I'm a seven year veteran, and I've been here since September of 2008 in the friends and family Alpha test. If the grind had been this tough in the past, I don't think I'd have remained all this time.
The original Unity gear was actually about the same as this grind. It just wasn't used much.
The saving grace of all this depends on what the future ways of obtaining more SCR are. If we are going to be getting a lot more SCR than just dailies and unity missions, then I am fine with it. Otherwise, the prices are not just kinda high, they are exorbitant.
Not to mention us only being able to carry 1k of any recognition- a cap I've never once reached in 5 years of playing CO.
I've never hit 1000, or even 500, I've barely even gone over 100 since I've used them to get gear for my 40's along the way since joining May 2012, I like to play the game then grind for a living, if prices stay like this then it's going to De-incentives making more 40's, maybe 50SCR a piece then 200, otherwise, might as well stop playing... cause sure as hell I find it hard enough for certain content as is with just Heroics... yet alone settle for anything less, or is that your plan all along? More despair between builds, make the Rich richer and keep the average, poor?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
These changes just make me think I'm way too poor to be making videos for this game. Some of you guys that can afford to buy boat loads of keys to sell on the AH every week can step up and do some videos. All this grinding to do stuff for videos on top of paying for a weekly CC and picking up fun stuff for my toon is just making me not want to play the game at all.
The saving grace of all this depends on what the future ways of obtaining more SCR are. If we are going to be getting a lot more SCR than just dailies and unity missions, then I am fine with it. Otherwise, the prices are not just kinda high, they are exorbitant.
Not to mention us only being able to carry 1k of any recognition- a cap I've never once reached in 5 years of playing CO.
I have it on good authority there are no plans to increase the cap, and while people might think it needs raising, it really doesn't matter. Nobody is going to be stocking up 1k SCR or GCR with prices being really high and the rate of gaining the tokens not going to accidentally take you over the cap.
Noone in their right mind is going to spend countless hours for 1 set of heroic gear at all. That time is far better spend getting justice gear. Heroic gear should be easy to obtain, to start you off getting better stuff.
Also, CO is an alting game for many people, they have fun making dozens of different characters. Heroic gear is perfect for those people, they can get it easily and still play without being dead weight, together with their friends who have only a few (or one) characters they like to focus on and that have been fully geared in all the endgame stuff.
This is just like mods, r5 is cheap but works, want some really good stuff you pay 20 times (I know 25 in theory, but AH pricing..) as much for r7, have to much money or time to spend you can pay 20 times as much again for r9. Going from r5 to r7 is about the same difference as going from heroic to justice gear, so I feel very strongly the time you invest should be about a factor 20 difference.
Right, like I said though, if we are going to be given the ability to get a lot more SCR then I'm fine with it. The important thing is like you said however, the time investment for getting heroic gear is good as is, you should not have to spend what would be roughly 6 times as long to get heroic gear as you presently need to with the prices at 35 SCR compared to 200 SCR.
That said, SCR prices on those vendors need a major slashing because there is no way I see us getting 6 or even twice the amount of SCR we currently are even with new content.
Sorry that was a but of a rant, most of it wasn't even a real reply anymore. I just feel strongly the heroic gear changes are the worst part of this update, by far.
Just screw over people with Alts who need Heroics will ya?
That said Im 100% Negative for the Heroic change!
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
The Asian grinders doesn't usually do well outside of Asian countries. The past few events have been pushing that line. These prices, along with the nerf to the SCR mission rewards is one giant step over that line.
Noone in their right mind is going to spend countless hours for 1 set of heroic gear at all. That time is far better spend getting justice gear. Heroic gear should be easy to obtain, to start you off getting better stuff.
This is a significant issue. If the cost of a piece of Heroic Gear is 1/4 the cost of a much better piece of gear, then why even bother? Better to hunker down with whatever stuff you have and grind to the better piece.
As rtma said, this price change will heavily separate veteran players who already have attained or surpassed Heroic gear from new players who haven't.
