to get 100% of the players from CoH (at the time of shutdown), it still wouldn't be enough (if it were, NCSoft would not have shut down CoH; the number of players required to make producing a new MMO viable is many times the number required to keep an existing MMO profitable).

If you're hoping for a new superhero MMO, well, either it's going to be something brand new, or it's going to be based on an existing IP with a substantial fanbase. Given that DCUO already exists, the only candidates I can see are a Marvel MMO, or Blizzard deciding to make an MMO version of Overwatch. I see no evidence that either company is interested in doing that.

championshewolf · January 2017

pantagruel01 said:
The fundamental problem with all CoH successors is that it's not a viable business plan -- there simply aren't enough people nostalgic about CoH to cover the costs of producing even a modestly competent MMO -- in fact, if you were to get 100% of the players from CoH (at the time of shutdown), it still wouldn't be enough (if it were, NCSoft would not have shut down CoH; the number of players required to make producing a new MMO viable is many times the number required to keep an existing MMO profitable).

If you're hoping for a new superhero MMO, well, either it's going to be something brand new, or it's going to be based on an existing IP with a substantial fanbase. Given that DCUO already exists, the only candidates I can see are a Marvel MMO, or Blizzard deciding to make an MMO version of Overwatch. I see no evidence that either company is interested in doing that.

I don't see a true Marvel MMO happening since Marvel themselves refuse to let people make their own heroes in their setting (remember Cryptic originally was going to make Marvel Heroes Online, and even back then they could only use the existing IP characters, not allow players to make new characters). As far as an Overwatch MMO... possible, but I don't see it happening since Blizzard wants to get into that eSport crowd and MMOs just aren't going to field that level of interest since there's a lot more dedication to reaching a decent level in an MMO versus say a shooter or MOBA. Not to mention with balances that would undoubtedly happen, today's hotness would be tomorrow's joke easily, thus people would be forced to re-roll constantly, like they have to do in WoW with each season of PvP. And that's a lot of time and effort where MOBA's and shooters there is practically no advancement system getting in the way.

The only MMO, so far, that seems to have a decent eSport crowd is Blade and Soul and I think that's only because you don't have to burn your time so much on building a new character. Entering into the arena system all stats are normalized thus a naked character will still have the best possible stats and thus equal to a person fully geared, so outside of the leveling to unlock your powers, it provides the perfect setting for people to get involved.

But, as I said before, one of the things I think kills the modern MMO is this design choice to try and make them story experiences, in a genre that is suppose to lean more towards the living world sandbox experience. Hell I think that's why people remember Vanilla WoW more fondly, as it had more sandbox elements than it does now, and you could still have your own adventure instead of waiting for the next scripted event.

spinnytop · January 2017

blumoon8 wrote: »

Also, VO is considered a failure now? How come? Are... are we allowed to discuss it? :P

I guess for some people everything is either the greatest thing ever, or complete trash.

ealford1985 · January 2017

I'm just a going to wait and see what actually comes out...too many incomplete games.

themightyzenith · January 2017

a1fighter said:
...before anyone brings it up, yea, yea, yea, VO is trash...

Fickle much? So why do you think that VO is "trash"?

a1fighter said:

Yeah we both had a salty week and ate crow, me here on Arc and you over there on ValianceShogn.net. I will have some crow with you, and dibs on the head of the centaur, not doing the butt.

Huh, what salty week did I have?

decorumfriends · January 2017

spinnytop said:
guess for some people everything is either the greatest thing ever, or complete trash.

Heh, a lot more people on these boards for whom if everything isn't perfectly, exactly what they want, it's utter garbage.

Reminds me of my ex-wife.

decorumfriends · January 2017

themightyzenith said:
Fickle much? So why do you think that VO is "trash"?

Maybe a1 got a talking to from VO about his...promotional skills.

themightyzenith · January 2017

decorumfriends said:

themightyzenith said:
Fickle much? So why do you think that VO is "trash"?
Maybe a1 got a talking to from VO about his...promotional skills.

He was demoted from an A1 to a D-

flyingfinn · January 2017

So, this is...something like...Superheroes!...In!....Space!....City!....Ship!...
Why is the heroine in the Character Creator(interface looks more than abit like in CoX...) and "gameplay" picture in a same position?
Did they use THIS to make the archetypesin the picture?
...

sterga · January 2017

None of these people trying to make a CoX "successor" seem to have any clue what made that game special in the first place. It certainly wasn't the dated combat system, archetypes, structure of the main hub, or names of iconic heroes and places.

jonsills · January 2017

After a quick look at the website, they lost me right away with the fact that each toon apparently has to fit into one of four categories.

