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Reduce Orbital Cannon delay

pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
Currently, you have 4.5s after the ground tell appears before orbital cannon hits. That's an eternity to dodge. Reducing it to 2s would still be plenty of time for aware players to dodge (similar to destroyer's death beams) and would vastly cut down on "by the time the cannon hits, all targets are already dead" in PvE.

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    dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    On the other hand, l think you can dish out super-spikes with OC while soloing - e.g. Orbital Cannon + Shoulder Launcher + Chest Beam, make them hit bunch of targets almost at same time.

    But seriously l agree - Orbital Cannon is a lackluster & it needs a buff.
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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    The fact that they just gave it just a chance to apply Plasma Burn, was a really dissapointing "Buff"
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    But seriously l agree - Orbital Cannon is a lackluster & it needs a buff.

    Reducing the delay to 2s would actually make it a bit less viable for super-spikes, as powers like chest beam and force cascade have a charge time exceeding 2s. Reality is, orbital cannon, in terms of damage/activation time and damage/cooldown, is not an especially bad power, it just doesn't have anything to make up for its long delay on applying damage.
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    notyuunotyuu Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    Forget reducing the delay.. instead buff the damage... by like 400%
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    aesicaaesica Posts: 2,537 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I'd rather see the mandatory charge go away, personally. It'd be fine as an instant with its current long activation time, making it still tricky to use properly, but not like...outright awkward. Currently, having both a (fairly long) mandatory charge time as well as its really long activation time is kind of a double-punishment that really only makes this power good as an opener.
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    ashstorm1ashstorm1 Posts: 102 Arc User
    I'd personally rather see the Hacked Orbital Cannon codes item fixed, so it does not place a plasma DoT on the mobs as soon as i activate it. Since it results in an instant aggro, the mobs are already out of the AoE by the time the beam fires, which renders the item pointless outside of a boss fight...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    sigmaseven0sigmaseven0 Posts: 714 Arc User
    A power this visually stunning needs to be more fun and practical.

    PVP is starving without rewards

    1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
    2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
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    jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Pretty sure the delay is there to give a feeling of "build-up", seeing that there's a visual ground marker animation involved before the actual orbital beam's animation and effect starts. Something to do with the concept of an orbital satellite in space taking time to charge before firing I guess. Either that or it's to due to an energy beam needing time to travel to its target from freaking outer space. This kind of long build-up for weapon satellites / orbital bombardments has done in more than enough sci-fi TV shows / movies out there.

    I think a buff in the damage to justify the delay is more feasible. Even if it's cut down to 2 sec, it'd cut into that ground marker animation too quickly IMO. If it's going to be instant then do away with the marker altogether; something I highly expect to not happen.
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    mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 521 Arc User

    Pretty sure the delay is there to give a feeling of "build-up", seeing that there's a visual ground marker animation involved before the actual orbital beam's animation and effect starts. Something to do with the concept of an orbital satellite in space taking time to charge before firing I guess. Either that or it's to due to an energy beam needing time to travel to its target from freaking outer space. This kind of long build-up for weapon satellites / orbital bombardments has done in more than enough sci-fi TV shows / movies out there.

    I think a buff in the damage to justify the delay is more feasible. Even if it's cut down to 2 sec, it'd cut into that ground marker animation too quickly IMO. If it's going to be instant then do away with the marker altogether; something I highly expect to not happen.

    Why not place the ground marker during the charge time then have the beam strike instantly after that?
    The only trick would be that the reticle would have to follow the target during the charge.

    In any case, the ultimate purpose of the power is to deal damage, not have elaborate effects.
    Given the choice between "no one is the the beam by the time it finally goes off" and "I don't get to see the targeting marker anymore", I think pretty much everyone that uses, or wants to use, this power would choose the latter.

    While facing Mechassassin in an alert earlier today he hit no one with his orbital cannon. That includes the time he hit my character with a hold and then activated the cannon right after that.
    I was able to break free and walk out of the AoE marker with time to spare. When there was no hold? Not even close.

    The AI do not have the benefit of recognizing the reticle, but it's really only good for leading off or if a tank has a group occupied.
    Even then, though, in that latter case there may be faster and more effective ways of dealing with that crowd.
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    jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited November 2016

    Why not place the ground marker during the charge time then have the beam strike instantly after that?
    The only trick would be that the reticle would have to follow the target during the charge.

    I guess that's not a bad idea, make it possible for the reticle's position to be changed at anytime during the charging.

    In any case, the ultimate purpose of the power is to deal damage, not have elaborate effects.
    Given the choice between "no one is the the beam by the time it finally goes off" and "I don't get to see the targeting marker anymore", I think pretty much everyone that uses, or wants to use, this power would choose the latter.

    Except that most offensive powers are about elaborate effects as much as they are about dealing damage. The fact that so many powers have animation frames is because they need to show elaborate effects. If we're going to dismiss elaborate effects as being unimportant, might as well just stop using animations and just have damage take into effect instantaneously with zero input lag. That would look silly and unsatisfying since animations are an integral part the game's combat visuals.

    Since Orbital Cannon has a certain concept behind it visual-wise with a dramatic build-up involving a "OH !#*$" marker with a huge energy beam as the pay-off, I say retain that visual concept. Not everything has to be designed with FOTM min-max mentality with outputting DPS in the quickest time possible. It also has to do with what looks satisfying visually and thematically for the player.

