TA/Q Zone OM Travel power removal - Annoying un fun gimmick or REALLY Annoying un fun gimmick?

gradii · October 2016

This has pretty much killed my desire to participate in much of the endgame. Fights like TA gravitar have already been designed to encourage or even require the use of travel powers and now they add TP removal to these fights? brilliant cryptic, top kek.

sterga · October 2016

Well, CO doesn't have a QA person / team, so this is what happens. Players are not a substitute for an actual person who works for Cryptic to do testing.

Unknown · October 2016

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roughbearmattach · October 2016

Wait, what? TA fights now all have travel power cancel? Even Gravitar and Medusa?

markhawkman · October 2016

I heard it's just that the adds can use that gravity yank power.

roughbearmattach · October 2016

. . . and that power still causes massive damage still, too.

#heroesdontfly

markhawkman · October 2016

roughbearmattach said:
. . . and that power still causes massive damage still, too.

#heroesdontfly

Also it causes "fall" damage even if you aren't flying....

avianos · November 2016

The past 2 weeks I had been constantly getting annoying with Gravity effect
Both in Q warzone and Crypts,

Inoring how Anti-Climatic I feel Q zone and Eidolon final boss fight is,

1. Overnerfing FLIGHT based powers: Along the falling damage, during Eidolon the flight powers are screwed up, they are slower than just walking, while Acrobatics and March Speed are still usable
YES WE GET IT, Flight have some advantage in this game because they can move in X-Y-Z Axis, but STOP keep nerfing it, the speed during battle phase is already slow

FLIGHT WAS ALREADY SCREWED UP DURING TA MEDUSA FIGHT, because the speed is slow during combat, collecting Medusa's mind bullets is a struggle

2. Screwing your Theme, No FLIGHT allowed: I have heard people who suggesting to only use GROUND Travel Powers, but what about the characters' theme? I want my characters with wings and jets to costantly flying and levitating, why should I be punished for my thematic decisions because the END GAME decided to suddenly be NO FUN ALLOWED?

Heck I even saw people posting recruiting messages in the lines of: LF3M for TA, NO FLIGHT ALLOWED,
wtf? is this where the game comes to?

3. Cheap Deaths Done Dirt Cheap:

Even if you float 5 feet above the ground or you are using a Ground TP, this keeps happening, you take massive falling damage out of nothing

It's been 2 weeks and this STILL hasn't been Fixed?
Is the brutal falling damage working as Intended? Psimon ALSO has a similar GRAVITY like effect, but he DOESN'T deal any damage

Falling damage will never kill you, but it will always leave you with a 1 HP, which any mob can exploit to instantly kill you, even their DoTs can kill you

Nailed to the ground never did such massive damage and it was complety removing your TP, but Gravity is breaking your Knees

I thought this was exlusive for Takofane's minions, but no this exist even in TA and Q Zone
Seriously DEVs, WTF?

You are going against the whole Super Hero genre, Some heroes are suppose to FLY

markhawkman · November 2016

To be honest the main issue with this, and it's one that makes ZERO sense, is the MASSIVE falling damage. It's like the fall damage is getting multiplied by something...

I've noted that the Strength pretty consistently does a Knock/Yank combo now. It doesn't really deal that much damage directly... it's the falling damage that really kills you, even though you're not falling far. If I was to guess.... I'd guess that the issue is the way fall damage is calculated. It seems like it'd actually calculated by looking at the speed the player is moving when fall damage is applied. Thus distance is not directly a factor.

OOH Testing time! going from altitude 455 to 255 in Ren cen does... 2582 damage.

by comparison.... falling 200 feet in the Moon Base hideout only does 1886 damage.

The difference, the moon base has a lower fall speed. So my hypothesis is that the excessive fall damage is because something used on you is setting your "fall" speed.

roughbearmattach · November 2016

Doing some Q Zone missions yesterday, the fall damage from gravity yank was the most dangerous part of dealing with mobs.

Was this intended?

aesica · November 2016

markhawkman said:
Also it causes "fall" damage even if you aren't flying....

Are you sure? I thought they fixed that in a recent patch. I don't really bother with TA, but Strength of Takofanes still uses Gravity on me when I try to outrange his aoe attacks, but the huge falling damage spikes it once caused have thankfully disappeared.

markhawkman · November 2016

not 100% sure. I have seen it cause fall damage while flying at ground level though.

opalflame · November 2016

I was hit by the crazy fall damage while running a crypt 2 or so days ago because I forgot to block a knock from Strength of Takofanes. He yanked me back towards him and I almost died from falling damage. I wasn't flying, either. Only TP I had active was dark speed.

pantagruel01 · November 2016

opalflame said:
I was hit by the crazy fall damage while running a crypt 2 or so days ago because I forgot to block a knock from Strength of Takofanes. He yanked me back towards him and I almost died from falling damage. I wasn't flying, either. Only TP I had active was dark speed.