If you are going to raise the token costs, have the other methods of getting the tokens in first. Don't raise the cost and then add the other methods. Though the only way 1000 tokens would be remotely acceptable is if those other methods granted a large quantity of tokens, if those other methods are reward less then 10 you can pretty much forget anyone bothering.
If you are going to raise the token costs, have the other methods of getting the tokens in first. Don't raise the cost and then add the other methods. Though the only way 1000 tokens would be remotely acceptable is if those other methods granted a large quantity of tokens, if those other methods are reward less then 10 you can pretty much forget anyone bothering.
10 tokens would=100 days=~3 months..now, that's only for max tokens For Gear: 10=20 days=little less than a month for gear that is two tiers lower than new gear. Not a good idea, unless like you said there'll be more methods..
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
The ALL search function does not work like the other tabs. You have to type in a letter to search for anything. So for the new [Special Item Voucher] you have to type in name under ALL and search.
Please fix this so that SEARCH>ALL>ANY QUALITY pulls up the next 400 items in the AH.
The ALL search function does not work like the other tabs. You have to type in a letter to search for anything. So for the new [Special Item Voucher] you have to type in name under ALL and search.
Please fix this so that SEARCH>ALL>ANY QUALITY pulls up the next 400 items in the AH.
Why would someone want to simply search for any item, any quality? I don't understand the bug.
Looking at UNITY: previously you would get 18 SCR for ~40m work. This implies 1 SCR ~= 2m work, which if you're smash farming will get you through a smash, and thus sets a value on SCR at ~3g; this is consistent with typical AH prices for heroics.
Despite no actual change in UNITY, the prices for heroics have declined recently, probably because of new SCR drops from bosses. It is likely that those prices would climb on their own if new uses for SCR existed, so we can probably still say that the baseline for SCR was about 3g. The adjustment to unity increases the baseline value of SCR to about 7g -- unless other sources are dominant, in which case there's no good reason to reduce UNITY to start with.
I think it's plausible that heroic gear was underpriced -- but it's inferior to Legion gear, which is generally in the 500-1k range (more or less depending on desirability). A baseline value of 600 is maybe plausible, but I'd probably think 150 and no change to UNITY would be the right ratio.
Looking at UNITY: previously you would get 18 SCR for ~40m work. This implies 1 SCR ~= 2m work, which if you're smash farming will get you through a smash, and thus sets a value on SCR at ~3g; this is consistent with typical AH prices for heroics.
I didn't check the math, but this makes the assumption you are jumping into game with the sole purpose of building up and grinding for this currency and remember it's once per day. I'm raising many alts, running vigilance, jumping into rampages Gravitar, earning Gs to go the AH route, and queuing, queuing, and some more queuing (I play EU times). CO is my entertainment, not job
I've been here since very late 2012 and my main alt has accumulated 460+ SCR. I've been using this toon to run Unity missions for the sole purposes of collecting Heroic gear to equip my other lesser toons who have no chance of completing liars as a mainly solo player.
And you're right it doesn't take that long (@devs...please get rid of Manimal...*shivers*), but you know doing other CO stuff is also cool.
Now with all these new pretties vying for SCR cause the GCR Store has some great things (teleios back anyone?? yes!) and there are still a few On Alert pieces I'd like to pick up and well, just by the prices again, the situation looks bleak...ask the guys in Lemuria.
It's good as a player to know that you are playing towards an achievable goal. I hope it will be raining SCR in open world.
I don't like Sigs, but I'll leave this here anyway. At least I'm not to trying to hypnotise you with moving things!
Part of the reason why I started making the videos is because I can't just be buying crap from the cash shop all the time but wanted to show support for the game in some way. It didn't escape my notice that the grinding of the events would have been a lot less unpleasant if I could have simply bought all of the ATs and sell keys for globals to buy components or wasn't bothering to make videos. Seeing that this grind is only the beginning is frustrating.
Part of it is the grind itself and part of it is stuff that's my problem. So, just venting some.
