OV's did NOT need to be any more powerful.

gradii · November 2015

Now that they break block and see through stealth, I've completely lost interest in Onslaught.

If you are going to give the OVs block break then their damage has to be lowered significantly. Considering the only reason they were given high damage was because of the blocking, removing this element is just going to infuriate players because it's just going to be strings of unfair one shots. Plain and simple. And outside of Defiance/Invuln builds few of them can survive those type of hits. So you just screwed over the non-tanks big time with block breaker, and really only the dodge builds will be at peak performance.

I will put it this way; there is a supreme difference between challenging and unfair and giving OVs block breakers with their ridiculous damage now falls into the category of unfair. You can kill blockers now. They either block break or have high damage that one shots even high health tanks. They shouldn't have both.

Quoting another player because she hit it on the head. this is unfair.

roughbearmattach · November 2015

I agree. I tested this on PTS, and OVs are brutal now.

There is a change planned on PTS, making Vile Challenge have a short cooldown. Still, without a reduction in damage, this is a bit too rough.

amyjia · November 2015

Well, I'm just glad that I have gotten the gear I was planning to get before these changes were made. I was thinking about maybe going after the action figures in the onslaught store and other action figures as well, but not really worth the hassle at this point, especially since they don't give in game benefits.

As far as block is concerned, I really don't think that every block should be treated the same since different blocks require different amounts of advantage point allotments. I made a thread about how I think investing a power slot and putting higher ranks into block should make it have higher resistances to being deactivated HERE

hasukurobi · November 2015

I have to say... OMG... So now all you need to be able to survive an OV is a defensive passive and knowledge of how to use it... or a Sniper Rifle... Or a Vehicle... Or a healer friend... Sort of see where I am going with this? Why do these OV's have to be sooo much weaker than the Rampage villains and the like? If they cannot break Block then getting a kill on a number of people is pretty much not going to happen, ever. So, I for one, feel this is a good thing. You get far more Guardian tokens easier than you can get Villain Tokens usually as well.

The see through stealth thing however is not as needed and should not be there outside of maybe Medusa for character reasons. I would also like to see Crippling Challenge and Challenging Strikes done TO the OV actually force a shift of target like their NPC counterparts though so that Tanks can do their job and take aggro from them most of the time. That is only fair.

kallethen · November 2015

On the flipside: I had quite doing OV because turtling and hard to kill players have made it extremely difficult to get Villain tokens. It's pretty easy getting Guardian tokens, you just need to at least tag the OV and it doesn't matter if you die (and you get tokens as the OV loses health, not just at death). As an OV, you need to kill heros (or Onslaught Targets which tear up your health too quickly IMO). How am I supposed to do that if the heros won't die?

draogn · November 2015

They should be figuring out how to make it fun for both sides so players will want to fight. There is nothing fun about getting one shot repeatedly because you don't have a super build.

Last time I fought a villain he died while I was recovering and being spawn camped at a respawn point, because I was 'out of range' (or something) and couldn't get back to him in time so all I got from it was the initial 10 tokens for doing a little damage to him. They didn't need to be made more annoying to fight. If people are blocking/turtling go around them and find someone who isn't or go fight one of the defenders.

championshewolf · November 2015

kallethen wrote: »

On the flipside: I had quite doing OV because turtling and hard to kill players have made it extremely difficult to get Villain tokens. It's pretty easy getting Guardian tokens, you just need to at least tag the OV and it doesn't matter if you die (and you get tokens as the OV loses health, not just at death). As an OV, you need to kill heros (or Onslaught Targets which tear up your health too quickly IMO). How am I supposed to do that if the heros won't die?

Turtles never really made things difficult they just required better planning to kill. The block breaker wasn't needed, of course, and honestly crippling challenge solution was suppose to be temporary until a better solution could be implemented. Still waiting 6 years later on that because I find Crippling Challenge to actually ruin PvP and strategic thinking as typical.

hasukurobi · November 2015

kallethen said:
On the flipside: I had quite doing OV because turtling and hard to kill players have made it extremely difficult to get Villain tokens. It's pretty easy getting Guardian tokens, you just need to at least tag the OV and it doesn't matter if you die (and you get tokens as the OV loses health, not just at death). As an OV, you need to kill heros (or Onslaught Targets which tear up your health too quickly IMO). How am I supposed to do that if the heros won't die?