You can pretty well kill yourself with falling damage from superspeed without any external assistance. There's something glitched about the way it works.

spinnytop · November 2016

Eh, I offtanked TA a few times in the past few days. Doesn't seem like a big deal.

jennymachx · November 2016

Getting falling damage while having a ground-based TP active? Lulz really Cryptic.

roughbearmattach · November 2016

As of last night, my toon using acrobatics was hit by gravity yank, but did not suffer fall damage.

Still, the reliance on anti-flying, anti-travel power effects is getting tiresome.

More and different mechanics please! How about

* chasing summons, like firesnake
* more mobs with travel powers themselves
* mobs that use area-control effects that are best avoided while actively using travel powers
* mobs in areas with serious environmental hazards, that are best dealt with using travel powers (molten lava should be more dangerous, too)

Unknown · November 2016

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xrazamax · November 2016

They don't disable flight for all end game content. Still works against many of the TA bosses, and you can turn it back on versus cosmics after they disable you. It is done for the simple fact that many of the attacks and mechanics would become broken if you could fly during the fights. Things would spawn in the sky, you could make aoe attacks irrelevant by flying over everything, and it would be super easy to avoid many things (for example, you can fly over the dino to avoid breath and tail attacks).

Which is why as much as people boohoo on the gravity effect in Warzone, I think it was a smart idea. Remove flight so you don't break the fight, but still let people use their TP to get around quickly. I do understand that flying characters not flying probably hurts immersion though.

pantagruel01 · November 2016

xrazamax said:
Which is why as much as people boohoo on the gravity effect in Warzone, I think it was a smart idea. Remove flight so you don't break the fight, but still let people use their TP to get around quickly. I do understand that flying characters not flying probably hurts immersion though.

The problem is that the Gravity effect doesn't work correctly -- it actually reduces flight speed even along the ground, and given that flight speed is already dog slow compared to other movement powers (r3 flight is 30'/sec, r3 acrobatics is 55'/sec, r3 superspeed is 57'/sec) you might as well just not have a travel power.

avianos · November 2016

spinnytop wrote: »

Eh, I offtanked TA a few times in the past few days. Doesn't seem like a big deal.

I have to say, I still tank and offtank great in TA, i don't see any problem, I still keep my character mobile to avoid KNOCK-Breakers

The only 2 issues i had was when the Perfection of the Mind GRAVITY-yanked me at the beggining of Medusa fight, knock-locking me and dying from Cheap Mind AoE DEATH

And when perfection of the body use gravity on me during Gravitar, and during the Gold Bubble evasion I forgot my TP was OFF--- DED

roughbearmattach wrote: »

As of last night, my toon using acrobatics was hit by gravity yank, but did not suffer fall damage.

Still, the reliance on anti-flying, anti-travel power effects is getting tiresome.

More and different mechanics please! How about

Happened to me with March Speed in the Crypts

roughbearmattach wrote: »

* chasing summons, like firesnake

FUNNY YOU MENTIONED FIRESNAKE
Since the revamp of Firesnake, Enemies' Firesnakes pathfinding is Borked

Unknown · November 2016

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spinnytop · November 2016

avianos said:

I have to say, I still tank and offtank great in TA, i don't see any problem, I still keep my character mobile to avoid KNOCK-Breakers

The only 2 issues i had was when the Perfection of the Mind GRAVITY-yanked me at the beggining of Medusa fight, knock-locking me and dying from Cheap Mind AoE DEATH

And when perfection of the body use gravity on me during Gravitar, and during the Gold Bubble evasion I forgot my TP was OFF--- DED

I think that's been changed since you last did TA. When I was in there, no knock and no NTTG. When I did turn flight on, all that happened was I was shoved to the floor, but I didn't go into the "knocked" state and didn't take any extra damage. Basically just no more "activate flight, activate block toggle, go watch youtube videos" off tanking in telios, but I didn't get yanked into a bubble death during gravi.

As far as Q Zone when my PA gets hit by gravity now the damage seems much less severe, as in I don't go to 1 hp and then die immediately. There still seems to be some normal damage, but it appears to heal back at least partially the way fall damage from knocks usually does. It's still something to consider but it didn't feel like a death sentence anymore.

gradii said:
If flight is "breaking" fights, maybe enemies should get more ranged attacks hmm? No reason to render flight useless, its a freaking superhero staple.

Well to be fair flight hasn't been rendered useless, it's just had some of it's huge advantages in many situations either lessened or removed. Only real issue, if it exists, would be the "moving slower while grounded" effect, and there we'll just have to hope they can fix it ( wondering if all that extra gravity is literally just causing more friction between the character and the ground and that's what's causing the slowdown, lel ).