Looking at UNITY: previously you would get 18 SCR for ~40m work. This implies 1 SCR ~= 2m work, which if you're smash farming will get you through a smash, and thus sets a value on SCR at ~3g; this is consistent with typical AH prices for heroics.
Despite no actual change in UNITY, the prices for heroics have declined recently, probably because of new SCR drops from bosses. It is likely that those prices would climb on their own if new uses for SCR existed, so we can probably still say that the baseline for SCR was about 3g. The adjustment to unity increases the baseline value of SCR to about 7g -- unless other sources are dominant, in which case there's no good reason to reduce UNITY to start with.
I think it's plausible that heroic gear was underpriced -- but it's inferior to Legion gear, which is generally in the 500-1k range (more or less depending on desirability). A baseline value of 600 is maybe plausible, but I'd probably think 150 and no change to UNITY would be the right ratio.
I disagree, I think looking at SCR value is not the right way to do this. The cost of SCR/legion gear on live is only the way it is due to how things are on live right now. The increased options to spend SCR will influence availablity and so will influence cost.
First you need to look at how long it takes to get a full set and then consider if that time is not far better spend on getting rampage tokens. With 1SCR=2minutes, and 1heroic=150SCR, you would take 150x2x3=900minutes=15hours to get 1 full set. In 15 hours of doing rampages you can have half of the tokens for a full justice set (all if you are a bit lucky with the RNG).
Another consideration is how different people actually play CO, and how this change affects them. After 4 years of high end content drought, one of the types of player that has kept CO alive are the people who love making tons of alts. And CO has been purposely set up to allow that, and still have all those alts get entry level endgame gear without to much trouble. The people I know that enjoy creating new character concepts all the time already have troubles gearing up all their level 40 characters into heroic gear. And while I am not arguing to make that take less time then currently on live, I think a 15 hour grind for entry level endgame gear for 1 character is way to high.
It would be nice to have the option, once you are lvl 40, to select what you want as a reward for completing regular missions. I.e. Experience is useless once you are 40, but that is the only reward option. Give players the option to pick up some quantity of SCR/GCR or Questionite instead. This might encourage people to play through more of the material in MI, Lemuria and VB and make the Grind for the top prizes for palatable.
The ALL search function does not work like the other tabs. You have to type in a letter to search for anything. So for the new [Special Item Voucher] you have to type in name under ALL and search.
Please fix this so that SEARCH>ALL>ANY QUALITY pulls up the next 400 items in the AH.
Why would someone want to simply search for any item, any quality? I don't understand the bug.
Because it's not working like the other tabs. If I want to see how many RARE devices there are all I have to do is click on devices and set it to rare. ALL doesnt work at all, unless you type something in.
Perhaps you want to know how many Legendary items there are? Some items do not have a category to search in (eg vouchers). So if you want to find a voucher you have to type in the name, why have search quality if it doesn't work?
- Prices have been adjusted to better match the acquisition of tokens. - Silver Champions Recognition token drops have been reduced from Unity missions. Unity Missions should give 1 and the main daily should give 3. - Silver Champions Recognition tokens will be added to more locations in the near future.
1. If your raising the SCR cost Unity should be adjusted up, not down even with the mystery additional acquisition rate, we can only do things one at a time. It's total time were thinking for a directed "SCR attack" by the user (Unless there's SCR droops in Unity, .. tokens in tokens .. tokens coming from every oriface . . but your not telling us this)
2. 1000 tokens for base gear, and what for gold 1500 (Edit: checks .. wait no there's a patch .. let's see the update ...) 2a Ok now 250 tokens for base gear, 3 slots, no bonus. 500 total for 4 slots with bonuses. The slight correction has made this slightly less of an issue, the gap is more reasonable .. but still ..
3. Let's keep base heroics "casual friendly", let people in to the end game with semi strong heroes.
If you want a new source to eat up SCR and give people things to do I'll propose
-- 3 Slot Heroic Justice, and 3 Slot Heroic Distinguished. i.e. Make a new heroic set(s), with set bonuses, something to extend play for casuals and ATs. The 4th slot doesn't help them, but the set bonus might.