You can actually get the Targets without losing too much health, on everyone but Gravitar anyway, if you do it right but the problem is that they are so Faaaaar apart that you will waste most of your time hunting them and get little for your effort. I have not been able to complete the daily on them alone. (Tried it twice and took advantage of the small cluster both times.)

championshewolf said:

Turtles never really made things difficult they just required better planning to kill. The block breaker wasn't needed, of course, and honestly crippling challenge solution was suppose to be temporary until a better solution could be implemented. Still waiting 6 years later on that because I find Crippling Challenge to actually ruin PvP and strategic thinking as typical.

Funny you say this when you have admitted in the past the inability to kill the Turtles and I thought you knew full well that you can easily build a player strong enough to survive anything a OV can dish out.

Typical situation with an observant Hero with a good build: You attack them and they block. You cannot break their block and you cannot stun them or even hurt them much. You try to trick them by attacking others and sending some AoE past them but you still advertise your attacks on Youtube so they knew long in advance to dodge or block those. You get really lucky and manage to catch them with lag or wear down their attention enough that you put a small bit of pain on them and they either A) Heal to full in an instant or b) Vanish only to return in a moment full again.

Because YOU get no tokens for hurting the Heroes you get diddly for all this effort even the one lucky shot you put on them. So basically you are wasting your time while they are getting Guardian Tokens all along.

Now if you have a group of easier to kill folks around then this is okay but many a time I was met with ONLY good tanks (because no one else wanted to play of course) where none of them were going to go down unless we could get four OV's or more on them at once. The ganging up of OV's thing still needs to not be a thing but only if they can actually kill the Heroes or like I have suggested they can get Tokens just for enduring the enemy attacks gaining more the more Heroes they are fighting at the moment but it does not count if you are no longer in-combat so running would be worthless and would ruin your streak thus earning you less than staying and fighting.

championshewolf · November 2015

hasukurobi wrote: »

Funny you say this when you have admitted in the past the inability to kill the Turtles and I thought you knew full well that you can easily build a player strong enough to survive anything a OV can dish out.

Actually my points of that was to ax specific turtle builds that use build loopholes that make their builds stronger and thus underplay other builds. Furthermore, in those points about turtling I made the point of always saying that new block breaking techniques were needed, not crippling challenge. And in fact I've stated that beating a turtle actually could be done with the OVs as I've beaten some of the toughest with both Grond and Medusa, and I know some who know how to use Gravitar to do incredible damage.

In fact my whole point has been that the OVs do too much damage as it stands now, but that's because of broken game mechanics such as specialist builds that produce super tanks as well as specific powers that go above and beyond to creating power gaps that required the OVs to be able to compete. Before their power boost I could stand around and I would never die without even blocking.

In short, as I always state, this is a systemic problem being created by broken powers that a vocal minority thinks are fine. It's funny considering the OV stuff should still be going on and fun for all, but because of broken builds and mechanics that are still not being addressed because of the vocal minority whining like 4 year old's that their toys might get broken, this circle jerk is going to continue. Until the imbalances are addressed just newer and newer broken things are gong to get added in breaking the power gulf even further in favor of the broken builds, powers and specializations.

jaazaniah1 · November 2015

This change won't matter to me. This is a comic book super hero game. In the source material even the toughest heroes can get taken down. If people want to play characters that never get temporarily knocked out of a fight they shouldn't be playing a super hero based game.

nepht · November 2015

Dazee I would advise you never to play Dark Souls as big bads there seem to utterly ruin my blocks :V

roughbearmattach · November 2015

jaazaniah1 said:
This change won't matter to me. This is a comic book super hero game. In the source material even the toughest heroes can get taken down. If people want to play characters that never get temporarily knocked out of a fight they shouldn't be playing a super hero based game.

For me, the concern is how this change affects whether or not players even engage in Onslaught. You don't get a chance to worry about how it is in the comics if the fight never happens in the first place.

wingedkagouti · November 2015

hasukurobi said:
You can actually get the Targets without losing too much health, on everyone but Gravitar anyway, if you do it right but the problem is that they are so Faaaaar apart that you will waste most of your time hunting them and get little for your effort. I have not been able to complete the daily on them alone. (Tried it twice and took advantage of the small cluster both times.)

