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Forums > Home› The Hero Games

Uhmmmm...

vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
in The Hero Games
So, is it me, or does this section have very little useful information? Seems like a pretty even mix of insults, egotism, goofballery, and moaning about the lack of balance/lack of players in PVP.

You know what helps attract new players? Guides.. i.e. folks in the know offering some helpful advice to anyone with a spark of interest. Not saying you should give up all yer supecret strats, but a few guidelines and pointers would be something.

I pity anyone trying to distill a few droplets of wisdom from cubic kilometers of drivel that is the hero games section.

Comments

  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    I actually began writing a multi-page guide with tips and basically anything you'd need to know in PvP a while back. I eventually stopped since I realized most people who would actually be interested in it wouldn't benefit much anyway since they already PvP themselves. Perhaps if enough people actually started showing interest in PvP on the forums I'd finish it, but this section gets so little traffic I don't find it to be worth the effort.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    Well... I for one would read your guides. I suspect the reason this section gets so little traffic is that it lacks substantive content.

    I've watched a couple of vids on your youtube page. Always nice to see some melee love!
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Just as purin said, it's hard to get the passion to really do it when you have no idea if anyone will even remotely benefit from it. I wanted to do a few video's talking about various parts of PvP but I just really can't get inspired enough... That and I don't even really have time for CO itself right now anyway.
    Post edited by mrhinkypunk on
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    vonqball said:

    So, is it me, or does this section have very little useful information? Seems like a pretty even mix of insults, egotism, goofballery, and moaning about the lack of balance/lack of players in PVP.

    You know what helps attract new players? Guides.. i.e. folks in the know offering some helpful advice to anyone with a spark of interest. Not saying you should give up all yer supecret strats, but a few guidelines and pointers would be something.

    I pity anyone trying to distill a few droplets of wisdom from cubic kilometers of drivel that is the hero games section.

    It is just you. This section has seen maybe 10 new posts in the last year, so I don't know wtf you're on about.
    Squishy DPS builds that can solo QWZ w/videos.
    My super cool CC build and how to use it.
  • oobtreeoobtree Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    vonqball said:

    So, is it me, or does this section have very little useful information? Seems like a pretty even mix of insults, egotism, goofballery, and moaning about the lack of balance/lack of players in PVP.

    You know what helps attract new players? Guides.. i.e. folks in the know offering some helpful advice to anyone with a spark of interest. Not saying you should give up all yer supecret strats, but a few guidelines and pointers would be something.

    I pity anyone trying to distill a few droplets of wisdom from cubic kilometers of drivel that is the hero games section.

    I can't tell if you are asking for help, or just trying to troll people who enjoy PvP.
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    Can you troll a forum that is essentially a series of people trolling one another? Is pointing out the fact that the entire thing is a trollfest a form of trolling?

    Also, I'd love some help. If, by help, you mean substantive info on pvp.

  • beezeezebeezeeze Posts: 927 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    The pvp community in CO thrives on trolling eachother... no wait that isn't right...


    What they truly love is to cannibalize their own corpse.

    Getting the help you desire will not be easy! Those willing to offer advice will have their ideas shot down by other pvpers and the whole thing will dissolve into a shouting match/trollfest! Breaking into PVP requires thick skin and keen observation skills...oh and a lot of patience.

    Anyway this area of the forum is pretty dead and I barely know what I'm talking about(some would say!) so ymmv.

  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    The thing is that it really depends on what you mean about "info on PvP". There are many things about the game and the engine for that matter which you don't really notice because the game usually isn't hard enough. Things such as use of LOS (line of sight) are stuff that people that don't PvP simply don't know much about other than if they are trying to bug some boss or something. I could probably write a short guide quickly putting down random stuff from my head to the forum if you really want... But generally what I would say may differ slightly from neiuso (purin)'s top tips. I don't know from what point you are coming from to try getting more into PvP. Like I'd have to know if you have a basic knowledge of how the meta builds work already and the 5 or so powers that are on like every build, plus the same specs everyone will almost always use. Then from that basic knowledge of the state of the game I'd then be able to go into detail about alternatives in making a PVP build or different play styles that can make you more interesting to play with/against and up your game.


    Edit: FYI if you want to achieve "xXxB34STxXx Status" there is a great steam guide here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=240932258 xD
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Well... it is hardly surprising that y'all would enjoy engaging in forum pvp.

    Nice to hear that that approaches vary somewhat. I thought you all just stuck con-8 mods into every possible orifice, then jumped around in circles until someone got too dizzy to continue.

    Yeah, noticed it was pretty dead in here. Thought I'd prod you zombies a little to see what you had ta say for yerselves.
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Hey thanks Mhp!

    I really don't know much. My brain is clean!

    Thanks for the link, will read.