Without knowing the new mystery drops I'll assume they are *VERY SIGNIFICANT* propose
50-100 for base heroics (3 slot no bonus), lower is better 200 for heriocs with 3 slots bonus 200/100 (250/150) split for new, still eats up tokens. Hard to judge with drop rate, what 1 telios run give you? is there Gold for Rampages?
4. I guess point for goes with the last point, without knowing the additional details we're left to pitch forks and torches. Experience tells us "later" means you don't know yet and might be introduced months, years or forgotten entirely
200 SCR for heroics is ridiculous. Seriously ridiculous. I can't see myself bothering with heroics if the cost is more than 50, and 35 is just about right. They're supposed to be easy 'gear up for 40' gear so you can get to farming for justice (or just be happy with your character and move on to the next one). I will just bypass heroics straight for justice in the future if heroics are 200 per. Hell, it'll take less time.
Also, nerfing UNITY SCR drops pretty much ensures i'll never play them again. I'll just have to figure out which of my characters can actually solo run vikorin for any SCR needs, as it'll be vastly more efficient timewise. (And even then only for the costume pieces).
And as far as i can tell, the new GCR gear is worse than justice. So it's terribly overpriced, but i can't be bothered to care.
(In general, most of the new prices are far too much, actually).
My initial reaction to running through the Teleios PTS has been mildly positive with an immense load of concerns but they boil down to a few bullet point:
1. As an epic finish, Rampage clones are a great idea. Insanely challenging and require teamwork to beat. Thumbs up. (Gravitar clone is overpowered though). 2. Nerfing existing and favored powers (I'm thinking of Skarn's Bane, as others have pointed out) does nothing but build resentment in your players. When Dodge was nerfed a while back, it screwed up two or three of my toons' builds and their power synergies were never the same, so they didn't play the same. Avoid it. Fix powers that are broken because that's the equivalent of introducing new powers for most players. 3. Pricing is ridiculous. Grinding, to my knowledge, has not benefited any MMORPG in expanding its base or retaining players, and the grind that is necessary for the revamped gear prices will put off most players, old and new. 4. +10 to no PSS Stats on new elite gear does not merit grinding. (See above.) New stat building gear that is just re-painted Nemesis gear is a waste of tokens/coin. 5. I've been playing this game since its debut and have built at least 20 alts that are 40th level. If the level cap is not going up, then the only attraction to keeping me playing is content (which Teleios is good but not amazing) and generating new alts to level quickly with tradeable gear. Consider this when determining nerfs, changes, etc.
Any chance that SCR/GCR will become account bound, not character bound? One of the things I like about Rampages is that over the course of gathering tokens to equip a hero with a complete set of JG (takes me about 6 weeks of semi-serious effort) I can use several different characters to get the job done, and so I don't get so bored because of the variety of the heroes I am playing. One of the things I dislike about the Onslaught system is that I have to use the same hero for the entire process. If I want to equip one character with a complete set of Onslaught secondaries I have to use the same hero for also about 6 weeks. This gets dull.
I am very much hoping that you are considering the amount of time it will take to equip one hero with a set of Distinguished Gear. It shouldn't take any longer than JG with which it is supposed to be equivalent. With the little information that is currently available about how easy it will be to come by SCR/GCR, and what final prices will be, it is unclear (to me) how long the Devs think the DG equipping process should be.
Bat Flight isn't worth it's current cost, let alone 1000 tokens.
Those Recog store flight powers are generally awful and why the devs think anyone will try and accumulate an absurd number of tokens to get them is beyond me. It's nonsense.
Let me know if I've missed something. I'll try periodically to update this post as things change, but no guarantees.
For the PRIMUS store, the costume parts you have listed as new are not new. They are in the current store for 10 PRIMUS recog each.
For the MCPD store, the costume parts you have listed as new are not new. They are in the current store for 10 MCPD recog each.
Also, you do not have the UNTIL recognition vendor store listed. You do have the UNTIL Vendor in the UNTIL building, but that's completely different. I can try to pull that info when I have time if you want.