Gravitar is probably the easiest to avoid taking noticable damage with. She may not kill instantly, but she's by far the safest of the three if you're limiting yourself to the Targets. All her attacks except Ripple outrange them (though Singularity may not be the best option). She can easily get the 50 daily tokens from Targets alone without taking a single hit from a Defender once you get a bit of experience with her, just don't bother with heroes trying to annoy you if they're of the tank variety.

Once I even helped one other player take down Mega-D from full after getting the 50 tokens and ended the fight before the timer was up.

beezeeze · November 2015

I suppose I'll just keep on dive bombing the OVs like always, I tend to run around as squishies most of the time anyway...

OVs need tokens to get the stuff they want, this makes it easier for the OVs to get tokens. You get guardian tokens regardless of how many times you are defeated. Suck in your pride, pick yourself up off the pavement, and get back in the fight!

pantagruel01 · November 2015

wingedkagouti said:
Gravitar is probably the easiest to avoid taking noticable damage with.

Gravitar probably requires the least practice, but it's quite easy with Medusa as well. Grond is more difficult because you want to take a controlled amount of damage, enough to unlock some of your higher powers, but once you do that defeating GTs becomes a complete non-challenge.

Unknown · November 2015

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Unknown · November 2015

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darqaura2 · November 2015

roughbearmattach said:

jaazaniah1 said:
This change won't matter to me. This is a comic book super hero game. In the source material even the toughest heroes can get taken down. If people want to play characters that never get temporarily knocked out of a fight they shouldn't be playing a super hero based game.
For me, the concern is how this change affects whether or not players even engage in Onslaught. You don't get a chance to worry about how it is in the comics if the fight never happens in the first place.

Pretty much this. If interest in Onslaught goes down any further it would have been a waste of some good work by the developers.

pantagruel01 · November 2015

gradii said:
I don't think you understand. EVEN THE TOUGHEST HEROES WERE ALREADY BEING TAKEN DOWN.

No they weren't. A high end tank block camping will never be taken down unless focus fired by multiple OVs.

In the end, the real problem is that there isn't much incentive to go on the offense. If there was, people would stop blocking all on their own.

championshewolf · November 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

I don't think you understand. EVEN THE TOUGHEST HEROES WERE ALREADY BEING TAKEN DOWN.
No they weren't. A high end tank block camping will never be taken down unless focus fired by multiple OVs.

In the end, the real problem is that there isn't much incentive to go on the offense. If there was, people would stop blocking all on their own.

Incorrect. I did it quite a few times. The problem is most people don't know how to properly use their powers and just spam them as soon as they are off of cooldown.

pantagruel01 · November 2015

championshewolf said:

Incorrect. I did it quite a few times.

A tank who actually attacks can be dropped. A high end tank who just sits there with block toggled on, not so much; you just don't have the 150-200k in spike damage needed.

sterga · November 2015

A villain can get 300 tokens in 15 minutes, no hero fighting required. It doesn't get much easier than that. Of course, it's also the far more boring option.

So, what qualifies as a super tank? My main was called a super tank which sets the bar pretty low seeing as she's not set up to even solo tank Grav or Frosty tank without miracle healers propping her up. The worst offenders always seemed to be Ebon Void users. Any significant background healing would probably make someone incredibly hard to kill as well. A blanket block nerf VS villains seems to ignore the real issues with certain power combos and overall power balances.

Something is wrong with the whole event if a character set up to be a Frosty tank or solo Grav is considered too tanky.

pantagruel01 · November 2015

sterga said:
So, what qualifies as a super tank?

Depends who's talking about it. There are a fair number of people who probably could be killed but are not worth the trouble, and then some who really can't be killed at all. For example, someone with Juggernaut, Wardicator looping, Ebon Void, and 15k hp or so, requires a spike of more than 200,000 raw damage, or a sustained damage output of around 6k dps for an extended period, and a single OV really can't manage that.

championshewolf · November 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

Incorrect. I did it quite a few times.
A tank who actually attacks can be dropped. A high end tank who just sits there with block toggled on, not so much; you just don't have the 150-200k in spike damage needed.