And I've already played the "weird powers aboard a starship" thing in the Might & Magic games on my old C-64. (Went as far as World of Xeen, which I think was the fourth one.) So their "twist" does nothing for me either.

pantagruel01 · January 2017

jonsills said:
After a quick look at the website, they lost me right away with the fact that each toon apparently has to fit into one of four categories.

The categories are basically the same as roles in CO -- essentially, they're what CO calls Tank, Melee DPS, Support, and Ranged DPS. Other than the blatant steal of CoH terminology, there's nothing especially wrong with it. Of course, there's also nothing especially right about it, it's pretty much vanilla Trinity with the DPS split into two roles.

Unknown · January 2017

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spinnytop · January 2017

I can't hold back any longer.

ealford1985 · January 2017

It's okay to be hopeful, just be realistic. This is like the 5th possible game now?

I would of had more hope if these many games would have come together and made one....then and only then would I expect them to be able to compete.

But until then...I'm just going to not worry. I don't know what kind of market they believe hero games have, but it's not big enough for 6 games (DC, Marvel, CO,VO, CoT, Heroes in spaceeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!)

jonsills · January 2017

ealford1985 wrote: »

It's okay to be hopeful, just be realistic. This is like the 5th possible game now?

I would of had more hope if these many games would have come together and made one....then and only then would I expect them to be able to compete.

Well, you need five lions to form Voltron, five Ranger Zords to make the Megazord (do I have that terminology right? Never actually watched the show, just saw the toys), five kids with superpowers to make the Psi-Hawk, and five Planeteers to create Captain Planet, so why not?

"By your code combined, I am - CoX REBORN!!"

Unknown · January 2017

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championshewolf · January 2017

jonsills said:

Well, you need five lions to form Voltron, five Ranger Zords to make the Megazord (do I have that terminology right? Never actually watched the show, just saw the toys), five kids with superpowers to make the Psi-Hawk, and five Planeteers to create Captain Planet, so why not?

"By your code combined, I am - CoX REBORN!!"

I am just reminded of an old VGCats comic just reading this, and it brings me the fears. And all that keeps ringing in my ears, is fan game made by fans, and I don't really have good memories of beloved franchises turning out well when handed over to the fans.

Unknown · January 2017

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themightyzenith · January 2017

a1fighter said:
VO is trash and I was wrong

a1fighter said:
VO is the Future!!!!!!!

This time in the actual same thread??!!

Maybe log off for a few months, collect your thoughts/balance your meds and come back when you don't have contradictory opinions fighting in your head...... there'll probably be another 3 "spiritual successors" by then.

servantrules · January 2017

jonsills said:

And I've already played the "weird powers aboard a starship" thing in the Might & Magic games on my old C-64. (Went as far as World of Xeen, which I think was the fourth one.)

World of Xeen would actually be 4 and 5 (Clouds and Dark Side). I have the M&M collection from gog.com up to MM7 for, like, 3 bucks when it was on sale. Worth every penny.

jonsills said:

five kids with superpowers to make the Psi-Hawk

First Psi-Force reference I've seen online in any forum since... ever. Kudos to you, sir.

As to "Ship of Heroes"... it's another whole lot of nothing (actually even less of the usual nothing than the VO and CoT cheerleading crowd has been waving).

At this point, we'll probably see an Extreme Universe MMO before any of these current "in development" ones ever move further than pre-alpha.

shaun98ca2 · January 2017

Personally I would reinvest in CO.

Upgrade the Game engine to something new.....Elder Scrolls Online is incredible looking so something like that but more cartoony.

Go through the combat system and overhaul it. Remove rank 1 rank 2 and simply give more options to personalize to ability so players can differentiate themselves. More powers within the same power tree to choose from.

Redo the Nemesis system to something grander....like 3 long playable story lines that take you from level 1 - 40 with your ever present Nemesis. Then you can make a new Nemesis to play throw the remaining story lines.

Add an obnoxious amount of dynamic open world content sorta Guild Wars 2/Rift style. Let there be open world Consequences for failing the dynamic content. Let the open world be constantly changing to great saved protected to dangerous and bleak in dire need of a hero.

Adding and creating dynamic content means longer gameplay, as long as the gameplay itself isnt boring allowing old zones to never become old. Remove Level barriers almost exactly like Guild Wars 2. This SHOULD allow the game to feel more alive.

championshewolf · January 2017

shaun98ca2 said:
Personally I would reinvest in CO.

Upgrade the Game engine to something new.....Elder Scrolls Online is incredible looking so something like that but more cartoony.

Go through the combat system and overhaul it. Remove rank 1 rank 2 and simply give more options to personalize to ability so players can differentiate themselves. More powers within the same power tree to choose from.

Redo the Nemesis system to something grander....like 3 long playable story lines that take you from level 1 - 40 with your ever present Nemesis. Then you can make a new Nemesis to play throw the remaining story lines.