Bat Flight isn't worth it's current cost, let alone 1000 tokens.
Those Recog store flight powers are generally awful and why the devs think anyone will try and accumulate an absurd number of tokens to get them is beyond me. It's nonsense.
Anyone check plz Feline Metabolic Serum. Did that get rid of 30 minutes CD? l wish it be now just Athletics R3 carried out as device, although it doesn't fit theme much, but l wanna it on my main, because l'm tired that Dark Speed's black flames cover my precious appearance.
Nevertheless I love that they made Regeneration Cores and Beneficent Construct (healing pet) devices. That can be drastic improvement for playing as AT, which so lack healing!
So avoiding the whole new inflated prices for average gear debate, I think it's a terrible idea for the record but have nothing new to add, has anyone tried out these new vendor menus? I can't seem to sell anything to Karneeki the Great. I think there may be an error in how the new vendor menus are set up.
Okay, anyone who's been wondering why some of us don't really run out to do team missions - I think we can see right here in this thread one of the issues.
It's been stated that a given level of gear is "necessary" in order to "not be a drag" on the team; that gear requires a grind, and is then BOP, so only the toon to be equipped can grind for it. That's kind of a showstopper there, because we can't all grind for long. (I've got lots of responsibilities to the other members of this household, and can generally only play for maybe an hour or so each night - more on special occasions, when I can carve out extra time for limited things like Clarence. When I still had a job, it was even worse.)
Then came the gear items that required you to run just tons of Rampages, in the hopes that the items you needed several of would actually drop. And the RNG Gods are not always kind. (Before I gave up on that, I accumulated a grand total of three Destreum Bearings, for instance.)
Now we're increasing the prices of the items that can be bought with Recognition, and decreasing the amount of Recog that drops. I'm sure you can see where that works even harder against the folks I mentioned earlier. Unless this is a purposeful attempt to lock us Filthy Casuals out of what passes for endgame here, something needs to be done - I recommend either reducing the Recog costs, or making Recognition account-bound rather than character-bound, and in either case make the extra items needed for certain gears a guaranteed drop from Rampages rather than making someone run the same Rampage twenty-three times to get one of the - what is it, ten? - drops they need for each gear.
Now, if this is intended to keep Filthy Casuals out of endgame and just alting a lot, then well done, this should do the trick. Might make some of them think twice about staying with the game, though. (Not me - I actually enjoy running through the game with different characters - but some.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I would be surprised if there were many 'non-casual' players who would be willing to grind 600 scr to get a complete set of heroic gear. The prices are beyond absurd.
I doubt anyone will like this grind, casual or not. CO doesn't have the right set up to make any kind of grind fun. Maybe if they massively expanded the alert system, added the ability to teleport to any respawn point in the world, and added alerts to zones around those spawn points which rewarded currency, grind would be hidden behind something hopefully fun.
I doubt anyone will like this grind, casual or not. CO doesn't have the right set up to make any kind of grind fun. Maybe if they massively expanded the alert system, added the ability to teleport to any respawn point in the world, and added alerts to zones around those spawn points which rewarded currency, grind would be hidden behind something hopefully fun.
Right. Examples of fun grinds in CO: Fire & Ice, Gravitar, and that's about it, in my opinion.
I would add that Cryptic has a terrible track record of retroactively nerfing things after you've gone through the grind (and/or cash shop) to unlock them. Not a great incentive for players to invest in future grinds.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Right. Examples of fun grinds in CO: Fire & Ice, Gravitar, and that's about it, in my opinion.
and Examples of NOT FUN GRINDING: Lemuria Invansion and Sky Command, those things exist to waste your time and frustate you with the RNG
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
I doubt anyone will like this grind, casual or not. CO doesn't have the right set up to make any kind of grind fun. Maybe if they massively expanded the alert system, added the ability to teleport to any respawn point in the world, and added alerts to zones around those spawn points which rewarded currency, grind would be hidden behind something hopefully fun.