Again, incorrect. I've dropped blocking super tanks.

Unknown · November 2015

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pantagruel01 · November 2015

championshewolf said:

Again, incorrect. I've dropped blocking super tanks.

I suspect you have a different definition of super tank than I do.

roughbearmattach · November 2015

pantagruel01 said:

championshewolf said:

Again, incorrect. I've dropped blocking super tanks.
I suspect you have a different definition of super tank than I do.

There are a few truly amazing tanks out there that are nigh unbeatable by a single OV. Really just two or three toons.

Don't bother fighting them.

kallethen · November 2015

The root problem lies with how tokens are earned, IMO. It's designed so that OVs should be getting the bulk of their tokens by killing heroes. The Onslaught targets do provide tokens too, but you don't earn nearly as much as you could just pounding heroes. And once the OV is dead, that's it, game over.

Heroes also gain their tokens by fighting OVs, but not just killing. Heroes get tokens at the 1/3 and 2/3 marks on the OVs health, and a larger payout when the OVs is defeated. And if a hero dies? They can just get back up and still go at it. No penalty, no game over.

The issue is that players don't want to die, even if there's no penalty. Thus the tank-builds and constant blocking.

OVs need another way to score tokens. Perhaps a smaller amount given for every minute spent fighting at least one hero?

Unknown · November 2015

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nepht · November 2015

Why are people still losing their s**t about a mode where everyone walks away with tokens and theres no real winners or losers?

wingedkagouti · November 2015

Because someone else might get something before them.

xcelsior41 · November 2015

nepht said:
Why are people still losing their s**t about a mode where everyone walks away with tokens and theres no real winners or losers?

Because not every one feels they can participate fully because of constant AoE death spam moves.(Playing the OV, admittedly, it's a bit less aggravating to get tokens quickly than as a guardian.)

wingedkagouti said:
Because someone else might get something before them.

? Not really no. Actually, its because of the constant deaths. Players feel their time is wasted doing OV as guardians because of the constant death through OV gathering/spamming AoEs.

kamokami · November 2015

I'm having more fun fighting OVs now than before...because they actually show up. As opposed to when nobody thought they could earn their villain daily by fighting players.

It's not like they changed anything about the AOE spam - it's the same as before. You'll die repeatedly only if the OV comes after you specifically repeatedly. Other than that it's the same as before.

The problem is not that getting guardian tokens is hard - it's super easy - the problem is that they're worthless.

riverocean · November 2015

nepht wrote: »

Why are people still losing their s**t about a mode where everyone walks away with tokens and theres no real winners or losers?

Some people get so caught up in the emotions of it, they forget they are still getting tokens regardless. The constant death spam used to bug me - until I realized dying has no real penalty and you still get rewarded.

I don't think people have figured that out yet.

And like others have pointed out. The power imbalances in the game create an environment where the OV's have to be super OP just to be competitive. If people want to keep their stupidly overpowered builds - then be prepared for new challenges equal to those builds.

The down side being lower powered builds and AT's are going to get roflmo stomped.

draogn · November 2015

nepht said:
Why are people still losing their s**t about a mode where everyone walks away with tokens and theres no real winners or losers?

I don't really see people losing anything though if they were it might be because it isn't fun to be one shot over and over again.

pantagruel01 · November 2015

I think the biggest problem is Medusa (specifically, the ability to break block when applying 10 stacks mind spikes); Grond and Gravitar have a decent number of counters even without stealth and block spam. One possibility would be to give every OV a unique block breaker, instead of being all the same -- for example, Medusa's hold could break block when it ended.

biffsmackwell · November 2015

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but what about a single-target or small target-based-AoE block breaker with like a 10 or 15 second cooldown? That way everyone who needs to block a big AoE to not die can still do that, but if there's a pesky can't-be-hurt guy around, you nail him with the block breaker. The non-super-tanks can still play the same way and don't have to resort to hit-and-run or tag-and-hide tactics, and the unkillable can now be defeated.

xrazamax · November 2015

I'm fine with the Vile Challenge if OVs have the ability to be knocked or CC'd again. Give them a really high resistance to both, but the change really made the fighting blase and left Telepathy users out in the cold.