I mean honestly, I've actually enjoyed having a reason to use some of my flying toon's other travel powers, while still having a reason to use their flight... feels nice figuring out which scenario works best with which TP.

xrazamax · November 2016

gradii said:
If flight is "breaking" fights, maybe enemies should get more ranged attacks hmm? No reason to render flight useless, its a freaking superhero staple.

Enemies can't constantly use those attacks though. If they need to use an attack were they summon a portal on a player's location, or an AoE circle or bubble, and you are flying, that creates a ton of issues. The portal/object/enemy summoned may be unreachable to everyone without ranged/flight power (imagine those portals during Eidolon being high up in the sky where nobody can attack/see them), and Aoe circles become harmless because they are up in the sky where nobody is except one flying person who just flies higher/lower. There is also the classic of taking a targeted AoE bubble with you up into the sky so it doesn't effect anyone on the ground. Combine flight with a long range attack, or even Sniper Rifle, and you could also just stay high up in the sky above the fray.

So unless all cosmics are always using 120+ ft ranged powers, flight will let you avoid the dangerous part of the fight. This is why in fights where range from target isn't an issue, you are able to use TPs or why they only have TP disable attacks.

I do think a legitiment point is that Flight is super slow so it becomes unusable during times you need to move fast (Medusa, Eidolon stage 3). However, we do get TWO travel powers, so there is that, and I don't think on the list of priorities that trying to make flight balanced and not start slow is something very high atm.

chaelk · November 2016

I still used ranged against the Crypts, the yank power is over 100ft.

Unknown · November 2016

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sterga · November 2016

Since the Gravity update, my ranged character gets knocked and takes 3-5k additional fall damage even without a travel power on.

Who cares if someone that's flying has to move around because of some bubble? Just having to move makes the fight more engaging than letting the cat play with the keyboard while I make a sandwich.

One of the biggest selling points of a super hero game is to be a super hero and do cool stuff. Some thing just aren't worth giving a crap about. Things like someone being able to fly above the terribly programmed AI. The AI is still terrible with the overzealous Gravity mechanic and it will always be terrible because no one working on CO has the programming experience or attention to detail needed for AI work.

These janky workarounds just end up being aggravating and broke AF.

spinnytop · November 2016

gradii said:

Why are we making things which need to be targeted spawn on players then? Even now eidolon is being adjusted away from these mechanics so the devs have already realized it's a bad idea.

Eh, there's still gonna be plenty of stuff in eid that spawns on players tho.

Spawning on players is a good idea because it ensures that whatever has spawned is relevant to the people currently in the fight. Otherwise you risk spawning something that isn't near anyone and hence is completely irrelevant to the fight currently in process.

Orbs not spawning on players is actually being done so that they're not so easy to dps down when they end up in a cluster.

pantagruel01 · November 2016

spinnytop said:
Spawning on players is a good idea....

Um... weren't you just posting threads about fixing melee? A lot of the problem with melee is that things spawn on players, and since you have a bunch of melee players in a small group, spawning on them means it hits a whole bunch of players.

spinnytop · November 2016

pantagruel01 said:

spinnytop said:
Spawning on players is a good idea....
Um... weren't you just posting threads about fixing melee? A lot of the problem with melee is that things spawn on players, and since you have a bunch of melee players in a small group, spawning on them means it hits a whole bunch of players.

Unless you're going to advocate for everything becoming single target then aoe attacks hitting multiple melee players more frequently is always going to be a side effect of melee's short range. Removing player-targeted effects is not a solution to the melee problem brought up in the other thread.

Now, while you're claiming they should be removed wholesale I did think of something that would be an actual melee-friendly solution: the closer the targeted effect is to the boss npc, the smaller the radius of the effect. Result, if the effect is in the melee crowd it's very small and only threatens a portion of them. Of course no matter how far away it gets it never goes past the reasonable size where a player could reasonably escape it.

See, there's a solution that works while keeping the targeting mechanic in place, no need to try to rip it out of the game.

PS - also in that thread, the idea is to find solutions for melee within the current circumstances it operates in. It wasn't so much about altering those circumstances, since that requires much more far-reaching changes.

furries2 · November 2016

Sadly my Main Travel Power is flight. But beacuse he was not born to fly anyways intially he uses Machanical wings to have the ability to fly and are easily removable by the user if for any reason he has to eject the wings off his power armor losing his ability to fly.

All he has is as a second Travel Power is Super Jump beacuse of his vary strong legs. He has no way to like go fast at all the only thing I can make him run fast is Dark Speed which dont fit my theme but it does help get places if im in a hurry.

But yea could diffently be a issue for me. Sense I am a Melee Flying Character.

markhawkman · November 2016

sterga said:
Since the Gravity update, my ranged character gets knocked and takes 3-5k additional fall damage even without a travel power on.

Yeah the trigger that Strength uses is distance. It doesn't really check altitude.

TA/Q Zone OM Travel power removal - Annoying un fun gimmick or REALLY Annoying un fun gimmick?

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