I liked that I could ding 40, do six days of UNITY, have that 40 at a "good enough" power level, then move on to the new slot the 40 unlocked.
I liked that if I had an urge to play a 40, decked out in "lowly" SCR gear and T5 mods, even if I hadn't played that hero in some time, I could hop into just about anything I wanted to.
I liked that CO had not fallen to the church of the One True Main.
I would like to have used the present tense but I don't think I will like what our Delta Rising will bring.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I doubt anyone will like this grind, casual or not. CO doesn't have the right set up to make any kind of grind fun. Maybe if they massively expanded the alert system, added the ability to teleport to any respawn point in the world, and added alerts to zones around those spawn points which rewarded currency, grind would be hidden behind something hopefully fun.
I liked that I could ding 40, do six days of UNITY, have that 40 at a "good enough" power level, then move on to the new slot the 40 unlocked.
I liked that if I had an urge to play a 40, decked out in "lowly" SCR gear and T5 mods, even if I hadn't played that hero in some time, I could hop into just about anything I wanted to.
I liked that CO had not fallen to the church of the One True Main.
I would like to have used the present tense but I don't think I will like what our Delta Rising will bring.
^ Yes. Exactly..oh well, at least I got heroics on a good number of toons, and 2 pieces of legion on someone..
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Prices in the recog store are ludicrous unless the drop rate for recogs has increased.
I have to imagine we're going to be silly with new ways to get recog. That's likely why they raised the prices. After all, there's no reason in the world ( not even evil corporate conspiracy theory reasons ) to raise the prices otherwise.
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I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Also, CO is an alting game for many people, they have fun making dozens of different characters. Heroic gear is perfect for those people, they can get it easily and still play without being dead weight, together with their friends who have only a few (or one) characters they like to focus on and that have been fully geared in all the endgame stuff.
This is just like mods, r5 is cheap but works, want some really good stuff you pay 20 times (I know 25 in theory, but AH pricing..) as much for r7, have to much money or time to spend you can pay 20 times as much again for r9. Going from r5 to r7 is about the same difference as going from heroic to justice gear, so I feel very strongly the time you invest should be about a factor 20 difference.
That said, SCR prices on those vendors need a major slashing because there is no way I see us getting 6 or even twice the amount of SCR we currently are even with new content.
That said Im 100% Negative for the Heroic change!
This is a significant issue. If the cost of a piece of Heroic Gear is 1/4 the cost of a much better piece of gear, then why even bother? Better to hunker down with whatever stuff you have and grind to the better piece.
As rtma said, this price change will heavily separate veteran players who already have attained or surpassed Heroic gear from new players who haven't.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Though the only way 1000 tokens would be remotely acceptable is if those other methods granted a large quantity of tokens, if those other methods are reward less then 10 you can pretty much forget anyone bothering.
For Gear: 10=20 days=little less than a month for gear that is two tiers lower than new gear. Not a good idea, unless like you said there'll be more methods..
42 40s, LTSer.
The ALL search function does not work like the other tabs. You have to type in a letter to search for anything. So for the new [Special Item Voucher] you have to type in name under ALL and search.
Please fix this so that SEARCH>ALL>ANY QUALITY pulls up the next 400 items in the AH.
I don't understand the bug.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Despite no actual change in UNITY, the prices for heroics have declined recently, probably because of new SCR drops from bosses. It is likely that those prices would climb on their own if new uses for SCR existed, so we can probably still say that the baseline for SCR was about 3g. The adjustment to unity increases the baseline value of SCR to about 7g -- unless other sources are dominant, in which case there's no good reason to reduce UNITY to start with.
I think it's plausible that heroic gear was underpriced -- but it's inferior to Legion gear, which is generally in the 500-1k range (more or less depending on desirability). A baseline value of 600 is maybe plausible, but I'd probably think 150 and no change to UNITY would be the right ratio.