There is a way to make the OVs susceptible to holds via [REDACTED] and when they are, CC affects them for half a second, maybe 2 seconds tops if you are a CC build. I think that is pretty fair and would add some fun back into Onslaught.

OVs should also get really high perception, but giving them sight through stealth is again just removing fun game mechanics. The buff to OVs while in development, the removal of their ability to be knocked, stunned, rooted, or interrupted, plus the cooldown down reduction nerf has made Onslaught a zerg rush where heroes win by throwing their bodies at villains as quickly as possible. There needs to be more gameplay mechanics involved - Vile Challenge to boost OVs kill ability in exchange for heroes being once again able to CC OVs is plenty fair.

xrazamax · November 2015

pantagruel01 said:
I think the biggest problem is Medusa (specifically, the ability to break block when applying 10 stacks mind spikes); Grond and Gravitar have a decent number of counters even without stealth and block spam. One possibility would be to give every OV a unique block breaker, instead of being all the same -- for example, Medusa's hold could break block when it ended.

I completely agree. Gravitar's Reflective Burst would be good for this as it is pretty useless atm. Grond is fine as is I think.

kamokami · November 2015

Agreed that we should focus OV changes on Medusa. And not OVs in general.

nepht · November 2015

riverocean said:

Some people get so caught up in the emotions of it, they forget they are still getting tokens regardless. The constant death spam used to bug me - until I realized dying has no real penalty and you still get rewarded.

I don't think people have figured that out yet.

And like others have pointed out. The power imbalances in the game create an environment where the OV's have to be super OP just to be competitive. If people want to keep their stupidly overpowered builds - then be prepared for new challenges equal to those builds.

The down side being lower powered builds and AT's are going to get roflmo stomped.

I still have fun attacking OV's with my AT toons though, also shocked how well the Solider AT can do when played as a sniper class ^__^

Of course if the OV spots you your dead O_O"

nacito · November 2015

"And like others have pointed out. The power imbalances in the game create an environment where the OV's have to be super OP just to be competitive. If people want to keep their stupidly overpowered builds - then be prepared for new challenges equal to those builds."

OV problem in a nutshell

roughbearmattach · November 2015

Last two nights I've played: I played on OV once, found two other people who played as OV and sat in RenCen waiting to be beaten. When I played as the OV, I got my tokens fighting at UNTIL HQ, then advertised for heroes to come defeat me.

This is what Onslaught has become: just a polite exchange of OVs to collect tokens and eventually get those items.

There is no longer a mission, a challenge, any excitement, and not really much combat.

Alas.

Unknown · November 2015

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kamokami · November 2015

I have not experienced any significant difference in terms of deaths from before. I also have not been getting more tokens from player kills than before. Not sure about this "non stop deathspam" experience since nothing's changed unless the OV goes after you specifically, which they have no reason to given the cd on tokens earned from killing the same player.

I do see more OVs now than before and it makes completing the guardian daily easier.

agentnx5 · November 2015

So let me get this straight... They fix an obvious exploit-like mechanic of smoke grenade's and ice powers doing a perception debuff, and you Gradii creates a topic about how brokenly overpowered the BOSS LEVEL villians DESIGNED TO TAKE ON LOTS OF ENEMY PLAYERS is?

I'd laugh if I didn't know you all were being serious, or that Cryptic is foolish enough to believe this BS topic.

When vocal individuals who repeatedly come onto the forums to whine about things that are hard, yet because they cannot clearly articulate the parts that are genuinely root-cause problem and distinguish those from things which are just consequential human behaviors or are just different than what they've grown accustom to... we all suffer.

examples might include:

Cooldown Reduction nerf, which broken many builds that were not PVP-DPS-min-max (i.e.: my dedicated healer, Ynnea)
Dodge/Avoid nerf, because PvP tanks were broken, yet high dodge-avoid builds can still acheive extreme values; it just means the majority don't
Hold control-time and break-free mechanics nerfs, which was implemented to appease all the complaining about using Ego Storm's Malevolent Manifestation advantage in Zombie Apocalypse. Now all holds (unless you count stuns) are nerfed and it's rare anyone even gets the queue for Zombie Apocalypse to pop.