    Edit: Lol.. very helpful.. thanks terribly
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    vonqball said:

    Hey thanks Mhp!

    I really don't know much. My brain is clean!

    Thanks for the link, will read.

    Haha don't take that one seriously, it's a joke guide although oddly it may prepare you for random things / complaints about PvP I suppose. ;)

    I could write some short thing when I find the time... Basically the way PvP is that most people try to be unkillable as their main thing, if you never die then you never lose. It's more about never losing than it is about getting the thrill of winning against all odds for most people. However although most people go for the CON stacked tanks spamming ER at each other there is variation for example purin with his RE bleed stacking build and playstyle or me with my heavy CC based playstyle. Some players are a lot more enjoyable to play against than others although I generally prefer team PvP.
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    Yeah, no danger of anyone taking that "guide" too seriously. Made me laugh though, so thanks anyway.

    Any help wold be appreciated. Most of the stuff I've dug up seems pretty outdated.

    Team battles are always more fun. More complex, more dynamic. Does it get easier to take down the tanky heroes with concentated fire? Or, do dedicated supports negate that?


  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    vonqball said:

    Yeah, no danger of anyone taking that "guide" too seriously. Made me laugh though, so thanks anyway.

    Any help wold be appreciated. Most of the stuff I've dug up seems pretty outdated.

    Team battles are always more fun. More complex, more dynamic. Does it get easier to take down the tanky heroes with concentated fire? Or, do dedicated supports negate that?

    With tanky people it ends up being really easy to take them down now with the CD nerf as long as you all burst at once especially if you have someone like me in your team with a 12 second stun time. If I catch someone with their AD and AO's on CD with that long of a stun they are dead no matter how tanky they are as long as we have decent DPS on them. Dedicated supports can help negate it although if you just focus the support in that kind of way with stuns or if I stun the healer after he uses an AO then stun the person we are bursting (I use sonic arrow so I can rotate stuns on various people at once) the healer wont be able to save the tank.

    Thing is most people build for 1v1 though, and as I said it's all about never losing for them. It's as if they feel like if you never lose then that makes you "the best player" but I prefer to see more action packed all to play for duels where people are having to use LOS and other tactics to out play their opponent. CO PvP is more about "out rotating" the opponent really, which means most people have atleast 1 AO and AD but a lot of the time will have 2 of each, when you factor their CD's in with powers such as smoke grenade it ends up being who manages to get their rotation in the right offensive position while the enemy doesn't have any defense up to stop it first. This usually just leads to two "tanks" bouncing around rotating hoping that their rotation is the one that allows their burst to get the kill. Hopefully you understood that chunk of text haha... Basically 1v1's end up being all about creating a window while in a team fight it is possible to burst a squishy down even if they are using something like MD.
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    vonqball said:

    Well... it is hardly surprising that y'all would enjoy engaging in forum pvp.

    Nice to hear that that approaches vary somewhat. I thought you all just stuck con-8 mods into every possible orifice, then jumped around in circles until someone got too dizzy to continue.

    Yeah, noticed it was pretty dead in here. Thought I'd prod you zombies a little to see what you had ta say for yerselves.

    The butthurt is strong with this one. It will be difficult to teach him, or rather, it will be difficult for him to learn.
    Squishy DPS builds that can solo QWZ w/videos.
    My super cool CC build and how to use it.
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    ^Lol... I was just teasing Spinny... looks like I touched a nerve in yer butt, srry bout dat. I literally don't have any experience with CO pvp, so my butt is currently un-kicked and pristine. I also play lots of pvp games, and I lose a fair bit. That is the reality of challenging competition, and part of the git gud process.

    Thanks for the clarification Mhp. So, I'm guessing CDR and burst damage are pretty valuable. Lol'd at 12 second stuns, that just seems cruel.







  • oobtreeoobtree Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=11&n=Average%20PvP%20Spike%20Attack%20Tank&d=1134W34QPMA477071007G00IL03J503F700AJ00EI05IG009Q04JE037T03380KJC01M50311Cd3T3B09gO

    Think of this as a study guide. Main attacks, passive and toggle are pretty much interchangeable with other popular PvP ones. Travel powers, actives and heals are pretty standard, as are the stats/specializations.

    *Edited the build in the link above
    Post edited by oobtree on
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    Thanks Oobtree. This build makes sense to me. Build up enrage w force geyser, then ego sleep to pin the target, pop ego surge and burst them down with UR and SR. Ebon Ruin is favored for the healing debuff I'm guessing. So, hit them with that if they survive your burst... or use it to poke to get some damage that sticks. Then you have your MD and a bunch of heals for the defensive side of things. Guessing Ascension is used defensively to break out of holds, boost yer heals and as an escape move.