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Block timing explained
rampagesGravitar, earning Gs to go the AH route, and queuing, queuing, and some more queuing (I play EU times). CO is my entertainment, not jobI've been here since very late 2012 and my main alt has accumulated 460+ SCR. I've been using this toon to run Unity missions for the sole purposes of collecting Heroic gear to equip my other lesser toons who have no chance of completing liars as a mainly solo player.
And you're right it doesn't take that long (@devs...please get rid of Manimal...*shivers*), but you know doing other CO stuff is also cool.
Now with all these new pretties vying for SCR cause the GCR Store has some great things (teleios back anyone?? yes!) and there are still a few On Alert pieces I'd like to pick up and well, just by the prices again, the situation looks bleak...ask the guys in Lemuria.
It's good as a player to know that you are playing towards an achievable goal. I hope it will be raining SCR in open world.
Part of it is the grind itself and part of it is stuff that's my problem. So, just venting some.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
First you need to look at how long it takes to get a full set and then consider if that time is not far better spend on getting rampage tokens. With 1SCR=2minutes, and 1heroic=150SCR, you would take 150x2x3=900minutes=15hours to get 1 full set. In 15 hours of doing rampages you can have half of the tokens for a full justice set (all if you are a bit lucky with the RNG).
Another consideration is how different people actually play CO, and how this change affects them. After 4 years of high end content drought, one of the types of player that has kept CO alive are the people who love making tons of alts. And CO has been purposely set up to allow that, and still have all those alts get entry level endgame gear without to much trouble. The people I know that enjoy creating new character concepts all the time already have troubles gearing up all their level 40 characters into heroic gear. And while I am not arguing to make that take less time then currently on live, I think a 15 hour grind for entry level endgame gear for 1 character is way to high.
Perhaps you want to know how many Legendary items there are? Some items do not have a category to search in (eg vouchers). So if you want to find a voucher you have to type in the name, why have search quality if it doesn't work?
So, searching All-->Legendary does not work? Did you try All-->Rare, for instance?
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
(Unless there's SCR droops in Unity, .. tokens in tokens .. tokens coming from every oriface . . but your not telling us this)
2. 1000 tokens for base gear, and what for gold 1500 (Edit: checks .. wait no there's a patch .. let's see the update ...)
2a Ok now 250 tokens for base gear, 3 slots, no bonus. 500 total for 4 slots with bonuses. The slight correction has made this slightly less of an issue, the gap is more reasonable .. but still ..
3. Let's keep base heroics "casual friendly", let people in to the end game with semi strong heroes.
If you want a new source to eat up SCR and give people things to do I'll propose
-- 3 Slot Heroic Justice, and 3 Slot Heroic Distinguished. i.e. Make a new heroic set(s), with set bonuses, something to extend play for casuals and ATs. The 4th slot doesn't help them, but the set bonus might.
Without knowing the new mystery drops I'll assume they are *VERY SIGNIFICANT* propose
50-100 for base heroics (3 slot no bonus), lower is better
200 for heriocs with 3 slots bonus
200/100 (250/150) split for new, still eats up tokens. Hard to judge with drop rate, what 1 telios run give you? is there Gold for Rampages?
4. I guess point for goes with the last point, without knowing the additional details we're left to pitch forks and torches. Experience tells us "later" means you don't know yet and might be introduced months, years or forgotten entirely
Also, nerfing UNITY SCR drops pretty much ensures i'll never play them again. I'll just have to figure out which of my characters can actually solo run vikorin for any SCR needs, as it'll be vastly more efficient timewise. (And even then only for the costume pieces).
And as far as i can tell, the new GCR gear is worse than justice. So it's terribly overpriced, but i can't be bothered to care.
(In general, most of the new prices are far too much, actually).
1. As an epic finish, Rampage clones are a great idea. Insanely challenging and require teamwork to beat. Thumbs up. (Gravitar clone is overpowered though).
2. Nerfing existing and favored powers (I'm thinking of Skarn's Bane, as others have pointed out) does nothing but build resentment in your players. When Dodge was nerfed a while back, it screwed up two or three of my toons' builds and their power synergies were never the same, so they didn't play the same. Avoid it. Fix powers that are broken because that's the equivalent of introducing new powers for most players.