Cryptic does not know how to fine-tune nerf ladies & gents. They've shown that time and time again... They also don't seem to know how to un-nerf something once it was nerfed originally and since more comprehensively nerfed.

examples might include:

Backup! cooldowns (now we have the DPS spike brought back in order, but yet they still have a crazy-long cooldown)
Omega Destroid Stomp cooldown (too high of a spike damage people said, farming it is nerfed to oblivion)
Chimeral potion cooldown (yes really, at one time people were complaining on these very forums that this set of devices was brokenly OP, now I'm pretty sure most players don't even know what they are)
Endbringer's Grasp. Cooldown time increased, damage decreased. Why both? Sorcery finally had a non-sucky ultimate (Planar Rift anyone?)
IDF becoming a form/toggle. A really good idea that this was changed, but it was never buffed to make it on-par desirable compared to other toggle forms, even then it either extreme defense or no offense power. Would've been better to have just added it's damage subtraction/negation functionality to what happens when you upgrade a block power, all block powers (except fluidity, because of how different that one works) Then we'd be able to scale up AI damages for spike-damage hits for post-OnAlert Champions Online mechanics (i.e.: Therakiel's AoE attack, Teleiousaurus' Breath Weapon, Valerian's Soul Flay) And now we have a gear component that basically does exactly what IDF was doing long ago, only you have to grind like hell to get it... bleh...

I could keep listing out examples, that isn't an exhaustive list, but you get my idea I think, no?

naciiito said:
"And like others have pointed out. The power imbalances in the game create an environment where the OV's have to be super OP just to be competitive. If people want to keep their stupidly overpowered builds - then be prepared for new challenges equal to those builds."

I strongly disagree with this. Or that OV's are "overpowered".

Frankly they're a challenge, and what's annoying about them comes down to how OV's are about to kite around, out of range of attacks, which makes the fight tedious and boring at the same time.

naciiito said:
OV problem in a nutshell

What a bunch of overgeneralized, ignorant, and presumptious BS this statement is... *roll eyes&

And you all wonder why Cryptic makes sweeping nerfs that damage things that weren't intended to be nerfed with it? THIS LINE OF THINKING! Right here. Knock it off please.

Want to see a better example of problem with OV's? How about they can kite around like this:

https://youtu.be/ESnHB0qFInM

Boring much? This is btw, the same reason there was a "bubble" ring-out was created for PvP dueling, to prevent stuff like this. With all the changes in developers this game has had, I can't say I'm that surprised old lessons that were once learned have long since been forgotten (note: as I'm looking at this video I'm looking more at that anyone can do it, not who can do it. I could careless about who individually is being shown, but I do care about a broken mechanic)

xcelsior41 · November 2015

agentnx5 said:
So let me get this straight... They fix an obvious exploit-like mechanic of smoke grenade's and ice powers doing a perception debuff, and you Gradii creates a topic about how brokenly overpowered the BOSS LEVEL villians DESIGNED TO TAKE ON LOTS OF ENEMY PLAYERS is?

I'd laugh if I didn't know you all were being serious, or that Cryptic is foolish enough to believe this BS topic.

When vocal individuals who repeatedly come onto the forums to whine about things that are hard, yet because they cannot clearly articulate the parts that are genuinely root-cause problem and distinguish those from things which are just consequential human behaviors or are just different than what they've grown accustom to... we all suffer.

examples might include:
Cooldown Reduction nerf, which broken many builds that were not PVP-DPS-min-max (i.e.: my dedicated healer, Ynnea)
Dodge/Avoid nerf, because PvP tanks were broken, yet high dodge-avoid builds can still acheive extreme values; it just means the majority don't
Hold control-time and break-free mechanics nerfs, which was implemented to appease all the complaining about using Ego Storm's Malevolent Manifestation advantage in Zombie Apocalypse. Now all holds (unless you count stuns) are nerfed and it's rare anyone even gets the queue for Zombie Apocalypse to pop.
Cryptic does not know how to fine-tune nerf ladies & gents. They've shown that time and time again... They also don't seem to know how to un-nerf something once it was nerfed originally and since more comprehensively nerfed.