    Noticed there is no block enhancer, and that people prefer to bounce around instead of just standing there blocking. Is this because of block-breakers? Or, does it just make you an easy target for knocks and such?
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    People don't normally take block enhancers in PvP-oriented builds for a few reasons. Like you said, there is the possibility of someone having Crippling Challenge, leaving you unable to block. Then you can still add more survivability to your build by adding short cooldown heals, more Active Defenses, etc, without worrying about something making them completely useless (i.e. Crippling Challenge and blocking). And also there normally isn't any room for a block replacer in PvP builds since it's normally best to grab other powers instead for the aforementioned reasons - plus the basic block we all have tends to get the job done as-is.

    That's not to say block replacers are useless however. Some people still add certain block replacers to their builds on occasion if they're building a super tank for example, normally taking Ebon Void with the Voracious Darkness advantage on most builds or Fluidity on LR builds. You'll also sometimes see Energy Shield w/ Laser Knight on melee builds just for that extra bit of defense. It just comes down to if you think you've already grabbed every single type of power you already need to decide if taking a block replacement is worth it, but most of the time I find that I won't have room in any builds I make unless I'm already making the build with the block in mind from the get-go.

    Also, on a side note, you might find the first few posts from this thread to have some useful information. Some of it might be slightly outdated since the CDR nerf, but most of it still applies. http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/252631/was-one-of-the-original-players-here-back-to-see-what-the-game-looks-like-new/p1
    Post edited by purin1 on
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • oobtreeoobtree Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    vonqball said:

    Thanks Oobtree. This build makes sense to me. Build up enrage w force geyser, then ego sleep to pin the target, pop ego surge and burst them down with UR and SR. Ebon Ruin is favored for the healing debuff I'm guessing. So, hit them with that if they survive your burst... or use it to poke to get some damage that sticks. Then you have your MD and a bunch of heals for the defensive side of things. Guessing Ascension is used defensively to break out of holds, boost yer heals and as an escape move.

    Pretty much. Ebon Ruin could be dropped for Unbreakable or Bionic Shielding if you wanted to just rely on the spike attacks to kill someone off. Would make for longer duels with shorter windows of opportunity, but add a lot more survivability to the build.
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    oobtree said:

    vonqball said:

    Thanks Oobtree. This build makes sense to me. Build up enrage w force geyser, then ego sleep to pin the target, pop ego surge and burst them down with UR and SR. Ebon Ruin is favored for the healing debuff I'm guessing. So, hit them with that if they survive your burst... or use it to poke to get some damage that sticks. Then you have your MD and a bunch of heals for the defensive side of things. Guessing Ascension is used defensively to break out of holds, boost yer heals and as an escape move.

    Pretty much. Ebon Ruin could be dropped for Unbreakable or Bionic Shielding if you wanted to just rely on the spike attacks to kill someone off. Would make for longer duels with shorter windows of opportunity, but add a lot more survivability to the build.
    Why would you use ego sleep with ER? It'd break as soon as the DOT hits surely. Also with the CD nerf I don't really think this build is truly entry level anymore unless it's literally what people are still using for some reason? Also why no elusive? (it's a flat damage reduction, always good) Not to mention the use of rush of the battle instead of mass destruction. <_<

    Vonq, no one uses a block replacer unless they just want to make a super tank in which case they use ebon void with advantage.

    Just to give you an idea of what my long stun eldritch blast build looks like: http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=11&amp;n=Eldritch - Sonic Arrow&amp;d=1436C634MSO237371007G00N10KJ503630JAJ00EI04FA00KD09JE019Q0334008E04M5030nOG3T3B0CAT (there are other options for some of the stuff but that gives the general idea of the build, you can see this build being played when I fairly recently made the build in the first video in my playlist of co vids: link in sig)

    Although I wouldn't call my build an "entry" build at all it just suits my playstyle, just wanted to give you an example of some variation.

    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    Okay some good info here, much appreciated. Missed that post Purin thanks for pointing it out. Although it did quickly devolve into a heated debate about mariokart... thanks for the trolls Spinny.. I respect your consistency. XD

    Mhp, the build you posted has both AoPM and PFF... is PFF supposed to be the force bubble?
  • oobtreeoobtree Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Don't listen to "mhp" he doesn't even play anymore. :disappointed: But he is correct that Ebon Ruin's DoT would ruin ego sleep. That's why ER's purpose in that build isn't to spammy spam spam. It's to possibly finish someone off after you Ego Sleep>Ego Surge>UR/SR. Rush of the Battle at R3 gets you 15% health returned to you even if you destroy the random objects around the map, like chairs, lamp posts, etc. With AoE attacks, that's a no-brainer. Although, I did mess up. I mean't to rank up Elusive, not Tenacious. My bad :smile:

    *Edit - I fixed the build that I link too in my previous post.
    Post edited by oobtree on
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    vonqball said:

    Okay some good info here, much appreciated. Missed that post Purin thanks for pointing it out. Although it did quickly devolve into a heated debate about mariokart... thanks for the trolls Spinny.. I respect your consistency. XD

    Mhp, the build you posted has both AoPM and PFF... is PFF supposed to be the force bubble?