3. Pricing is ridiculous. Grinding, to my knowledge, has not benefited any MMORPG in expanding its base or retaining players, and the grind that is necessary for the revamped gear prices will put off most players, old and new.
4. +10 to no PSS Stats on new elite gear does not merit grinding. (See above.) New stat building gear that is just re-painted Nemesis gear is a waste of tokens/coin.
5. I've been playing this game since its debut and have built at least 20 alts that are 40th level. If the level cap is not going up, then the only attraction to keeping me playing is content (which Teleios is good but not amazing) and generating new alts to level quickly with tradeable gear. Consider this when determining nerfs, changes, etc.
I am very much hoping that you are considering the amount of time it will take to equip one hero with a set of Distinguished Gear. It shouldn't take any longer than JG with which it is supposed to be equivalent. With the little information that is currently available about how easy it will be to come by SCR/GCR, and what final prices will be, it is unclear (to me) how long the Devs think the DG equipping process should be.
No one is going to farm that, Make it 5 Tokens, or put the Travel Powers in the Z-Store
Those Recog store flight powers are generally awful and why the devs think anyone will try and accumulate an absurd number of tokens to get them is beyond me. It's nonsense.
For the PRIMUS store, the costume parts you have listed as new are not new. They are in the current store for 10 PRIMUS recog each.
For the MCPD store, the costume parts you have listed as new are not new. They are in the current store for 10 MCPD recog each.
Also, you do not have the UNTIL recognition vendor store listed. You do have the UNTIL Vendor in the UNTIL building, but that's completely different. I can try to pull that info when I have time if you want.
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Nevertheless I love that they made Regeneration Cores and Beneficent Construct (healing pet) devices. That can be drastic improvement for playing as AT, which so lack healing!
It's been stated that a given level of gear is "necessary" in order to "not be a drag" on the team; that gear requires a grind, and is then BOP, so only the toon to be equipped can grind for it. That's kind of a showstopper there, because we can't all grind for long. (I've got lots of responsibilities to the other members of this household, and can generally only play for maybe an hour or so each night - more on special occasions, when I can carve out extra time for limited things like Clarence. When I still had a job, it was even worse.)
Then came the gear items that required you to run just tons of Rampages, in the hopes that the items you needed several of would actually drop. And the RNG Gods are not always kind. (Before I gave up on that, I accumulated a grand total of three Destreum Bearings, for instance.)
Now we're increasing the prices of the items that can be bought with Recognition, and decreasing the amount of Recog that drops. I'm sure you can see where that works even harder against the folks I mentioned earlier. Unless this is a purposeful attempt to lock us Filthy Casuals out of what passes for endgame here, something needs to be done - I recommend either reducing the Recog costs, or making Recognition account-bound rather than character-bound, and in either case make the extra items needed for certain gears a guaranteed drop from Rampages rather than making someone run the same Rampage twenty-three times to get one of the - what is it, ten? - drops they need for each gear.
Now, if this is intended to keep Filthy Casuals out of endgame and just alting a lot, then well done, this should do the trick. Might make some of them think twice about staying with the game, though. (Not me - I actually enjoy running through the game with different characters - but some.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I would add that Cryptic has a terrible track record of retroactively nerfing things after you've gone through the grind (and/or cash shop) to unlock them. Not a great incentive for players to invest in future grinds.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
and Examples of NOT FUN GRINDING: Lemuria Invansion and Sky Command, those things exist to waste your time and frustate you with the RNG
I liked that if I had an urge to play a 40, decked out in "lowly" SCR gear and T5 mods, even if I hadn't played that hero in some time, I could hop into just about anything I wanted to.
I liked that CO had not fallen to the church of the One True Main.
I would like to have used the present tense but I don't think I will like what our Delta Rising will bring.
Yes. Exactly..oh well, at least I got heroics on a good number of toons, and 2 pieces of legion on someone..
42 40s, LTSer.
42 40s, LTSer.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
"Vikorin and Bronze King were getting lonely."