    While facing Mechassassin in an alert earlier today he hit no one with his orbital cannon. That includes the time he hit my character with a hold and then activated the cannon right after that.
    I was able to break free and walk out of the AoE marker with time to spare. When there was no hold? Not even close.

    Unfortunately it's an AI restriction that can't be helped, unless enemies using Orbital Cannon are given the ability to move the marker before the beam hits.

    The AI do not have the benefit of recognizing the reticle, but it's really only good for leading off or if a tank has a group occupied. Even then, though, in that latter case there may be faster and more effective ways of dealing with that crowd.

    Then anyone who feels that they have better AoE options dealing with the crowd would be better off picking those options for the build. Anyone who has a priority focus on their build outputting the best DPS possible wouldn't have gone with Orbital Cannon in the first place.
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    mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 521 Arc User
    You seem to think that I am arguing with you.

    No, I am not making an argument to get rid of all of the FX on orbital cannon or anything else. A little effort on your part to understand context would be nice.
    Get rid of the reticle and have the cannon blast down immediately = small price to pay for making the power worthwhile.
    If you insist on having the power as it is no win terms of FX then you may be insisting on having it is now in all regards.

    And are other things better than the orbital cannon right now for dealing with enemies that he tank has corralled? Of course, but isn't that why people are looking for ways to make it more effective?
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

    Then anyone who feels that they have better AoE options dealing with the crowd would be better off picking those options for the build. Anyone who has a priority focus on their build outputting the best DPS possible wouldn't have gone with Orbital Cannon in the first place.

    Powers should not be designed to be objectively inferior.
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    jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited November 2016

    You seem to think that I am arguing with you.

    You're mistaken.

    No, I am not making an argument to get rid of all of the FX on orbital cannon or anything else. A little effort on your part to understand context would be nice.
    Get rid of the reticle and have the cannon blast down immediately = small price to pay for making the power worthwhile.
    If you insist on having the power as it is no win terms of FX then you may be insisting on having it is now in all regards.

    I think I understood the context well enough and addressed the fact that elaborate FX are very important in representing the power. Once again, I disagree about shortening or cancelling out anything animation related with regards to Orbital Cannon.

    And yes I insist on having the power as it is, and have mentioned that I have no problems with it getting a damage boost or having the reticle being able to be moved about by the player before the beam hits. Min-max builders would then get a more "worthwhile" power damage wise and it would still appeal to thematic players no less.

    And are other things better than the orbital cannon right now for dealing with enemies that he tank has corralled? Of course, but isn't that why people are looking for ways to make it more effective?

    Well freeform already gives all the tools to make the power as effective as the build allows. And like I said, there are people out there who for thematic reasons choose to pick the power for the "cool" FX moreso than damage. Not everything has to conform to DPS and certainly not by gutting the power visually.
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    jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited November 2016

    Powers should not be designed to be objectively inferior.

    Orbital Cannon was designed with a certain concept in mind, with how some Orbital weapon in space has a visual targetting marker and how it actually takes time for a beam to travel from space to earth below, as shown by the various sci-fi mediums that the power obviously takes inspiration from. The animation shows exactly that and it makes sense.

    The only way it's "objectively inferior" is because it's not dealing damage as quickly as your personal DPS-maxed build playstyle demands it to be.

    I'm all for giving the power a damage boost. I'm not in favor of altering the power's animation just because the effect isn't as instantenous as other powers that don't require that kind of build-up in their animation.
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    darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    gradii said:

    Powers should not be designed to be objectively inferior.

    Orbital Cannon was designed with a certain concept in mind, with how some Orbital weapon in space has a visual targetting marker and how it actually takes time for a beam to travel from space to earth below, as shown by the various sci-fi mediums that the power obviously takes inspiration from. The animation shows exactly that and it makes sense.

    The only way it's "objectively inferior" is because it's not dealing damage as quickly as your personal DPS-maxed build playstyle demands it to be.

    I'm all for giving the power a damage boost. I'm not in favor of altering the power's animation just because the effect isn't as instantenous as other powers that don't require that kind of build-up in their animation.
    I'm going to totally agree with JennymachX on this, the power would be useful AND be coolest if it just got a massive damage boost making the 4 second charge up worthwhile.
    Except there is still the issue of mobs sometimes having moved out of the way and that charge up time being wasted. I think that is the reason some folks wanted it to be instant.
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    revanantmoriturirevanantmorituri Posts: 391 Arc User
    See, what we need here is CC powers that actually performed as advertised. If we had a functional AoE Root power (You know, the third power choice on any CoH Controller) Orbital Cannon would be much easier to use. Since we don't, and Cryptic despises the concept of functioning Crowd Control, I will have to advise at least gettign rid of the charge time.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,915 Arc User
    Seriously... the lantern fish in Lemuria can CC better than any player. :/
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    mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 521 Arc User
    They can't just say "well, this power takes too long to activate so let's make it capable of one-shotting anything as a way to make up for it".
    Anvil of Dawn is still out there.

    Even if they can not reasonably make it where the reticle tracks the target, they could just reduce the activation and delay. You would still get the reticle on the ground, just not for as long.
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    skeptibleskeptible Posts: 1 Arc User
    Anyone acquired this power lately? I got it to try it out and found that it did zero damage to a non-moving target but did some damage to destructable objects a distance away. Support says it's a bug and I reported it, but it seems odd that I can find no mention of this bug.
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