Add an obnoxious amount of dynamic open world content sorta Guild Wars 2/Rift style. Let there be open world Consequences for failing the dynamic content. Let the open world be constantly changing to great saved protected to dangerous and bleak in dire need of a hero.

Adding and creating dynamic content means longer gameplay, as long as the gameplay itself isnt boring allowing old zones to never become old. Remove Level barriers almost exactly like Guild Wars 2. This SHOULD allow the game to feel more alive.

You are basically asking for a new game at this point, and I would not wish the hero engine on my worst rival. That engine is just terrible, as many have attested who have actually played TOR or worked on it since many former BioWare devs complained about that monstrosity. And Guil Wars 2 "plan" on removing level barriers, wasn't removing them, they just made them more apparent because those maximized were still grossly more powerful than those who were proper levels, and let's not get into the whole mess of WvWvW.

But as long as we are talking about wishful thinking, here are the things I would list as do and do nots for either a brand new super hero title or a Champions 2. There is no particular order to this, of course.

DO NOT make the game based around some central story arc and linear progression system. These are MMOs, MMOs are about living, breathing worlds. If you want a linear story make a single player game with multiplayer options. Hell, that's all that CO is now, it barely even qualifies as an MMO in my eyes anymore thanks to everything being sheltered away hidden from the eyes of the public. Stories and adventures should be surrounding the main meat of the game, not be the meat. It just becomes a waiting game of when we will get content instead of players being able to create their own in the interim.

DO focus on sandbox elements and providing tools for the community to create their own stories and adventures within the game world. This doesn't have to be the Foundry, Architect or whatever you would call it system. But one of the best things about the old MMOs like UO, SWG and such was that there was no forced linear progression. People were free to build on something and be apart of the world as they chose to be. This included ways to participate in open world PvP, specific faction type systems and such. Free For All PvP is an absolute no no, but some form of open world PvP is always good. Allow players to set up rivalries with other players, because not all nemeses are just villains, and they can create their own content. Provide in game areas they can start events, like bank robberies or stopping robberies properly, not this alert bullshit.

DO NOT make a centralized hub of everything must be here. I should have a reason to go out into the world, past the quest/mission system. Find a place to RP, find a place to trade, or something. Sure have a centralized gathering place for some basic things, but not every advanced thing should be centralized and there should be a reason people go out in the world besides monster hunting.

DO make crafting a play option that people can pursue and involve themselves in. This whole mentality that something has to be for everyone to be worth development non-sense has to stop now. Crafters have always been an important backbone to a healthy game community, and snubbing them is an absolutely terrible thing. Some players just want to be a community person and for some being a community person means being a crafter, and either providing a service to others or being helpful to their fellow players. They don't want to be an adventurer but see themselves more as Mr. Fantastic and the game should provide that option. Crafted items can also help bolster an economy, especially if you start making the best items things that can be crafted or at least improved through crafting that players can see a crafter about and have made for them. Keeping these items on a finite life span is also important and requiring maintenance to, otherwise crafting begins to lose its importance, fast.

DO NOT make bound items nor make only the best items part of dungeon loot exclusively. Make such items require player interaction to improve, through either crafting or finding components for recipes that create the best items. This would help to create a social environment and player interaction and again help create and bolster an in game economy. Bound items were the absolute worst thing to ever be invented, especially on a social aspect of gaming. No one should care if Johnny Nub bank sits while wearing a Hand of Doom as a poser, besides impressing other nubs it would have little impact on said community as a whole. It would help out the in game economy and bolster community.

DO allow people to build a character that can change roles on a whim. Super heroes wear many hats in the comics and change often. While CO offers a lot of customization, though I will use that loosely due to samey requirements for every build, it doesn't do enough. If I make a character I have to enforce them to a specific role if I want to be half-way decent. I can't decide, one day, if I want to be DPS, or another a tank, or another a controller. I have to settle for one role, and if I want to change go through a costly and lengthy retconning process, and then another expensive re-gearing process. Alters should have the option to make other alts, but those who enjoy and want to expand one character should not be shunned either. It's those with those long term aspirations that will determine if your end game content is worth it, after all.

DO NOT use a singular stat system. Let's face it, the old school stats, like strength, dexterity, constitution, etc., just doesn't work in a super hero genre MMO. Especially with how craptastic Champions stat system is. As it stands now, you have to go all in if you want to be optimally effective, so even if you wanted to build a super hero that is actually not a gary/mary stu wearing a metal that is basically the equivalent of a black hole around (neutronium) and actually wanted to make yourself a certain way, well you're kind of out of luck in Champions. You have to be uber conned to tank, or uber strength for melee dps, or uber ego for ranged DPS and so on and so forth. I can't make a character that conforms to my ideals and it really removes that freedom of choice to build the hero I want.