    Oops, yeah sorry... Rushed over it fairly quickly. <_< And yeah I haven't really been playing for a few weeks now because of uni work, but as far as I know no changes have been made since I was last on so what I know stands. ;)
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • oobtreeoobtree Posts: 1,068 Arc User
    mrhinkypunk said:

    vonqball said:

    Okay some good info here, much appreciated. Missed that post Purin thanks for pointing it out. Although it did quickly devolve into a heated debate about mariokart... thanks for the trolls Spinny.. I respect your consistency. XD

    Mhp, the build you posted has both AoPM and PFF... is PFF supposed to be the force bubble?

    Oops, yeah sorry... Rushed over it fairly quickly. <_< And yeah I haven't really been playing for a few weeks now because of uni work, but as far as I know no changes have been made since I was last on so what I know stands. ;)</p>
    Yea, good job overly scrutinizing my example build while overlooking your own.
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    oobtree said:

    mrhinkypunk said:

    vonqball said:

    Okay some good info here, much appreciated. Missed that post Purin thanks for pointing it out. Although it did quickly devolve into a heated debate about mariokart... thanks for the trolls Spinny.. I respect your consistency. XD

    Mhp, the build you posted has both AoPM and PFF... is PFF supposed to be the force bubble?

    Oops, yeah sorry... Rushed over it fairly quickly. <_< And yeah I haven't really been playing for a few weeks now because of uni work, but as far as I know no changes have been made since I was last on so what I know stands. ;)</p>
    Yea, good job overly scrutinizing my example build while overlooking your own.
    My biggest fault was that I just built ontop of your build instead of resetting and starting again, the the sockiness of the build distracted me. :<
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    There's a guide for stronghold pvp that is still relevant mostly because it does not discuss builds, which can become outdated, but sticks with the underlying mechanics. We don't have similar guides for Bash or Duels, which are the predominant form of pvp these days.

    > > > > THERAKIELS TEMPLE GUIDE < < < < - beat the temple! (ﾉ･ｪ･)ﾉ

    PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶

    Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    kamokami said:

    There's a guide for stronghold pvp that is still relevant mostly because it does not discuss builds, which can become outdated, but sticks with the underlying mechanics. We don't have similar guides for Bash or Duels, which are the predominant form of pvp these days.

    Good point, that's one guide that could actually be helpful. Specifically you could look into the different types of people you may face in terms of "role" instead of specific build. For example the BASH tagger in comparison to the stealthy pick builds. I personally play the stealthy pick style in BASH on my normal builds so I could probably go into detail on times to go in (while their AD's are used up) and usage of LoS to run if you find yourself being focused.

    I play in a similar style in duels though duels end up being forced more constant fire so I have to run around the small space while they have AD's up which make them unkillable for my builds. The problem with duels in a competitive sense without thinking about balance is that different area's that just so happen to be chosen benefit various builds for example at hospital super jump can jump straight up to the upper platform while everyone else always uses superspeed or acrobatics so would have to either use ascension or teleport to get up there which ends up being kind of stupid. Superjump can do a similar thing in the center circle of ren cen where you can jump up to the roof above the costume people. Not that superjump is OP really just that duel tactics are not really fun in a competitive sense, not that BASH is either.
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    Yeah I see the idea of discussing builds right away sort of like deciding what to pack for a trip before knowing where you're going. Which is why I prefer guides to be about the principles at work as opposed to starting right off with "here use this".

    Defining these principles based on who you're fighting and where seems like a good idea. I'm happy to write one up if there's enough interest.
    > > > > THERAKIELS TEMPLE GUIDE < < < < - beat the temple! (ﾉ･ｪ･)ﾉ

    PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶

    Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Well.. I'd be interested. That primer on Stronghold was one of the few pieces of meaty information I could find on pvp. Not sure if an audience of one is enough to justify writing a guide tho.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    Write it up and mail it to the Devs, pointing out how nice it is and how NOBODY can do it because the queue is borked.​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
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  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    chaelk said:

    Write it up and mail it to the Devs, pointing out how nice it is and how NOBODY can do it because the queue is borked.​​

    They know about it but no idea if it will be easy to fix without just finding some kind of work around.
    My Vocaloid Songs

    A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    The name of this thread makes me think about Dane Cook.
    Squishy DPS builds that can solo QWZ w/videos.
    My super cool CC build and how to use it.
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