examples might include:
Backup! cooldowns (now we have the DPS spike brought back in order, but yet they still have a crazy-long cooldown)
Omega Destroid Stomp cooldown (too high of a spike damage people said, farming it is nerfed to oblivion)
Chimeral potion cooldown (yes really, at one time people were complaining on these very forums that this set of devices was brokenly OP, now I'm pretty sure most players don't even know what they are)
Endbringer's Grasp. Cooldown time increased, damage decreased. Why both? Sorcery finally had a non-sucky ultimate (Planar Rift anyone?)
IDF becoming a form/toggle. A really good idea that this was changed, but it was never buffed to make it on-par desirable compared to other toggle forms, even then it either extreme defense or no offense power. Would've been better to have just added it's damage subtraction/negation functionality to what happens when you upgrade a block power, all block powers (except fluidity, because of how different that one works) Then we'd be able to scale up AI damages for spike-damage hits for post-OnAlert Champions Online mechanics (i.e.: Therakiel's AoE attack, Teleiousaurus' Breath Weapon, Valerian's Soul Flay) And now we have a gear component that basically does exactly what IDF was doing long ago, only you have to grind like hell to get it... bleh...
I could keep listing out examples, that isn't an exhaustive list, but you get my idea I think, no?
naciiito said:
"And like others have pointed out. The power imbalances in the game create an environment where the OV's have to be super OP just to be competitive. If people want to keep their stupidly overpowered builds - then be prepared for new challenges equal to those builds."

I strongly disagree with this. Or that OV's are "overpowered".

Frankly they're a challenge, and what's annoying about them comes down to how OV's are about to kite around, out of range of attacks, which makes the fight tedious and boring at the same time.
naciiito said:
OV problem in a nutshell
What a bunch of overgeneralized, ignorant, and presumptious BS this statement is... *roll eyes&

And you all wonder why Cryptic makes sweeping nerfs that damage things that weren't intended to be nerfed with it? THIS LINE OF THINKING! Right here. Knock it off please.

Want to see a better example of problem with OV's? How about they can kite around like this:
https://youtu.be/ESnHB0qFInM

Boring much? This is btw, the same reason there was a "bubble" ring-out was created for PvP dueling, to prevent stuff like this. With all the changes in developers this game has had, I can't say I'm that surprised old lessons that were once learned have long since been forgotten (note: as I'm looking at this video I'm looking more at that anyone can do it, not who can do it. I could careless about who individually is being shown, but I do care about a broken mechanic)

Very true..Devs here have horrid track records with nerfs and almost no buffs.. Also, like you said, the INT Nerf(Cause that's what it is. Even if some(or most who supported it here) say it isn't). Ruined a lot of casual builds(almost all my builds -_-). And also the Dodge nerf, which ruined my Dual pistol DPS toon.(Thanks Cryptic! >:/)
How 'bout this? Cryptic. BUFF. That's right, buff, instead of nerf things to balance some things out.

nepht · November 2015

If you list your builds that Cryptic ruined somewhere on the forums peeps will be able to help you fix them ^__^

xcelsior41 · November 2015

nepht said:
If you list your builds that Cryptic ruined somewhere on the forums peeps will be able to help you fix them ^__^

They most likely could!

. But, the principle still stands. It didn't balance anything(still have those uber build mega deathcannon DPSers around.) It more or less just hurt us casuals.

nepht · November 2015

xcelsior41 said:

They most likely could! . But, the principle still stands. It didn't balance anything(still have those uber build mega deathcannon DPSers around.) It more or less just hurt us casuals.

True it is annoying when devs nerf things. It seems that in all MMOs it appears to be devs favored way to just p*** people off :V

xcelsior41 · November 2015

nepht said:

xcelsior41 said:

They most likely could! . But, the principle still stands. It didn't balance anything(still have those uber build mega deathcannon DPSers around.) It more or less just hurt us casuals.
True it is annoying when devs nerf things. It seems that in all MMOs it appears to be devs favored way to just p*** people off :V

Yep :P

OV's did NOT need to be any more powerful.

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