DO allow us to focus more on the powers themselves in setting up their stats and abilities to allow us to customize them and tailor them to our tastes. I don't want my fireball to always have to be the same as everyone else's fireball. There is a terrible lack of options in powers as it stands and another one of the terrible facets of Champions is all the powers come down to the same choices in the end, all because there is no real choice in the system. You can eliminate level progression entirely and make enemies tough based on their actual powers instead of an arbitrary level indicator. Instead the power of the well, powers, can determine strength in the end.

DO NOT try to cram a bunch of areas into one big area and call it a zone. If you want to have a bunch of areas, trying to tell me that a robot cowboy theme park is next to the ultra max prison, a VIPER base, a ghost town, Area 51, a alien crashed ship, a DEMON ritual site and an irradiated nuclear test site is stretching credibility. At the very least make their own maps and expand on the obviously rich lore you could have already done there. And let's be blunt, stop focusing on **** outside the city anyways. Most super hero adventures focus on the cities.

DO focus on the city itself. There are four things that make up the core of a super hero character; powers, costume, hideout and city. Some would argue Nemeses, but I think that can be covered with a better PvP system. Millennium City is utter garbage. It can't even be called a shell of all the wasted potential and lost lore. The MC in game is only 3 miles of real estate, and everything about it is wrong from the actual book. While I would hardly expect Cryptic to make a 1:1 replica of MC/Detroit, the current MC is an utter disgrace that feels like it has no weight or history to it at all. Hell, the GM building where the Ren center is now in real life looks more like it belongs to a super hero setting than the current MC we have.

And that also brings hideouts as the other point of that. We need hideouts. Customizable hideouts that we can show off victories and adventures with others. Even if it won't be this huge things that the majority of players participate in, there is still a significant number of players who would customize the **** out of a hideout, buying up furniture and items from the AH and from the cash shop just to have that perfect look. And throw in souvenirs from various missions and you would have a literal gold mine just from those people who would get into that customization game alone. These preset hideouts just didn't cut it.

Finally, DO NOT make all missions just reskinned variants of one another. Include some depth and consequences, make the stories feel impactful. If a mission calls for stealth it should be about stealth. If I am building a Batman character I should start wanting to play like I was Batman, not every last character I make feel like I have just made Superman. Stealth missions should fail if I get seen, hostage situations should require me to secure said hostages, stopping bad guys should have me ensure minimal property damage etc. I should never, ever feel like I am just beating up a bunch of people because I caught them loitering. And that's all CO combat feels like.

markhawkman · January 2017

flyingfinn said:
So, this is...something like...Superheroes!...In!....Space!....City!....Ship!...

Why is the heroine in the Character Creator(interface looks more than abit like in CoX...) and "gameplay" picture in a same position?

Did they use THIS to make the archetypesin the picture?

...

Nah, I don't think so. I couldn't find a way to make that specific pose in Heromachine.

But I DO think it's just a sketch and not a screenshot of a character model. Also the ninja lady is seen twice in exactly the same pose but mirrored.

decorumfriends · January 2017

servantrules said:
First Psi-Force reference I've seen online in any forum since... ever. Kudos to you, sir. .

I frequent comic book boards, and you don't hear much about them there, either. Mostly just DP7 from the New Universe.

decorumfriends · January 2017

themightyzenith said:

a1fighter said:
VO is trash and I was wrong

a1fighter said:
VO is the Future!!!!!!!
This time in the actual same thread??!!

I think a1 drinks.

jonsills · January 2017

Oh, I've referenced Psi-Force quite a few times over the years, mostly in support of my contention that "Captain Planet" was a ripoff. (I mean, the New U debuts, with one of its launch titles being about five kids with varying powers who combine their powers via an amulet to form a single, greater entity to combat evil - and less than a year later, Turner debuts a cartoon about five kids with varying magic rings that combine their powers to etc?)

I had a soft spot for Tom "Psiphon" Boyd, too - poor kid just wanted to get a handle on the powers he got from the White Event, and these jagoffs set him up to be a Designated Enemy for Psi-Force. He was even able to help them form the Hawk, after Mike "Dynamite" Crawley left them to hang out with some of the background characters from DP7.

(Yeah, I read the New U line, at least up until Issue #22 in each line when RL kept me from buying comics for a while. Not Merc or Kickers, Inc, of course - I did have some taste - but I think I still have the Nightmask/Starbrand crossover issue. Wanna make something of it?

)

spinnytop · January 2017

themightyzenith said:

a1fighter said:
VO is trash and I was wrong

a1fighter said:
VO is the Future!!!!!!!

Wait... trash is the future? Is that a veiled Back to the Future III reference?

Another "Successor" to CoH?

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